Interesting about our 2013 OL...

[engie]

I was looking at snap totals and the propensity to take sacks. The numbers were even more surprising than my eye test remembered...

Dak Prescott - 65% of snaps, took 8 sacks -- a sack allowed for every 33.38 pass attempts
Tyler Russell - 22% of snaps, took 10 sacks -- a sack allowed for every 10.9 pass attempts
Damian Williams - 13% of snaps, took 5 sacks -- a sack allowed for every 9.4 pass attempts

This should give comfort in our OL situation -- at least as long as Dak is healthy. He has excellent instincts and escapability -- and gets the ball out quick. I think Damian will be significantly better than that going forward, but he spent garbage time behind backup OL -- and in the last games, had Bama/OM disrespecting his throwing and coming for his head.

[msstate7]

Good info, engie

[PendingTransaction]

That's why he got hurt

[Todd4State]

I think people bashing our o-line recruiting is to say the least uncalled for.

First of all, o-line is by far the most misevaluated position group of all the positions groups by recruiting services. They can talk about how accurate their system is all they want, but if we sign a bunch of three star guys, I'm not going to be overly upset.

I would say that we have four guys on our starting o-line that have a chance to go to the NFL at some point. Let's look at them and their ranking:

LT- Clausell 2 star
LG Clayborn 3 star
C- Day 2 star
RG- Beckwith- Walk-on, and the only guy who probably doesn't make the NFL, but is solid.
RT- Malone 2 star

[engie]

That's why he got hurt

He was not hurt on a sack -- nor was he hurt behind the LOS. I fail to see any semblance of what him getting hurt diving for a late first down has to do with the OL?

[messageboardsuperhero]

Really interesting numbers. A running QB really does make our OL that much better- not just with escapability, but with how much more respect the defense has to give our running game. Defenses can't just sell out to rush the passer when we have a backfield of Dak and J-Rob, as opposed to one with Russell and Perkins. And yes, Damian's numbers there should improve with more experience.

I'd be interested to see what those numbers looked like for Relf to see how much of that is due to Dak being particularly elusive, as opposed to us just having a mobile QB in general.

[Political Hack]

I was looking at snap totals and the propensity to take sacks. The numbers were even more surprising than my eye test remembered...

Dak Prescott - 65% of snaps, took 8 sacks -- a sack allowed for every 33.38 pass attempts
Tyler Russell - 22% of snaps, took 10 sacks -- a sack allowed for every 10.9 pass attempts
Damian Williams - 13% of snaps, took 5 sacks -- a sack allowed for every 9.4 pass attempts

This should give comfort in our OL situation -- at least as long as Dak is healthy. He has excellent instincts and escapability -- and gets the ball out quick. I think Damian will be significantly better than that going forward, but he spent garbage time behind backup OL -- and in the last games, had Bama/OM disrespecting his throwing and coming for his head.

that's a huge gap. What games did Dak start vs Tyler and Damien though? I think Dak only started two SEC games (offhand), but could be wrong. Either way, he's got much better pocket presence and escape biliary than anyone I've ever seen wear maroon. it's going to make a tremendous difference. Any time I talk about the OL, I'm more concerned with not allowing negative plays in the running game and being able to win short yardage situations consistently without having to rely on Dak a lot.

[Big4Dawg]

Auburn - Started, played 100%
LSU - 66% of game
Kentucky - Started, played 100%
USC - Started, played 100%
A&M - Played majority of snaps
Ole Miss - played a lot

[engie]

that's a huge gap. What games did Dak start vs Tyler and Damien though? I think Dak only started two SEC games (offhand), but could be wrong. Either way, he's got much better pocket presence and escape biliary than anyone I've ever seen wear maroon. it's going to make a tremendous difference. Any time I talk about the OL, I'm more concerned with not allowing negative plays in the running game and being able to win short yardage situations consistently without having to rely on Dak a lot.

I agree with you on all of this.

