So Kendall Rogers doesn't have us anywhere near Omaha next year?

[Goat Holder]

I read his little 8 for Omaha article. How do you ignore this:

- 12 seniors, if none get cut or transfer (Randolph, Hudspeth), so you theoretically SHOULD have leadership
- Entire starting rotation coming back from a regional team that went 18-12 in the SEC, 3 of them seniors (Fitts, Laster, Real Deal, P. Brown). Oh, we lost Lindgren, you say? Who cares, Real Deal is moving back to the pen. Tatum will handle folks too.
- 6 returning position player starters, including SS and C, the most important
- One of the Top Ten recruiting classes in 2013 are now second year players
- A coach who has really failed to disappoint, and seemingly always gets the most out of his talent

How does one look at that, and NOT see a potentially ELITE team? We will be better than this season, guaranteed. 2015/2016 will be our best seasons yet.

[starkvegasdawg]

Because he is only going to take the safe bets. That way if they don't pan out he can have his list of excuses ready. That's why after last season he had us going back this season. We were the safe bet. That's why most of the teams that went to teh CWS this year or were close made his list for next year. Yes, we have the potential to be elite in baseball next year but many thought that this season too. We disappointed. He won't risk getting burned twice.

[msstate7]

Losing our best 2 pitchers, no proven starters, and only a couple hitters (Collins and heck). I think we'll be a better team next season, but I can see why there's no hype

[RougeDawg]

Since I haven't seen where Pirtle signed sfter being selected in the 23rd (no way he's not a top 10-15 round pick), he will be only one of a handful of hitters we have returning that can hit their way out of a wet paper bag. This lack of hitting along with the pitchers we lost and I wouldn't expect to be anywhere near Omaha in his 2015 predictions.

[Homedawg]

Since I haven't seen where Pirtle signed sfter being selected in the 23rd (no way he's not a top 10-15 round pick), he will be only one of a handful of hitters we have returning that can hit their way out of a wet paper bag. This lack of hitting along with the pitchers we lost and I wouldn't expect to be anywhere near Omaha in his 2015 predictions.

Pirtle was a senior.

[RAYn_Man]

Since I haven't seen where Pirtle signed sfter being selected in the 23rd (no way he's not a top 10-15 round pick), he will be only one of a handful of hitters we have returning that can hit their way out of a wet paper bag. This lack of hitting along with the pitchers we lost and I wouldn't expect to be anywhere near Omaha in his 2015 predictions.

Facepalm.

[MsStateBaseball]

Kendall keeps up with PG recruit rankings only. He has seen us play in person and made notes, etc. We don't have a shut down true Friday night starter in his opinion, like these other teams he has. (as of right now, we don't have one to emerge) Going off last years offense stats, we didn't do well. I trust Baseball America more than him. Right now, I don't worry about it. We have lots of work to do getting these guys ready during the fall. Several guys need to step up, Humphreys, Hudson, etc. We need to have a great fall where the really talented guys develop and become starters, bottom line.

[HancockCountyDog]

Losing our best 2 pitchers, no proven starters, and only a couple hitters (Collins and heck). I think we'll be a better team next season, but I can see why there's no hype

Losing the best closer in college baseball is going to the most difficult to replace. Holder was the ultimate stopper. We became so spoiled by how good he was. You can't underestimate his loss. Lindgren was obviously elite, and will be missed, but not as much as Holder.

Our biggest problem was offense, our top 2 hitters were Bradford and Pirtle. We also lose Henderson (.407 OBP) and Armstrong. Neither are irreplaceable, but the point is that we have guys that will need to perform at a much higher rate than they have in the past.

Now we have some solid pieces in Heck and Collins, and I believe in Rea, but we are a long way from a finished product.

I agree with Rougedawg, the overall lack of hitting and the fact that we lost our two best pitchers - I would expect us to be ranked between 20-35 headed into next year.

[DudyDawg]

Having pirtle back will help!!!*

[preachermatt83]

unless there is a ton of improvement in a lot of places then we wont sniff Omaha and possibly not even a regional. We will still be a singles team who lost our best "singles" hitters and also lost two of our 3 best pitchers. So yea, Getting mad at KR for this prediction is dumb. I have us as a 30 win team next year at best.

[DudyDawg]

unless there is a ton of improvement in a lot of places then we wont sniff Omaha and possibly not even a regional. We will still be a singles team who lost our best "singles" hitters and also lost two of our 3 best pitchers. So yea, Getting mad at KR for this prediction is dumb. I have us as a 30 win team next year at best.

