The Malik Newman/Diamond Stone Package Deal...

[engie]

RT @iammaliknewman: My boy committing before me?wish him the best of luck? @Diamond_Stone33 don't mean that's the school I'm going to tho?

Followed by this gem:
Hugh Kellenberger ‏@HKellenbergerCL 3m
@CourtneyRCronin You mean a package deal has a chance of falling apart at the end? Well I never ...

[CadaverDawg]

Great news

[ScottH]

I fully realize a million pieces have to fall into place (actually closer to a fifty thousand) but at lease this is one.

[starkvegasdawg]

Hope those fifty thousand pieces don't all have pictures of Andrew Jackson or other famous dead American on them.

[DudyDawg]

Hope those fifty thousand pieces don't all have pictures of Andrew Jackson or other famous dead American on them.

Noooooooooooooooo way we would do that.






It would be a check****

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

So we may not be Teh Suck next year?

[engie]

Getting prediction for Nych Smith too now -- who has offers from UConn, Memphis, Tennessee, Arky, OM, etc...

[msstate7]

Getting prediction for Nych Smith too now -- who has offers from UConn, Memphis, Tennessee, Arky, OM, etc...

If we get one of smith or newman, I'll be happy

[Coach34]

The tide is turning and some C34 "I told ya so's" are creeping ever closer...

[starkvegasdawg]

Noooooooooooooooo way we would do that.




It would be a check****


Probably sent certified mail.**

[C222]

Getting prediction for Nych Smith too now -- who has offers from UConn, Memphis, Tennessee, Arky, OM, etc...

That surprises me about Nych. I figured he would drop us or we would stop recruiting him once Tookie committed.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Yea Nych is a very good player but I don't see us taking him unless Tookie leaves & by all accounts he's very happy with his decision. Tookie & Nych are basically the same players.

[jumbo]

That surprises me about Nych. I figured he would drop us or we would stop recruiting him once Tookie committed.


it's an either or deal on Smith and Newman.

[C222]

it's an either or deal on Smith and Newman.

That's interesting. I'd rather have Quinndary Weatherspoon over Nych, if Tookie signs.

[Dawg61]

Don't fall off the mountain sheep


http://youtu.be/m7SVrt5H-dA

[Schultzy]

The tide is turning and some C34 "I told ya so's" are creeping ever closer...

I'm gonna really enjoy it when that day gets here.

[Dawg61]

I'm gonna really enjoy it IF that day gets here.


fify

[headcoach98]

Really want and need Quinndary to be apart of this class.

[thedawg]

I talked to an above average source last week at the coaching clinic and as of last week Malik was almost certainly going to Kentucky... I realize shit like this changes daily sometimes so take it for what it's worth

[Dawg61]

Really want and need Quinndary to be apart of this class.

This!



"Quinndary is a skilled and athletic wing. He uses a quick first step to get to the basket, where he uses his long arms and explosiveness to finish at the rim. He has good ball skills and can play point guard when needed, which enhances his worth as a college prospect. He also active on the glass, where he finishes several plays off missed shots by teammates. He has become an explosive high volume scorer and consistent long range shooter.
College Projection:

High-Major
Complete Rankings:

Player Grade: 91 (4-Star)
National Rank: 95
Position Rank: 33
State Rank: 3"

[engie]

I talked to an above average source last week at the coaching clinic and as of last week Malik was almost certainly going to Kentucky... I realize shit like this changes daily sometimes so take it for what it's worth

UK scuttlebutt is that they either have or are moving on from Malik. UK put out 3 new SG offers in the past couple of weeks... http://kentucky.247sports.com/Board/296/Contents/Malik-Newman-29727708
http://kentuckysportsradio.com/main/is-malik-newman-slipping-from-kentucky/

[thedawg]

Interesting... this guy said "Malik wants to go to Kentucky and they want him... I cant see him going anywhere else... 0% chance he goes to State." This guy is a State alum and huge fan. He also SHOULD know what the hell hes talking about... I have no idea what the real situation is... I really hope he comes to state because Im a Ray fan and it will save his job for 100% and he it will provide him the needed time to get it done if he can..

[engie]

Interesting... this guy said "Malik wants to go to Kentucky and they want him... I cant see him going anywhere else... 0% chance he goes to State." This guy is a State alum and huge fan. He also SHOULD know what the hell hes talking about... I have no idea what the real situation is... I really hope he comes to state because Im a Ray fan and it will save his job for 100% and he it will provide him the needed time to get it done if he can..

I'm with you.

I've had a bunch of people telling me "no chance" and laughing at me for disagreeing for a long time now to the extent that I have a number of bookmarks for this topic. All while hearing something very different from about as good of sources as you can have on this. That's not to say that he's coming to MSU -- it's recruiting. Basketball recruiting. And it's BBN we're going against here. But we're in the middle of the game for Malik and have been for months now.

That said, there is no prize for coming in second on this. Ray has got to close him.

[yjnkdawg]

I really hope Ray can succeed on this. He really came into a bad situation, so it is overdue for some good things to happen to him and our basketball program.

[Bark]

When is the signing period? There are two right? Will he sign the first period or second?

[engie]

When is the signing period? There are two right? Will he sign the first period or second?

Malik won't sign until the late signing period next spring...

[KB21]

I really hope Ray can succeed on this. He really came into a bad situation, so it is overdue for some good things to happen to him and our basketball program.

This. I honestly can't think of a worse situation for a coach to walk into outside of the situation Scott Drew walked into at Baylor. This was a complete dumpster fire, and you could see the signs that things were heading towards this late in Stansbury's career at MSU. Stans's problem was that the good players he got, he couldn't control them nor coach them up.

[hopsondawg]

Their was talk on Geoff Caulkins radio show this morning of Mississippi adding Horatio Webster to their basketball staff in a bid to secure Malik's signing. Would Rick Ray be open to adding Horatio if that is what it takes to signing Malik?

[starkvegasdawg]

Their was talk on Geoff Caulkins radio show this morning of Mississippi adding Horatio Webster to their basketball staff in a bid to secure Malik's signing. Would Rick Ray be open to adding Horatio if that is what it takes to signing Malik?

If he's not up to it then he should beat over the head with a crow bar until he warms up to the idea.

[engie]

IMO Horatio would be great for recruiting that goes well beyond Malik...

