Oliver Black

[Ifyouonlyknew]

For anybody who's interested. Black has been cleared by the NCAA & will be on campus for the 1st day of the Fall semester Aug 18th. That will be all signees for the 2014 class eligible, on campus, & ready to go.

[Coach34]

Dawg61 will be relieved

[msstate7]

Turn around year is upon us

[trob115]

I think we are gonna make the NIT this year. We should be much improved depth wise as long as the injury bug stays away.

[Dawg61]

Dawg61 will be relieved

Give Ray a lifetime extension

[tcdog70]

Now if he can teach how to attack that tricky ass 1-3-1 defense. And get one of those height extenders for his smurf guards

[thf24]

Now if he can teach how to attack that tricky ass 1-3-1 defense. And get one of those height extenders for his smurf guards

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe Ray struggled against that 1-3-1 defense not because he doesn't know how to attack it, but due to the facts that he lacked consistent shooters and had exactly one player who could match up in the post (neither of which are a problem any longer)? You can put those roster deficiencies on him if you want to, but let's see how he does against the zone now that he actually has the means to exploit it.

[Dawg61]

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe Ray struggled against that 1-3-1 defense not because he doesn't know how to attack it, but due to the facts that he lacked consistent shooters and had exactly one player who could match up in the post (neither of which are a problem any longer)? You can put those roster deficiencies on him if you want to, but let's see how he does against the zone now that he actually has the means to exploit it.

Good point. Let's also not reward Ray for having a player he signed get qualified. Not saying you specifically are.

[tcdog70]

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe Ray struggled against that 1-3-1 defense not because he doesn't know how to attack it, but due to the facts that he lacked consistent shooters and had exactly one player who could match up in the post (neither of which are a problem any longer)? You can put those roster deficiencies on him if you want to, but let's see how he does against the zone now that he actually has the means to exploit it.


Isn't that what I just said?

[thf24]

Isn't that what I just said?

Maybe I'm wrong, and if so I apologize, but haven't you accused Ray before of not knowing how to break a 1-3-1 zone from a coaching standpoint?

[tcdog70]

If he knows how He is keeping it a secret. but now that He has finally recruited some players maybe he will Show us he really knows how.

[engie]

Maybe I'm wrong, and if so I apologize, but haven't you accused Ray before of not knowing how to break a 1-3-1 zone from a coaching standpoint?

You aren't wrong. And you explained it nicely. Just another thinly-veiled Ray bash in a thread that should be nothing but happiness that he got in...

[smootness]

Isn't that what I just said?

No. Your clear implication is that he doesn't know how, not that he didn't have the players to be able to do it.

[Dawg61]

Last time we saw it isn't helping your cause here. We had a double digit 13 point lead on Ole Miss and then 1-3-1 comes out and we lose by 12. A 25 point swing to our biggest rival. The team that had crackhead on it that got Ray to say "fu@k you" to him the previous time we played. So since Ray did this http://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/3853441/Rick-Ray-Dance.gif after beating Ole Miss we have since lost by 19 to Ole Miss in the regular season and then lost to them again by 12 after leading by 13 in the SEC tournament. This is just kinda a reminder that when you do this http://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/3853441/Rick-Ray-Dance.gif you better be ready for a fight next couple times you see that same team. We were not ready last two times we played Ole Miss.

[Dawg61]

You aren't wrong. And you explained it nicely. Just another thinly-veiled Ray bash in a thread that should be nothing but happiness that he got in...

Since when do we reward our coaches for getting 3* players that they signed to actually qualify to be able to play? Setting the bar a little low aren't we. HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO PLAY. Why would you sign a 3* player that isn't eligible?

[smootness]

No one is arguing we handled the 1-3-1 well. Some are saying we don't know how, others are saying we couldn't due to personnel. We're discussing WHY we couldn't counter it, because we all know exactly what you just posted.

[smootness]

Since when do we reward our coaches for getting 3* players that they signed to actually qualify to be able to play? Setting the bar a little low aren't we. HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO PLAY. Why would you sign a 3* player that isn't eligible?

Why did this thread ever have anything to do with Ray? No one mentioned him or even alluded to him until you and tcdog. Nobody rewarded him or praised him. They were just happy Black got in because Black is better than the absence of Black (woah). So there was no need for analysis; just all-around good news.

Unless you are rooting for Ray to fail, then you twist it into an argument over how it isn't good news and no one should be happy because the coach didn't do anything special...

[engie]

Why did this thread ever have anything to do with Ray? No one mentioned him or even alluded to him until you and tcdog. Nobody rewarded him or praised him. They were just happy Black got in because Black is better than the absence of Black (woah). So there was no need for analysis; just all-around good news.

Unless you are rooting for Ray to fail, then you twist it into an argument over how it isn't good news and no one should be happy because the coach didn't do anything special...

Exactly.

I'm beyond sick of this shit. Can always count on those two to ruin EVERY SINGLE basketball thread. Was not about Ray at all until they came in with axes to grind basically shitting on a player thread in order to inform everyone Ray still sucks..