Not getting to a regional?? That's cynical

[smootness]

unless there is a ton of improvement in a lot of places then we wont sniff Omaha and possibly not even a regional. We will still be a singles team who lost our best "singles" hitters and also lost two of our 3 best pitchers. So yea, Getting mad at KR for this prediction is dumb. I have us as a 30 win team next year at best.

Good grief, dude.

[preachermatt83]

Not getting to a regional?? That's cynical

our sec schedule will not be nearly as easy next year as it was this yr. this years Sec Schedule was easiest we could have hoped for.

[preachermatt83]

Good grief, dude.

name one of my statements that is not possible.

[Coach34]

Rogers had us as an Omaha favorite for 2014...he clearly missed. I think we will survive his prognostication

[DudyDawg]

our sec schedule will not be nearly as easy next year as it was this yr. this years Sec Schedule was easiest we could have hoped for.

Doesn't mean we won't sniff Omaha or go to a regional. I would say there are a few programs recently that you can say will be a near guarantee to make a regional, and we are one right now.

[MsStateBaseball]

Like I said on my blog for 2015, we will go to SECT, we will go to a Regional. To host a regional and/or go to a Super and beyond, is still too early. Lots of factors. I will have to wait until the end of fall ball to determine that.

[messageboardsuperhero]

I don't have a problem with him picking us outside of his top 20 or so- we simply have a lot of question marks going into 2015, particularly from an outsider's perspective. Now, we do have a good bit of talent, but it needs to develop. Dakota Hudson needs to be better (and he didn't have a very good start last night for his summer team, so hopefully he was just testing some new stuff out), Humphreys needs to make a jump, Rea needs to hit the damn ball with authority on a consistent basis, etc. I feel like our ceiling is pretty high for next year- but young guys need to play to their potential.

I really don't care where we are in any of the early rankings anyway. College baseball is damn near impossible to predict- especially 8 months out.

[messageboardsuperhero]

unless there is a ton of improvement in a lot of places then we wont sniff Omaha and possibly not even a regional. We will still be a singles team who lost our best "singles" hitters and also lost two of our 3 best pitchers. So yea, Getting mad at KR for this prediction is dumb. I have us as a 30 win team next year at best.

30 wins at best? LOL. That's a bully99 type of prediction.

Bookmarked and we'll revisit this later.

[maroonmania]

I don't have a problem with him picking us outside of his top 20 or so- we simply have a lot of question marks going into 2015, particularly from an outsider's perspective. Now, we do have a good bit of talent, but it needs to develop. Dakota Hudson needs to be better (and he didn't have a very good start last night for his summer team, so hopefully he was just testing some new stuff out), Humphreys needs to make a jump, Rea needs to hit the damn ball with authority on a consistent basis, etc. I feel like our ceiling is pretty high for next year- but young guys need to play to their potential.

I really don't care where we are in any of the early rankings anyway. College baseball is damn near impossible to predict- especially 8 months out.

I don't have a problem with lower expectations next year either. We COULD be better in 2015 than we were in 2014 but there is no doubt we go into 2015 with many more question marks than 2014. A lot depends on talented younger players being ready to step up and contribute and having some pitchers that haven't pitched a lot be ready to take over in the bullpen. And yes, we have our starters all back but nobody knows what we get out of a recovering Preston Brown, Laster only started during the last month, and Fitts is a decent starter but rarely dominant. Mitchell will likely go back to the bullpen which should certainly help there. But hey, OM went into 2014 with many more question marks than 2013 and they ended up among the last 4 standing in Omaha so who knows.

[gravedigger]

I just thank goodness that the NCAA decided not to use Kendall as the determiner of who actually gets to go to Omaha.

[CadaverDawg]

unless there is a ton of improvement in a lot of places then we wont sniff Omaha and possibly not even a regional. We will still be a singles team who lost our best "singles" hitters and also lost two of our 3 best pitchers. So yea, Getting mad at KR for this prediction is dumb. I have us as a 30 win team next year at best.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CpEN81eb_l0/Th8rwpdZ_aI/AAAAAAAAAIw/KcnRjE1IZwU/s320/C%2527Mon%2BMan.jpg

[Goat Holder]

I don't have a problem with lower expectations next year either. We COULD be better in 2015 than we were in 2014 but there is no doubt we go into 2015 with many more question marks than 2014. A lot depends on talented younger players being ready to step up and contribute and having some pitchers that haven't pitched a lot be ready to take over in the bullpen. And yes, we have our starters all back but nobody knows what we get out of a recovering Preston Brown, Laster only started during the last month, and Fitts is a decent starter but rarely dominant. Mitchell will likely go back to the bullpen which should certainly help there. But hey, OM went into 2014 with many more question marks than 2013 and they ended up among the last 4 standing in Omaha so who knows.