The places Malik has been with TeamUSA and the people that know Horatio and his larger than life personality have to present a ton of "ins" on the national level

[Sandman14]

Just gonna jump in and jump right back out of this party. Have to remind you guys of the dream you have concocted and now brow beaten into your skulls to such an extent that you believe it's reality. Stansbury won 17 games or more in 12 of 14 seasons. He won 20 or more in 10 of 14, including his last season in which he won 21. Rick Ray is the laughing stock of the country. He's an assistant coach who has been placed at the helm of a legit SEC basketball program, and his performance has been an utter disaster. He has a combined 7 SEC wins in two years with no hope in sight aside from this pipe dream with Newman. Three years in and we still have no talent whatsoever and are banking on signing the number 1 player in the country.

Stansbury won at least 7 SEC games in 12 of his 14 seasons. That's 7 in same season 12 of 14. Ray has 7 in two years. Stansbury won at least 8 SEC games per season in 10 of his last 11 years.

It would be an unbelievable occurrence if Ray signs Newman. And "unbelievable" is the correct word. Because it's not believable. It won't happen. Would love to be wrong, and yes, doing so could be a game changer for Ray. But somehow getting Kobe Bryant on the team would also be a game changer. Perhaps getting Lebron James to shun Cleveland for Starkville and put a wig on him to trick the NCAA. That would be a game changer too. It's just that those things are unbelievable as well. Like signing Newman.

Would really, really love to be wrong, but this chatter is comical. And I just wanted to infuse some reality into the situation.

[engie]

Stansbury also built his team for 8 years prior to getting the head job -- and still didn't make the NCAAs until year 4.

It's lovely how easy it is to define a Stansbury apologist by the data he uses to define what Stans did here. "20 wins" = "I'm still butt hurt -- and a prime candidate for one of the guys that's sabotaging Ray"

That 21 wins and first round out of the NIT with Two first round NBA players -- another in the league as a free agent currently -- along with a former national #1 recruit -- should say all there is to say. But somehow, to you, it doesn't.

Yep!!1!1 Getting Malik = Getting Lebron!!1!1 Idiot. It took you one post in the last 3 months to remind me why I have to click "view post" every time I'm feeling like reading axe-grinding basketball stupidity. Looking forward to coach banning you again.

[Sandman14]

Ray does have one accomplishment. He's done something Stansbury was never able to do over the course of his 14 year tenure. And that's win less than 5 SEC games in a season. Rick Ray, in fact, has done what Stansbury could never do over 14 years and he's done it two years in a row. The guy is a magician. What a masterful coach he is. MSU basketball is so much fun these days. Awesome.

[MarketingBully01]

This. I honestly can't think of a worse situation for a coach to walk into outside of the situation Scott Drew walked into at Baylor. This was a complete dumpster fire, and you could see the signs that things were heading towards this late in Stansbury's career at MSU. Stans's problem was that the good players he got, he couldn't control them nor coach them up.

Please stop comparing our situation to Scott Drew and Baylor. Last I checked, we weren't on NCAA probation and we didn't have a player murdered. This is the dumbest thing I think I have ever seen compared.

[Dawg61]

and a prime candidate for one of the guys that's sabotaging Ray

Ray is sabotaging Ray and all of you apologists need to start owning the suck or this whole shit will just continue to get worse. Own it Engie. We suck. Say it. Say that we suck. Until y'all can say that and give reasons why we suck without continuing to blame Stansbury, his fans and these so called "saboteurs" we have no hope because Ray has endless rope.
Please do us all a favor and tells us why you think we suck without bringing up the previous coach, boosters, dumpster fires or anything of that nature. Why do we suck Engie? Or can you even admit that we suck?

[Sandman14]

yes, yes indeed. admit it. we suck. year 3 and we suck terribly. our SEC win total regressed from 4 to 3.

think how great it would be to have a bunch of elite athletes in the program right now, acting all unruly and getting into trouble, winning 22 or 23 games, with a coach that just brings em in and let's em play ball. a good hearted man who loves MSU to his core and would never turn his back on us as Ray would do immediately if he ever won a few games and had a chance to leave (which will never happen because (A) he's an awful coach and (B) no one else wants him). sounds like a dream. we'd probably even get Newman this year. we'd have just sent Rodney Hood off the league after he guided us to 20+ wins last season. and then you wake up and realize how terrible of a nightmare this is.

this is beyond Ray. it's not Ray's fault. this is a stricklin issue.

[thedawg]

**** I thought we had agreed to disagree and let him have year three... If we arnt better this year I'll lead the charge to fire his ass but damn it he deserves this year... He's gonna win 20 this year and be very average or be about as good as Stansbury was the majority of his tenure.. Except we won't be fighting each other in the stands or walking up and down the court

[thf24]

yes, yes indeed. admit it. we suck. year 3 and we suck terribly. our SEC win total regressed from 4 to 3.

think how great it would be to have a bunch of elite athletes in the program right now, acting all unruly and getting into trouble, winning 22 or 23 games, with a coach that just brings em in and let's em play ball. a good hearted man who loves MSU to his core and would never turn his back on us as Ray would do immediately if he ever won a few games and had a chance to leave (which will never happen because (A) he's an awful coach and (B) no one else wants him). sounds like a dream. we'd probably even get Newman this year. we'd have just sent Rodney Hood off the league after he guided us to 20+ wins last season. and then you wake up and realize how terrible of a nightmare this is.

this is beyond Ray. it's not Ray's fault. this is a stricklin issue.

I really don't know why some of you so willingly set yourselves up to potentially look like hysterical idiots down the road. Not saying you won't be right in the end, but no one on the other side is saying with certainty that Ray is going to start winning and get us a natty in the next few years. And how the hell did a man who's had no association with our program in over two years get dragged into yet another basketball thread? Can that please be made a bannable offense, whether it's good or bad?

[engie]

**** I thought we had agreed to disagree and let him have year three... If we arnt better this year I'll lead the charge to fire his ass but damn it he deserves this year... He's gonna win 20 this year and be very average or be about as good as Stansbury was the majority of his tenure.. Except we won't be fighting each other in the stands or walking up and down the court

Exactly. Great post.

It speaks to the intelligence of these particular members of the "anti-Ray" crowd. While I understand the complaints and anger during the season -- and can even understand skewing on the "he isn't going to get it done" side of the fence -- but it's a totally dumb ass time to be complaining right now, as he's making a move with Malik Newman, has a full roster, has a 2nd 5, a couple of shooters, is in the game with a couple of really good 2015 recruits, etc.

