Snap Count Limits for Mobile QB's

[codeDawg]

I was listening to some sports talk discussions about how well San Antonio managed minutes for their aging roster through the season and playoffs. They were equating that attention to minutes played to pitch counts in MLB, college, and even down in HS and lower leagues. They were saying we should expect more teams to manage minutes the way SA had done this year.

I've wondered in the past if it is better to keep a mobile QB in a game you are leading for experience, or if he should be on the bench avoiding contact. Should you consciously rotate in guys in certain situations, run wildcat plays, or call more away from the QB plays when the hit counts start piling up?

We've had every mobile QB on our roster limited because of injury since Mullen has been here. Relf was not the same his Sr. season, TR was obviously broken last year and Dak missed play as well late in the season with injury.

You can't prevent every injury. There are plays where a guy is just going to get hit and it's going to hurt them. That's part of the game, but if their body has taken less of a beating in previous games a hit that may be a tear, might just be a strain with a little less play time. Maybe the guy can go deeper into the Bama game if he hasn't played 3 quarters against Southern, UAB, and Sister Mary's School for the Blind.

Thoughts?

[engie]

By number of "plays" last year -- meaning rushes or passes(not handoffs where guys should absolutely not get hit) last year in FBS...

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20140708-o42i-98kb.jpg

As can be shown, most of the "best" QBs also played the most snaps. The exceptions being pro-style execution type offenses like Bortles, Winston, and Bridgewater. And, for the most part, those guys' snaps were still limited because they were destroying most teams they played.

College football is 12 games -- not 82. These kids are 18-22 -- not 35+. If you've got an elite QB, you play him in dang near every snap till games are put away IMO.

[codeDawg]

Playing devil's advocate here, what you are showing is a list of guys that didn't get hurt and were able to get all those plays in. You have to go down to number 12 in Manzel (freak) and 13 in Bo Wallace (shoulder) before you get to a team playing against SEC defenses. I think you are right that the reps are fewer and the ages are younger, but you can't argue with the injuries we've had at the position over the past few years.

I think the answer is somewhere in between. I think you play Dak no more than a half against the cupcakes. You put the the teams you can away early and get the backup in, and you don't let him run when you are in control of the game. I would rather have Dak playing healthy in the Bama game than getting stats against Southern.

[starkvegasdawg]

The only time I ever think it's ok to pull an elite QB or any position player for that matter is when the outcome of the game is no longer in doubt and they're just out there padding stats. I know we all would love to see Dak get a NYC invite and to do that he would probably need to stay in some of those type games just to pad stats, but if he were to do that and get a knee blown out with five minutes to play against South Alabama with us up 52-10 we would have a mob with pitch forks and torches waiting on Mullen when the bus pulled back in. It's a fine line coaches walk. They want the fans to enjoy the game and see the stars play but they also have to protect for the future by keeping the stars healthy and getting the backups some game reps.

[thf24]

I don't know about limiting minutes that are in any way significant. But I think at the very least, QB's should be taught to slide whenever the option is available to them, whether it's a scramble or a designed run, unless it would mean the difference between a first down/touchdown or not. It seems like it's a taboo among most QB's to slide on a designed run, and while there's something to be said for that in terms of toughness, in my opinion it greatly increases the possibility of injury needlessly.

[Goat Holder]

I agree with both the posts so far. When you have a stud QB, you play him all you can. But in our offense, you also have to look at reality. It's not like we have an offense that utilizes an ELUSIVE QB....rather, we use Prescott has a bruiser. I'm not certain if that's the offense or what, because Alex Smith wasn't exactly a 'bruising' runner. But there's no doubt that's what Prescott/Tebow were. Maybe it's just more the player than anything. That said, Prescott HAS been hurt. Tebow never did get injured.

So, acknowledging all that, I think it's smart to play the backups whenever possible. We aren't trying to win the highlight reels and rack up stats against sisters of the poor. Put in Williams as soon as we are up 3 TDs against all subpar opponents.

HOWEVER....and a big however.....what we cannot do is get away from running Prescott. That's his strength. Yeah, he may get hurt, but you still have to do it. We should not get cute like a lot of teams around the country, and try to prepare him for the draft or some shit. Play to his strengths and it all works out.

[thf24]

One thing to remember specifically in Dak's case is that his injury last year was a freak thing owing to the circumstances of a single hit, not necessarily something that resulted from repeated and excessive contact. I don't think last year makes him "injury prone" as I think many of us have labeled him to varying degrees, myself included. Would we be having this conversation if not for that one stinger?

[starkvegasdawg]

To me, that is more reason to pull him from out of hand games. As you just said, one hit can put a player out. They don't have to be injury prone for that to happen, either. I obviously do not know Dak...never met him...but from what I have seen he seems to me to be the type person that puts team accomplishments ahead of individual accomplishments. I think he would rather play for a spot in the 4 team playoffs than get an invitation to NYC as a Heisman finalist.

[FISHDAWG]

Engie for resident statistician

[thf24]

To me, that is more reason to pull him from out of hand games. As you just said, one hit can put a player out. They don't have to be injury prone for that to happen, either. I obviously do not know Dak...never met him...but from what I have seen he seems to me to be the type person that puts team accomplishments ahead of individual accomplishments. I think he would rather play for a spot in the 4 team playoffs than get an invitation to NYC as a Heisman finalist.

Good point, and it's definitely a great reason to pull him, or any starting QB, the moment the outcome of the game is certain. But I don't think he should be considered so injury prone that we need to consider limiting meaningful minutes.

