*****2014 Domestic Abuse Award (Runoff)*****

[CadaverDawg]

Not sure if anybody realized it, but we had a tie in the Domestic Abuse Award. The two that tied were Todd and Will James, and I Seen it and Will James. Obviously, many will be disappointed to know that Will James will be going home with some hardware in this one since he is involved in both of these domestic disputes.

So here's how the runoff will work. The voting will start right now, but I encourage you members of the board to allow each of these posters to explain just what causes such a disagreement between them and their abuse mate, before making your vote.

It would be very helpful if Todd, Will/Pioneer, and I Seen It, will write a brief explanation of what drives them the most crazy about their opposite, and what most of the arguments seem to be about. At that point, the board and I are hoping like hell that you guys will have one of your patented arguments in this thread and help us all make our decision.

This vote will not close until 2 days from the start of this thread. Enjoy.


Todd, Will, I seen it....someone please get things started for us when you can.

[Dawg61]

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[CadaverDawg]

http://i.imgur.com/7mTVVrg.gif

[Pioneer Dawg]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/wrong.gif

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I think I'm an underrated giffer

[Pioneer Dawg]

http://www.baseballsavings.com/images/products/accessories/rawlings/1129/image.jpg

+

http://www.ari.org/App_Content/ahri/images/Statistics/canstockphoto7351376-landingpage.jpg

= I Seen It

http://media.giphy.com/media/A8nLow7DRwluU/giphy.gif

[CadaverDawg]

Haha, excellent start. Awaiting your view of Todd, and both of their responses

[I seen it dawg]

Did you have any doubt he would go all out? He's too stupid to realize he will win the award no matter what.

[I seen it dawg]

http://www.baseballsavings.com/images/products/accessories/rawlings/1129/image.jpg

+

http://www.ari.org/App_Content/ahri/images/Statistics/canstockphoto7351376-landingpage.jpg

= I Seen It

http://media.giphy.com/media/A8nLow7DRwluU/giphy.gif

You're beneath arguing with on the subject of baseball. Stats are all you know and everyone knows you can't play the game strictly on a computer. You'll never be able to understand the true game of baseball which makes you trivial at this point. Have fun.

[Pioneer Dawg]

You're beneath arguing with on the subject of baseball. Stats are all you know and everyone knows you can't play the game strictly on a computer. You'll never be able to understand the true game of baseball which makes you trivial at this point. Have fun.

I think its just because you get owned in every argument..

[I seen it dawg]

I think its just because you get owned in every argument..

Whatever you think kid

[CadaverDawg]

So what was it that had you two arguing in the baseball thread? The lineup? What was that all about?

And Pioneer....How about a GIF showing what you think of Todd

[I seen it dawg]

So what was it that had you two arguing in the baseball thread? The lineup? What was that all about?

And Pioneer....How about a GIF showing what you think of Todd

A synopsis is he doesn't know jackshit about the actual beauty of the game being played on the field. He knows a lot about grabbing stats off the internet and using certain ones to bolster his arguments even though there is no relevance of said stat in the actual play of the game. I'm tired of arguing with the ****ing idiot. Because he is incapable of being anything more than an idiot.

[Pioneer Dawg]

I think Todd is someone that loves the game as he knows it. I think he wants so badly for the game to be the way that he sees it, which leads him to see things he wants to see. I think he has trouble when presented with evidence that goes outside of his window of baseball. Since I naturally despise memes and the "conventional wisdom" this leads to many debates.

I Seen It is useful in informing other people about advanced thinking in baseball. Where Todd doesn't have any idiocy come out, ISID puts it on full display leading people to not say "it's Todd so he's right" or "it's Will so he's wrong"... rather they see "Will makes such logical sense with his arguments and since ISID cannot refute them he resorts to meaningless platitudes like 'you just dont understand the game''

[I seen it dawg]

You won't have to worry about it too much longer.

[Pioneer Dawg]

You won't have to worry about it too much longer.

If I cause you so much angst why don't you just hit the ignore button

[I seen it dawg]

If I cause you so much angst why don't you just hit the ignore button

No angst at all. And I don't have to ignore anyone. Carry on.

[CadaverDawg]

You won't have to worry about it too much longer.

What's this mean? You bout to drop the hammer?

[Pioneer Dawg]

What's this mean? You bout to drop the hammer?

You know what, if it bothers him so much I'll just take off till Fall Ball. Everyone is shaking their heads at his pettiness. You got mod power, great, hope it makes you feel good. When people said my Will James ban was stupid he goes and threatens to ban them.. Everyone's scared to call him out, whatever. Run it the way you want to run it pal.