I agree in theory but 'question marks' is so misguiding. We had a lot of constants last year but who could see Detz/Rea regressing the way they did? They weren't question marks last year but they sure appear to be now. So now, I've got a different system of evaluating......who will step up and be our offensive leaders? In that vein, the only question marks I see is whether Collins/Humphreys develop into our team leading hitters. We need 2 at least, then the rest can be role players. Maybe it's Britton? Holland? Even Rea? Who knows if the light comes on. Those are all guys you can 'see' doing it, and with power.

Pitching wise, I do not have a worry at all. 2 senior starters. One battle tested 5th year inning eating senior out of the pen. A number of talented guys available to take over the 3rd spot (P. Brown, Hudson, Sexton, Young). A host of other relievers and set up guys (Tatum, Gentry, Cox, Shelly). Haven't even gotten to the redshirt freshman and true freshmen.

[msstate7]

Ross has been an inning eater and a very good pitcher for us, but he needs to be used less often next season IMO. He seems to have faded in the postseason and I wonder how much is attributed to fatigue. I'd like to have Ross at full strength down the stretch

[Goat Holder]

Ross has been an inning eater and a very good pitcher for us, but he needs to be used less often next season IMO. He seems to have faded in the postseason and I wonder how much is attributed to fatigue. I'd like to have Ross at full strength down the stretch

Agreed, he threw like 8 complete games this season, that gets to even most rubber of arms

[maroonmania]

Ross has been an inning eater and a very good pitcher for us, but he needs to be used less often next season IMO. He seems to have faded in the postseason and I wonder how much is attributed to fatigue. I'd like to have Ross at full strength down the stretch

I also believe Ross was breaking down toward the end of the year. He is physically frail anyway and for him to go out as a starter every week usually giving 7 innings plus is a lot to ask of him. That is much tougher on him than pitching a couple of 2 to 3 innings stints per week out of the bullpen.

[Todd4State]

Our worst case scenario would be 30 wins. That would be us having a year like this year where literally everything that could go wrong did.

The pitching should be about the same, the bullpen will be worse and we should hit better and the defense will likely be about the same.

[Pioneer Dawg]

If we win 30 games it will be because we lead the nation in sac bunts.

[Todd4State]

I also believe Ross was breaking down toward the end of the year. He is physically frail anyway and for him to go out as a starter every week usually giving 7 innings plus is a lot to ask of him. That is much tougher on him than pitching a couple of 2 to 3 innings stints per week out of the bullpen.

He did break down, but I agree with Goat. To me, being a starting pitcher is little bit more of a grind because of the routine that they have to follow as well.

[MarketingBully01]

He did break down, but I agree with Goat. To me, being a starting pitcher is little bit more of a grind because of the routine that they have to follow as well.

Bottom line Ross was moved to a starter role out of necessity because Woodruff never stepped up due to injury and not being fully recovered. Bottom line, we should be able to move him back to the pen this year. We have Fitts, Laster, and it would be great if Hudson is that third starter or if Brown can be that guy once he is fully recovered. We need Hudson to develop a good secondary pitch to go with his plus fastball. He could be a big time ace if he can develop a good curve ball or change. Anytime you can hit 95+ with your fastball you have a bit of an edge.

[Pioneer Dawg]

I don't think we should be counting on Fitts as a no-doubt starter

[Saltydog]

at all and he was far from a sure thing. He pitched well down the stretch but statistically speaking, he was far from the best closer in the nation this year. Also, statistically speaking his stats got worse each year but then again when you have an era as miniscule as he had his first two years, it's hard to do any better than what he did as a frosh and soph.

[Todd4State]

Bottom line Ross was moved to a starter role out of necessity because Woodruff never stepped up due to injury and not being fully recovered. Bottom line, we should be able to move him back to the pen this year. We have Fitts, Laster, and it would be great if Hudson is that third starter or if Brown can be that guy once he is fully recovered. We need Hudson to develop a good secondary pitch to go with his plus fastball. He could be a big time ace if he can develop a good curve ball or change. Anytime you can hit 95+ with your fastball you have a bit of an edge.

