so whose the all time Sultan of Swat? kinda dead so I thought I'd bring up a topic

[Bully13]

Uh GAIN...

has anyone every dominated his peers in the HR category more than Babe Ruth?

take a gander:

1919 he hit 29 and # 2 hit 12
1920 he hit 54 and # 2 hit 19
1921 he hit 59 and # 2 hit 24
1922 he hit 35 and # 2 hit 42...Hornsby had 623 AB'S and Ruth had 406 (musta been injury)
1923 he hit 41 and Williams hit 41 .. #2 had 29...Ruth batted less than both but nothing notable like '22, gotta hand it to Williams helluva hitter
1924 he hit 46 and # 2 hit 27
1925 he hit 25 and # 2 hit 39..Ruth had 359 AB'S vs #2's who had 504
1926 he hit 47 and # 2 hit 21
1927 he hit 60 and #2 (Gehrig) hit 47...# 3 was either in the high 20's or low 30's (need to re-check that but I'm prolly right)
1928 he hit 54 and #2 hit 31
1929 he hit 46 and # 2 hit 43 while #2 had 616 AB'S vs Ruth's of 499

has there ever been a more dominate 11 year stretch of home run dominance in Major Baseball History?

[starkvegasdawg]

And keep in mind he did most of it hungover or still drunk. Makes me sick to think Bonds had his name above Ruth and Aaron.

[msstate7]

And keep in mind he did most of it hungover or still drunk. Makes me sick to think Bonds had his name above Ruth and Aaron.

Alcohol = PED of the 20s*

[Political Hack]

Big Mac

[Dawg61]

You can't compare baseball in 1919 to baseball in 2001, how many pitchers in 1919 threw 95 mph gas? Starkvegasdawg why does it make you sick? When did Bonds fail a steroid test? You know he had to pass about 500 of them which he did every single time. Bonds is the greatest homerun hitter of all-time. What should make you sick is the baseball fraternity not putting Barry Bonds in the Hall of Fame. When did being an asshole become reason for not being put into the HOF? So it's a popularity contest now?

[Pioneer Dawg]

Bonds 2001-2004 is the most dominant any hitter has ever been compared to his peers

[Pioneer Dawg]

Ruth, Bonds, and Ted Williams are at the top of the all-time list for me.

Hornsby and Gehrig are right below those

Williams was the league's best hitter in his last season at age 42. Ted lost 3 of his prime years to WWII.

[starkvegasdawg]

You can't compare baseball in 1919 to baseball in 2001, how many pitchers in 1919 threw 95 mph gas? Starkvegasdawg why does it make you sick? When did Bonds fail a steroid test? You know he had to pass about 500 of them which he did every single time. Bonds is the greatest homerun hitter of all-time. What should make you sick is the baseball fraternity not putting Barry Bonds in the Hall of Fame. When did being an asshole become reason for not being put into the HOF? So it's a popularity contest now?

All you've got to do is look at Bonds from his Pirates days to his Giants days to see how much he physically changed. When he tried to throw Sid Bream out at home in the NLCS he was not much more than a glorified beanpole. When his career ended with the giants he was bulked up beyond belief. It was called the age of steroids for a reason. McGwire never failed a test either but pretty common knowledge he was taking everything he could get his hands on. He just found something not banned at the time. They don't ban you from the hall for just being an asshole. They do ban you for being a cheating asshole, though.

[Dawg61]

All you've got to do is look at Bonds from his Pirates days to his Giants days to see how much he physically changed. When he tried to throw Sid Bream out at home in the NLCS he was not much more than a glorified beanpole. When his career ended with the giants he was bulked up beyond belief. It was called the age of steroids for a reason. McGwire never failed a test either but pretty common knowledge he was taking everything he could get his hands on. He just found something not banned at the time. They don't ban you from the hall for just being an asshole. They do ban you for being a cheating asshole, though.