Vs conference only:
Dak - 5 sacks in 171 passes - one every 34.2 passes
Russell - 6 sacks in 79 passes - one every 13.2 passes
Damian - 3 sacks in 27 passes - one every 9 passes

[Political Hack]

I agree with you on all of this.

Vs conference only:
Dak - 5 sacks in 171 passes - one every 34.2 passes
Russell - 6 sacks in 79 passes - one every 13.2 passes
Damian - 3 sacks in 27 passes - one every 9 passes

that's damn impressive.

[CadaverDawg]

Great info, Eng. makes me feel a shit ton better about our line.

[Goat Holder]

Eng.

Eng?? Bwa ha ha ha ha

[Goat Holder]

I think people bashing our o-line recruiting is to say the least uncalled for.

First of all, o-line is by far the most misevaluated position group of all the positions groups by recruiting services. They can talk about how accurate their system is all they want, but if we sign a bunch of three star guys, I'm not going to be overly upset.

I would say that we have four guys on our starting o-line that have a chance to go to the NFL at some point. Let's look at them and their ranking:

LT- Clausell 2 star
LG Clayborn 3 star
C- Day 2 star
RG- Beckwith- Walk-on, and the only guy who probably doesn't make the NFL, but is solid.
RT- Malone 2 star

I will continue to have concern about the OL until someone steps up and takes that last position. OL makes/breaks a team, so yes, while they are mis-evaluated at times.....it's still worth concern because it's easily the most important unit on your football team. Sucks because we have so many seniors, but none of them are worth a shit. I can't believe Robinson or Muniz have contributed as little as they have. Those were 2 big gets for us.

[I seen it dawg]

that's a huge gap. What games did Dak start vs Tyler and Damien though? I think Dak only started two SEC games (offhand), but could be wrong. Either way, he's got much better pocket presence and escape biliary than anyone I've ever seen wear maroon. it's going to make a tremendous difference. Any time I talk about the OL, I'm more concerned with not allowing negative plays in the running game and being able to win short yardage situations consistently without having to rely on Dak a lot.

Excellent point. We have to move the line of scrimmage in short yardage without Dak.

[engie]

Excellent point. We have to move the line of scrimmage in short yardage without Dak.

My question is -- have we failed to do this in the past along the OL? Or was it a mechanism of the Russell/Perkins situation? I wish college football offered some more in-depth stat metrics -- because I'd be willing to bet that Perkins had one of the highest TFL allowed in the country. While he did some things very well, and my actual complaint is in what we asked him to do not him as a player, he got stood up and fell backwards far too often. That extra yard or two that J-Rob is going to get us after first contact on first and second down when he falls forward is going to make a world of difference in 3rd down situations IMO...

Let's be real -- it's going to be extremely disappointing if we don't break practically every MSU offensive record this year. We were on the cusp of that last year and 2010. This offense should be light years better everywhere other than left tackle...

[messageboardsuperhero]

I will continue to have concern about the OL until someone steps up and takes that last position. OL makes/breaks a team, so yes, while they are mis-evaluated at times.....it's still worth concern because it's easily the most important unit on your football team. Sucks because we have so many seniors, but none of them are worth a shit. I can't believe Robinson or Muniz have contributed as little as they have. Those were 2 big gets for us.

Yeah, Clausell and Day aren't worth shit.**

[Coach34]

I'm not worried about our OL at all. This will be the best OL we have had under Mullen

[preachermatt83]

outstanding thread Engie

[Goat Holder]

Worded it wrong. I meant all the guys on the bench.

[TrueMaroon]

I'm not worried about our OL at all. This will be the best OL we have had under Mullen

Sherrod, Tobias Smith, Brignone, Jackson, and Lawrence is the best we had under Mullen and since Jackie.

[War Machine Dawg]

My question is -- have we failed to do this in the past along the OL? Or was it a mechanism of the Russell/Perkins situation? I wish college football offered some more in-depth stat metrics -- because I'd be willing to bet that Perkins had one of the highest TFL allowed in the country. While he did some things very well, and my actual complaint is in what we asked him to do not him as a player, he got stood up and fell backwards far too often. That extra yard or two that J-Rob is going to get us after first contact on first and second down when he falls forward is going to make a world of difference in 3rd down situations IMO...