[TheDogFather]

I think we are gonna make the NIT this year.

Boy we have come a long way.

[Dawg61]

Exactly.

I'm beyond sick of this shit. Can always count on those two to ruin EVERY SINGLE basketball thread. Was not about Ray at all until they came in with axes to grind basically shitting on a player thread in order to inform everyone Ray still sucks..

If y'all would stop trying to fluff the balls of a coach that has won 4 games and 5 games in the SEC every chance you can get I will stop having to come in and throw out tough love.

Because y'all are missing the other side to this. The side that I see. What happened with Quantrel Denson a player Ray signed? What happened the first year with Daniels and Ndoye? Two players that Ray signed. What happened with Applewhite his first season? A player Ray signed. What happened with Davis? A player Ray signed. So Black got qualified. GREAT HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE. Why does Ray keep signing question marks? I get signing a player like Newman that might be a question mark (not saying he is) but we are signing no name guys that aren't getting cleared till August going into year 3 still. Come on man we are a fu@king SEC team with pretty decent basketball tradition. Sign good players that aren't grade issues. Period.

[CadaverDawg]

Exactly.

I'm beyond sick of this shit. Can always count on those two to ruin EVERY SINGLE basketball thread. Was not about Ray at all until they came in with axes to grind basically shitting on a player thread in order to inform everyone Ray still sucks..

I agree that the thread shouldn't have gone down this road, but....


Dawg61 will be relieved

^This^ is why the thread took the turn it did.

This post has nothing to do with your comments, just pointing out that a good way to keep EVERY bball thread from turning out this way, is for people to quit instigating it. I agree, I'm sick of the Ray debate. It was funny for a while, but every thread turns out the same now.

[smootness]

If y'all would stop trying to fluff the balls of a coach that has won 4 games and 5 games in the SEC every chance you can get I will stop having to come in and throw out tough love.

Because y'all are missing the other side to this. The side that I see. What happened with Quantrel Denson a player Ray signed? What happened the first year with Daniels and Ndoye? Two players that Ray signed. What happened with Applewhite his first season? A player Ray signed. What happened with Davis? A player Ray signed. So Black got qualified. GREAT HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE. Why does Ray keep signing question marks? I get signing a player like Newman that might be a question mark (not saying he is) but we are signing no name guys that aren't getting cleared till August going into year 3 still. Come on man we are a fu@king SEC team with pretty decent basketball tradition. Sign good players that aren't grade issues. Period.

So feel free to post this in a 'Let's grade Rick Ray' thread or a 'Why do we go after questionable academic guys in basketball?' thread. But this thread was just about Oliver Black being cleared. Which is better than Oliver Black not being cleared, which were at this point the only two options in this situation. We got the better outcome. So that's better for us than the other option. That's all this thread was.

Every thread does not have to be a referendum on Ray. We know how you and tcdog feel, I promise. Who is going all-out in praise of Ray? The only things that have happened in the last couple of months in relation to basketball are us landing a really good recruit, Black qualifying, and us apparently getting some perceived momentum in the Newman sweepstakes. It's been all good news. It doesn't make Ray a genius, and doesn't mean we've forgotten that the last two years have stunk.

But it's good news, and we are State fans. We want us to succeed, so we like good news. We don't feel the need to make sure we take every small victory and trash it so we can remind ourselves that everything actually sucks.

It's like going into a town after a disaster and reminding everyone who is trying to rebuild and is happy that one of their pictures survived that, hey, the rest of their house is completely destroyed. It's pointless and makes you insufferable.

[Dawg61]

So feel free to post this in a 'Let's grade Rick Ray' thread or a 'Why do we go after questionable academic guys in basketball?' thread. But this thread was just about Oliver Black being cleared. Which is better than Oliver Black not being cleared, which were at this point the only two options in this situation. We got the better outcome. So that's better for us than the other option. That's all this thread was.

Every thread does not have to be a referendum on Ray. We know how you and tcdog feel, I promise. Who is going all-out in praise of Ray? The only things that have happened in the last couple of months in relation to basketball are us landing a really good recruit, Black qualifying, and us apparently getting some perceived momentum in the Newman sweepstakes. It's been all good news. It doesn't make Ray a genius, and doesn't mean we've forgotten that the last two years have stunk.

But it's good news, and we are State fans. We want us to succeed, so we like good news. We don't feel the need to make sure we take every small victory and trash it so we can remind ourselves that everything actually sucks.

It's like going into a town after a disaster and reminding everyone who is trying to rebuild and is happy that one of their pictures survived that, hey, the rest of their house is completely destroyed. It's pointless and makes you insufferable.

Good post. I think Cadaver nailed it.

[smootness]

^This^ is why the thread took the turn it did.

This post has nothing to do with your comments, just pointing out that a good way to keep EVERY bball thread from turning out this way, is for people to quit instigating it. I agree, I'm sick of the Ray debate. It was funny for a while, but every thread turns out the same now.

Your point is somewhat valid. But I think we all knew what was happening regardless of that post by C34.

