Chip Reno tweets about Dak from Manning Camp...

[CadaverDawg]

@thechipreno: OU's Trevor Knight and MSU's Dak Prescott are looking really good in passing drills at Manning camp.

[starkvegasdawg]

Dak Attack - Preparing to do this to our oppenents fan bases this season...

http://michiganstatefairllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/StoneBarns_SheepShearing_2.jpg

[Chip]

I was parroting Mike Detillier's tweet of the same. I'm an MSU grad school grad and my wife is an OU grad, so we follow and cheer for both teams.

[CadaverDawg]

I was parroting Mike Detillier's tweet of the same. I'm an MSU grad school grad and my wife is an OU grad, so we follow and cheer for both teams.

Oh ok, good deal. Can you post Detillier's tweet so that we can follow him on twitter about the Manning Camp?

[Chip]

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Michael Detillier
‏@MikeDetillier
In these throwing drills OU's Trevor Knight & MSU's Zak Prescott have really been impressive. Manning PA/Thibodaux Regional Medical Center.
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3:17 PM - 10 Jul 2014

[CadaverDawg]

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Michael Detillier
‏@MikeDetillier
In these throwing drills OU's Trevor Knight & MSU's Zak Prescott have really been impressive. Manning PA/Thibodaux Regional Medical Center.
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3:17 PM - 10 Jul 2014

Thanks.

Looks like he doesn't know Dak's name. He will be getting it right soon enough.

[Chip]

Yes, he spelled it correctly in this later tweet. But I think a lot of people around the country will be learning Dak Prescott's name this season.


Michael Detillier @MikeDetillier ? 14h
OBJ & Jarvis Landry put on a show catching passes from J. Winston, Dak Prescott, B. Bennett, T. Knight & Terrell Hunt pic.twitter.com/fdWa0ugvgq

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[msstate7]

This is awesome. Dak may be working on leaving early. His size and arm strength translate to the nfl.

[War Machine Dawg]

This is awesome. Dak may be working on leaving early. His size and arm strength translate to the nfl.

If Dak has the kind of season that would let him leave early.......

http://i.imgur.com/c6zLK7V.gif

http://i.imgur.com/293QFrT.gif

http://i.imgur.com/W5DTqbj.gif

http://i.imgur.com/jHmrTfA.gif

[smootness]

Yeah, as much as losing Dak early would hurt us in 2015, it would be monumentally massive for our football program as a whole.

[Chip]

There are a lot of pretty good QBs at this camp - Knight, Bryce Petty from Baylor, Marcus Mariota from Oregon, Brett Hundley from UCLA, Jameis Winston from FSU, Matty Mauk from Mizzou - so for Prescott to catch Detillier's eye makes one feel really good about what's in store if we can keep him healthy.

[Political Hack]

guys, Dak isn't leaving early. He's not an NFL type QB. he'll be a late round flyer or FA at best. He's a GREAT college QB but he nor his skill set are built for the NFL. I don't understand how people can't see this.

[War Machine Dawg]

guys, Dak isn't leaving early. He's not an NFL type QB. he'll be a late round flyer or FA at best. He's a GREAT college QB but he nor his skill set are built for the NFL. I don't understand how people can't see this.

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae73/MSUDawgBurke/DoubleFacepalm1_zps062726fe.jpg (http://s959.photobucket.com/user/MSUDawgBurke/media/DoubleFacepalm1_zps062726fe.jpg.html)

[Political Hack]

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae73/MSUDawgBurke/DoubleFacepalm1_zps062726fe.jpg (http://s959.photobucket.com/user/MSUDawgBurke/media/DoubleFacepalm1_zps062726fe.jpg.html)

your "football knowledge" bid is quickly coming to an end.

[msstate7]

guys, Dak isn't leaving early. He's not an NFL type QB. he'll be a late round flyer or FA at best. He's a GREAT college QB but he nor his skill set are built for the NFL. I don't understand how people can't see this.

I disagree. He's big enough and has a rifle arm. His question mark to me is his overall passing. He's with the premier qb's in college football and getting high praise on his passing.

[engie]

your "football knowledge" bid is quickly coming to an end.

But Tyler translates well, right? Seem to remember you championing that...

[Political Hack]

But Tyler translates well, right? Seem to remember you championing that...

he does. and may still.

I'll give the first person to respond 6-1 odds that Dak doesn't go in the top two rounds of the NFL draft either if the next two years.

[dawgs]

guys, Dak isn't leaving early. He's not an NFL type QB. he'll be a late round flyer or FA at best. He's a GREAT college QB but he nor his skill set are built for the NFL. I don't understand how people can't see this.

If his passing improves like it sounds it it has and he produces and stays healthy the next 1-2 seasons, he's absolutely more than a late flyer/FA. If you don't think his skill set is built for the nfl, you haven't look at many of the starting QBs under the age of 25 in the nfl.

[Political Hack]

fast as Vick - nope
big as Cam - nope
quick as RG3 - nope

Dak is a gutsy leader and great competitor and may win the freaking Heisman, but he's not built for the NFL game. If you don't know that, you don't understand how talent translates.

[smootness]

he does. and may still.

I'll give the first person to respond 6-1 odds that Dak doesn't go in the top two rounds of the NFL draft either if the next two years.

I don't think anyone is predicting this, just that it's possible and that Dak may be making moves to try to do it. Johnny Manziel was just taken in the 1st round...a tiny guy without a great arm or great speed who Texas didn't even think could play QB in COLLEGE. Think about that.

[smootness]

fast as Vick - nope
big as Cam - nope
quick as RG3 - nope

These could all be said about Mariotta as well, who is the possible #1 overall pick next year.

