Summer Baseball Updates

[Pioneer Dawg]

So Garner extended his league leading HR total to 5 now and now also leads his league in Slugging with a .569 clip

.292/.373/.569
5 HR
5 2B

Just 15 K's in 83 plate appearances.. Right at his playing K rate of 18% which I have said all along
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Meanwhile in Maryland

Wes Rea continues to struggle at the plate.

.125/.267/.292? 4-24 at the plate.

The alarming thing is that he has already racked up 10 K's. Thats a K rate of 33%

[DudyDawg]

Looks like Garner will get a lot more PT this year!! Wait……...

[DapperDawg]

I'm sorry to highjack the thread, but it seems to me that players improve at these summer leagues, compared to their playing time at State. For instance, that's when Renfroe blew up. Then he was hot when he got back to State for a while, until he finished the season in a slump (I think I'm remembering that correctly). Is Cohen teaching different hitting techniques that could be resulting in the differences in production? Is the summer circuit that much easier? I don't know anything about it, so I'm curious of what others think. Todd?

[RAYn_Man]

Not much instruction goes on in these leagues. It's more just hitters getting consistent ABs and pitchers getting consistent innings.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Looks like Garner will get a lot more PT this year

Oh he will.. Just not with us. And when he mashes you will hear the calls of "he wouldn't be doing anything like that here!!… 20 K's in 44 AB!1!!!!11!1…He'd NEVER be able to play 1B" although we can clearly see what he's doing this summer at the plate.

Offense took a severe hit with this transfer. Its going to limit what we could have been.

[DudyDawg]

Oh he will.. Just not with us. And when he mashes you will hear the calls of "he wouldn't be doing anything like that here!!… 20 K's in 44 AB!1!!!!11!1…He'd NEVER be able to play 1B" although we can clearly see what he's doing this summer at the plate.

Offense took a severe hit with this transfer. Its going to limit what we could have been.

Not disagreeing with that. Would've liked to see him DH a good bit with Hump this season.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Dylan Ingram is holding his own on Garner's team as well. Obviously not completely dominating like Garner but his line is

.274/.341/.384

1 HR
5 2B

Just 13 K's… 15% K rate

[smootness]

This is a very informative, non-self-serving post.

Also, FWIW, Rea's K-rate goes against your apparent philosophy that a player's K-rate will remain constant across all levels of competition, even in practice. And you're also using small samples, which you only do when it serves your argument.

[Will_James]

This is a very informative, non-self-serving post.

Also, FWIW, Rea's K-rate goes against your apparent philosophy that a player's K-rate will remain constant across all levels of competition, even in practice. And you're also using small samples, which you only do when it serves your argument.

I wasn't "using" the sample size.. Just reporting the numbers.. He needs more plate appearances to get a more accurate reading

[I seen it dawg]

Can't believe it took you so long to get an iteration.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Nic Flair Garner

[Dawgsrule]

I have a friend who is a walk on for the baseball team and asked him today what was up with Rea. He said that Wes has been dealing with a lot of hamstring problems and that has really really hurt his batting.

[msstate7]

I have a friend who is a walk on for the baseball team and asked him today what was up with Rea. He said that Wes has been dealing with a lot of hamstring problems and that has really really hurt his batting.

If true, then why play summer at all? Wouldn't it better serve him to get healthy?

[HereComesTheSpiral]

I have a friend who is a walk on for the baseball team and asked him today what was up with Rea. He said that Wes has been dealing with a lot of hamstring problems and that has really really hurt his batting.

Has he played one game healthy since being here?

[RAYn_Man]

I have a friend who is a walk on for the baseball team and asked him today what was up with Rea. He said that Wes has been dealing with a lot of hamstring problems and that has really really hurt his batting.

I don't think this is true.

[Homedawg]

So Garner extended his league leading HR total to 5 now and now also leads his league in Slugging with a .569 clip

.292/.373/.569
5 HR
5 2B

Just 15 K's in 83 plate appearances.. Right at his playing K rate of 18% which I have said all along
.
.
.
.
Meanwhile in Maryland

Wes Rea continues to struggle at the plate.

.125/.267/.292? 4-24 at the plate.

The alarming thing is that he has already racked up 10 K's. Thats a K rate of 33%

Just trying to help you out- but 10 is is a 33% k rate? Figured a numbers guru would be more careful.....I'm not beating my head against the garner wall today. All I'll say is glad the coaches had a problem w a swing and miss dh.

[Goat Holder]

Meanwhile in Maryland

Wes Rea continues to struggle at the plate.

.125/.267/.292? 4-24 at the plate.

The alarming thing is that he has already racked up 10 K's. Thats a K rate of 33%

Good thing we have Dylan Ingram, Brent Rooker, Reid Humphreys and Cole Gordon (ie 4 TALENTED PLAYERS) to pick up the slack if Rea doesn't get it done.

You do realize that just because they play summer ball doesn't mean they'll be back? I still say Rea ends up a GA before it's over.

[RAYn_Man]

Just trying to help you out- but 10 is is a 33% k rate? Figured a numbers guru would be more careful.....I'm not beating my head against the garner wall today. All I'll say is glad the coaches had a problem w a swing and miss dh.

Probably has 6 walks. Which would be 30 plate appearances.

[Todd4State]

I'm sorry to highjack the thread, but it seems to me that players improve at these summer leagues, compared to their playing time at State. For instance, that's when Renfroe blew up. Then he was hot when he got back to State for a while, until he finished the season in a slump (I think I'm remembering that correctly). Is Cohen teaching different hitting techniques that could be resulting in the differences in production? Is the summer circuit that much easier? I don't know anything about it, so I'm curious of what others think. Todd?

No, we're not teaching different hitting techniques that result in differences in production.

Depends on the summer baseball circuit. The Cape Cod is every bit as difficult than and maybe even more difficult than the SEC. Some of the summer leagues are made up of mostly guys that were freshmen and the league is not as good. It varies, but most leagues are well below the SEC in terms of competition, with literally the Cape Cod being the only league that I would say would be even comparable or better.

But it's also apples and oranges. Think about it this way- the SEC regular season is like the MLB season, the fall is like MLB spring training, and the summer leagues for college would be like the Winter Leagues for MLB. The stats mean something, but they aren't an end all be all either. The biggest thing is you want players to get experience, AB's and IP. It's good for guys like Dakota Hudson, Rooker, etc. that didn't play a lot because they weren't ready and it's good for guys like Gavin Collins for scouts to see them in a high level league to play against different competition that is high level if it's a player in the Cape. Team USA is obviously very prestigious and the instruction id very good, but the competition varies depending on which National Teams they play.

So, the stats aren't always the most important thing. I don't want to say that they're insignificant completely, but it's only a small part of the big picture, and honestly not the most important part.

[Todd4State]

Has he played one game healthy since being here?

Very few. He has been injured essentially since his senior year in high school.

[Todd4State]

Just trying to help you out- but 10 is is a 33% k rate? Figured a numbers guru would be more careful.....I'm not beating my head against the garner wall today. All I'll say is glad the coaches had a problem w a swing and miss dh.

I agree with this part. And like others have said, it doesn't really matter what Rea does or doesn't do because we have options that are quite honestly better than Garner if Rea struggles.

Brent Rooker has 3 home runs last time I checked, which is less than Garner but he also has a much higher batting average, and then on top of it he has more speed and is a better defender. Cole Gordon would also pass Garner in the fall as well. So, Garner vs. Rea is moot at this point. It would really be more like Rea vs. Rooker/Gordon/Ingram than anything.

So, again- that leaves DH as the only option for Garner because it makes zero sense to play a guy in Rooker or Gordon (who is also LH hitter by the way, which adds another dimension to our lineup) that strike out less and are better defenders at first base while providing the same production.

Now as far as DH, with the addition of Michael Smith and Luke Reynolds it means that we won't have to use Humphreys in the OF, where he is not all that familiar. So, then it basically becomes Humphreys vs. Garner and Reid is going to win that every single time based on performance and versatility and speed.

No need to discuss Britton at this point and whether we would play Reid there and let Garner DH.

Playing Garner would absolutely hurt us because we would be sitting someone who strikes out less and is a better player. Whether that's Humphreys, Rooker, or whomever.

[engie]

I agree with this part. And like others have said, it doesn't really matter what Rea does or doesn't do because we have options that are quite honestly better than Garner if Rea struggles.

Brent Rooker has 3 home runs last time I checked, which is less than Garner but he also has a much higher batting average, and then on top of it he has more speed and is a better defender. Cole Gordon would also pass Garner in the fall as well. So, Garner vs. Rea is moot at this point. It would really be more like Rea vs. Rooker/Gordon/Ingram than anything.

So, again- that leaves DH as the only option for Garner because it makes zero sense to play a guy in Rooker or Gordon (who is also LH hitter by the way, which adds another dimension to our lineup) that strike out less and are better defenders at first base while providing the same production.

Now as far as DH, with the addition of Michael Smith and Luke Reynolds it means that we won't have to use Humphreys in the OF, where he is not all that familiar. So, then it basically becomes Humphreys vs. Garner and Reid is going to win that every single time based on performance and versatility and speed.

No need to discuss Britton at this point and whether we would play Reid there and let Garner DH.

Playing Garner would absolutely hurt us because we would be sitting someone who strikes out less and is a better player. Whether that's Humphreys, Rooker, or whomever.

Exactly... Which is why my initial statement was that playing Garner = not playing Humphreys -- at least in terms of next year.

But -- that's not how it's done in rainbowland where Garner plays first despite us having better defensive options that are just as good of offensive options. In rainbowland, they all play and excel -- and our coaches are idiots for letting them transfer -- even when they are sub 90% fielders on entire seasons...

[HereComesTheSpiral]

Very few. He has been injured essentially since his senior year in high school.

That probably hurts his draft stock more than his hitting.

[msstate7]

Exactly... Which is why my initial statement was that playing Garner = not playing Humphreys -- at least in terms of next year.

But -- that's not how it's done in rainbowland where Garner plays first despite us having better defensive options that are just as good of offensive options. In rainbowland, they all play and excel -- and our coaches are idiots for letting them transfer -- even when they are sub 90% fielders on entire seasons...

I don't wanna live in rainbow land!!!!!

[engie]

I don't wanna live in rainbow land!!!!!

You can't live in rainbowland, it's a fictitious place! It doesn't exist!

[I seen it dawg]

Oh but yes it does...it's occupied by serfs

[War Machine Dawg]

Very few. He has been injured essentially since his senior year in high school.

Tobias Rea. If he doesn't hit, he shouldn't play. Period.

[engie]

Tobias Rea. If he doesn't hit, he shouldn't play. Period.

He just needs a consistent approach at the plate. He goes from "homerun" to "other way singles" approach without rhyme or reason -- and he never much finds a groove because of this.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Just trying to help you out- but 10 is is a 33% k rate? Figured a numbers guru would be more careful.....I'm not beating my head against the garner wall today. All I'll say is glad the coaches had a problem w a swing and miss dh.

Plate appearances Gump. Go back in your hole now.

[Homedawg]

Haha. Didn't mention plate appearances in your elaborate bashing, I took the info provided and made a point. You c***

[Homedawg]

Plate appearances Gump. Go back in your hole now.

Either way, it's clear that the coaches saw it like me and not you. Otherwise, he would be here next year. Also, he wore it out last summer. I quite frankly, don't give two shits how much of a summer all American garner is or has been. All I need is what he has done here- which is- strike out! A ton! Thanks for participating though

[HereComesTheSpiral]

Plate appearances Gump. Go back in your hole now.