And heck, his only point was that Dawg61 would be relieved because it means we'll have one more body, which a) is a valid point; and b) shouldn't make him come back with ridiculousness trying to trash Ray again.

It could have easily just been a 'Yes, I am' or, 'Good, at least we'll have 12'. But nope.

[tcdog70]

Engie, Engie, Engie--I just wish that one day i can also become a legend in my Mind. message board hero-

[tcdog70]

No. Your clear implication is that he doesn't know how, not that he didn't have the players to be able to do it.

i didn't mean to thinly veil anything. IMHO Ray sucks--that ain't too thin. I wish he could prove Me wrong--still waiting. Please give me an example of where it was Ray showed the World he could defeat a 1-3-1. I am hoping that the reason He hasn't shown Us so far is that he just doesn't have the players But now He has Black. I do feel sorry for Flat Top Fred, Ware, Chicken, Roq,and the other players and they are just not talented enough to learn how to play against a zone defense.

[thf24]

I do feel sorry for Flat Top Fred, Ware, Chicken, Roq,and the other players and they are just not talented enough to learn how to play against a zone defense.

Fred - prolonged shooting slump (which he seemed to be coming out of at the end of the season, shot around 40% from 3 in the final stretch)
Ware - our only legit post player, easily double teamed down low without much consequence
Chicken - slasher who's not effective against a zone without shooters around him
Roq - can't match up in the post and can't shoot, no help against a zone without shooters (see a pattern here?)

It had nothing to do with our individual players' talents, we were simply missing the necessary skill sets from others. Bottom line, you've got to have shooters to break any zone. We didn't last year, we do this year. It'll also help that opposing teams will have to play honest down low, because instead of having just one guy they could easily cover up, we'll have two, with two more behind them on the bench.

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

Only way Ray turns this ship around is if he gets Malik. We will be better win wise this year but no where near NIT level. Need a difference maker at PG not a 5'8 smurf who is made of glass.

[tcdog70]

Fred - prolonged shooting slump (which he seemed to be coming out of at the end of the season, shot around 40% from 3 in the final stretch)
Ware - our only legit post player, easily double teamed down low without much consequence
Chicken - slasher who's not effective against a zone without shooters around him
Roq - can't match up in the post and can't shoot, no help against a zone without shooters (see a pattern here?)

It had nothing to do with our individual players' talents, we were simply missing the necessary skill sets from others. Bottom line, you've got to have shooters to break any zone. We didn't last year, we do this year. It'll also help that opposing teams will have to play honest down low, because instead of having just one guy they could easily cover up, we'll have two, with two more behind them on the bench.

ISN'T TALENT AND SKILL SET THE SAME THING? AND WHOSE JOB IS IT TO GO OUT AND GET SOMEONE WHO CAN SHOOT?

[thf24]

ISN'T TALENT AND SKILL SET THE SAME THING? AND WHOSE JOB IS IT TO GO OUT AND GET SOMEONE WHO CAN SHOOT?

Is Craig Sword not talented despite not having a good jump shot in his skill set? No, talent and skill set are not the same thing. And I said earlier in the thread you can blame the roster/personnel deficiencies on Ray if you want to, no one can prove otherwise. But the point is he simply did not have the tools he needed to break a zone defense last year, whether he knew how or not. That doesn't mean we have bad players or prove that Ray is a bad coach.

[Dawg61]

Is Craig Sword not talented despite not having a good jump shot in his skill set? No, talent and skill set are not the same thing. And I said earlier in the thread you can blame the roster/personnel deficiencies on Ray if you want to, no one can prove otherwise. But the point is he simply did not have the tools he needed to break a zone defense last year, whether he knew how or not. That doesn't mean we have bad players or prove that Ray is a bad coach.

You guys keep talking about how little Ray had when he got here. So what. Look at all he had going for him as soon as he did get here. A MILLION DOLLAR GIG IN THE SOUTHEASTERN CONFERENCE WITH A FULL SLATE OF OPEN SCHOLARSHIPS TO GIVE TO ANYONE HE WANTS.

Any good coach with some stones would relish the opportunity to get basically a full roster of scholarships to give out to any and all players he could reign in at an SEC university. Competitive juices and cockiness should be flowing that they could build a seriously stacked roster. That opportunity would fire me up personally. I couldn't wait to offer the best in the brightest in every nook in cranny that I could think of. Overseas, Canada, South America, the entire South, forgotten about states with Jimmy Chitwood shooters at every high school, juco, NAIA, transfers, overlooked players, athletes that wanted to play two sports, on and on and on. No excuses should be made. Look at the wonderful opportunity that Rick Ray was and is given. How often does an SEC school hire a career assistant that has zero head coaching experience that isn't already an assistant for that school? NEVER. EVER. EVER. Get brash, get cocky, get confident because the school that hired you has a shit ton going for it. More going for it than 80% of other Division 1 jobs. Rick Ray struck gold.