Let's be real -- it's going to be extremely disappointing if we don't break practically every MSU offensive record this year. We were on the cusp of that last year and 2010. This offense should be light years better everywhere other than left tackle...

Bingo. I've said it for two years, but Mullen grossly misused Perk. In fairness, Perk wanted to be the every down guy and bulked up to handle it. The problem is that Perk lost that explosive first step and quickness that made him so outstanding his first two seasons without gaining enough physicality to offset it. So he's being asked to run between the tackles on 3rd and 2, then inevitably gets stood up because he's not physical enough to fall forward. And that problem was compounded with TR at QB, because the D had a 98% probability that TR wasn't keeping the ball and handing it to Perk. But mostly, it has to do with what we asked Perk to do and the way Perk transformed his body in an attempt to be the every down back.

Honestly, I think if used properly, Perk could have been one of the biggest mismatches we had on the team the last two seasons had he not chosen to bulk up so much. As I mentioned above, he had an explosive first step and insane quickness. He was fast enough to outrun most LBs, had great hands, and was still physical enough to give Safeties problems. We should have used him in a Percy Harvin "super athlete" role where he got the ball about 18 different ways every game - jet sweep, traditional handoff, slot WR, catching from the backfield, etc. Move him all over the place and force the D to account for him. He'd have put up some SERIOUS offensive numbers in that role. But, no use bitching about it now that he's gone. It just sucks that we didn't maximize the use of his skill set.

I think we'll be just fine on 3rd and short without having to use Dak. As you point out, J-Rob almost always falls forward for the extra yard or three. He's as physical as they come, and his low center of gravity makes him hard as hell to tackle. I know that rather Captain Obvious/Dave Rowe-esque, but that doesn't make it any less true. Let's also not forget that we'll have Shumpert in short yardage situations, too. He might be the most physical RB on the entire team and LOVES contact, probably a little too much, in fact. And I haven't even mentioned Griffin yet, who looked healthier in the spring than last fall, although still not nearly 100% of what he was before his last ACL tear. But he's a pretty damn physical back himself that should be able to get tough short yardage situations. Dammit, football can't get here fast enough.

[Political Hack]

Sherrod, Tobias Smith, Brignone, Jackson, and Lawrence is the best we had under Mullen and since Jackie.

that was a group of flat out studs.

[War Machine Dawg]

Edited b/c I'm a dubmass who FAILED.

[Coach34]

Sherrod, Tobias Smith, Brignone, Jackson, and Lawrence is the best we had under Mullen and since Jackie.

Until 2014

gabe was a true Freshman that year
Tobias was made of plastic
Lawrence wasn't any better than Siddoway and probably not as good

2014 will be better

[msstate7]

Until 2014

gabe was a true Freshman that year
Tobias was made of plastic
Lawrence wasn't any better than Siddoway and probably not as good

2014 will be better

Who matches sherrod?

[Coach34]

Who matches sherrod?

we won't have anybody as good as Sherrod- but as a whole the group is better and deeper

[War Machine Dawg]

we won't have anybody as good as Sherrod- but as a whole the group is better and deeper

Agree with this. Clausell is a very good LT who gets hated on because some of our fans can't forget his freshman year. And even that year, he wasn't as bad as the people who bitch about him would have us believe.

[Offshore Dawg]

Let's be real -- it's going to be extremely disappointing if we don't break practically every MSU offensive record this year. We were on the cusp of that last year and 2010. This offense should be light years better everywhere other than left tackle...[/QUOTE]

The above was from an earlier post, I only used part of it.

Defense should have more three and outs. This will give the offense more control of the clock, thus more time for scoring. I remember the old days of the Dawg defense playing most of the game because the offense could not make first downs.

[bulldawg28]

Let's be real -- it's going to be extremely disappointing if we don't break practically every MSU offensive record this year. We were on the cusp of that last year and 2010. This offense should be light years better everywhere other than left tackle...

The above was from an earlier post, I only used part of it.