[thf24]

guys, Dak isn't leaving early. He's not an NFL type QB. he'll be a late round flyer or FA at best. He's a GREAT college QB but he nor his skill set are built for the NFL. I don't understand how people can't see this.

What skills does he lack, exactly? If his passing has come along as far as all indications are pointing, then he's got all the tools he needs there. He has no problem making quick decisions, and he's got two more years to continue to improve reading coverages. And if he's not build for the NFL physically, then Russell Wilson sure is hell isn't, but he somehow just won the Super Bowl. Dak isn't leaving early, but what's he lacking that negates the possibility of being a mid- to early-round draft pick in 2016?

[engie]

he does. and may still.

I'll give the first person to respond 6-1 odds that Dak doesn't go in the top two rounds of the NFL draft either if the next two years.

Top 2 rounds? For a school that hasn't had a QB drafted since when?

If you think Tyler has ability to play in the NFL and Dak doesn't -- maybe you shouldn't be calling out anyone else's opinion...

[Political Hack]

I don't think anyone is predicting this, just that it's possible and that Dak may be making moves to try to do it. Johnny Manziel was just taken in the 1st round...a tiny guy without a great arm or great speed who Texas didn't even think could play QB in COLLEGE. Think about that.

no doubt strange decisions take place. Tebow getting drafted was insane. I just don't see his talent transitioning to a franchise type pick at the NFL level. At the college level, he's a 1st rounder all day.

[Political Hack]

Top 2 rounds? For a school that hasn't had a QB drafted since when?

If you think Tyler has ability to play in the NFL and Dak doesn't -- maybe you shouldn't be calling out anyone else's opinion...

I've spoke to NFL agents that think Tyler will be a #3 or practice squad guy in the league if he wants to be. But you're opinion is probably more correct than theirs.

[dawgs]

fast as Vick - nope
big as Cam - nope
quick as RG3 - nope

Dak is a gutsy leader and great competitor and may win the freaking Heisman, but he's not built for the NFL game. If you don't know that, you don't understand how talent translates.

But maybe he's a better passer than Vick. Maybe he's a quicker runner and passer than cam. Maybe he's got better knees than RG3.

You don't have to be the best in any single aspect, you just have to have a combination that works. If his passing has improved like it sounds and he can stay healthy, dak will have good enough skills across the board to have a chance at making it in the nfl.

Obviously if his passing hasn't improved much or he can't stay healthy, he's probably not gonna get much more than a late round pick or FA contract.

[starkvegasdawg]

fast as Vick - nope
big as Cam - nope
quick as RG3 - nope
.

Neither is Drew Brees.

[Covercorner2]

While I agree he doesn't possess prototypical NFL pocket-passer atrributes, he doesn't lack size, arm strength, leadership or running ability- all things you can't teach. What he does need to improve on is accuracy, decision making, reading defenses, etc., but from the looks of the offseason workouts and feedback he is getting it's not crazy to think that will improve and that he could be drafted...

[Political Hack]

I think he could get drafted. I think he could improve. I dont think there's any danger of him leaving early this season as a potential high round draft pick.

He's shorter than most. His speed doesn't translate to the NFL. There are 260 LBs that will swallow him when he runs. He's not shaking lose of JJ Watts. He can't throw like Brees, Manning, Brady, Ryan, Luck, etc.. Even guys like Jasom Campbell and Alex Smith are leaps and bounds ahead of him.

I think he can play in the NFL. He could be a Matt Flynn, Kirk Cousins, Ryan Fitzpatrick type guy... but he's not a guy that leaves school early because he's going to be a lottery pick.

[Todd4State]

I think Dak will at least get drafted by the NFL. I hate to make a comparison, but what about Dak as a taller version of Russell Wilson?

Colin Kaepernick is doing fine in the NFL as well.

[War Machine Dawg]

I've spoke to NFL agents that think Tyler will be a #3 or practice squad guy in the league if he wants to be. But you're opinion is probably more correct than theirs.

Scouts are slow as shit to adapt. The day of the "NFL pocket passer" QB is slowly dying. Outside of the elite schools like Bama and LSU, most schools are going with mobile QBs. And more and more mobile QBs are being used at the HS level. I bet you also thought Cam, Kaepernick, RG3, and Russel Wilson wouldn't be good NFL players, either.

The fact of the matter is Dak has all the tools necessary to be an NFL QB. He has a cannon for an arm. Better than Tyler's, in fact. He's mobile, but does a good job sitting in the pocket and looking downfield when he's scrambling. He makes much quicker decisions and gets rid of the ball quickly. And he's plenty physical enough to handle the pounding of the position. Plus, as we all know, NFL teams aren't going to have him doing a ton of designed running. He needs to work on his accuracy some, but TR wasn't exactly the most accurate guy, either. And I think he's already ahead of TR in terms of reading defenses and anticipating his throws.

Another factor to consider is the NFL will keep implementing rules to protect the QBs. They're the money makers and everything in the NFL is trending towards more and more offense. I wouldn't be surprised to see flags on the QBs within 10-15 years. Or league-wide, for that matter, with the concussion and "player safety" emphasis.

Bottom line, Dak has everything he needs to play in the NFL. Will he? Who the hell knows, it's a crapshoot. Always has been, always will be. But the tools are absolutely there.

[Political Hack]

I think he'll play in the NFL. I think there's close to a 0% chance he leaves early for the draft.

WMD, I'm giving you 6-1 odds if you think otherwise. We'll make it simple... if he leaves after this year and gets drafted in the first 3 rounds you win. Otherwise, I win.

Deal?