[CadaverDawg]

You know what, if it bothers him so much I'll just take off till Fall Ball. Everyone is shaking their heads at his pettiness. You got mod power, great, hope it makes you feel good. When people said my Will James ban was stupid he goes and threatens to ban them.. Everyone's scared to call him out, whatever. Run it the way you want to run it pal.

Was that directed at ISID?

[TheRef]

Was that directed at ISID?

Had to be....

[Todd4State]

Here's how I see it, and I know everyone is wanting me to drop a nuke or something- but I'll be honest.

I think sabermetric is good and it has a lot of interesting things and whatnot. But I think the first thing you have to ask yourself with any stat is "OK, what is this telling me and how is it applicable?"

Now my next point about baseball and stats is this: There are broad stats (league wide, etc.) and then there are individual stats. You can use both in baseball- but with broad stats, those are a general guide. Let's say it's sac bunting causes you to not score as many runs. But ultimately, you manage a game based on the individuals and the situation. In other words, hitter, pitcher, and the game situation score, inning, etc. And I think that's where a lot of the disconnect is. What Pioneer sees is "you should never sac bunt". What I see is for example a hitter like Sam Frost facing a pitcher like Aaron Nola with no one out and a runner on first in the seventh inning in a 1-1 game with Adam Frazier on deck. So, in that instance the fact that Sam Frost is more likely to make an out and not advance the runner or worse hit into a double play trumps the fact that the broad overall stat says you should never bunt.

And it can work both ways. Let's say it's the same situation but Hunter Renfroe is hitting instead of Frost and to make it realistic let's say Rea is on deck instead of Frazier. So, what do you do in that situation? Of course you're going to hit because Renfroe has a much better chance of hitting a home run off of Nola than he does getting a bunt down.

The way to maximize your talent is to know your players and what they can do. Sabermetrics says that you should steal minimally. But if you have a bunch of guys that can run and steal bases and you don't run them because of a broad stat, you're wasting what your players can do.

So, for me, it's not so much what I "want" to see as much as it is I see what players can and can't do and believe that we should use their strengths. If a guy is a really good bunter and can get it into those areas where a high percentage of bunts go for hits, why not let him do it? If a guy can steal a lot of bases why not let him do it? If a guy is a really good power hitter, why not let him swing away? Because sabermetrics says you shouldn't bunt or steal?

I think Pioneer a lot of times makes the mistake of seeing the broad and then trying to apply it to the individual situation every time. I do think he tries to bait people and make them mad and I don't like it when anyone does that. He apparently has every post I've made on speed dial in the search feature, which is a little bit weird to me but whatever. I'm used to being stalked, but it's usually by the Victoria's Secret models, but whatever.** I'm not sure if he really believes that I have an "agenda" or not, which I thought was a little bizarre as well. My agenda is to talk about MSU and baseball. Like most everyone else on here. I don't really know what Pioneer is going for as far as Internet cred or whatever, but I will say that if you are right about things most of the time- if we're all honest NONE of us are right every time and can have something thrown back in our face at some point in time- but if you are right most of the time, you don't have to go around tooting your horn and making posts about all the things you got right.

[CadaverDawg]

Here's how I see it, and I know everyone is wanting me to drop a nuke or something- but I'll be honest.

I think sabermetric is good and it has a lot of interesting things and whatnot. But I think the first thing you have to ask yourself with any stat is "OK, what is this telling me and how is it applicable?"

Now my next point about baseball and stats is this: There are broad stats (league wide, etc.) and then there are individual stats. You can use both in baseball- but with broad stats, those are a general guide. Let's say it's sac bunting causes you to not score as many runs. But ultimately, you manage a game based on the individuals and the situation. In other words, hitter, pitcher, and the game situation score, inning, etc. And I think that's where a lot of the disconnect is. What Pioneer sees is "you should never sac bunt". What I see is for example a hitter like Sam Frost facing a pitcher like Aaron Nola with no one out and a runner on first in the seventh inning in a 1-1 game with Adam Frazier on deck. So, in that instance the fact that Sam Frost is more likely to make an out and not advance the runner or worse hit into a double play trumps the fact that the broad overall stat says you should never bunt.

And it can work both ways. Let's say it's the same situation but Hunter Renfroe is hitting instead of Frost and to make it realistic let's say Rea is on deck instead of Frazier. So, what do you do in that situation? Of course you're going to hit because Renfroe has a much better chance of hitting a home run off of Nola than he does getting a bunt down.

The way to maximize your talent is to know your players and what they can do. Sabermetrics says that you should steal minimally. But if you have a bunch of guys that can run and steal bases and you don't run them because of a broad stat, you're wasting what your players can do.

