Will Clark in the booth now at Derby [Archive]

Dawg61

07-03-2014, 09:36 PM

Why Will Clark is one of my favorite players of all time. He is one of the best ambassadors for MSU baseball out there.

I loved Will Clark's swing, demeanor, attitude when he played. Fierce competitor and one of the most clutch post-season hitters of all-time I believe. Not quite HOF but a damn good baseball player.

Todd4State

07-03-2014, 09:47 PM

Yes, Will is loved in St. Louis. I think he hit like .400 something for the Cardinals in 2000.

Dawg61

07-03-2014, 09:58 PM

Yes, Will is loved in St. Louis. I think he hit like .400 something for the Cardinals in 2000.

Yea he was Giant for y'all.** Clark singlehandedly beat the Cubs in the NLCS

http://youtu.be/xPR_7jS2YyU

War Machine Dawg

07-03-2014, 10:00 PM

Yes, Will is loved in St. Louis. I think he hit like .400 something for the Cardinals in 2000.

I'll always believe one of the worst things to happen to Will was spending almost the entire prime of his career in the AL. And I'll always wonder how good he could've been if he hadn't hated conditioning and not spent so much time on the DL. He's still probably my all time favorite athlete regardless of sport. I'm sure he's the reason I bat lefty even though I'm naturally a righty (no one could make me hit righty when I was learning the game) and why I always wore #22.

Dawg61

07-03-2014, 10:14 PM

Will played 8 seasons with the Giants, 5 with the Rangers, 1.5 with the Orioles and 1 with the Cardinals. Will Clark will always be a SF Giant in my eyes haha

Todd4State

07-03-2014, 10:22 PM

I'll always believe one of the worst things to happen to Will was spending almost the entire prime of his career in the AL. And I'll always wonder how good he could've been if he hadn't hated conditioning and not spent so much time on the DL. He's still probably my all time favorite athlete regardless of sport. I'm sure he's the reason I bat lefty even though I'm naturally a righty (no one could make me hit righty when I was learning the game) and why I always wore #22.

Well, he played during the steroid era, but based on the eye test, I don't think he used them. So really it wasn't a level playing field in that regard.

War Machine Dawg

07-03-2014, 10:35 PM

Well, he played during the steroid era, but based on the eye test, I don't think he used them. So really it wasn't a level playing field in that regard.

This is also true. He had the beer gut working. Somehow I don't think he'd have had that going if he'd been using 'roids.

Pioneer Dawg

07-03-2014, 10:41 PM

Clark was a better hitter than Palmeiro. Especially when roids factor in.

Dawg61

07-03-2014, 10:53 PM

Clark was a better hitter than Palmeiro. Especially when roids factor in.

http://files.sharenator.com/wut_dog-s444x287-92427.png

Palmeiro had 300 more homeruns and 600 more RBI than Clark. Will was a great hitter and very clutch in the postseason but you're joking right. Palmeiro would be 1st ballot HOF if not for 1 failed test.

shoeless joe

07-03-2014, 11:07 PM

Clark once said the only drug he was on during his career was coors lightostene...gotta love the thrill!

onetl

07-03-2014, 11:13 PM

Raffo had the sweetest swing since Ted Williams!

I seen it dawg

07-03-2014, 11:14 PM

Clark was a better hitter than Palmeiro. Especially when roids factor in.

No way stats were involved in this one.

Pioneer Dawg

07-03-2014, 11:15 PM

Overall production 61. People forget just how far ahead Clark was when they first broke out in 1986. Clark was a machine while it took Rafy a few years and some enhancements to roll in the pros. Just look season to season and you can see it. In their primes Clark was a 1st ballot Hall of Famer and Rafy still borderline.

Its really not close for me who the better hitter was.

Pioneer Dawg

07-03-2014, 11:19 PM

The only player to have a better final year of their career than Clark is Barry Bonds

Pioneer Dawg

07-03-2014, 11:22 PM

No way stats were involved in this one.

Cheerleading again I see. Had to wait for Dawg61 to post first. Can't come up with your own original thoughts or points.

Dawg61

07-03-2014, 11:25 PM

Dawg61

07-03-2014, 11:29 PM

The only player to have a better final year of their career than Clark is Barry Bonds

You smoking trees tonight? Puff puff pass brother. Clark had 70 RBI and 21 HR his last season. Nellie Cruz, Abreu and Edwin have that beat before this year's All-Star Break.

Pioneer Dawg

07-03-2014, 11:32 PM

You smoking trees tonight? Puff puff pass brother. Clark had 70 RBI and 21 HR his last season. Nellie Cruz, Abreu and Edwin have that beat before this year's All-Star Break.

It's not the final year of Cruz Edwin and Abreu's careers either.

