Question for the board. While at MSU, did you have $1000 a month spending money?

[curmudgeon]

on top of having meals and tuition/university expenses paid for, did you have $1000 a month to spend?

I didn't, and no one I knew did.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jeremy-fowler/24625209/ole-miss-bo-wallace-shabazz-napier-was-right-players-go-hungry-at-night

When asked about player rights and what's important to him, Wallace said a $1,000 scholarship check barely gets players through the month. They need more, he says.

[Drugdog]

$399.50. Frat, gas, food, rent.
I did work at Doug's and the Landing too.

[curmudgeon]

So Bo Wallace is out complaining that players go hungry and receive $1000/month. Not going to get sympathy from the average college student. Their housing is paid for as well.

[mstatefan91]

I think he's saying that they get $1000 a semester and that that barely gets them through a month.

[Big4Dawg]

Maybe he should stop paying the $20 dollar cover every Friday & Saturday night at the Library and $50 bar tab.

Who am I kidding, we know they all get in free and don't pay for drinks anyway.

[BrunswickDawg]

Yes - but only because I worked at Woody's in Columbus 3-4 nights a week and made some serious bank on tips

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

They should get more.

[BulldogDX55]

I wouldn't be shocked if that $1000 includes rent too.

[msstate7]

Nope. Worked at 12-25 amoco

[codeDawg]

on top of having meals and tuition/university expenses paid for, did you have $1000 a month to spend?

I didn't, and no one I knew did.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jeremy-fowler/24625209/ole-miss-bo-wallace-shabazz-napier-was-right-players-go-hungry-at-night

When asked about player rights and what's important to him, Wallace said a $1,000 scholarship check barely gets players through the month. They need more, he says.

How many dollars did you bring in for the university?

[hailmari]

By the time I paid for my rent, electricity, and groceries, I had enough left over for canned tuna.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

Yep, post 911 GI Bill is the shit.

[Political Hack]

Since when the hell did America decide to give "just enough to make it" in return for someone's hard work? "Do they have enough to live on" is a terrible way to frame this debate. Anyone buying into that has lost all sense of the free market economy. The question should be "are they being fairly compensated considering the amount of revenue that they're generating the university?" That's the issue.

[Political Hack]

y'all know what indentured servitude is?

[Jack Lambert]

How many dollars did you bring in for the university?

I brought in about $35,000.00. It didn't matter if Bo was on their team or not, the same boosters were going to donate money and buy tickets. I am 100% sure Bo Wallace did not boost ticket sells.

[starkvegasdawg]

on top of having meals and tuition/university expenses paid for, did you have $1000 a month to spend?

I didn't, and no one I knew did.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jeremy-fowler/24625209/ole-miss-bo-wallace-shabazz-napier-was-right-players-go-hungry-at-night

When asked about player rights and what's important to him, Wallace said a $1,000 scholarship check barely gets players through the month. They need more, he says.

Ramen noodles and Natural Light are stereotypcial food and drink for college students for a reason.

[Political Hack]

I brought in about $35,000.00. It didn't matter if Bo was on their team or not, the same boosters were going to donate money and buy tickets. I am 100% sure Bo Wallace did not boost ticket sells.

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have a game without a QB. It's like saying you shouldn't earn a salary at your job because you're not the only person in the world who can fill that role.

[LC Dawg]

Hell, I've got two kids in college and another in high school so I don't have $1000 a month spending money presently.
That being said, I do support the athletes receiving a little more for what they do. I don't think saying you can barely make it a month on $1000 spending money is a good way to go about making this point.

[jalakin]

I'm sorry but I call bullshit on their whining about needing more money. I played club rugby that i paid money for while recieving a measly $400 dollar stipend with my ROTC scholarship and working for whatever extra money I needed for food, utilities etc. Surely $1000 can cover their needs and much more, especially since they get some food through football. I subsisted on far less money while having much more of my time dedicated to rugby, ROTC, and working.

[Political Hack]

yall are buying into the argument of "do they have enough to live in." That's an absurd perspective.

[FISHDAWG]

he's right IMO ... but all he is doing is letting his request be known to the boosters ....I wonder if they even care now that he's already aboard and has no recourse for reprisal ... that's the thing about the easy money, once it's to late to do anything about it the allowance slows down .....ok, I don't know what I'm talking about but that's the way it is with other life issues

[CadaverDawg]

Enough to live on? Hell yes.

Enough for a semester's worth of drugs and cough syrup? There's Bo's issue

[codeDawg]

I brought in about $35,000.00. It didn't matter if Bo was on their team or not, the same boosters were going to donate money and buy tickets. I am 100% sure Bo Wallace did not boost ticket sells.

If there were not rules saying that he absolutely can't get paid, I guarantee you Bo Dirt would be making a lot more money than the cost of his education and his little stipend. The free market is not being allowed to work and kids are being taken advantage of.

The SEC and the other power 5 conferences agree too. That's why they are pushing either towards freedom to make their own rules or division IV.

Everyone's bitching about athletes getting paid is just sour grapes because someone might get something they can't get themselves. Sports is a huge industry that makes a ton of money. You contribute to it by paying for tickets or ESPN on your cable bill, so you shouldn't cry about athletes that make more money than you. I'm sorry if your job is shitty and you had to pay for your own school. Learn how to run fast or throw a football if you hate it so much.

[codeDawg]

I'm sorry but I call bullshit on their whining about needing more money. I played club rugby that i paid money for while recieving a measly $400 dollar stipend with my ROTC scholarship and working for whatever extra money I needed for food, utilities etc. Surely $1000 can cover their needs and much more, especially since they get some food through football. I subsisted on far less money while having much more of my time dedicated to rugby, ROTC, and working.

I'm sure rugby was tough, but I'm not sure that it compares in revenue.

[Intramural All-American]

Serious question, how would you pay "student-athletes"? And by that, I mean, how would you determine how much to pay each athlete?

[curmudgeon]

How many dollars did you bring in for the university?

Zero. If we start paying college athletes beyond scholarships/food/living etc. MSU and college football has lost a fan and a donor.

[curmudgeon]

Yep, post 911 GI Bill is the shit.

Thank you for your service. No issues funding your education and more.

[PMDawg]

y'all know what indentured servitude is?

Dumbest thing I've heard all year. You don't like it, don't sign up. Don't get a free college education. It's a choice. You don't like it, pick a different path in life.

[Jack Lambert]

If there were not rules saying that he absolutely can't get paid, I guarantee you Bo Dirt would be making a lot more money than the cost of his education and his little stipend. The free market is not being allowed to work and kids are being taken advantage of.

The SEC and the other power 5 conferences agree too. That's why they are pushing either towards freedom to make their own rules or division IV.

Everyone's bitching about athletes getting paid is just sour grapes because someone might get something they can't get themselves. Sports is a huge industry that makes a ton of money. You contribute to it by paying for tickets or ESPN on your cable bill, so you shouldn't cry about athletes that make more money than you. I'm sorry if your job is shitty and you had to pay for your own school. Learn how to run fast or throw a football if you hate it so much.

I will say it again, Bo Wallace did not boost ticket sells. Ole Miss would have gotten same amount of money if he had never came to Ole Miss.

[curmudgeon]

They are students. They are allowed to decline the scholarship and go work a minimum wage job if they want.

[Jack Lambert]

Serious question, how would you pay "student-athletes"? And by that, I mean, how would you determine how much to pay each athlete?

And which ones would get paid?

If they do start paying players it should be based on Merit. For example: Everyone starts off with 5,000 for being on the team. If you start you get another 1000.00 for every start. If you just get into the game you get 100.00. However if you fumble the ball you lose 100.00. If you miss a tackle you lose 100.00. If you screw up and the screw up cost us the game you lose 2000.00. If you get a penalty you lose 100.00.

[PMDawg]

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have a game without a QB. It's like saying you shouldn't earn a salary at your job because you're not the only person in the world who can fill that role.

No, it's like complaining that you only make $35,000. Go find a better job or get yourself in a better position to do so.

[Intramural All-American]

You start paying athletes, and you open up pandora's box.

[PMDawg]

If there were not rules saying that he absolutely can't get paid, I guarantee you Bo Dirt would be making a lot more money than the cost of his education and his little stipend. The free market is not being allowed to work and kids are being taken advantage of.

The SEC and the other power 5 conferences agree too. That's why they are pushing either towards freedom to make their own rules or division IV.

Everyone's bitching about athletes getting paid is just sour grapes because someone might get something they can't get themselves. Sports is a huge industry that makes a ton of money. You contribute to it by paying for tickets or ESPN on your cable bill, so you shouldn't cry about athletes that make more money than you. I'm sorry if your job is shitty and you had to pay for your own school. Learn how to run fast or throw a football if you hate it so much.

Ironic much? lol So funny they act like this is all a surprise to them once they were somehow tricked or forced into this situation. I have no jealousy of these guys or guys in the NFL. I am tired of the victim attitude in America. That's the thing about us. Opportunities abound, go make your own and quit crying that the only reason you couldn't is become you've been taken advantage of or somehow victimized.

[curmudgeon]

This "guys go to bed hungry" crap gets on my nerves. They could go over to any of their hundreds of friends homes, go to any coaches' house, and probably go to a few restaurants and get food if they are hungry.

Its complete crap because they aren't too far from kids that really go to bed hungry and are some of the poorest in America.

[Political Hack]

Dumbest thing I've heard all year. You don't like it, don't sign up. Don't get a free college education. It's a choice. You don't like it, pick a different path in life.

you're not using your noodle very well. you could say the same thing about the indentured servants.

[Political Hack]

This "guys go to bed hungry" crap gets on my nerves. They could go over to any of their hundreds of friends homes, go to any coaches' house, and probably go to a few restaurants and get food if they are hungry.

Its complete crap because they aren't too far from kids that really go to bed hungry and are some of the poorest in America.

you've obviously never been close with any college athletes.

