Question for the board

[Gridiron87]

Ever since I can remember, in terms of program momentum, OM and MSU have fluctuated up and down. When it seems like one program is doing well, the other is struggling. However, that trend seems to be changing. Both teams have been to bowl games the past two years and this year will be no different. The question I have is do you think its possible for both teams to consistently have successful programs for an extended period of time? Personally, I think its possible. Look at what's happening as we speak: to the naked eye it would seem that MSU has the edge simply for the fact that the stadium is being expanded to make it the largest in the state. However, next year, UM will be expanding and they will again have the larger stadium. Look at recruiting: both teams are consistently bringing in top 25 classes and judging by the fact that both teams are now bowl consistent it seems that trend will continue. What is your opinion on this issue? Do you think success for both teams can/will continue for multiple years?

[dickiedawg]

Sort of depends on how you define "successful". I think years where both schools are bowling will become increasingly common. Now this year is a rarity, as both teams EXPECT to win 8-9 regular season games and go to a good bowl. That kind of sustained success is unlikely.

[DawgHouseUnited]

It's been a while since I've heard it, but I think this was discussed on Head to Head once or twice. They seemed to think that we could both do well at the same time. Personally, I don't know if we can both keep sustained success at the same time.

[BossDawg]

MSU has the edge simply for the fact that the stadium is being expanded to make it the largest in the state. However, next year, UM will be expanding and they will again have the larger stadium.

I don't think having the biggest stadium really matters that much. They can't fill the one they have now, why would they make it bigger? If anything, their expansion PLANS indicate the momentum State has more than the momentum they have.

[Political Hack]

Not unless all MS kids stay home and we start plucking Alabama for the elite talent. Currently, it's the inverse of that.

[CadaverDawg]

I don't think having the biggest stadium really matters that much. They can't fill the one they have now, why would they make it bigger? If anything, their expansion PLANS indicate the momentum State has more than the momentum they have.

Exactly.

In my opinion, the only reason both are having success right now, is because Freeze has a gimmick finesse offense that's far different from our physical Mullen offense, so we aren't recruiting all of the same players. Not just being a homer, but I feel that we are the better program right now AND have the best chance at sustaining it. Mainly bc we are physical, and have proven sustained success over 4 straight years. Let's not say "both have proven sustained success" for OM yet. They are still in Freeze's honeymoon phase. I'm not anywhere close to calling OM "sustained success" yet. And I'm a little skeptical at the OP's inclusion of OM expanding their stadium next year AND trying to claim they're at the same level of sustained success as us.

[Dawg61]

I don't think having the biggest stadium really matters that much. They can't fill the one they have now, why would they make it bigger? If anything, their expansion PLANS indicate the momentum State has more than the momentum they have.

Why would they build anything else before putting actual grass on that field? That turf is ass terrible. It is Louisiana-Lafayette horriful. Kinda looks like a giant solo cup flattened out actually. Hmmm… Maybe Ole Miss should hang a gigantic chandelier over the middle of the field and sell cold chicken strips next.

[Lloyd Christmas]

Exactly.

In my opinion, the only reason both are having success right now, is because Freeze has a gimmick finesse offense that's far different from our physical Mullen offense, so we aren't recruiting all of the same players. Not just being a homer, but I feel that we are the better program right now AND have the best chance at sustaining it. Mainly bc we are physical, and have proven sustained success over 4 straight years. Let's not say "both have proven sustained success" for OM yet. They are still in Freeze's honeymoon phase. I'm not anywhere close to calling OM "sustained success" yet. And I'm a little skeptical at the OP's inclusion of OM expanding their stadium next year AND trying to claim they're at the same level of sustained success as us.

I'm with you. That sentence where he said Ole Miss is expanding next year to be the biggest in the state outed him. Plus it's not happening next year to my knowledge. These are some sad trolls.

[Intramural All-American]

If successful is making bowl games, then yes, both can be successful together. If successful is competing for SEC championships, then no. That's my view at least.

[curmudgeon]

I have said for years the thing holding State and Ole Miss back from being competitive in the West year in and year out is one thing and one thing only.