[thf24]

I hate to make a comparison, but what about Dak as a taller version of Russell Wilson?

My thoughts exactly.

[MarketingBully01]

I think he'll play in the NFL. I think there's close to a 0% chance he leaves early for the draft.

WMD, I'm giving you 6-1 odds if you think otherwise. We'll make it simple... if he leaves after this year and gets drafted in the first 3 rounds you win. Otherwise, I win.

Deal?

Hack, I generally like your posting but aren't you the guy that said Dak hasn't proven anything yet and has only one win or something asinine like that. I think the only poster who agrees with you on this subject is Goat and that should tell you something. You are a great poster on here but your constant negativity on Dak gets kind of old.

[PMDawg]

I don't think anyone is predicting this, just that it's possible and that Dak may be making moves to try to do it. Johnny Manziel was just taken in the 1st round...a tiny guy without a great arm or great speed who Texas didn't even think could play QB in COLLEGE. Think about that.

you think JFF doesn't have a great arm?

[MarketingBully01]

6'5 245 vs 6'2 235 is pretty close....Cam vs Dak size. Dak is as big as a lot of linebackers in college. 6'2 is plenty tall for a QB as well. Hack is acting like he is barely 6 foot....

[Political Hack]

Hack, I generally like your posting but aren't you the guy that said Dak hasn't proven anything yet and has only one win or something asinine like that. I think the only poster who agrees with you on this subject is Goat and that should tell you something. You are a great poster on here but your constant negativity on Dak gets kind of old.

let me be clear, I love Dak as MSU's QB. Coming into this season there's not anyone I would replace him with. And I mean that... there's not a single QB in the country I'd rather have going into this season than Dak Prescott.

The statement about "not anointing" him just yet was to keep expectations tempered. Things are longing up beautifully, but he's still started and won exactly 1 SEC game. He's still pretty inexperienced. he hasn't had a season at the helm. He's only had 1 spring as the clear cut starter. BUT, he's got all the tools to be a great QB. I just hope the fan base doesn't expect perfection.

[thf24]

you think JFF doesn't have a great arm?

His isn't the strongest or the most accurate. His real strength comes from the fact that he loses little to no accuracy throwing on the run or off balance. Very similar to Vince Young, just not quite as strong.

[Diggs]

fast as Vick - nope
big as Cam - nope
quick as RG3 - nope

Dak is a gutsy leader and great competitor and may win the freaking Heisman, but he's not built for the NFL game. If you don't know that, you don't understand how talent translates.

Probably the dumbest statement yet about Dak. This could be said for most NFL QB's... including the reigning champ.

You seem to know a lot about NFL, maybe you'd be interested in joining a fantasy league? We could use a cellar dweller.

[Political Hack]

6'5 245 vs 6'2 235 is pretty close....Cam vs Dak size. Dak is as big as a lot of linebackers in college. 6'2 is plenty tall for a QB as well. Hack is acting like he is barely 6 foot....

Dak is 6'1" tops... maybe shorter, but that doesn't really matter. He's not a lottery pick type QB.

[Covercorner2]

The averages for all QBs in the NFL combine for the past 5 years are: 6'3 223 with a 4.88 forty

Dak is 6'2 235 and I'm sure he runs faster than a 4.88 forty....

[Political Hack]

I think Dak will at least get drafted by the NFL. I hate to make a comparison, but what about Dak as a taller version of Russell Wilson?

Colin Kaepernick is doing fine in the NFL as well.

Wilson was a 3rd round pick. That's where I see Dak's ceiling... and that's as a Sr if he continues to improve.

[War Machine Dawg]

I think he'll play in the NFL. I think there's close to a 0% chance he leaves early for the draft.

WMD, I'm giving you 6-1 odds if you think otherwise. We'll make it simple... if he leaves after this year and gets drafted in the first 3 rounds you win. Otherwise, I win.

Deal?

I don't think he'll leave early, either. But you said he wouldn't play in the NFL at all. I strongly disagree with that idea. My point was, IF he puts up the kinds of numbers it would take for him to leave early, I'd be ecstatic because it would mean we probably win the SEC. And we'd have a shot at winning the whole ****ing thing. Don't know why you have to be a negative asshole about that possibility, however slight. Not to mention the additional exposure it'd bring our program.

[Political Hack]

Probably the dumbest statement yet about Dak. This could be said for most NFL QB's... including the reigning champ.

You seem to know a lot about NFL, maybe you'd be interested in joining a fantasy league? We could use a cellar dweller.

be happy to take your money.

[Political Hack]

I don't think he'll leave early, either. But you said he wouldn't play in the NFL at all. I strongly disagree with that idea. My point was, IF he puts up the kinds of numbers it would take for him to leave early, I'd be ecstatic because it would mean we probably win the SEC. And we'd have a shot at winning the whole ****ing thing. Don't know why you have to be a negative asshole about that possibility, however slight. Not to mention the additional exposure it'd bring our program.

I didn't say he wouldn't play in the NFL. I actually said in the OP that he could be a late round flyer or a FA.

[engie]

Hack seems to have let his old positive Tyler, negative Dak persona peek thru a little...

So, is it a top 3 round ceiling and likely to play in the NFL -- or a "late round flyer/FA at best that isn't an NFL type QB" and "not a lottery pick type QB"?

[War Machine Dawg]

guys, Dak isn't leaving early. He's not an NFL type QB. he'll be a late round flyer or FA at best. He's a GREAT college QB but he nor his skill set are built for the NFL. I don't understand how people can't see this.

Close enough. "Not an NFL type QB" and "he nor his skill set are built for the NFL" is pretty much = Dak won't play in the NFL.