Defense should have more three and outs. This will give the offense more control of the clock, thus more time for scoring. I remember the old days of the Dawg defense playing most of the game because the offense could not make first downs.[/QUOTE]



YES!!!!

[Goat Holder]

And even that year, he wasn't as bad as the people who bitch about him would have us believe.

Load of BS right there, I bet Relf and Russell would take issue with that. He got flat-backed more than Paris Hilton.

[thf24]

Load of BS right there, I bet Relf and Russell would take issue with that. He got flat-backed more than Paris Hilton.

BS or not, the point still stands that he's still being unfairly judged by his performances three seasons ago when he was thrown into the fire as a redshirt freshman. What matters now is that he's a more-than-capable SEC LT who straight up handled Jadaveon Clowney among others last year and has a good shot at the NFL.

[Coach34]

Load of BS right there, I bet Relf and Russell would take issue with that. He got flat-backed more than Paris Hilton.

Yet somehow he allowed fewer sacks all season than Sherrod did in one game vs OM his Soph year

[Goat Holder]

BS or not, the point still stands that he's still being unfairly judged by his performances three seasons ago when he was thrown into the fire as a redshirt freshman. What matters now is that he's a more-than-capable SEC LT who straight up handled Jadaveon Clowney among others last year and has a good shot at the NFL.

I agree, that's why I didn't quote that part. I'm not sure he's an NFL lineman, but if he is, surely touting that story should parlay into us landing some more high profile prospects. He was a 0 star recruited by no one but us.

[Coach34]

We have two guys on the OL that will be starting for their 4 year- and both will be in an NFL training camp next summer
We have Clayborn that looks like a draft pick according to our coaches- and he went H2H with Jones all Spring
We have Justin Malone who is another NFL talent
Beckwith is a hard worker and solid- plus plays 2 positions
Flowers was the best back-up of the Spring and showed he is ready to play
Senior and Robinson can play 15 plays a game and handle themselves
Warren will get nothing but better
look for Jocquell Johnson to possibly RS
Deion Calhoun is rumored to be the 2014 Jamal Clayborn for us

im excited about our OL- we have 8-9 guys we can line up and play with. That's what you need

[NCDawg]

that was a group of flat out studs.

They were pretty good most of the time, but I remember Brignone being dominated by the Auburn NG when they had Cam Newton. I also recall the time the Georgia DT knocked Lawrence back into our ball carrier about 5 yards behind the LOS. Seemed like Tobias Smith got hurt every time he started to play well, and would be out.

[Goat Holder]

Yet somehow he allowed fewer sacks all season than Sherrod did in one game vs OM his Soph year

Yeah, not sure if that's true. Link it if you got it. Point still stands that Clausell sucked in 2011. Sherrod sucked vs. Ole Miss in 2008 too, along with the rest of the team. They didn't get off the bus that day. Leave it to Coach34 to twist around stats. Clausell ain't Sherrod.

[msstate7]

They were pretty good most of the time, but I remember Brignone being dominated by the Auburn NG when they had Cam Newton. I also recall the time the Georgia DT knocked Lawrence back into our ball carrier about 5 yards behind the LOS. Seemed like Tobias Smith got hurt every time he started to play well, and would be out.
Nick fairley was a beast.

[tcdog70]

I'm not worried about our OL at all. This will be the best OL we have had under Mullen

Exactly--they will be a strength. Clausell-very under-rated. Day, may be the best Center in the SEC. Plus I think our depth is good

[Goat Holder]

Bingo. I've said it for two years, but Mullen grossly misused Perk. In fairness, Perk wanted to be the every down guy and bulked up to handle it. The problem is that Perk lost that explosive first step and quickness that made him so outstanding his first two seasons without gaining enough physicality to offset it. So he's being asked to run between the tackles on 3rd and 2, then inevitably gets stood up because he's not physical enough to fall forward. And that problem was compounded with TR at QB, because the D had a 98% probability that TR wasn't keeping the ball and handing it to Perk. But mostly, it has to do with what we asked Perk to do and the way Perk transformed his body in an attempt to be the every down back.

