Cheating in College Football

[DudyDawg]

We all know it happens, but did you guys see this? The Big12 commissioner talking about cheating in college football and basically calling out the NCAA for not doing a damn thing about it.

Here's the link: http://m.espn.go.com/extra/ncaa/story?storyId=11243234&src=desktop&rand=ref~%7B%22ref%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fwww.googl e.com%2F%22%7D

[starkvegasdawg]

We all know it happens, but did you guys see this? The Big12 commissioner talking about cheating in college football and basically calling out the NCAA for not doing a damn thing about it.

Here's the link: http://m.espn.go.com/extra/ncaa/story?storyId=11243234&src=desktop&rand=ref~%7B%22ref%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fwww.googl e.com%2F%22%7D

Every coach in his conference just did a huge face palm and started cussing like a sailor with shore leave cancelled. How stupid can you get? They're a paper dragon (unless you have Brackey Brett on your staff) and leave everybody alone. Live and let live. So you go and call them out for being worthless and lazy and not doing their job. Gee, I wonder which conference they start taking a harder look at first.

[DudyDawg]

Haha my thoughts exactly. I think he went into thinking "oh if I call them out I bet they'll look into the SEC" and now the NCAA is looking right at them

[ShotgunDawg]

The problem isn't the coaches, the problem is the boosters. Unless the NCAA gets subpoena power, there isn't much they can do. The only way to truly fix the cheating problem is to create a college football draft for the big 5 conferences, but no one has come up with anyway to do that.

[DudyDawg]

Hahaha spurrier on Espn First take said that "maybe he knows something us boys down south don't. In the SEC and ACC we follow the rules pretty well." He also said that they must be doing something in "Big10" country referring to the Big12 commish. Love spurrier

[scottycameron]

Don't be fooled, he is pointing a finger at the SEC. Big 10 guy did the same thing a few years ago. It's true we have a lot of schools on probation over the years, but the big 12 and big 10 are no angels either. I don't know off hand which schools are on probation or were on recently from the big 12 but I bet there isn't that much of a difference between the SEC and big 12, at least not as much of a difference as everyone portrays it as being. I get sick of the national media always referring to cheating when talking about the SEC dominance as of late.

[maroonmania]

90% of all college football programs don't cheat!! The other 10% are ranked. :-)

[Johnson85]

One: Bowlsby is an idiot. His comments at the end about not being able to justify paying football and men's basketball players without also paying people that play sports nobody cares about are moronic. I can understand disagreeing with it, but you'd have to be pretty damn stupid to think it's beyond debate.

Two: I love how Gundy criticized openly cheating while if not condoning at least acknowleding 'discrete' cheating. If one of his coaches is blatantly cheating, they'll get fired. I'm pretty sure that's the same approach every school takes, although you might have some arguments with Auburn and UM over what constitutes 'blatant'.

[MSU97]

Was it not Oklahoma state that had the article written up about all the outlandish things they were doing for recruits etc.

[PMDawg]

The problem isn't the coaches, the problem is the boosters. Unless the NCAA gets subpoena power, there isn't much they can do. The only way to truly fix the cheating problem is to create a college football draft for the big 5 conferences, but no one has come up with anyway to do that.

Yeah, i've thought about this before. It's a fun idea, but then it gets sour quick. You're talking 25 rounds for 64 teams....1600 players. Can you imagine, "now with the 64th pick of the FIRST round..."? It would be almost impossible for the coaches to scout past about 4 rounds.

[Political Hack]

Yeah, i've thought about this before. It's a fun idea, but then it gets sour quick. You're talking 25 rounds for 64 teams....1600 players. Can you imagine, "now with the 64th pick of the FIRST round..."? It would be almost impossible for the coaches to scout past about 4 rounds.

you have to separate it by regions and have multiple stages of drafts so kids could be selected in another region draft if they're not selected in their region, etc... it would be a nightmare. I dont think there's any way to really make it happen unless it's done only on a conference by conference basis and then the schools would be dealing with the "signability" issue just like MLB.