[thf24]

You guys keep talking about how little Ray had when he got here. So what. Look at all he had going for him as soon as he did get here. A MILLION DOLLAR GIG IN THE SOUTHEASTERN CONFERENCE WITH A FULL SLATE OF OPEN SCHOLARSHIPS TO GIVE TO ANYONE HE WANTS.

Any good coach with some stones would relish the opportunity to get basically a full roster of scholarships to give out to any and all players he could reign in at an SEC university. Competitive juices and cockiness should be flowing that they could build a seriously stacked roster. That opportunity would fire me up personally. I couldn't wait to offer the best in the brightest in every nook in cranny that I could think of. Overseas, Canada, South America, the entire South, forgotten about states with Jimmy Chitwood shooters at every high school, juco, NAIA, transfers, overlooked players, athletes that wanted to play two sports, on and on and on. No excuses should be made. Look at the wonderful opportunity that Rick Ray was and is given. How often does an SEC school hire a career assistant that has zero head coaching experience that isn't already an assistant for that school? NEVER. EVER. EVER. Get brash, get cocky, get confident because the school that hired you has a shit ton going for it. More going for it than 80% of other Division 1 jobs. Rick Ray struck gold.

I'm not going to argue with any of that. I don't think it's quite as easy as you've always made it out to be, but I can't say with certainty that Ray shouldn't have been able to recruit better despite his circumstances either. It's all moot now, because Ray now has the players that a good coach should be able to do well with in the SEC. We'll see what happens.

[Dawg61]

It's all moot now, because Ray now has the players that a good coach should be able to do well with in the SEC. We'll see what happens.

Love these two sentences from you. That is right, it is all moot now. Put up or shut up time. 20 wins baby and I am excited to see if he can do it.

[Johnson85]

Any good coach with some stones would relish the opportunity to get basically a full roster of scholarships to give out to any and all players he could reign in at an SEC university. Competitive juices and cockiness should be flowing that they could build a seriously stacked roster. That opportunity would fire me up personally. I couldn't wait to offer the best in the brightest in every nook in cranny that I could think of. Overseas, Canada, South America, the entire South, forgotten about states with Jimmy Chitwood shooters at every high school, juco, NAIA, transfers, overlooked players, athletes that wanted to play two sports, on and on and on. No excuses should be made.

This is delusional. Coaches may be competitive, but they still usually are not looking to walk into dumpster fires. If recruiting and coaching SEC basketball were as easy as being brash and offering big time recruits, you wouldn't have so many SEC programs struggling right now. Ray hasn't set the world on fire, but this isn't a video game and you can't just snap your fingers to generate good recruits.

[Dawg61]

This is delusional. Coaches may be competitive, but they still usually are not looking to walk into dumpster fires. If recruiting and coaching SEC basketball were as easy as being brash and offering big time recruits, you wouldn't have so many SEC programs struggling right now. Ray hasn't set the world on fire, but this isn't a video game and you can't just snap your fingers to generate good recruits.

And your post is filled with the Woe Is Us poor Ol Miss State attitude. Again any coach that thinks they can coach and recruit would drool over this opportunity to be the HC in the SEC with fans that set the bar so low.

[smootness]

i didn't mean to thinly veil anything. IMHO Ray sucks--that ain't too thin. I wish he could prove Me wrong--still waiting. Please give me an example of where it was Ray showed the World he could defeat a 1-3-1. I am hoping that the reason He hasn't shown Us so far is that he just doesn't have the players But now He has Black. I do feel sorry for Flat Top Fred, Ware, Chicken, Roq,and the other players and they are just not talented enough to learn how to play against a zone defense.

Ok, so then no, you did not say that he just didn't have the players. You said he didn't know how.

[Coach34]

And your post is filled with the Woe Is Us poor Ol Miss State attitude. Again any coach that thinks they can coach and recruit would drool over this opportunity to be the HC in the SEC with fans that set the bar so low.

Yet 6 or 7 coaches turned us down before Ray accepted the job...wonder why?

[Dawg61]

Yet 6 or 7 coaches turned us down before Ray accepted the job...wonder why?How quickly 3 becomes 6 or 7. We had more wanting the job than we got turned down by and SS hired Ray after only 18 days. That means Ray sold himself as better than all the rest and SS believed it. Good. I want a coach that confident in himself. Let's see it now in results. No more excuses.

[Schultzy]

Boy we have come a long way.

He's had a loooong way to come, that's what you anti Ray guys are ignoring. He's trying to come back from the worst hoops situation in modern basketball history.

I challenge you to name for me one new hire in major college basketball who had a higher hill to climb than Rick Ray has.

[Dawg61]

He's had a loooong way to come, that's what you anti Ray guys are ignoring. He's trying to come back from the worst hoops situation in modern basketball history.

I challenge you to name for me one new hire in major college basketball who had a higher hill to climb than Rick Ray has.

Scott Drew, Baylor, overcame MURDER

[Schultzy]

Scott Drew, Baylor, overcame MURDER

How long did that take to recover from?