I agree about Hudson. His summer has been very encouraging to me so far. Really, to me we need Vance Tatum, Austin Sexton, or Jesse McCord to be the third guy. I'm just not sold on Preston Brown being anything more than a midweek/ mop up guy becuase of his health.

[Todd4State]

I don't think we should be counting on Fitts as a no-doubt starter

Troll attempt fail.

Fitts is more likely to be a starter than Ross or Laster right now.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Troll attempt fail.

Hahaha you're such a loser. Gotta keep that "cred" right**

[Pioneer Dawg]

Fitts is more likely to be a starter than Ross or Laster right now.

1st off I didn't say "he wouldn't start" just that its not a guarantee… Troll

Fitts averaged just 4.1 IP per start this year. For his career he is averaging 3.2 IP per start. In only 4 of his 22 career starts has he logged 6 innings, but its "crazy" to think he may get beat out by 3 more solid options…. Troll

Averaged just 4 IP in 11 SEC starts.

Hudson, Tatum, Sexton, Laster, Ross, Brown… See ya on Tuesdays Trevor

[engie]

Fitts averaged just 4.1 IP per start this year.

Had nothing at all to do with the best reliever in the country coming behind him**

Fitts had the shortest hook of any pitcher we've had under Cohen because we had Lindgren coming next.

[Coach34]

Will James/Pioneer- let me explain something.

Cohen is going to start Fitts next year on weekends. Why? Because he is a veteran that will give him 4-5 solid innings. We dont mind going to the pen and that trend will continue. We really arent looking for guys to go 7 innings in a start per say- we dont mind doing tandem pitching.

Cohen gonna stick to his vets and start Fitts

[Pioneer Dawg]

When I have time I will look at Fitts opponents batting average 1st time thru compared to 2nd.. Yeah he was relieved early but only because most of the time he would dig a severe hole for himself and needed Lindgren to bail him out.

We all know this. How many times was it mentioned that he can't get thru more than once.

[Todd4State]

Hahaha you're such a loser. Gotta keep that "cred" right**

One way to get "cred" is to not make outlandish comments about the only guy on the staff that has started a CWS game and was the only guy to start from week one going forward in SEC play.

[Todd4State]

When I have time I will look at Fitts opponents batting average 1st time thru compared to 2nd.. Yeah he was relieved early but only because most of the time he would dig a severe hole for himself and needed Lindgren to bail him out.

We all know this. How many times was it mentioned that he can't get thru more than once.

A runner on first ands second on in the fourth inning is a "severe hole" now?

How many times Fitts can get through the lineup is irrelevant with Cohen. He has proven that he can start games- which is something Lindgren couldn't do. If he struggles, we'll likely bring in Laster if I had to guess based on what Cohen has said. He won't have to get through the lineup more than twice worst case scenario.

[Todd4State]

1st off I didn't say "he wouldn't start" just that its not a guarantee… Troll

Fitts averaged just 4.1 IP per start this year. For his career he is averaging 3.2 IP per start. In only 4 of his 22 career starts has he logged 6 innings, but its "crazy" to think he may get beat out by 3 more solid options…. Troll

Averaged just 4 IP in 11 SEC starts.

Hudson, Tatum, Sexton, Laster, Ross, Brown… See ya on Tuesdays Trevor

Only way Fitts isn't in our weekend rotation is if he is hurt. More than likely it's going to be Fitts, Ross, and Hudson with Laster coming in relief. The bullpen of course is up in the air at this point.

[Todd4State]

Had nothing at all to do with the best reliever in the country coming behind him**

Fitts had the shortest hook of any pitcher we've had under Cohen because we had Lindgren coming next.

Exactly. You would think that this would have been obvious to everyone.

But no- let's do some advanced statistical research that ignores several key factors while beating the hell out of only one point that factored into the entire decision.

[CadaverDawg]

A runner on first ands second on in the fourth inning is a "severe hole" now?

How many times Fitts can get through the lineup is irrelevant with Cohen. He has proven that he can start games- which is something Lindgren couldn't do. If he struggles, we'll likely bring in Laster if I had to guess based on what Cohen has said. He won't have to get through the lineup more than twice worst case scenario.