[curmudgeon]

Don't care. If they were truly hungry, they could get food in a college town - at a church even.

Its pandering and its bullshit.

[codeDawg]

No, it's like complaining that you only make $35,000. Go find a better job or get yourself in a better position to do so.

Here is the problem. The NCAA does not allow you to do that. They dominate the market in two ways:
1. They control their costs by not having to pay their athletes fair market value which:
2. Creates a barrier to entry for any development league that might compete for the same players

Because they dominate the market, there are no alternatives. You take what you get, which right now is a scholarship, some food, and a few bucks.

I don't care what they get paid, as long as they are allowed to negotiate it. If they negotiate a shitty deal, that's their problem.

[codeDawg]

Don't care. If they were truly hungry, they could get food in a college town - at a church even.

Its pandering and its bullshit.

Are you seriously suggesting that on a team of kids that generate over $1,000,000 in revenue for schools go to a soup kitchen to eat?

[codeDawg]

Serious question, how would you pay "student-athletes"? And by that, I mean, how would you determine how much to pay each athlete?

How? You let them negotiate it. Let economics work out the rest. They will get paid what the market will bear.

[Political Hack]

You start paying athletes, and you open up pandora's box.

I know. that whole pro sports thing is cray-cray.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

So can you "fire" them if they are not providing the wanted return on investment?

[curmudgeon]

If they are hungry, yes. But I doubt the claims that there is widespread hunger in Division I athletics. The NCAA now allows for unlimited meals. I thought three a day was enough.

Within a couple years, you are going to see executive chef types hired at schools as a recruiting tool. 20 years ago, there were at least two SEC head coaches that lived in dorms and most assistant coaches lived in dorms. We have ruined college football. This will kill it.

[BulldogDX55]

Serious question, how would you pay "student-athletes"? And by that, I mean, how would you determine how much to pay each athlete?

There is a documentary on Netflix called "Schooled: The Price of College Sports" that all of you should watch before commenting on this so that you can have all of the facts. It really seems that the fairest way to do this is to give scholarship athletes "total cost of attendance," which basically gives them a stipend based on how expensive the area the college is located in.


So can you "fire" them if they are not providing the wanted return on investment?

They already can. Scholarships are year to year.

[Intramural All-American]

I know. that whole pro sports thing is cray-cray.

Yea because pro sports teams have 300+ athletes that they would have to pay, right? By your logic, baseball players, women's basketball, and every other athlete other than football should have to pay back money to the university because they are not garnering revenue, they are losing it.

[EdDawg]

If student athletes are paid in college, where does it stop? There are high schools that make money on football. Do those high schools then have to pay players? I know that's pretty rare around Mississippi but think about high school football in Texas.

[Jack Lambert]

So can you "fire" them if they are not providing the wanted return on investment?

Also would they be subject to tax? Would they be state employees with benefits? Would they pay into the State Retirement? Could they then have to be fired for using drugs? Would going to class be consider going to work and could you dock their pay if they missed practice or class?

If they want it they should be treated like every other MSU employee.

[codeDawg]

So can you "fire" them if they are not providing the wanted return on investment?

The framework for how players are compensated and treated needs to be rewritten, but with the players involved in the process instead of the schools dictating it. If terminations are part of what is negotiated, then so be it.

You all are way too focused on the details of how it would go. It's simpler than that. These kids are people generating a ridiculous amount of money. They should be allowed to negotiate the terms under which they play. Some with get more, and some will get less, but that's fine as long as it is an agreement instead of a directive.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

How? You let them negotiate it. Let economics work out the rest. They will get paid what the market will bear.

What market? Are you talking about schools competing with each other in terms of salary? Could we cut a player mid-season and pick up the RB Bama just cut?

[Intramural All-American]

How? You let them negotiate it. Let economics work out the rest. They will get paid what the market will bear.

Oh so if they can't agree, then they are free agents? Then they can sign with another team? So it basically turns into European soccer where the schools with the deepest pockets get every single elite player? Man, that sounds like college football would be awesome. We find a diamond in the rough in Bernardrick McKinney. Oh look, he blows up into an All-American and wants more money. Guess what, we don't have it, so Bernardrick Mckinney now becomes the starting LB at Alabama. That would be awesome**.

[EdDawg]

How about forego the 5 years to play 4 rule? Great we just invented the NFL***

[Johnson85]

yall are buying into the argument of "do they have enough to live in." That's an absurd perspective.

What's absurd is a college athlete making that argument. They are not going hungry. They just don't have as much money as they would like. No doubt it's bull shit that schools can collude to limit pay without having to negotiate with a players' union, but they need to stick with the argument that they are performing a job that brings in a lot of money, and there is no reason they shouldn't be paid other than misplaced romanticism regarding amateurism that is a holdover from when royals viewed working for money as low class and inheriting money was the honorable way to receive money.

That will garner a little less sympathy at first, but garnering a little sympathy from stupid people doesn't help when anybody that looks into it realizes the starving claims are BS.

[Intramural All-American]

The framework for how players are compensated and treated needs to be rewritten, but with the players involved in the process instead of the schools dictating it. If terminations are part of what is negotiated, then so be it.

You all are way too focused on the details of how it would go. It's simpler than that. These kids are people generating a ridiculous amount of money. They should be allowed to negotiate the terms under which they play. Some with get more, and some will get less, but that's fine as long as it is an agreement instead of a directive.

It absolutely is not simple. That is the issue here.

[curmudgeon]

and If you pay the starting QB, say, a $500 monthly stipend. Not only does the third string punter get the same, but the bench warming volleyball player gets it.

It will ruin college sports. I'd be for an NFL minor league system that pulled from high schools before this.

[PMDawg]

Here is the problem. The NCAA does not allow you to do that. They dominate the market in two ways:
1. They control their costs by not having to pay their athletes fair market value which:
2. Creates a barrier to entry for any development league that might compete for the same players

Because they dominate the market, there are no alternatives. You take what you get, which right now is a scholarship, some food, and a few bucks.

I don't care what they get paid, as long as they are allowed to negotiate it. If they negotiate a shitty deal, that's their problem.

Way off. It's easy to solve, but it doesn't play into the victim mentality. allow them to test the water with the NFL once with no penalty and come back if you're not drafted. Guarantee a free degree at any time they desire (leave early for nfl, come back 10 years later, still free up to 5 years of tuition, room, and board), and adopt the one and done rule. Boom. Suddenly they're worth their free market value should they choose to pursue it.

College athletics has always been simply a way to allow kids to get a free education. People want to turn it into more because now they (the schools) have money. But let's don't act like the players don't reap the benefits. They may not get cash, but they get a shit pile of stuff that cash bought.

[codeDawg]

Oh so if they can't agree, then they are free agents? Then they can sign with another team? So it basically turns into European soccer where the schools with the deepest pockets get every single elite player? Man, that sounds like college football would be awesome. We find a diamond in the rough in Bernardrick McKinney. Oh look, he blows up into an All-American and wants more money. Guess what, we don't have it, so Bernardrick Mckinney now becomes the starting LB at Alabama. That would be awesome**.

All right, now we're getting somewhere. Like I was saying the framework has to be rewritten with the players at the table. Pro sports have been dealing with these issues for decades. You have to balance the fan experience, with the balance sheet of the schools, with the demands of the athletes. Absolutely, you have to put in compensation caps, restrictions on transfers, etc.

I think all of you are being selfish because you don't want something you like to change, no matter how unfair it is to others. "It's hard", or "it's too complicated" are not arguments for treating other people badly. I'm sorry if you don't like athletes making more money than you, or if you work hard for crap pay, or if you just want to pay the same amount for a ticket no matter what happens to the people who are working hard to entertain you. It's all a selfish, shitty way to look at the world.

[PMDawg]

And it's even simpler than that. "Here is the deal johnny, you can play football for free tuition, room and board." "Well that's not really the deal I'd like" . "Sorry johnny, that's all I can offer. You know you don't HAVE to play, right?" You can pay for your own education and become a Dr or some shit and negotiate your own deal in that field" the end. Not that hard. Don't like the deal? Don't play. Think you can go pro and make millions? Prove it for 3 years and then sign your dream contract. Sounds fair to me.

[codeDawg]

Way off. It's easy to solve, but it doesn't play into the victim mentality. allow them to test the water with the NFL once with no penalty and come back if you're not drafted. Guarantee a free degree at any time they desire (leave early for nfl, come back 10 years later, still free up to 5 years of tuition, room, and board), and adopt the one and done rule. Boom. Suddenly they're worth their free market value should they choose to pursue it.

College athletics has always been simply a way to allow kids to get a free education. People want to turn it into more because now they (the schools) have money. But let's don't act like the players don't reap the benefits. They may not get cash, but they get a shit pile of stuff that cash bought.

The NFL doesn't want the kids before they are 21. It's an NFL rule, not an NCAA rule.

The problem is with the NCAA dominating the market and not allowing athletes a seat at the table. End of story.

[PMDawg]

All right, now we're getting somewhere. Like I was saying the framework has to be rewritten with the players at the table. Pro sports have been dealing with these issues for decades. You have to balance the fan experience, with the balance sheet of the schools, with the demands of the athletes. Absolutely, you have to put in compensation caps, restrictions on transfers, etc.

I think all of you are being selfish because you don't want something you like to change, no matter how unfair it is to others. "It's hard", or "it's too complicated" are not arguments for treating other people badly. I'm sorry if you don't like athletes making more money than you, or if you work hard for crap pay, or if you just want to pay the same amount for a ticket no matter what happens to the people who are working hard to entertain you. It's all a selfish, shitty way to look at the world.

Straw man bull shit argument. Come up with something better.

[PMDawg]

The NFL doesn't want the kids before they are 21. It's an NFL rule, not an NCAA rule.

