Devils Advocate 2014 edition

[Where'sWaldo]

Corners- Love and Taveze are good players but neither have shown to be lock down corners. I consider them solid but not elite. I really hope we allow Redmond to play 3/4 of the snaps if he has earned it in practice. We cannot afford to play older guys who are good when we have an NFL talent that is great behind them.

Safeties- Cox is the reason we lost the Auburn game last year and Hughes does not possess top end SEC talent. If Cox can get his head on straight and avoid mental mistakes I feel good about this position but if not we could struggle at safety. Market was a solid player last season and a great tackler but he was abused in coverage at times. He's a half step slow and lacks the ideal size you need for a safety.

Linebackers--Mckinney and Wells possess elite level talent but neither of them have translated that into outstanding production on the field. McKinney needs to be more physical at the point of contact and fight off blocks better than he has in the past. He should be a dominant force in the middle with his physical ability. Wells seems to disappear for quarters at a time and is suspect in open field tackling. We need him to be all over the field making plays this year. I'm excited about the talent we have at linebacker but our stars need to shine.

D Line--Chris Jones needs to be Nick Fairley esque this season for our defense to be top 3 in the SEC. We have great depth all around him but no other dominant players. Eulls, PJ Jones, and Smith are solid players but at best equal to what most other teams in the SEC have on the D line.

Tell me why I'm wrong.

[Rick Danko]

Because you just are***

[BeardoMSU]

It was actually Jiles who gave up that late TD to Auburn, not Cox....

[CadaverDawg]

Wells and McKinney haven't translated talent onto the field? Wut?

Cox was not "the reason we lost to Auburn"....and if he was...it was when he was playing corner. He's a safety now.

Smith could have left early last year at DE. I would say that is elite talent.

Sorry, but playing devil's advocate is different from just not being accurate.

[Dawg61]

Auburn loss was on Mullen not any one player. DM got super conservative in the 2nd half after getting the lead. I knew as soon as we gave the ball back over to them what the final outcome was going to be.

[UMCDawg16]

Pointless post unless you're a bear fan...

[GreenheadDawg]

Pointless post unless you're a bear fan...

Bingo. Hammer meet nail

1. Mullen already said Love and Calhoun may be better than Banks and Slay. That's saying something and Mullen doesn't sunshine pump. I think they have proven on the field that they are pretty damn good
2. I'm not even going to respond to the statement that BMac and Wells haven't done anything because that was extremely stupid
3. Go back and watch some of our games and tell me that we don't have an elite D-line

[Where'sWaldo]

It was actually Jiles who gave up that late TD to Auburn, not Cox....

I'm not referring to the last play of the game. He gave up several big plays at corner and had 2 or 3 missed assignments.

[defiantdog]

This is an awful breakdown. If you're going to breakdown flaws, at least choose the OL.

Our CB's were young last year. Cox played CB for the majority of the season (first season the SEC).

Our safeties were beyond injured and Market stepped up and nearly led the team in tackles.

I can't believe you even mentioned flaws at LB. We have extreme depth and experience there now. We have a 4 star (some say a 5 star) that may redshirt in Gerri Green. We've never been talented enough to do that.

Our DL has problems? PJ, C Jones, Adams, Eules, and Nick James can definitely hold there own there. That's called depth. And they also all have experience now.

You seriously compared us to last year when the majority of our players were first time starters.

Posts like this belong on SPS, not Elitedawgs.

[mic]

Corners- Love and Taveze are good players but neither have shown to be lock down corners. I consider them solid but not elite. I really hope we allow Redmond to play 3/4 of the snaps if he has earned it in practice. We cannot afford to play older guys who are good when we have an NFL talent that is great behind them.

Safeties- Cox is the reason we lost the Auburn game last year and Hughes does not possess top end SEC talent. If Cox can get his head on straight and avoid mental mistakes I feel good about this position but if not we could struggle at safety. Market was a solid player last season and a great tackler but he was abused in coverage at times. He's a half step slow and lacks the ideal size you need for a safety.

Linebackers--Mckinney and Wells possess elite level talent but neither of them have translated that into outstanding production on the field. McKinney needs to be more physical at the point of contact and fight off blocks better than he has in the past. He should be a dominant force in the middle with his physical ability. Wells seems to disappear for quarters at a time and is suspect in open field tackling. We need him to be all over the field making plays this year. I'm excited about the talent we have at linebacker but our stars need to shine.

D Line--Chris Jones needs to be Nick Fairley esque this season for our defense to be top 3 in the SEC. We have great depth all around him but no other dominant players. Eulls, PJ Jones, and Smith are solid players but at best equal to what most other teams in the SEC have on the D line.

Tell me why I'm wrong.

Ever how long it took you to come up with and type this was a complete waste of time ..

[Where'sWaldo]

[QUOTE=CadaverDawg;224818]Wells and McKinney haven't translated talent onto the field? Wut?--Look at their stats compared to studs we've had at linebacker in the past. I can't remember McKinney making any big plays in his career. I expect more from Wells and Bmac based on their talent.