[Goat from MSU]

This is turning to a another engie"\'s crew vs Dawg61'S crew PISSING MATCH. NO matter what Ray gets year 3 and for his sake it better be 20 or more wins. Better yet let's each give engie and Dawg a six shooter and the winner gets to decide Ray's fate.

[MarketingBully01]

Exactly. Great post.

It speaks to the intelligence of these particular members of the "anti-Ray" crowd. While I understand the complaints and anger during the season -- and can even understand skewing on the "he isn't going to get it done" side of the fence -- but it's a totally dumb ass time to be complaining right now, as he's making a move with Malik Newman, has a full roster, has a 2nd 5, a couple of shooters, is in the game with a couple of really good 2015 recruits, etc.

I hope he does get Malik first and foremost because I am an MSU fan and I want us to win. He is going to get at least four years no matter what happens (even if he sucks this year and we have another losing record). If he loses in year 3 and he doesn't get Malik, the fans will be united in getting rid of him and that year 4 will be awful. I don't think anyone wants that at all. If he gets Malik and wins this year, it will unite the fan base in the best possible way. I hope he does win and we have a united fanbase and we can forget these first two years. I am sick of the divided fanbase as we are all bulldogs.

[Dawg61]

And how the hell did a man who's had no association with our program in over two years get dragged into yet another basketball thread? Can that please be made a bannable offense, whether it's good or bad?

Stansbury is MSU's all-time winningest coach and 9th all-time in the SEC. He was the HC for 14 years and and assistant here before that. He will get talked about for a very long time. He'll get brought up till all of us are dead and gone or the internet stops. Accept that and don't let it bother you is my advice.

[engie]

This is turning to a another engie"\'s crew vs Dawg61'S crew PISSING MATCH. NO matter what Ray gets year 3 and for his sake it better be 20 or more wins. Better yet let's each give engie and Dawg a six shooter and the winner gets to decide Ray's fate.

I haven't yet decided what I want Ray's fate to be. I'm simply championing the idea that it's too soon to know -- and literally 100% of evidence from other coaching searches in similar situations bare that out. No one is calling for Ray to win the SEC next year, etc... That's why one side of this is logical -- while one side is full retard.

[engie]

I hope he does get Malik first and foremost because I am an MSU fan and I want us to win. He is going to get at least four years no matter what happens (even if he sucks this year and we have another losing record). If he loses in year 3 and he doesn't get Malik, the fans will be united in getting rid of him and that year 4 will be awful. I don't think anyone wants that at all. If he gets Malik and wins this year, it will unite the fan base in the best possible way. I hope he does win and we have a united fanbase and we can forget these first two years. I am sick of the divided fanbase as we are all bulldogs.

Agreed with all of this. Best basketball post you've had in awhile! Year 3 will tell us the story IMO -- one way or another.

To me, worst case is him winning 16-17 games, not getting Malik, and thus keeping the fanbase divided to an extent. Barring extreme circumstances with injuries or something, I'd be ready to move on to someone new at that point.

[thedawg]

I'm not in anyone's crew... I just know u can't fire a coach every two years if u ever want to have a decent program much less a good one...

[thedawg]

He's gonna win 20 next year and the same assholes that didn't want it fire Stansbury will say 20 wins doesn't mean anything and the circular argument will continue...

[Goat from MSU]

I haven't yet decided what I want Ray's fate to be. I'm simply championing the idea that it's too soon to know -- and literally 100% of evidence from other coaching searches in similar situations bare that out. No one is calling for Ray to win the SEC next year, etc... That's why one side of this is logical -- while one side is full retard.

I was trying for humor here. OK I give you a fact we have 5 players that are returning with at least 900 or more min. of SEC play . We will see how good of a coach Ray is . I believe anything less than 20 wins ,we should think about other options. Newman or no Newman.

[thf24]

Stansbury is MSU's all-time winningest coach and 9th all-time in the SEC. He was the HC for 14 years and and assistant here before that. He will get talked about for a very long time. He'll get brought up till all of us are dead and gone or the internet stops. Accept that and don't let it bother you is my advice.

Ok fair enough. I guess I'm talking specifically about comparisons between him and his program to Ray and the current program. It's pointless and just leads to threads going to shit with year-old arguments.

[engie]

I was trying for humor here. OK I give you a fact we have 5 players that are returning with at least 900 or more min. of SEC play . We will see how good of a coach Ray is . I believe anything less than 20 wins ,we should think about other options. Newman or no Newman.

Agreed

[Dawg61]

I haven't yet decided what I want Ray's fate to be. I'm simply championing the idea that it's too soon to know -- and literally 100% of evidence from other coaching searches in similar situations bare that out.

I don't need to be dunked into a bucket of shit to know it is shit. I don't need to eat it either to know. You seem to need 100% certainty that Ray is not the guy before you make that decision. You should at least start to consider the possibility that he isn't based on the evidence that only he has brought to the table. Ray is getting this year and most likely next year too but that doesn't mean we can't start to consider that Stricklin rushed a hire in only 18 days after Stansbury resigned and we all ended up with not the right one.

Please eliminate baseball and football from Ray discussions. They are different sports with entirely different situations/circumstances.

[War Machine Dawg]

Exactly. Great post.

It speaks to the intelligence of these particular members of the "anti-Ray" crowd. While I understand the complaints and anger during the season -- and can even understand skewing on the "he isn't going to get it done" side of the fence -- but it's a totally dumb ass time to be complaining right now, as he's making a move with Malik Newman, has a full roster, has a 2nd 5, a couple of shooters, is in the game with a couple of really good 2015 recruits, etc.

No kidding. Ray is showing at least some ability to recruit. Most of the reasonable people agree that was the biggest question mark about him coming in and what would ultimately decide his fate. Granted, there are no moral victories in recruiting. You either get the players or you don't. But the fact is that he's at least in the game for these quality players. I take that as a good sign considering where we were 4 seasons ago and the atrocious win totals we've put up the last two years. The media openly calling us a dumpster fire, players fighting in the stands, players walking up the court, rampant drug problems, etc. I'm shocked any kid even considers us after all of that, but somehow Ray is getting them to do so. And it tells me that Ray is able to sell the program's values and that kids are listening. Now it's a question of can he close these guys. But at least let it play out and see what happens.