The problem is with the NCAA dominating the market and not allowing athletes a seat at the table. End of story.

NFL and NCAA can and do work together. They would have to here. Easily done. End of that story.

You don't like the current set up, go start a new league and pay them whatever you want. That's how the free market works. There's a demand, supply it. End of that story.

What this boils down to IS jealousy. You're right about that. People see all this money and they want to figure out how they can get some of it. No more, no less.

[PMDawg]

The NFL doesn't want the kids before they are 21. It's an NFL rule, not an NCAA rule.

The problem is with the NCAA dominating the market and not allowing athletes a seat at the table. End of story.

So if the nfl doesn't want them, what's their fair market value? Sounds like 0.

[Johnson85]

and If you pay the starting QB, say, a $500 monthly stipend. Not only does the third string punter get the same, but the bench warming volleyball player gets it.

It will ruin college sports. I'd be for an NFL minor league system that pulled from high schools before this.

You would not have to pay the third string punter and a volley ball player the same thing. There would have to be something done about Title IX, but otherwise you could set up tiers, just like in every other professional sport.

[codeDawg]

So if the nfl doesn't want them, what's their fair market value? Sounds like 0.

Read a few posts back. The issue is that the NCAA has a monopoly on the pre-NFL market. They restrict compensation in the market by putting in place rules that don't allow the players to negotiate the terms of their work, and create a barrier to entry by having next to free labor. There are no alternatives for the kids.

[Johnson85]

NFL and NCAA can and do work together. They would have to here. Easily done. End of that story.

You don't like the current set up, go start a new league and pay them whatever you want. That's how the free market works. There's a demand, supply it. End of that story.

What this boils down to IS jealousy. You're right about that. People see all this money and they want to figure out how they can get some of it. No more, no less.

Generally free markets have rules against collusion. Sports leagues are a special case because you have to have some collusion to agree on the rules of the game and such, but that doesn't allow teams to agree not to compete for players. Not entirely sure but I think the way most professional leagues get around this is by negotiating witha players union. If the players weren't unionized, I think they'd be subject to an anti-trust suit.

[codeDawg]

NFL and NCAA can and do work together. They would have to here. Easily done. End of that story.

You don't like the current set up, go start a new league and pay them whatever you want. That's how the free market works. There's a demand, supply it. End of that story.

What this boils down to IS jealousy. You're right about that. People see all this money and they want to figure out how they can get some of it. No more, no less.

Absolutely they want the money. They are the ones earning it. If every employer in your industry put a cap on your compensation way below what you could earn otherwise, how would you feel?

[preachermatt83]

I brought in about $35,000.00. It didn't matter if Bo was on their team or not, the same boosters were going to donate money and buy tickets. I am 100% sure Bo Wallace did not boost ticket sells.

I agree with this 200 percent...

[Intramural All-American]

The thing is, the tiered thing is not the solution to the current problem. Players want due compensation for what they are making the schools, not a little more spending money. I personally would not have a problem with athletes getting some more money. But are you paying players for their time put in and their inability to get side jobs, or are you paying them for the revenue they are bringing in to the university? If you pick option A, then every single athlete from football to women's golf would require the same stipend. If you pick option 2, then women golfers would have to pay the university.

These players are using the excuse that they are "hungry", but their goal is to get much more money than just extra food money.

[Intramural All-American]

Absolutely they want the money. They are the ones earning it. If every employer in your industry put a cap on your compensation way below what you could earn otherwise, how would you feel?

There's a salary cap in the NBA. Someone had to set that arbitrary number. There's also a salary cap in the NCAA, a full scholarship. Someone also had to set that arbitrary number. What is the difference?

[codeDawg]

There's a salary cap in the NBA. Someone had to set that arbitrary number. There's also a salary cap in the NCAA, a full scholarship. Someone also had to set that arbitrary number. What is the difference?

The players association negotiated the the salary cap in the NBA. The NCAA mandated the college rules.

The argument is not that players should get $X, it's that they should have a say in the terms under which they work.

[PMDawg]

Read a few posts back. The issue is that the NCAA has a monopoly on the pre-NFL market. They restrict compensation in the market by putting in place rules that don't allow the players to negotiate the terms of their work, and create a barrier to entry by having next to free labor. There are no alternatives for the kids.

Read a few posts back. Create a new market if you don't like it. Someone probably will soon enough.

[PMDawg]

Absolutely they want the money. They are the ones earning it. If every employer in your industry put a cap on your compensation way below what you could earn otherwise, how would you feel?

I would feel the need to do something in a different field. Then I would do it. But I don't have a victim attitude. That's why I have a good job with good pay and the respect of my peers and subordinates.

[Intramural All-American]

The players association negotiated the the salary cap in the NBA. The NCAA mandated the college rules.



Fair point, wasn't sure where I was going with that.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

Read a few posts back. Create a new market if you don't like it. Someone probably will soon enough.

Beat me to it. The monopoly claim is bullshit, and you could claim that colleges have a monopoly on all job fields since most career fields require a college degree now. Example, I cannot apply for a design engineering job right after I graduate from high school because I do not meet the employment criteria. The NFL requires three years out of high school so they do not meet the minimum requirements out of high school. They are free and more than welcome to go work at McDonalds and train and go for a tryout when they meet the requirements. In that scenario, they are responsible for paying trainers, promoting themselves, equipment, and so on. The money that the schools make off of them is reinvested back into them through top notch training facilities, trainers, nutritional programs, and so on.

[dawgoneyall]

Athletics do not make universities money.

[dawgs]

Oh so if they can't agree, then they are free agents? Then they can sign with another team? So it basically turns into European soccer where the schools with the deepest pockets get every single elite player? Man, that sounds like college football would be awesome. We find a diamond in the rough in Bernardrick McKinney. Oh look, he blows up into an All-American and wants more money. Guess what, we don't have it, so Bernardrick Mckinney now becomes the starting LB at Alabama. That would be awesome**.

I think anything that ends up negotiated would likely be a 3 or 4 year contract with mutual options for a 4th and/or 5th year. At least for football. Also, I'd guess transfer rules would still be in place. And if a player graduates in 3 years and doesn't want to go pro yet, he'll be able to transfer and play in a graduate program just like they can today.

The details will likely be resolved using common sense. Everyone brings up some crazy hypothetical then asks how it's gonna be dealt with. We aren't positive, but I highly doubt you'll be able to "fire" players mid semester and make free agent pick ups from other schools.

Taxes and all that will be figured out, but wondering how different issues will ultimately be handled is not a good reason not to make the right overall decision.

[dawgs]

and If you pay the starting QB, say, a $500 monthly stipend. Not only does the third string punter get the same, but the bench warming volleyball player gets it.

It will ruin college sports. I'd be for an NFL minor league system that pulled from high schools before this.

It's pretty easy to separate revenue generating from non-revenue generating sports.

[dawgs]

NFL and NCAA can and do work together. They would have to here. Easily done. End of that story.

You don't like the current set up, go start a new league and pay them whatever you want. That's how the free market works. There's a demand, supply it. End of that story.

What this boils down to IS jealousy. You're right about that. People see all this money and they want to figure out how they can get some of it. No more, no less.

I mean, I'm not saying you are comparing this to slavery, BUT I could see some 1850s plantation owner saying your last paragraph verbatim. This isn't an issue of people wanting $$ they don't have a hand in generating, this is people who are the primary reason for generating the money wanting a fair share.

If you were an awesome chef for a restuarant, do you think it'd be legal for them to pay you with free meals and a crappy twin bed in the back? Now imagine if this was just how every restuarant did business, so that you didn't have a realistic oppotunity to utilize your god given talents to find a better deal for yourself. Seem fair?

I'm betting there are a lot of money making industries out there that'd LOVE to pay their employees in free housing, free meals, and maybe some shit that those very workers made earlier in the day.

[codeDawg]

I would feel the need to do something in a different field. Then I would do it. But I don't have a victim attitude. That's why I have a good job with good pay and the respect of my peers and subordinates.

What is a victim attitude? I think some kids have the attitude that they should be allowed to have a say in what the terms of their service are. I think that's only fair.

Tucking you tail between your legs and taking whatever scraps are handed out to you is the the weak attitude in my opinion.

[Intramural All-American]

I think anything that ends up negotiated would likely be a 3 or 4 year contract with mutual options for a 4th and/or 5th year. At least for football. Also, I'd guess transfer rules would still be in place. And if a player graduates in 3 years and doesn't want to go pro yet, he'll be able to transfer and play in a graduate program just like they can today.

The details will likely be resolved using common sense. Everyone brings up some crazy hypothetical then asks how it's gonna be dealt with. We aren't positive, but I highly doubt you'll be able to "fire" players mid semester and make free agent pick ups from other schools.

Taxes and all that will be figured out, but wondering how different issues will ultimately be handled is not a good reason not to make the right overall decision.

So Johnny Manziel, who was a nobody before his RS freshman year would not have made anywhere near what an elite level player makes. But now he's just supposed to accept the small wages? How can you decide on a 4 year contract for a player that you have never seen play college football? There are far, far too many busts and too many diamonds in the rough for that to be logical. And again, if we are talking about a free market, then the players would have the rate to go wherever the highest bidder was.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

What is a victim attitude? I think some kids have the attitude that they should be allowed to have a say in what the terms of their service are. I think that's only fair.

Tucking you tail between your legs and taking whatever scraps are handed out to you is the the weak attitude in my opinion.
They have the freedom to say no and train on their own. I do not see how being provided facilities, trainers, and free advertisement is "scraps."

[dawgs]

I would feel the need to do something in a different field. Then I would do it. But I don't have a victim attitude. That's why I have a good job with good pay and the respect of my peers and subordinates.

The "victim" argument is bullshit rhetoric spewed to avoid talking about the real issues.

I disagree with you point of view and I also have a good job with good pay and the respect of my peers and subordinates and supervisors.