Then why didnt you put down bb and sac flys?

[Pioneer Dawg]

Oh but yes it does...it's occupied by serfs

Poor soul. In the big leagues of myself, Todd, and Engie you are the lowly hype man. Grab that mic rookie

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

You can't live in rainbowland, it's a fictitious place! It doesn't exist!

YOU go live in rainbow land!

That movie is so dead on.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Then why didnt you put down bb and sac flys?

I shouldn't have to spell it out for the short bus crowd.

[I seen it dawg]

Poor soul. In the big leagues of myself, Todd, and Engie you are the lowly hype man. Grab that mic rookie

How dare you talk down about Todd and Engie? No way they are in the same lack of true baseball knowledge league that you are.

[I seen it dawg]

I shouldn't have to spell it out for the short bus crowd.

That's what you continually resort to. Somebody calls you out and you can't reply with anything of substance so you attack. Short leash muther****er.

[I seen it dawg]

Poor soul. In the big leagues of myself, Todd, and Engie you are the lowly hype man. Grab that mic rookie

Wtf does any of this even mean. You still have never shown you actually played the game of baseball. I guess people see you post so damn much so they assume you know something. Nothing of substance.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

I shouldn't have to spell it out for the short bus crowd.

Some of us dont keep up with summer stats and jerk their little pud off in a corner every time a transfer player gets a hit.

[Homedawg]

Poor soul. In the big leagues of myself, Todd, and Engie you are the lowly hype man. Grab that mic rookie

Nice ass kiss try. Comical.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

I shouldn't have to spell it out for the short bus crowd.

And i wouldnt call people the short bus crowd whenever you fail to mention important shit. Now go suck on your momma's titty and cry about how people should never bunt.

[I seen it dawg]

Damn pioneer doesn't look like everyone thought will james ban was so much bullshit...

[Pioneer Dawg]

Wtf does any of this even mean. You still have never shown you actually played the game of baseball. I guess people see you post so damn much so they assume you know something. Nothing of substance.

What do u want my HS pictures or something? How many nominations do you have for most knowledgeable about baseball? Have you been asked by one of our publications to write a weekly column (I declined). You're a glorified message board cheerleader, especially on the topic of baseball.

[RAYn_Man]

Do other people on here have better "credentials" than Will James?

[Homedawg]

What do u want my HS pictures or something? How many nominations do you have for most knowledgeable about baseball? Have you been asked by one of our publications to write a weekly column (I declined). You're a glorified message board cheerleader, especially on the topic of baseball.

Someone asked you to write about baseball? Please tell me so I can avoid that place. This site is enough of your baseball "knowledge"! And yes, I saw you turned it down, don't want to be anywhere near the site proclaiming your expertise. It won't be in business long.

[I seen it dawg]

What do u want my HS pictures or something? How many nominations do you have for most knowledgeable about baseball? Have you been asked by one of our publications to write a weekly column (I declined). You're a glorified message board cheerleader, especially on the topic of baseball.

And every time I think about banning you (again) you come back with material that makes me laugh my ass off. I don't want any of your serf pics from high school jackhole. Really my blasting you continuously about you never playing baseball has been proven in so many of your posts it has become rhetorical at this point.

[Homedawg]

And every time I think about banning you (again) you come back with material that makes me laugh my ass off. I don't want any of your serf pics from high school jackhole. Really my blasting you continuously about you never playing baseball has been proven in so many of your posts it has become rhetorical at this point.

Don't throw a fastball to the Red Sox on Nintendo RBI baseball! If he were old enough, I'm almost certain that's where he gets half his stuff. Well other than from other saber metric books!

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Id ask yall to both give it a rest but there is no point

[Pioneer Dawg]

And every time I think about banning you (again) you come back with material that makes me laugh my ass off. I don't want any of your serf pics from high school jackhole. Really my blasting you continuously about you never playing baseball has been proven in so many of your posts it has become rhetorical at this point.

Cool

Damn this got off topic fast. Garner is leading his league in HR and SLG. Don't act like Ingram, Gordon, Rooker etc bat is near that caliber right now. For those posters that understand baseball and aren't agenda driven know when I say things like Heck should start and Lindgren would go wild know that I've got a great track record. Wanting to see us maximize our chances for success is why I post and losing Garner will greatly reduce our offensive output.

[I seen it dawg]

Do other people on here have better "credentials" than Will James?

Uhhh everybody that has played 1 inning or more at any level including T ball should count no?

[I seen it dawg]

Cool

Damn this got off topic fast. Garner is leading his league in HR and SLG. Don't act like Ingram, Gordon, Rooker etc bat is near that caliber right now. For those posters that understand baseball and aren't agenda driven know when I say things like Heck should start and Lindgren would go wild know that I've got a great track record. Wanting to see us maximize our chances for success is why I post and losing Garner will greatly reduce our offensive output.


Which is a recurring theme with you.

And in the same sentence you mention agenda you boast of a great track record. Yet you've never admitted you were wrong about Lindgren being a first rounder...a point you tried to bang home ad nauseum.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Uhhh everybody that has played 1 inning or more at any level including T ball should count no?

You are the Muhammad Atta of message boards.

[I seen it dawg]

You are the Muhammad Atta of message boards.

Are you ****ing serious? Comparing someone on a message board to one of the worst terrorists to ever live? You are a piece of shit. I thought you were just an arrogant brat. I was wrong.

And it's Mohammed you asshat.

[Homedawg]

Cool

Damn this got off topic fast. Garner is leading his league in HR and SLG. Don't act like Ingram, Gordon, Rooker etc bat is near that caliber right now. For those posters that understand baseball and aren't agenda driven know when I say things like Heck should start and Lindgren would go wild know that I've got a great track record. Wanting to see us maximize our chances for success is why I post and losing Garner will greatly reduce our offensive output.

Yes you got those right. Congrats. You also fail to mention your missed predictions- vickerson is a stud, and yes I'm paraphrasing, and stupid statements like garner got screwed! Just to mention a couple.

[Coach34]

Do other people on here have better "credentials" than Will James?

Yes- I know of at least 4 that coached 5A baseball or in college on the board....and a few of us also played college baseball

I dont get pissed over Pioneer's stuff like others- he does throw some good stats. But stats and talking hitting and pitching mechanics are two different animals

[Todd4State]

Tobias Rea. If he doesn't hit, he shouldn't play. Period.

I don't disagree with that at all. But I also don't think he should be replaced by a guy that strikes out more and is worse defensively- which is pretty much what anyone advocating Daniel Garner is saying.

I also don't think that will be much of an issue with Cohen either- he benched him last year at times and dropped him to eighth.

[engie]

Garner is leading his league in HR and SLG. Don't act like Ingram, Gordon, Rooker etc bat is near that caliber right now.

He's 1st in the league in RBI's -- Ingram is second.
They have the same number of doubles.
Outside of Garner having 5 bombs to Ingram's 1 -- their stat line is damn near identical. Oh -- and Garner is 2nd in the league in GDPs, while Ingram has only 1. Ingram has far superior speed and defensive ability. Ingram is a year younger -- and actually has projectable size as a 1B, while Garner doesn't. Let us not forget that Garner only hit 2 bombs his first summer -- for projectability purposes.

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20140703-vdxq-16kb.jpg (http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/20140703-vdxq-16kb)

Rooker is T4 in the New England league in homers -- with one more than Garner hit in his first summer. All the other things that make Ingram a better option at first base than Garner also holds true for Rooker.

Gordon is 6'6 and bats left handed with power potential. If you can't see why that's advantageous, I can't help you.

The problem with your sabermetrics is they don't tell you jack about defense, baserunning, and intangibles. It takes baseball people to "see" some of these things -- and that is what fails you constantly in these debates.

[I seen it dawg]

Engie it's no use. He's the Harry Frazee of baseball.

[DudyDawg]

My big question is, why the hell is the argument happening. Garner is not a mississippi state baseball player. That's the only fact that should matter. We might as well argue for Palmeiro to come play first. He's just as much on the team as garner. Move on

[Pioneer Dawg]

I don't disagree with that at all. But I also don't think he should be replaced by a guy that strikes out more and is worse defensively- which is pretty much what anyone advocating Daniel Garner is saying.

I also don't think that will be much of an issue with Cohen either- he benched him last year at times and dropped him to eighth.

It's a nice meme and a lot of people slurp it up but common sense knows that given normal playing time Rea strikes out more than Garner. Not really close either. Repeating the opposite does not make it true. Rea will challenge for the ALL TIME SEC RECORD in K's next year. Nobody K's like Wes Rea.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

I don't disagree with that at all. But I also don't think he should be replaced by a guy that strikes out more and is worse defensively- which is pretty much what anyone advocating Daniel Garner is saying.

I also don't think that will be much of an issue with Cohen either- he benched him last year at times and dropped him to eighth.

My biggest concerns, the injuries

[preachermatt83]

Oh he will.. Just not with us. And when he mashes you will hear the calls of "he wouldn't be doing anything like that here!!? 20 K's in 44 AB!1!!!!11!1?He'd NEVER be able to play 1B" although we can clearly see what he's doing this summer at the plate.

Offense took a severe hit with this transfer. Its going to limit what we could have been.


+1

[Pioneer Dawg]

.

The problem with your sabermetrics is they don't tell you jack about defense, baserunning, and intangibles. It takes baseball people to "see" some of these things -- and that is what fails you constantly in these debates.

Don't play to the crowd, you know what "sabermetrics" is and isn't.

[Todd4State]

He's 1st in the league in RBI's -- Ingram is second.
They have the same number of doubles.
Outside of Garner having 5 bombs to Ingram's 1 -- their stat line is damn near identical. Oh -- and Garner is 2nd in the league in GDPs, while Ingram has only 1. Ingram has far superior speed and defensive ability. Ingram is a year younger -- and actually has projectable size as a 1B, while Garner doesn't. Let us not forget that Garner only hit 2 bombs his first summer -- for projectability purposes.

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20140703-vdxq-16kb.jpg (http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/20140703-vdxq-16kb)

Rooker is T4 in the New England league in homers -- with one more than Garner hit in his first summer. All the other things that make Ingram a better option at first base than Garner also holds true for Rooker.

Gordon is 6'6 and bats left handed with power potential. If you can't see why that's advantageous, I can't help you.

The problem with your sabermetrics is they don't tell you jack about defense, baserunning, and intangibles. It takes baseball people to "see" some of these things -- and that is what fails you constantly in these debates.

Bingo. There is a reason why scouts covet the five tools. And intangibles isn't even included in that.

[Homedawg]

It's a nice meme and a lot of people slurp it up but common sense knows that given normal playing time Rea strikes out more than Garner. Not really close either. Repeating the opposite does not make it true. Rea will challenge for the ALL TIME SEC RECORD in K's next year. Nobody K's like Wes Rea.

Please explain how common sense tells you that garner doesn't strike out as much as rea? Would his strikeout rate come down? Surely? But to say it would come down more than rea's isn't common sense. It's a wish by you at best. 21 k in 46 ab's. You can't argue w that! Well I guess u can. And continue to.

[RAYn_Man]

Ingram has far superior speed and defensive ability.

This is absurd. I'd say their speed is the same.

[Pioneer Dawg]

1. Ingram doesn't get the chance to ground into a double play because Garner hits in front of him. Hard to GDP when Garner is dropping bombs and hitting doubles.

2. GDP is a terrible thing to look at. It takes someone being on 1st base and less than 2 outs to even occur.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Bingo. There is a reason why scouts covet the five tools. And intangibles isn't even included in that.