[War Machine Dawg]

Hack seems to have let his old positive Tyler, negative Dak persona peek thru a little...

So, is it a top 3 round ceiling and likely to play in the NFL -- or a "late round flyer/FA at best that isn't an NFL type QB" and "not a lottery pick type QB"?

Indeed.

[engie]

I didn't say he wouldn't play in the NFL. I actually said in the OP that he could be a late round flyer or a FA.

You said at least twice that he wasn't "an NFL type QB" or "a lottery pick type QB"...

[Political Hack]

Hack seems to have let his old positive Tyler, negative Dak persona peek thru a little...

So, is it a top 3 round ceiling and likely to play in the NFL -- or a "late round flyer/FA at best that isn't an NFL type QB" and "not a lottery pick type QB"?

I don't see the inconsistency there. Maybe you should brush up on your math.

1st - 2nd: No
3rd: Ceiling
4-6 or FA: Likely

[Political Hack]

You said at least twice that he wasn't "an NFL type QB" or "a lottery pick type QB"...

Vick, RG3, Tebow, and others aren't NFL type QBs either.

Do you know what a lottery pick is?

[Political Hack]

Close enough. "Not an NFL type QB" and "he nor his skill set are built for the NFL" is pretty much = Dak won't play in the NFL.

thanks for ignoring the part where I say he's a late round flyer or FA. That wouldn't allow you to put words in my mouth so you can try to "win" a message board discussion though.

[engie]

Vick, RG3, Tebow, and others aren't NFL type QBs either.

Do you know what a lottery pick is?

Maybe you need to update your definition of what an "NFL type QB" is... The league obviously has...

What kind of insult was this last sentence supposed to be?

[RBritt]

6'1" I agree with you.

[Political Hack]

Maybe you need to update your definition of what an "NFL type QB" is... The league obviously has...

What kind of insult was this last sentence supposed to be?

A question answering a question can sometimes be indicative of one's confusion.

Kap, Wilson, & RG3 are possible starters that don't fit the mold. They're the rare exception. 3 of 32. That's not good odds. On the other hand you have Bree's, Manning, Luck, Brady, Ryan, Rodgers, Flacco, Big Ben, Eli, Palmer, Rivers, etc...

I don't know what "trend" or "style" or "mold" y'all are talking about but the pattern looks pretty clear to me.

[engie]

thanks for ignoring the part where I say he's a late round flyer or FA. That wouldn't allow you to put words in my mouth so you can try to "win" a message board discussion though.

You defined late round flyer/FA as his ceiling. You defined your expectations as "not an NFL type QB". Those are two different things...

I just think it's crazy to try to define his ceiling right now -- after defining Russell's higher initially and basically still holding onto that -- despite Russell actually being the only one of the two to have ever truly shown a weakness that appears can't be overcome(anticipation and read speed).

[engie]

A question answering a question can sometimes be indicative of one's confusion.

Kap, Wilson, & RG3 are possible starters that don't fit the mold. They're the rare exception. 3 of 32. That's not good odds. On the other hand you have Bree's, Manning, Luck, Brady, Ryan, Rodgers, Flacco, Big Ben, Eli, Palmer, Rivers, etc...

I don't know what "trend" or "style" or "mold" y'all are talking about but the pattern looks pretty clear to me.

Did you REALLY just break it down that those are the only dual threat starters in the NFL and expect that to go unchecked? 3 of 32? LOL

You are going full retard on this Hack.

[War Machine Dawg]

Did you REALLY just break it down that those are the only dual threat starters in the NFL and expect that to go unchecked? 3 of 32? LOL

You are going full retard on this Hack.

He also left out the best dual threat QB in the league: Cam. Plus Manziel was drafted and is likely to start at some point this season. So it's at least 5 of 32, not 3 of 32. Apparently he doesn't bother counting, either.

ETA: Forgot about Geno Smith. Make that 6 of 32.

[thf24]

Not to mention all six of those dual threat starters were drafted within the past four years, indicating a trend despite the relatively low percentage.

[Covercorner2]

Yea, I think Ryan Tannehill, Geno Smith and Jake Locker are decent comparisons to Dak. They all have similar size, aren't "pocket passers" and they can run. Guess what? They were drafted in the first two rounds and start in the NFL...

ETA: I think Jake Locker is a really good comparison to Dak. He measured at 6'2.5 231 at the combine and completed only 55% of his passes his senior year of college. He was drafted #8 overall and starts for the Titans when healthy.

[gravedigger]

Neither are a good deal of nfl qbs. But I do agree he hasn't arrived yet and we shouldn't be concerned.

[Political Hack]

Cam is built for the NFL. He's not simply a 6'1" scrambler. He can make every thro, has incredible arm strength, and is one of the larger QBs in the league. If you think Wilson and Cam are of the same mold because both can run you're a blithering fool. Luck can run too. I guess he "doesn't fit the NFL mold" now either, right?

Both of you are acting like Jeremiah short claiming Relf was a pro QB.

[engie]

He also left out the best dual threat QB in the league: Cam. Plus Manziel was drafted and is likely to start at some point this season. So it's at least 5 of 32, not 3 of 32. Apparently he doesn't bother counting, either.

ETA: Forgot about Geno Smith. Make that 6 of 32.
Still forgetting Pryor as well.

Cam Newton - 585 yds
Terrelle Pryor - 576 yds
Russell Wilson - 539 yds
Colin Kaepernick - 524 yds
RG3 - 489 yds
Alex Smith - 431 yds
Andrew Luck - 377 yds
Geno Smith - 366 yds
Michael Vick - 306 yds
Ryan Tannehill - 238 yds
Ryan Fitzpatrick - 225 yds
Nick Foles - 221 yds
EJ Manuel - 186 yds
Andy Dalton - 183 yds
Jake Locker - 155 yds
That's not even getting down to Campbell, Rogers, Roethlisburger, etc -- that are ALL threats with their legs.