Would be great to groom Hudson and either Tatum or Sexton as weekend guys, and Laster as our 3rd starter....and then have Fitts, Ross, and Tatum/Sexton in the pen behind them. I feel like Fitts has gutted it out and provided us with a decent starting pitcher.....but he is not a typical weekend starter in the SEC. He would provide us with a good right arm in middle relief.

I know Cohen won't do that, but it would probably be a good move to consider.

I think I'm just ready to get back to having a true Ace Friday night starter. Seems like injuries and guys not having stones has kept us from having an Ace lately.

[Todd4State]

Would be great to groom Hudson and either Tatum or Sexton as weekend guys, and Laster as our 3rd starter....and then have Fitts, Ross, and Tatum/Sexton in the pen behind them. I feel like Fitts has gutted it out and provided us with a decent starting pitcher.....but he is not a typical weekend starter in the SEC. He would provide us with a good right arm in middle relief.

I know Cohen won't do that, but it would probably be a good move to consider.

He's probably more typical weekend starter than a lot of people realize. More accurately, we don't use him typically. He's not a typical SEC ace, but at worst he's a number three guy. His ERA in SEC play was well under 2. I wouldn't be surprised if sabermetrics doesn't like him because he allows some hits, isn't overpowering, and etc. But he does the job for the most part and does what is asked of him.

You have to also consider that he will likely be one of our leaders on our pitching staff, and that makes him even more likley to be in the rotation among other things.

Really what we need are Hudson and Tatum to be 5-7 IP guys.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Henderson started both games of the CWS final. Cohen had no problem benching him. Same for Rea near the end last year (and hopefully next year.. Go Ingram)

We have better options than Fitts

[CadaverDawg]

He's probably more typical weekend starter than a lot of people realize. More accurately, we don't use him typically. He's not a typical SEC ace, but at worst he's a number three guy. His ERA in SEC play was well under 2. I wouldn't be surprised if sabermetrics doesn't like him because he allows some hits, isn't overpowering, and etc. But he does the job for the most part and does what is asked of him.

You have to also consider that he will likely be one of our leaders on our pitching staff, and that makes him even more likley to be in the rotation among other things.

Really what we need are Hudson and Tatum to be 5-7 IP guys.

I agree. He would pass as a Sunday guy....I'm just referring to being a Friday night guy. I wish we could get him out of that role, and selfishly I'd love to see him in long relief because I'm ready to see these Sophomore arms get in there and get comfortable. But hopefully we will see them a lot in long relief if they don't start

[Todd4State]

Henderson started both games of the CWS final. Cohen had no problem benching him. Same for Rea near the end last year (and hopefully next year.. Go Ingram)

We have better options than Fitts

Platooning = benching?

If you want to troll, there's a place called sixpackspeak. Otherwise, let the grown ups talk about sports.

[Todd4State]

I agree. He would pass as a Sunday guy....I'm just referring to being a Friday night guy. I wish we could get him out of that role, and selfishly I'd love to see him in long relief because I'm ready to see these Sophomore arms get in there and get comfortable. But hopefully we will see them a lot in long relief if they don't start

It just depends on how Hudson and the others do. To start with, I suspect it will be Fitts on Friday, Ross on Sat., and Hudson on Sun. most likely. But, if Hudson or someone else does really well Cohen won't have a problem moving him up to the Saturday or even Friday spot I don't think.

[msstate7]

Speaking of pitchers... Are we expecting our TJ guys back next season? Did Preston have any surgery? Preston is the guy I expect to take the leap forward

[CadaverDawg]

It just depends on how Hudson and the others do. To start with, I suspect it will be Fitts on Friday, Ross on Sat., and Hudson on Sun. most likely. But, if Hudson or someone else does really well Cohen won't have a problem moving him up to the Saturday or even Friday spot I don't think.

How is Hudson doing in summer ball so far?

[CadaverDawg]

Speaking of pitchers... Are we expecting our TJ guys back next season? Did Preston have any surgery? Preston is the guy I expect to take the leap forward

I don't think Preston will ever be more than a midweek guy for us. He had a nice few weeks last season, but I'm not a believer. I have more hope that Paul Young will be a weekend guy than Brown, and I've never seen Young pitch, ha.

[msstate7]

I don't think Preston will ever be more than a midweek guy for us. He had a nice few weeks last season, but I'm not a believer. I have more hope that Paul Young will be a weekend guy than Brown, and I've never seen Young pitch, ha.

I disagree. Preston is a ground ball pitcher and infield defense should be one of biggest strengths next season assuming holland is the stud he's supposed to be at ss.