[dawgs]

So Johnny Manziel, who was a nobody before his RS freshman year would not have made anywhere near what an elite level player makes. But now he's just supposed to accept the small wages? How can you decide on a 4 year contract for a player that you have never seen play college football? There are far, far too many busts and too many diamonds in the rough for that to be logical. And again, if we are talking about a free market, then the players would have the rate to go wherever the highest bidder was.

Nothing in reality is a 100% free market. There are rules and regulations. Every player could have to oppotunity to negotiate performance bonuses, just like pro players negotiate performance bonuses.

But really, like codedawg has said over and over, this is primarily about just being able to be involved in the governing of CFB. Right now, players don't even have a real say in how injuries and concussions are handled. Why shouldn't they be able to sit down with the ncaa and conferences and university presidents and have a discussion about the best way to handle it?

[Intramural All-American]

Nothing in reality is a 100% free market. There are rules and regulations. Every player could have to oppotunity to negotiate performance bonuses, just like pro players negotiate performance bonuses.

But really, like codedawg has said over and over, this is primarily about just being able to be involved in the governing of CFB. Right now, players don't even have a real say in how injuries and concussions are handled. Why shouldn't they be able to sit down with the ncaa and conferences and university presidents and have a discussion about the best way to handle it?

That's BS. This is completely about players getting paid more. It always has been. Anything else is just fluff to try and pad their pay.

[Dawgcentral]

It looks to me like many are in favor of a mandate to "share the wealth".

If you're employer is wealthy, and you are not, do you demand a share of his wealth (when you are in no position to make any demands because you can be replaced), or do you choose a different path in order to generate and obtain your own wealth?

You folks talking about free market principles when it comes to college athletes on scholarship don't sound as if you've ever competed in the free market system by starting your own business, hiring and maintaining employees, and managing a workplace.

You want to help someone? Build a house and share the wealth with the bricklayer. He's not gaining a shot at a degree and financial success when his body is broken down from labor.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

The irony is, the only reason anyone is posting on this board or thread is because of football players. Scout recruiting gurus get paid 6 figures because of football players. Davis wade is being expanded because we give money to watch football.

Hotels and restaurants thrive because of football. Nobody in this thread would ever go to starkville or post on message boards without football players. They run the town, the university and make us bazillions of dollars in revenue with the sec network, suites, etc.

I dont know how to fix it or what is correct but they deserve more than someone that is getting a full ride with a 35 act. Why? When 60,000 people show up to a chemistry class, we may need to up the other students pay too.

Fact is, they cant really have jobs. They get up at 6am, workout for 2 hours , go to study hall, go to class, then practice from 4-6. They have little life. They bleed for our entertainment and they are treated like sarah elisabeth who has a full ride, all while her parents replenish her bank account monthly.

Yes, some do go hungry. Do you know how much food chris jones consumes because of the calories he burns a day? The free education is BS. Most of these guys arent there for school. If they are, it is hard to accel at a decent degree because of the time involved in football. Most of these guys arent geniuses.

Now, say an average kid that plays football for 4 years, is a backup and is guaranteed a good job after, that may be different. However, once theyre are done, nobody is paying blayne clausell 50k for a job. He will have a physical education degree, bum knees and will have to go make 25k a year coaching football. Meanwhile, he helped build a new expansion and is the only reason anyone gives a shit about returning to starkville.

Something is off.

[Bullmutt]

Several terms have been mentioned in this discussion whose validity could be questioned. One is "free market". These kids are not now in a free market. Someone above made the point that, because they can't go pro until three years past high school, they're market value at the time they sign a scholly is effectively zero. Even if that three year rule did not exist, they have no prospects of playing for pay because the vast majority have not developed and honed their talents and skills to the point of making themselves a valued commodity. The case cannot logically be made that, because Bear Wilson may someday earn $8-10 M/ year in the NFL, that he should be paid $50K or even $10 now, even if he is very productive while in school.

Another point that has not been made is the value of tutelage and training that players get. Even in the case of a freak like CJ, how much do you suppose an NFL team would offer him if he didn't have the benefit of the expert teaching and training at the hands of Collins and Turner, if he showed up at camp and just had to rely on his HS coaching and the fact that, three years prior, he had been rated at 5 stars? Wouldn't be much. I would submit that, in addition to a college scholly, he is also benefitting from what has to be many thousands of dollars worth of training in the skills of his chosen craft, the skills that will later be responsible for his success in the free market. In essence, he is investing "sweat equity" now, so that he can reap potentially huge benefits later. He should, IMHO, be viewed more as an apprentice than as an indentured servant (although there were many of those who created good equity for themselves during the early years of our country as a result of their servitude. Reference the early years of the Virginia tobacco industry).

At worst, the kid will have a college degree at the end of his career in school. It's also worth mentioning that he will also have on his resume that he played football at the largest university in his state, which can definitely be an advantage in many job markets, particularly in the sales area.

We also need to give some thought to the alternative for a lot of them. So many come from poor backgrounds. Many have nothing, and without the college football experience or a college degree will likely always have nothing. So they can expend some sweat equity for fours years and be at least somewhat assured of having a better life as an adult than they could have expected to have otherwise, or they can decide not to come play or finish college and probably go back to their hometowns and take a grunt job or hang out on the street corner being just another nobody going nowhere.

ETA Another thing to consider: Say the HS-3 year rule was thrown out, and a kid could try the pros right out of HS. What percentage would be good enough to actually make it? What happens to all those who don't?
If they were paid or otherwise given benefit of value while they went through camp, they no longer have the option to play in college. See the "hometown" option mentioned above.

For me, personally, it would be a damned easy choice.

[AROB44]

Once you start allowing collective bargaining, then everything they get (scholarship, books, etc) becomes taxable income.

[bulldawg28]

The irony is, the only reason anyone is posting on this board or thread is because of football players. Scout recruiting gurus get paid 6 figures because of football players. Davis wade is being expanded because we give money to watch football.

Hotels and restaurants thrive because of football. Nobody in this thread would ever go to starkville or post on message boards without football players. They run the town, the university and make us bazillions of dollars in revenue with the sec network, suites, etc.

I dont know how to fix it or what is correct but they deserve more than someone that is getting a full ride with a 35 act. Why? When 60,000 people show up to a chemistry class, we may need to up the other students pay too.

Fact is, they cant really have jobs. They get up at 6am, workout for 2 hours , go to study hall, go to class, then practice from 4-6. They have little life. They bleed for our entertainment and they are treated like sarah elisabeth who has a full ride, all while her parents replenish her bank account monthly.

Yes, some do go hungry. Do you know how much food chris jones consumes because of the calories he burns a day? The free education is BS. Most of these guys arent there for school. If they are, it is hard to accel at a decent degree because of the time involved in football. Most of these guys arent geniuses.

Now, say an average kid that plays football for 4 years, is a backup and is guaranteed a good job after, that may be different. However, once theyre are done, nobody is paying blayne clausell 50k for a job. He will have a physical education degree, bum knees and will have to go make 25k a year coaching football. Meanwhile, he helped build a new expansion and is the only reason anyone gives a shit about returning to starkville.

Something is off.



This. You lived it too huh?

[Johnson85]

College athletics has always been simply a way to allow kids to get a free education. People want to turn it into more because now they (the schools) have money. But let's don't act like the players don't reap the benefits. They may not get cash, but they get a shit pile of stuff that cash bought.

Wow...didn't realize we needed to pay football coaches multi-million dollars annually for kids to get a free education. The kids get some of the value they create, but nowhere near the amount they'd get in a reasonably fair negotiation. It's easy to tell that's true because schools are falling all over themselves to shuffle more money to the recruits than is allowed by the rules.

[Political Hack]

The irony is, the only reason anyone is posting on this board or thread is because of football players. Scout recruiting gurus get paid 6 figures because of football players. Davis wade is being expanded because we give money to watch football.

Hotels and restaurants thrive because of football. Nobody in this thread would ever go to starkville or post on message boards without football players. They run the town, the university and make us bazillions of dollars in revenue with the sec network, suites, etc.

I dont know how to fix it or what is correct but they deserve more than someone that is getting a full ride with a 35 act. Why? When 60,000 people show up to a chemistry class, we may need to up the other students pay too.

Fact is, they cant really have jobs. They get up at 6am, workout for 2 hours , go to study hall, go to class, then practice from 4-6. They have little life. They bleed for our entertainment and they are treated like sarah elisabeth who has a full ride, all while her parents replenish her bank account monthly.

Yes, some do go hungry. Do you know how much food chris jones consumes because of the calories he burns a day? The free education is BS. Most of these guys arent there for school. If they are, it is hard to accel at a decent degree because of the time involved in football. Most of these guys arent geniuses.

Now, say an average kid that plays football for 4 years, is a backup and is guaranteed a good job after, that may be different. However, once theyre are done, nobody is paying blayne clausell 50k for a job. He will have a physical education degree, bum knees and will have to go make 25k a year coaching football. Meanwhile, he helped build a new expansion and is the only reason anyone gives a shit about returning to starkville.

Something is off.

yep.

[Dawgcentral]

If Blaine Clausell has a physical education degree after 4-5 years at MSU, it's due to the choices he has made. It's the same situation as the bricklayer I mentioned in my above post, only the bricklayer doesn't have a 4 year degree.

These guys have a talent, and/ or the ability to let their talent pave the way for a bright financial future. Just as ANY apprentice takes the hard road and low pay toward a rewarding future, they have an opportunity to further themselves in life by paying their dues for a greater reward later.

One lesson that can be learned over those 4-5 years of hard labor os that indeed, life is not fair. life for most of us, is what we make of it. Take advantage of those opportunities to advance and expand your potential.

That's a basic life lesson that many younger folks don't seem to grasp.