Southern Miss being decent. If USM were to ever drop down to bottom feeder status, then both State and Ole Miss would make a rise in the West. Look what 1-21 over the past two years at USM has done: State and Ole Miss are poised to have their best seasons in years.

Keep USM irrelevant and we both can be competitive. If USM is good, only one of us can be good and we'll trade off every few years. Maybe its a different angle to look at, but I think its worth noting. Alabama and Auburn don't have to worry about UAB. Georgia and Georgia Tech don't have to worry about Georgia State. Florida and Miami have fallen off a bit because of the rise of UCF. Texas has dropped off because of the emergence of TCU.

There's only so much room for Division I success within a state's borders. We are thinner to begin with.

[Maroonthirteen]

I think history shows that if one team is up, it motivates the other to the make changes and raise themselves up too. Well, since the early 90s at least. There are a number of brief times over the last 25 years when we have both been good and bad at the same time. However, to answer your question, I think as long as the SEC keeps drawing the talent and the checks keep coming, I see OM and State as 5-9 win programs every year. I would be surprised to see either school slip to a less than 4 win season for an extended time...unless there is a hot volleyball coach and motorcyle accident involved. Anyway.........Just being in the SEC alone and the exposure the SEC provides.......will allow us to recruit better than ever and attract better coaching talent than ever before.

Someone else mentioned USM.......USM is a non-factor to us in CUSA. NONE! Alabama and LSU's success are the biggest distractors of talent, fans and support from State and OM. We need Saban and Lester gone......yesterday.

[maroonmania]

If successful is making bowl games, then yes, both can be successful together. If successful is competing for SEC championships, then no. That's my view at least.

And I believe you are correct. The rise and attractiveness of playing in the SEC has made it easier for both MSU and OM to attract higher end talent even from outside of MS. OOC losses are becoming fewer and fewer all the time, so often winning 2 or 3 conference games will get you bowl eligible as we have done a time or two lately. Now when we have to add that Big 5 conference game starting in 2016 it will get tougher on both being bowl teams because taking an OOC loss will be more likely. But even with that I think we can both get to 6 or 7 wins in a year fairly routinely. Now, as you stated, being simultaneous challengers to winning the SEC or SEC West is another matter entirely.

[BulldogBear]

I think you all make good points and it's a combination of the rise of the SEC, more $$$$, AND the irrelevance of USM. They went south at the wrong time and missed out on the "Big East" because without success they are of no value to the American because there is no location/TV value. Now, instead of that good mid-major on our back doorstep we have just another Sun Belt (which all CUSA redux really is) down the road not really all that different than competing with UAB or ULM for recruits. I'm afraid USM has gone away from relevance for good without some major paradigm shift. I think it is very significant and we will see how significant it is if we (MSU-UM) can sustain success at the same time. My guess is yes... consistent bowling anyway, with a shot at a great season every few years. But I doubt we can both win 8-9 reg season games regularly. But, good news is, we may have seen the "end" of 3-4 win seasons for the forseeable future. Oh, there'll be one on occassion just like the 10 win ones but I bet both schools can win 5-8 reg season games a year with each of us winning 9-11 twice a decade.

[curmudgeon]

Someone else mentioned USM.......USM is a non-factor to us in CUSA. NONE! Alabama and LSU's success are the biggest distractors of talent, fans and support from State and OM. We need Saban and Lester gone......yesterday.

Not now, but they did. When they had 13 straight winning seasons, C-USA was a better conference, they were certainly having an impact on us. You are delusional if you don't think that. There was one season where USM got 5 of the Dandy Dozen.

Both us and Ole Miss are on the rise, right now at Arkansas' expense in the SEC. At some point, Arkansas is going to come back. We need A&M to take a serious step back, and at some point, LSU or Alabama needs to drop to 7-5 teams.

[DudyDawg]

I have said for years the thing holding State and Ole Miss back from being competitive in the West year in and year out is one thing and one thing only.

Southern Miss being decent. If USM were to ever drop down to bottom feeder status, then both State and Ole Miss would make a rise in the West. Look what 1-21 over the past two years at USM has done: State and Ole Miss are poised to have their best seasons in years.

