Malik Newman update

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

http://collegespun.com/acc/duke/report-5-star-recruits-diamond-stone-and-malik-newman-are-a-package-deal

[msstate7]

In other words, hopefully we get nych smith

[thf24]

I'm usually an optimist but I'd say that any shot we had with Malik just died.

In other news, whatever top-tier school gets them should be the immediate NC favorite.

[Dental Dawg]

I tried to send the word to our basketball staff in January that Malik was a package deal with Stone,so I called a friend with inside connections to the basketball program. I thought it would be good to get a jump on the competition. Now the whole world knows and I seriously doubt that our basketball staff did a damn thing to capitalize on this when they had the chance. Maybe Diamond Stone has zero interest in coming to State, but if I were RR, I would have busted my ass to get him to come take a look at MSU.

[Coach34]

Ray has known for a long time. Sometimes- there's just not much you can do

[coastdoglover]

Keep on defending. This staff cannot recruit. We are all waiting for you to admit it and we expect the same scrutiny you used with our last coach. Forget all your normal BS, it is all about wins and losses and competing regularly in the SEC.



Ray has known for a long time. Sometimes- there's just not much you can do

[Dawg61]

Malik ain't coming here so what about the next ten best basketball players in MS/AL/TN/GA/FL/AR/LA. Newman ain't LeBron.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Quinndary Weatherspoon would be the guy I'm focusing my attention on. 6'5" 175lbs 2 guard from Velma Jackson. Offers from MSU, OM, TN, Wake Forest, & MTSU. Very nice stroke but also can attack the rim.

[I seen it dawg]

Keep on defending. This staff cannot recruit. We are all waiting for you to admit it and we expect the same scrutiny you used with our last coach. Forget all your normal BS, it is all about wins and losses and competing regularly in the SEC.

The prior staff couldn't coach. I guess we need to find a happy medium

[I seen it dawg]

And isn't Malik Mewman the top rated player in his class? I know he has ties to us but is it realistic to think if he has Duke, Kentucky, etc lining up begging him to come that we would be sitting pretty. I don't thin it matters who the coach is.

[thf24]

And isn't Malik Mewman the top rated player in his class? I know he has ties to us but is it realistic to think if he has Duke, Kentucky, etc lining up begging him to come that we would be sitting pretty. I don't thin it matters who the coach is.

This. I hate to pull Stansbury's name into the issue, but as good of a recruiter as he was, did he himself ever land one of these top-rated guys that every big name program wanted? It's true that Ray hasn't shown a lot of recruiting ability thus far, but losing out on a top-rated, nationally-recruited player isn't a strike against him.

[smootness]

This staff can't recruit? Based on what? On the fact that the #1 player in the country, who we probably had at best a 10% shot to land to begin with, decided he wants to be a package deal with the #3 player in the country who has no ties at all in any way to Mississippi State, and we can't land them both? Seriously?

Was Ray supposed to convince Newman not to be a package deal with this kid? Or was he supposed to convince Stone to come play at State, for essentially no reason?

I enjoy the assumption that a) Ray didn't know about the package deal already, and b) that he didn't care about it and decided he didn't want the #3 overall player in the country.

Good grief, people. If you want to fire Ray, then wait until we see what we have on the court and if it's bad, use that.

But trying to use the fact that he can't land two top-5 players against him only proves your agenda.

[Irondawg]

at this poing we are just beating a dead horse. Ray has two ways to save his job this year. get to the NIT or land a recruiting class that gives the fanbase hope. Do neither of those and i don't think there is any saving him.

[Coach34]

Keep on defending. This staff cannot recruit. We are all waiting for you to admit it and we expect the same scrutiny you used with our last coach. Forget all your normal BS, it is all about wins and losses and competing regularly in the SEC.

Well by God- why isn't the old network helping them like they did our previous coach????!!

[I seen it dawg]

at this poing we are just beating a dead horse. Ray has two ways to save his job this year. get to the NIT or land a recruiting class that gives the fanbase hope. Do neither of those and i don't think there is any saving him.

And you can't indict him until the players he has in September on campus start hitting the court.

[Dawg61]

I've moved on from Newman, he's got $ signs in his eyes and I don't blame him. He's about 24 months away from being a multi-millionaire. We need to move up a couple notches from losing to winless TCU to middle of the pack SEC at least before we can hope to be landing top 50 players. I like the suggestion of Quinndary Weatherspoon. Ray should be all over these types. How much time and energy is Ray and his staff spending on Newman when it could be spent on the Quinndary Weatherspoon types?

[DudyDawg]

Where does this leave us as far as schollys and our roster going forward? I have fallen behind a bit in basketball recruiting I'm sad to say

[Dawgface]

Whatever chance we had to land him was too low to even register on a scale. This is not surprising news.

[Homedawg]

This staff can't recruit? Based on what? On the fact that the #1 player in the country, who we probably had at best a 10% shot to land to begin with, decided he wants to be a package deal with the #3 player in the country who has no ties at all in any way to Mississippi State, and we can't land them both? Seriously?

Was Ray supposed to convince Newman not to be a package deal with this kid? Or was he supposed to convince Stone to come play at State, for essentially no reason?

I enjoy the assumption that a) Ray didn't know about the package deal already, and b) that he didn't care about it and decided he didn't want the #3 overall player in the country.

Good grief, people. If you want to fire Ray, then wait until we see what we have on the court and if it's bad, use that.

But trying to use the fact that he can't land two top-5 players against him only proves your agenda.

To add to this point- Bo Ryan at Wisconsin can't get them both, thus he can't recruit either. Anyone with a brain knows a kid from Wisconsin isn't coming to play basketball at state no matter who the coach is. And a kid from Mississippi isn't going in a package to Wisconsin. It's nuts. Our odds were bleak to get Malik alone. As a package they are impossible.

[Tbonewannabe]

This. I hate to pull Stansbury's name into the issue, but as good of a recruiter as he was, did he himself ever land one of these top-rated guys that every big name program wanted? It's true that Ray hasn't shown a lot of recruiting ability thus far, but losing out on a top-rated, nationally-recruited player isn't a strike against him.

I am in the camp of giving Ray a year to see how his players pan out but Stans did sign Montae Ellis who could have gone wherever he wanted. He just so happened to be the first ever guard at 6' to be drafted out of high school the last year it was possible. Stans also signed Jonathan Bender but most people thought he was 50/50 at best to come to college before he blew up the McD's allstar game.

Stans worst class would probably be better than the best Rick Ray class but you also had to deal with the drama and lack of Xs and Os.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Like it or not, Ray gets 2 more years.
Let's just support him and if he succeeds, great. If he doesnt, we can hire Stan Jones.

[Dawg61]

Like it or not, Ray gets till the new baseball park is built. Then we can focus money on basketball.
Let's just support him and if he succeeds, great. If he doesnt, we can hire Stan Jones.

fify

[Jacksondevildog]

fify

I don't think people realize how exactly correct your post truly is in regards to the baseball stadium.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

I don't think people realize how exactly correct your post truly is in regards to the baseball stadium.

? Explain ?

What is fify?

[Jacksondevildog]

I meant to quote the response about the baseball stadium. Us being down in hoops has put more financial focus on the baseball stadium renovations. I know that for a fact.

[TheRef]

? Explain ?

What is fify?

FIFY=Fixed it for you

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Ahhh, so yall can handle bball until 2017?

[maroonmania]

This. I hate to pull Stansbury's name into the issue, but as good of a recruiter as he was, did he himself ever land one of these top-rated guys that every big name program wanted? It's true that Ray hasn't shown a lot of recruiting ability thus far, but losing out on a top-rated, nationally-recruited player isn't a strike against him.

Now I don't know what chance Stans would have had with Newman given people here think Horatio didn't like him but yes, Stans pulled in quite a few top name players like you are talking about in guys like Monta Ellis, Jonathan Bender, Travis Outlaw, Mario Austin, Rodney Hood and even Renardo Sidney (as bad as that turned out). There were others that were just below that level that he reeled in as well.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Romero Osby and goodridge were wanted by everyone too

[Homedawg]

Now I don't know what chance Stans would have had with Newman given people here think Horatio didn't like him but yes, Stans pulled in quite a few top name players like you are talking about in guys like Monta Ellis, Jonathan Bender, Travis Outlaw, Mario Austin, Rodney Hood and even Renardo Sidney (as bad as that turned out). There were others that were just below that level that he reeled in as well.

He lost his fair share from in state too, D. Rice, A. Mcdyess, and J. Reed, just to name a few. With that said he was a good recruiter and excelled in getting many of his top targets. His problem was keeping them and then coaching them up.

[Dawg61]

Ahhh, so yall can handle bball until 2017?

I'm not cool with us sucking till the completion of the park because I believe we can afford to build the stadium and hire a $2mill a year basketball coach at the same time. If we have to wait till 2017 we will lose a lot of fans for a long time. If they'd make a big hire in basketball it'd actually generate more money towards the new park. I think they have the steps backwards.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

If ray doesnt win this year or next, he is gone. So 2016 if he keeps losing.

I dont think the stadium will be held up by basketball regardless.

[Dawg61]

I dont think the stadium will be held up by basketball regardless.

No it's the exact opposite that I'm saying is the case. The basketball hire will be delayed till the completion of the stadium.

[thf24]

Now I don't know what chance Stans would have had with Newman given people here think Horatio didn't like him but yes, Stans pulled in quite a few top name players like you are talking about in guys like Monta Ellis, Jonathan Bender, Travis Outlaw, Mario Austin, Rodney Hood and even Renardo Sidney (as bad as that turned out). There were others that were just below that level that he reeled in as well.

I'm not going to all out disagree because I honestly didn't mean to and don't want to take any shots at Stansbury, but I have a hard time counting those he didn't get to campus as players successfully recruited. That's not to say Stansbury should have been able to convince them to put off a sure spot in the pros to go to school; I just think you can't say their recruitments would have been the same had they and everyone else not been pretty sure they were NBA-bound. I'd also put Hood on that "just below" level you mentioned, and Sidney isn't the same in that he no longer had unlimited options when it came time to sign the papers.

Again, I don't mean this as a slight against Stansbury in any way; I just think it's unfair to hold Newman against Ray when even the best recruiter in our program's history didn't have a ton of success recruiting players of his caliber with his options.

[Tbonewannabe]

I'm not going to all out disagree because I honestly didn't mean to and don't want to take any shots at Stansbury, but I have a hard time counting those he didn't get to campus as players successfully recruited. That's not to say Stansbury should have been able to convince them to put off a sure spot in the pros to go to school; I just think you can't say their recruitments would have been the same had they and everyone else not been pretty sure they were NBA-bound. I'd also put Hood on that "just below" level you mentioned, and Sidney isn't the same in that he no longer had unlimited options when it came time to sign the papers.

Again, I don't mean this as a slight against Stansbury in any way; I just think it's unfair to hold Newman against Ray when even the best recruiter in our program's history didn't have a ton of success recruiting players of his caliber with his options.

No one thought Montae Ellis was going to the NBA.