[Johnson85]

It looks to me like many are in favor of a mandate to "share the wealth".

If you're employer is wealthy, and you are not, do you demand a share of his wealth (when you are in no position to make any demands because you can be replaced), or do you choose a different path in order to generate and obtain your own wealth?

You folks talking about free market principles when it comes to college athletes on scholarship don't sound as if you've ever competed in the free market system by starting your own business, hiring and maintaining employees, and managing a workplace.

You want to help someone? Build a house and share the wealth with the bricklayer. He's not gaining a shot at a degree and financial success when his body is broken down from labor.

You know people claiming athletes are already getting a fair deal are full of shit because if they believed that, they wouldn't be against letting some type of negotiation take place.

And if my employer is wealthy, I don't demand a share of his wealth. But if my employer got together with every other employer in my field and agreed that they would only offer me in-kind payments as compensation, I'd probably file a law suit.

[Johnson85]

One lesson that can be learned over those 4-5 years of hard labor os that indeed, life is not fair. life for most of us, is what we make of it. Take advantage of those opportunities to advance and expand your potential.

That's a basic life lesson that many younger folks don't seem to grasp.


Judging by our anti-trust laws on collusion by employers, it appears that most voting age adults are whiny bitches just like college players. Why do they need a law against employers colluding on wages. They should just suck it up and recognize that life's not fair.

[Dawgcentral]

You know people claiming athletes are already getting a fair deal are full of shit because if they believed that, they wouldn't be against letting some type of negotiation take place.

And if my employer is wealthy, I don't demand a share of his wealth. But if my employer got together with every other employer in my field and agreed that they would only offer me in-kind payments as compensation, I'd probably file a law suit.

You can say I'm "full of shit" all you want. Just do the math and tell me that tuition, books, meals, lodging, laundry money, entertainment, travel, possible bowl expenses, free clothing, OTHER PERKS like free meals at local eating establishments,..and all of the rest doesn't WELL surpass the typical high school graduate's lifestyle of flipping burgers or working construction at the lowest pay grade with little potential for advancement.

Now who's full of shit?

[PMDawg]

I mean, I'm not saying you are comparing this to slavery, BUT I could see some 1850s plantation owner saying your last paragraph verbatim. This isn't an issue of people wanting $$ they don't have a hand in generating, this is people who are the primary reason for generating the money wanting a fair share.

If you were an awesome chef for a restuarant, do you think it'd be legal for them to pay you with free meals and a crappy twin bed in the back? Now imagine if this was just how every restuarant did business, so that you didn't have a realistic oppotunity to utilize your god given talents to find a better deal for yourself. Seem fair?

I'm betting there are a lot of money making industries out there that'd LOVE to pay their employees in free housing, free meals, and maybe some shit that those very workers made earlier in the day.

Anyone who mentions slavery in the context isn't worth entering into discussion with. And in your Bullshit strawman situation, I wouldn't be a chef.

[Political Hack]

If Blaine Clausell has a physical education degree after 4-5 years at MSU, it's due to the choices he has made. It's the same situation as the bricklayer I mentioned in my above post, only the bricklayer doesn't have a 4 year degree.

These guys have a talent, and/ or the ability to let their talent pave the way for a bright financial future. Just as ANY apprentice takes the hard road and low pay toward a rewarding future, they have an opportunity to further themselves in life by paying their dues for a greater reward later.

One lesson that can be learned over those 4-5 years of hard labor os that indeed, life is not fair. life for most of us, is what we make of it. Take advantage of those opportunities to advance and expand your potential.

That's a basic life lesson that many younger folks don't seem to grasp.

they aren't apprentices. They're the main freaking event. It's like tell Hulk Hogan he can have some books, a room and eat free at the cafeteria in exchange for his services.

[PMDawg]

The irony is, the only reason anyone is posting on this board or thread is because of football players. Scout recruiting gurus get paid 6 figures because of football players. Davis wade is being expanded because we give money to watch football.

Hotels and restaurants thrive because of football. Nobody in this thread would ever go to starkville or post on message boards without football players. They run the town, the university and make us bazillions of dollars in revenue with the sec network, suites, etc.

I dont know how to fix it or what is correct but they deserve more than someone that is getting a full ride with a 35 act. Why? When 60,000 people show up to a chemistry class, we may need to up the other students pay too.

Fact is, they cant really have jobs. They get up at 6am, workout for 2 hours , go to study hall, go to class, then practice from 4-6. They have little life. They bleed for our entertainment and they are treated like sarah elisabeth who has a full ride, all while her parents replenish her bank account monthly.

Yes, some do go hungry. Do you know how much food chris jones consumes because of the calories he burns a day? The free education is BS. Most of these guys arent there for school. If they are, it is hard to accel at a decent degree because of the time involved in football. Most of these guys arent geniuses.

Now, say an average kid that plays football for 4 years, is a backup and is guaranteed a good job after, that may be different. However, once theyre are done, nobody is paying blayne clausell 50k for a job. He will have a physical education degree, bum knees and will have to go make 25k a year coaching football. Meanwhile, he helped build a new expansion and is the only reason anyone gives a shit about returning to starkville.

Something is off.

And the truth finally comes out. It's NOT about a free education anymore. There's the problem. That's why college athletics were created, but it's turned into a whole other beast, and you want to turn it into another whole beast.

When I played sports in HD and college, I did it because it was fun and because it helped me get an education. If you're looking for minor league football, someone should start a league. But I don't want my university's name associated with it.

[Johnson85]

You can say I'm "full of shit" all you want. Just do the math and tell me that tuition, books, meals, lodging, laundry money, entertainment, travel, possible bowl expenses, free clothing, OTHER PERKS like free meals at local eating establishments,..and all of the rest doesn't WELL surpass the typical high school graduate's lifestyle of flipping burgers or working construction at the lowest pay grade with little potential for advancement.

Now who's full of shit?

They have a better life style than a typical high school graduate that immediately enters the work force, but that's irrelevant to what I said. I said that people claiming that athletes (and really to be more accurate I should have said good athletes in revenue sports although I think everybody understands we're talking about major conference football and basketball) are already getting a fair portion of the value are full of shit, because if they really believed that, they wouldn't be against allowing some sort of negotiation (either through a players union or by preventing schools from colluding to limit compensation). If their claim was anywhere close to true, players would end up with basically the same compensation, it'd just be distributed differently with more going to good players and less to bench warmers. They know that's not what would happen, which is why most of them are against allowing players to get paid.

[Dawgcentral]

they aren't apprentices. They're the main freaking event. It's like tell Hulk Hogan he can have some books, a room and eat free at the cafeteria in exchange for his services.

They entertain. They make the choice to entertain based on what it will do for their personal agenda. They use their ability to advance their future.

The bricklayer, if he reduces your insurance by 1/3, has value. You pay what he's worth right? I wonder if many of you understand the sacrifice he makes. I wonder if many of you value the fact that roofers are going to get skin cancer due to sun exposer. How many give a flip about the wood floor guy who's knees are shot when he's 35 years old.

Those are CHOICES people make. They are risks that they take whether they are aware of them or not. The chance at a college degree from giving 4-5 years of extreme effort is not servitude, it's opportunity.

[Johnson85]

And the truth finally comes out. It's NOT about a free education anymore. There's the problem. That's why college athletics were created, but it's turned into a whole other beast, and you want to turn it into another whole beast.

When I played sports in HD and college, I did it because it was fun and because it helped me get an education. If you're looking for minor league football, someone should start a league. But I don't want my university's name associated with it.

If you don't want to cheer for a professional sports team, you shouldn't be cheering for an SEC football or basketball team. I would be perfectly happy if college football was still an amateur sport, but unfortunately, as long as there is money to be made in it, there's not really any way to keep it one.

[PMDawg]

If you don't want to cheer for a professional sports team, you shouldn't be cheering for an SEC football or basketball team. I would be perfectly happy if college football was still an amateur sport, but unfortunately, as long as there is money to be made in it, there's not really any way to keep it one.

Well it wasn't anything like that when I started watching. On top of that, I'm like curmudgeon, if they go beyond a full cost of living stipend, I'm out.

[jalakin]

The irony is, the only reason anyone is posting on this board or thread is because of football players. Scout recruiting gurus get paid 6 figures because of football players. Davis wade is being expanded because we give money to watch football.

Hotels and restaurants thrive because of football. Nobody in this thread would ever go to starkville or post on message boards without football players. They run the town, the university and make us bazillions of dollars in revenue with the sec network, suites, etc.

I dont know how to fix it or what is correct but they deserve more than someone that is getting a full ride with a 35 act. Why? When 60,000 people show up to a chemistry class, we may need to up the other students pay too.

Fact is, they cant really have jobs. They get up at 6am, workout for 2 hours , go to study hall, go to class, then practice from 4-6. They have little life. They bleed for our entertainment and they are treated like sarah elisabeth who has a full ride, all while her parents replenish her bank account monthly.

Yes, some do go hungry. Do you know how much food chris jones consumes because of the calories he burns a day? The free education is BS. Most of these guys arent there for school. If they are, it is hard to accel at a decent degree because of the time involved in football. Most of these guys arent geniuses.

Now, say an average kid that plays football for 4 years, is a backup and is guaranteed a good job after, that may be different. However, once theyre are done, nobody is paying blayne clausell 50k for a job. He will have a physical education degree, bum knees and will have to go make 25k a year coaching football. Meanwhile, he helped build a new expansion and is the only reason anyone gives a shit about returning to starkville.

Something is off.