Everyone on this list through Vick are legit dual threats -- and the case can be made for quite a few of the other guys.

[Political Hack]

Yea, I think Ryan Tannehill, Geno Smith and Jake Locker are decent comparisons to Dak. They all have similar size, aren't "pocket passers" and they can run. Guess what? They were drafted in the first two rounds and start in the NFL...

ETA: I think Jake Locker is a really good comparison to Dak. He measured at 6'2.5 231 at the combine and completed only 55% of his passes his senior year of college. He was drafted #8 overall and starts for the Titans when healthy.

I think Tebow is the best comparison and he was taken in the 1st I believe. Doesn't mean it was a good decision.

[Political Hack]

Still forgetting Pryor as well.

Cam Newton - 585 yds
Terrelle Pryor - 576 yds
Russell Wilson - 539 yds
Colin Kaepernick - 524 yds
RG3 - 489 yds
Alex Smith - 431 yds
Andrew Luck - 377 yds
Geno Smith - 366 yds
Michael Vick - 306 yds
Ryan Tannehill - 238 yds
Ryan Fitzpatrick - 225 yds
Nick Foles - 221 yds
EJ Manuel - 186 yds
Andy Dalton - 183 yds
Jake Locker - 155 yds
That's not even getting down to Campbell, Rogers, Roethlisburger, etc -- that are ALL threats with their legs.

Everyone on this list through Vick are legit dual threats -- and the case can be made for quite a few of the other guys.

It's not about who can run and who can't. But congrats on trying to
move the goalpost... as always.

[msstate7]

I think Tebow is the best comparison and he was taken in the 1st I believe. Doesn't mean it was a good decision.

Tebow had a built in throwing flaw. Dak doesn't

[Political Hack]

6-1 odds. Who wants the action? I'm putting my money where my mouth is. Any of y'all willing to back it?

[engie]

Both of you are acting like Jeremiah short claiming Relf was a pro QB.

LOL. Hey -- I still think Tyler was the better option for us too!!1!1

Of all the people that should be talking this smack -- you are at the very back of the list.

[War Machine Dawg]

Not to mention all six of those dual threat starters were drafted within the past four years, indicating a trend despite the relatively low percentage.

Yep. Like I said, more and more colleges are starting dual threat QBs now. Unless you've got an NFL caliber pocket passer, it's the only move that makes sense to level the playing field with the increased speed of college defenses. The NFL is going to have more and more trouble finding those traditional pocket passing type QBs. Scouts are slow adjusting to the trend, but make no mistake that it is a trend.

And let's be straight, most likely Mariota & Winston will be drafted next season, so add two more dual threat starters to that number. Then you've got the guys who I wouldn't necessarily call dual threat, but are certainly mobile QBs: Tannehill, Locker, Alex Smith, Romo, Cutler, Cousins, Foles, Luck, Manuel. The NFL is trending toward mobile/dual threat QBs. Anyone denying it is ignoring reality.

[Covercorner2]

Tebow had a built in throwing flaw. Dak doesn't

THIS

[engie]

It's not about who can run and who can't. But congrats on trying to
move the goalpost... as always.

It was about dual threats in the NFL. You said there were 3. I gave you a dozen. That isn't "moving the goalposts". Moving the goalposts is saying that Dak "isn't an NFL type QB" -- and THEN trying to make a bet based on the first and second round only.

[MarketingBully01]

Cam is built for the NFL. He's not simply a 6'1" scrambler. He can make every thro, has incredible arm strength, and is one of the larger QBs in the league. If you think Wilson and Cam are of the same mold because both can run you're a blithering fool. Luck can run too. I guess he "doesn't fit the NFL mold" now either, right?

Both of you are acting like Jeremiah short claiming Relf was a pro QB.

Dak is 1000x better then Relf. There is no comparison.

[War Machine Dawg]

Tebow had a built in throwing flaw. Dak doesn't

THIS. Dak's release is short and quick. Sometimes a little too short & quick, as he short arms an easy throw occasionally. Tebow had a windup equivalent to an MLB pitcher. And despite that fact, Tebow actually won games as an NFL starter, which a whole lot of people conveniently ignore. You wanna tell me Jacksonville would've been worse with Tebow at QB last year than with whoever the hell it was they had? Because I'm not buying that shit.

[missouridawg]

fast as Vick - nope
big as Cam - nope
quick as RG3 - nope

Dak is a gutsy leader and great competitor and may win the freaking Heisman, but he's not built for the NFL game. If you don't know that, you don't understand how talent translates.


How does he compare to Russell Wilson in those categories? I think he beats him in all 3.

[msstate7]

THIS. Dak's release is short and quick. Sometimes a little too short & quick, as he short arms an easy throw occasionally. Tebow had a windup equivalent to an MLB pitcher. And despite that fact, Tebow actually won games as an NFL starter, which a whole lot of people conveniently ignore. You wanna tell me Jacksonville would've been worse with Tebow at QB last year than with whoever the hell it was they had? Because I'm not buying that shit.

Certainly wasn't knocking tebow. I love that guy

[Political Hack]

It was about dual threats in the NFL. You said there were 3. I gave you a dozen. That isn't "moving the goalposts". Moving the goalposts is saying that Dak "isn't an NFL type QB" -- and THEN trying to make a bet based on the first and second round only.