[engie]

I disagree. Preston is a ground ball pitcher and infield defense should be one of biggest strengths next season assuming holland is the stud he's supposed to be at ss.

Preston = Graveman. When he's healthy...

[Pioneer Dawg]

Platooning = benching?

If you want to troll, there's a place called sixpackspeak. Otherwise, let the grown ups talk about sports.

Don't let being wrong on bunting and covering up past statements on Garner threaten you "status" as the spoken word on all things MSU baseball. You're very good at keeping up with recruiting.

[engie]

Don't let being wrong on bunting and covering up past statements on Garner threaten you "status" as the spoken word on all things MSU baseball. You're very good at keeping up with recruiting.

Every time you resort to this, it's basically seen as an admission of defeat on the topic at hand to everyone else.

"Trolling" = Consistently asking for things you know will never happen -- and then pretending that you are a better baseball mind than our coaching staff.

[RougeDawg]

Pirtle was a senior.

That explains the low draft status. My bad. Only playing two years messed me up. I don't look at roster to know what yr guys are or there they're from. I just know who plays and who the ones are who should be playing. And when I looked up Pirtles draft stock, it doesn't say anything about him signing any contract. With only playing two yrs, I figured 700th was too low to sign and he had another year. My bad for not having enough free time to analyze and removed our roster.

[engie]

That explains the low draft status. My bad. Only playing two years messed me up. I don't look at roster to know what yr guys are or there they're from. I just know who plays and who the ones are who should be playing. And when I looked up Pirtles draft stock, it doesn't say anything about him signing any contract. With only playing two yrs, I figured 700th was too low to sign and he had another year. My bad for not having enough free time to analyze and removed our roster.

You don't have enough free time to know Pirtle is gone -- but do have enough free time to know you are a better offensive mind than anyone we have on staff at MSU? Interesting...

[Todd4State]

Don't let being wrong on bunting and covering up past statements on Garner threaten you "status" as the spoken word on all things MSU baseball. You're very good at keeping up with recruiting.

Wrong on bunting? I have it bookmarked.

http://www.billjamesonline.com/bunting_for_a_hit/

That's all I'll say on that.

And covering up for Garner? There was nothing to cover up. I said he would be a candidate for first base and he was indeed moved to first base by our staff. Once he was moved there, he failed to perform at a satisfactory level in the field and at the plate and was passed by Rooker, Ingram, and once Cole Gordon came to campus he would have been passed by him as well and then he and the staff decided to part separate ways. I can't fix comprehension issues on your part. If I was a moderator, I would certainly have fixed trolling issues on your part, but ironically I don't have enough "status". Which is fine by the way- I'm not advocating for a moderator role.

Every single one of my team outlook posts includes basically every player on the roster at the time of that post. I don't "predict" who is leaving via transfer or who will transfer in either because I don't think it's productive to do because it starts rumors that may/may not be true and it has the potential to start problems. It's also very unfair to do that to a player IMO, so I avoid doing so until an announcement is officially made. I care more about MSU baseball than I do about any "status" that I may or may not have. The rumors about Garner transferring were known by me for a while and others as well as Hann for that matter. I certainly could have chosen to put those rumors into those posts, but I chose not to because I thought it would have been extremely classless on my part. If another poster asks about a rumor or brings it up, I do address it- but I try not to bring up rumors like that on my own.

I'm glad you enjoyed the recruiting post. Read more often, post less.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Every time you resort to this, it's basically seen as an admission of defeat on the topic at hand to everyone else.

"Trolling" = Consistently asking for things you know will never happen -- and then pretending that you are a better baseball mind than our coaching staff.

Fitts not being a weekend starter is "something I KNOW will never happen"?

Uh ok

[State82]

In the ideal situation, with the younger guys progressing as we hope, a Fitts/Lindgren combo would be replaced with a Fitts/Mitchell piggyback. But we probably won't get lucky enough to allow Ross back in the pen. We can hope, though.

[CadaverDawg]

In the ideal situation, with the younger guys progressing as we hope, a Fitts/Lindgren combo would be replaced with a Fitts/Mitchell piggyback. But we probably won't get lucky enough to allow Ross back in the pen. We can hope, though.