Yeah yeah you and engine just keep lowering yourselves to play to the masses.

[engie]

Don't play to the crowd, you know what "sabermetrics" is and isn't.

Of course I know what it is and isn't. You don't. SABR is literally all you know -- and you constantly make that clear with your inability to see anything in baseball beyond that single narrow prism which contrary to your popular belief DOES NOT EVEN REMOTELY TELL THE WHOLE STORY.

There's a reason scouts haven't been replaced by computer programs -- but it's one that you will never understand at this point.

[engie]

1. Ingram doesn't get the chance to ground into a double play because Garner hits in front of him. Hard to GDP when Garner is dropping bombs and hitting doubles.

2. GDP is a terrible thing to look at. It takes someone being on 1st base and less than 2 outs to even occur.

You don't even understand why I was looking at it, do you? SABR doesn't teach the practical application of the point I was making, I don't guess.

[engie]

Yeah yeah you and engine just keep lowering yourselves to play to the masses.

Tell us again how Flair should be playing 3rd, if you will... since you are always right and everything. Oh, wait -- he had a sub .900 fielding percentage this year? Say it ain't so**

Also, please tell me again how we were NOT a top 8-12 baseball program last year. Let me guess -- you conveniently forgot that argument as well...

[Pioneer Dawg]

Of course I know what it is and isn't. You don't. SABR is literally all you know -- and you constantly make that clear with your inability to see anything in baseball beyond that narrow prism.

That's funny and completely nonsensical. You are in campaign mode now with the awards coming up. I am the only one to actually combine the numbers AND eye test. // See me calling for Heck to start.. Britton to break out... Us to sweep Texas A&M... Lindgren to not only be better but DOMINATE.. Wahl to struggle.... Garner to mash.

The stupid thing is to ignore eyes and claim that anyone is more prone to strikeout than Rea. But when it's agenda driven to "oppose Will" it's often nonsensical.

[Todd4State]

It's a nice meme and a lot of people slurp it up but common sense knows that given normal playing time Rea strikes out more than Garner. Not really close either. Repeating the opposite does not make it true. Rea will challenge for the ALL TIME SEC RECORD in K's next year. Nobody K's like Wes Rea.

Actually, common sense says that a guy that is striking out a lot is going to keep on striking out a lot.

Repeating what you are saying doesn't make it true either- especially when the numbers don't back it up.

And if Rea does get that record, at least he can take comfort in knowing that Garner won't break it in two years.

Is your catfish hitting on Rea now or something? If he struggles, Cohen will bench him. Like he did last year. I don't see what the issue here is.

And this is especially dumb in light of how Rooker is performing.

[BankerDog]

To the guy who said Ingram is faster then Garner, you have never been to a practice. Ingram is slow..like slower then Wes Rea. Ingram ran close to an 8 in the 60 this past spring.

[Todd4State]

Yeah yeah you and engine just keep lowering yourselves to play to the masses.

The only one here that is lowering themselves is you.

There's literally no one that agrees with you on this except for PreacherMatt.

[I seen it dawg]

The only one here that is lowering themselves is you.

There's literally no one that agrees with you on this except for PreacherMatt.

Todd you are wrong. He is the lowest of the low. He can't go anywhere lower.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Actually, common sense says that a guy that is striking out a lot is going to keep on striking out a lot.

Is your catfish hitting on Rea now or something? If he struggles, Cohen will bench him. Like he did last year.

1. Well Engine agreed with me about consistent playing time and K rates so that's a catch-22 for your agenda.

2. Wait I was "called out" for saying Rea was benched by you just yesterday and yet you are here repeating it. Off the platoon train now or what's the deal? Bench must poll better than platoon.

[Pioneer Dawg]

The only one here that is lowering themselves is you.

There's literally no one that agrees with you on this except for PreacherMatt.

Lots agree with me.. Especially the thinking crowd.. And unlike you I'm not posting with approval ratings in mind. I know I'm right I don't need cheerleaders on the mic.

[engie]

That's funny and completely nonsensical. You are in campaign mode now with the awards coming up. I am the only one to actually combine the numbers AND eye test. // See me calling for Heck to start.. Britton to break out... Us to sweep Texas A&M... Lindgren to not only be better but DOMINATE.. Wahl to struggle.... Garner to mash.

The stupid thing is to ignore eyes and claim that anyone is more prone to strikeout than Rea. But when it's agenda driven to "oppose Will" it's often nonsensical.

Regular renaissance man with this baseball thing. You are c34 in training. When you are right, bring it up 2903423094823 times. When you are wrong, spin it, ignore it, and hope it goes away.

[Todd4State]

That's funny and completely nonsensical. You are in campaign mode now with the awards coming up. I am the only one to actually combine the numbers AND eye test. // See me calling for Heck to start.. Britton to break out... Us to sweep Texas A&M... Lindgren to not only be better but DOMINATE.. Wahl to struggle.... Garner to mash.

The stupid thing is to ignore eyes and claim that anyone is more prone to strikeout than Rea. But when it's agenda driven to "oppose Will" it's often nonsensical.

The only one that appears to have an agenda here is you. Which as best as I can tell is trying to run down Wes Rea for whatever reason and trying to promote yourself.

And personally, I think it's unfair to Garner too because he's a guy that struggled and had to leave a SEC program and that has been magnified so that you can promote yourself.

The only "agenda" people have here is to talk sports- but you can't and shouldn't expect people that know better to cater to you when you are wrong.

And well, OK I will concede that Coach likes to piss off soccer fans, which is definitely agenda driven.

[I seen it dawg]

Regular renaissance man with this baseball thing. You are c34 in training. When you are right, bring it up 2903423094823 times. When you are wrong, spin it, ignore it, and hope it goes away.

Nailed it. Typical of an arrogant brat.

[engie]

To the guy who said Ingram is faster then Garner, you have never been to a practice. Ingram is slow..like slower then Wes Rea. Ingram ran close to an 8 in the 60 this past spring.

I was adding all the stats at the same time and was meaning to put that in the Rooker part of the post. My apologies.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Regular renaissance man with this baseball thing. You are c34 in training. When you are right, bring it up 2903423094823 times. When you are wrong, spin it, ignore it, and hope it goes away.

I guess I'll take the compliment. Makes sense. Most knowledgeable football poster and most knowledgeable baseball poster.

[Todd4State]

1. Well Engine agreed with me about consistent playing time and K rates so that's a catch-22 for your agenda.

2. Wait I was "called out" for saying Rea was benched by you just yesterday and yet you are here repeating it. Off the platoon train now or what's the deal? Bench must poll better than platoon.

1. OK- so he won't strike out half the time probably. But when you strike out that much it's a pretty good indication that you are going to strike out a lot. I would not be surprised at all if your average poster would strike out less than Garner. But again, that's only one side of the story. He's horrible defensively and he can't run. The fact that he has no position that he can play adequately is HUGE liability for him and was just as much his undoing as it was his striking out a lot.

2. I guess you got me there with semantics. My point is that he is not going to just play him ad nauseum no matter what or that Wes is untouchable- which is what you seem to be insinuating. In case you haven't noticed- it's not uncommon for struggling players to sit out a game or two at all levels and then get back in the lineup. That is what we did with Rea last year and then we decided to platoon him with Detz because we thought it might help both before returning back to Rea at first full time.

Platoons, slumps, sitting on the bench is all part of a typical baseball season. It's going to happen next year too- and for everyone else in the country as well. It's just how it goes.

[Todd4State]

Lots agree with me.. Especially the thinking crowd.. And unlike you I'm not posting with approval ratings in mind. I know I'm right I don't need cheerleaders on the mic.

Who's agreeing with you? PreacherMatt? Daniel Garner's girlfriend? Is the "thinking crowd" the population of RainbowLand? I can't see SABR agreeing with you either. They would probably side with me and engie about Garner.

I don't know what my approval ratings are. I just want to talk baseball and football.

And I'm glad you don't need any cheerleaders because you don't have any.

[messageboardsuperhero]

I guess I'll take the compliment. Makes sense. Most knowledgeable football poster and most knowledgeable baseball poster.

LOL. We really shouldn't have done these awards. WJ's ego is somehow bigger than ever.

At least it's funny though- I'm laughing my ass off at this thread.

[DudyDawg]

LOL. We really shouldn't have done these awards. WJ's ego is somehow bigger than ever.

At least it's funny though- I'm laughing my ass off at this thread.

This has helped me through one of the worst tv nights I can remember

[Homedawg]

Please explain how common sense tells you that garner doesn't strike out as much as rea? Would his strikeout rate come down? Surely? But to say it would come down more than rea's isn't common sense. It's a wish by you at best. 21 k in 46 ab's. You can't argue w that! Well I guess u can. And continue to.

I'm waiting to hear about the common sense to this? No rebuttal? U have none.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Next year we will have a "baseball bold predictions" thread and we will see how some of you can stack up. Nobody and I mean NOBODY has my track record on this. I don't think anyone else really goes out on limbs at all. Some people like to downplay these predictions ("oh a Bianco coached pitcher in Wahl failed, who saw that coming** - Todd/ Homedawg) well where the **** where you on that?

Start talking about Garner and the kid goes out there and is leading his LEAGUE, not just team in jacks and slugging and it gets tossed aside as nothing. Bull shit. Those results combined with my track record should give you an idea of what we would have had in his bat next year. Really sucks he left.

[Homedawg]

Next year we will have a "baseball bold predictions" thread and we will see how some of you can stack up. Nobody and I mean NOBODY has my track record on this. I don't think anyone else really goes out on limbs at all. Some people like to downplay these predictions ("oh a Bianco coached pitcher in Wahl failed, who saw that coming** - Todd/ Homedawg) well where the **** where you on that?

Start talking about Garner and the kid goes out there and is leading his LEAGUE, not just team in jacks and slugging and it gets tossed aside as nothing. Bull shit. Those results combined with my track record should give you an idea of what we would have had in his bat next year. Really sucks he left.

Great- next year. Odds of you being around by then are less than Obama having a third term. #trackrecord

[Todd4State]

Next year we will have a "baseball bold predictions" thread and we will see how some of you can stack up. Nobody and I mean NOBODY has my track record on this. I don't think anyone else really goes out on limbs at all. Some people like to downplay these predictions ("oh a Bianco coached pitcher in Wahl failed, who saw that coming** - Todd/ Homedawg) well where the **** where you on that?

Start talking about Garner and the kid goes out there and is leading his LEAGUE, not just team in jacks and slugging and it gets tossed aside as nothing. Bull shit. Those results combined with my track record should give you an idea of what we would have had in his bat next year. Really sucks he left.

Dude, Bianco's been hurting pitchers since 2001. We've been talking about that on sixpack for YEARS. Excuse us for not being impressed.

You nailed Lindgren being a first round pick, so kudos to you.

I'll make a bold prediction that you will keep us updated on Garner's JUCO stats and talk about how right you were because you don't understand the difference between SEC and JUCO pitching. Or dare I say it doesn't fit your agenda?

Meanwhile, the rest of us will be happy that Reid Humphreys is our DH.

[Todd4State]

Great- next year. Odds of you being around by then are less than Obama having a third term. #trackrecord

Nah- apparently I seen it Dawg likes having the villiage serf around to laugh at.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Nah- apparently I seen it Dawg likes having the villiage serf around to laugh at.

Someone has to wear the skirt and someone has to yell into the Megaphone between I Seen It and Homedawg.

Go!!! Todd!!!! Go Todd!!!