Also, all this talk of 20+ win seasons is the biggest red herring imaginable. Sure, when Stans first started it was a big deal. But by the end, Helen Keller's School for the Blind was winning 20 games a year. And in case anyone wants to conveniently forget, we missed the NCAAT with 20+ wins at least once. That alone should tell you how watered down that "achievement" had become.

Full disclosure: I don't really care much about hoops one way or the other. The last several years of the cluster**** that was the Stans Era ruined it for me, maybe forever. But he had to go. Anyone who can't admit that is a complete moron. I don't know if Ray will succeed or not. Personally, I'd like to see him succeed. But all this constant back-and-forth and the agenda driven anti-Ray crowd is ridiculous. These threads are damn near unreadable because of dipshits like Sandman and Geezer. Dipshits, I might add, who took their ball and went home when we needed them to be supportive. I have no respect for that bullshit.

[C222]

Just gonna jump in and jump right back out of this party. Have to remind you guys of the dream you have concocted and now brow beaten into your skulls to such an extent that you believe it's reality. Stansbury won 17 games or more in 12 of 14 seasons. He won 20 or more in 10 of 14, including his last season in which he won 21. Rick Ray is the laughing stock of the country. He's an assistant coach who has been placed at the helm of a legit SEC basketball program, and his performance has been an utter disaster. He has a combined 7 SEC wins in two years with no hope in sight aside from this pipe dream with Newman. Three years in and we still have no talent whatsoever and are banking on signing the number 1 player in the country.

Stansbury won at least 7 SEC games in 12 of his 14 seasons. That's 7 in same season 12 of 14. Ray has 7 in two years. Stansbury won at least 8 SEC games per season in 10 of his last 11 years.

It would be an unbelievable occurrence if Ray signs Newman. And "unbelievable" is the correct word. Because it's not believable. It won't happen. Would love to be wrong, and yes, doing so could be a game changer for Ray. But somehow getting Kobe Bryant on the team would also be a game changer. Perhaps getting Lebron James to shun Cleveland for Starkville and put a wig on him to trick the NCAA. That would be a game changer too. It's just that those things are unbelievable as well. Like signing Newman.

Would really, really love to be wrong, but this chatter is comical. And I just wanted to infuse some reality into the situation.

Great comparison. I missed where Kobe and LeBron's dad played for us.

I'm not sure which one was more embarrassing: winning 3 SEC games or having 2 1st round NBA draft picks, the #1 HS player in the country, and a 4 year starter at PG and not making the tournament.

[Dawg61]

I'm not in anyone's crew... I just know u can't fire a coach every two years if u ever want to have a decent program much less a good one...
Agreed, excellent point and no I do not want to be stuck in the Arkansas, LSU hole of firing coaches over and over again. We just have to make very good hires when we do it. Looking at you Stricklin. Don't rush hires or we end up in much worse situations for longer periods of time.


I was trying for humor here. OK I give you a fact we have 5 players that are returning with at least 900 or more min. of SEC play . We will see how good of a coach Ray is . I believe anything less than 20 wins ,we should think about other options. Newman or no Newman.
I am good with 20 wins being the bar. Ray gets 20 I'll get off his ass.


Ok fair enough. I guess I'm talking specifically about comparisons between him and his program to Ray and the current program. It's pointless and just leads to threads going to shit with year-old arguments.
Bringing up Stansbury's win totals and success to pull Ray down annoys the fu@k out of me too but it shouldn't be ignored either.


Agreed
Agreed to Engie's "agreed". Is 20 wins the bar? Can we all agree on "get 20 or get gone"? of course if something ridiculously unfortunate happens like the entire team gets Malaria this can not be the bar.

[thf24]

Dipshits, I might add, who took their ball and went home when we needed them to be supportive. I have no respect for that bullshit.

This can't be overstated. Even if you hate the hire and are 100% sure he's not going to last, you're just hurting the program and making it harder for the next guy by cutting off your support. That logic is, of course, predicated on the assumption that one's first loyalty is to the program, which hasn't seemed to be the case in a few instances.

[engie]

I don't need to be dunked into a bucket of shit to know it is shit. I don't need to eat it either to know. You seem to need 100% certainty that Ray is not the guy before you make that decision. You should at least start to consider the possibility that he isn't based on the evidence that only he has brought to the table. Ray is getting this year and most likely next year too but that doesn't mean we can't start to consider that Stricklin rushed a hire in only 18 days after Stansbury resigned and we all ended up with not the right one.

Please eliminate baseball and football from Ray discussions. They are different sports with entirely different situations/circumstances.

This is why you are setting yourself up to be a total idiot -- and a whole bunch of us can't wait. You don't "know" what you've seen is "shit". What the logical among us have seen is a lack of depth and upper-class leadership, with talented players playing before they are ready -- and wearing down as years went on.

You DO NEED to be 100% certain that "Ray is not the guy" before you make any damn decisions. This is what's so stupid about your position.

EVERYONE has considered this "possibility". The problem is with your approach as if it's some sort of "factuality" instead of a "possibility".

It's amazing that despite probably 5,000 words -- you STILL don't understand my point with the Cohen analogies. Let me try it for the 90238409238th time -- A BUNCH of the geniuses in our fanbase thought we had made a mistake hiring him for 2 years. They thought we should fire him after year 2. They thought he was terrible. They cussed him and bitched about literally EVERYTHING. Then, they were wrong. Then, they pretended they were ALWAYS on board with the hire. For the most part, it's the same exact people bitching about Ray -- and KNOWING he won't get it done. They are ignorant to the fact that they were ignorant the last time. And no amount of pasted posts from them bashing Cohen and calling for his head will change their mind or make them "get" the similarity to what they are doing with Ray. It's funny -- EVERYONE that possess even marginal logic understand exactly the point of the analogy. While the sky is falling crowd persist in not understanding -- and doing the same exact thing that posterized them the first time.

[Johnson85]

I was trying for humor here. OK I give you a fact we have 5 players that are returning with at least 900 or more min. of SEC play . We will see how good of a coach Ray is . I believe anything less than 20 wins ,we should think about other options. Newman or no Newman.