The burden of proof is on baseball not Barry Bonds. He proved it time and time again when they made him take a piss test 500 different times. He passed every time. You can't convict people because of the eye test. Doesn't work like that. Same thing in a murder trial or any criminal trial. The burden of proof is on the prosecution not the defendant. Innocent till PROVEN guilty. Sorry you don't like him. You aren't alone in your feelings for the man.

[Quaoarsking]

There's really no point in comparing players across ages. MLB shouldn't even keep records for career home runs and similar records because Bonds, Aaron, Mays, and Ruth just aren't comparable like that. Maybe you could devise a formula that something like "average ranking in home runs for each season over the course of the career," weighted by age, injury, and park factors somehow, but I don't care that Bonds has the record because the record just doesn't matter.

[starkvegasdawg]

The burden of proof is on baseball not Barry Bonds. He proved it time and time again when they made him take a piss test 500 different times. He passed every time. You can't convict people because of the eye test. Doesn't work like that. Same thing in a murder trial or any criminal trial. The burden of proof is on the prosecution not the defendant. Innocent till PROVEN guilty. Sorry you don't like him. You aren't alone in your feelings for the man.

I honestly never had anything against him until I became convinced he was juiced up. Roids or not I will admit he was one of the most feared hitters in the game during his prime. Anytime you get a based loaded intentional walk is proof you had pitchers wetting their pants. As for your earlier comment on pitchers throwing 95mph gas there is no way to know. I do know pitchers back then threw spit balls and everything else illegal unless your name is weathersby and you pitch for tsun. I bet there were more pitchers that threw in the 90's back then than we might think. You don't need to be a big person to be able to do that. It's all leverage.

[Pioneer Dawg]

There's really no point in comparing players across ages. MLB shouldn't even keep records for career home runs and similar records because Bonds, Aaron, Mays, and Ruth just aren't comparable like that. Maybe you could devise a formula that something like "average ranking in home runs for each season over the course of the career," weighted by age, injury, and park factors somehow, but I don't care that Bonds has the record because the record just doesn't matter.

It's called weighted runs created plus

wRC+

Compares players to their own time period

[Dawg61]

I honestly never had anything against him until I became convinced he was juiced up. Roids or not I will admit he was one of the most feared hitters in the game during his prime. Anytime you get a based loaded intentional walk is proof you had pitchers wetting their pants. As for your earlier comment on pitchers throwing 95mph gas there is no way to know. I do know pitchers back then threw spit balls and everything else illegal unless your name is weathersby and you pitch for tsun. I bet there were more pitchers that threw in the 90's back then than we might think. You don't need to be a big person to be able to do that. It's all leverage.

Ruth is a top 3 player of all-time imo. Like Quaoarsking said though we really can't compare ages so far apart. None of us saw Ruth play and unfortunately television wasn't recorded like it is now so we can't go back and watch it. (thread idea, check and post in a sec). We also don't know what shady stuff was going on in baseball at that time. Is it possible that Babe Ruth was the greatest ticket back then and the Yankees paid pitchers to throw him 80 mph strikes to sell excitement to the fans? I wouldn't put it past an era that had the Black Sox cheating in a World Series and intentionally losing. We just don't know. I'm not going to convict Ruth of cheating without proof though.

[Political Hack]

http://m.bbref.com/m?p=XXleadersXXat_bats_per_home_run_career.shtml

[BulldogDX55]

I'd say it is definitely Jarvis Varnado.

[Noxdog]

It's definitely June!



Uh GAIN...

has anyone every dominated his peers in the HR category more than Babe Ruth?

take a gander:

1919 he hit 29 and # 2 hit 12
1920 he hit 54 and # 2 hit 19
1921 he hit 59 and # 2 hit 24
1922 he hit 35 and # 2 hit 42...Hornsby had 623 AB'S and Ruth had 406 (musta been injury)
1923 he hit 41 and Williams hit 41 .. #2 had 29...Ruth batted less than both but nothing notable like '22, gotta hand it to Williams helluva hitter
1924 he hit 46 and # 2 hit 27
1925 he hit 25 and # 2 hit 39..Ruth had 359 AB'S vs #2's who had 504
1926 he hit 47 and # 2 hit 21
1927 he hit 60 and #2 (Gehrig) hit 47...# 3 was either in the high 20's or low 30's (need to re-check that but I'm prolly right)
1928 he hit 54 and #2 hit 31
1929 he hit 46 and # 2 hit 43 while #2 had 616 AB'S vs Ruth's of 499

has there ever been a more dominate 11 year stretch of home run dominance in Major Baseball History?