[messageboardsuperhero]

Next year we will have a "baseball bold predictions" thread and we will see how some of you can stack up. Nobody and I mean NOBODY has my track record on this. I don't think anyone else really goes out on limbs at all. Some people like to downplay these predictions ("oh a Bianco coached pitcher in Wahl failed, who saw that coming** - Todd/ Homedawg) well where the **** where you on that?

Start talking about Garner and the kid goes out there and is leading his LEAGUE, not just team in jacks and slugging and it gets tossed aside as nothing. Bull shit. Those results combined with my track record should give you an idea of what we would have had in his bat next year. Really sucks he left.

Pioneer doing his best TO impersonation. "I love me some me!"- 40 second mark


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE0JF4wwkZg

[Pioneer Dawg]

It's just funny how a guy we are LOSING is currently leading his league in HR and SLG...Something we BADLY needed this year... And to keep the "oppose Will" agenda up they are doing everything they can to try and dismiss it as nothing. No objectivity by the baseball mafia politicians on this one. Has some to do with egg on their face about Garners ability from threads a couple weeks ago (see Todd noting him hitting .214 very early on in the summer). Everyone sees the agenda.

Leading. His. League.

[Homedawg]

It's just funny how a guy we are LOSING is currently leading his league in HR and SLG...Something we BADLY needed this year... And to keep the "oppose Will" agenda up they are doing everything they can to try and dismiss it as nothing. No objectivity by the baseball mafia politicians on this one. Has some to do with egg on their face about Garners ability from threads a couple weeks ago (see Todd noting him hitting .214 very early on in the summer). Everyone sees the agenda.


Leading. His. League.

Agenda is when one avoids the facts......Msu hitting and summer league equals 2 different things.

[Homedawg]

If pioneer dawg or will James or will_james wants wanted garner to hit over hump them say so. On the record.

[Pioneer Dawg]

If pioneer dawg or will James or will_james wants wanted garner to hit over hump them say so. On the record.

Lulz Engine already tried this. I wanted both to hit next year. Probably 4th and 5th in the order.

[I seen it dawg]

Next year we will have a "baseball bold predictions" thread and we will see how some of you can stack up. Nobody and I mean NOBODY has my track record on this. I don't think anyone else really goes out on limbs at all. Some people like to downplay these predictions ("oh a Bianco coached pitcher in Wahl failed, who saw that coming** - Todd/ Homedawg) well where the **** where you on that?

Start talking about Garner and the kid goes out there and is leading his LEAGUE, not just team in jacks and slugging and it gets tossed aside as nothing. Bull shit. Those results combined with my track record should give you an idea of what we would have had in his bat next year. Really sucks he left.

It's summer league assface. Hell I led my summer league in triples one time....when I was 12. But you've never led a summer league in any category except cups of water served. #neverplayedthegame

[engie]

Lulz Engine already tried this. I wanted both to hit next year. Probably 4th and 5th in the order.

http://www.aceshowbiz.com/images/still/trouble-with-the-curve-wbp04.jpg

while the rest of us
http://www.theyoungfolks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/east_article_story_main.jpg

[I seen it dawg]

Dude, Bianco's been hurting pitchers since 2001. We've been talking about that on sixpack for YEARS. Excuse us for not being impressed.

You nailed Lindgren being a first round pick, so kudos to you.

I'll make a bold prediction that you will keep us updated on Garner's JUCO stats and talk about how right you were because you don't understand the difference between SEC and JUCO pitching. Or dare I say it doesn't fit your agenda?

Meanwhile, the rest of us will be happy that Reid Humphreys is our DH.

Whoa whoa whoa whoa hell no....that muther****er still hasn't come clean and said he was wrong that Lindgren did NOT get drafted in the first round. Round 1 and 2 are distinctly different. As per his usual ranting, he adamantly told all of us we were stupid for not thinking he would be a first rounder. When he wasn't....not a peep.

[I seen it dawg]

Dude, Bianco's been hurting pitchers since 2001. We've been talking about that on sixpack for YEARS. Excuse us for not being impressed.

You nailed Lindgren being a first round pick, so kudos to you.

I'll make a bold prediction that you will keep us updated on Garner's JUCO stats and talk about how right you were because you don't understand the difference between SEC and JUCO pitching. Or dare I say it doesn't fit your agenda?

Meanwhile, the rest of us will be happy that Reid Humphreys is our DH.

Agenda? The understanding of pitching has zero to do with agenda and has everything to do with him never actually playing the game of baseball. What's really sad is he borderline makes you almost want to root against the players he keeps loving on because he is such a piece of shit. Which is terrible. Maybe he is a secret Rebel troll....or serf

[I seen it dawg]

It's just funny how a guy we are LOSING is currently leading his league in HR and SLG...Something we BADLY needed this year... And to keep the "oppose Will" agenda up they are doing everything they can to try and dismiss it as nothing. No objectivity by the baseball mafia politicians on this one. Has some to do with egg on their face about Garners ability from threads a couple weeks ago (see Todd noting him hitting .214 very early on in the summer). Everyone sees the agenda.

Leading. His. SUMMER.League.

Garners ability? To hammer this one home again, Garner striking out in the spring being related to his hitting in SUMMER ball is about the same as me hitting 3rd with a home run in a semi pro game in Artesia and having Coach Polk ring me up and want me to come hit clean up the next year.

[engie]

I just find his argument funny, when it's echoes of the same argument about Nick Flair, who was and is a superior all around hitter to Garner, but has proven rather conclusively in Juco to be a huge defensive liability.

It's easy for Phillip to completely ignore that discussion now that he's moved on to the next guy after being proven wrong about the last one in the same situation.

This time next year, it'll be another new guy in the same situation...

[Pioneer Dawg]

Garners ability? To hammer this one home again, Garner striking out in the spring being related to his hitting in SUMMER ball is about the same as me hitting 3rd with a home run in a semi pro game in Artesia and having Coach Polk ring me up and want me to come hit clean up the next year.

Everyone should be laughing at you right now. Your attempt to portray these summer leagues as T-Ball is extremely funny. BUT if they are so pitiful then what does that say about Rea right now.... Or Ingram, who is on his team... Another fail in logic from ISID

[Pioneer Dawg]

I just find his argument funny, when it's echoes of the same argument about Nick Flair, who was and is a superior all around hitter to Garner, but has proven rather conclusively in Juco to be a huge defensive liability...

So... Flair wouldn't have been a good option at DH? I'm missing your point here. You do realize we don't play in the NL right. Not sure you can find it but I'd betwe were in the bottom 2 of the league in DH production.

[engie]

So... Flair wouldn't have been a good option at DH? I'm missing your point here. You do realize we don't play in the NL right. Not sure you can find it but I'd betwe were in the bottom 2 of the league in DH production.

There you go basically saying Garner should dh over Humphreys again -- moving the goal posts. Let's remember -- you aren't arguing that garner should dh -- you are arguing that he should play 1B. Which he hasn't proven capable of on any level whatsoever -- and is guaranteed to not even on the same planet as Rea defensively -- otherwise, we would have seen him get the chance when Rea and Detz couldn't hit water.

Your inability to look big picture is the funniest part of all this. Would Flair have been a good DH for us? Damn straight he would have. For the 1047th time -- he CHOSE to leave MSU when told that would be his exclusive role for his career.

Do you deny CONSTANTLY bringing the same shit about Flair playing 3B last year when we didn't have a good defensive option over there? Well, JUCO showed us exactly why he didn't get a chance.

But you conveniently forgot about that discussion that you were wrong about -- in order to rinse and repeat the same damn discussion this year.

[shoeless joe]

This thread is good...public debate for the baseball award and all.

I'll try to sum up the candidates...

Best at mathematical equations (although only uses to fit agenda and won't admit when the numbers are wrong)- Will
Best at researching future players ( although a bit of a sunshine pumper with those guys)- Todd
Brings good info on current players and it appears has somewhat of a knowledge of the game from an inner working "coaching" standpoint (although he brings a lot of sunshine and feels the need to prove himself; sometimes not a bad thing)- engie

In the end all 3 like to elevate themselves and look down on others. I don't know who's more likely to hit a 90 mph fastball in the gap or keep their hands back on an offspeed, but I have my suspicions which are least likely to do so.

In the end this propaganda driven thread has been great entertainment.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Do you deny CONSTANTLY bringing the same shit about Flair playing 3B last year when we didn't have a good defensive option over there? Well, JUCO showed us exactly why he didn't get a chance.

But you conveniently forgot about that discussion that you were wrong about -- in order to rinse and repeat the same damn discussion this year.

This is why the quote feature is so useful. Again you keep making shit up. I completely deny calling for Flair to play 3B over anyone else. In fact this thread I openly questioned what position he would play seeing that Reid was supposed to be the guy at 3B?

http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?2206-Just-heard-we-likely-have-2-baseball-players-transferring

Post number 34 in the thread genius. All politicians are liars I guess.

DH's should have been Flair/Garner. What about having a masher at DH do you not get? Me and WMD are alone on this I guess.

[engie]

This is why the quote feature is so useful. Again you keep making shit up. I completely deny calling for Flair to play 3B over anyone else. In fact this thread I openly questioned what position he would play seeing that Reid was supposed to be the guy at 3B?

http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?2206-Just-heard-we-likely-have-2-baseball-players-transferring

Post number 34 in the thread genius. All politicians are liars I guess.

DH's should have been Flair/Garner. What about having a masher at DH do you not get? Me and WMD are alone on this I guess.

Ahh -- so it's changed back to Garner over Hump for DH now -- which you argued against literally yesterday. I can't keep up with how many times you've changed your story on this. Keep moving the goal posts though... Hey, as long as you post on both sides of the fence and constantly do 180s on your argument, you can always be "right" I guess...

And your argument wasn't about who should play third this year, dumb ass -- it was about who should have been playing it last year.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Ahh -- so it's changed back to Garner over Hump for DH now -- which you argued against literally yesterday. I can't keep up with how many times you've changed your story on this. Keep moving the goal posts though... Hey, as long as you post on both sides of the fence and constantly do 180s on your argument, you can always be "right" I guess...

And your argument wasn't about who should play third this year, dumb ass -- it was about who should have been playing it last year.

If you are twisted in circles that's your problem. You bring up 3B out of nowhere and then somehow claim I am changing positions on it? It's very simple. We could have used Flair this year at DH. We could have used Garner this year at DH. Garner could have gotten better at 1B and contended for that spot or at DH. It would have given us more options. Never have I said Garner over Flair. You keep making that up because that's what you do. There are many options that could have been looked at getting BOTH Garner and Hump in the lineup and at defensive positions they could do.

[engie]

If you are twisted in circles that's your problem. You bring up 3B out of nowhere and then somehow claim I am changing positions on it? It's very simple. We could have used Flair this year at DH. We could have used Garner this year at DH. Garner could have gotten better at 1B and contended for that spot or at DH. It would have given us more options. Never have I said Garner over Flair. You keep making that up because that's what you do. There are many options that could have been looked at getting BOTH Garner and Hump in the lineup and at defensive positions they could do.

So you think Hump should have been at 3b over Britton then?

You said yesterday that you thought garner should have been at 1B -- now it's dh -- so which is it?

My comprehension isn't the issue -- it's the lack of cohesion in your constantly changing argument.

[Homedawg]

So you think Hump should have been at 3b over Britton then?

You said yesterday that you thought garner should have been at 1B -- now it's dh -- so which is it?

My comprehension isn't the issue -- it's the lack of cohesion in your constantly changing argument.

Then what w detz? It's clear he wanted rea benched- which happened. So then you have hump, garner, detz and Britton, for 1b, 3b and dh. One would have to sit no matter. Clearly, will james is having a hard time seeing this.

