In ECU Pirate news....

[ScottH]

http://www.wnct.com/story/25861854/ecu-hires-cliff-godwin-as-new-baseball-coach

[Dawg61]

http://i.imgur.com/uVNZZrM.gif

[Jacksondevildog]

Expected and it's a big loss for ole miss. I'm more concerned about who we hire to replace Jake Wells leaving for La Tech.

[messageboardsuperhero]

This has been a done deal for several days now. Godwin is a great coach- and I'm glad he'll be out of Oxford.

[Todd4State]

Not surprising, but even so it's definitely a big blow for them.

[ScottH]

This has been a done deal for several days now. Godwin is a great coach- and I'm glad he'll be out of Oxford.

A little additional info from a vendor of mine who is a Platinum Pirate (ECU's top donor level) and a huge baseball fan.

It's been sort of on again off again since the end of last week. Actually, Godwin's dad was originally in favor of his son staying in Oxford and waiting on "bigger" job.

Ultimately, dad got on board, the money (both salary and budget) got right and the lure of coming home to coach ended up too compelling.

Rest assured though, when Bianco leaves, Godwin's name will be at the top of the "coaches we want and can actually hire" list.

[Jacksondevildog]

They will act like it's not, but he was a big reason behind their recruiting and used the perfect game recruiting evaluation system. I'm sure Kendall Rogers won't be getting quite as much of a boner about ole miss next year.

[Coach34]

Thats ok- Bianco making the CWS guarantees his ass 5 more years

[Todd4State]

Thats ok- Bianco making the CWS guarantees his ass 5 more years

Or longer. I think Bianco is there as long as he wants to be now. Took them to Omaha and I think he is the schools all-time winningest coach now.

[State82]

Kind of the perfect storm for them, or us, depending on the perspective. They lose the guy that many credit their recent success and then Bianco secures his position for several more years at least with the CWS appearance.

[maroonmania]

I think its safe to say that Godwin is a much bigger loss for them than Wells is for us. Heck, Wells was not even a full time coach on our staff.

[Todd4State]

Kind of the perfect storm for them, or us, depending on the perspective. They lose the guy that many credit their recent success and then Bianco secures his position for several more years at least with the CWS appearance.

It depends on who Ole Miss hires to replace Godwin. I think it will be hard to replace him, but I also don't think it's totally impossible either.

[Homedawg]

Don't fool yourselves guys, ole miss is going to be good in baseball. Bianco does a good job. I'm glad they lost him but he isn't the first good asst they've had. One day we will lose butch, it will suck, and I love butch, but we won't stop winning games because of it.

[Todd4State]

I think its safe to say that Godwin is a much bigger loss for them than Wells is for us. Heck, Wells was not even a full time coach on our staff.

No doubt. The bad thing for Ole Miss is this happens right before July, which is sort of like Dec./Jan. for college football recruiting.

[Todd4State]

Don't fool yourselves guys, ole miss is going to be good in baseball. Bianco does a good job. I'm glad they lost him but he isn't the first good asst they've had. One day we will lose butch, it will suck, and I love butch, but we won't stop winning games because of it.

Like I said, it depends on who they replace him with. McDonnell was good, and then Bianco hired a couple of duds and then he hired Godwin. So, historically Bianco is about 50% on hires.

[Jacksondevildog]

I think its safe to say that Godwin is a much bigger loss for them than Wells is for us. Heck, Wells was not even a full time coach on our staff.

Why wouldn't we have him as full time?

[Homedawg]

No doubt. The bad thing for Ole Miss is this happens right before July, which is sort of like Dec./Jan. for college football recruiting.

Next years class is pretty much done. It's 16 that is the big deal now.

[Homedawg]

Why wouldn't we have him as full time?

He was. Mania is wrong. He was just 3rd asst. thus the camp coordinator. That's the only way NCAA allows it. But he was full time.
Eta, but I agree w him, clearly Godwin is a bigger loss for them than wells. That's true obviously.

[Jacksondevildog]

I'm more concerned with us hiring a coach that can improve our offense instead of dealing with kids at camp that hit better than our seniors.

[Todd4State]

Why wouldn't we have him as full time?