That would be crazy to get rid of Ray if he wins 19 and pulls in Newman. Granted that won't be setting the world on fire, but ignoring the fact that you've got a game changer recruit coming in that you would likely lose in exchange for taking a flyer on another coach, you'd be dumping Ray as soon as he showed a glimmer of hope. I don't think there's any doubt that as far as the short term, Stricklin didn't make a good decision. Just too much of a hill to climb to bring a guy with no head coachign experience and very little if any regional recruiting ties to a situation with a decimated roster and boosters that are not sold on him. But now that we've put up with a couple of years of growing pains and let him establish some sort of recruiting plan, might as well give him through year four to see if he can turn it around.

[C222]

Their was talk on Geoff Caulkins radio show this morning of Mississippi adding Horatio Webster to their basketball staff in a bid to secure Malik's signing. Would Rick Ray be open to adding Horatio if that is what it takes to signing Malik?

There is also talk of OM hiring Gerald Hamilton who is the "handler" of Skal Labissiere. Skal is already a projected lottery pick in 2016.

[War Machine Dawg]

This can't be overstated. Even if you hate the hire and are 100% sure he's not going to last, you're just hurting the program and making it harder for the next guy by cutting off your support. That logic is, of course, predicated on the assumption that one's first loyalty is to the program, which hasn't seemed to be the case in a few instances.

Indeed. We all know where the loyalty of the majority of the anti-Ray crowd lies.

[Dawg61]

No kidding. Ray is showing at least some ability to recruit. Most of the reasonable people agree that was the biggest question mark about him coming in and what would ultimately decide his fate. Granted, there are no moral victories in recruiting. You either get the players or you don't. But the fact is that he's at least in the game for these quality players.

BOOM!!! And now y'all see why I have been bitching about the Newman talk. It isn't because I don't want Newman. OF COURSE I WANT NEWMAN. But do you see what is now growing amongst our fanbase about Ray and his ability to recruit. Ray is starting to gain credit as a good recruiter FOR NO DAMN REASON.

Ask yourself this question. What coach that would be the HC at MSU COULDN'T be in Newman's top 5? His daddy played for MSU. His house and family are only 2 hours from MSU's campus. He can play SEC basketball on national TV only a short drive from his home. He can be the state's hero for forever by playing for MSU for one season and then go be a mega-milionare for life. WHO CAN'T SELL THAT? That is literally the easiest sell EVER for a coach at MSU. Ray gets zero credit from me for being in Newman's top 5. HIS DADDY IS A LEGACY. Now if Ray LANDS Newman I will be VERY IMPRESSED. Till then adding value to Ray's ability to recruit because he's "in the game" with Newman isn't looking at the situation with open eyes.

No offense WMD you're just the first one to post it.

[Coach34]

Bookmarked

[Dawg61]

This is why you are setting yourself up to be a total idiot -- and a whole bunch of us can't wait. You don't "know" what you've seen is "shit". What the logical among us have seen is a lack of depth and upper-class leadership, with talented players playing before they are ready -- and wearing down as years went on.

You DO NEED to be 100% certain that "Ray is not the guy" before you make any damn decisions. This is what's so stupid about your position.

EVERYONE has considered this "possibility". The problem is with your approach as if it's some sort of "factuality" instead of a "possibility".

It's amazing that despite probably 5,000 words -- you STILL don't understand my point with the Cohen analogies. Let me try it for the 90238409238th time -- A BUNCH of the geniuses in our fanbase thought we had made a mistake hiring him for 2 years. They thought we should fire him after year 2. They thought he was terrible. They cussed him and bitched about literally EVERYTHING. Then, they were wrong. Then, they pretended they were ALWAYS on board with the hire. For the most part, it's the same exact people bitching about Ray -- and KNOWING he won't get it done. They are ignorant to the fact that they were ignorant the last time. And no amount of pasted posts from them bashing Cohen and calling for his head will change their mind or make them "get" the similarity to what they are doing with Ray. It's funny -- EVERYONE that possess even marginal logic understand exactly the point of the analogy. While the sky is falling crowd persist in not understanding -- and doing the same exact thing that posterized them the first time.

Being dunked in a bucket of shit isn't the point. I am not calling Ray a bucket of shit. I don't need to be in a car accident to know what one is either. Whatever analogy you want to use here. I don't need to eat a bowl of ice cream to know it is ice cream. Better? I don't know for 100% that Ray isn't the guy but that doesn't mean I am going to ignore all the signs telling me he isn't. You haven't discussed one single sign since he took the job. That is what frustrates me about this. You won't admit that Ray is showing signs himself that he is indeed not the right guy for the job.

Your deal with Cohen and posters is an issue you have with some posters previous posting habits. Address that issue with those posters specifically when talking to them instead of continually making blanket statements about how "people were wrong with Cohen and look what he's done so they will be wrong with Ray too". Unless you're specifically addressing a specific poster and say it in your post I don't see how baseball correlates to basketball and same with football. Address posters and please stop evaluating hiring decisions because one sport is successful so the other sport will be too.

[thf24]

I don't know for 100% that Ray isn't the guy but that doesn't mean I am going to ignore all the signs telling me he isn't.

I think that's a pretty good point. My opinion on that though is that most, if not all, of those signs can be explained by external factors out of Ray's control, and it's too early to know which is the case.

[engie]

Being dunked in a bucket of shit isn't the point. I am not calling Ray a bucket of shit. I don't need to be in a car accident to know what one is either. Whatever analogy you want to use here. I don't need to eat a bowl of ice cream to know it is ice cream. Better? I don't know for 100% that Ray isn't the guy but that doesn't mean I am going to ignore all the signs telling me he isn't. You haven't discussed one single sign since he took the job. That is what frustrates me about this. You won't admit that Ray is showing signs himself that he is indeed not the right guy for the job.
I've discussed "signs" ad nauseam. Cohen had a bunch of "signs" too. You can't take shit from the early part of a rebuild and expect it to hold true after the rebuild is complete. "Admitted" it in this very thread actually.

The issue is your 100% RAY IS NOT GOING TO GET IT DONE approach. It has not been about "seeing signs" -- it's been 100% certainty from you. Constantly. Just like you've been 100% certain we aren't getting Newman and have ruined EVERY thread about our obvious current momentum on him on multiple boards with that bullshit that YOU DO NOT KNOW NOR HAVE A CLUE ABOUT.