[Todd4State]

In 1922, Ruth was suspended by MLB for barnstorming, which was common in those days. He would go around the country and play exhibition games with a team that a group would put together and basically he would hit home runs off of local townspeople and semi-pro teams, and basically do home run derbys. The reason he was suspended at that time was becuase he was barnstorming around the time of the World Series was which against MLB rules.

In 1925, that was the Bellyache heard 'round the world. Ruth was hospitalized for what is suspected to be alcohol abuse, although it has never been confirmed to this day. He went to Hot Springs, Arkansas in the offseason, partied, became very ill and didn't really recover until 1926.

I do agree with you that Ruth was the most dominant player in MLB history. You can't really compare him to Bonds, Ted Williams, or even Ty Cobb because with baseball you have to compare players relative to the era that they played in. What Ruth did- as you have pointed out, would be like someone today doubling the home run total of the second place guy. So, let's say the "normal" home run leader hits 50- that would be like Ruth hitting 100 in a season.

You also have to take into ac**** that the rules were different in those days- I believe one was if you hit the foul pole in the 20's, it was considered foul, wheras now it's a home run. The ballparks were bigger in those days as well in general.

But Babe Ruth no doubt changed the game for the better by bringing in the home run and attention to the home run and also in doing so, he was the first true tape measure home run hitter. He not only hit a lot- he hit them further than anyone else at that time as well.

He was an All-Star caliber pitcher as well. If he had played today and I was the manager, I would make him DH and then come in to close the game. You're talking about a guy that probably could have been a legit dual position guy at the MLB level- and really his best position in the field was pitcher.

[Todd4State]

Looks like I misspelled the word account. LOL.

[Todd4State]

All you've got to do is look at Bonds from his Pirates days to his Giants days to see how much he physically changed. When he tried to throw Sid Bream out at home in the NLCS he was not much more than a glorified beanpole. When his career ended with the giants he was bulked up beyond belief. It was called the age of steroids for a reason. McGwire never failed a test either but pretty common knowledge he was taking everything he could get his hands on. He just found something not banned at the time. They don't ban you from the hall for just being an asshole. They do ban you for being a cheating asshole, though.

Urban legend is Andy Van Slyke claims that he told Bonds to move over a little bit and Bonds flipped him off. Then Francisco Cabrera got his hit and Sid Bream chugged around to score.

That's a low percentage throw for any outfielder though- I think it's pretty unfair to criticize an OF for not throwing a guy out at home plate in that situation.

And for the record, McGwire, Bonds, etc. are NOT officially banned from the HOF. That's all about the writers getting on their high horse more than anything.

[Todd4State]

Ruth is a top 3 player of all-time imo. Like Quaoarsking said though we really can't compare ages so far apart. None of us saw Ruth play and unfortunately television wasn't recorded like it is now so we can't go back and watch it. (thread idea, check and post in a sec). We also don't know what shady stuff was going on in baseball at that time. Is it possible that Babe Ruth was the greatest ticket back then and the Yankees paid pitchers to throw him 80 mph strikes to sell excitement to the fans? I wouldn't put it past an era that had the Black Sox cheating in a World Series and intentionally losing. We just don't know. I'm not going to convict Ruth of cheating without proof though.

Ruth probably didn't make enough to bribe pitchers to do that. There has always been shady stuff in baseball- but it's just in different forms. If steroids were around when Ruth played, I'm 100% sure he would have used them. All these ex-players that criticize players for using steroids- a lot of them were using amphetamines so that they would have more energy and therefore perform better. Steroids may very well enhance performance more than greenies, but it's not like the guys in the 70's were all natural either.