[Political Hack]

the most common way to attack a 1-3-1 is to start by havig 2 guards work either side of the defender at the top of the key. Almost every offense uses that against a 1-3-1. Ray doesn't. Maybe he thinks we match up better otherwise, and that's a plausible explanation given out lack of shooting ability, but I think everyone can admit what we were doing did not work.

[Offshore Dawg]

No one is arguing we handled the 1-3-1 well. Some are saying we don't know how, others are saying we couldn't due to personnel. We're discussing WHY we couldn't counter it, because we all know exactly what you just posted.

This should be the year Ray has enough players to field a full team, yes or no.

[Homedawg]

Scott Drew, Baylor, overcame MURDER

Yep, he did. In his 5th year he had a winning record. In his 6th he went 5-11 in the big 12. Nice example to completely, disprove your point you've been making forever.

[engie]

This should be the year Ray has enough players to field a full team, yes or no.

Yes.

Where has anyone said that we can't judge Ray based on results this year? Time for the rubber to meet the road for sure...

[engie]

the most common way to attack a 1-3-1 is to start by havig 2 guards work either side of the defender at the top of the key. Almost every offense uses that against a 1-3-1. Ray doesn't. Maybe he thinks we match up better otherwise, and that's a plausible explanation given out lack of shooting ability, but I think everyone can admit what we were doing did not work.

Bottom line is the zone becomes easy if you've got guys that can create and shoot 3's. Especially when you've got 4's and 5's that can exploit the matchups inside and force the to cheat back for double teams.

last year, the 1-3-1 was extended because we played much of the time without a backup 5 on the roster or the floor. When there's no 5 that can beat a single or double team, you can cheat out against it and take away the setup threes.

[thf24]

Where has anyone said that we can't judge Ray based on results this year? Time for the rubber to meet the road for sure...

Yeah, this has been pretty confusing to me. I've noticed several of us have been congratulated lately for saying this as if we've come around from a more radical viewpoint, but I can't think of a single pro-patience poster who's ever said otherwise.

[engie]

Yeah, this has been pretty confusing to me. I've noticed several of us have been congratulated lately for saying this as if we've come around from a more radical viewpoint, but I can't think of a single pro-patience poster who's ever said otherwise.

Yeah -- I think that's the foothold of the radical viewpoint. It has to take other's opinions out of context and try to skew what those opinions actually are in order to try to justify their own outlandish ones. Hence the constant "pro-Ray" propaganda being pushed by those that are making basketball indiscussable -- when no outlandish "pro-Ray" position actually exists as a ying to their "anti-Ray" yang. Everyone someone asks them to link the posts projecting this stance, they just ignore the question and keep chugging along.

[Coach34]

Exactly- there's not a swinging dick that wears maroon that doesn't expect more out of Ray this season and we better get it or he will start catching shit from those of us that saw the situation realistically

[Dawg61]

Yep, he did. In his 5th year he had a winning record. In his 6th he went 5-11 in the big 12. Nice example to completely, disprove your point you've been making forever.

Quit being a jackass. The question asked was name a coach that stepped into a worse situation. I did. Baylor had crippling sanctions placed on them including not being allowed to play half a season.

[Coach34]

Quit being a jackass. The question asked was name a coach that stepped into a worse situation. I did. Baylor had crippling sanctions placed on them including not being allowed to play half a season.

Mans what is hilarious to all of us is that a murder within the basketball program is literally the only worse situation you can come up with. That should tell you something. It probably won't- but it should

[C222]

Mans what is hilarious to all of us is that a murder within the basketball program is literally the only worse situation you can come up with. That should tell you something. It probably won't- but it should

Haha...I thought the same exact thing.

[Dawg61]

Mans what is hilarious to all of us is that a murder within the basketball program is literally the only worse situation you can come up with. That should tell you something. It probably won't- but it should

In my opinion Tennessee right now is just as bad as MSU 2012. Chime in on a Sweet16 though. What's hilarious to me is y'all keep saying how tough a job it is for Ray so people will feel sorry for him and lower his bar so low dead people 6 feet under would be above it.

[Coach34]

In my opinion Tennessee right now is just as bad as MSU 2012. Chime in on a Sweet16 though. What's hilarious to me is y'all keep saying how tough a job it is for Ray so people will feel sorry for him and lower his bar so low dead people 6 feet under would be above it.

Ok- I have to ask this so I can laugh at the answer- how in the hell is Tenn 2014 as bad as State was in 2012?

and you don't even have to explain the "dumpster fire" vs Sweet 16 part- because no moron can duped into believing that. So start after that please

[notsofarawaydawg]

If y'all would stop trying to fluff the balls of a coach that has won 4 games and 5 games in the SEC every chance you can get I will stop having to come in and throw out tough love.

Because y'all are missing the other side to this. The side that I see. What happened with Quantrel Denson a player Ray signed? What happened the first year with Daniels and Ndoye? Two players that Ray signed. What happened with Applewhite his first season? A player Ray signed. What happened with Davis? A player Ray signed. So Black got qualified. GREAT HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE. Why does Ray keep signing question marks? I get signing a player like Newman that might be a question mark (not saying he is) but we are signing no name guys that aren't getting cleared till August going into year 3 still. Come on man we are a fu@king SEC team with pretty decent basketball tradition. Sign good players that aren't grade issues. Period.