Todd4State

07-03-2014, 11:35 PM

Todd4State

07-03-2014, 11:36 PM

Clark once said the only drug he was on during his career was coors lightostene...gotta love the thrill!

Nice shot at Palmeiro as well.

Pioneer Dawg

07-03-2014, 11:37 PM

Most HR Clark ever hit in one season was 35. Palmeiro had TEN seasons of more than 35 HR.

Well if baseball were determined by either hit a HR or you're out you would have a point here. Why are you held up on HR and eapecially RBI?

Better hitter this year, Mark Reynolds or Hunter Pence? Reynolds has more HR...

Pioneer Dawg

07-03-2014, 11:40 PM

Going back to their days at MSU, Palmeiro was ahead of Clark initially until after the 1984 season. Palmeiro was the first guy to win the SEC triple crown, but then had a down year in 1985 while Clark picked it up and was better until around 1993 or so, and then it shifted back to Palmeiro.

Right. The shift happens basically at the midpoint of Clark's career. Raffys worst was worse than Clark's and Raffys best doesn't touch Clark's best.

At their BEST, Clark wins... Easily.

Dawg61

07-03-2014, 11:49 PM

Well if baseball were determined by either hit a HR or you're out you would have a point here. Why are you held up on HR and eapecially RBI?

Better hitter this year, Mark Reynolds or Hunter Pence? Reynolds has more HR...

Because the discrepancy is so large. Palmeiro has almost 300 more homeruns than Clark. He more than doubles Clark's total. That's a gigantic amount. Will batted .303 and Palm batted .288. That's pretty close. Palmeiro did much much much more damage in his career. It's not even debatable. 569 Homeruns Palmeiro had.

Dawg61

07-03-2014, 11:53 PM

Right. The shift happens basically at the midpoint of Clark's career. Raffys worst was worse than Clark's and Raffys best doesn't touch Clark's best.

At their BEST, Clark wins... Easily.

Ten seasons. TEN!! Ten seasons better than Clark's BEST single season. 4 times Clark had 100 or more RBI. Palmeiro did that ten times.

Pioneer Dawg

07-04-2014, 12:01 AM

Ten seasons. TEN!! Ten seasons better than Clark's BEST single season. 4 times Clark had 100 or more RBI. Palmeiro did that ten times.

I could care less how many RBI's someone has

Dawg61

07-04-2014, 12:07 AM

Raffys best doesn't touch Clark's best. At their BEST, Clark wins... Easily.

Really? Clark's best season ever he hit .333 AVG, 21 HR, 111 RBI, .407 OBP, .546 SLG, .953 OPS

Palmeiro's best season he hit .324 AVG, 47 HR, 148 RBI, .420 OBP, .630 SLG, 1.050 OPS

Pioneer Dawg

07-04-2014, 12:13 AM

Really? Clark's best season ever he hit .333 AVG, 21 HR, 111 RBI, .407 OBP, .546 SLG, .953 OPS

Palmeiro's best season he hit .324 AVG, 47 HR, 148 RBI, .420 OBP, .630 SLG, 1.050 OPS

1. Run scoring/Offensive environment was different in those 2 years.
2. One did it with Coors. The other with "juice"

3. Compare their best 5 year stretch is more along the lines of what I was getting at.

Pioneer Dawg

07-04-2014, 12:21 AM

Also have to take park factors into account. Clark in Candlestick was MUCH tougher than Raffy in the heart of the juice era in Camden.

If Bonds played for Baltimore he would have hit 90. That he did that playing in PAC Bell Park was truly amazing.

Homedawg

07-04-2014, 12:22 AM

Most HR Clark ever hit in one season was 35. Palmeiro had TEN seasons of more than 35 HR.

I think the point is- and we will never know what would have happened- that palmeiro did his under the influence and Clark didn't. Clark's body broke down and palmeiro flurished in the latter stages.

Dawg61

07-04-2014, 12:24 AM

1. Run scoring/Offensive environment was different in those 2 years.
2. One did it with Coors. The other with "juice"

3. Compare their best 5 year stretch is more along the lines of what I was getting at.

No you are just totally throwing out Palmeiro because of one test. You just said that "Raffy's best doesn't touch Clark's best. At their BEST, Clark wins…Easily." and I just showed you that you could not be anymore wrong in that statement. The numbers are only going to get worse for Clark when you compare their best 5 year stretch. The only time Will outperformed Raffy was at the beginning of their careers but that's the thing about CAREERS. They aren't only about the beginning or one year or five years. They are about the entirety of the career. All of it. Palmeiro slaughters Clark here.

Dawg61

07-04-2014, 12:35 AM

They both had great careers. I'm am proud they are both MSU bulldogs and I'm done with this debate.

Schultzy

07-04-2014, 08:59 AM

Well, he played during the steroid era, but based on the eye test, I don't think he used them. So really it wasn't a level playing field in that regard.
You beat me to it, in a steroid free baseball era he would've made the Hall.