I disagree with a lot in what you wrote. I have experience in having an unbelievably packed schedule through college from doing ROTC, Rugby, and working. I had to get up in the morning and do workouts with ROTC and go to study hall 10 hours a week with them. Then I would have Rugby practice or workouts in the evenings, and then go to work part time for extra money. The football players can absolutely work if they really needed the extra money, the vast majority just don't want to put in the time to work after everything else they do. I can't say I blame them, because I certainly didn't want to be as busy as I was, but in life you do what you have to do. Also I can understand the food part to because due to a freakish metabolism and working out a lot, I consumed over 8, 000 calories a day. I understand that athletics and football generate a ton of money for every school, but I believe that they get a hell of a lot out of it as far as free school, free room and board, free food, and a stipend for extra stuff. I had some of the same stuff due to ROTC but had to cover rent, food and everything else with my job and $400 dollar stipend, something they are lucky not to have to bust their butts doing extra work to get. So I don't have any sympathy for their supposed plight, when they are getting benefits far beyond what anyone else in college is really getting along with a top notch job opportunity and training.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Who pays for tyler russell or blaynes permanent brain injuries and long term health because of a half dozen concussions? No gpa student is getting head hunted 13 weeks a year.
Football players are not the same as regular students. They just arent.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

And the truth finally comes out. It's NOT about a free education anymore. There's the problem. That's why college athletics were created, but it's turned into a whole other beast, and you want to turn it into another whole beast.

When I played sports in HD and college, I did it because it was fun and because it helped me get an education. If you're looking for minor league football, someone should start a league. But I don't want my university's name associated with it.

I bet you werent all sec. If you want to recruit a team full of nerds that want a good education, cheer for duke.

I want grown ass men that win football games. I want them to graduate too but that isnt why we drive to starkville saturdays.

Question. How many on here go to the hump and cheer when our football players throw their hats up?

Crickets....

[jalakin]

Try playing Rugby without the benefits of Footballs helmets and pads for the university and tell me I am not a just as a risk doing that as they are, but without any of the benefits that they received while actually playing.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

You just compared rotc to sec football....

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Try playing Rugby without the benefits of Footballs helmets and pads for the university and tell me I am not a just as a risk doing that as they are, but without any of the benefits that they received while actually playing.

That is a dumb risk to me. If rugby sold out 60k seats, i think you would have an argument.

Id consider rugby, womens basketball, basically any sport not named football or basketball to be LUCKY to get scholarships. You know who they can thank for that? Yup, you guessed it, the 2 money generating sports. So dak prescott is basically paying the womens volleyball teams scholarship's.

[Dawgcentral]

Who pays for tyler russell or blaynes permanent brain injuries and long term health because of a half dozen concussions? Not gpa student is getting head hunted 13 weeks a year.
Football players are not the same as regular students. They just arent.

So, because they choose to bash heads and get concussions in order to advance their opportunity, they should get paid more than they are currently. Because they made the choice of advancing themselves through their physical potential instead of pursuing an academic future (or combining both), they should be reward for taking that risk, all the while knowing the potential for disaster. (Just like the roofer or bricklayer, only without the degree)

Real world people. Real responsibility. It's part of growing up and making decisions that effect the rest of your life. We built schools to escape ignorance, but somewhere along the way we abandoned the pursuit of enlightenment. We somehow decided that everyone deserves success, no matter which choices they make, and how they go about grasping wealth and success.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Well it wasn't anything like that when I started watching. On top of that, I'm like curmudgeon, if they go beyond a full cost of living stipend, I'm out.

A certain QB of ours didnt use to do donuts in the drill field in his NEW corvette, while drunk as shit with 3 chicks hanging out?

If you dont think payola has been going on the past 30 - 40 years, god bless you son.

That is why I laugh when old timers call these kids "thugs" for getting in a bar fight or caught with pot. The older generation wouldnt even have careers if youtube and camera phones were around in the 50-90s. I thank god every day I came before all the media that is here now and cell phones.

We laugh at crunchy mike but id bet half our senators / congressman wouldve been caught saying the same thing back in the "good ol' years".

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

And if education is the end all be all, why do teachers get paid JACK SHIT?

Yancy Porter makes more money than college professors. Let that sink in. Yup, all about education.....it is for most sports, but it simply isnt in football. Mississippi state NEEDS football. What do yall think would happen if we lost our sec football team? To the city? Enrollment? Everything.

[dawgs]

Anyone who mentions slavery in the context isn't worth entering into discussion with. And in your Bullshit strawman situation, I wouldn't be a chef.

i just said i could see the exact same justification come out of a plantation owner's mouth and it would apply perfectly to that situation too. i didn't say playing CFB was like slavery, i said the logic behind you comments was the same used to justify slavery.

[dawgs]

So, because they choose to bash heads and get concussions in order to advance their opportunity, they should get paid more than they are currently. Because they made the choice of advancing themselves through their physical potential instead of pursuing an academic future (or combining both), they should be reward for taking that risk, all the while knowing the potential for disaster. (Just like the roofer or bricklayer, only without the degree)

Real world people. Real responsibility. It's part of growing up and making decisions that effect the rest of your life. We built schools to escape ignorance, but somewhere along the way we abandoned the pursuit of enlightenment. We somehow decided that everyone deserves success, no matter which choices they make, and how they go about grasping wealth and success.

it's because you have the sec network, the big 10 network, the longhorn network, the pac 12 network, espn (and the 25 variations thereof), fox sports (and the 10 variations thereof), cbs, etc etc etc all paying millions a year to televise games with these guys in them. that's why they should probably get paid, not just because they choose to do it, but because they choose to do it and people like you and me pay damn good money to watch them do it. anyone that wants to believe college sports are still some altruistic form of amateurism really has their head buried in the sand and has for decades.

ROTC and rugby doesn't get the money flowing. jalakin was comparing himself to football players, but he misses 1 key point: his rugby and ROTC skills aren't as highly valued as a football player's. same reason a surgeon is worth more than a bricklayer, the surgeon's skills are more valuable. he may not work as hard as the bricklayer, but his skills are more valuable. college football and basketball players have a valuable skill that most of the population simply doesn't have but is willing to pay for.

grad students get a stipend in return for teaching freshmen level classes, labs, and doing research, which provides value to the university. i don't see why football and basketball players shouldn't be able to negotiate a stipend for the time they put into playing sports that generate a ton of value to the university.

[PMDawg]

A certain QB of ours didnt use to do donuts in the drill field in his NEW corvette, while drunk as shit with 3 chicks hanging out?

If you dont think payola has been going on the past 30 - 40 years, god bless you son.

That is why I laugh when old timers call these kids "thugs" for getting in a bar fight or caught with pot. The older generation wouldnt even have careers if youtube and camera phones were around in the 50-90s. I thank god every day I came before all the media that is here now and cell phones.

We laugh at crunchy mike but id bet half our senators / congressman wouldve been caught saying the same thing back in the "good ol' years".

No one knows what the hell you are even talking about.

I said college football wasn't a multi billion dollar beast 25 years ago. But by all means, keep it up.

[PMDawg]

i just said i could see the exact same justification come out of a plantation owner's mouth and it would apply perfectly to that situation too. i didn't say playing CFB was like slavery, i said the logic behind you comments was the same used to justify slavery.

And you're wrong on every account

[PMDawg]

And if education is the end all be all, why do teachers get paid JACK SHIT?


Yancy Porter makes more money than college professors. Let that sink in. Yup, all about education.....it is for most sports, but it simply isnt in football. Mississippi state NEEDS football. What do yall think would happen if we lost our sec football team? To the city? Enrollment? Everything.

Because the federal government runs our schools


Yes, universities exist solely for football. Good call.

[AROB44]

Well....I know what Ennis is talking about and so do a lot of others on this board. Except...I don't understand "crunchy mike"...but that's probably because I am older than Ennis.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

No one knows what the hell you are even talking about.

I said college football wasn't a multi billion dollar beast 25 years ago. But by all means, keep it up.

You stated that when you started watching, it certainly wasnt like that. I assume you are old.

We had a qb almost 40 years ago that was given a new corvette. My point was college football has always been dirty. Now it is big business. Our ath dept will be a 100 million dollar business in 5 years. 90 of that is probably because of football.

How many 100 million dollar companies are there a year in mississippi? It is a business and everyone is benefiting except the ones that are actually doing the work.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Well....I know what Ennis is talking about and so do a lot of others on this board. Except...I don't understand "crunchy mike"...but that's probably because I am older than Ennis.

Cruncy mike was the kid from
Ole miss that got caught on camera, in the grove, saying "eff ____" and it went viral.

[Intramural All-American]

Who pays for tyler russell or blaynes permanent brain injuries and long term health because of a half dozen concussions? No gpa student is getting head hunted 13 weeks a year.
Football players are not the same as regular students. They just arent.

Well that's just BS. It is Tyler and Blaine's decision to play a sport with those huge risks. They know the risk going in. That's a very liberal view that someone else should be responsible for taking care of them for their reckless decisions. And yes, playing football to begin with is reckless.

[dawgs]

And you're wrong on every account

I'm right on every account.

[bulldawg28]

So much hypocrisy in this thread.

[Political Hack]

So much hypocrisy in this thread.

it's unbelievable. I have a feeling it would change if their boss told them tomorrow they get a mattress in their office and food stamps but no more money.

[jalakin]

You just compared rotc to sec football....
I was comparing the commitment it takes and the financial benefits you get. And guess what if you quit football you still got a free education. Quit the military before your four years is up and you have to pay back that scholarship. So I think they should be counting the blessings they are getting in being college athletes, especially in the SEC.

[PMDawg]

So much hypocrisy in this thread.

You're right about that.

[dawgs]

I was comparing the commitment it takes and the financial benefits you get. And guess what if you quit football you still got a free education. Quit the military before your four years is up and you have to pay back that scholarship. So I think they should be counting the blessings they are getting in being college athletes, especially in the SEC.

Unfortunately for you, commitment and dedication aren't as valuable skills as running a 4.4 40.