If you would get your head out of Rick Stansbury's ass for a second you could see that the train wreck of a program did nothing but embarrass the university and fans the last couple of years. He personally is responsible for the sharks that took his legs off during those two seasons and he certainly needed to move on to another job because he accomplished NOTHING with all the talent he had. Stop bashing Ray because you don't like what he looks like. That's been a craw in your crotch ever since the man was hired. Get over it you bumbling old man.

[Brad Stevens]

For a while, 61 thought I just picked on him. I've been intentionally quiet in basketball threads the last few weeks, but he somehow STILL is at odds with everyone in every thread. Strange**

[Dawg61]

If you would get your head out of Rick Stansbury's ass for a second you could see that the train wreck of a program did nothing but embarrass the university and fans the last couple of years. He personally is responsible for the sharks that took his legs off during those two seasons and he certainly needed to move on to another job because he accomplished NOTHING with all the talent he had. Stop bashing Ray because you don't like what he looks like. That's been a craw in your crotch ever since the man was hired. Get over it you bumbling old man.

For the seven billionth time I wanted Stansbury gone too. What I don't want is to be lied to and to have the expectations lowered so easily that anyone can meet them. I don't dislike Ray so you can shove your allegations of racism or whatever you were implying straight up your ass.

[Dawg61]

Ok- I have to ask this so I can laugh at the answer- how in the hell is Tenn 2014 as bad as State was in 2012?

and you don't even have to explain the "dumpster fire" vs Sweet 16 part- because no moron can duped into believing that. So start after that please

Is that your way of trying to have a conversation with me about it? Try better if you actually want to talk about it.

[thf24]

In my opinion Tennessee right now is just as bad as MSU 2012. Chime in on a Sweet16 though. What's hilarious to me is y'all keep saying how tough a job it is for Ray so people will feel sorry for him and lower his bar so low dead people 6 feet under would be above it.

Tennessee right now is only as bad us 2012 if you take the two situations at face value an outsider's perspective. Likely only a few people know the true extent of the state of our program internally in spring/summer of 2012 (myself definitely not included), but if the rumors are even halfway accurate, Ray had it significantly worse than Tyndall does now. All Tennessee was really left with from a perception standpoint was a bad taste from the way the boosters supposedly treated Martin. No need to rehash what was going on with us, but suffice it to say we were far more toxic than that.

[DudyDawg]

I wish one thread about what's going on in basketball (new player got in) would stay on that topic instead of this bullshit. Go make a rick ray thread and talk. Leave that shit somewhere else. It's unbearable

[Dawg61]

Tennessee right now is only as bad us 2012 if you take the two situations at face value an outsider's perspective.

So what would you call a 17 year old high school basketball players perspective when he looks at MSU in 2012 or Tennessee today? He isn't digging into the cracks of the walls to see how many boosters are on board with the new coach. He cares about shoes, clothes, pu5sy, basketball, music, xbox, money, food, partying. That's it.

[Dawg61]

I wish one thread about what's going on in basketball (new player got in) would stay on that topic instead of this bullshit. Go make a rick ray thread and talk. Leave that shit somewhere else. It's unbearable

And yet these threads turn into 10 page ones. Every week. That should tell you something.

[DudyDawg]

And yet these threads turn into 10 page ones. Every week. That should tell you something.

And yet, it's usually just you arguing with others. It's the same people over and over. That's why I said go make a Rick Ray thread (you love to talk about him) and keep it there.

[Dawg61]

And yet, it's usually just you arguing with others. It's the same people over and over. That's why I said go make a Rick Ray thread (you love to talk about him) and keep it there.

This is our Rick Ray thread. Oliver Black being qualified is one sentence. He's supposed to be qualified. It isn't really newsworthy imo.

[DudyDawg]

When we sign recruits in other sports, we talk about how they will do/play here. We don't talk about the coach like we want him fired. You consistently ruin basketball threads. How often do you have to hear it to believe it.

That's why I'm saying, if you want to talk Ray, make a Ray thread. Not a thread on a player getting into school.

[Dawg61]

When we sign recruits in other sports, we talk about how they will do/play here. We don't talk about the coach like we want him fired. You consistently ruin basketball threads. How often do you have to hear it to believe it.

That's why I'm saying, if you want to talk Ray, make a Ray thread. Not a thread on a player getting into school.

How about you talk basketball instead of worrying about my posting habits. This is the basketball thread. It's just called Oliver Black this week.

[DudyDawg]

It literally is impossible to have an actual conversation about the sport of basketball at Mississippi State University because it turns into this.

[Homedawg]

Quit being a jackass. The question asked was name a coach that stepped into a worse situation. I did. Baylor had crippling sanctions placed on them including not being allowed to play half a season.