Cox was not "the reason we lost to Auburn"....and if he was...it was when he was playing corner. He's a safety now.--Safety is the last line of defense and I prefer a super high IQ guy at that position. I hope Cox has learned the defense inside and out but this will be his first season at Safety.

Smith could have left early last year at DE. I would say that is elite talent---He would have been an undrafted free agent at best. He is a very good player but I can't say he'd for sure be starting at Bama or LSU.

I say all of these things because I have picked this team apart trying to hold back my enthusiasm. The things I'm saying are what is keeping me from jumping on board 100%. I'd love actual facts to help combat these fears but I watch as much MSU football as anyone and these are the things that have jumped out to me.

[Where'sWaldo]

This is an awful breakdown. If you're going to breakdown flaws, at least choose the OL.

Our CB's were young last year. Cox played CB for the majority of the season (first season the SEC)---So because they were young means they are now elite lock down corners?

Our safeties were beyond injured and Market stepped up and nearly led the team in tackles--What does that have to do with Cox and Hughes? Neither have proven much of anything at the safety position...

I can't believe you even mentioned flaws at LB. We have extreme depth and experience there now. We have a 4 star (some say a 5 star) that may redshirt in Gerri Green. We've never been talented enough to do that--I'm not concerned at linebacker but I want Bmac and Wells to dominate. They have not dominated at any point in there careers up to now. You could argue CJ was more disruptive as a freshman than Bmac has was last year. I remember Chris White dominating games and making stand out plays and that is what I expect from Bmac.

Our DL has problems? PJ, C Jones, Adams, Eules, and Nick James can definitely hold there own there. That's called depth. And they also all have experience now.---I never said they have problems. I'm talking about the difference in 9 wins or an SEC Championship and for that to happen CJ has to be an animal.

You seriously compared us to last year when the majority of our players were first time starters--Last year is all we can go by at this point unless you base your season prognostications on Bob Carskadon.

[Coach34]

Corners- Love and Taveze are good players but neither have shown to be lock down corners. I consider them solid but not elite. I really hope we allow Redmond to play 3/4 of the snaps if he has earned it in practice. We cannot afford to play older guys who are good when we have an NFL talent that is great behind them.

Safeties- Cox is the reason we lost the Auburn game last year and Hughes does not possess top end SEC talent. If Cox can get his head on straight and avoid mental mistakes I feel good about this position but if not we could struggle at safety. Market was a solid player last season and a great tackler but he was abused in coverage at times. He's a half step slow and lacks the ideal size you need for a safety.

Linebackers--Mckinney and Wells possess elite level talent but neither of them have translated that into outstanding production on the field. McKinney needs to be more physical at the point of contact and fight off blocks better than he has in the past. He should be a dominant force in the middle with his physical ability. Wells seems to disappear for quarters at a time and is suspect in open field tackling. We need him to be all over the field making plays this year. I'm excited about the talent we have at linebacker but our stars need to shine.

D Line--Chris Jones needs to be Nick Fairley esque this season for our defense to be top 3 in the SEC. We have great depth all around him but no other dominant players. Eulls, PJ Jones, and Smith are solid players but at best equal to what most other teams in the SEC have on the D line.

Tell me why I'm wrong.

Others have corrected you- but I will throw in:

Cox was a juco playing his 1st year in the SEC- at another position. He is now back to playing to his natural position- Safety.
Love and Calhoun are at worst the 3rd best CB tandem in the SEC. What didnt they lockdown the last 1/3 of the season when everybody got healthy?
Hughes at SS is like having a coach on the field

McKinney is outstanding- as is Wells. Nobody is perfect out there. And Bennie Brown is a full-blooded LB. He's a better ILB than McKinney

Smith is going to be drafted...Eulls and PJ are good SEC DT's- putting them with Jones makes us outstanding at DT

We are looking at 7 of our 11 starters very likely being drafted. That's a top tier D

[CadaverDawg]

[QUOTE=CadaverDawg;224818]Wells and McKinney haven't translated talent onto the field? Wut?--Look at their stats compared to studs we've had at linebacker in the past. I can't remember McKinney making any big plays in his career. I expect more from Wells and Bmac based on their talent.

Cox was not "the reason we lost to Auburn"....and if he was...it was when he was playing corner. He's a safety now.--Safety is the last line of defense and I prefer a super high IQ guy at that position. I hope Cox has learned the defense inside and out but this will be his first season at Safety.

Smith could have left early last year at DE. I would say that is elite talent---He would have been an undrafted free agent at best. He is a very good player but I can't say he'd for sure be starting at Bama or LSU.

I say all of these things because I have picked this team apart trying to hold back my enthusiasm. The things I'm saying are what is keeping me from jumping on board 100%. I'd love actual facts to help combat these fears but I watch as much MSU football as anyone and these are the things that have jumped out to me.