[Coach34]

I don't know who's more likely to hit a 90 mph fastball in the gap or keep their hands back on an offspeed, but I have my suspicions which are least likely to do so. .

No kidding. There has literally been no talk of the way Garner flies open vs the slider. His pitch recognition was shit vs SEC pitching. Nobody wants to talk about his timing issues with his trigger he had.

But by god- we got stats

[I seen it dawg]

No kidding. There has literally been no talk of the way Garner flies open vs the slider. His pitch recognition was shit vs SEC pitching. Nobody wants to talk about his timing issues with his trigger he had.

But by god- we got stats

Whoa dude..you are actually getting into the actual playing of the game. We don't go there so as to keep it somewhat fair. We like to keep it with the emphasis on summer league stats.

[DapperDawg]

Thanks, guys. I literally have a headache now, after reading 2 pages of this virtual slapfest.

[I seen it dawg]

Everyone should be laughing at you right now. Your attempt to portray these summer leagues as T-Ball is extremely funny. BUT if they are so pitiful then what does that say about Rea right now.... Or Ingram, who is on his team... Another fail in logic from ISID

I'm certainly not portraying them as T-ball. I said you have never played T-Ball or anything more advanced than that. Collegiate summer leagues are not the same as SEC. But you keep contending they are because it suits your argument. You're horrible.

[engie]

No kidding. There has literally been no talk of the way Garner flies open vs the slider. His pitch recognition was shit vs SEC pitching. Nobody wants to talk about his timing issues with his trigger he had.

But by god- we got stats

That's been discussed ad nauseam -- and results in update threads every time Garner has a good week at the plate. Of course, Phillip's spreadsheet doesn't show any of this -- so how would he know?

"That's called trouble with the curve, jackass"

[smootness]

This is why the quote feature is so useful. Again you keep making shit up. I completely deny calling for Flair to play 3B over anyone else. In fact this thread I openly questioned what position he would play seeing that Reid was supposed to be the guy at 3B?

http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?2206-Just-heard-we-likely-have-2-baseball-players-transferring

Post number 34 in the thread genius. All politicians are liars I guess.

DH's should have been Flair/Garner. What about having a masher at DH do you not get? Me and WMD are alone on this I guess.

And so you're once again ignoring that we were fine with Flair at DH, Flair wasn't. If you wanted Flair to stay and be solely a DH, your problem is with him, not our staff.

[shoeless joe]

No kidding. There has literally been no talk of the way Garner flies open vs the slider. His pitch recognition was shit vs SEC pitching. Nobody wants to talk about his timing issues with his trigger he had.

But by god- we got stats

You make a good point coach, however I was referring to the triumvirate of diamond know it alls...

But on the same road you are on...I have seen very little on the mechanics or teaching of the game, that is for sure.

[I seen it dawg]

You make a good point coach, however I was referring to the triumvirate of diamond know it alls...

But on the same road you are on...I have seen very little on the mechanics or teaching of the game, that is for sure.

You can be guaranteed that pioneer wouldn't touch that thread

[Pioneer Dawg]

It's all very simple Engine. You conjure up all this stuff when it's very simple. Garner should have DH'd this year more and would have contributed better. Next year we could have had 1B-Garner/Hump/Rea/Ingram/etc... RF-Maybe Hump. DH-Anybody.. With the main thing being Hump AND Garner in the lineup. Maximize everything else after you have set Hump and Garner in the lineup.

[I seen it dawg]

It's all very simple Engine. You conjure up all this stuff when it's very simple. Garner should have DH'd this year more and would have contributed better. Next year we could have had 1B-Garner/Hump/Rea/Ingram/etc... RF-Maybe Hump. DH-Anybody.. With the main thing being Hump AND Garner in the lineup. Maximize everything else after you have set Hump and Garner in the lineup.

Garners issues would not have fixed themselves with more ABs. You don't get the actual playing the game part which, unbeknownst to you, is pretty damn important in determining whether a guy should play or not.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Garners issues would not have fixed themselves with more ABs. You don't get the actual playing the game part which, unbeknownst to you, is pretty damn important in determining whether a guy should play or not.

You must have missed the part where he is currently leading his league in HR and SLG

[I seen it dawg]

You must have missed the part where he is currently leading his league in HR and SLG

I did not. You keep saying it. It's his summer league. You conveniently and continually miss the part about his performance in the SEC...where it actually counts.

[Pioneer Dawg]

I did not. You keep saying it. It's his summer league. You conveniently and continually miss the part about his performance in the SEC...where it actually counts.

Your lack of logic can not be overcome. Consistent playing time.. Sample sizes... You just don't get it and that's okay. I'm not trying to get your vote.

[I seen it dawg]

Your lack of logic can not be overcome. Consistent playing time.. Sample sizes... You just don't get it and that's okay. I'm not trying to get your vote.

Did Lindgren get drafted in the first round?

[Pioneer Dawg]

Did Lindgren get drafted in the first round?

Was it the 8th?

[I seen it dawg]

Was it the 8th?

No it wasn't and I said at the time he would not be a first rounder. And to get out of the 8-9 he would have to have a dramatic improvement. And he did and proved me wrong by going in the 2nd.

You are incapable of doing what I just posted....if you could WJ could possibly see the light of day at some point...but you can't

[Pioneer Dawg]

So I just got an "infraction" for saying I Seen It is the Muhammed Atta of message boards... Because he hijacked my thread.... Get it.. Funny to those with wits.

An infraction.... I was called a mother****er in this thread. Was there an infraction for that?

Seriously.... An infraction....

[DudyDawg]

At this point I'm just impressed you two are still arguing

[I seen it dawg]

At this point I'm just impressed you two are still arguing

It is impressive he would keep going. I thought I would lose him awhile back but he hangs in there and refuses to quit. It's damn funny how fired up he gets and he got an infraction. Serious business there.

[I seen it dawg]

So I just got an "infraction" for saying I Seen It is the Muhammed Atta of message boards... Because he hijacked my thread.... Get it.. Funny to those with wits.

An infraction.... I was called a mother****er in this thread. Was there an infraction for that?

Seriously.... An infraction....

Lol an infraction...classic. You actually started the name calling when I banned that stupid ass Will_James username in the nominations thread. You went full slam face into keyboard angry remember?

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

At this point I'm just impressed you two are still arguing

Bangarang rufio!

[Pioneer Dawg]

Rea down to .115 batting average. K% up to 36%

http://crcbl.bbstats.pointstreak.com/team_stats.html?teamid=6768&seasonid=26720

Daniel Garner avg up to .313.. 6 HR, 23 RBI lead his league. He is also tied for second in his lege with 13 walks helping to boost his OBP to a .402 clip. His league leading .594 SLG number is 28 points higher than the next closest player.

http://www.limalocos.net/statistics/league-leaders.html

Just an update

[msstate7]

Rea down to .115 batting average. K% up to 36%

http://crcbl.bbstats.pointstreak.com/team_stats.html?teamid=6768&seasonid=26720

Daniel Garner avg up to .313.. 6 HR, 23 RBI lead his league. He is also tied for second in his lege with 13 walks helping to boost his OBP to a .402 clip. His league leading .594 SLG number is 28 points higher than the next closest player.

http://www.limalocos.net/statistics/league-leaders.html

Just an update

What is up with rea? Geez this is getting ridiculous

[Todd4State]

Rea down to .115 batting average. K% up to 36%

http://crcbl.bbstats.pointstreak.com/team_stats.html?teamid=6768&seasonid=26720

Daniel Garner avg up to .313.. 6 HR, 23 RBI lead his league. He is also tied for second in his lege with 13 walks helping to boost his OBP to a .402 clip. His league leading .594 SLG number is 28 points higher than the next closest player.

http://www.limalocos.net/statistics/league-leaders.html

Just an update

I'm sure the Shelton State CC fans on this board appreciate the update.

By the way, I like how you glossed over how Garner is second in his league in strikeouts.

[Todd4State]

What is up with rea? Geez this is getting ridiculous

I don't know. I know he sat out a few games until last night. It might have been for an injury, or it might have been to work on some things.

Until he stops trying to hit everything five miles, he is going to struggle.

[Pioneer Dawg]

I'm sure the Shelton State CC fans on this board appreciate the update.

By the way, I like how you glossed over how Garner is second in his league in strikeouts.

And 3rd in plate appearances. This is where you fail again. Garner has a sub-20% K rate... RATE... Rea is tied for 65th in his league in strikeouts, he must be making good contact***

[Todd4State]

And 3rd in plate appearances. This is where you fail again. Garner has a sub-20% K rate... RATE... Rea is tied for 65th in his league in strikeouts, he must be making good contact***

Hey, you were the first one to compare two guys that had a huge discrepancy in plate appearances, not me. So, it's OK for you to do it? Right. LOL. And I didn't say that Rea was making good contact- way to put words in someones mouth to try to fit your agenda again.

The pitchers must suck in that league if the guy that has the second most K's in the league has a sub 20% K RATE.

[engie]

So, we've circled back to the "Garner should be playing first over our gold-glove senior -- even though he proved to our staff that he couldn't play there last year when neither option could hit water" argument... Great**

[Pioneer Dawg]

Hey, you were the first one to compare two guys that had a huge discrepancy in plate appearances, not me. So, it's OK for you to do it? Right. LOL. And I didn't say that Rea was making good contact- way to put words in someones mouth to try to fit your agenda again.

The pitchers must suck in that league if the guy that has the second most K's in the league has a sub 20% K RATE.

Todd's lack of logic
1. "And I didn't say that Rea was making good contact- way to put words in someones mouth to try to fit your agenda again."

- Did you see the *'s? Everyone can read that in the correct sarcastic tone

2. "The pitchers must suck in that league if the guy that has the second most K's in the league has a sub 20% K RATE."

- You cannot compare these two things. They are exclusive. Preston Overbey led the SEC in K's this year with only a 22% K rate. SEC pitchers must suck.

[Pioneer Dawg]

So, we've circled back to the "Garner should be playing first over our gold-glove senior -- even though he proved to our staff that he couldn't play there last year when neither option could hit water" argument... Great**

Dunce. Making shit up again I see. Where did I say Garner should be playing 1st? You actually put quotations in your post because you couldnt use the quote feature because your post is bullshit. Engine gonna Engine.

[engie]

Dunce. Making shit up again I see. Where did I say Garner should be playing 1st? You actually put quotations in your post because you couldnt use the quote feature because your post is bullshit. Engine gonna Engine.

There you go lying again.


He's our best option here so I don't know what u mean. He could also play 1st. Doesn't matter now though because he was run off. U think we could have used Flair in the DH role this year?
You advocating him for DH over Hump -- or 1B.


I think Hump can play RF or 1B. I think Garner can play 1B. Both can be in the lineup. Unless you can use the quote feature and respond SPECIFICALLY to that quote I suggest you not respond.
You -- again advocating for him at 1B.

So, you never said it -- except the multiple times that I just quoted where you did. Go ahead and try to spin your way out of that "bullshit".




Damn this got off topic fast. Garner is leading his league in HR and SLG. Don't act like Ingram, Gordon, Rooker etc bat is near that caliber right now..
Oh -- but Ingram is second in the league in many categories to Garner -- and superior to where Garner was at his age? Say it ain't so. Rooker is superior to where Garner was at the same point in time as well. But you aren't saying ANYTHING that can be considered off-the-wall negative or ridiculous.