[maroonmania]

I'm not going to all out disagree because I honestly didn't mean to and don't want to take any shots at Stansbury, but I have a hard time counting those he didn't get to campus as players successfully recruited. That's not to say Stansbury should have been able to convince them to put off a sure spot in the pros to go to school; I just think you can't say their recruitments would have been the same had they and everyone else not been pretty sure they were NBA-bound. I'd also put Hood on that "just below" level you mentioned, and Sidney isn't the same in that he no longer had unlimited options when it came time to sign the papers.

Again, I don't mean this as a slight against Stansbury in any way; I just think it's unfair to hold Newman against Ray when even the best recruiter in our program's history didn't have a ton of success recruiting players of his caliber with his options.

Well no we didn't get them to campus but I don't think their recruitment would have been much different today. I don't think anyone backed off those guys because they MIGHT go pro. In fact Ellis may have been the only one that most thought would go pro and he ended up in the second round but signed anyway. Bender shot up the draft in the McD AA game well after signing and nobody really though Outlaw was a serious threat to get drafted but he did as like the last pick in the first round. It could change but right now Ray's recruiting of in-state players is not even on the same planet with what Stans had going. And yea, I know Stans had some help but he also worked his ass off in the recruiting game as well. Anyone who has ever heard about the effort he put in to get Austin away from Bama knows that.

[Coach34]

No one thought Montae Ellis was going to the NBA.

da ****?

I dont know anybody that didnt. I talked to a football coach from Murrah the summer before his Sr year and he told me Ellis was NBA all the way- he would never see college. Outlaw was headed to the NBA also if there was any chance. Bender was the only surprise because he blew up atthe McDonald's game.

Holy shit- Ellis was always a pipe dream

[Coach34]

I see my retort to Grandpa about the "old network" fell on deaf ears

Ray has 2 more seasons folks- might as well get used to it

[Tbonewannabe]

da ****?

I dont know anybody that didnt. I talked to a football coach from Murrah the summer before his Sr year and he told me Ellis was NBA all the way- he would never see college. Outlaw was headed to the NBA also if there was any chance. Bender was the only surprise because he blew up atthe McDonald's game.

Holy shit- Ellis was always a pipe dream
Well he barely went in the first round and at the time no 6 foot shooting guard had went straight to the nba. You really need to get over the Stans hate. Travis Outlaw was going when he got a 1st round guarantee from Portland. Bender was actually the most prototypical high school player because he was 6'11 and could shoot.

[Coach34]

Well he barely went in the first round and at the time no 6 foot shooting guard had went straight to the nba. .

but all they were told was that he was going to get drafted mid-1st

[Tbonewannabe]

but all they were told was that he was going to get drafted mid-1st

I am a dumbass. I just looked up the 2005 draft and I thought he went late first round. He went late 2nd round. He definitely believed in himself and was going to the NBA because that is pure stupidity with no guaranteed contract. A lot of 2nd round picks don't even make the team much less get a contract. I wonder what person told them he was getting drafted in the 1st round when every measure the NBA typically used would tell you he might not even get drafted.

Well when Stans signed him No shooting guard in the last 20 years had been drafted out of high school as short as he was. I remember people thinking because of that we should get him in school. I remember Travis Outlaw was coming to college until Portland promised him a 1st round pick at least that was the word around Starkville at the time. I believe they were the only team that planned on taking him in the first round but that is all it takes. I had no connection to Jackson then so I have no clue if just one team set on Monta or if there were multiple teams talking to him about drafting him.

JFF almost fell out of the 1st round purely due to his height and basketball is even more important with not having your shot blocked.

[mcdawg]

but all they were told was that he was going to get drafted mid-1st

Serious question - who would you take on your high school team (Monta or Malik)? I saw both play in high school and thought Monta was better.

[shannondawg]

I see my retort to Grandpa about the "old network" fell on deaf ears

Ray has 2 more seasons folks- might as well get used to it

Ray needs to get his own network. Why don't you help him? They do a lot more things than just what you are implying...

[Coach34]

Serious question - who would you take on your high school team (Monta or Malik)? I saw both play in high school and thought Monta was better.

i haven't seen Malik play- but Monta is the best overall HS player I've seen in oerson

[maroonmania]

I am a dumbass. I just looked up the 2005 draft and I thought he went late first round. He went late 2nd round. He definitely believed in himself and was going to the NBA because that is pure stupidity with no guaranteed contract. A lot of 2nd round picks don't even make the team much less get a contract. I wonder what person told them he was getting drafted in the 1st round when every measure the NBA typically used would tell you he might not even get drafted.

Well when Stans signed him No shooting guard in the last 20 years had been drafted out of high school as short as he was. I remember people thinking because of that we should get him in school. I remember Travis Outlaw was coming to college until Portland promised him a 1st round pick at least that was the word around Starkville at the time. I believe they were the only team that planned on taking him in the first round but that is all it takes. I had no connection to Jackson then so I have no clue if just one team set on Monta or if there were multiple teams talking to him about drafting him.

JFF almost fell out of the 1st round purely due to his height and basketball is even more important with not having your shot blocked.

Yep, I clearly stated Monta went in the second round in my earlier post and it was a key point because really at that time it was very unusual for a second round guy to skip college. Hard to put blame on Stans for that one other than it was quite obvious Ellis was looking any way he could find to skip the college route.

[Homedawg]

Ray needs to get his own network. Why don't you help him? They do a lot more things than just what you are implying...

So, Stan's network was just that Stan's. And they aren't for the university? Gotcha. I know the answer.

[Coach34]

So, Stan's network was just that Stan's. And they aren't for the university? Gotcha. I know the answer.

Yeah- his post pretty much said it all didn't it?

[thf24]

Yeah, why should Ray have it so easy? I bet Bruce Pearl had to "get his own network" at Auburn.*****

[ScottH]

Serious question - who would you take on your high school team (Monta or Malik)? I saw both play in high school and thought Monta was better.

Monta.

He and Chris Jackson were by far the two best high school players I have ever seen in person.

I'm not sure who third would be but it's a really big gap between 1/1A and 3rd.

[Coach34]

Yeah, why should Ray have it so easy? I bet Bruce Pearl had to "get his own network" at Auburn.*****

no shit...but Ray is getting a fair shake isn't he?

[RougeDawg]

This staff can't recruit? Based on what? On the fact that the #1 player in the country, who we probably had at best a 10% shot to land to begin with, decided he wants to be a package deal with the #3 player in the country who has no ties at all in any way to Mississippi State, and we can't land them both? Seriously?

Was Ray supposed to convince Newman not to be a package deal with this kid? Or was he supposed to convince Stone to come play at State, for essentially no reason?

I enjoy the assumption that a) Ray didn't know about the package deal already, and b) that he didn't care about it and decided he didn't want the #3 overall player in the country.

Good grief, people. If you want to fire Ray, then wait until we see what we have on the court and if it's bad, use that.

But trying to use the fact that he can't land two top-5 players against him only proves your agenda.

He couldn't even find an upperclassman transfer to fill our allotment of schollys the last two years, when everyone from UK to ULL was reeling in quality transfers. That's inexcusable for a SEC program that used to be in the top half every year.

Tell me what exactly Ray has done to show he is even a mediocre recruiter? From what I and many others hade seen this far, is Ray doesn't have the ability sell a chocolate cake to honey boo boo, let alone a SEC basketball program to upper tier recruits.

[Dawg61]

no shit...but Ray is getting a fair shake isn't he?

How many excuses are we going to give him? Program is a dumpster fire…check, Stansbury left him with nothing…check, Stricklin won't let him play the game…check, Players left had drug problems…check, media labels us the biggest circus…check, Boosters won't support him…check, Stansbury is sabotaging him…check, fans won't support him…check, recruits read fans talking negative…check, Steele refused to play…check and on and on and on and on.

The basketball disaster has made a lot of Bulldog fans dislike other Bulldog fans. Thanks Stricklin.

[Goat from MSU]

How do we know if Ray has even ask for help? Good chance he has not .
no shit...but Ray is getting a fair shake isn't he?

[Goat from MSU]

This as RougeDawg has stated sums up Rick Ray to a T . I will love to see when we are 14 and 18 next season how The Gang of 3 will spin it for him to get more time.
He couldn't even find an upperclassman transfer to fill our allotment of schollys the last two years, when everyone from UK to ULL was reeling in quality transfers. That's inexcusable for a SEC program that used to be in the top half every year.

Tell me what exactly Ray has done to show he is even a mediocre recruiter? From what I and many others hade seen this far, is Ray doesn't have the ability sell a chocolate cake to honey boo boo, let alone a SEC basketball program to upper tier recruits.

[smootness]

How do we know if Ray has even ask for help? Good chance he has not .

Why do people assume he's lazy?

Probably hasn't even bothered talking to Diamond Stone, lazy recruiter, probably hasn't asked for any help in recruiting, probably doesn't know how to counter a 1-3-1, probably hasn't even bothered watching any tape of our opponents...

[Coach34]

We will be .500 or better this year

[smootness]

This as RougeDawg has stated sums up Rick Ray to a T . I will love to see when we are 14 and 18 next season how The Gang of 3 will spin it for him to get more time.

It sums up Ray to a T? The fact that he hasn't gotten any one-year upperclassmen transfers? O...K.... Look at our current situation - please tell me what quality one-year transfer is going to decide to play that one year at Mississippi State right now. Perhaps he would rather use those scholarships elsewhere.

This is exactly like the, 'We shouldn't have brought in Daniels and Ndoye because they didn't play in year one!' argument. Perhaps Ray is making decisions for our long-term benefit rather than fleeting short-term rewards?

He came into a disastrous situation, and instead of cutting corners to try to get an extra couple of wins right away, he has clearly decided to build long-term, even if it means it's a little more difficult in the first year or two. Well, it's impossible to determine if that is a good strategy in the first year or two when we haven't seen the potential rewards he's trying to make decisions for.

Year 3 is huge for him, and we will be able to see this year if he knows what he's doing in any way. If we are 14-18, it's difficult for me to see how we will be improved enough, or show enough promise, for me to believe at that point he will get it done.

I don't know why so many of our fans have been so quick to jump all over him, except that some have an agenda and others are your typical knee-jerk fan who sees what is immediately in front of them and wants to make permanent, long-term decisions on that without any consideration given to a long-term plan. The same kind of fans who thought Cohen was an idiot because he didn't compete for the SEC in year one.

[Coach34]

Why do people assume he's lazy?


Because people are basically stupid. Ray has recruited Newman harder than anybody in the country. And the group that didn't like him from the day he got the job- aka The Stands Sheep- perpetuate it.

People expect Ray to recruit like Stands but won't give him the help or the resources. It's ridiculous

[Dawg61]

Because people are basically stupid. Ray has recruited Newman harder than anybody in the country.

It's stupid to spend 90% of your recruiting efforts on a lost cause. We needed immediate help 2 years ago. We needed immediate help last year. We need immediate help this upcoming year. Why is Ray recruiting a lost cause harder than anybody in the country when we have other immediate needs right now?