NCAA rules. The third coach has to be a "volunteer assistant"- although he they are volunteer in name only. It's pretty dumb if you ask me.

[Todd4State]

Next years class is pretty much done. It's 16 that is the big deal now.

For us or for them? I'm pretty sure we will sign at least three more guys.

At any rate, it leaves a gap that has to be filled and over time it will catch up to them.

[KB21]

I'm more concerned with us hiring a coach that can improve our offense instead of dealing with kids at camp that hit better than our seniors.

Cohen's offenses at Kentucky:
2004 -- 0.288 AVG, 0.385 OBP, 0.453 SLG, 384 SO, 238 BB, 72 HBP, 372 runs
2005 -- 0.298 AVG, 0.405 OBP, 0.441 SLG, 430 SO, 294 BB, 65 HBP, 397 runs
2006 -- 0.299 AVG, 0.411 OBP, 0.523 SLG, 428 SO, 337 BB, 80 HBP, 500 runs
2007 -- 0.320 AVG, 0.437 OBP, 0.482 SLG, 371 SO, 317 BB, 93 HBP, 461 runs
2008 -- 0.318 AVG, 0.412 OBP, 0.516 SLG, 468 SO, 283 BB, 88 HBP, 510 runs

I think John Cohen coaches offense just fine. He coaches to the park he is in. Kentucky plays in a band box. The ball flies out of that stadium, so Cohen recruited guys like Sawyer Carroll, Collin Cowgil, Sean Coughlin, and Ryan Strieby to have an offense to post 0.500+ SLG. When he came to Mississippi State, he had a team that played in a stadium where it is harder to hit home runs and drive the ball, so he recruits to the park. He gets guys who are contact hitters that have speed and can cover a lot of ground on defense. With the change in the ball, Cohen has recruited some guys that will probably add some pop to the line up recently in Reid Humphreys, Daniel Garner, Dylan Ingram, Brent Rooker, Gavin Collins, and Cole Gordon.

Hitting is John Cohen's forte, so it really doesn't matter who is hired as a hitting coach, it isn't going to be an autonomous situation, and to be quite honest, the teams we have had the past 3 years, there isn't a coach that can make those guys slug the ball 0.500 or better because that ability just hasn't been there. MSU's OBP during that time has hovered around 0.400, and that's what John Cohen has focused on with the park factors at hand. You can't score runs unless you get on base, and because of that, OBP should be weighted higher than SLG.

I'm not going to criticize how John Cohen and his staff coaches these hitters. They get the most they can out of what they have. My biggest criticism of John Cohen comes with line up construction. I do not think he optimizes his line up based on where he hits folks. He's kind of stuck in that traditional baseball thinking rut that you need a speed guy hitting leadoff, bat control guy second, and your best hitter 3rd and so forth.

[Jacksondevildog]

Cohen needs to figure out a lineup by SEC time and stick with it. This playing 55 different lineups in a row hurts continuity and keeps guys out of rhythm. We need some guys to step up and solidify starting spots.

[engie]

Cohen needs to figure out a lineup by SEC time and stick with it. This playing 55 different lineups in a row hurts continuity and keeps guys out of rhythm. We need some guys to step up and solidify starting spots.

Disagree...

For every player that constant changes hurts, strict continuity hurts one as well. It depends on the players.

[Homedawg]

For us or for them? I'm pretty sure we will sign at least three more guys.

At any rate, it leaves a gap that has to be filled and over time it will catch up to them.

I meant for them. Both of us have lots of commits and will add some more but they have the meat of it already committed. I think you are right we will get 3-5 more.

[Jacksondevildog]

I agree that you have to have the pulse read of your team, but let's just say that I've talked to some that are actually on the team. Maybe that's where I'm basing this opinion.

[engie]

I agree that you have to have the pulse read of your team, but let's just say that I've talked to some that are actually on the team. Maybe that's where I'm basing this opinion.

I've talked to quite a few too...and have been on both sides of the fence...

The excuses and mental weakness of this team was the problem -- not the lineup moving around. Most of them hit like crap and failed expectations. Instead of owning it and overcoming it, they made a bunch of excuses and blamed the coaches. Need to have a larger housecleaning this year than in the past couple...