[MadisonDawg]

Don't know if it's been mentioned in the thread yet, but I had a class with FTF and Gavin and we had this discussion in class. They get a check every month based on their parents income. Fred's was like 500 a month for whatever he wanted and Gavin's was a little less. I live with a football player and he would come home with stuff like umi and veranda everyday in June that everyone on the team got after workouts

[Jack Lambert]

Try playing Rugby without the benefits of Footballs helmets and pads for the university and tell me I am not a just as a risk doing that as they are, but without any of the benefits that they received while actually playing.

You last post was right on spot but please don't turn this into which sport is tougher.

[Johnson85]

Well that's just BS. It is Tyler and Blaine's decision to play a sport with those huge risks. They know the risk going in. That's a very liberal view that someone else should be responsible for taking care of them for their reckless decisions. And yes, playing football to begin with is reckless.

Nobody is arguing that somebody simply take care of them. Just let them be paid for their services like everybody else. I'm pretty sure if every employer of your most valuable skill got together to set a cap on compensation (much less set a cap and basically required that all compensation be in-kind), you'd have a problem with it, and not view yourself to be asking somebody to be responsible for your decisions.

[jalakin]

Don't know if it's been mentioned in the thread yet, but I had a class with FTF and Gavin and we had this discussion in class. They get a check every month based on their parents income. Fred's was like 500 a month for whatever he wanted and Gavin's was a little less. I live with a football player and he would come home with stuff like umi and veranda everyday in June that everyone on the team got after workouts

Exactly, I have been in roommates with football players and have yet to see one go hungry.

[Johnson85]

Exactly, I have been in roommates with football players and have yet to see one go hungry.

Jackasses like Napier that are claiming to go hungry are not helping their cause.
(1) There are people out there that are truly going hungry and it's insulting for them to act like they are in the same boat as them. They may, if they don't budget, have some nights where they want some latenight food but have to wait until they get free food the next morning. It makes them look like entitled jackasses.
(2) It legitimizes the people who somehow think that all the athletes are entitled to is to not go hungry. The real question is why should a multibillion dollar business get to fix the compensation of players below market wages. Any other business would have lost in court long ago over this issue.

[BrunswickDawg]

Some of these issues could be lessened easily through the NCAA loosening some of their dumb restrictions. Access to food beyond "3 meals" was a start. If the university is able to parlay successful athletics into free shit for their athletes - like other free meals, a case of snack food, gear, a stipend, etc. - as long as it is generated through direct donations, why should they care? They don't care when they get swag at bowl game, why should they care if a local retailer wants to give everyone a suit, or a dinner, or pay into a fund to help support the kids who are giving a lot to the school they support? Draw the line at things like cars, houses, furniture for momma, jobs - call the rest "in-kind support" just like every non-profit in the country does.

[Irondawg]

There's just a two edge sword going on here and guys the solution isnt easy.

On one hand the universities make a crapload off football and biggest revenue generating sport. It's also the most risky injury wise to the student athletes. Coaches for the team make craploads of money. The pressure to win is great and that passes down to the athletes who are pressed to commit most of their awake time honing that skill. It's incredibly hard to have a time intensive major and be a college athlete. So on one hand it's an easy argument to make that maybe these guys should get paid a little more.

On the other hand, you start treating these guys different and you open pandora's box. Don't like Title IX now? Wait until you want to start paying male athletes more than women because they generate revenue. While a pretty easy argument to make rationally, we all know that social judgement isn't always rational.

Also remember that all schools aren't in the same situation. Lots of the logic applied to how and why we should pay players more in severly flawed. Take USM as an example that just had to sell home games the past few years to just try and put the Athletic Department in the black. Like it or not the Athletic Department has to be looked as a whole unit and the revenue generating sports support the non-revenue generating sports to provide opportunities to all forms of student-athletes.

You know why there isn't a minor league football system? Because without something like NFL backing it would never succeed. While football is the main event, it's a main event because they are playing for a school that ex-students relate to. Take all the best players from OM and M-State and make them the Mississippi Marauders and they're drawing probably 10K at best for a game, getting paid probably $20K on average (note I tried to look up NBA D-league salaries on google and a 2 min search showed me 2009 max salary was $24k with a $12K minimum). It would require NFL backing to even survive financially. That's a realistic free market value so compare that to what they are getting today.

That said, they should probably get a little more but a lot of the revenue they generate goes back into the school and athletic department for the benefit of the student athlete.

[Political Hack]

Again, players or anyone buying into the "we're hungry at night" crap are idiots. That's not the point. That's suggesting they don't have enough to live on. What they should be arguing for is a slice of the pie that THEY CREATE. They get pennies while coaches make millions and ADs make six figures.

People who make money off of the entertainment they provide:
coaches
recruiting analyst
newspapers
TV
magazines
websites
books
clothing apparel
branding
IMG
CLC
NCAA
conferences
referees
grounds crews
restaurants
hotels
gas stations
government (fed state and local)
food vendors/concessions
advertisers
big screen developers
stadium builders
shoe companies
universities
Home Depot
tent companies
sat companies
liquor stores
etc...

Another thing that people bitch about is the equity issue... MSU players get paid and Jackson state doesn't because one makes money and other doesn't? Well, guess what, JSU gets paid a big lump sum to come play MSU so they are getting paid for MSU's players services too. Think about that... the Jackson State football program gets more cash in hand from the work of our football players than the football players themselves do. EVERYONE is tapped in and making money... except the players, who are the main freaking event. It's absurd.

[dawgs]

Also remember that all schools aren't in the same situation. Lots of the logic applied to how and why we should pay players more in severly flawed. Take USM as an example that just had to sell home games the past few years to just try and put the Athletic Department in the black. Like it or not the Athletic Department has to be looked as a whole unit and the revenue generating sports support the non-revenue generating sports to provide opportunities to all forms of student-athletes.

And this is why the big 5 conferences are pushing to either have their own rules or to be separated from the rest of the FBS into D4 or whatever.

[RossDawg82]

I wouldn't be shocked if that $1000 includes rent too.

A lot of these players are on full scholarships (school, rent, books, and 3 meals a day). They also take out student loans, so at the beginning of the semester they get a check for around 5K-6K. They have nothing to pay for unless they have bills like insurance, cell phones. I assure you, Bo Wallace does not pay his own bills. No screw that little prick. He lives better than anyone of us did in college. Im tired of him bitching about what he doesn't get.

[Irondawg]

Again, players or anyone buying into the "we're hungry at night" crap are idiots. That's not the point. That's suggesting they don't have enough to live on. What they should be arguing for is a slice of the pie that THEY CREATE. They get pennies while coaches make millions and ADs make six figures.

People who make money off of the entertainment they provide:
coaches
recruiting analyst
newspapers
TV
magazines
websites
books
clothing apparel
branding
IMG
CLC
NCAA
conferences
referees
grounds crews
restaurants
hotels
gas stations
government (fed state and local)
food vendors/concessions
advertisers
big screen developers
stadium builders
shoe companies
universities
Home Depot
tent companies
sat companies
liquor stores
etc...

Another thing that people bitch about is the equity issue... MSU players get paid and Jackson state doesn't because one makes money and other doesn't? Well, guess what, JSU gets paid a big lump sum to come play MSU so they are getting paid for MSU's players services too. Think about that... the Jackson State football program gets more cash in hand from the work of our football players than the football players themselves do. EVERYONE is tapped in and making money... except the players, who are the main freaking event. It's absurd.


But you could make the same argument for the universities since they are supplying the fans and name brand that enable all that stuff to happen. I'm not trying to say you are dead wrong that the players shouldn't get more, I'm just saying it's not "just" the players that enable all of it.

[Irondawg]

And this is why the big 5 conferences are pushing to either have their own rules or to be separated from the rest of the FBS into D4 or whatever.

And that's perfectly fine if they want to do and be able to create their own class of rules. I'm all for that but you're still going to run into the equality issue i think.

[sandwolf]

But you could make the same argument for the universities since they are supplying the fans and name brand that enable all that stuff to happen. I'm not trying to say you are dead wrong that the players shouldn't get more, I'm just saying it's not "just" the players that enable all of it.

This is pretty much in line with the way I feel about it. I feel like the universities are primarily what makes college football so valuable.......if you took all of the big conferences' teams, just as they are today, and created a league that was not affiliated with the universities that they currently represent, that league would go bankrupt in no time at all. Now I do think that the players should have their full cost of attendance covered (and I mean FULL cost of attendance), as well as receive a generous stipend. But all this talk about them being the main event and them not getting a piece of the pie that they created is complete bullshit......it is the universities that they represent that created the pie.

[codeDawg]

I think I've overlooked what's most important here, and that is our right to control the game we watch and our own principles about student athletes. We should move protect these things before all of this gets shoved down our throats.

I have a proposal I just posted here:

http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?18003-MSU-should-leave-the-SEC-before-our-principles-are-compromised

[Johnson85]

But you could make the same argument for the universities since they are supplying the fans and name brand that enable all that stuff to happen. I'm not trying to say you are dead wrong that the players shouldn't get more, I'm just saying it's not "just" the players that enable all of it.

There's no doubt that the college game is more profitable than an NFL minor league would be. But that's not much different than any other business. It doesn't justify holding players' compensation well below market value. It would result in the universities getting a very favorable deal just like the NBA and NFL does, but even more so. The NBA and NFL is full of players that create basically all the demand. If the top 240 players in the NBA left the NBA to form their own 24 league team, the NBA would fold in a year. If all the NCAA players threatened to boycott and form a separate professional sports league, they would quite likely fail and the NCAA would still make a lot of money with replacement players. If the NCAA negotiated with a players union, they would be dealing witha union that represents primarily players that will never have a pro career and won't want to waste an entire year in a lockout. The players would probably end up with close to the same deal they have now. If the big conferences break out and negotiate their own deal, players will end up with basically the same benefits they have now, plus signing bonuses (with signing bonuses probably subject to a cap system) and maybe some pay for performance along with a a bigger monthly stipend.