[smootness]

So Ray is lazy if he doesn't go all out to get Newman and Stone...but then he's also stupid if he goes hard after Newman. Sweet, definitely a good spot for Ray to be in with our fan base.

[HancockCountyDog]

So, Stan's network was just that Stan's. And they aren't for the university? Gotcha. I know the answer.

To be fair - most college coaches have their network wherever they go. They don't stay with the college.

Pearl's network followed him to AU, Cal went with him to UK, it happens everywhere. In college basketball it is the coach that has the network - not the college. If Ray doesn't have one by now, that is on him, not Stans.

[Dawg61]

So Ray is lazy if he doesn't go all out to get Newman and Stone...but then he's also stupid if he goes hard after Newman. Sweet, definitely a good spot for Ray to be in with our fan base.

Even you can agree that spending most of his time on Newman at this point is counterproductive. Admit it Smoot. It's a wast of time at this point. He's not coming here. We need help in other areas and we haven't filled our 13 spots. Fill them.

[HancockCountyDog]

So Ray is lazy if he doesn't go all out to get Newman and Stone...but then he's also stupid if he goes hard after Newman. Sweet, definitely a good spot for Ray to be in with our fan base.

Thankfully he gets paid close to seven figures to make these tough decisions.

If he thinks he has a legit shot at Newman, then he should go all out. If he realizes that the family is just being polite, then he needs to move on. If he can't realize that the family is simply being polite and that he should be spending his time elsewhere - that is my problem.

I have no problem with him recruiting Newman if we are a legit school in his recruitment. The issue is knowing when you aren't. The bears cabbie freedom fighter isn't even recruiting Newman, because he knows they have zero shot. He is spending his time elsewhere, which is the right thing to do. The key is knowing when you are wasting your time, and when you aren't. Good coaches know when to say when.

There are no silver medals in basketball recruiting.

[Homedawg]

To be fair - most college coaches have their network wherever they go. They don't stay with the college.

Pearl's network followed him to AU, Cal went with him to UK, it happens everywhere. In college basketball it is the coach that has the network - not the college. If Ray doesn't have one by now, that is on him, not Stans.

Right. Huge tenn alums, that bleed orange and sing rocky top, that helped pearl buy players at UT now help him buy players at auburn. Yep.***

[smootness]

To be fair - most college coaches have their network wherever they go. They don't stay with the college.

Pearl's network followed him to AU, Cal went with him to UK, it happens everywhere. In college basketball it is the coach that has the network - not the college. If Ray doesn't have one by now, that is on him, not Stans.

This is insanity. Why in the world would a network follow a coach around?

[thf24]

To be fair - most college coaches have their network wherever they go. They don't stay with the college.

Pearl's network followed him to AU, Cal went with him to UK, it happens everywhere. In college basketball it is the coach that has the network - not the college. If Ray doesn't have one by now, that is on him, not Stans.

I'm not someone remotely in the know so this may just be my ignorance showing, but I have a real hard time buying that. Yeah, it makes sense that coaches have some friends and allies that go where they go, but I can't see anyone but boosters of the school in question being willing to put in the effort and resources that actually make things happen. What's really in it for anyone without a vested interest in the school? Friendship? Are they paid or otherwise compensated by the coach? Doubtful on both counts. Some isolated instances maybe, but that can't be how the game in general works.

[Homedawg]

This is insanity. Why in the world would a network follow a coach around?

Clearly, we are talking about different networks than Hancock is.

[Coach34]

Hancock has to be talking about apparel guys or AAU connections- cause ain't no Tenn money being spent on AU croots

[State82]

Hancock has to be talking about apparel guys or AAU connections

Sure he is. It's obviously not boosters of any particular school to which he is referring.

[fishwater99]

Well he barely went in the first round and at the time no 6 foot shooting guard had went straight to the nba. You really need to get over the Stans hate. Travis Outlaw was going when he got a 1st round guarantee from Portland. Bender was actually the most prototypical high school player because he was 6'11 and could shoot.

MONTA was gone, and most knew it.
He was projected as a 1st rounder and slipped some, but if you ever saw him play in High School you knew he was the real deal.
72 points in one game, he was on fire...
I wonder if any of those teams that passed on him wished they would have drafted him.

[fishwater99]

Serious question - who would you take on your high school team (Monta or Malik)? I saw both play in high school and thought Monta was better.

Malik is more of a well rounded player, but if you want a pure scorer it's Monta all day.

Chris Jackson was the best I ever saw in person. I think he scored 55 in the State Championship vs James "Hollywood" Robinson's 50.
What a game. CJ was throwing them up from the time line..

[coastdoglover]

Because people are basically stupid. Ray has recruited Newman harder than anybody in the country. And the group that didn't like him from the day he got the job- aka The Stands Sheep- perpetuate it.

People expect Ray to recruit like Stands but won't give him the help or the resources. It's ridiculous

Then why don't you pony up and get someone other than your Godchild Richard Williams to do it as well since he is in the group that has been told "we aint coming". You are one sick puppy. Blaming folks who supported the winningest coach in MSU history for failures of a guy who can't even get to .500 in the SEC. We all know you have never ever once admitted you were wrong about anything ,and now you got what you wanted and are spending hours trying to justify the move our AD made. The proof is in the pudding. If Ray can get us back to the level of an NIT bid,( which by the way you said was pitiful under the former coach) you will be jumping up and down with joy. What a damn hypocrisy.

[Dawg61]

Chris Jackson was an elite college player. He fell off some in the pros but he's a once in 25 years type shooter. Unreal player. He has tourettes and OCD and couldn't leave the gym every night till he shot something ridiculous like a 1,000 shots before he could leave.


http://youtu.be/V6V8fXCfNvw

[Coach34]

Then why don't you pony up and get someone other than your Godchild Richard Williams to do it as well since he is in the group that has been told "we aint coming".

there you have it folks- straight from the clowns mouth

[engie]

Then why don't you pony up and get someone other than your Godchild Richard Williams to do it as well since he is in the group that has been told "we aint coming". You are one sick puppy. Blaming folks who supported the winningest coach in MSU history for failures of a guy who can't even get to .500 in the SEC. We all know you have never ever once admitted you were wrong about anything ,and now you got what you wanted and are spending hours trying to justify the move our AD made. The proof is in the pudding. If Ray can get us back to the level of an NIT bid,( which by the way you said was pitiful under the former coach) you will be jumping up and down with joy. What a damn hypocrisy.

But it's not at all hypocritical to basically cancel your football tickets and pull MSU out of your will because a former basketball coach lost control at the end and was let go...

[Tbonewannabe]

MONTA was gone, and most knew it.
He was projected as a 1st rounder and slipped some, but if you ever saw him play in High School you knew he was the real deal.
72 points in one game, he was on fire...
I wonder if any of those teams that passed on him wished they would have drafted him.

Then he was gone. I just know the NBA still hasn't drafted a 6' shooting guard out of high school. I don't see any 1 and done players at his height going Lottery either. Who would you rather have JFF or Blake Bortles running the offense at MSU? JFF is one of the greatest statistically QBs to ever play college football and he almost fell out of the 1st round.

He also didn't "slip some", he almost wasn't drafted AT ALL. I don't know who told him he would be mid first round but it was probably his agent and no one connected with drafting anyone.

72 points in one game is impressive but I have seen players average almost 50. Penny Hardaway had a nephew that was doing that in Juco and he didn't make it.

I am glad it worked out for Monta but everyone saying he was a lock in the first round obviously doesn't know how the NBA draft works.

[tcdog70]

Because people are basically stupid. Ray has recruited Newman harder than anybody in the country. And the group that didn't like him from the day he got the job- aka The Stands Sheep- perpetuate it.

People expect Ray to recruit like Stands but won't give him the help or the resources. It's ridiculous

No chance of signing Newman-a waste of time He could have used on someone we could sign. Sorta like Croom going to blow the doors off of recruiting in Cally and Michigan-2 chances slim and none and slim left town last week. I promise you I did not like Him from day 1 and he hasn't done jack shit to change My mind. Keep on with the Ray love and we will see who the dumb asses are. Going into His third year He has zero guards that can defend. That alone will keep his shittyness intact.

[smootness]

Then he was gone. I just know the NBA still hasn't drafted a 6' shooting guard out of high school. I don't see any 1 and done players at his height going Lottery either. Who would you rather have JFF or Blake Bortles running the offense at MSU? JFF is one of the greatest statistically QBs to ever play college football and he almost fell out of the 1st round.

He also didn't "slip some", he almost wasn't drafted AT ALL. I don't know who told him he would be mid first round but it was probably his agent and no one connected with drafting anyone.

72 points in one game is impressive but I have seen players average almost 50. Penny Hardaway had a nephew that was doing that in Juco and he didn't make it.

I am glad it worked out for Monta but everyone saying he was a lock in the first round obviously doesn't know how the NBA draft works.

People aren't arguing he was a lock for the 1st round, they're saying he was a lock to go pro. The fact that he still went pro after slipping all the way to mid-2nd round just backs that up.

[Coach34]

People aren't arguing he was a lock for the 1st round, they're saying he was a lock to go pro. The fact that he still went pro after slipping all the way to mid-2nd round just backs that up.

Well put. Monta had no intention of playing college basketball unless he absolutely had to. Same with Outlaw

[Tbonewannabe]

Well put. Monta had no intention of playing college basketball unless he absolutely had to. Same with Outlaw

I wonder how long it will be before Europe starts getting guys instead of 1& done. Get paid instead of college for a year.

[Dawg61]

I wonder how long it will be before Europe starts getting guys instead of 1& done. Get paid instead of college for a year.

Already happening, Brandon Jennings and Jeremy Tyler both did that

[Coach34]

I wonder how long it will be before Europe starts getting guys instead of 1& done. Get paid instead of college for a year.

I def think you will see that grow

[Schultzy]

Well put. Monta had no intention of playing college basketball unless he absolutely had to. Same with Outlaw

Same with Bender too.

[shannondawg]

there you have it folks- straight from the clowns mouth


CDL, they can't. Hell, I doubt most of em even buy season tickets..

From what I have heard and its pretty close to the source, the basketball program has zero backing. Other than the mouthing of the athletic dept. Pitful part of it, Ray has no idea how to go about getting support. And without it , say what you want , in this day and time, without it , you are dead in the water.

All the talk about Scott and Keenum wanting a clean program, what prompted that? The continual investigations of our basketball program under Stansbury. Don't believe I remember reading about any.

Truth of the matter, Ray couldn't do it even if he knew how.

[Homedawg]

CDL, they can't. Hell, I doubt most of em even buy season tickets..

From what I have heard and its pretty close to the source, the basketball program has zero backing. Other than the mouthing of the athletic dept. Pitful part of it, Ray has no idea how to go about getting support. And without it , say what you want , in this day and time, without it , you are dead in the water.

All the talk about Scott and Keenum wanting a clean program, what prompted that? The continual investigations of our basketball program under Stansbury. Don't believe I remember reading about any.

Truth of the matter, Ray couldn't do it even if he knew how.

Is be pissed if I'd have forked out my money to help Stan's just to watch him screw it up once the players got here. Hell I am pissed I've been buying tickets since I graduated.