Keep USM irrelevant and we both can be competitive. If USM is good, only one of us can be good and we'll trade off every few years. Maybe its a different angle to look at, but I think its worth noting. Alabama and Auburn don't have to worry about UAB. Georgia and Georgia Tech don't have to worry about Georgia State. Florida and Miami have fallen off a bit because of the rise of UCF. Texas has dropped off because of the emergence of TCU.

There's only so much room for Division I success within a state's borders. We are thinner to begin with.

I didn't look at it like that, but now that you say it, I think that is a good point. While a good USM team won't out recruit either of us on a class as a whole, they may take one or two individuals from us that could really be big. Guys who may be our (or OM's) second string tackle, and we never notice that we didn't get him until our starter goes out. I think you bring up a really valid point.

[Gridiron87]

I'm with you. That sentence where he said Ole Miss is expanding next year to be the biggest in the state outed him. Plus it's not happening next year to my knowledge. These are some sad trolls.
I'm really not trying to troll. I will admit that I'm an OM student (only for the pharmacy program) but I've always been a secondary MSU fan and pull for them when they play anyone else. And as far as the stadium issue is concerned, I could be wrong about the date but I was just going off of the fact that Bjork said sometime ago that the stadium expansion would occur shortly after construction on the basketball stadium began. I think they should expand it because the past two seasons nearly every home contest was sold out and last year the average attendance was nearly 60,000 a game with an average of 98 percent capacity. You guys were actually at over 100% capacity last season at 55,695 per game.
http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/2013/sec-football-attendance-2013/

[Gridiron87]

I didn't look at it like that, but now that you say it, I think that is a good point. While a good USM team won't out recruit either of us on a class as a whole, they may take one or two individuals from us that could really be big. Guys who may be our (or OM's) second string tackle, and we never notice that we didn't get him until our starter goes out. I think you bring up a really valid point.
I agree, curmudgeon brings up a very good point. Plus, you have to factor in the occasional highly ranked USM legacy player who is only playing there because his dad did.

[curmudgeon]

And some data over the past 15 seasons.

2013: MSU 7-6 (bowl), UM 8-5 (bowl), USM 1-11.
2012: MSU 8-5 (bowl), UM 7-6 (bowl), USM 0-12.
2011: MSU 7-6 (bowl), UM 2-10, USM 12-2 (bowl, conference champion)
2010: MSU 9-4 (bowl), UM 4-8, USM 8-5 (bowl)
2009: MSU 5-7, UM 9-4 (bowl), USM 7-6 (bowl)

2008: MSU 4-8, UM 9-4 (bowl), USM 7-6 (bowl)
2007: MSU 8-5 (bowl), UM 3-9, USM 7-6 (bowl)
2006: MSU 3-9, UM 4-8, USM (9-5, conference runner up, bowl)
2005: MSU 3-8, UM 3-8, USM 7-5 (bowl)
2004: MSU 3-8, UM 4-7, USM 7-5 (bowl)
Note: One can argue that during this stretch, USM was a very big factor. They were the premier program in the state for three straight seasons 04-06.

2003: MSU 2-10, UM 10-3 (bowl), USM 9-4 (bowl)
2002: MSU 3-9, UM 7-6 (bowl), USM 7-6 (bowl)
2001: MSU 3-8, UM 7-4, USM 6-5 (no bowls for MS teams, but UM and USM with winning records)
2000: MSU 8-4 (bowl), UM 7-5 (bowl), USM 8-4 (bowl)
1999: MSU 10-2 (bowl), UM 8-4 (bowl), USM 9-3, conference champion, bowl)

So over the last 15 years, only twice has MSU, UM and USM all had winning seasons (and they were 14 and 15 seasons ago). Over the same period of time, only 4 times have MSU and UM both been to a bowl in the same season - the aforementioned 1999 and 2000 seasons and the last two. In the last 15 years, a Mississippi team has been to a bowl except for one (2001), and both UM and USM qualified and were left out. If the bowl picture was the way it is currently, they would have both been. 9 of the 15 years, two teams went to bowl games. 7 of those 9, USM was one of them.