I'd don't say there were only 3 dual threats in the NFL. there you go again a buddy. you're incapable of having a discussion because you argue with what you want people to have said instead of what they did say.

[Political Hack]

Dak is 1000x better then Relf. There is no comparison.

1M times better. not even close between the two, but that doesn't make Dak a top 2 rounder. I've got my dollar bills readyf. or any of you wanting to take the bet... but y'all all know I'm right. Otherwise, it's free money, right? Step up or shut up.

[Political Hack]

How does he compare to Russell Wilson in those categories? I think he beats him in all 3.

Wilson is by far the best comparison. But he's a 1 man exception. people trying to throw Cam and Wilson into the same category just don't understand the game.

[Covercorner2]

Please explain how Dak and Jake Locker are different. I'll hang up and listen....

[Political Hack]

Please explain how Dak and Jake Locker are different. I'll hang up and listen....

locker is a lefty. that's 1.

he also played a freshman. he broke the school and conference rushing record. he had a 2-1 TD to InT ratio. and he was a tad taller... that's a few more.

I do think locker is a good comparison. I just think Dak is a better scrambler than locker. Locker may be a better down field runner though, especially at the NFL level. I just see Wilson as a stronger comparison lersonally but I can see the argument for Locker or Tebow. Coming from CDM, the pundits wi go with Tebow to start.

[shoeless joe]

I agree with hack.

Is dak a prototypical NFL qb? No
Has he proven he can consistently win in the SEC? No

After reading this thread it does appear folks are confusing the argument. If dak becomes a Drew brees Michael Vick hybrid this year then heck yeah it will be good for the team and put him on some NFL radars but people who are expecting that aren't being realistic based on what has shown to be likely.

Also, people shouldn't act like Wilson "led" his team to the Super Bowl. He managed a good offense that was carried by an unreal defense.

[Covercorner2]

I get all that. My point, though, is that Russell Wilson is not the only "exception" to the "NFL-style" quarterback category that has been drafted high and started in the NFL...

Also my point is you don't have to put up video game numbers to get drafted high as a QB, look at Locker's numbers his junior and senior year compared to what Dak did his SOPHOMORE year...

[shoeless joe]

locker is a lefty. that's 1.

he also played a freshman. he broke the school and conference rushing record. he had a 2-1 TD to InT ratio. and he was a tad taller... that's a few more.

I do think locker is a good comparison. I just think Dak is a better scrambler than locker. Locker may be a better down field runner though, especially at the NFL level. I just see Wilson as a stronger comparison lersonally but I can see the argument for Locker or Tebow. Coming from CDM, the pundits wi go with Tebow to start.

Umm...locker throws the ball left handed???

Damn...I still stand by my previous post

[HoopsDawg]

fast as Vick - nope
big as Cam - nope
quick as RG3 - nope

Dak is a gutsy leader and great competitor and may win the freaking Heisman, but he's not built for the NFL game. If you don't know that, you don't understand how talent translates.

Do you know that RG3 threw to 3 elite talents at WR in college? At least 3 are in the NFL. It's just too early to tell on Dak. He's going to play 2 more years of college ball and we will just have to see how he develops.

[thedawginme]

The averages for all QBs in the NFL combine for the past 5 years are: 6'3 223 with a 4.88 forty

Dak is 6'2 235 and I'm sure he runs faster than a 4.88 forty....

Have you ever seen Dak in person with normal shoes on? I don't think there's any way he is 6'2. Looked closer to 6' than 6'2 to me.

Also, I think folks are overestimating his throwing ability. Selective memory perhaps.

With that said, he's the best we've ever had.

[shoeless joe]

Do you know that RG3 threw to 3 elite talents at WR in college? At least 3 are in the NFL. It's just too early to tell on Dak. He's going to play 2 more years of college ball and we will just have to see how he develops.

A lot of the talents the we were led to believe that RG3 possessed appear to have been embellished quite a bit.

[Political Hack]

Have you ever seen Dak in person with normal shoes on? I don't think there's any way he is 6'2. Looked closer to 6' than 6'2 to me.

Also, I think folks are overestimating his throwing ability. Selective memory perhaps.

With that said, he's the best we've ever had.

agree on all points. He's much closer to 6' than 6'2". I'm taller than he is and I'm between 6-1 and 6-2

[Covercorner2]

A lot of the talents the we were led to believe that RG3 possessed appear to have been embellished quite a bit.

Uh, WUT

Josh Gordon led the league in receiving yards last year. Terrance Williams is the Cowboys #2 receiver. AND Kendall Wright is the Titans #1 receiver...

[HoopsDawg]

Uh, WUT

Josh Gordon led the league in receiving yards last year. Terrance Williams is the Cowboys #2 receiver. AND Kendall Wright is the Titans #1 receiver...

I believe he was commenting on RG3, not the receivers he had at Baylor. No one really knew how good those receivers were that he had at Baylor + that wide open offense. The new guy is lighting up stats too. It's like Andre Ware/David Klinger all over again.

[Covercorner2]

Oh my bad. I see

[shoeless joe]

Uh, WUT

Josh Gordon led the league in receiving yards last year. Terrance Williams is the Cowboys #2 receiver. AND Kendall Wright is the Titans #1 receiver...

I'm not disputing any of this. It makes it easier to be a heisman winner when throwing to that type talent in college. I'm saying I don't think he has shown to consistently be able to produce in the NFL. His first year he came out like gangbusters but defenses figured out that reading secondaries and being forced to pass were not his strong suit. Granted he was hurt but we saw what happened last year.

He became a media darling his last year of college and first year in the pros but sustained success is what it takes; Derek Anderson had a good year once too. Will be interesting to see what he does with the new staff in DC.