[engie]

And all that is fair to Ray how? Thanks for explaining it to the "Ray can't recruit" crowd though...

Last I checked, these people are supposed to be MSU fans -- but they are a bunch of shortsighted hacks with their heads up their asses that CONTINUALLY choose coaches over the school they profess to love -- and are too damn dumb to see when those same coaches are letting the thing burn down... They are even too stupid to see their mistake when they did it with Polk and prolonged Cohen's rebuild by a couple of years -- and are, instead, stubbornly doing the same damn thing with Ray.

[Coach34]

CDL, they can't. Hell, I doubt most of em even buy season tickets..

From what I have heard and its pretty close to the source, the basketball program has zero backing. Other than the mouthing of the athletic dept. Pitful part of it, Ray has no idea how to go about getting support. And without it , say what you want , in this day and time, without it , you are dead in the water.

All the talk about Scott and Keenum wanting a clean program, what prompted that? The continual investigations of our basketball program under Stansbury. Don't believe I remember reading about any.

Truth of the matter, Ray couldn't do it even if he knew how.

A) No shit. Thats what we have been talking about. Ray gets no support- but he is supposed to work wonders.

B) Hardly anybody gets in trouble in basketball- you have to be an idiot to go on probation in basketball recruiting. Its legal to give money to AAU programs to "sponsor" them- which gets funneled to the recruits. That is what makes Pearl an idiot- although an idiot that is a very good coach. Stands did a great job on all that and so did our network guys like CoastGeezer, the Jackson furniture Moguls, and probably even you Shannondawg.

[Dawg61]

Hold on a second here. It's not the responsibility of the money to seek out Ray. It is the other way around. How hard is it for Ray to get a list of the top names and approach them, take them out to dinner, invite them to practice, invite them into the locker room, play a round of golf with them, pick up the phone and shoot the shit with them, enjoy a nice bottle of 18 year old scotch and a few cuban cigars with them? Make friends. Maybe not all of them want to be buddy buddy with Ray but I'm sure more do than don't. People want to support Ray and part of Ray's job is to schmooze with the money. He signed up for it. Calipari has to do this. Donovan has to do this. Every fu*king successful coach in college basketball has to do this. Is Ray making the effort here? I doubt it. Instead what is happening is the absolute worst way to go about making friends and that's blasting everyone and calling them Stansbury lovers. Is Ray too proud to ask people for help? Does he expect million dollar checks to just be given to him without him having to do anything for it? Wine and dine people. Make them feel loved and they will love back. PLAY THE FU*KING GAME

[engie]

Hold on a second here. It's not the responsibility of the money to seek out Ray. It is the other way around. How hard is it for Ray to get a list of the top names and approach them, take them out to dinner, invite them to practice, invite them into the locker room, play a round of golf with them, pick up the phone and shoot the shit with them, enjoy a nice bottle of 18 year old scotch and a few cuban cigars with them? Make friends. Maybe not all of them want to be buddy buddy with Ray but I'm sure more do than don't. People want to support Ray and part of Ray's job is to schmooze with the money. He signed up for it. Calipari has to do this. Donovan has to do this. Every fu*king successful coach in college basketball has to do this. Is Ray making the effort here? I doubt it. Instead what is happening is the absolute worst way to go about making friends and that's blasting everyone and calling them Stansbury lovers. Is Ray too proud to ask people for help? Does he expect million dollar checks to just be given to him without him having to do anything for it? Wine and dine people. Make them feel loved and they will love back. PLAY THE FU*KING GAME

You think Ray hasn't tried to do all of that? He's been met with a cold shoulder by a booster structure that(STILL) supports the previous coach.

It's funny that you bring up the alcohol thing -- because I heard a story early on about how he tried to have a beer with one of the key cogs in Stans' former recruiting network in his office, only to be told that he doesn't drink, and basically blackballed by the booster ever since(who apparently had every intention of that from the start -- as it's something really trivial to get your panties in a wad about).

Ray is asking people for help. Read what you've been told in this thread by at least 2 people that were involved in Stans' network. Ray enlisted Richard Williams' help on day 1 to try to get that support structure up and kicking. That's why RW has been around our program so much basically from the day Ray arrived. Yet, they have done little besides spin their wheels -- because the REAL players still support Stansbury over MSU. If you don't believe it, go read Geezer's rant on the pack about the football reseating -- and you'll see, clearly, that "supporting MSU" has been put on the backburner by a bunch of that crowd. And it's been sabotage city, either intentional or incidental, ever since.

This approach frigging pisses me off about our fanbase. Literally the EXACT same thing that happened early with Cohen -- and he STILL doesn't have 100% of the old money on his side to this day... We never learn from past mistakes -- we just repeat them directly thereafter -- that's one reason that we're stuck in the stone age 30 years behind the SEC for the most part.

It makes me almost want to go ahead and move past Ray -- because our history shows that the "next" guy will get the support to be successful on the front end -- while the "Ray/Cohen" coach has to win BIG BEFORE he gets any support. In basketball particularly, that's a tail wagging the dog uphill proposition.

[Coach34]

Hold on a second here. It's not the responsibility of the money to seek out Ray. It is the other way around. How hard is it for Ray to get a list of the top names and approach them, take them out to dinner, invite them to practice, invite them into the locker room, play a round of golf with them, pick up the phone and shoot the shit with them, enjoy a nice bottle of 18 year old scotch and a few cuban cigars with them? Make friends. Maybe not all of them want to be buddy buddy with Ray but I'm sure more do than don't. People want to support Ray and part of Ray's job is to schmooze with the money. He signed up for it. Calipari has to do this. Donovan has to do this. Every fu*king successful coach in college basketball has to do this. Is Ray making the effort here? I doubt it. Instead what is happening is the absolute worst way to go about making friends and that's blasting everyone and calling them Stansbury lovers. Is Ray too proud to ask people for help? Does he expect million dollar checks to just be given to him without him having to do anything for it? Wine and dine people. Make them feel loved and they will love back. PLAY THE FU*KING GAME

Dude- wtf????? Dawggeezer told the world in this thread that Ray and Richard Williams have been out trying to drum up support- and they are being told to **** off by the Stands supporters. What dont you get about that? Shit- I'm surprised Miskelly's still has a commercial run during basketball telecasts.

[Homedawg]

Hold on a second here. It's not the responsibility of the money to seek out Ray. It is the other way around. How hard is it for Ray to get a list of the top names and approach them, take them out to dinner, invite them to practice, invite them into the locker room, play a round of golf with them, pick up the phone and shoot the shit with them, enjoy a nice bottle of 18 year old scotch and a few cuban cigars with them? Make friends. Maybe not all of them want to be buddy buddy with Ray but I'm sure more do than don't. People want to support Ray and part of Ray's job is to schmooze with the money. He signed up for it. Calipari has to do this. Donovan has to do this. Every fu*king successful coach in college basketball has to do this. Is Ray making the effort here? I doubt it. Instead what is happening is the absolute worst way to go about making friends and that's blasting everyone and calling them Stansbury lovers. Is Ray too proud to ask people for help? Does he expect million dollar checks to just be given to him without him having to do anything for it? Wine and dine people. Make them feel loved and they will love back. PLAY THE FU*KING GAME

Well u have no clue what you are talking about. Yea he has sat around eating Bon bons and made no effort to talk to the people we need. None.***

[HailState39110]

You think Ray hasn't tried to do all of that? He's been met with a cold shoulder by a booster structure that(STILL) supports the previous coach.

It's funny that you bring up the alcohol thing -- because I heard a story early on about how he tried to have a beer with one of the key cogs in Stans' former recruiting network in his office, only to be told that he doesn't drink, and basically blackballed by the booster ever since(who apparently had every intention of that from the start -- as it's something really trivial to get your panties in a wad about).

Ray is asking people for help. Read what you've been told in this thread by at least 2 people that were involved in Stans' network. Ray enlisted Richard Williams' help on day 1 to try to get that support structure up and kicking. That's why RW has been around our program so much basically from the day Ray arrived. Yet, they have done little besides spin their wheels -- because the REAL players still support Stansbury over MSU. If you don't believe it, go read Geezer's rant on the pack about the football reseating -- and you'll see, clearly, that "supporting MSU" has been put on the backburner by a bunch of that crowd. And it's been sabotage city, either intentional or incidental, ever since.

This approach frigging pisses me off about our fanbase. Literally the EXACT same thing that happened early with Cohen -- and he STILL doesn't have 100% of the old money on his side to this day... We never learn from past mistakes -- we just repeat them directly thereafter -- that's one reason that we're stuck in the stone age 30 years behind the SEC for the most part.

It makes me almost want to go ahead and move past Ray -- because our history shows that the "next" guy will get the support to be successful on the front end -- while the "Ray/Cohen" coach has to win BIG BEFORE he gets any support. In basketball particularly, that's a tail wagging the dog uphill proposition.

Do you think it would have helped if our AD would have called multiple people in the network and asked who they would like as the next MSU basketball coach? I know for a fact Byrne made several calls to the top 25% of boosters to ask who they wanted as the next baseball coach when we hired Cohen . I talked to a couple who told me they received a personal phone call from Byrne during the baseball search . I think Stricklin did this hire on his own so I bet a few people felt like their input or financial support wasn't needed. As mentioned in a earlier post, you've got to play the game with the cigar boys

[Dawg61]

It sounds to me like our money list is out of date. MSU has new alumni qualify every year that might want to take the place of those that are in this older regime that don't want to move on yet. Just cause the previous group doesn't want to be involved doesn't mean the new group doesn't. Once the older crowd sees that MSU is doing just fine without them then they might decide they are being trivial and realize why they got involved in the first place a long time ago. This is just another excuse being given for Ray. MSU is the largest school in Mississippi and the alumni base grows every single year. There's new avenues not being explored yet.

[engie]

Do you think it would have helped if our AD would have called multiple people in the network and asked who they would like as the next MSU basketball coach? I know for a fact Byrne made several calls to the top 25% of boosters to ask who they wanted as the next baseball coach when we hired Cohen . I talked to a couple who told me they received a personal phone call from Byrne during the baseball search . I think Stricklin did this hire on his own so I bet a few people felt like their input or financial support wasn't needed. As mentioned in a earlier post, you've got to play the game with the cigar boys

All that's fine. I can understand them being pissed. What I don't understand is them punishing RAY for an issue they have with Stricklin. Want to hold money you normally donate to the university for basketball for a little while? Fine. But holding the money you normally spend in recruiting has NOTHING AT ALL to do with Strick and everything to do with Ray.

[I seen it dawg]

This opens up aGAIN what has happened to our basketball program. The sorry bastards care more about a guy that turned our program to a disappointment at the end more than they care about the program, hence the school, itself. Stains is fn gone so fn get over it. Coastdog and all of your ilk need to get on board with the school and the program and start pulling in the same direction. If you sorry ****ers can't do that then stay away forever. Then go to hell.

Eta: disappointment is the nicest way I could put it.