Now back then, gambling and throwing games was a concern at the time. See the Black Sox scandal. I think Kennessaw Mountain Landis striaghted that out pretty well though.

No doubt Ruth used alcohol, but I am also of the personal belief based on research that Ruth more than likely abused things such as cocaine and other drugs as well at least at times. The guy was a party animal.

[Todd4State]

Big Mac

McGwire is probably about as close as a player can get to Ruth in terms of hitting home runs in quantity and for distance with charisma, although no doubt Ruth was a superior player of the two.

[Martianlander]

Ruth, Bonds, and Ted Williams are at the top of the all-time list for me.

Hornsby and Gehrig are right below those

Williams was the league's best hitter in his last season at age 42. Ted lost 3 of his prime years to WWII.
Yes and he also lost part of the 1952 and 1953 season to the Korean war.

[JDog13]

I'd say it is definitely Jarvis Varnado.

The title of the thread had me thinking the same thing.

I guess you can say the pitchers in current times are throwing harder than they were in the 20's and 30's. I am fairly certain that the player's in the 20's and 30's did not have the weight rooms and specialized training as the players do now. The bats Ruth was swinging were miniature telephone poles. They were huge and heavy. That makes it more impressive to me.

[Todd4State]

The title of the thread had me thinking the same thing.

I guess you can say the pitchers in current times are throwing harder than they were in the 20's and 30's. I am fairly certain that the player's in the 20's and 30's did not have the weight rooms and specialized training as the players do now. The bats Ruth was swinging were miniature telephone poles. They were huge and heavy. That makes it more impressive to me.

For a long time, the thought was that if you worked out, you be more susceptible to muscle pulls and strains.

Things change and players have certain advantges and disadvantages in each era.

[hacker]

The burden of proof is on baseball not Barry Bonds. He proved it time and time again when they made him take a piss test 500 different times. He passed every time. You can't convict people because of the eye test. Doesn't work like that. Same thing in a murder trial or any criminal trial. The burden of proof is on the prosecution not the defendant. Innocent till PROVEN guilty. Sorry you don't like him. You aren't alone in your feelings for the man.

wut

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3271173

[Dawg61]

wut

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3271173

Did you actually read what you just linked Sherlock? Pretty vague details there that didn't get pursued it looks like.

[hacker]

Did you actually read what you just linked Sherlock? Pretty vague details there that didn't get pursued it looks like.

Did you?


Among other information contained in the unsealed 149-page court transcript is evidence of an additional positive steroids test beyond the previously reported one in November 2000

[Dawg61]

Great so what other details do you have of that besides four words? Could of been two tests done in the same week. Who knows? That is too vague and it wasn't pursued so that should tell you something.

[hacker]

You serious? The fact that there was a positive steroids test to begin with kinda throws a wrench in your "has never tested positive for steroids." Much less a second positive steroids test.

[Dawg61]

You serious? The fact that there was a positive steroids test to begin with kinda throws a wrench in your "has never tested positive for steroids." Much less a second positive steroids test.

No Bonds admitted a long time ago that he was given a clear lotion that he had no clue had HGH in it. The guy that gave it to him never told him and he admitted that. That's what that test is and this second test has no details to it and wasn't pursued by baseball so basically it sounds to me like it is the same instance flagged twice. Again there's zero details given about it and baseball deemed it not worthy to look further into so there's your answer counselor.

[hacker]

he still failed a test, or two, smarty. regardless of what he says his intent was.

[hacker]

As suspicions of steroid usage gained in volume and as federal investigators doggedly stayed on the case, the defense from his camp never wavered. Barry Bonds never flunked a drug test, they argued.

That argument is no longer valid, or so says the government in a 10-page indictment lodged Thursday against the 43-year-old Bonds. In making a case that Bonds perjured himself when he told a grand jury that he did not knowingly use performance-enhancing drugs, federal attorneys allege in the indictment that they have evidence he has tested positive.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3112982

[Dawg61]

As suspicions of steroid usage gained in volume and as federal investigators doggedly stayed on the case, the defense from his camp never wavered. Barry Bonds never flunked a drug test, they argued.