[War Machine Dawg]

One thing to remember specifically in Dak's case is that his injury last year was a freak thing owing to the circumstances of a single hit, not necessarily something that resulted from repeated and excessive contact. I don't think last year makes him "injury prone" as I think many of us have labeled him to varying degrees, myself included. Would we be having this conversation if not for that one stinger?

Exactly. Last year's injury was a fluke moreso than anything else. Can't really hold that against him. That said, assuming the game is well in hand, he shouldn't play more than 1-2 drives into the 3rd Quarter against USM, USA, etc. If he got hurt late against one of them with the game in hand, Mullen should rightfully be flogged at the stake. That said, I don't expect Mullen to leave him in longer than needed. We know Williams can play, and Mullen likes to use those late game blowout situations as teaching opportunities for his backup QBs and to get them actual game experience. You can practice all you want, but nothing is going to completely simulate game situations other than playing in games.

[Johnson85]

College football is 12 games -- not 82. These kids are 18-22 -- not 35+. If you've got an elite QB, you play him in dang near every snap till games are put away IMO.

The wear and tear will show up down the road, probably not in college unless a coach is just riding a player in a ridiculous manner. For our QB's, well before we worry about wear and tear, we will be worried about limiting the chances for an injury from a single play and getting back-ups experience.

To me there are huge advantages to getting back-ups experience in college, both because it gives you a viable alternative in case of injury, keeps your players fresh, and also keeps your young players engaged and developing.

QB is the biggest challenge though because most college qb's have so much to learn they can get a lot out of continuing to play in games that are in hand. You sometimes run into the same issue at other positions (I assume Bear Wilson will continue to benefit greatly from getting snaps even when the game is in hand to help him further develop his feel for the game) but not like you do at QB.

And the opposite extreme is RB. That's probably the one position where even if you won't see the wear and tear in college, their NFL window is so short you owe it to your NFL quality backs to limit the beating they take and the learning curve is not quite as steep outside of blocking.

[Martianlander]

Hopefully our running backs can give Dak some relief on running the ball but you still have to go to him a reasonable amount because he's the "go to" guy in our offense. Pull him when the game is no longer in doubt.

[Todd4State]

I wouldn't limit Dak's action. I would maybe try to limit him running to no more than 12 times a game on average so that we can use his running ability and take advantage of it. To me, it's only an issue if we run him seemingly every play like we did against Auburn. If we did that, he would end up like JJ Johnson.

The best thing to do is be able to pass the ball and use the running backs. When you are able to pass the ball, then the defense can't put nine in the box and just key in on the QB running the ball as much. Dak is certainly progressing there and we have weapons like Bear, Jameon, Morrow, Robert and Malcolm Johnson to produce. I think Perkins hurt Dak in this regard in that I'm pretty sure when we ran option plays there is a split second where the QB has to decide whether to keep it or pitch it, and I imagine the probability of picking up more yardage comes into play during that split second, and more often than not, that was Dak. With Robinson, I think it will be different and I suspect we will see Dak pitching the ball more this year. Also, Robinson will probably get more yards per carry than Perkins which will put us hopefully in better situations on offense in general.

If we run our offense like we did in the Liberty Bowl, I'm not going to be too worried about it.

[Goat Holder]

Hopefully our running backs can give Dak some relief on running the ball

That's my hope. If they would step up then there wouldn't be any need to go to Dak in every single situation, no matter how predictable. They couldn't get it done last year, hope J-Rob is finally ready. He's sure gotten enough hype based on not a whole lot, up to this point.

[SallyStansbury]

Another thing we have to do is 1. vary our play calling (limit predictability) and 2. go for the kill. Just because we are MSU and can seemingly steam-roll a team like USM or La-Tech or whomever doesn't mean we should go ultra conservative WRT play calling. When teams like that know exactly what is coming at them (on offense anyway) it allows them to defend it better than they should and shitty teams like these get to hang around and get beaten 24-20 with Dak playing all four quarters. The hits he takes in these games, that shouldn't have even been close in the first place, will piss me off.

[Offshore Dawg]

Another thing we have to do is 1. vary our play calling (limit predictability) and 2. go for the kill. Just because we are MSU and can seemingly steam-roll a team like USM or La-Tech or whomever doesn't mean we should go ultra conservative WRT play calling. When teams like that know exactly what is coming at them (on offense anyway) it allows them to defend it better than they should and shitty teams like these get to hang around and get beaten 24-20 with Dak playing all four quarters. The hits he takes in these games, that shouldn't have even been close in the first place, will piss me off.


I seemed like they learned that lesson in the Liberty bowl.

[Coach34]

Dakota Prescott is going to run the football 175 times in 2014 and be our leading carrier. Write it down and remember I told you.

[SallyStansbury]

Dakota Prescott is going to run the football 175 times in 2014 and be our leading carrier. Write it down and remember I told you.

I am not disagreeing with you. I think what you have stated will be the case and if by some miracle Dak makes it through the season without his ass getting kicked, I will be pleased with Mullen. If Dak takes a bunch of what I consider avoidable hits against the bullshit teams in the first three games on our schedule, and is limping around for the especially important games and the final three games vs. Vandy, AL, and Miss, then I will be disappointed. Maybe whichever FR doesn't redshirt or Williams will be good enough? I hope that is the case.

[engie]

Dak is going to get smarter about taking licks as he gets more experienced. This is common.

I still don't understand the "injury prone" label with one freak "contact with the ground" nerve pinching on a 10 yard first down run. Dak is built to take the hits.