[Homedawg]

I truly wonder why cdl is even on a Msu board. Other than the obvious to bitch about rs being gone. Shouldn't you be on the gig'em board? It's pretty obvious your allegiance to Msu once was apparently great, and now you don't care about US, just your hurt feelings and the previous staff. The good news is they have a hell of a bonfire it college station every year. Boy are you going to be bitter when rs doesn't get that job when it opens. I feel sorry for bitter people like you. Truly, I do.

[Dawg61]

All that's fine. I can understand them being pissed. What I don't understand is them punishing RAY for an issue they have with Stricklin. Want to hold money you normally donate to the university for basketball for a little while? Fine. But holding the money you normally spend in recruiting has NOTHING AT ALL to do with Strick and everything to do with Ray.

Ray is just collateral damage. He is Stricklin's choice. They are showing Stricklin they don't appreciate the way he went about the hire. The best way for them to do this is by not going to the games and not giving money. I personally wish they would take the high road here but Stricklin fu*ked up. No two ways about it. They are showing him they don't appreciate it. If he needs them now then he needed them then and he should of played the game and tickled some balls. Why does Stricklin get off here for y'all? He's the Athletic Director. We heard what Byrne did when Cohen got hired. Why would Stricklin go on his own here? It doesn't make any sense and now he and us are seeing what happens when you do that which most of us new was a very bad idea at the time and still is today.

[Homedawg]

Ray is just collateral damage. He is Stricklin's choice. They are showing Stricklin they don't appreciate the way he went about the hire. The best way for them to do this is by not going to the games and not giving money. I personally wish they would take the high road here but Stricklin fu*ked up. No two ways about it. They are showing him they don't appreciate it. If he needs them now then he needed them then and he should of played the game and tickled some balls. Why does Stricklin get off here for y'all? He's the Athletic Director. We heard what Byrne did when Cohen got hired. Why would Stricklin go on his own here? It doesn't make any sense and now he and us are seeing what happens when you do that which most of us new was a very bad idea at the time and still is today.

That's right, we should have let him completely bury it in the ground! Oh he already did that. Of course those pissed that we didn't hire Kenny Payne will be pissed again when we don't hire him again if rr gets fired. Pretty safe he will still be available. Amazing how the great Payne is still in Lexington, he should be 100 wins into a great head coaching career by now.

[Dawg61]

That's right, we should have let him completely bury it in the ground! Oh he already did that. Of course those pissed that we didn't hire Kenny Payne will be pissed again when we don't hire him again if rr gets fired. Pretty safe he will still be available. Amazing how the great Payne is still in Lexington, he should be 100 wins into a great head coaching career by now.

SS doesn't have to hire Kenny Payne to keep everyone happy. Payne was like 10th on my wish list maybe even lower. SS just can't go rogue or solo on the mission. Talk to people and tell them KP is on the list and that you appreciate their involvement and will consider it and then give them a follow up after RR gets hired. Idk the exact best way I just know the way it was done wasn't.

[smootness]

Ray is just collateral damage. He is Stricklin's choice. They are showing Stricklin they don't appreciate the way he went about the hire. The best way for them to do this is by not going to the games and not giving money. I personally wish they would take the high road here but Stricklin fu*ked up. No two ways about it. They are showing him they don't appreciate it. If he needs them now then he needed them then and he should of played the game and tickled some balls. Why does Stricklin get off here for y'all? He's the Athletic Director. We heard what Byrne did when Cohen got hired. Why would Stricklin go on his own here? It doesn't make any sense and now he and us are seeing what happens when you do that which most of us new was a very bad idea at the time and still is today.

Then they are absolute and utter morons. I bet we'll be able to hire us a real nice coach next when we haven't won anything AND there is no support from the boosters. I'm sure they'll love to hear from Ray and others who know the inner workings of college basketball how they shunned our head coach. Bet people will be lining up for miles for this job***

[HancockCountyDog]

Right. Huge tenn alums, that bleed orange and sing rocky top, that helped pearl buy players at UT now help him buy players at auburn. Yep.***

Yes we are talking about much different networks. The networks that Im talking about actually decide where kids go. Y'all are talking about bagmen and shit that when it comes to college basketball recruiting, those networks don't get you shit.

Stans network wasn't just MSU supporters - he was dialed into the "agents/advisors/pimps/aau coaches" that actually decide where these kids go. Those connections are ones that Stans has. Same with Pearl. Same with Cal. Same with Donovan, and the LSU coach.

Its not a matter of the MSU faithful stepping up and giving Ray "everything" he needs. Its a matter of Ray having the connection in the group I identified above. If you don't have that connection - you are ****ed and you have to recruit on your belly sort of speak. You have to find players that you can get without having to play the game. Find players on the International area, or guys that the big schools and connected coaches miss on.

Pearl's network has nothing to do with UT. It has nothing to do with AU. The connections he has is with people that trust him and people he has proven to make money for. If y'all think that the only thing holding back MSU from dominating in recruiting is simply a bagman you simply have no idea how basketball recruiting works now a days. None.

The days of Justin Reed and Mario Austin receiving money in mailboxes and getting cherry red escalades and that is how decisions are made is over. There is no gym bag with 30K in it. There is no tractor in the yard. If you don't have a connect - you can't even get in the conversation.

[HancockCountyDog]

This is insanity. Why in the world would a network follow a coach around?

Because its not a college network. Its an AAU/pimp/advisor network. Those guys are loyal to coaches not the college. The college coach funds these networks not college bagmen.

[shannondawg]

You think Ray hasn't tried to do all of that? He's been met with a cold shoulder by a booster structure that(STILL) supports the previous coach.

It's funny that you bring up the alcohol thing -- because I heard a story early on about how he tried to have a beer with one of the key cogs in Stans' former recruiting network in his office, only to be told that he doesn't drink, and basically blackballed by the booster ever since(who apparently had every intention of that from the start -- as it's something really trivial to get your panties in a wad about).

Ray is asking people for help. Read what you've been told in this thread by at least 2 people that were involved in Stans' network. Ray enlisted Richard Williams' help on day 1 to try to get that support structure up and kicking. That's why RW has been around our program so much basically from the day Ray arrived. Yet, they have done little besides spin their wheels -- because the REAL players still support Stansbury over MSU. If you don't believe it, go read Geezer's rant on the pack about the football reseating -- and you'll see, clearly, that "supporting MSU" has been put on the backburner by a bunch of that crowd. And it's been sabotage city, either intentional or incidental, ever since.

This approach frigging pisses me off about our fanbase. Literally the EXACT same thing that happened early with Cohen -- and he STILL doesn't have 100% of the old money on his side to this day... We never learn from past mistakes -- we just repeat them directly thereafter -- that's one reason that we're stuck in the stone age 30 years behind the SEC for the most part.

It makes me almost want to go ahead and move past Ray -- because our history shows that the "next" guy will get the support to be successful on the front end -- while the "Ray/Cohen" coach has to win BIG BEFORE he gets any support. In basketball particularly, that's a tail wagging the dog uphill proposition.

Well he hasn't called me, maybe I ain't on the list. but my name is on the walls in several places around his office. Hell, he even tried to take my seats for his wife and would have if I hadn't called Scott and told him about it..

[Homedawg]

Yes we are talking about much different networks. The networks that Im talking about actually decide where kids go. Y'all are talking about bagmen and shit that when it comes to college basketball recruiting, those networks don't get you shit.

Stans network wasn't just MSU supporters - he was dialed into the "agents/advisors/pimps/aau coaches" that actually decide where these kids go. Those connections are ones that Stans has. Same with Pearl. Same with Cal. Same with Donovan, and the LSU coach.

Its not a matter of the MSU faithful stepping up and giving Ray "everything" he needs. Its a matter of Ray having the connection in the group I identified above. If you don't have that connection - you are ****ed and you have to recruit on your belly sort of speak. You have to find players that you can get without having to play the game. Find players on the International area, or guys that the big schools and connected coaches miss on.

Pearl's network has nothing to do with UT. It has nothing to do with AU. The connections he has is with people that trust him and people he has proven to make money for. If y'all think that the only thing holding back MSU from dominating in recruiting is simply a bagman you simply have no idea how basketball recruiting works now a days. None.

The days of Justin Reed and Mario Austin receiving money in mailboxes and getting cherry red escalades and that is how decisions are made is over. There is no gym bag with 30K in it. There is no tractor in the yard. If you don't have a connect - you can't even get in the conversation.

Thanks for clarification. Yes, rick ray is in charge of creating that, no question. However, without the help of others any network that you speak of is worthless. And we are cutting our nose off dispute our face due to egos involved.

[HancockCountyDog]

Thanks for clarification. Yes, rick ray is in charge of creating that, no question. However, without the help of others any network that you speak of is worthless. And we are cutting our nose off dispute our face due to egos involved.

Honestly - its my understanding that the young coaches that are dialed into this network - trained under coaches that are dialed in - Pastner at Memphis - learned under Cal; Johnny Jones learned under Dale Brown - and has a LSU football network that he is using;

Same with Anthony Grant, and several coaches in the Big 10. Now, this isn't the only way to win. I don't think Bo Ryan plays that game at all. I know the Michigan coach does, same with OSU.

If the Seal boys walked into Ray's office and said, you have a blank check from our family - go get em, he couldn't land Newman. Ray isn't connected with Nike or any elite AAU groups. These guys aren't looking for a one time score. They all think they are going to have shoe deals and they want to have that from the jump.

Let me give an example - Im not saying there was a lawyer in Jackson that was an advisor to Rhodes or Ellis. Let me repeat, Im not saying that. Im not saying he had the last name of a famous Jackson burger. Im not saying that he made the call to go pro based on a first round promise given by the Celtics or that he was the one that took care of Rhodes while at MSU. This did not happen.

How Ray can get connected with people that aren't this guy, things will get better for him

[shannondawg]

You think Ray hasn't tried to do all of that? He's been met with a cold shoulder by a booster structure that(STILL) supports the previous coach.

It's funny that you bring up the alcohol thing -- because I heard a story early on about how he tried to have a beer with one of the key cogs in Stans' former recruiting network in his office, only to be told that he doesn't drink, and basically blackballed by the booster ever since(who apparently had every intention of that from the start -- as it's something really trivial to get your panties in a wad about).

Ray is asking people for help. Read what you've been told in this thread by at least 2 people that were involved in Stans' network. Ray enlisted Richard Williams' help on day 1 to try to get that support structure up and kicking. That's why RW has been around our program so much basically from the day Ray arrived. Yet, they have done little besides spin their wheels -- because the REAL players still support Stansbury over MSU. If you don't believe it, go read Geezer's rant on the pack about the football reseating -- and you'll see, clearly, that "supporting MSU" has been put on the backburner by a bunch of that crowd. And it's been sabotage city, either intentional or incidental, ever since.

This approach frigging pisses me off about our fanbase. Literally the EXACT same thing that happened early with Cohen -- and he STILL doesn't have 100% of the old money on his side to this day... We never learn from past mistakes -- we just repeat them directly thereafter -- that's one reason that we're stuck in the stone age 30 years behind the SEC for the most part.