We SHOULD. If Tatum or Sexton are going to start for us, we need to get it going sooner than later. It's as simple as Butch and Cohen saying Ross is moving to the pen and sticking with it, thus forcing someone to step up. Ross can throw long innings of relief, so even if one of those guys can do like Fitts and get through the order a time or 2, we will have Ross to mop up. That's why I wish Ross, Fitts, AND Laster would go to the pen as piggy backs on the 3 youngsters as starters at the beginning of the year. It will give them great experience, needed starts, and also the comfort in having veterans behind them with long inning experience in case we struggle early in games. Just a thought, but I feel like something has got to be done to break this cycle of piggy backs and us develop some true starters for down the road. This would be the "safe" way to develop them IMO. It will never happen, but I like to think it would be a great idea.

[Todd4State]

We SHOULD. If Tatum or Sexton are going to start for us, we need to get it going sooner than later. It's as simple as Butch and Cohen saying Ross is moving to the pen and sticking with it, thus forcing someone to step up. Ross can throw long innings of relief, so even if one of those guys can do like Fitts and get through the order a time or 2, we will have Ross to mop up. That's why I wish Ross, Fitts, AND Laster would go to the pen as piggy backs on the 3 youngsters as starters at the beginning of the year. It will give them great experience, needed starts, and also the comfort in having veterans behind them with long inning experience in case we struggle early in games. Just a thought, but I feel like something has got to be done to break this cycle of piggy backs and us develop some true starters for down the road. This would be the "safe" way to develop them IMO. It will never happen, but I like to think it would be a great idea.

For me, I think it should be Fitts/Laster, Hudson and Tatum with Ross backing up Hudson and Myles Gentry backing up Tatum. I like Ross in the bullpen personally, but I think the staff likes Ross as a starter.

With my groups, you really wouldn't have to have Hudson and Tatum go more than 4-5, which should take some pressure off of them. I like the idea of going from Hudson's 95 to Ross's 82, and then with Tatum and Gentry, by starting Tatum the other team is going to probably try to load up on RH hitters, which is a good match-up for him.

I think Cohen and Butch's philosophy on the piggy backing is pretty much if you are Chris Stratton dominant, we'll let you go deep- or even Kendall Graveman or Ross Mitchell, but if not we're not going to ask a guy to do something that isn't as advantageous to us. One thing I have heard Cohen say is that they feel that the batting order has a big advantage the third time through.

[Todd4State]

Speaking of pitchers... Are we expecting our TJ guys back next season? Did Preston have any surgery? Preston is the guy I expect to take the leap forward

Last thing I heard was Paul Young and John Marc Shelly were ahead of schedule and Will Cox was on schedule. Preston didn't have surgery, but using my medical opinion, he probably should. The rumor is he was told to get surgery and he decided that he didn't want to do it. That's why I'm not expecting much from him next year, even though he's a good pitcher.

[Todd4State]

How is Hudson doing in summer ball so far?

He's doing well. The best of the group of sophomores next year.

He is 1-2 with 18K's in 14 IP and 6 BB's, and his ERA is 3.21, but the game before that, his ERA was 1.80.

[engie]

Personally, if given the choice between the two, I start Laster and put Ross back in the pen. To me, Ross's ultimate value was/is getting us out of the big inning 2-3 times per weekend. Although he gave us a bunch of quality starts, we lost that to an extent without him. Lindgren was great most of the time -- but never had the consistency of Ross and would quite often fail to stop the bleeding in the big inning before settling in. I think Laster can eat up Ross's starter innings allowing him back into what I see as his better role.

Time one of the young 3 stepped up. I think Tatum will -- yet to be seen on the other 2.

[Pioneer Dawg]

To me, Ross's ultimate value was/is getting us out of the big inning 2-3 times per weekend.

Thats just incorrect. Ross was good at logging innings in relief but it was a proven statistical fact that he allowed a higher percentage of inherited runners to score than his peers last year. He was not as valuable in getting us out of jams. This is due to low K numbers.


Lindgren was great most of the time -- but never had the consistency of Ross and would quite often fail to stop the bleeding in the big inning before settling in.

Ehhhh I think you are exactly backwards here. Lindgren would often get those K's and limit damage where Ross would allow the run to score.



Well, he actually has a very valid point there. More than 50% of the time- Mitchell allowed inherited runners to score. For a reliever, that's not good. It doesnt make a mother-**** what his ERA is. You bring relievers in to shut the door- not just give up inherited runs.


These numbers are just for innings where they have entered, not innings they have started.