[Political Hack]

Umm...locker throws the ball left handed???

Damn...I still stand by my previous post

failure on my part. he must be ambidextrous.***

[Todd4State]

Have you ever seen Dak in person with normal shoes on? I don't think there's any way he is 6'2. Looked closer to 6' than 6'2 to me.

Also, I think folks are overestimating his throwing ability. Selective memory perhaps.

With that said, he's the best we've ever had.

I don't think people are overestimating his throwing ability but rather projecting what they think it will be based on how he improved from game one to the Liberty Bowl.

[msstate7]

A lot of the talents the we were led to believe that RG3 possessed appear to have been embellished quite a bit.

Well he was nfl roy without them

[shoeless joe]

Well he was nfl roy without them

Go back and read my next post...

He was awesome at first...defenses got tape and adjusted...he was also injured...his coordinator said they had to simplify offense for him.

I'm not saying he won't be good, but I think the norm will be somewhere between his first two years and that won't meet the hype that was created around him. If Bo Wallace is "cptn bubble screen" then RG3 is his colonel.

[dawgs]

A question answering a question can sometimes be indicative of one's confusion.

Kap, Wilson, & RG3 are possible starters that don't fit the mold. They're the rare exception. 3 of 32. That's not good odds. On the other hand you have Bree's, Manning, Luck, Brady, Ryan, Rodgers, Flacco, Big Ben, Eli, Palmer, Rivers, etc...

I don't know what "trend" or "style" or "mold" y'all are talking about but the pattern looks pretty clear to me.

Luck, Rodgers, brees, and Big Ben move pretty good and use their legs a lot to extend plays and break the pocket. They don't necessarily rack up big rushing yards, but to put them in the same category as the mannings and Brady and rivers is a bit misleading.

Also, look at the ages of the QBs you listed. What do cam, kap, RG3, and Wilson have on common? (And really Wilson is closer to the Rodgers/luck/Big Ben style of QB in using his legs)

Only 3 or so right now are true downfield running threats, but they are all <25. And the future is only producing more and more downfield running threats at QB, not less. Just look around. Within 5 years, Peyton and Brady will be retired and the transition from the true pocket passer to at least most QBs being in the luck/Rodgers mold will complete, and the downfield running threats like cam, rg3, and kap will be growing in numbers.

[msstate7]

Go back and read my next post...

He was awesome at first...defenses got tape and adjusted...he was also injured...his coordinator said they had to simplify offense for him.

I'm not saying he won't be good, but I think the norm will be somewhere between his first two years and that won't meet the hype that was created around him. If Bo Wallace is "cptn bubble screen" then RG3 is his colonel.

I think rg3 is better than you give him credit for. He essentially had no offseason last year and perhaps the worst ol in the nfl. I think he bounces back this season

[Coach34]

Our staff thinks Dakota is already a better passer than Tebow and has the same leadership qualities. What he doesnt have is Riley Cooper, Demps, Harvin, Hernandez type skill and speed at the skill positions. But we are finally solid at WR- we've come a long ****ing way since the Crooms days.

[CadaverDawg]

As of right this second, Dak isn't guaranteed to get drafted at all. He hasn't proven to be worthy of that yet. Could he ? Yes. But if you don't think his height and lack of quickness hurt him as a NFL QB, you've got blinders on. He is a bruising QB, not a Manziel, Vick, etc. he is built a little more like Newton but with less height and less passing skills AS OF RIGHT NOW. If his passing improves, he could work his way up to a 4th round pick or so... But he will never be a first rounder IMO. He is built like Tebow, but his passing accuracy isn't where Tebow's was yet. However, I think Dak has a much stronger arm than Tebow.

Bottom line, Hack is a little extreme to the negative and those acting like he's crazy are putting WAY too high of expectations on Dak. The truth lies in between more than likely.

[Political Hack]

As of right this second, Dak isn't guaranteed to get drafted at all. He hasn't proven to be worthy of that yet. Could he ? Yes. But if you don't think his height and lack of quickness hurt him as a NFL QB, you've got blinders on. He is a bruising QB, not a Manziel, Vick, etc. he is built a little more like Newton but with less height and less passing skills AS OF RIGHT NOW. If his passing improves, he could work his way up to a 4th round pick or so... But he will never be a first rounder IMO. He is built like Tebow, but his passing accuracy isn't where Tebow's was yet. However, I think Dak has a much stronger arm than Tebow.

Bottom line, Hack is a little extreme to the negative and those acting like he's crazy are putting WAY too high of expectations on Dak. The truth lies in between more than likely.

I'm not extreme to the negative. I said he has a 3rd round ceiling. you said 4th round. I'm squarely in the running for Mr. Optimistic in 2015.

[CadaverDawg]

I'm not extreme to the negative. I said he has a 3rd round ceiling. you said 4th round. I'm squarely in the running for Mr. Optimistic in 2015.

Haha, maybe so.

[Coach34]

All we know is that he damn sure has a better chance of being an NFL QB than Tyler Russell

[TexasDawg]

there's not a large enough sample size to determine whether or not he's gonna be an NFL QB

[War Machine Dawg]

All we know is that he damn sure has a better chance of being an NFL QB than Tyler Russell

Boom! Roasted.

[Political Hack]

All we know is that he damn sure has a better chance of being an NFL QB than Tyler Russell

way to continue your hate of TR. He's the equivalent of Stans in football for you. I'll never understand why someone who is a state fan loves to hate on people that gave their heart and soul to MSU.