It makes me almost want to go ahead and move past Ray -- because our history shows that the "next" guy will get the support to be successful on the front end -- while the "Ray/Cohen" coach has to win BIG BEFORE he gets any support. In basketball particularly, that's a tail wagging the dog uphill proposition.

Well he hasn't called me, maybe I ain't on the list. but my name is on the walls in several places around his office. Hell, he even tried to take my seats for his wife and would have if I hadn't called Scott and told him about it..

[Dawg61]

Well he hasn't called me, maybe I ain't on the list. but my name is on the walls in several places around his office. Hell, he even tried to take my seats for his wife and would have if I hadn't called Scott and told him about it..

And there you have it. Can't complain about those not helping when we aren't asking the right people.

[I seen it dawg]

Well he hasn't called me, maybe I ain't on the list. but my name is on the walls in several places around his office. Hell, he even tried to take my seats for his wife and would have if I hadn't called Scott and told him about it..

Ahhhh so the truth comes out.....

[starkvegasdawg]

First off, I'm not, nor have I ever been a cigar boy...or anything close to it. I'm not important enough to consult whether or not they put charmin or northern in the bathrooms. What I am is a MSU alumni and fan. I want every team we have to win. From football to freaking frisbee golf. With that being said I was not ecstatic when Ray was hired and was sort of sad to see RS leave although I admit our BB program was abysmal when he did leave. Therefore I understood why that move was made. As stated earlier I don't have any connections so I can't verify if one thing said in this thread is true about the inner workings of the AD as it pertains to recruiting. However, if it is true then it is sad that this is what is going on. The focus should be about winning and not unzipping our pants and sticking a ruler down there to see who's bigger. Second, I'm not too sure the place to discuss this level of dirty laundry is a public message board. Whether or not this goes on everywhere is irrelevant. You don't see seven page threads detailing it and almost naming names.

[Dawg61]

Who on the outside is going to harm us worse than we harm ourselves currently? A public forum is the BEST place for this to be seen. Those that can fix this shit need to see it.

[maroonmania]

Honestly - its my understanding that the young coaches that are dialed into this network - trained under coaches that are dialed in - Pastner at Memphis - learned under Cal; Johnny Jones learned under Dale Brown - and has a LSU football network that he is using;

Same with Anthony Grant, and several coaches in the Big 10. Now, this isn't the only way to win. I don't think Bo Ryan plays that game at all. I know the Michigan coach does, same with OSU.

If the Seal boys walked into Ray's office and said, you have a blank check from our family - go get em, he couldn't land Newman. Ray isn't connected with Nike or any elite AAU groups. These guys aren't looking for a one time score. They all think they are going to have shoe deals and they want to have that from the jump.

Let me give an example - Im not saying there was a lawyer in Jackson that was an advisor to Rhodes or Ellis. Let me repeat, Im not saying that. Im not saying he had the last name of a famous Jackson burger. Im not saying that he made the call to go pro based on a first round promise given by the Celtics or that he was the one that took care of Rhodes while at MSU. This did not happen.

How Ray can get connected with people that aren't this guy, things will get better for him

Oh I fully believe you. The ONLY reason that people wanted Kenny Payne over a guy like Ray is because everyone knew he WAS tied into to the type of network you speak of. It certainly was not because he had proven anything as an actual coach. But Stricklin doesn't want us playing that game and apparently wanted to "clean things up" even from what Stans had going in that area so, IMO, we are screwed in basketball and might as well focus our attention on football and baseball. I agree that you can't get any of the high profile players without playing the game you speak. Yes, its sickening, but its reality. In my view AAU has ruined college basketball and in a lot of ways basketball in general because fundamentals of the game like blocking out, free throw shooting, defending and passing are not even being taught in these circuits from what I can see.

[starkvegasdawg]

Who on the outside is going to harm us worse than we harm ourselves currently? A public forum is the BEST place for this to be seen. Those that can fix this shit need to see it.
I would just hate to see the letters LOI thrown on top of things. Maybe what has been talked about here is not even remotely close enough to do that. What I do know is that the quieter people are the better things are. This thread has a lot of squeaky wheels in it and we know what happens to them. Just an overly cautious nothing to see here better safe than sorry kind of person.
Besides, those that can fix this have to be well aware that it is going on. If not, then I have my doubts as to whether or not they can fix it.

[coastdoglover]

Engie, you and your buddy Coach are full of shit. I still buy football tickets and haven't changed one damn thing in my will. If I did, that is my prerogative. The real issue in this deal is we have a coach who doesn't have enough sense to recruit as HancockCountydog has articulated to you dumb asses and if he has reached out to any supporters, it sure as hell isn't any I know. I give that credit to the AD who you would think after being at Kentucky would understand how the system works. You idiots make excuses for this coach and yet belittled the last one at every turn. We did any awful job with Booker at Moss Point and have no chance at Newman either. Sure they are highly recruited, but we haven't even dented the lists of a top recruit in three years. We can't even get in a conversation. Stricklin blew it. I know it, and most others know it as well. You folks always imply our former coach was dirty but last I checked, he was never implicated once in anything illegal. He worked his ass off recruiting and that is why he had the success he had. Shannondawg has given more to MSU than any of you so-called experts so I believe when he posts something, it is accurate. We have a great practice facility now because of people like him and the Mize family. All football recruits rave about our facilities, do we ever hear any of Ray's recruits say anything? No, because most of them are not being recruited by anybody else. Nobody wants MSU to win more than these folks and for that matter me. When we decide to quit deemphasizing basketball, most folks will still be here. But until someone steps up and shows most of us there is hope, why should we do anything but wonder what the hell was the AD thinking? Just because coach and Engie got what they wanted doesn't make it look any better. When we get to.500 in the SEC as coach says we will this year, then maybe folks will have some hope. Until then, the excuses will keep on flowing and MSU will have given basketball over to our friends up North in this state. That is the ultimate sad part.

[Dawg61]

Donnie Tyndall has one goal for his Tennessee team this next year. To make the NCAA tournament. It's their only purpose. We are just hoping we can be in the running for the NIT in year 3.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/vols-coach-tyndall-no-time-194038644--ncaab.html

[shannondawg]

Engie, you and your buddy Coach are full of shit. I still buy football tickets and haven't changed one damn thing in my will. If I did, that is my prerogative. The real issue in this deal is we have a coach who doesn't have enough sense to recruit as HancockCountydog has articulated to you dumb asses and if he has reached out to any supporters, it sure as hell isn't any I know. I give that credit to the AD who you would think after being at Kentucky would understand how the system works. You idiots make excuses for this coach and yet belittled the last one at every turn. We did any awful job with Booker at Moss Point and have no chance at Newman either. Sure they are highly recruited, but we haven't even dented the lists of a top recruit in three years. We can't even get in a conversation. Stricklin blew it. I know it, and most others know it as well. You folks always imply our former coach was dirty but last I checked, he was never implicated once in anything illegal. He worked his ass off recruiting and that is why he had the success he had. Shannondawg has given more to MSU than any of you so-called experts so I believe when he posts something, it is accurate. We have a great practice facility now because of people like him and the Mize family. All football recruits rave about our facilities, do we ever hear any of Ray's recruits say anything? No, because most of them are not being recruited by anybody else. Nobody wants MSU to win more than these folks and for that matter me. When we decide to quit deemphasizing basketball, most folks will still be here. But until someone steps up and shows most of us there is hope, why should we do anything but wonder what the hell was the AD thinking? Just because coach and Engie got what they wanted doesn't make it look any better. When we get to.500 in the SEC as coach says we will this year, then maybe folks will have some hope. Until then, the excuses will keep on flowing and MSU will have given basketball over to our friends up North in this state. That is the ultimate sad part.

That pretty well sum it up CDL.

I had one long time employee in the ad tell me, that Ray approached him about recruiting, and it became evident real quick that he had absolutely no clue as to how to recruit or how to go about getting any backing from the alumni base. He also said that a asst coach told him the well was empty and they had no where to go to get any leverage.

Anybody on here curious how Pollard wound up at Houston?

[engie]

Anybody on here curious how Pollard wound up at Houston?

Not really. He isn't that good, we said he wasn't that good, and where he ended up basically proves that he isn't. Pollard < or at best = Zuppardo and Daniels.

[engie]

Donnie Tyndall has one goal for his Tennessee team this next year. To make the NCAA tournament. It's their only purpose. We are just hoping we can be in the running for the NIT in year 3.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/vols-coach-tyndall-no-time-194038644--ncaab.html

Yeah -- he took over a strikingly similar situation**

I'm sure the NCAAs isn't the goal of our coaches and players either**

[engie]

Engie, you and your buddy Coach are full of shit. I still buy football tickets and haven't changed one damn thing in my will.
Then why were you whining about it on the internet? If nothing else, the fact that your seats got bumped because you chose to invest less than 0.5% of the total amount you've allegedly got willed to MSU(thus making you threaten to strike them from the will) in order to secure your same seats speaks volumes about where you are at with the whole situation. Just taking up your mantle alongside Polk against the evil MSU athletics dept that's trying to move forward into the current century...


The real issue in this deal is we have a coach who doesn't have enough sense to recruit as HancockCountydog has articulated to you dumb asses and if he has reached out to any supporters, it sure as hell isn't any I know.
You just gave the background on Richard and his group earlier in the post. Is that not Ray's doing? So, you are just going to sit here and talk out of both sides of your mouth on this, I guess?


I give that credit to the AD who you would think after being at Kentucky would understand how the system works. You idiots make excuses for this coach and yet belittled the last one at every turn.
That's bullshit. We think this coach deserves a fair shake -- nothing more. Thusfar, he hasn't gotten it.


We did any awful job with Booker at Moss Point and have no chance at Newman either. Sure they are highly recruited, but we haven't even dented the lists of a top recruit in three years. We can't even get in a conversation.
Do I need to start running through all the teams in the Sweet16 every year without 5*s? Just because he isn't doing it exactly how your boy did it doesn't mean that his method is wrong or that it's impossible to have success with.


Stricklin blew it. I know it, and most others know it as well.
And most here believe that you would have said that even if we had hired John Wooden. A BUNCH of your crowd SURE AS HECK said it when we hired John Cohen. Where are those people at these days?

In fact, where is your boy Kenny Payne coaching at these days?


You folks always imply our former coach was dirty but last I checked, he was never implicated once in anything illegal. He worked his ass off recruiting and that is why he had the success he had.
I'm just repeating what you've told us many times before. If you didn't want people understanding how Stans' played the game, you should have thought long and hard about not making it public knowledge. YOU did that. And you did it more than once.


Shannondawg has given more to MSU than any of you so-called experts so I believe when he posts something, it is accurate. We have a great practice facility now because of people like him and the Mize family.
And it's appreciated. No one has said nor implied otherwise.


All football recruits rave about our facilities, do we ever hear any of Ray's recruits say anything? No, because most of them are not being recruited by anybody else.
In what world do you think this statement makes sense? It just lays down your agenda. I guess hurt feelings don't need actual "reasons" to stay hurt. So, these kids that "aren't being recruited by anyone else" in basketball don't "say anything" about our facilities? That statement actually made sense to you?