[Pioneer Dawg]

CAN play 1B and SHOULD play first base are different Engine. Is he the best defensive option at 1B? Probably not. But if injuries took a toll and it was down to Rea or Garner at 1B I would go with Garner.

[Todd4State]

Todd's lack of logic
1. "And I didn't say that Rea was making good contact- way to put words in someones mouth to try to fit your agenda again."

- Did you see the *'s? Everyone can read that in the correct sarcastic tone

2. "The pitchers must suck in that league if the guy that has the second most K's in the league has a sub 20% K RATE."

- You cannot compare these two things. They are exclusive. Preston Overbey led the SEC in K's this year with only a 22% K rate. SEC pitchers must suck.

Preston Overbey? LOL. Way to make my point.

I'll tell you what- why don't you compare Garner's SEC K% to Overbey's K% and then we'll talk about the pitching comparison in the SEC vs. the mighty Great Lakes League for freshmen baseball players. Nevermind the fact that Garner is a year older than most of the players in the league as well.

I'm sitting on the edge of my seat waiting on you to compare Garner's CC stats to our players SEC stats.

[Todd4State]

CAN play 1B and SHOULD play first base are different Engine. Is he the best defensive option at 1B? Probably not. But if injuries took a toll and it was down to Rea or Garner at 1B I would go with Garner.

That's what's sad. You don't even realize that Garner isn't even as good as Rea at hitting.

Let's see- who hit the home run in the SR against Virginia? Who hit a home run this year in the regional? Who was the MVP of the Governor's Cup this year?

And it's not like the stats don't back up that Rea was better last year. You're hardass about stats on Rea, but Garner gets a pass?

[engie]

CAN play 1B and SHOULD play first base are different Engine. Is he the best defensive option at 1B? Probably not. But if injuries took a toll and it was down to Rea or Garner at 1B I would go with Garner.

Spoiler -- Rea is going to play 1B until he absolutely proves he can not do it. He will not be benched before his SR year regardless of how good Rooker and Ingram look in the fall -- injuries notwithstanding. And we already know you'll be beating this same drum for one/both of them next year -- so save it.

That's why advocating Garner over Rea ABSOLUTELY implies that you think he should have been the starting first baseman. At least, that's what it means to those of us who keep our speculation on our baseball team within the realms of logic instead of making up a rainbowland clean slate and going off that -- based purely on SABR hitting stats while ignoring everything else of equal or greater importance in the part of the game that you have never shown any semblance of an understanding on.

[I seen it dawg]

Preston Overbey? LOL. Way to make my point.

I'll tell you what- why don't you compare Garner's SEC K% to Overbey's K% and then we'll talk about the pitching comparison in the SEC vs. the mighty Great Lakes League for freshmen baseball players. Nevermind the fact that Garner is a year older than most of the players in the league as well.

I'm sitting on the edge of my seat waiting on you to compare Garner's CC stats to our players SEC stats.

I'd be shocked if that happens....

[Pioneer Dawg]

1. Preston Overbey? LOL. Way to make my point.
2. You don't even realize that Garner isn't even as good as Rea at hitting.

1. Uh yeah... K% is not tied directly to number of K's.. This should be common sense.

2.
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/xCukw7m.gif

[Pioneer Dawg]

That's why advocating Garner over Rea ABSOLUTELY implies that you think he should have been the starting first baseman.

It's not Garner over Rea... Its Garner, Hump, Ingram, and maybe Rooker over Rea.

Given the choice of Garner or Rea at 1B, I'd choose Garner. That is NOT to say I think Garner should be our 1B. Can you really not comprehend this?

[engie]

It's not Garner over Rea... Its Garner, Hump, Ingram, and maybe Rooker over Rea.

Given the choice of Garner or Rea at 1B, I'd choose Garner. That is NOT to say I think Garner should be our 1B. Can you really not comprehend this?

No, I do not comprehend it because it's Rainbowland bullshit that's at least 2 degrees from reality.

So, you advocate AT LEAST 4 players with zero live game experience at the position over our 5th year, gold-glove first baseman? That makes sense**

[Pioneer Dawg]

So, you advocate AT LEAST 4 players with zero live game experience at the position over our 5th year, gold-glove first baseman?

Yes, I do.

1B isn't close to a premium defensive spot. Rea made 6 errors last year. Rea can't hit. The first baseman will have the most solid defensive 3B-SS-2B in the league, maybe country, throwing balls to him.. We can sacrifice whatever glove Rea provides (I think you VASTLY overrate him defensively) for someone that isn't an offensive liability.

[engie]

Yes, I do.

1B isn't close to a premium defensive spot. Rea made 6 errors last year. Rea can't hit. The first baseman will have the most solid defensive 3B-SS-2B in the league, maybe country, throwing balls to him.. We can sacrifice whatever glove Rea provides (I think you VASTLY overrate him defensively) for someone that isn't an offensive liability.

And this is why the vast majority of the real baseball people on this board are convinced that you do not know the game beyond what a spreadsheet can tell you.

Rea is a premium 1B -- and he's saved our asses countless times in that position in ways that don't show up on a spreadsheet. Nevermind the amount of confidence throwing to him gives the rest of our infield -- and what effect THAT has on causing the rest of the infield to be so solid defensively. We don't survive the Charlottesville SR without Wes Rea. Spin it however you want.

But because he saw a disappointing year in which he still had a better slugging percentage and on base percentage than "yo boy", not even taking into account the K's, he should be supplanted by any one of 4 underclassmen that haven't proven a thing yet? No.

[Pioneer Dawg]

And this is why the vast majority of the real baseball people

What are you basing everyone here being 100% supportive of Rea being the no-doubt starting 1B next year? Thats simply not accurate. I'd be willing to bet more agree with me. It's nobody's job to lose currently.

And you are still vastly overselling the defensive importance of him at 1B. Many times this year people were questioning his effort over there.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Yes, I do.

1B isn't close to a premium defensive spot. Rea made 6 errors last year. Rea can't hit. The first baseman will have the most solid defensive 3B-SS-2B in the league, maybe country, throwing balls to him.. We can sacrifice whatever glove Rea provides (I think you VASTLY overrate him defensively) for someone that isn't an offensive liability.

Not to stick my head into this argument too much- but a big reason why we are one of the best infields in the country from 3B-SS-2B is because of Rea. If Rea wasn't a vaccum cleaner bailing them out, we'd have a lot more throwing errors from everyone else. At that point, we'd have a bunch of people talking about how we can get to balls but have trouble making accurate throws.

And before you say it, yes I know Rea had six errors last year. But he still made a bunch of great picks that saved our infielders from having throwing errors. Hell, Rea probably saved at least as many errors for our infielders as he actually committed himself last season.

And yes, I also know 1B isn't a premium defensive position. But the fact that Cohen didn't even have the confidence to try Garner there or at catcher during an actual game tells me all I need to know about his defensive abilities and what Cohen was seeing during practice. At the end of the day, if you want to get consistent PT playing for Cohen, you better at least be a decent defender.

[messageboardsuperhero]

What are you basing everyone here being 100% supportive of Rea being the no-doubt starting 1B next year? Thats simply not accurate. I'd be willing to bet more agree with me. It's nobody's job to lose currently.

And you are still vastly overselling the defensive importance of him at 1B. Many times this year people were questioning his effort over there.

Now I will say that I don't think Rea should be handed the job this coming year- and I don't think he will be, considering Cohen has shown that he's willing to bench him.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Not to stick my head into this argument too much- but a big reason why we are one of the best infields in the country from 3B-SS-2B is because of Rea. If Rea wasn't a vaccum cleaner bailing them out, we'd have a lot more throwing errors from everyone else. At that point, we'd have a bunch of people talking about how we can get to balls but have trouble making accurate throws.

And before you say it, yes I know Rea had six errors last year. But he still made a bunch of great picks that saved our infielders from having throwing errors. Hell, Rea probably saved at least as many errors for our infielders as he actually committed himself last season.

And yes, I also know 1B isn't a premium defensive position. But the fact that Cohen didn't even have the confidence to try Garner there or at catcher during an actual game tells me all I need to know about his defensive abilities and what Cohen was seeing during practice. At the end of the day, if you want to get consistent PT playing for Cohen, you better at least be a decent defender.

Solid post. I agree that Rea is the best defensive option, thats not really debatable at all. My point is that being the best 1B doesn't translate to much more value as say being the best SS, C, etc... And I firmly believe that Rea's lack of hitting far outweighs his glove... at 1B.

Your last sentence is what frustrates me.. we have the DH spot that was wasted on Armstrong and Vickerson at many points of the year.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Now I will say that I don't think Rea should be handed the job this coming year- and I don't think he will be, considering Cohen has shown that he's willing to bench him.

That makes the official tally of us two being in this camp... and Engine standing alone.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Solid post. I agree that Rea is the best defensive option, thats not really debatable at all. My point is that being the best 1B doesn't translate to much more value as say being the best SS, C, etc... And I firmly believe that Rea's lack of hitting far outweighs his glove... at 1B.

Your last sentence is what frustrates me.. we have the DH spot that was wasted on Armstrong and Vickerson at many points of the year.

Frankly, I would have rather seen Humphreys get more ABs at DH than anyone last year- especially against LHPs.

ETA: And to reiterate my last sentence of that post, I said CONSISTENT playing time. Cohen uses the DH as a platoon position, so if you want to be an everyday player- learn to play defense.

And for the record, I don't mind platooning DHs. Look at how the A's use the DH- nobody on that team has more than 35% of their DH's total PAs. http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=ALL&teamid=10

If you don't have a dominant Ortiz/Martinez option at DH, then platooning and playing matchups is more than likely going to be your best bet. And if it was me, Humphreys would be getting those DH at bats vs. LHP, not Garner.

[engie]

That makes the official tally of us two being in this camp... and Engine standing alone.

I'd love to see where I said Rea should be "handed the job?"

You and your straw men**

[Pioneer Dawg]

I'd love to see where I said Rea should be "handed the job?"

You and your straw men**

Uhhhhhh


Rea is going to play 1B until he absolutely proves he can not do it. He will not be benched before his SR year regardless of how good Rooker and Ingram look in the fall -- injuries notwithstanding.

[engie]

Uhhhhhh

You don't read and comprehend very good do you? Missing where that dose of reality contained my opinion on what "should" happen.

I realize that reality and opinion are hard to separate in rainbowland.

Rea will have a difficult time struggling enough to not actually be our opening day first baseman? True or false?

[Pioneer Dawg]

You don't read and comprehend very good do you?

Missing where that dose of reality contained my opinion on what "should" happen.

I realize that reality and opinion are hard to separate in rainbowland...

Well whats the point of a message board if the only acceptable opinions are those that you feel will happen...

I think Ingram should start over Rea but that opinion shouldn't even be put out there because its in "rainbowland" because why should I even say it if its "not" going to happen.

You look like a fool here. When people kept saying Josh Robinson should get more carries I agreed... I guess I should have called those opinions "rainbowland" and ridicule those opinions "because its not going to happen"

[Pioneer Dawg]

Everyone who said Dak should have started over TR at the beginning of last year are ridiculous stupid idiots living in rainbowland because that was never going to happen. Why even post if you knew it wasn't going to happen? RETARDS!

- Engine

[engie]

Well whats the point of a message board if the only acceptable opinions are those that you feel will happen...
There's a difference between opinions and predictions that you are apparently too dense to understand.


I think Ingram should start over Rea but that opinion shouldn't even be put out there because its in "rainbowland" because why should I even say it if its "not" going to happen.
Something you have zero basis for at this time. It's rainbowland because it's what you want based on 80 summer league at bats and nothing else. The funny thing is that you THINK you are smarter about this and should be more highly trusted than our coaching staff. That's the part that makes you an idiot. And circles back to rainbowland.