[msstate7]

Is there an award for hijacking? I sure hijacked this one well

[Tbonewannabe]

fast as Vick - nope
big as Cam - nope
quick as RG3 - nope

Dak is a gutsy leader and great competitor and may win the freaking Heisman, but he's not built for the NFL game. If you don't know that, you don't understand how talent translates.

Dak is Tim Tebow with a NFL arm. Where he gets drafted will depend on if he has the touch that major NFL QBs have by the time he is in the draft. Dak's intangibles are at the level where he makes everyone around him better. There isn't that many QBs in the NFL like that. If he came out this year he is probably mid to late but if he keeps improving his accuracy and decision making he could be a 1st or 2nd round guy.

[Pollodawg]

way to continue your hate of TR. He's the equivalent of Stans in football for you. I'll never understand why someone who is a state fan loves to hate on people that gave their heart and soul to MSU.

Really. You just posted this? You're just as hard on Dak as Coach is on TR.

[Political Hack]

Really. You just posted this? You're just as hard on Dak as Coach is on TR.

not even close. Where have I ever ripped Dak? Called for him to benched? Said we can't win with him? Referred to him as a statue? soft? etc, etc, etc...

I praise Dak a lot. I think he's great and going to be the best QB we've ever had. I think trying to force him to unseat a 5th year Sr at the beginning of the season after missing the entire spring with injury was the stupidest shit I've ever read on a message board. And worrying about him leaving early for the NFL is a bit premature too. His conversion rate for 3rd and 4-5+ was GOD awful at the beginning of the year last season. He's improved TREMENDOUSLY, but to suggest he's potentially ready to leave for the NFL before he even starts and wins his 2nd SEC game is a little absurd, especially considering he's not a prototypical NFL QB. Winston, Petty, Mariotta, Gardner, Kiel and others are in front of him already...

Not sure why it's a knock to say "he's not the best in the world" while also saying he's the best we've ever had.

[BogeyGolfer]

there's not a large enough sample size to determine whether or not he's gonna be an NFL QB
You are correct, sir. We only know a fraction of what Dak is capable or incapable if doing. Relf was 15-7 as a starter at State, he was a winner, period. I just hope Dak can make it through the season healthy. All this NFL talk is over the top at this point. Let's have him start and beat an SEC West team first. I'm just as excited as others,but I need proof that DAK can win a big game... On a side note, I love the back and forth between Hack and engie, good stuff and great reading!

[TrueMaroon]

FYI- Chris Mortenseon just said he was wowed by Dak at the Manning Passing Academy and compared him to Mariotta, Petty, and Winston.

[Coach34]

FYI- Chris Mortenseon just said he was wowed by Dak at the Manning Passing Academy and compared him to Mariotta, Petty, and Winston.

I've been saying for 4 years Dakota is the best passing QB I've ever seen in HS. I knew he was going to be outstanding for us- I just had no idea he was such a great leader. I think he is definitely going to be drafted- but I'm hardpressed right now to think he can be a 1st-2nd rounder. We'll see what he has to show us this Fall

[CadaverDawg]

FYI- Chris Mortenseon just said he was wowed by Dak at the Manning Passing Academy and compared him to Mariotta, Petty, and Winston.

Where did he say this? Twitter?

[Pollodawg]

http://www.supertalk.fm/audio-roussel-on-prescott-wallace-at-manning-academy/


Keep that wool growing.

[spudd21]

Pete Roussell (sp) from coaching search was on H2H yesterday. He was talking about Dak lighting it up in the drills. Let the wool grow. He also pretty much said sunshine is a loaner who doesn't hang with the other guys. Or he is just a dick.


Well pollodawg beat me to it.

[CadaverDawg]

http://www.supertalk.fm/audio-roussel-on-prescott-wallace-at-manning-academy/


Keep that wool growing.

Holy crap. You could hear the giddiness in his voice talking about Dak. Boys, I'm starting to become over the top excited for this year. Thanks for linking that audio

[engie]

I just think it's foolish to try to define a ceiling for a guy that has already come as far as Dak has... That's all I'm saying. People are setting themselves up -- both the positive and negative ones -- by trying to define where the "top" is for a guy that is obviously still improving in great leaps and bounds... Sometimes you've got to let this stuff play out...

[Barking 13]

I just think it's foolish to try to define a ceiling for a guy that has already come as far as Dak has... That's all I'm saying. People are setting themselves up -- both the positive and negative ones -- by trying to define where the "top" is for a guy that is obviously still improving in great leaps and bounds... Sometimes you've got to let this stuff play out...

and as Stone Cold Steve Austin says,"That's the bottom line"!

[hells bells]

I don't think anyone is predicting this, just that it's possible and that Dak may be making moves to try to do it. Johnny Manziel was just taken in the 1st round...a tiny guy without a great arm or great speed who Texas didn't even think could play QB in COLLEGE. Think about that.

This conversation gives me heartburn. It has gone from a Chip Reno tweet to Dak and the NFL argument. Can we just let the man play football and let us enjoy what could be a amazing year. Get your crystal balls out after the season and predict the future, for now remove your head from your ass.

[shoeless joe]

I just think it's foolish to try to define a ceiling for a guy that has already come as far as Dak has... That's all I'm saying. People are setting themselves up -- both the positive and negative ones -- by trying to define where the "top" is for a guy that is obviously still improving in great leaps and bounds... Sometimes you've got to let this stuff play out...

Exactly

[CadaverDawg]

This conversation gives me heartburn. It has gone from a Chip Reno tweet to Dak and the NFL argument. Can we just let the man play football and let us enjoy what could be a amazing year. Get your crystal balls out after the season and predict the future, for now remove your head from your ass.

This^^