Quit being a jackass? I just point out that it took him 7 years basically to build a program. How can it take that long?** all he had to do was have a full roster and things would have been just swell.***

[Homedawg]

This is our Rick Ray thread. Oliver Black being qualified is one sentence. He's supposed to be qualified. It isn't really newsworthy imo.

Except the fact you spent a month or more bitching like a woman that he wasn't eligible and might not be for the season. Now that he is, you say, well he's suppose to be.

[Dawg61]

It literally is impossible to have an actual conversation about the sport of basketball at Mississippi State University because it turns into this.

C34 had 30,000 posts about getting Stansbury fired. 30,000. That is no exaggeration. Years and years and years of harping how high our standards should be at MSU, 8 years worth to be exact. I agreed with him. Then we fire Stansbury and all of a sudden overnight we no longer have those high expectations for our basketball team/coach. That's why you see me constantly talking about basketball. As I've said before you'll see me quiet down about basketball when our expectations and what we demand of our coach are at least equal to what we all wanted so badly to get rid of. Want Stansbury fired? Fine I will go along with you on that. Want to lower the bar to ridiculously low standards for the next guy? No I can not stand behind you on that.

[Coach34]

Expectations change with where your program is. Stands wrecked and tore down everything he had built. You don't overcome that in a year or two.

Expectations are higher for Ray this year- from everyone. As they should be.

[DawgInMemphis]

C34 had 30,000 posts about getting Stansbury fired. 30,000. That is no exaggeration.

That is the very definition of an exaggeration. His post count is around 10,000.

[Dawg61]

Stands wrecked and tore down everything he had built. You don't overcome that in a year or two.

No he didn't. Not at all. When Stansbury was fired Moultrie, Sidney, Hood, Steele, Lewis, Zierdaks, SSmith were all on the roster. Even Deville Smith the starting PG for UNLV was too. Josh Gray was still committed. That is a fact. Then any blame gets severed right there. We then enter a new "blame zone" and that mostly goes to nobody because there's always turnover during a transition. I personally put a lot of blame on Stricklin here though. Just being honest.

[Dawg61]

That is the very definition of an exaggeration. His post count is around 10,000.

Haha this made me laugh. Anyone else care to explain to DawgInMemphis what I am referring to?

[Dawg61]

Except the fact you spent a month or more bitching like a woman that he wasn't eligible and might not be for the season. Now that he is, you say, well he's suppose to be.

He is supposed to be. Is he not? Why are we signing low rated players that don't get cleared till August? One year removed from having two lower rated players we signed not get cleared at all. Shouldn't that concern you some? Especially since our biggest issue has been our lack of a bench. But luckily for us Ray has saved an extra scholarship every single year he has been here. We keep signing low rated players that either don't get cleared or just barely get cleared. That concerns the fu@k out of me.

[Homedawg]

No he didn't. Not at all. When Stansbury was fired Moultrie, Sidney, Hood, Steele, Lewis, Zierdaks, SSmith were all on the roster. Even Deville Smith the starting PG for UNLV was too. Josh Gray was still committed. That is a fact. Then any blame gets severed right there. We then enter a new "blame zone" and that mostly goes to nobody because there's always turnover during a transition. I personally put a lot of blame on Stricklin here though. Just being honest.

This is great. They were all on the roster when he was let go. Sooooo, if Stan's weren't fired, Sid and his fat ass would have come back, moultrie wouldn't have turned pro, deville smith would have been back? Wow. Now that's amazing. And stupid. Truly.

[Coach34]

No he didn't. Not at all. When Stansbury was fired Moultrie, Sidney, Hood, Steele, Lewis, Zierdaks, SSmith were all on the roster. Even Deville Smith the starting PG for UNLV was too. Josh Gray was still committed. That is a fact. Then any blame gets severed right there. We then enter a new "blame zone" and that mostly goes to nobody because there's always turnover during a transition. I personally put a lot of blame on Stricklin here though. Just being honest.

Moultrie was already out the door
Deville and Sidney were told not to come back before Ray was hired
Hood was already looking to leave
Ziedakis and Smith were cut per University policy- that wasn't Ray
Steele and Lewis stayed hurt

There is your facts

[Dawg61]

This is great. They were all on the roster when he was let go. Sooooo, if Stan's weren't fired, Sid and his fat ass would have come back, moultrie wouldn't have turned pro, deville smith would have been back? Wow. Now that's amazing. And stupid. Truly.

You can't blame someone for shit that happens after they get fired. Just how it is. Do most of those things still happen if he isn't fired? Yea probably so but if he's not fired then he does still have the opportunity to change them from ever happening. Some of them needed to happen though anyways. Sidney did not need to come back. He was the ultimate downfall for Stansbury. MSU just couldn't stomach watching his fat ass pout on the bench and not hustle at all and have Jimmy Dykes doing 5 minute diagrams pointing out how lazy he was. That was the end for Bury. Bury probably still loves "Shug" though. Wonder if they did P90X this year together again?