You look like a fool here.
LOL


When people kept saying Josh Robinson should get more carries I agreed... I guess I should have called those opinions "rainbowland" and ridicule those opinions "because its not going to happen"
Funny that I was the one showing Robinson's superiority the entire time. BIG.ASS.DIFFERENCE.

[engie]

Everyone who said Dak should have started over TR at the beginning of last year are ridiculous stupid idiots living in rainbowland because that was never going to happen. Why even post if you knew it wasn't going to happen? RETARDS!

- Engine

"I can't argue your actual opinion -- so I'm just going to falsely attribute a bunch of shit to you and hope people believe it"
- Straw man Philip

[Pioneer Dawg]

Something you have zero basis for at this time.

In your opinion

[pdawg10msu]

Hailstate?

[CadaverDawg]

Let's play "Name That Poster".....

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr06/2013/7/29/6/anigif_enhanced-buzz-15821-1375092629-23.gif

[engie]

In your opinion

In reality.

What you are doing is essentially pining for JRob to be our opening day starting RB in 2012 -- something no one was actually doing, despite most knowing about his potential.

But you are trying to change the entire argument now -- after making it about Garner being a superior option to Rea, Ingram, and Rooker for the longest time, despite me showing you statistically that he was behind where they are at the same point in time in their careers.

First year players aren't going to offset 5th year seniors to start a season. The senior has to lose that spot in games. Sorry if you think things "should" work differently -- it isn't reality.

If Cohen thought it was the least bit likely that either of these guys would be good enough to actually offseat Rea, we wouldn't see Rea coming back. There would be no point in holding that scholarship.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Garner being a superior option to Rea, Ingram, and Rooker for the longest time, something that I showed erroneous at the same point in time in their careers.

Offensively he would have been... You are correct in that assessment. I've never changed anything. YOU like to bring stuff out of nowhere to which I respond to which you say I have now changed an argument.

What I'm essentially doing is calling for the most productive baseball team to play.

I'll play Cad.... Is it.... Engine?

[KB21]

Adam Frazier made a big jump from his freshman to his sophomore year after having a great summer season in the California Intercollegiate league. A year later, Hunter Renfroe made a big jump from his sophomore to junior seasons playing in the Cal Ripken League. There are a couple of candidates who are playing well in both of those leagues that could make big jumps this year.

Dakota Hudson is pitching in the California League and has struck out 18 batters in 14 innings, and hitters have a .118 average off him right now.

Jake Vickerson is hitting .340 in the California League and has 3 doubles and has scored 13 runs in 47 at bats.

Cody Brown is playing very well in the Cal Ripken League, hitting .283 with three home runs.

The surprise player this summer may be Matthew Britton, who is hitting .300 in the Cape League.

[I seen it dawg]

Britton might hit 3 hole next yr....

[Pioneer Dawg]

Britton might hit 3 hole next yr....

Might be a great sabermetric spot for him. Needs to be your 4th-5th best hitter.

[Homedawg]

Might be a great sabermetric spot for him. Needs to be your 4th-5th best hitter.

Speaking of which, weren't you bitching about rea not hitting cleanup early in the year and we had him in the wrong spot? I stand to be corrected. Maybe it wasn't you.

[DudyDawg]

Offensively he would have been... You are correct in that assessment. I've never changed anything. YOU like to bring stuff out of nowhere to which I respond to which you say I have now changed an argument.

What I'm essentially doing is calling for the most productive baseball team to play.

I'll play Cad.... Is it.... Engine?

You said he "brings stuff out of nowhere" then said garner WOULD have been better. That's out of nowhere. He may have been, he may have not, he may have broken an arm on his first swing. YOU DONT KNOW. That's, as you say, out of nowhere. I'm fine with people arguing about who they think should get carries, shots, AB's, but not when it's about a transfer who is "proving" he should've played in summer ball. Y'all need to give it a rest

[I seen it dawg]

Might be a great sabermetric spot for him. Needs to be your 4th-5th best hitter.

Ok reluctantly I will bite....what are you talking about? 4th-5th? Clarify.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Speaking of which, weren't you bitching about rea not hitting cleanup early in the year and we had him in the wrong spot? I stand to be corrected. Maybe it wasn't you.

Don't think I "bitched" about it.. May have said early on he should hit 4th as opposed to 3rd (last time I can find was March 3rd), but actually watching the games play out knew this was a bad idea and that he should move down in the order and eventually not play.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Ok reluctantly I will bite....what are you talking about? 4th-5th? Clarify.

3rd spot needs to be your 4th or 5th best overall hitter. He doesn't have the power for the 5 spot so 3rd may be perfect for him... as our 4th or 5th best hitter.

[I seen it dawg]

Don't think I "bitched" about it.. May have said early on he should hit 4th (last time I can find was March 3rd), but actually watching the games play out knew this was a bad idea.

Holy mother of god!!!!!!!! You are actually capable of admitting you are wrong. Even if you can't type it that way.

Wait a minute is somebody else using this username....

[I seen it dawg]

3rd spot needs to be your 4th or 5th best overall hitter. He doesn't have the power for the 5 spot so 3rd may be perfect for him... as our 4th or 5th best hitter.

Why?

[DudyDawg]

Why?

Ummmm Miguel Cabrera and 2009 Albert Pujols hit there for a reason. Duh

[Pioneer Dawg]

You are actually capable of admitting you are wrong.

I routinely do.

[I seen it dawg]

Ummmm Miguel Cabrera and 2009 Albert Pujols hit there for a reason. Duh

I know you aren't saying they were their teams 4th-5th best overall hitters. Which I'm trying to get an explanation of from him.

[Homedawg]

Here are the only facts of all this - will says garner got screwed. While also saying hump got screwed and wanted Britton and detz playing. Hard to play 4people in 3 positions. He also says rea strikes out a lot. Which is true. Myth-He also says no way garner strikes out more than rea in a full year. Which based on his small sample size is impossible to determine. Fact- we do know is garner- percentage wise is a strikeout machine in his mississippi state career. More so than rea. Fact- we will never know how many times garner will strike out here- thank God.

[DudyDawg]

I know you aren't saying they were their teams 4th-5th best overall hitters. Which I'm trying to get an explanation of from him.

I was saying that they hit fifth, but I guess you could've taken it that way and it would've made about as much sense.

[I seen it dawg]

I routinely do.

Not under the 2 usernames that you frequent.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Why?


Ummmm Miguel Cabrera and 2009 Albert Pujols hit there for a reason. Duh

Well "baseball" has always said to.. But because this spot often comes up with 2 outs and nobody on, it's not as valuable for your best hitter..

I wanted Renfroe hitting 4th because it either guaranteed a person on base for him in the 1st or he would lead us off in the 2nd..

[DudyDawg]

Well, baseball, and Tony Larussa also argued that batting Albert leadoff would've made sense bc of how many more at bats it would've gotten him in a 162 game schedule. I'm not sure what "baseball" you follow that says moving him back on those cards teams would've helped but most people disagreed. Also, you just argued to put a teams best (most valuable) hitter in a spot with lost value? Or am I messing that one up?


ETA: misread you. But, like I seen it said, the amount of AB's lost by moving the best hitter from the three, and the fact that he will hit most doubles proves you wrong.

[I seen it dawg]

Well "baseball" has always said to.. But because this spot often comes up with 2 outs and nobody on, it's not as valuable for your best hitter..

I wanted Renfroe hitting 4th because it either guaranteed a person on base for him in the 1st or he would lead us off in the 2nd..

Your 3 hole hitter during a course of a game will receive more ABs with chances to do damage than any other spot in the lineup. It's more than just the 1st inning that matters. (1st inning with 2 outs...your 3 hole guy is the guy that chances are will hit the most doubles-2 out man in scoring position)

And yes "baseball" has always said to. A lot of pretty good baseball men have kind of gone along with it for a long time even though it's the wrong thing to do. Nobody but you has seemed to figure out it's wrong. This is another example of actually playing baseball that eludes you.

[I seen it dawg]

Where should your best hitter hit and why?

[I seen it dawg]

Well "baseball" has always said to.. But because this spot often comes up with 2 outs and nobody on, it's not as valuable for your best hitter..

I wanted Renfroe hitting 4th because it either guaranteed a person on base for him in the 1st or he would lead us off in the 2nd..

It isn't relative after the first inning.

[Pioneer Dawg]

It isn't relative after the first inning.

Exactly. the 1st time through the order is the only one you control so maximize it

[Pioneer Dawg]

But, like I seen it said, the amount of AB's lost by moving the best hitter from the three, and the fact that he will hit most doubles proves you wrong.

Uh, ok***

[Pioneer Dawg]

Where should your best hitter hit and why?

Best overall with power 4th
High on-base guy 1st
Next best 2nd
Then 5th and 3rd
Then 6-7-8-9

Generally

Oakland is doing this... Look at the results

[DudyDawg]

So, moving a prime batter from third to fifth over 162 games is statistically a massive difference in ABs? You love stats, so look up that. I would imagine it's a pretty big loss.

[I seen it dawg]

Uh, ok***

Where should your best hitter hit and why?

Eta....Best all around hitter. Where and why?

[Homedawg]

Will James- I give you credit for one thing- when you have no response and or have no comeback, you do a great job of ignoring it and letting it "go" away better than anyone on this board. Countless times you do it and no question why, you are like a bad politician, ignore it long enough and you win. Kudos. I mean it

[Pioneer Dawg]

Nobody but you has seemed to figure out it's wrong. This is another example of actually playing baseball that eludes you.

Well the Athletics.. Far and away the best offense in baseball.. Agree with me. Donaldson hits 3rd. He's their 5th most productive bat.

Source: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=200&type=8&season=2014&month=0&season1=2014&ind=0&team=10&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=15,d

They also often lead their catchers off because of their OBP

[I seen it dawg]

Best overall with power 4th
High on-base guy 1st
Next best 2nd
Then 5th and 3rd.. More power 5th
Then 6-7-8-9

Generally

The why here is overly vague...and the generally at the end leaves you crawfishing room. Come on man you pretend to be better than that. Bring it.

[I seen it dawg]

Well the Athletics.. Far and away the best offense in baseball.. Agree with me. Donaldson hits 3rd. He's their 5th most productive bat.

Source: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=200&type=8&season=2014&month=0&season1=2014&ind=0&team=10&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=15,d

They also often lead their catchers off because of their OBP

Then it's a historical anomaly. What's great about baseball is that the anomalies sometimes work. Historically though it's not the way to do it. Generally.

[I seen it dawg]

Well the Athletics.. Far and away the best offense in baseball.. Agree with me. Donaldson hits 3rd. He's their 5th most productive bat.

Source: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=200&type=8&season=2014&month=0&season1=2014&ind=0&team=10&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=15,d

They also often lead their catchers off because of their OBP

Because he is their most dangerous hitter. Which you want hitting third. Not just what the stats say. It's more than numbers. If he hits a slump for 4 games you drop him to 9th?

It's got nothing to do where the manager puts him as far as him sitting there saying " he my 5th most productive bat"

And now it's "most productive" by some stat machine when you started with 4th-5th BEST hitter....you've changed your argument and didn't even realize it. Another example of not playing the game, you are now talking about 2 different things.

[Homedawg]

The a's and sabermetrics- the beginning of moneyball- has as more to do draft wise with dodging high school guys that were projectable, and replacing them w college guys w tract records than any other thing.