Your deal with Cohen and posters is an issue you have with some posters previous posting habits. Address that issue with those posters specifically when talking to them instead of continually making blanket statements about how "people were wrong with Cohen and look what he's done so they will be wrong with Ray too".
I have done that. Constantly. Where have you been? Ask Coach how many of "your supporters" have been posterized by my search function. And based on your posting history, I highly believe you'd be RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of that group had you not taken a 1 year hiatus from posting during Cohen's second year here.


Unless you're specifically addressing a specific poster and say it in your post I don't see how baseball correlates to basketball and same with football. Address posters and please stop evaluating hiring decisions because one sport is successful so the other sport will be too.
And you still -- STILL -- fail to understand the correlation. You can't make this shit up.

For literally the 50th time. Although I know you aren't going to "get" it.
IT IS NOT ABOUT THE SPECIFIC SPORTS. OF COURSE THEY ARE ALL VERY DIFFERENT. IT'S ABOUT PREMATURE JUDGEMENT OF COACHES THAT INHERIT A BAD SITUATION AND DURING A REBUILD. THAT IS CONSTANT ACROSS ALL SPORTS. TOO EARLY TO JUDGE IS TOO EARLY TO JUDGE. Doesn't matter if it's football, basketball, or badminton.

FAHR Coach K!11!1

[MadDawg]

Your deal with Cohen and posters is an issue you have with some posters previous posting habits.

Keep in mind, there were some posters that think they know everything that were calling for Mullen to be fired as recently as 9 months ago. So even internet know-it-alls, who call out other posters for being wrong about a coach, can be wrong as well.

[War Machine Dawg]

BOOM!!! And now y'all see why I have been bitching about the Newman talk. It isn't because I don't want Newman. OF COURSE I WANT NEWMAN. But do you see what is now growing amongst our fanbase about Ray and his ability to recruit. Ray is starting to gain credit as a good recruiter FOR NO DAMN REASON.

Ask yourself this question. What coach that would be the HC at MSU COULDN'T be in Newman's top 5? His daddy played for MSU. His house and family are only 2 hours from MSU's campus. He can play SEC basketball on national TV only a short drive from his home. He can be the state's hero for forever by playing for MSU for one season and then go be a mega-milionare for life. WHO CAN'T SELL THAT? That is literally the easiest sell EVER for a coach at MSU. Ray gets zero credit from me for being in Newman's top 5. HIS DADDY IS A LEGACY. Now if Ray LANDS Newman I will be VERY IMPRESSED. Till then adding value to Ray's ability to recruit because he's "in the game" with Newman isn't looking at the situation with open eyes.

No offense WMD you're just the first one to post it.

http://i.imgur.com/6aQfdE6.gif

There is so much fail in your post, I don't know where to begin. But hell, I'll give it a shot.

1) We weren't in Newman's Top 5 when your hero Stans was still employed. It was well known that Horatio didn't want Malik to play for Stans. So much for "What coach that would be the HC at MSU COULDN"T be in Newman's top 5?" That's right, The Recruiter himself.

2) We weren't in the discussion when Ray first got the job. Horatio was reluctant to give an unknown a chance with Malik. Ray has worked his ass off for TWO YEARS to get us into a position where we have a very, very real shot at landing Malik. He must've shown Horatio something in his first two years for Horatio to even let him get into the Malik Sweepstakes.

3) You conveniently ignored the part where I said "there is no close in recruiting, you either land them or you don't."

4) My comment that he appears to be improving isn't based solely on Malik. You are willfully ignoring that he's got us in the game with two top 2015 recruits. If it were just Malik, that would be different. But we've got other top level talent giving us a chance, too.

C34 will back me up on everything I just said.

Once aGAIN, your agenda is overloading your reason. You clearly want Ray to fail and are purposely twisting everything anyone says in support of Ray to fit your agenda. Way to be a douche and kill every hoops thread on the board. I don't expect you to get any of what I just said, but it needed to be said.

[Dawg61]

I've discussed "signs" ad nauseam. Cohen had a bunch of "signs" too. You can't take shit from the early part of a rebuild and expect it to hold true after the rebuild is complete. "Admitted" it in this very thread actually.

The issue is your 100% RAY IS NOT GOING TO GET IT DONE approach. It has not been about "seeing signs" -- it's been 100% certainty from you. Constantly. Just like you've been 100% certain we aren't getting Newman and have ruined EVERY thread about our obvious current momentum on him on multiple boards with that bullshit that YOU DO NOT KNOW NOR HAVE A CLUE ABOUT.


I have done that. Constantly. Where have you been? Ask Coach how many of "your supporters" have been posterized by my search function. And based on your posting history, I highly believe you'd be RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of that group had you not taken a 1 year hiatus from posting during Cohen's second year here.


And you still -- STILL -- fail to understand the correlation. You can't make this shit up.

For literally the 50th time. Although I know you aren't going to "get" it.
IT IS NOT ABOUT THE SPECIFIC SPORTS. OF COURSE THEY ARE ALL VERY DIFFERENT. IT'S ABOUT PREMATURE JUDGEMENT OF COACHES THAT INHERIT A BAD SITUATION AND DURING A REBUILD. THAT IS CONSTANT ACROSS ALL SPORTS. TOO EARLY TO JUDGE IS TOO EARLY TO JUDGE. Doesn't matter if it's football, basketball, or badminton.

FAHR Coach K!11!1

What signs that Ray isn't the right guy have you admitted? Please humor me and tell me again. Your issue with me is my posting style. Same issue Brad and IAA have with me. I don't know for 100% that Ray isn't the right guy. I am admittedly leaning heavily in that direction though. I don't know for 100% that Ray won't land Newman. I am leaning heavily in that direction though. 100% shouldn't be the determining factor for most things in life. 100% certainty is hard and sometimes impossible to achieve. A basketball coach COULD lose every single game for 100 games straight and then win 100 games straight. Highly unlikely but it is still possible. Ray could lose every game for the next two years and get fired and if we had waited one more year he could win the National Championship. Never know though because he would be fired. You don't have to get every soldier killed before you realize you've lost the fight. Might be best to save a few soldiers for the next fight.