That argument is no longer valid, or so says the government in a 10-page indictment lodged Thursday against the 43-year-old Bonds. In making a case that Bonds perjured himself when he told a grand jury that he did not knowingly use performance-enhancing drugs, federal attorneys allege in the indictment that they have evidence he has tested positive.

What do you expect the people taking Barry Bonds to court to say? They are trying to convict him. That's their job in this case and they weren't able to prove jack shit.

"There is a serious issue regarding a lack of chain of custody," Conte said. "No test result has anybody's name or initials. All steroid test results performed at BALCO were a number only. Now there were different ledgers with initials and different things that are certainly subject to challenge, but there is no type of steroid panel test result with the name Barry Bonds
on it."

Few parts from the ESPN article after Bonds was convicted of one count of obstruction because he didn't answer a question Yes or No.


Just like the whole Steroid Era: We'll never really know.

Even the one charge that left Barry Bonds a convicted felon didn't specify steroids. Instead, a federal court jury found the home run king guilty of obstruction of justice Wednesday for giving an evasive answer under oath more than seven years ago. Rather than say "yes" or "no" to whether he received drugs that required a syringe, Bonds gave a rambling response to a grand jury, stating: "I became a celebrity child with a famous father."


Bonds leaned forward, looked at the clerk, but never reacted when the verdict was read. His mother, Pat, watched from a second-row bench.

"Divided, not unanimous," on count one.

"Divided, not unanimous," on count two.

"Divided, not unanimous," on count three.

And then, just when it appeared Bonds would escape unscathed, came the final word from the jury:

"Guilty," on obstruction of justice.

A 60-year-old juror, who identified himself only as Steve, thought the defense successfully impeached key prosecution witnesses Steve and Kathy Hoskins and Kimberly Bell during cross-examination.

"They tried to discredit the witnesses. They tried to make the prosecutors look like bad guys. Were they successful in doing that? Yes," he said.

He also said the government was hurt by Bonds' physician, Dr. Arthur Ting, who refuted many of Steve Hoskins' allegations.

"I think the prosecutors got a big bomb thrown in their lap," Steve said.

Jacob said the absence of Anderson -- who was imprisoned during the trial on a contempt citation for refusing to testify -- hindered the government's ability to prove Bonds lied about steroids.

"We couldn't connect the dots between steroids, Greg and Barry," he said.

On the HGH count, he said: "There just wasn't any evidence. HGH is very hard to detect and there wasn't any scientific evidence. Everything was circumstantial."


Hacker there was millions of dollars spent on damn good lawyers for this case and the only thing they could convict Bonds of was not replying yes or no to a question that happened over 7 YEARS PRIOR to the trial. They never proved Bonds knowingly took steroids. They never proved that Bonds lied about knowing either. They spent years on this case and Bonds repeatedly denied taking steroids and at the end of the day they didn't prove jack shit. They sure tried and they failed.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6347014

[smootness]

No Bonds admitted a long time ago that he was given a clear lotion that he had no clue had HGH in it. The guy that gave it to him never told him and he admitted that. That's what that test is and this second test has no details to it and wasn't pursued by baseball so basically it sounds to me like it is the same instance flagged twice. Again there's zero details given about it and baseball deemed it not worthy to look further into so there's your answer counselor.

Please don't be this naive.

You're acting like an 8-year-old fanboy. Of course Bonds juiced, it's absurd to claim otherwise.

[hacker]

Hacker there was millions of dollars spent on damn good lawyers for this case and the only thing they could convict Bonds of was not replying yes or no to a question that happened over 7 YEARS PRIOR to the trial.

OJ also didn't kill Nicole and Ronnie, then, I guess.

[Dawg61]

Of course Bonds juiced, it's absurd to claim otherwise.