[Pioneer Dawg]

So, moving a prime batter from third to fifth over 162 games is statistically a massive difference in ABs? You love stats, so look up that. I would imagine it's a pretty big loss.

Lineup Position Plate Appearances
1 767
2 749
3 732
4 714
5 697
6 680
7 661
8 643
9 625

I wouldn't be moving a guy like Miggy or Pujols from 3rd to 5th though.. 3rd and 5th are for your 4th and 5th best hitters.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Because he is their most dangerous hitter. Which you want hitting third.

Prove it.

[Homedawg]

Lineup Position Plate Appearances
1 767
2 749
3 732
4 714
5 697
6 680
7 661
8 643
9 625

I wouldn't be moving a guy like Miggy or Pujols from 3rd to 5th though.. 3rd and 5th are for your 4th and 5th best hitters.

4th or 5th best hitters or on base guys? Just for clarification.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Then it's a historical anomaly.

You are being anti-science here.

America is a historical anomaly as far as countries go.. More knowledge means smarter decisions. Many in baseball are embracing that.

[I seen it dawg]

Prove it.

Is Cabrera Detroits most dangerous hitter? I am still waiting on proof why you put your 4th-5th BEST hitter in the 3 hole?

And how do YOU determine who your best hitter is?

[Pioneer Dawg]

4th or 5th best hitters or on base guys? Just for clarification.

Overall production... wOBA... Most of the time they go hand in hand, but not always..

I said "generally" because obviously no two teams are the same but the general rule applies. Its still case by case. You do not want BJ Upton and Simmons hitting 1-2.

[DudyDawg]

Well, isn't Donaldson leading them in HRs? Legitimately asking

[I seen it dawg]

Lineup Position Plate Appearances
1 767
2 749
3 732
4 714
5 697
6 680
7 661
8 643
9 625

I wouldn't be moving a guy like Miggy or Pujols from 3rd to 5th though.. 3rd and 5th are for your 4th and 5th best hitters.

So they are their teams 4th-5th BEST hitters?

[Homedawg]

Is Cabrera Detroits most dangerous hitter? I am still waiting on proof why you put your 4th-5th BEST hitter in the 3 hole?

And how do YOU determine who your best hitter is?
Bc you put your third best in the clean up spot*** he already told you.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Is Cabrera Detroits most dangerous hitter? I am still waiting on proof why you put your 4th-5th BEST hitter in the 3 hole?

And how do YOU determine who your best hitter is?

Yes.. Why do you equate just because he is hitting 3rd that the "most dangerous hitter" should hit 3rd? The Tigers aren't leading the MLB in runs scored, the A's are.

Donaldson is not their "most dangerous hitter"

[DudyDawg]

Lineup Position Plate Appearances
1 767
2 749
3 732
4 714
5 697
6 680
7 661
8 643
9 625

I wouldn't be moving a guy like Miggy or Pujols from 3rd to 5th though.. 3rd and 5th are for your 4th and 5th best hitters.

So Miguel is the THIRD best hitter on his own team????? You contradict yourself so often. Shit, how many experts (not you) would consider him the third best hitter in the AL

[I seen it dawg]

Overall production... wOBA... Most of the time they go hand in hand, but not always..

I said "generally" because obviously no two teams are the same but the general rule applies. Its still case by case. You do not want BJ Upton and Simmons hitting 1-2.

Oh wait a minute now....so now it's "most of the time", "generally", "case by case", "no two teams are the same". Keep going you are working your way out of your original stance.

[DudyDawg]

Yes.. Why do you equate just because he is hitting 3rd that the "most dangerous hitter" should hit 3rd? The Tigers aren't leading the MLB in runs scored, the A's are.

Donaldson is not their "most dangerous hitter"

Who's their HR leader

[Pioneer Dawg]

Who's their HR leader

Well, isn't Donaldson leading them in HRs? Legitimately asking

Tied with Moss.. HR aren't the measure of overall production.. Ask Adam Dunn or Chris Carter

[Pioneer Dawg]

Oh wait a minute now....so now it's "most of the time", "generally", "case by case", "no two teams are the same". Keep going you are working your way out of your original stance.

Don't play Engine... Dudy and Home are actually trying to learn here

[Homedawg]

Overall production... wOBA... Most of the time they go hand in hand, but not always..

I said "generally" because obviously no two teams are the same but the general rule applies. Its still case by case. You do not want BJ Upton and Simmons hitting 1-2.

Why would you not? Just seeing the saber way of doing it right?

[Homedawg]

Don't play Engine... Dudy and Home are actually trying to learn here

Trying to learn.........I just pissed on myself

[I seen it dawg]

Yes.. Why do you equate just because he is hitting 3rd that the "most dangerous hitter" should hit 3rd? The Tigers aren't leading the MLB in runs scored, the A's are.

Donaldson is not their "most dangerous hitter"

The most dangerous guy is the guy most likely to do damage more times than anyone else.

The As lineup is performing better as a whole the Detroit.

You still haven't touched the whole point where this started....why should the 4th-5th BEST hitter on your team hit in 3 hole? And in addition where do you put your BEST hitter and why?

[Pioneer Dawg]

So Miguel is the THIRD best hitter on his own team????? You contradict yourself so often. Shit, how many experts (not you) would consider him the third best hitter in the AL

Dont be ignorant. He is their best hitter... He should be hitting 4th based on his norms... Just because he is out of position doesn't mean I am saying that...

But IF you want to get technical Miguel Cabrera has been their 3rd best hitter this year behind the Martinez duo so maybe he should be leading off

[Homedawg]

Don't play Engine... Dudy and Home are actually trying to learn here

Another great example of you dodging it- no response and it goes away....

[DudyDawg]

First in HR, first in RBI, 5th in doubles, 3rd in OWAR, second in BB.

He ain't exactly chop liver. And that's on an anomaly of a team

And I'm not trying to learn, I'm just tired of seeing you post like an expert

[I seen it dawg]

Don't play Engine... Dudy and Home are actually trying to learn here

I'm not playing anyone. I really want to know an answer to the question I keep asking you which you won't answer. Why do you put your 4th-5th BEST hitter in the 3 hole? Learn me...

[DudyDawg]

Dont be ignorant. He is their best hitter... He should be hitting 4th based on his norms... Just because he is out of position doesn't mean I am saying that...

But IF you want to get technical Miguel Cabrera has been their 3rd best hitter this year behind the Martinez duo so maybe he should be leading off

Call Ausmus and fix that shit then!!!!! How dare they put him out of position!!!!

You call me ignorant, then say he is out of position. Implying their coach isn't as smart as you. And you wonder why you got banned/win awards for sucking. Dude. Come on

[I seen it dawg]

Dont be ignorant. He is their best hitter... He should be hitting 4th based on his norms... Just because he is out of position doesn't mean I am saying that...

But IF you want to get technical Miguel Cabrera has been their 3rd best hitter this year behind the Martinez duo so maybe he should be leading off

So would you move him to leadoff?

[Pioneer Dawg]

The most dangerous guy is the guy most likely to do damage more times than anyone else.

The As lineup is performing better as a whole the Detroit.

You still haven't touched the whole point where this started....why should the 4th-5th BEST hitter on your team hit in 3 hole? And in addition where do you put your BEST hitter and why?

I keep looking but I can't find the "dangerous" or "damage" stat anywhere? What formula is this and how do you measure it ISID?

The 4th-5th best hitter should hit 3rd because of the propensity to come up with nobody on and 2 outs.. It would be a waste to have your masher hit here. I think I said this earlier..

[Pioneer Dawg]

So would you move him to leadoff?

Did you read my post?

Clearly says "he should be hitting 4th"

[DudyDawg]

STATS ARE ALL THAT MATTER!!!

[Pioneer Dawg]

Implying their coach isn't as smart as you. And you wonder why you got banned/win awards for sucking. Dude. Come on

Implying he isn't as smart as the people leading the league in runs scored

[Pioneer Dawg]

Why would you not? Just seeing the saber way of doing it right?

Because they don't get on base

[I seen it dawg]

I keep looking but I can't find the "dangerous" or "damage" stat anywhere? What formula is this and how do you measure it ISID?

The 4th-5th best hitter should hit 3rd because of the propensity to come up with nobody on and 2 outs.. It would be a waste to have your masher hit here. I think I said this earlier..

You're muther****ing right you can't. Because a stat will not wholly define the 3 hole hitter. Because it would be stupid to.

[Homedawg]

Implying he isn't as smart as the people leading the league in runs scored

So the team that leads the league in runs is automatically the smartest manager? Wow

[Pioneer Dawg]

STATS ARE ALL THAT MATTER!!!

What would you replace them with? The "gut feeling"?

[Pioneer Dawg]

You're muther****ing right you can't. Because a stat will not wholly define the 3 hole hitter. Because it would be stupid to.

That's logical

[DudyDawg]

Did you read my post?

Clearly says "he should be hitting 4th"

"So maybe he should be leading off"

[Pioneer Dawg]

So the team that leads the league in runs is automatically the smartest manager? Wow

They seem to have the smartest lineups

[Pioneer Dawg]

"So maybe he should be leading off"


Here - **

I apologize if you couldn't comprehend

[I seen it dawg]

I keep looking but I can't find the "dangerous" or "damage" stat anywhere? What formula is this and how do you measure it ISID?

The 4th-5th best hitter should hit 3rd because of the propensity to come up with nobody on and 2 outs.. It would be a waste to have your masher hit here. I think I said this earlier..

You did say it earlier and it's still wrong. So because 1 AB out of 4 should make the decision? Isn't that 25% of the time? That stat I get.

4th-5th BEST hitter in the 3 hole? Where do you put the best 3-4? WHY?

[DudyDawg]

What would you replace them with? The "gut feeling"?

Let's equate it to football. Does the stat of a FF in OT in the last Ole Miss Mississippi state game te you the whole story? Does it tell you that it made a massive impact on recruits, got one team bowl eligible, was a game winner, in a rivalry? My point is, looking at a book doesn't tell you all you need. It's important, yes, but not nearly everything

[Homedawg]

They seem to have the smartest lineups

Or it's not a "normal" year or some bs.

[I seen it dawg]

Dont be ignorant. He is their best hitter... He should be hitting 4th based on his norms... Just because he is out of position doesn't mean I am saying that...

But IF you want to get technical Miguel Cabrera has been their 3rd best hitter this year behind the Martinez duo so maybe he should be leading off

This sure sounds like one of your "I'm smarter than any of you" shots you like to take...according to everything you preach he should hit leadoff with this statement but you would hit him 4th. Come on now homey

[Pioneer Dawg]

Let's equate it to football.

That would be silly

[I seen it dawg]

I'm not playing anyone. I really want to know an answer to the question I keep asking you which you won't answer. Why do you put your 4th-5th BEST hitter in the 3 hole? Learn me...

Pioneer you still haven't answered this...

[DudyDawg]

Here - **

I apologize if you couldn't comprehend

I was just taking the will James school of only using what is on paper. No judgement, conjecture. What's written is what is meant.

[DudyDawg]

That would be silly

You forgot to highlight it all

[Pioneer Dawg]

Can you prove where the most "dangerous" hitter is most productive hitting 3rd?

[I seen it dawg]

Let's equate it to football. Does the stat of a FF in OT in the last Ole Miss Mississippi state game te you the whole story? Does it tell you that it made a massive impact on recruits, got one team bowl eligible, was a game winner, in a rivalry? My point is, looking at a book doesn't tell you all you need. It's important, yes, but not nearly everything


Don't let him get off track by changing to a different way to try to convince him he's wrong