So, for me, it's not so much what I "want" to see as much as it is I see what players can and can't do and believe that we should use their strengths. If a guy is a really good bunter and can get it into those areas where a high percentage of bunts go for hits, why not let him do it? If a guy can steal a lot of bases why not let him do it? If a guy is a really good power hitter, why not let him swing away? Because sabermetrics says you shouldn't bunt or steal?

I think Pioneer a lot of times makes the mistake of seeing the broad and then trying to apply it to the individual situation every time. I do think he tries to bait people and make them mad and I don't like it when anyone does that. He apparently has every post I've made on speed dial in the search feature, which is a little bit weird to me but whatever. I'm used to being stalked, but it's usually by the Victoria's Secret models, but whatever.** I'm not sure if he really believes that I have an "agenda" or not, which I thought was a little bizarre as well. My agenda is to talk about MSU and baseball. Like most everyone else on here. I don't really know what Pioneer is going for as far as Internet cred or whatever, but I will say that if you are right about things most of the time- if we're all honest NONE of us are right every time and can have something thrown back in our face at some point in time- but if you are right most of the time, you don't have to go around tooting your horn and making posts about all the things you got right.

Excellent breakdown

[Todd4State]

I think Todd is someone that loves the game as he knows it. I think he wants so badly for the game to be the way that he sees it, which leads him to see things he wants to see. I think he has trouble when presented with evidence that goes outside of his window of baseball. Since I naturally despise memes and the "conventional wisdom" this leads to many debates.

I Seen It is useful in informing other people about advanced thinking in baseball. Where Todd doesn't have any idiocy come out, ISID puts it on full display leading people to not say "it's Todd so he's right" or "it's Will so he's wrong"... rather they see "Will makes such logical sense with his arguments and since ISID cannot refute them he resorts to meaningless platitudes like 'you just dont understand the game''

To me, Moneyball is one of the, if not the biggest meme in baseball.

And there's nothing wrong with Moneyball- but a lot of people don't realize that you have to have power hitters in the lineup to make it work out well.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/OAK/2002.shtml

Edit to say you have to be careful about not being closed minded with baseball. I think KB21 said something in the longest thread ever about how your leadoff guy should be an OBP guy and MLB managers still usually go with a speed guy or something to that effect. But why can't you have a guy that hits for a high OBP AND can steal a lot of bases? Why does it have to be a guy like Matt Carpenter and not a guy like Ichiro?

[I seen it dawg]

You know what, if it bothers him so much I'll just take off till Fall Ball. Everyone is shaking their heads at his pettiness. You got mod power, great, hope it makes you feel good. When people said my Will James ban was stupid he goes and threatens to ban them.. Everyone's scared to call him out, whatever. Run it the way you want to run it pal.

Dude I don't give a shit what you do. If it bothered me as much as you think it does you would take off permanently and not until fall ball. Not one person sent me a msg and stuck up for wj when that ban happened. Not one. The only time I ever feel like using my mod authority is with you because I know it gets in your ass and you pitch such a bitch. And people sacred? Come on man it's a message board, I would be offended by your take on that if I were the other posters to think it's a scary situation to disagree with someone.

Ban you, let you stay and ignore you, it doesn't really matter either way it's not a big deal. If I ban you anyone pissed could raise hell about it and leave...then what? In a few days they come right back and get back into the board and forget you were here. Same as if I decided to disappear. I seen it forgotten about. The board would go on because it's a great board as a whole with a lot of great bulldogs and way bigger than your stupid ass and my scary self. NO ONE WOULD CARE. Get over your over inflated sense of self.

[ScoobaDawg]

Dude I don't give a shit what you do. If it bothered me as much as you think it does you would take off permanently and not until fall ball. Not one person sent me a msg and stuck up for wj when that ban happened. Not one. The only time I ever feel like using my mod authority is with you because I know it gets in your ass and you pitch such a bitch. And people sacred? Come on man it's a message board, I would be offended by your take on that if I were the other posters to think it's a scary situation to disagree with someone.

Ban you, let you stay and ignore you, it doesn't really matter either way it's not a big deal. If I ban you anyone pissed could raise hell about it and leave...then what? In a few days they come right back and get back into the board and forget you were here. Same as if I decided to disappear. I seen it forgotten about. The board would go on because it's a great board as a whole with a lot of great bulldogs and way bigger than your stupid ass and my scary self. NO ONE WOULD CARE. Get over your over inflated sense of self.

http://mkgmediagroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/conanclap.gif

[FISHDAWG]

so when does a poll come up on just how many here would want WJ banned ?