[scottycameron]

Yeah, i've thought about this before. It's a fun idea, but then it gets sour quick. You're talking 25 rounds for 64 teams....1600 players. Can you imagine, "now with the 64th pick of the FIRST round..."? It would be almost impossible for the coaches to scout past about 4 rounds.

Am I misreading this? Y'all are talking about kids going to any school who picks them?????????? That's crazy. One of the worst ideas in the history of ideas. What if some liberal fruit school from up north or out west picks your kid? He has to go? LOL, that crap wouldn't make it past the first 2 or 3 picks. I take that back, it wouldn't make it past the #1 overall pick.

[starkvegasdawg]

Am I misreading this? Y'all are talking about kids going to any school who picks them?????????? That's crazy. One of the worst ideas in the history of ideas. What if some liberal fruit school from up north or out west picks your kid? He has to go? LOL, that crap wouldn't make it past the first 2 or 3 picks. I take that back, it wouldn't make it past the #1 overall pick.
Players would have to submit a list of up to 10 schools they would be willing to play for and the draft is narrowed down that way. Schools can only pick from players that are willing to go there. Still not a perfect system but it would eliminate what you just mentioned.

[PassInterference]

Article says the infractions committee hasn't had a meeting in a year. Good to see Bracky got his business in before they closed shop.

[scottycameron]

Players would have to submit a list of up to 10 schools they would be willing to play for and the draft is narrowed down that way. Schools can only pick from players that are willing to go there. Still not a perfect system but it would eliminate what you just mentioned.

Geez, man. So every kid in the country puts down Alabama, Florida, FSU, USC, OSU, etc as their top 10. Or whoever the top 10 programs are. I guess we don't get no draft picks?

[starkvegasdawg]

Geez, man. So every kid in the country puts down Alabama, Florida, FSU, USC, OSU, etc as their top 10. Or whoever the top 10 programs are. I guess we don't get no draft picks?

Never said it was a perfect idea. It would just keep some kid that wanted to stay somewhat close to home and play in a certain conference from getting drafted by Holy Cross. TSUN already has a problem with players they sign not really wanting to be there and end up flaming out and leaving...and they were paid handsomely. Now imagine a kid getting drafted to a school he has no desire to play for and not getting the $50,000 and a job for mama. What kind of effort you think he will give during two a days when it's 105 outside? This was simply a response to answer one issue of a NCAA player draft. I never said I condoned it or thought it a good idea.

[DudyDawg]

Would rather see blatant cheating by Dan Mullen himself with my own two eyes than a college draft.

[scottycameron]

Never said it was a perfect idea. It would just keep some kid that wanted to stay somewhat close to home and play in a certain conference from getting drafted by Holy Cross. TSUN already has a problem with players they sign not really wanting to be there and end up flaming out and leaving...and they were paid handsomely. Now imagine a kid getting drafted to a school he has no desire to play for and not getting the $50,000 and a job for mama. What kind of effort you think he will give during two a days when it's 105 outside? This was simply a response to answer one issue of a NCAA player draft. I never said I condoned it or thought it a good idea.

Honestly, I may not of ever heard of a worse idea than a draft for college. Not to mention it reminds me of the liberal communist bussing idea back in the seventies. Bussing kids all over the place to go to school no matter what they or their parents wanted to try to even out society. Send good players to bad teams and bad players to good teams so everybody ends up medium and equal.

Just all around one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.

[starkvegasdawg]

Would rather see blatant cheating by Dan Mullen himself with my own two eyes than a college draft.

Me too. I am not in favor of one at all. I do wish they could do an early signing. In fact, what I would like to see if a player give a verbal commitment and then let him have some time to make sure it was not a decision made emotionally at the heat of the moment (say 1-2 weeks), and then let him sign a binding letter of commitment. That would let the players that know where they want to go get signed and not have to deal with the BS of schools thowing hookers and duffel bags of cash at them while at the same time letting those that want to take it up to signing day do the same. It would better help coaches know for sure who they have coming in so they can better decide how to fill their remaining spots and know who to give a firm offer to and who not to. The coaches don't get played along and neither do the recruits.