[Dawg61]

Moultrie was already out the door
Deville and Sidney were told not to come back before Ray was hired
Hood was already looking to leave
Ziedakis and Smith were cut per University policy- that wasn't Ray
Steele and Lewis stayed hurt

There is your facts

On the morning that Stansbury got fired every single one of those players was on the roster. That is a fact. Blaming Stansbury after he gets fired for those players being gone isn't exactly right or fair.

[engie]

You can't blame someone for shit that happens after they get fired. Just how it is.
But you can blame the next guy for things that happen before he was hired right? #logic

[Homedawg]

On the morning that Stansbury got fired every single one of those players were on the roster. That is a fact. Blaming Stansbury after he gets fired for those players being gone isn't exactly right or fair.

You are delusional beyond belief......

[Coach34]

On the morning that Stansbury got fired every single one of those players were on the roster. That is a fact. Blaming Stansbury after he gets fired for those players being gone isn't exactly right or fair.

No they weren't. Sidney and Deville were told they had no place at Miss State anymore. Stands had been given that ultimatum from the AD's office- and part of the reason he was let go. aGAIN- Stands wasn't "retired" over his wins and losses. Holding players accountable for failed drug tests was another reason Stands was "retired". And why Smirh and Zedakis were sent packing- had nothing to do with Ray- it was handled from above

[Coach34]

That's the thing- just like Moultrie Knee and then Sidney being suspended for 3 games- that's not the penalty for a 1st offense failed drug test. We are talking multiple tests and Stands fighting to keep them on the court using his pull to do it

[Dawg61]

That's the thing- just like Moultrie Knee and then Sidney being suspended for 3 games- that's not the penalty for a 1st offense failed drug test. We are talking multiple tests and Stands fighting to keep them on the court using his pull to do it

I'm not arguing that Stansbury shouldn't of been fired. He should of been and was. I am however arguing that we as a fanbase shouldn't lower our expectations and standards to ridiculously low levels. Levels that haven't been this low for twenty some years. Ray had very high expectations of himself when he knocked Stricklin's socks off right? Hold him to those expectations that he sold our AD on or where they that excuses would be made at every corner and continuously blaming the previous coach for failed present day events would make it acceptable to drop from the 4th winningest SEC program to one that doesn't even get CBI invites. Not for me. 20 wins. Get it done.

[Coach34]

I agree that we should have high- but realistic standards. And where this program was the last 2 years- it wasn't realistic that they would compete in the top half of the SEC. Now that Ray has had 2 years to rebuild- expectations raise. Nobody argues that point. Nobody

[Brad Stevens]

I'm very glad Black got into school. Now at our 4/5 spots, we can shuffle around Daniels, Ware, Johnson, Ndoye, Zuppardo and Black. That's 3-deep at each position where we literally had 3 players rotating at those two positions the last two years. I'm glad to have the luxury to bring in a big body for a foul or two and give our starters a blow. This will make a difference. **Steering this thread back on topic**

[Coach34]

I hope we redshirt Black myself. You don't need 6 guys inside

[Brad Stevens]

I agree. But if crazy injuries happen (like we have seen in recent years), we have the luxury of using a young big man rather than moving a walk-on 2 guard to the 4 spot. As all have stated, our roster is in better shape and I am glad for that.

[Dawg61]

I'm very glad Black got into school. Now at our 4/5 spots, we can shuffle around Daniels, Ware, Johnson, Ndoye, Zuppardo and Black. That's 3-deep at each position where we literally had 3 players rotating at those two positions the last two years. I'm glad to have the luxury to bring in a big body for a foul or two and give our starters a blow. This will make a difference. **Steering this thread back on topic**

Improved depth can only help. I wonder if Staley will play and where he fits in also? I am assuming Bear Wilson is done with basketball at MSU? Wish he wasn't. I know that's not a popular choice around here but he has beefed up more and he's already a gifted rebounder plus his twitter background is him winning Mr. Basketball in Alabama so he must still have some passion for basketball I would assume. He has a very bright future as a WR though so I certainly don't want to jeopardize that.

[Coach34]

Staley is slated to hoop it up. Wilson is done

Staley is a legit player- whereas Wilson was just an athlete playing

[Dawg61]

Staley is slated to hoop it up. Wilson is done

Staley is a legit player- whereas Wilson was just an athlete playing

Well so far so good with the minimal roster casualties from last year to this year. Long way still to go till game 1 tip but besides Davis (which wasn't much of a loss) Ray has been able to keep the roster intact and add another player to it in Zuppardo. He has all of his signees now able to practice and should get another athlete/player in Staley right after the new year starts. If the roster stays healthy and we don't have any casualties I don't see any reason why Ray shouldn't be able to win 20 games. He returns more starters minutes than just about every other team in the SEC and it might actually be the most (anyone care to look it up).

[chef dixon]

Staley is slated to hoop it up. Wilson is done

Staley is a legit player- whereas Wilson was just an athlete playing

Must be a hell of an athlete to be Mr. Basketball in his state. I don't think either of these guys will ever contribute to the basketball team. Its just too much to ask and Ray obviously isn't comfortable throwing those guys into his established rotation.