Goat Holder

07-04-2014, 09:08 AM

We really need to get that ship. We literally have everything else in college baseball.

whosyourdawgy

07-04-2014, 09:18 AM

My take on this is this. As far as meeting both. And I have talked to many that were in college with them. Will Clark was a phenomenal baseball player but a gigantic arrogant asshole and still is. Raffy was a phenomenal baseball player but a very well liked and easy to talk to man that would take time to talk and take pics Why he decided he had to use roids is still a mystery. He would've been a hall of famer without using them. One of those shake your head things. Also if Will is such a great ambassador for MSU, how is he helping give back? All you have to do is look at that big ass building by Dudy Noble to see who is really the one that loves MSU.

That being said I am a SF Giants fan til this day because of Will the Thrill. I still have a poster rolled up in my attic of that sweet swing that says The Thrill under it.

I seen it dawg

07-04-2014, 09:25 AM

Cheerleading again I see. Had to wait for Dawg61 to post first. Can't come up with your own original thoughts or points.

You are hung up on these damn awards aren't you.

Ok Mr Original....convince me, using your baseball knowledge, of your stance in this debate. Because it think you are wrong.

AlSwearengen

07-04-2014, 10:07 AM

Clark had a pretty bad elbow injury early on (second pro season maybe). I've heard it mentioned that it affected his approach and that was a big part of why his hr numbers were relatively low throughout his career. Considering he hit 35 hr's his first year, there may be some validity to that.

sandjunky

07-04-2014, 10:14 AM

No you are just totally throwing out Palmeiro because of one test. You just said that "Raffy's best doesn't touch Clark's best. At their BEST, Clark wins…Easily." and I just showed you that you could not be anymore wrong in that statement. The numbers are only going to get worse for Clark when you compare their best 5 year stretch. The only time Will outperformed Raffy was at the beginning of their careers but that's the thing about CAREERS. They aren't only about the beginning or one year or five years. They are about the entirety of the career. All of it. Palmeiro slaughters Clark here.
Damn right I would throw out a large majority due to a single test. He's the one that got in front if congress and lied...only to get popped not long after. He just never got caught until then. He was one of baseballs useful idiots that got "used" until congress started talking "tax exempt" status, so MLB had to show it was making progress. I guarandamtee you most test were thrown out until the Feds started investigating baseballs problem.

Do I have an issue with Steroids in baseball? Hell no! "Chicks dig the long ball" Even Maddox was on that bandwagon.... Baseball needed anything to help baseball revive it's image after the strike and the home run did that with the aid of andro and other steroids...

Bully13

07-04-2014, 10:47 AM

it amazes me how some MSU fans treat Palmeiro. you would think he went to ole miss and built THEM a ton of athletic facility shit. I dislike roids as much as the next fan but I'm just not going to dwell on that aspect. it's over, it's done, and none of us knows exactly what he took (maybe on that one failed test) , the number of times or how long he did it. or even why he did it. to me, the most important thing is my memories of thunder and lightening and being proud of a former great Bulldog doing so well in MLB. Hell, I grew up hating the Cardinals due to allegiances to other teams but I'm not even going to rip on Mark McGuire. I always liked watching him bat. same with Barry Bonds. it's over, done, move on.

DudyDawg

07-04-2014, 11:20 AM

Completely agree Bully. Maybe they should have an asterisk or their names off some Hall lists, but its a bit unfair to rip them for situations we don't know everything about. At the end of the day, those guys helped baseball more than hurt it and were fun to watch.

gravedigger

07-04-2014, 12:20 PM

No he wasn't.

Tbonewannabe

07-04-2014, 12:31 PM

Damn right I would throw out a large majority due to a single test. He's the one that got in front if congress and lied...only to get popped not long after. He just never got caught until then. He was one of baseballs useful idiots that got "used" until congress started talking "tax exempt" status, so MLB had to show it was making progress. I guarandamtee you most test were thrown out until the Feds started investigating baseballs problem.

Do I have an issue with Steroids in baseball? Hell no! "Chicks dig the long ball" Even Maddox was on that bandwagon.... Baseball needed anything to help baseball revive it's image after the strike and the home run did that with the aid of andro and other steroids...

There are people that have bad tests 6 months later. There was some reporter that showed his reason for the bad test was very probable.

Schultzy

07-04-2014, 03:49 PM

I don't care if he juiced or not. I used to go to the park early to watch BP when they were playing because of these two, unbelievable display 30 times a year back then. They were so good they could bash it with these pillows and whiffle bats the game is playing with today.

Polk bashers old enough to remember should recognize he gave us something to be proud of as fans when we were winning very little in anything else. It's easy to bash him for the way he left but we shouldn't forget he gave us something to hang our hats on when we needed it.