Ross. 14 appearances. Average # of outs when entering: 0.93. Inherited runners: 29. Inherited runners scored:13. Inherited % score. 45%

Girodo. 12 appearances. Average # of outs when entering: 0.75. Inherited runners: 17. Inherited runners scored: 5. Inherited % score: 29%

Holder. 11 appearances. Average # of outs when entering: 0.55. Inherited runners: 16. Inherited runners scored: 2. Inherited % score: 13%.

Like Coach says, it doesn't make a mother **** what any relief pitcher's ERA is. That's not their job.



There you go. You were correct that Ross Mitchell is not the best option out of the pen with runners on base.

[Coach34]

Mitchell is an outstanding guy to start or bring out of the pen- but not a good "get out of jams" guy. His strength as a RP was coming in the game in say the 4th inning- and then finishing it for us and saving the pen.

[engie]

Your data set is hugely incomplete and inconclusive. I'll fix it when I get back to my laptop.

While Mitchell was less likely to get k's, he was more likely to get gdps. You also fail to account for the location of the runners inherited, which is every bit as important as the number of outs inherited.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Mitchell is an outstanding guy to start or bring out of the pen- but not a good "get out of jams" guy. His strength as a RP was coming in the game in say the 4th inning- and then finishing it for us and saving the pen.

Bingo

[Pioneer Dawg]

Your data set is hugely incomplete and inconclusive. I'll fix it when I get back to my laptop.

While Mitchell was less likely to get k's, he was more likely to get gdps. You also fail to account for the location of the runners inherited, which is every bit as important as the number of outs inherited.

That was quoted from last year. Please don't sell that Ross is better getting out of jams than Lindgren. It's silly. If you want to try to so a WPA analysis be my guest. It's common sense that myself and Coach are right on this.

[RAYn_Man]

Preston didn't have surgery, but using my medical opinion, he probably should. The rumor is he was told to get surgery and he decided that he didn't want to do it. That's why I'm not expecting much from him next year, even though he's a good pitcher.

That's not what I heard

[RougeDawg]

Yes you ****ing moron. It's difficult to forget something you learned and actually did many years ago. Knowing something for years has no impact on my time priorities now. That's like me calling you out for telling people how to ride bikes, even though you haven't had one for years. Just because you don't read about it or perform it currently doesn't mean you don't know how it's supposed to be done properly.

My bad for being an engineering manager, responsible for a large sum of market share and people working under me. I know proper mechanics, approach, and how to call pitches. Just because you and others can't, doesn't mean it can't be done. Maybe it is really rare, because our players don't know how to do it and coaches don't teach it. What exactly have I said incorrect about our hitting? Why do other teams have players with proper swings and approache? Why are those other players with proper mechanics and swings, more productive at the plate than we are? Tell me where I've been incorrect. Until then, you can go f*ck yourself.

[Goat Holder]

One small thing.....

He's GOOD as a starter, but OUTSTANDING only out of the pen. IMO. Stats bear that out. He often had some rocky 1st/2nd innings as a starter.

[Goat Holder]

My bad for being an engineering manager, responsible for a large sum of market share and people working under me.

Yeeeeeah, this probably is not true.

[RougeDawg]

Yeeeeeah, this probably is not true.

Yea, well joke's on you bud. Nice try though.

[engie]

Yes you ****ing moron. It's difficult to forget something you learned and actually did many years ago. Knowing something for years has no impact on my time priorities now. That's like me calling you out for telling people how to ride bikes, even though you haven't had one for years. Just because you don't read about it or perform it currently doesn't mean you don't know how it's supposed to be done properly.

My bad for being an engineering manager, responsible for a large sum of market share and people working under me. I know proper mechanics, approach, and how to call pitches. Just because you and others can't, doesn't mean it can't be done. Maybe it is really rare, because our players don't know how to do it and coaches don't teach it. What exactly have I said incorrect about our hitting? Why do other teams have players with proper swings and approache? Why are those other players with proper mechanics and swings, more productive at the plate than we are? Tell me where I've been incorrect. Until then, you can go f*ck yourself.

Basically everything you've said is incorrect about our hitting to the point of absurdity. We were a top 20 hitting team in the country last year -- yet you think you are better at it than our coaches -- while preaching a homerun approach for singles hitters. For an "Engineering Manager" -- you sure don't know how to apply engineering principles to your opinion. Nor do you have the common sense to realize that you aren't a better hitting coach or pitching coach that what we currently have at MSU. That puts you in an exclusive class of idiot.