Nobody wants MSU to win more than these folks and for that matter me. When we decide to quit deemphasizing basketball, most folks will still be here.
How did this sport get "deemphasized" in the first place? And please list for me the ways in which MSU has "deemphasized" this sport? NO -- YOU have deemphasized the sport -- and jumped off the bandwagon because we had to endure a little hardship that YOUR BOY did more than his part in creating for us.


But until someone steps up and shows most of us there is hope, why should we do anything but wonder what the hell was the AD thinking?
MSU -- the only school in the SEC where the tail has to wag the dog. "WELL, MAYBE we will care and invest IF WE WIN FIRST"...


Just because coach and Engie got what they wanted doesn't make it look any better. When we get to.500 in the SEC as coach says we will this year, then maybe folks will have some hope. Until then, the excuses will keep on flowing and MSU will have given basketball over to our friends up North in this state. That is the ultimate sad part.
Yep -- it's all theirs. Yet they still haven't beaten us in the Hump but once in 15 years. I guess baseball is all theirs too, huh? AND that's probably Cohen's fault as well in your eyes, I suppose?

[Coach34]

Who gives a shit where Pollard went? He's not very good

[engie]

I guess if you live long enough, you get to become exactly what you once despised...

For those that don't know Dawgbreeze = coastdoglover.

http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?12993-The-myth-of-the-amp-quot-cigarboys-amp-quot
The irony of all ironies...

Mark Keenum was not their choice and in my opinion, that is good. Let's hope with our new leadership, this nightmare can come to an end and I think that people will see that the cigarboys need MSU more than we need them.

http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?5919-LT-tried-to-pull-a-power-play-and-stay-in-control

And thankfully, there are people who support MSU who want to excel in everything, including athletics, but since that doesn't affect your family, I guess none of us should want those things either. Hell, let's keep LT forever and then we can be mediocre and this board can have a ball bitching and moaning until the end of this century.

[shannondawg]

Who gives a shit where Pollard went? He's not very good

Actually its a pretty interesting story, that tells a lot about the ends and outs of being in the loop recruiting wise.

But with all your contacts you probably know the story.

"The truth? You don't want to know the ****ing truth!"

[Homedawg]

Actually its a pretty interesting story, that tells a lot about the ends and outs of being in the loop recruiting wise.

But with all your contacts you probably know the story.

"The truth? You don't want to know the ****ing truth!"

It's pretty obvious you have the "scoop" on what happened with pollard and are dying to tell it. Go ahead. What happened? I'm sure someone on here wants to hear the ends and outs of this great player and person. I for one, don't care.

[starkvegasdawg]

There is no way all of this back and forth and ends well for the university and athletic teams. Regardless of which side of this you fall on I think it is time to end this. There is no way, if this continues, it has a positive outcome. World class pissing contests between two elements of a fan base involving shady recruiting and how to play the game can only be tantamount to all of us pouring gasoline on an already burning fire.

[Coach34]

I guess if you live long enough, you get to become exactly what you once despised...

For those that don't know Dawgbreeze = coastdoglover.

http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?12993-The-myth-of-the-amp-quot-cigarboys-amp-quot
The irony of all ironies...


http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?5919-LT-tried-to-pull-a-power-play-and-stay-in-control


ouch- nice work Engie

[Coach34]

I really don't care about Pollard's recruitment. He wasn't a need for us. Hopefully he does well at a lower tier school playing a lower level schedule

[tcdog70]

it is pretty obvious the only game Ray is playing is "SOLITAIRE". He doesn't have a clue. Meanwhile our Rivals are signing Coaches that hit the ground running. I know the Stansbury haters think that by supporting Ray it hurts RS and makes their AGENDA look better. They are ashamed that their Rant was foolish and don't want to admit they are Idiots when it come to Basketball. Look Stans is gone and Ray was a bigger error than Croom. Just quit making excuses for Ray. The MSU people that I know that have met Rick Ray in behind the scenes meeting have come away shaking their Heads.

I guess the 34 Clan thinks that patting Ray on the Head helps their "Stansbury Is the Devil" rant. As every day passes the Ray Hire looks worse and worse, as we sink lower and lower.

[shannondawg]

You know I am retired, have been for about 7 or 8 years, but even so, I don't have near the time to waste on a message board or the inclination for that matter.

Which brings me to the question, how the hell does someone like Engie who apparently have all the time in the world to not only park on the boards, but spend the time researching the archivies for quotes, statistics that he does. You on your parents dole, the govt's or independently wealthy and don't have to work or have a very lenient boss?

I know coach gets up early , loads his rubber machines and back home in time for moderating the board and counting his quarters.

[smootness]

it is pretty obvious the only game Ray is playing is "SOLITAIRE". He doesn't have a clue. Meanwhile our Rivals are signing Coaches that hit the ground running. I know the Stansbury haters think that by supporting Ray it hurts RS and makes their AGENDA look better. They are ashamed that their Rant was foolish and don't want to admit they are Idiots when it come to Basketball. Look Stans is gone and Ray was a bigger error than Croom. Just quit making excuses for Ray. The MSU people that I know that have met Rick Ray in behind the scenes meeting have come away shaking their Heads.

I guess the 34 Clan thinks that patting Ray on the Head helps their "Stansbury Is the Devil" rant. As every day passes the Ray Hire looks worse and worse, as we sink lower and lower.

The heck are you talking about? I was as big a Stans supporter as there was. Nothing Ray does has any impact on Stans.

I'm not making excuses. He was legitimately handed a terrible situation, and every rational person knew it would take a few years before real progress was seen. Evidently even some of those have forgotten and are now jumping off the bandwagon.

[Homedawg]

it is pretty obvious the only game Ray is playing is "SOLITAIRE". He doesn't have a clue. Meanwhile our Rivals are signing Coaches that hit the ground running. I know the Stansbury haters think that by supporting Ray it hurts RS and makes their AGENDA look better. They are ashamed that their Rant was foolish and don't want to admit they are Idiots when it come to Basketball. Look Stans is gone and Ray was a bigger error than Croom. Just quit making excuses for Ray. The MSU people that I know that have met Rick Ray in behind the scenes meeting have come away shaking their Heads.

I guess the 34 Clan thinks that patting Ray on the Head helps their "Stansbury Is the Devil" rant. As every day passes the Ray Hire looks worse and worse, as we sink lower and lower.

I wasn't a Stan's hater. I thought he was an underachiever with the talent that we had. Which of course he assembled, kudos to him. However, we had no discipline on or off the court and thought his time had run out. As seen by his last team that was unbelievably talented and we couldn't make the tourney. What has caused me to bash him more though is the Stan's fanatics that absolutely refuse admit that he, Stan's, has any fault in the mess that's here now. He has a lot of responsibility in it. I'm not a rick ray lover. But I've put myself in his shoes and would hope that people would give him a fair chance to prove He could do the job considering the shit storm he took over. Rome wasn't built in a day out of a sandcastle. Everyone wants us to win, well most everyone. Some would bask in their own glory to watch us fail while beating their chests, screaming I told you so. I just think the guy deserves a shot. That's all. And 2 years and one recruiting class on the floor doesn't constitute a fair shot in my eyes.

[thf24]

The heck are you talking about? I was as big a Stans supporter as there was. Nothing Ray does has any impact on Stans.

Same here. tc, you have every right to your stance on Ray and you may very well be correct in the end. But this thing you have about anyone who supports Ray, or just wants to give him a fair chance, doing so out of spite for Stansbury is beyond insane. There MAY be a shred of truth there in one or two cases who were critical of Stansbury while he was our coach, but I doubt it.

[Dawg61]

Tennessee's situation is every bit as bad as MSU when Ray took over. Read the article and you'd agree. Don't give me BS of "they just went to the sweet 16". That was with Counzo and then he took his entire signing class and bolted to Cali and said a bunch of terrible shit about how Tennessee treated him. He left Tennessee in worse shape than what we had left after Stansbury got let go. Tyndall took over a team that had four players and zero signees. And a very bad blackeye from Counzo bitching out and saying he was treated poorly.

[Homedawg]

Tennessee's situation is every bit as bad as MSU when Ray took over. Read the article and you'd agree. Don't give me BS of "they just went to the sweet 16". That was with Counzo and then he took his entire signing class and bolted to Cali and said a bunch of terrible shit about how Tennessee treated him. He left Tennessee in worse shape than what we had left after Stansbury got let go. Tyndall took over a team that had four players and zero signees. And a very bad blackeye from Counzo bitching out and saying he was treated poorly.
Let's just assume they are equal situations. So Tyndall should be canned after 2 years?

[Dawg61]

Let's just assume they are equal situations. So Tyndall should be canned after 2 years?

It'd be 3 years after this year and if Tyndall did the job Ray has done the answer is yes. He's off to a much much much better start though.

[MarketingBully01]

It'd be 3 years after this year and if Tyndall did the job Ray has done the answer is yes. He's off to a much much much better start though.

Agreed Dawg61 but I don't think you will have to worry about that as I believe he will be successful. I hope we return back to the tournament but I am thinking we are staunchly back in the Bob Boyd era which Stricklin is much more to blame in this then Ray could ever be blamed. It really is a big mix of Stans and Stricklin with a sprinkling of Ray thrown in.

[HancockCountyDog]

My biggest expectation this year is for a recruit that Ray actually committed and signed to look like a legit SEC player. So far he has been relying on guys that were either already signed or on the roster.

In year 3 I expect to see some major contributions from guys that Ray actually committed. I hope like hell it happens. I hate when pretty much every game after January is meaningless.

At least this year we can follow recruiting since we should be getting the bear treatment by the media.

[engie]

My biggest expectation this year is for a recruit that Ray actually committed and signed to look like a legit SEC player. So far he has been relying on guys that were either already signed or on the roster.

In year 3 I expect to see some major contributions from guys that Ray actually committed. I hope like hell it happens. I hate when pretty much every game after January is meaningless.

Agreed. And I think we get that. This will be "Ray's first real team" at MSU -- with Zuppardo, Daniels, Ndoye, etc. I thought Ready looked like a pretty capable SEC player at times last year, was just too timid with his shooting and got injured too often...

[shannondawg]

How many times on this board does it read, give Ray a chance. He is getting a chance and nothing you nerds can do or say will shorten or lengthen his stay.

And most of the people on here saying give him a chance and help him , do nothing and want somebody else to step up or blame them for not stepping up.

[PMDawg]

Same with Bender too.

that's not true. He was coming to State until the McDonald's game. That game changed everything for him.

[engie]

How many times on this board does it read, give Ray a chance. He is getting a chance and nothing you nerds can do or say will shorten or lengthen his stay.
Then what do people gain by bitching about it incessantly?

And what does it help when 95% of your overall posts are in fierce defense of our former coach that is partially responsible for the position we are currently in? HE IS GONE -- and as of next year -- is no longer in any way responsible for the position the basketball program is in. So, at that point, it will be time for everyone to let it go. It really already is, when discussing the future.

[PMDawg]

You know I am retired, have been for about 7 or 8 years, but even so, I don't have near the time to waste on a message board or the inclination for that matter.