[scottycameron]

Me too. I am not in favor of one at all. I do wish they could do an early signing. In fact, what I would like to see if a player give a verbal commitment and then let him have some time to make sure it was not a decision made emotionally at the heat of the moment (say 1-2 weeks), and then let him sign a binding letter of commitment. That would let the players that know where they want to go get signed and not have to deal with the BS of schools thowing hookers and duffel bags of cash at them while at the same time letting those that want to take it up to signing day do the same. It would better help coaches know for sure who they have coming in so they can better decide how to fill their remaining spots and know who to give a firm offer to and who not to. The coaches don't get played along and neither do the recruits.

Why would an early signing date help? Everybody would do the same thing they are doing now, they would just start earlier. How is that good?

[DudyDawg]

Why would an early signing date help? Everybody would do the same thing they are doing now, they would just start earlier. How is that good?

It would cut down on all the flipping that happens because a team comes in and hammers a committed player with gifts to the point that he can't say no

[scottycameron]

It would cut down on all the flipping that happens because a team comes in and hammers a committed player with gifts to the point that he can't say no

Why wouldn't all the flipping and hammering just start earlier?

[starkvegasdawg]

Why would an early signing date help? Everybody would do the same thing they are doing now, they would just start earlier. How is that good?

They're starting in on kids now in the eigth grade. Can't get much earlier unless they start offering ultrasounds. It is good because it ends all the drama for those that choose to commit early. And by early...I would only be in favor of it once they complete their junior year. For a hypothetical example of the benfits of an early signing period being to all's advantage. Say our class this year is limited to 30 spots. Mullen already has 15 signed letters in. He knows for sure he has those players in the fold and what positions they are projected at. Now, he knows he has 15 more slots to fill. He knows what positions he still has needs in so he can rearrange who he goes after the hardest. No need to pursue 5 more CB's if he already has 3 committed and signed and the position is full. He can tell the others he was recruiting that they are full and there are no spots. They are free to pursue other schools that are still interested without wondering if their first choice may still come in and offer at the last minute. Mullen knows he still needs two more tackles so he can recruit that position all the harder and the players he is recruiting know for sure he is serious about wanting them. I just don't see a negative to it unless you are one of the super elite schools like Alabama that can pick and choose and pull and place offers at the last minute because almost every player in the nation wants to go there to play.

[DownwardDawg]

Why wouldn't all the flipping and hammering just start earlier?

They all get hammered already. If a kid commits in July and then signs in August on a early signing day, there is not much time for the flipping. Flipping requires time. It takes co-eds, boosters, etc... to make it happen. Plus, it eliminates most of the dead period recruiting that goes on.

The kid is the big winner in an early signing period.(along with his HS coach) It allows him to focus on his grades and having a great senior year/season with no stress.

[PMDawg]

Am I misreading this? Y'all are talking about kids going to any school who picks them?????????? That's crazy. One of the worst ideas in the history of ideas. What if some liberal fruit school from up north or out west picks your kid? He has to go? LOL, that crap wouldn't make it past the first 2 or 3 picks. I take that back, it wouldn't make it past the #1 overall pick.

Ummm, that's what I said. It's a fun idea until you really think about it. It gets terrible quickly. It's impossible. But as we try to turn into NFL lite, it's bound to eventually come up.

[Westdawg]

i have an idea that would solve the debate of a "college draft" AND whether or not to pay football players......it's called a MINOR LEAGUE FOOTBALL SYSTEM. that's right, i said it. The NFL has been milking college for decades and allowing themselves the benefit of a defacto minor league without having to foot the bill for it. Instead, we are lowering college admission standards, skirting the rules of ethical behavior, and now in the conversation of PAYING A COLLEGE STUDENT on top of a free education all in the name of having a good program.
Personally and professionally as a coach, this is the only idea that truly will be effective. Players who want to play college ball and get an education, sign and LOI to play for "X" school. Those that want to test the waters after their senior year - go into the draft. If you don't get selected or don't want to sign a contract with whatever organization drafts you, then either go to JUCO or a DII school IF THEY SIGNED WITH AN AGENT, or to the school they want to sign an LOI with IF SAID SCHOOL HAS AN OPEN SPOT for that class. and then have the option of being drafted after 3 years removed from high school.

[Westdawg]

well, dang, I guess i shut this whole conversation up!!