[Intramural All-American]

Here's my final thought on the matter. In the end, this isn't professional football. So the market value crap is not applicable here. If you want it to be professional football, then the players shouldn't be required to go to class or to a university to play. Guess what, that would be the end of college football, and I really don't think any of you want that. I just graduated PT school, and I spent 4 rotations of treating patients where I did not get paid at all. Med students spend their entire last two years of school treating patients, and they aren't getting paid either. We are making money for the hospitals or clinics we are working for, but doing it under the assumption that we are not going to get paid for it. What is the difference? We are all in school, honing our skills in an attempt to make money when we get into the professional world.

[Johnson85]

In the end, this isn't professional football. So the market value crap is not applicable here.

It's absolutely professional football. I notice that many people that like to spout this line don't take advantage of the many opportunities to watch amateur college football. To hear people talk, you'd think MSU and UM's stadium would be empty while MC and Milsaps and Delta State would easily fill their stadium for each game. Yet it's state and UM filling 60k seat stadiums while most of the other schools have excess capacity in much smaller stadiums.

[Tbonewannabe]

And the truth finally comes out. It's NOT about a free education anymore. There's the problem. That's why college athletics were created, but it's turned into a whole other beast, and you want to turn it into another whole beast.

When I played sports in HD and college, I did it because it was fun and because it helped me get an education. If you're looking for minor league football, someone should start a league. But I don't want my university's name associated with it.

Most SEC football players are advised on what degree to get. Want to be an engineer? You don't have the 3 to 4 hours a day for homework that is required. That is the biggest problem now. Everyone raves about Dak and McKinney getting the team together every night. You can't do that if you are trying to become a doctor or engineer. So now you are getting a degree that may not be what you want but have to do to stay eligible. They might as well just have a football degree that doesn't require going to class.

[Tbonewannabe]

Here's my final thought on the matter. In the end, this isn't professional football. So the market value crap is not applicable here. If you want it to be professional football, then the players shouldn't be required to go to class or to a university to play. Guess what, that would be the end of college football, and I really don't think any of you want that. I just graduated PT school, and I spent 4 rotations of treating patients where I did not get paid at all. Med students spend their entire last two years of school treating patients, and they aren't getting paid either. We are making money for the hospitals or clinics we are working for, but doing it under the assumption that we are not going to get paid for it. What is the difference? We are all in school, honing our skills in an attempt to make money when we get into the professional world.

I think NCAA football is like an internship to prepare for the NFL. The problem is that they are then expected to also be a typical college student. SEC athletes don't have the time to have a part time job. They no longer have very much down time at all and it is now a 12 month internship. They are required to have "voluntary" workouts year round and to be in summer school when most college students would be working to save money.

[Intramural All-American]

I think NCAA football is like an internship to prepare for the NFL. The problem is that they are then expected to also be a typical college student. SEC athletes don't have the time to have a part time job. They no longer have very much down time at all and it is now a 12 month internship. They are required to have "voluntary" workouts year round and to be in summer school when most college students would be working to save money.

But that definition would require every single student athlete to garner the same stipends because all athletes do that exact same thing. Colleges don't have that kind of money.

[Maroonthirteen]

While I agree that athletics doesn't afford a student athlete a lot of free time. Plenty of athletes have gone on to become doctors, lawyers, dentist...etc. Also just being on a college team, allows athletes the training and experience that opens potential career paths in athletics that non-athletes are most UNLIKELY to have. Those opportunities in and off themselves are valuable.

With all that said..........I don't think athletes should be paid in the general sense. But it is ridiculous how much universities are making off tv, the players likeness and the amount they charge us (even with all the TV revenue) to watch these student-athletes. I think a fair and doable (with title IX) solution is for the NCAA to go back to athletic dorms. Athletic departments should be allowed to give back to the athletes by building them the most plush living quarters the university can afford. These dorms should come with a full 18 hour kitchen too. That would at least be a start.

[Intramural All-American]

It's absolutely professional football. I notice that many people that like to spout this line don't take advantage of the many opportunities to watch amateur college football. To hear people talk, you'd think MSU and UM's stadium would be empty while MC and Milsaps and Delta State would easily fill their stadium for each game. Yet it's state and UM filling 60k seat stadiums while most of the other schools have excess capacity in much smaller stadiums.

No, no its not. It is still an amateur sport. The college students part is what makes it a college sport, aka amateur sport. Once it becomes professional, it will leave the college ranks to become minor league. At that point, there will be no more college football.

[Political Hack]

But you could make the same argument for the universities since they are supplying the fans and name brand that enable all that stuff to happen. I'm not trying to say you are dead wrong that the players shouldn't get more, I'm just saying it's not "just" the players that enable all of it.

the university gets a huge cut. they aren't paying coaches millions because it's a bad financial decision. they do it because of brand recognition, student population growth, season tickets, donations, TV revenue, etc...

[Political Hack]

No, no its not. It is still an amateur sport. The college students part is what makes it a college sport, aka amateur sport. Once it becomes professional, it will leave the college ranks to become minor league. At that point, there will be no more college football.

it's only amateur because of the suppression of players' rights to a portion of the proceeds they help create. it's pretty damn professional for the coaches, Ath directors, university presidents, SEC, NCAA, etc...

[Irondawg]

the university gets a huge cut. they aren't paying coaches millions because it's a bad financial decision. they do it because of brand recognition, student population growth, season tickets, donations, TV revenue, etc...

But it can be a bad financial decision - it's not risk free. Plus they fund all the other stuff in the athletic department.

I guess a fair question is how much do you think they "should" get paid over what they are today?

[codeDawg]

No, no its not. It is still an amateur sport. The college students part is what makes it a college sport, aka amateur sport. Once it becomes professional, it will leave the college ranks to become minor league. At that point, there will be no more college football.

I say we just move to Division II and be done with it. We won't have any of these problems since players at that level don't complain about what we give them. Student athletes can be just student athletes. All the big schools can worry about all these issues and our game can be the way we want it.

[Intramural All-American]

it's only amateur because of the suppression of players' rights to a portion of the proceeds they help create. it's pretty damn professional for the coaches, Ath directors, university presidents, SEC, NCAA, etc...

High school football is professional for coaches and ADs. Yea, let's pay those players, too. Not your best argument there.

[codeDawg]

High school football is professional for coaches and ADs. Yea, let's pay those players, too. Not your best argument there.

I see no reason to not pay high school players if a school thinks they make enough money to do so. I don't understand why it's okay to pay someone to make hamburgers, but it's not okay to pay someone to entertain you.

I worked at MSU as a student. I negotiated my salary, working hours, etc. I paid taxes. Why was okay for me to come to an agreement on the terms of me writing software, but not okay for a football player to negotiate the terms of entertaining hundreds of thousands of people?

If we don't want this, we should just join a league where this isn't an issue. Let the SEC and everybody else be the semi-pro teams they obviously want to be and we can just have amateur sports.

[Intramural All-American]

Here's two articles that I just looked up. Where is the money supposed to be coming from to pay all of these athletes "market value" prices? I'm not a huge financial person, so let me know if I am just missing something.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2013/05/07/ncaa-finances-subsidies/2142443/

[Intramural All-American]

I see no reason to not pay high school players if a school thinks they make enough money to do so. I don't understand why it's okay to pay someone to make hamburgers, but it's not okay to pay someone to entertain you.

I worked at MSU as a student. I negotiated my salary, working hours, etc. I paid taxes. Why was okay for me to come to an agreement on the terms of me writing software, but not okay for a football player to negotiate the terms of entertaining hundreds of thousands of people?

If we don't want this, we should just join a league where this isn't an issue. Let the SEC and everybody else be the semi-pro teams they obviously want to be and we can just have amateur sports.

Now, you're going mental. Making high school players professionals? That's some of the dumbest crap I've ever heard.

[codeDawg]

Now, you're going mental. Making high school players professionals? That's some of the dumbest crap I've ever heard.

Explain to me why there should be a rule against it. I don't think the supply / demand works out to where they would, but give me one real reason why it should be prohibited. If someone wants to pay someone for something that's not illegal, I'm just not seeing the problem.

[codeDawg]

Here's two articles that I just looked up. Where is the money supposed to be coming from to pay all of these athletes "market value" prices? I'm not a huge financial person, so let me know if I am just missing something.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2013/05/07/ncaa-finances-subsidies/2142443/

You are too focused on the dollars. Nobody is suggesting players get what they get now + $1500 / month (or some other amount). They are saying let the players negotiate. The point of negotiations is to come to a conclusion that is mutually beneficial to all parties. It would work itself out.

[Political Hack]

High school football is professional for coaches and ADs. Yea, let's pay those players, too. Not your best argument there.

when they pay a coach a seven figure salary, I'll say those kids deserve more than a desk and a parking spot on campus.

[Irondawg]

let's not forget who pays a large chunk of the coaches salaries - boosters.

Once again there has to be some structure to the system - it's can't be total free market and the players can't negotiate like a typical union b/c the schools themselves aren't businesses and they are all in somewhat unique situations.

I don't see a lot of people arguing that the perhaps the players shouldn't get a little more. I just think people are against them acting like they are total victims and against some of the arguments stating they they are being grossly taken advantage of. It's not that you guys don't have any argument - it's just not to the extremes I see mentioned.

So let's start with a basic question - how would you guys structure it to be fair to the players in your mind? Not just at MSU - but if this applies to all NCAA schools.

[TheRef]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2014/07/18/ncaa-name-and-likeness-release-student-athlete-statement-form/12840997/

NCAA O'Bannon lawsuit update.

[Intramural All-American]

when they pay a coach a seven figure salary, I'll say those kids deserve more than a desk and a parking spot on campus.

Oh, so it's not the principle of the matter? It's just when it meets a certain financial barrier. Gotcha. Keep fighting the good fight.