Honestly, I think if used properly, Perk could have been one of the biggest mismatches we had on the team the last two seasons had he not chosen to bulk up so much. As I mentioned above, he had an explosive first step and insane quickness. He was fast enough to outrun most LBs, had great hands, and was still physical enough to give Safeties problems. We should have used him in a Percy Harvin "super athlete" role where he got the ball about 18 different ways every game - jet sweep, traditional handoff, slot WR, catching from the backfield, etc. Move him all over the place and force the D to account for him. He'd have put up some SERIOUS offensive numbers in that role. But, no use bitching about it now that he's gone. It just sucks that we didn't maximize the use of his skill set.

I think we'll be just fine on 3rd and short without having to use Dak. As you point out, J-Rob almost always falls forward for the extra yard or three. He's as physical as they come, and his low center of gravity makes him hard as hell to tackle. I know that rather Captain Obvious/Dave Rowe-esque, but that doesn't make it any less true. Let's also not forget that we'll have Shumpert in short yardage situations, too. He might be the most physical RB on the entire team and LOVES contact, probably a little too much, in fact. And I haven't even mentioned Griffin yet, who looked healthier in the spring than last fall, although still not nearly 100% of what he was before his last ACL tear. But he's a pretty damn physical back himself that should be able to get tough short yardage situations. Dammit, football can't get here fast enough.

It's because we didn't have anybody else, genius. J-Rob didn't step up and take any position last year, plus he stayed in the doghouse. We didn't have much choice but to give all the carries to Perkins. He was our most effective tailback, in all facets.

Some of you will simply never learn.

[War Machine Dawg]

Load of BS right there, I bet Relf and Russell would take issue with that. He got flat-backed more than Paris Hilton.

I see Goat's Fatal Attraction to me continues.

[War Machine Dawg]

It's because we didn't have anybody else, genius. J-Rob didn't step up and take any position last year, plus he stayed in the doghouse. We didn't have much choice but to give all the carries to Perkins. He was our most effective tailback, in all facets.

Some of you will simply never learn.

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae73/MSUDawgBurke/ImpliedFacepalm2_zpsb1e5da2d.jpg (http://s959.photobucket.com/user/MSUDawgBurke/media/ImpliedFacepalm2_zpsb1e5da2d.jpg.html)

You mean the J-Rob that's averaged 6 YPC each of the last 2 seasons? Nah, he didn't show he was capable of handling the load.***

[engie]

We didn't have much choice but to give all the carries to Perkins. He was our most effective tailback, in all facets.

Some of you will simply never learn.

This is a dumb ass post, even by goat standards.

[War Machine Dawg]

This is a dumb ass post, even by goat standards.

No kidding. He was better for a few weeks, but his mongoloid personality is clearly back and stalking me. Glen Close would be proud.

[Coach34]

Yeah, not sure if that's true. Link it if you got it. Point still stands that Clausell sucked in 2011. Sherrod sucked vs. Ole Miss in 2008 too, along with the rest of the team. They didn't get off the bus that day. Leave it to Coach34 to twist around stats. Clausell ain't Sherrod.

Sherrod gave up 4 sacks vs the BearSharks in one game. Clausell has never given up more than 4 sacks in a season. I'll have to find the chart they keep on it. Hell, Clausell only started 4 games in 2011

[FISHDAWG]

I'm beginning to think that Shump would make a pretty good fullback as well ... maybe not the conventional every play type, but the guy can lay a hit on whoever he has to ... I really think he is our best back at throwing a good block

[engie]

I'm beginning to think that Shump would make a pretty good fullback as well ... maybe not the conventional every play type, but the guy can lay a hit on whoever he has to ... I really think he is our best back at throwing a good block

On run blocking, I agree. Shump lined up at FB in the I in short yardage in both the Arkansas and OM games -- both plays resulting in Tds...

On pass blocking, give me Nick Griffin all day every day... At least until I see more from the other guys on pass plays. Griffin is as good at that as anyone I remember seeing...