Fact is -- guys that stepped up and did their job at a high level earned and got continuity. How many times did Pirtle leave the 3-hole late in the season? Collins earned his way into a consistent role as well. Ultimately, we have this conversation every year. Every team is different. Last year's team had almost complete continuity from midpoint of the season on. Why? Because they were stepping up and doing their job. Very few players have a legitimate gripe about not being able to "settle into roles"... They didn't get to settle in because they didn't step up and earn it...

[Percho]

I think last years team lacked maturity and on field leadership. That happens sometime. I believe we will be fine.

[shoeless joe]

This is correct. Batting order only really matters the first time thru and even then it is over emphasized. When you step in the box with no one on, or bases loaded, and a 0-0 count it makes zero difference what number in the line up you are. Generally the excuse of not getting a rhythm from being move around is just that...an excuse from someone who isn't getting the job done and is looking for a reason to deflect the negativity off of them. In all my years in baseball I have seen very very few guys who were affected by batting order. And those usually consisted of guys being moved to leadoff or 2 hole and that is only because sometimes those spots take a change in approach. Everywhere else is just hitting for someone who can hit.

[messageboardsuperhero]

I've talked to quite a few too...and have been on both sides of the fence...

The excuses and mental weakness of this team was the problem -- not the lineup moving around. Most of them hit like crap and failed expectations. Instead of owning it and overcoming it, they made a bunch of excuses and blamed the coaches. Need to have a larger housecleaning this year than in the past couple...

Fact is -- guys that stepped up and did their job at a high level earned and got continuity. How many times did Pirtle leave the 3-hole late in the season? Collins earned his way into a consistent role as well. Ultimately, we have this conversation every year. Every team is different. Last year's team had almost complete continuity from midpoint of the season on. Why? Because they were stepping up and doing their job. Very few players have a legitimate gripe about not being able to "settle into roles"... They didn't get to settle in because they didn't step up and earn it...

Yes. Heck, Pirtle, Collins, and Bradford were in the lineup EVERY GAME because they were the only ones who produced on a regular basis. Frankly, if a player produces consistently for Cohen, then he will play consistently. It seems like every other guy had times where he showed promise and had big games- but after a few games of playing time, started falling back again. Reid Humphreys and maybe Cody Brown are probably the only two guys who I thought legitimately should have played more.

Finding consistent production from nine guys will be the biggest key to our offensive success next year.

[KB21]

This is correct. Batting order only really matters the first time thru and even then it is over emphasized. When you step in the box with no one on, or bases loaded, and a 0-0 count it makes zero difference what number in the line up you are. Generally the excuse of not getting a rhythm from being move around is just that...an excuse from someone who isn't getting the job done and is looking for a reason to deflect the negativity off of them. In all my years in baseball I have seen very very few guys who were affected by batting order. And those usually consisted of guys being moved to leadoff or 2 hole and that is only because sometimes those spots take a change in approach. Everywhere else is just hitting for someone who can hit.

This theory has been proven wrong. The stats show that your top 4 hitters in the line up get more plate appearances than the bottom 4 in the line up. The numbers also show that your leadoff guy has a plate appearance with runners on base only 36% of the time. Because of this, the ability to drive the ball and move runners over is of less importance in the leadoff guy. Also, because he is batting mostly with no one on, it makes it even more important for him to get on base. So, the leadoff hitter needs to be your best guy at getting on base. The player that bats the highest percentage of the time with runners on base is your #4 hitter, so the ability to hit for power, which is measured by your IsoP, is of greater importance at that slot.

[shoeless joe]

This theory has been proven wrong. The stats show that your top 4 hitters in the line up get more plate appearances than the bottom 4 in the line up. The numbers also show that your leadoff guy has a plate appearance with runners on base only 36% of the time. Because of this, the ability to drive the ball and move runners over is of less importance in the leadoff guy. Also, because he is batting mostly with no one on, it makes it even more important for him to get on base. So, the leadoff hitter needs to be your best guy at getting on base. The player that bats the highest percentage of the time with runners on base is your #4 hitter, so the ability to hit for power, which is measured by your IsoP, is of greater importance at that slot.

I agree with you but you misunderstood my post...