Your breakdown is getting worse every time you post. You don't remember McKinney making any big plays? Hughes is not SEC level? Cox doesn't have a high IQ? You're just making shit up. Try watching some games, man.

And please learn how to use the quote button so that I'm not replying to myself. I can play devils advocate with everything you've said and done in this thread.

[Where'sWaldo]

I think you are misunderstanding where I'm coming from with this thread. I really like our corners and think Cox has all the athleticism in the world to be a great safety. I think we have a very solid d line and fantastic linebackers. With all that said good does not get it done in this conference. We will have to be great in all aspects to win the West and everything I stated will have to happen for our dream season to come true.

edited to add: I would like to see where Mullen said Taveze and Love could be better than Baknks and Slay. I must have missed that and also I've seen nothing but "OMG I can't believe you said that" responses. No one is backing up their comments with facts.

[CadaverDawg]

I think you are misunderstanding where I'm coming from with this thread. I really like our corners and think Cox has all the athleticism in the world to be a great safety. I think we have a very solid d line and fantastic linebackers. With all that said good does not get it done in this conference. We will have to be great in all aspects to win the West and everything I stated will have to happen for our dream season to come true.

And I don't think you're understanding that everything you're asking for, is already happening.

[DudyDawg]

I think you are misunderstanding where I'm coming from with this thread. I really like our corners and think Cox has all the athleticism in the world to be a great safety. I think we have a very solid d line and fantastic linebackers. With all that said good does not get it done in this conference. We will have to be great in all aspects to win the West and everything I stated will have to happen for our dream season to come true.

edited to add: I would like to see where Mullen said Taveze and Love could be better than Baknks and Slay. I must have missed that and also I've seen nothing but "OMG I can't believe you said that" responses. No one is backing up their comments with facts.

No, you're just ignoring the facts. Facts like Cox playing out of position, and now being in his natural one. And the fact that's he's one hell of an athlete. Fact: Hughes is a leader and smart. There's a reason he went to Birmingham a few weeks ago. That's important to have at safety. Our DL will be in the top 4 in the SEC, easily. Look at teams like Auburn who dominated teams on the ground last year. Now look at how they ran against us. Now basically all of that unit is back for us. Also, there were a few people saying McKinney was a top two-three round pick LAST DRAFT. You're right tho, he hasn't done anything.

[smootness]

Linebackers--Mckinney and Wells possess elite level talent but neither of them have translated that into outstanding production on the field. McKinney needs to be more physical at the point of contact and fight off blocks better than he has in the past.

Can I get a WMD facepalm gif here? Good grief.

But my favorite part of the thread is that you said you prefer high IQ guys at safety yet criticized Hughes there, too.

If your point is that every player on our defense does not have prototypical NFL size, speed, and talent long with an unbelievably high football IQ, then I guess you have a point...

[DawgPoundtheRock]

Waldo,

After reading all of your posts, I have come to the conclusion that you must be one of the following:

1. Someone who knows little or nothing about football
2. A bear troll
3. An uninformed idiot, or
4. My god man, what the hell are you talking about

Run, Forrest, run.

Nothing personal.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Worst post evah

[State82]

I'm contotally fused by this thread.

[MabenMaroon]

Waldo's analysis doesn't take two very important and key aspects into consideration: we were in the first year of a new ( as in not "co" )DC, a new DB coach and a new DL coach ( although he had been on the staff at the beginning ). There was a tremendous difference in style and philosophy to the way we play defense, and as to be expected it took about 3/4's the season for our defense to become fully adjusted, fully bought in and start seeing the results. I think that what might be construed as weaknesses or mediocrity in our play last year were showing drastic signs of improvement at the end of the season. Now, they have had a full spring and will have had a second fall camp under the same coaching staff ( personnel wise ), folks are going to be blown away with the product they see on the field this year. Plus, one can add in, a reinvigorated interest in S&C with emphasis on speed and endurance.

[Coach34]

People also forget that we had a ton of defensive injuries- especially in the Secondary:

We lost Hughes in Game 1 for the season
JLove got hurt vs Auburn and struggled for the next 4-5 weeks to get healthy
Whitley tore his ACL and kept playing- made big plays but got exposed in coverage with that knee.
No Will Redmond the 1st 5 games

[Where'sWaldo]

bump

[defiantdog]

bump

Why are you bumping this? Redmond got 3/4 of the snaps like you asked and got burned.

[CadaverDawg]

bump

Just when I thought you couldn't look dumber in this thread, you bump it when nothing that happened yesterday makes you more accurate, and make yourself look even worse. Congrats.

[shoeless joe]

If you watch so much MSU football you should know that the game where cox struggled so much last year was the A&M game. But after reading your breakdown and rebuttles I'm not surprised you don't know that. There are some flaws with this team but you nailed 0% of them with your weak attempt at getting attention.