Just say "too early to judge is too early to judge" then instead of trying to give value to Ray for Cohen making a title series. Don't act like you don't do this either. You do. A lot. "Too early to judge is too early to make a final ruling" is what you should be saying. We can judge Ray all we like at this point. Won't change Stricklin from giving him this year and probably next year too. I think we should talk about the signs when we see them instead of sweeping them under the rug and saying "too early to judge is too early to judge". And I didn't take a year long hiatus during Cohen's second season. I just didn't post much about baseball that year because it was obvious we were going to suck no matter what. Just like I would of with Ray during his first season if he hadn't of let the roster get so damn depleted that we only had 6 fu@king players in Maui. That is when the red flags started popping up for me. Tennessee added 8 players in 3 weeks. Auburn added 6 new players in a month with a coach that isn't even allowed to recruit off campus right now. Auburn has shit basketball history compared to MSU. Those two coaches had a plan in place immediately as soon as they took over. We are still trying to figure out a plan.

[Dawg61]

Malik Newman was a freshman in HS when Stansbury got fired. Are we really counting his "top 5" when he's not legal to drive? Please show me where Nych Smith is considered a "top 2015 recruit". He's listed as a 3* 78rated player. That's far from calling him a "top recruit".

[C222]

Malik Newman was a freshman in HS when Stansbury got fired. Are we really counting his "top 5" when he's not legal to drive? Please show me where Nych Smith is considered a "top 2015 recruit". He's listed as a 3* 78rated player. That's far from calling him a "top recruit".

Yeah, not sure what other top 2015 recruit he is talking about. Recruiting definitely needs to pick up.

[Sandman14]

I really don't know why some of you so willingly set yourselves up to potentially look like hysterical idiots down the road. Not saying you won't be right in the end, but no one on the other side is saying with certainty that Ray is going to start winning and get us a natty in the next few years. And how the hell did a man who's had no association with our program in over two years get dragged into yet another basketball thread? Can that please be made a bannable offense, whether it's good or bad?

#1 - Calling for bannings is an automatic sign of the size of one's testicles, remember that.

#2 - To answer your question, you'll need to ask the person who did it. Just making sure you realize that person is not me. It's the one whining about the awful situation Ray walked into THREE YEARS AGO.

#3 - I'm glad you aren't saying I won't be right. I have news for you: I will be right. Maybe I'm just intuitive like that, but I've witnessed enough data. I'm right. But then again, I was right the day Ray was hired, at which time I was operating off of common sense. Now I'm judging strictly based on Ray's two-year track record at MSU.

#4 - Who's talking about "nattys"? I just want to go back to winning 20 games every season rather than getting the breaks beat off of us.

[Coach34]

Malik Newman was a freshman in HS when Stansbury got fired. Are we really counting his "top 5" when he's not legal to drive? Please show me where Nych Smith is considered a "top 2015 recruit". He's listed as a 3* 78rated player. That's far from calling him a "top recruit".

Malik was the #1 freshman in the country Stands last season and was widely expected to be a top recruit. Horatio told people there was no way he'd let Malik play for Stands. 0% chance.

[Dawg61]

Malik was the #1 freshman in the country Stands last season and was widely expected to be a top recruit. Horatio told people there was no way he'd let Malik play for Stands. 0% chance.

Ok and Stansbury was fired. So besides the fired coach that coached Malik's daddy who obviously has a personal beef with him literally any other coach we would of hired would most likely be in Newman's top 5. No points awarded for being in his top 3 even. Y'all are ignoring all the advantages MSU offers Newman here that no other school in the country can offer him. Land him and major points are awarded and probably a contract extension too. Maybe.

[Sandman14]

Stansbury also built his team for 8 years prior to getting the head job -- and still didn't make the NCAAs until year 4.

It's lovely how easy it is to define a Stansbury apologist by the data he uses to define what Stans did here. "20 wins" = "I'm still butt hurt -- and a prime candidate for one of the guys that's sabotaging Ray"

That 21 wins and first round out of the NIT with Two first round NBA players -- another in the league as a free agent currently -- along with a former national #1 recruit -- should say all there is to say. But somehow, to you, it doesn't.

Yep!!1!1 Getting Malik = Getting Lebron!!1!1 Idiot. It took you one post in the last 3 months to remind me why I have to click "view post" every time I'm feeling like reading axe-grinding basketball stupidity. Looking forward to coach banning you again.


Ok now this is another good example of vacuous rabble signifying only one thing: testicle size. We have another plea for a ban. That's automatic "uncle." Straight tap out. Crying to Mumma.

But before I go, let me drop some reality on you for a second:

If getting 20 wins is so easy, why can't Ray get more than 14 in at least one of two years?

Also, who among us wouldn't immediately trade (without any hesitation whatsoever) our current coach and his unskilled yet hard-working (allegedly) roster for Stansbury and a borderline NCAA tournament team consisting of 3 NBA players?

Finally, on the Lebron/Kobe exaggeration, it's obviously meant as an absurd remark to demonstrate the absurdity of all this back patting going on for the recruitment (not signing, mind you) of a Mississippi player. Wake me up when Ray signs his first good player ever. And when I say "good," I'm referring to the type of guys Stansbury brought in on a regular basis--4 and 5 star top ranked recruits--who were the backbone of his run as the alltime greatest basketball coach of MSU, winning 21 games as a borderline tourney team in his last season.

I noticed I got green bump for my comments in this thread. It should serve as a reminder that just because you don't like someone else's opinion, that doesn't mean others feel the same way.


"What is objectionable, what is dangerous about extremists, is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents."

[AROB44]

the alltime greatest basketball coach of MSU is Babe McCarthy. Not taking anything away from Stansbury, but I think Babe was the greatest.

[shannondawg]

Horatio sure as hell spent a lot of time at the Mize, which if he was going around mouthing off about Stansbury , I don't believe that would be the case. So that really doesn't seem to add up..

Besides, when Stans left for TAM , he stopped and visited with the family in Jackson on the way to College Station.

That's about all I got to say about this situation.. But I just can't stand to see things that are said as fact, being absolutely untrue and not say something..

[Dawg61]

Horatio sure as hell spent a lot of time at the Mize, which if he was going around mouthing off about Stansbury , I don't believe that would be the case. So that really doesn't seem to add up..

Besides, when Stans left for TAM , he stopped and visited with the family in Jackson on the way to College Station.

That's about all I got to say about this situation.. But I just can't stand to see things that are said as fact, being absolutely untrue and not say something..

You really should post more often

[Coach34]

Horatio sure as hell spent a lot of time at the Mize, which if he was going around mouthing off about Stansbury , I don't believe that would be the case. So that really doesn't seem to add up..