No it's absurd to continually say he did when FEDERAL COURT already failed to PROVE it. Millions of dollars were spent, years of investigation was done and a trial already took place and they could not prove anything other than him obstructing on a yes or no question that took place 7 years prior. Do you always disagree with our Federal Justice system rulings or only when it is convenient for you? Fact is that it doesn't matter what Barry Bonds does he's already convicted in the court of public opinion (yours and Hacks and many others) even when the Federal Justice system fails to prove it. Gotta trust in the good old USA Federal Justice system Smoot.

[smootness]

I don't care what any court system has said or couldn't prove. I know that Barry Bonds juiced because I'm not an idiot.

[Dawg61]

I don't care what any court system has said or couldn't prove. I know that Barry Bonds juiced because I'm not an idiot.

You aren't alone in your opinion. Nobody is trying to change it. My issue with the Barry Bonds situation isn't about changing people's opinions about the man. It's about him not being inducted into the Hall of Fame. Baseball is traveling down a very slippery slope when it is not including no doubt 1st ballot Hall of Fame baseball players because they are unwavering in their opinion that that player took steroids. Prove it. It's not fair to the man to not include him into the HOF without proving he took steroids. Period. You are comfortable with not including Bonds because you dislike the man. But what if next year allegations come out that Mariano Rivera or Derek Jeter took steroids? You'd include them into the HOF if the courts were unable to prove they did so why not Bonds? You just can't convict a man for life for a crime he was acquitted of. You're setting a bad standard when you do that even one time.

In my opinion the only way that baseball can fix all of this is to just allow everyone in the steroid era that has HOF credentials into the HOF and include the history of this era. The HOF is basically a museum for future fans of baseball to look back and appreciate the players of that era. We just now are exiting the steroid era. People a hundred years from now should be able to go back and read about all of this. Walk through the HOF and see Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Bonds, ARod etc and what they accomplished during this era. And the biggest injustice in all of this is that baseball itself encouraged the steroid era to go on. They needed the homerun to bring back the fans. They turned a blind eye to it to get the fans back and then when people started asking questions they became appalled at the idea that players could take steroids. Bullfu*king shit! Bud Selig and his boys encouraged it.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Baseball's problem is that the writers are severely back logging the HOF

[Coach34]

You serious? The fact that there was a positive steroids test to begin with kinda throws a wrench in your "has never tested positive for steroids." Much less a second positive steroids test.

Barry Bonds tested positive for steroids many times.

The problem? Steroids werent illegal in baseball during that time

[Bully13]

You can't compare baseball in 1919 to baseball in 2001, how many pitchers in 1919 threw 95 mph gas? Starkvegasdawg why does it make you sick? When did Bonds fail a steroid test? You know he had to pass about 500 of them which he did every single time. Bonds is the greatest homerun hitter of all-time. What should make you sick is the baseball fraternity not putting Barry Bonds in the Hall of Fame. When did being an asshole become reason for not being put into the HOF? So it's a popularity contest now?

I'm talking about dominating your peers. not taking away anything from Bonds. I've never seen such power from someone's wrists and forearms as Bonds. loved to watch him hit. I'm just talking about competing against all the other players in the era of what era that player played in.

[drunkernhelldawg]

All you've got to do is look at Bonds from his Pirates days to his Giants days to see how much he physically changed. When he tried to throw Sid Bream out at home in the NLCS he was not much more than a glorified beanpole. When his career ended with the giants he was bulked up beyond belief. It was called the age of steroids for a reason. McGwire never failed a test either but pretty common knowledge he was taking everything he could get his hands on. He just found something not banned at the time. They don't ban you from the hall for just being an asshole. They do ban you for being a cheating asshole, though.

That's bullshit. It's not at all unusual for a person's body type change surprisingly over time. Sometimes one year makes a huge difference. I saw a girl a month or so ago who almost doubled her size in two years since she left high school. This is common knowledge, so I don't feel a need to elaborate. However, I have heard this statement again and again regarding Bonds. Don't know about the hall, but I do know that Bonds is one of the greatest all time hitters in baseball.