On an individual hitter level it should not matter where you hit. You should do your thing where ever your slotted if you are a good hitter. Go back to my post and notice I did specify that leadoff and 2 hole were different, which is what you are also saying.

Now I am a huge proponent in getting the best hitters up as much as possible. On a team success level the line up can be important because the coach puts certain guys in certain positions...run producers in middle, on base guys at top, etc...so we agree there.

My point was that if I'm a hitter standing in the box it should not affect me as to whether I'm up 6th or 9th, I still gotta hit.

[Todd4State]

I've talked to quite a few too...and have been on both sides of the fence...

The excuses and mental weakness of this team was the problem -- not the lineup moving around. Most of them hit like crap and failed expectations. Instead of owning it and overcoming it, they made a bunch of excuses and blamed the coaches. Need to have a larger housecleaning this year than in the past couple...

Fact is -- guys that stepped up and did their job at a high level earned and got continuity. How many times did Pirtle leave the 3-hole late in the season? Collins earned his way into a consistent role as well. Ultimately, we have this conversation every year. Every team is different. Last year's team had almost complete continuity from midpoint of the season on. Why? Because they were stepping up and doing their job. Very few players have a legitimate gripe about not being able to "settle into roles"... They didn't get to settle in because they didn't step up and earn it...

AMEN. Our guys that aren't producing need to realize that if they want to play they are going to have to nut up and produce. If they are so lucky to get into minor league baseball, even if it's Independent League ball, their manager is going to chew their ass out and/or laugh at them when they go into their offense talking about needing to hit in a certain spot to "get into a groove".

Hell- Matt Holliday hit SECOND the past few days for the Cardinals. Anyone can get moved around at any time on any day. You have to do the job at hand based on what the team is ASKING you to do. Those that do that get to play more.

And our guys need to realize that they are going to hit better and the TEAM is going to do better if they do what our coaches are asking them to do. We have too many guys out there trying to be dead pull hitters in a big ballpark with dead bats trying to pretend to be Babe Ruth. That's a recipe for fly outs.

They all need to work on using the whole field, going opposite field if they are behind in the count, work on strike zone judgement, and they need to work on bunting too. Playing ULL may have been the best thing to happen to us because despite whatever they are doing against the rules, they still had a good approach and they could bunt as well as anyone else out there. I hope our guys took notes.

[Todd4State]

I think last years team lacked maturity and on field leadership. That happens sometime. I believe we will be fine.

We will be fine... but some guys may have to have a kick in the ass to do get to where they need to be.

[KB21]

I agree with you but you misunderstood my post...

On an individual hitter level it should not matter where you hit. You should do your thing where ever your slotted if you are a good hitter. Go back to my post and notice I did specify that leadoff and 2 hole were different, which is what you are also saying.

Now I am a huge proponent in getting the best hitters up as much as possible. On a team success level the line up can be important because the coach puts certain guys in certain positions...run producers in middle, on base guys at top, etc...so we agree there.

My point was that if I'm a hitter standing in the box it should not affect me as to whether I'm up 6th or 9th, I still gotta hit.

OK. I got you now.

Back to the line up deal, the problem with college ball is that you will have a small sample size. For example, last year, Alex Detz had about a 0.430 OBP with a 17% BB rate. That is exceptional!! For all intents and purposes, he should have been leading off last year instead of hitting 2nd. Adam Frazier was the best hitter on the team. He should have hit second. Detz's OBP fell to around 0.363 this year though, which was not the highest on the team. His walk rate fell some to around 13%, which was still an exceptional rate. Alex actually struck out less as well. He was the victim of poor luck though, as his BABIP fell from around 0.380 in 2013 to about 0.265 in 2014.

Sometimes you have to anticipate how someone will do. Going into fall ball, I would go in with the idea that Seth Heck will lead off for the team. He had a 0.407 OBP this past year and is not a guy that is going move runners over with extra base hits. My hope is that Reid Humphreys ends up hitting 4th. It is a SSS, but he had a 33% extra base hit rate last year. His IsoP was low, but I think that will come in time. IMO, Gavin Collins is the best hitter on the team and should probably hit 2nd, but John Holland may end up being a 2 hole hitter with Collins hitting 3rd/4th. It will be interesting to see which Wes Rea we get. I would probably hit Jake Vickerson 7th.