Besides, when Stans left for TAM , he stopped and visited with the family in Jackson on the way to College Station.

That's about all I got to say about this situation.. But I just can't stand to see things that are said as fact, being absolutely untrue and not say something..

what I said is indeed fact and came from one of his teammates. Horatio can still love State and visit without caring for Stands.

[shannondawg]

He was visiting with Stans every time I saw him.

Which teammate?

[preachermatt83]

my feelings about this entire thread can be summed up simply....

http://myreactiongifs.com/gifs/dontgothere.gif

[shannondawg]

Yeah but you are here n posting.

[Dawg61]

http://i.imgur.com/y8TvNgA.gif

[shannondawg]

Thinking the same thing 61.

[engie]

Well, if he was as tight with Stans as a bunch of you pretend -- why isn't the crystal ball predicting Malik to aTm now?

[shannondawg]

Well, if he was as tight with Stans as a bunch of you pretend -- why isn't the crystal ball predicting Malik to aTm now?

For the self professed smartest guy on the board, that reply is just plain dumb.

[engie]

For the self professed smartest guy on the board, that reply is just plain dumb.

Where has that been "self-professed"?

What is so dumb about it?

Were you not the one saying Stans landing in the SEC would be MSU's worst nightmare? When and where does this nightmare occur?

[shannondawg]

Where has that been "self-professed"?

What is so dumb about it?

Were you not the one saying Stans landing in the SEC would be MSU's worst nightmare? When and where does this nightmare occur?

!. Read your own damm posts and you will see where that comes from.

2. Numerous reasons.

3. No.

[engie]

!. Read your own damm posts and you will see where that comes from.
K


2. Numerous reasons.
So numerous that you don't care to list them?


3. No.
That must have been your doppelganger Geezer then. My apologies.

[Coach34]

Well to be fair Engie- I think Geezer only meant that when Stands was a shoo-in to get the Auburn job. Ya know- because he had Pollard locked up and all. Geezer told us repeatedly about all the offers Stands had- interesting that he took an assistant job instead of all those HC offers

[shannondawg]

Well to be fair Engie- I think Geezer only meant that when Stands was a shoo-in to get the Auburn job. Ya know- because he had Pollard locked up and all. Geezer told us repeatedly about all the offers Stands had- interesting that he took an assistant job instead of all those HC offers

Actually as far as Pollard was concerned, Stans arranged for him to go to Houston, in return get Houston to release a player that they were not going to transfer to another Texas school, to allow him to transfer to TAM. Whether it came about or not , I don't know. At the time they didn't have a slot for him, and I haven't really bothered to find out.

The Auburn job was very close to being Stans, but they made a second run at Pearl. I do think he turned down a directional school which one escapes me right now.

Stans is in a very good situation in my opinion. He is fired up and will make them a good hire. I'm sure it will take him sometime to get established, but I sure wouldn't count him out..

Engie: No need to apologize, its a message board, but thanks.

#1. Its a different school, and other things also come into play, he is now a an asst coach, never said Malik was a lock, just that Horatio and he were friends, and didn't think Horatio would be going and mouthing off about "no way he would allow his son to play for Stansbury" kind of talk..If indeed what folk on the board are saying that Horatio wants him close, TAM is too far away. Just those kind of reasons...

[Sandman14]

Hilarious that coach and engie are poking jabs at Stansbury taking a job at TAMU after he's been a serious candidate for Tennessee and Auburn. Guy's all over the place, in every discussion round the SEC, and we have won 7 SEC games in two years. Ray will be working up a sweat as my valet in 5 years. Or maybe getting my egg mcmfuffin on a Saturday morning. Guy's a nobody who's never won a thing and can't even average 4 SEC wins a season in an era when the SEC has been as putrid as ever in history. He's gonna break the record for worst SEC basketball coach of all time. And we have engie and gene, er, coach pumping sunshine. insane.

[thf24]

Hilarious that coach and engie are poking jabs at Stansbury taking a job at TAMU after he's been a serious candidate for Tennessee and Auburn. Guy's all over the place, in every discussion round the SEC, and we have won 7 SEC games in two years. Ray will be working up a sweat as my valet in 5 years. Or maybe getting my egg mcmfuffin on a Saturday morning. Guy's a nobody who's never won a thing and can't even average 4 SEC wins a season in an era when the SEC has been as putrid as ever in history. He's gonna break the record for worst SEC basketball coach of all time. And we have engie and gene, er, coach pumping sunshine. insane.

I can understand most of the harsher things said by the more vocal posters on this basketball issue because as we're passionate about our sports and it gets frustrating when others don't see it our individual ways. But this post is just downright hateful. Did Ray run over your dog or something? I don't care how bad you think he's been, it's disgraceful to say these kinds of things about a current representative of our university.

[I seen it dawg]

Hilarious that coach and engie are poking jabs at Stansbury taking a job at TAMU after he's been a serious candidate for Tennessee and Auburn. Guy's all over the place, in every discussion round the SEC, and we have won 7 SEC games in two years. Ray will be working up a sweat as my valet in 5 years. Or maybe getting my egg mcmfuffin on a Saturday morning. Guy's a nobody who's never won a thing and can't even average 4 SEC wins a season in an era when the SEC has been as putrid as ever in history. He's gonna break the record for worst SEC basketball coach of all time. And we have engie and gene, er, coach pumping sunshine. insane.

Somehow your ban ran out. Obvious oversight.

[CadaverDawg]

Hilarious that coach and engie are poking jabs at Stansbury taking a job at TAMU after he's been a serious candidate for Tennessee and Auburn. Guy's all over the place, in every discussion round the SEC, and we have won 7 SEC games in two years. Ray will be working up a sweat as my valet in 5 years. Or maybe getting my egg mcmfuffin on a Saturday morning. Guy's a nobody who's never won a thing and can't even average 4 SEC wins a season in an era when the SEC has been as putrid as ever in history. He's gonna break the record for worst SEC basketball coach of all time. And we have engie and gene, er, coach pumping sunshine. insane.

http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/gary-oldman-you-suck.gif

[War Machine Dawg]

Somehow your ban ran out. Obvious oversight.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj252/BOAST07/Memes%20and%20GIFS/di-V40Y_zps6d3afdc3.gif (http://s274.photobucket.com/user/BOAST07/media/Memes%20and%20GIFS/di-V40Y_zps6d3afdc3.gif.html)