[drunkernhelldawg]

Ruth probably didn't make enough to bribe pitchers to do that. There has always been shady stuff in baseball- but it's just in different forms. If steroids were around when Ruth played, I'm 100% sure he would have used them. All these ex-players that criticize players for using steroids- a lot of them were using amphetamines so that they would have more energy and therefore perform better. Steroids may very well enhance performance more than greenies, but it's not like the guys in the 70's were all natural either.

Now back then, gambling and throwing games was a concern at the time. See the Black Sox scandal. I think Kennessaw Mountain Landis striaghted that out pretty well though.

No doubt Ruth used alcohol, but I am also of the personal belief based on research that Ruth more than likely abused things such as cocaine and other drugs as well at least at times. The guy was a party animal.

Cocaine would be a PED, for sure. But you ain't takin' the Babe out the Hall of Fame. Say it ain't so.

[hacker]

Barry Bonds tested positive for steroids many times.

The problem? Steroids werent illegal in baseball during that time

That's fine, I'm not arguing that. Dawg61 saying he never tested positive and is just ignoring facts.

[War Machine Dawg]

That's bullshit. It's not at all unusual for a person's body type change surprisingly over time. Sometimes one year makes a huge difference. I saw a girl a month or so ago who almost doubled her size in two years since she left high school. This is common knowledge, so I don't feel a need to elaborate. However, I have heard this statement again and again regarding Bonds. Don't know about the hall, but I do know that Bonds is one of the greatest all time hitters in baseball.

Yeah, people should really do a year-by-year look of pictures at Bonds throughout his career. He bulked up over the course of several years. He didn't go from the bean pole he was in Pittsburgh to the huge dude he was circe 2001 overnight. He did it gradually. If he'd shown up to camp all of a sudden dramatically bigger, that'd be a red flag for me. But that isn't what happened.

[Dawg61]

That's fine, I'm not arguing that. Dawg61 saying he never tested positive and is just ignoring facts.

Bonds has been tested 22 times for steroids and was clean in all 22 times. The flaxseed oil that he supposedly took was when there were no rules or regulations on performance enhancing drugs. Once MLB put their steroid policy and testing in place he never tested positive.

[Bullmutt]

If you want to do a half-way valid comparison of homerun prowess, look at number of homeruns per inning played.

[Tbonewannabe]

The burden of proof is on baseball not Barry Bonds. He proved it time and time again when they made him take a piss test 500 different times. He passed every time. You can't convict people because of the eye test. Doesn't work like that. Same thing in a murder trial or any criminal trial. The burden of proof is on the prosecution not the defendant. Innocent till PROVEN guilty. Sorry you don't like him. You aren't alone in your feelings for the man.

Except Lance Armstrong just admitted to using steroids. It doesn't take a genius to figure out Barry Bonds had pretty much every single side affect of using steroids. The guy used and so did Mark McGuire.

[Bully13]

If you want to do a half-way valid comparison of homerun prowess, look at number of homeruns per inning played.

which is not a bad statistic to observe. I think comparing what that player did in comparison to what the others were doing during the same time period is a more telling one.

[Dawg61]

Except Lance Armstrong just admitted to using steroids. It doesn't take a genius to figure out Barry Bonds had pretty much every single side affect of using steroids. The guy used and so did Mark McGuire.

Different man and he admitted he took steroids where Bonds has always denied ever using steroids and passed every single steroids test administered to him by MLB, all 22 times he passed. What side effects are you speaking of? Because he gained weight and muscle slowly over a period of fifteen years? Who can't do that? It is natural for your body to gain additional weight the older you get and he's a multimillionaire athlete with access to the best trainers and equipment possible for strength training. Why is it so crazy to think he just got stronger and bigger from a committed strength program over the course of 15-20 years of time? If you didn't gain muscle and weight after fifteen years of doing it than you're doing it wrong. Every single one of us knows a common person that can and has gained 20-30 lbs of muscle from working out. It's not uncommon. Look at Miguel Cabrera. He has gained more weight and muscle than Bonds did.

Florida Marlins Miggy

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/960/img/photos/2012/10/13/c7/4e/miggie2003.JPG


Detroit Tigers Miggy

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Miguel_Cabrera_(2011).jpg