In fact, USM had a three year stretch where they were the only team in MS going to a bowl, and they were out recruiting both MSU and UM. They actually turned it into a run at the then-decent C-USA title. USM being irrelevant will have a direct correlation on State and Ole Miss success.

[Gridiron87]

And some data over the past 15 seasons.

2013: MSU 7-6 (bowl), UM 8-5 (bowl), USM 1-11.
2012: MSU 8-5 (bowl), UM 7-6 (bowl), USM 0-12.
2011: MSU 7-6 (bowl), UM 2-10, USM 12-2 (bowl, conference champion)
2010: MSU 9-4 (bowl), UM 4-8, USM 8-5 (bowl)
2009: MSU 5-7, UM 9-4 (bowl), USM 7-6 (bowl)

2008: MSU 4-8, UM 9-4 (bowl), USM 7-6 (bowl)
2007: MSU 8-5 (bowl), UM 3-9, USM 7-6 (bowl)
2006: MSU 3-9, UM 4-8, USM (9-5, conference runner up, bowl)
2005: MSU 3-8, UM 3-8, USM 7-5 (bowl)
2004: MSU 3-8, UM 4-7, USM 7-5 (bowl)
Note: One can argue that during this stretch, USM was a very big factor. They were the premier program in the state for three straight seasons 04-06.

2003: MSU 2-10, UM 10-3 (bowl), USM 9-4 (bowl)
2002: MSU 3-9, UM 7-6 (bowl), USM 7-6 (bowl)
2001: MSU 3-8, UM 7-4, USM 6-5 (no bowls for MS teams, but UM and USM with winning records)
2000: MSU 8-4 (bowl), UM 7-5 (bowl), USM 8-4 (bowl)
1999: MSU 10-2 (bowl), UM 8-4 (bowl), USM 9-3, conference champion, bowl)

So over the last 15 years, only twice has MSU, UM and USM all had winning seasons (and they were 14 and 15 seasons ago). Over the same period of time, only 4 times have MSU and UM both been to a bowl in the same season - the aforementioned 1999 and 2000 seasons and the last two. In the last 15 years, a Mississippi team has been to a bowl except for one (2001), and both UM and USM qualified and were left out. If the bowl picture was the way it is currently, they would have both been. 9 of the 15 years, two teams went to bowl games. 7 of those 9, USM was one of them.

In fact, USM had a three year stretch where they were the only team in MS going to a bowl, and they were out recruiting both MSU and UM. They actually turned it into a run at the then-decent C-USA title. USM being irrelevant will have a direct correlation on State and Ole Miss success.

Wow I didn't expect that. Well on the bright side it seems like it's going to be awhile before the Buzzards are relevant again. Just be sure to beat them by 40 this year.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Ever since I can remember, in terms of program momentum, OM and MSU have fluctuated up and down. When it seems like one program is doing well, the other is struggling. However, that trend seems to be changing. Both teams have been to bowl games the past two years and this year will be no different. The question I have is do you think its possible for both teams to consistently have successful programs for an extended period of time? Personally, I think its possible. Look at what's happening as we speak: to the naked eye it would seem that MSU has the edge simply for the fact that the stadium is being expanded to make it the largest in the state. However, next year, UM will be expanding and they will again have the larger stadium. Look at recruiting: both teams are consistently bringing in top 25 classes and judging by the fact that both teams are now bowl consistent it seems that trend will continue. What is your opinion on this issue? Do you think success for both teams can/will continue for multiple years?

UM isn't going to expand their stadium next year. Sorry to break your heart. I don't think they've even released any official timeline for that project. For all I know, UM MAY (highly doubtful, but maybe) start on it this offseason- but there's no way in hell that you will have an expanded stadium by 2015.

The only reason UM even came up with the idea to expand VHS was so that UM fans can say "Well we're about to expand our stadium too." I think they've only sold out a handful of games recently- in fact, I remember UM's game against Texas in 2012 was their first sellout in a few years up to that point. And by the way, the last renderings I saw of the proposed expansion look like absolute shit. I hope the administration there pulls a reactionary move and wastes tens of millions of dollars on this horrific looking addition just to try and keep up with us.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ole/sports/umaaf/auto_original/7340386.jpeg