Which brings me to the question, how the hell does someone like Engie who apparently have all the time in the world to not only park on the boards, but spend the time researching the archivies for quotes, statistics that he does. You on your parents dole, the govt's or independently wealthy and don't have to work or have a very lenient boss?

I know coach gets up early , loads his rubber machines and back home in time for moderating the board and counting his quarters.

LOL - Elitedawgs Remembers...

[Goat from MSU]

Engie what do you do for a living ,and did you go to State. I have wonder that to.I am not being funny or mean either just wondering. Like smoot did not even go to State but he loves the Dawgs anyway.
You know I am retired, have been for about 7 or 8 years, but even so, I don't have near the time to waste on a message board or the inclination for that matter.

Which brings me to the question, how the hell does someone like Engie who apparently have all the time in the world to not only park on the boards, but spend the time researching the archivies for quotes, statistics that he does. You on your parents dole, the govt's or independently wealthy and don't have to work or have a very lenient boss?

I know coach gets up early , loads his rubber machines and back home in time for moderating the board and counting his quarters.

[coastdoglover]

silence is deafening. Truth of the matter is probably Engie and Coach are the same person. If not, they have the same agenda. I love they way they post things that are not true. I have never once said Stans cheated in anything and if he did, he sure wasn't implicated by the NCAA. That speaks for itself. I find this comical that the same people who say some of us long time supporters of the program have quit supporting basketball when for over 10 years coach went on diatribe of insults and statistics to belittle Rick Stansbury. Why don't you do a little research on those Engie? The facts are that you got what you politicked for a decade and it has been a huge failure and now it is a whole different criteria of judging the coaching and program. Meanwhile the stands are empty and it is easier to blame folks who can see what is happening and regardless of how bad you folks thought Stansbury was, he did have MSU compete and people felt like we always had a chance to win. I haven't seen that yet in 3 years and for you so-called stat experts, the SEC has been far more atrocious at the bottom the last three years and we still can't get to.500. It has been debated enough, but Engie, we are waiting for your answers to the question posed by Goat.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

CDL, i was a fan of stans but it was time for a change or for him to at least change several things.

That said, knowing now what i do, i take him back in a heartbeat. Id rather sweat making the dance with a bunch of primma donnas than to watch us fight to win 12 games in front of dozens of people.

[fishwater99]

Same here. tc, you have every right to your stance on Ray and you may very well be correct in the end. But this thing you have about anyone who supports Ray, or just wants to give him a fair chance, doing so out of spite for Stansbury is beyond insane. There MAY be a shred of truth there in one or two cases who were critical of Stansbury while he was our coach, but I doubt it.

I was not a Stans supporter and I am trying to give Ray a fair shot. He gets this year and next to make the NCAAT once or he needs to go.
IMO, Stricklin made a bad hire and was in way over his head. If we fire Ray, I have no confidence in our current AD to make a better hire than he did with Ray.

[tcdog70]

Same here. tc, you have every right to your stance on Ray and you may very well be correct in the end. But this thing you have about anyone who supports Ray, or just wants to give him a fair chance, doing so out of spite for Stansbury is beyond insane. There MAY be a shred of truth there in one or two cases who were critical of Stansbury while he was our coach, but I doubt it.

I said 34's Clan-is that You or Smoot? I agree Ray should stand alone-nothing to do with Stansbury. Hell, i was critical of RS. But I didn't want Him fired. I wanted some changes, but He should have had one more year. That would have given Him a chance and Strick a chance to figure out Who our next coach could Be. What we have now is several levels below the dreaded "Dumpster Fire".

And Smoot you probably think Saban is an underachiever because He has lost two games in a Row. At Miss. State to have a chance to win every game you play is not under achieving. And I never watched a Stans' Team that I didn't think we Had a chance to win.

[Dawg61]

I was not a Stans supporter and I am trying to give Ray a fair shot. He gets this year and next to make the NCAAT once or he needs to go.
IMO, Stricklin made a bad hire and was in way over his head. If we fire Ray, I have no confidence in our current AD to make a better hire than he did with Ray.

If we fire Ray I want Stricklin to immediately go on a 3 month vacation in the Dominican Republic or Venezuela and set up a baseball recruiting base. And never touch the phone or internet during his trip.

[HancockCountyDog]

CDL, i was a fan of stans but it was time for a change or for him to at least change several things.

That said, knowing now what i do, i take him back in a heartbeat. Id rather sweat making the dance with a bunch of primma donnas than to watch us fight to win 12 games in front of dozens of people.

All I known is that everyone that said they would rather watch disciplined basketball, played the right way by guys that actually tried their best to win as opposed to a bunch of talented players not giving it their all was lying.

I went to a game last season and it was sad. You know what is worse than hate for your basketball program? Apathy. Everyone that said they just wanted to see guys play the 'right way' and were tired of attitude problems and team cancers. Well the attendance simply doesn't bare that out.

People want a winner. At the end of the day - they simply want to watch their favorite team win basketball games. Love him or hate him, Stans did that more often than not. Sure he underachieved several years. That isn't really debateable. The problem is what would you rather watch?

Team A: A talented bunch that should win 26 games that instead wins 21 games and misses the tourney;

Team B: A not talented bunch that would be hard pressed to win 10 games, actually win 14.

Its easy to say Team B, the problem is that last season simply didn't prove that.
What

[smootness]

And Smoot you probably think Saban is an underachiever because He has lost two games in a Row. At Miss. State to have a chance to win every game you play is not under achieving. And I never watched a Stans' Team that I didn't think we Had a chance to win.

I have no interest in getting back into a debate over whether or not it was time for Stans to go. My point is that in no way am I a 'Stans hater' who is still looking for reasons to justify his firing.

I believed it was time for him to go, others didn't, fine. But Ray is the coach now, and what he does has nothing to do with Stans anymore. I am not supporting him as a way of sticking to an anti-Stans agenda. I am supporting him because he is the Mississippi State head coach, and I believe he can still get it done and that he hasn't had enough time for us to discover whether his plan will ultimately work or not.

The fact that there are a lot of so-called State fans who believe supporting the current coach is only in an effort to denigrate the former one is ridiculous. He is the State coach; I would think most fans would support him for that simple fact alone.

[MarketingBully01]

I was not a Stans supporter and I am trying to give Ray a fair shot. He gets this year and next to make the NCAAT once or he needs to go.
IMO, Stricklin made a bad hire and was in way over his head. If we fire Ray, I have no confidence in our current AD to make a better hire than he did with Ray.

Good post Fish. This is how I feel. Hopefully Ray has a good year this year because if he doesn't it may very well unite the fan base but in a very negative way against him.

[engie]

Engie what do you do for a living ,and did you go to State. I have wonder that to.I am not being funny or mean either just wondering. Like smoot did not even go to State but he loves the Dawgs anyway.

Yes, I went to State for mechanical engineering and a minor in math -- That's all I'm saying -- as this board handle and some of the hints I've given about my past is already enough to figure out who I am. Coach and several others here already know me. I'm not trying to have message board life and the real world run together in the way that a number of people here have -- and I'm not worrying about "concerned citizens" calling employers, etc when I get the urge to needle Rebels or even other Bulldogs online. I'm excessively ADD -- and tend to hyperfocus and go overboard on tasks. As such, I create alot of dead time at work by knocking tasks out quickly. Enough free time that I run two small businesses myself on the side. I'm sure no one would have guessed that.

If you are good at this message board debate thing -- and if you are efficient at surrounding your opinion with numbers and facts in a way that people constantly stoop to insulting you instead of even actually attempting to debate you -- you must be a loser with no life. Yep -- got me...

[engie]

silence is deafening. Truth of the matter is probably Engie and Coach are the same person. If not, they have the same agenda.
Still waiting on you to show me what my "agenda" is. Your deflection is weak.


I love they way they post things that are not true. I have never once said Stans cheated in anything and if he did, he sure wasn't implicated by the NCAA. That speaks for itself.
Yet you've openly talked about Stans' system, what players cost, etc for YEARS now. Hilarious.


I find this comical that the same people who say some of us long time supporters of the program have quit supporting basketball when for over 10 years coach went on diatribe of insults and statistics to belittle Rick Stansbury. Why don't you do a little research on those Engie?
What does coach's position have to do with me? Or the fact that a bunch of you aren't supporting the basketball team now -- and have become what you just 5 years ago professed to hate on SPS? Fact is, you can't find much from me until it was OBVIOUS that Stansbury had lost control the last year or two.


The facts are that you got what you politicked for a decade and it has been a huge failure and now it is a whole different criteria of judging the coaching and program.
I didn't politic for anything. I was ready for Stans to go and I'm glad he did. Too bad he dug us a tremendous hole and left us with nothing. I haven't "changed my criteria for judging the program" and no one else has either. I'm just giving the new guy a fair chance to dig himself out of the hellhole your boy left him in. That starts this year -- and if we aren't an NIT+ team(that brings back everything next year), I'm going to be jumping off the bandwagon with everyone else.

How many damn times do I have to spell this out for you before you understand it? But, NO, it's just engie pushing coach's evil Stans' agenda. That must be it**


Meanwhile the stands are empty and it is easier to blame folks who can see what is happening and regardless of how bad you folks thought Stansbury was, he did have MSU compete and people felt like we always had a chance to win. I haven't seen that yet in 3 years and for you so-called stat experts, the SEC has been far more atrocious at the bottom the last three years and we still can't get to.500. It has been debated enough, but Engie, we are waiting for your answers to the question posed by Goat.
So, you are admitting that it was empty the last year under Stansbury too?

I'm yet to see you show me how this is actually any different than you blue-hairs being up in arms about Cohen and not Raffo....

[Coach34]

CoastGeezer has already showed his hand in this thread- nothing more to add to him. And then Engie busting his balls was hilarious.

[shannondawg]

I seriously doubt that any game under Stansbury had less butts in the seats than Ray's best game. But I haven't finished all my tasks in lightening like speed to be able to go back and check attendance, but I feel that Engie can.

And Coach you can say it, but Engie busting CDL balls is simply not true, just like a lot of your posts.

You may be a lot of things, but being truthful is not your strong suit when it comes to basketball and your agenda.

"not having an agenda" being the biggest one lie of all.

[shannondawg]

While at it, exactly what have you an Engie done to support Ray? Other than being message board gurus.

[Goat from MSU]

Like I said I was asking not to be funny .Now I know why you use facts and stats so much it is your background. I went to State for Poultry Sc. and minor in history . But now live out of state but owned a house in Starkville . I have a daughter who is interested in your field of study ,I rather her go to State than Cornell. I may have questions in future for you on that .
Yes, I went to State for mechanical engineering and a minor in math -- That's all I'm saying -- as this board handle and some of the hints I've given about my past is already enough to figure out who I am. Coach and several others here already know me. I'm not trying to have message board life and the real world run together in the way that a number of people here have -- and I'm not worrying about "concerned citizens" calling employers, etc when I get the urge to needle Rebels or even other Bulldogs online. I'm excessively ADD -- and tend to hyperfocus and go overboard on tasks. As such, I create alot of dead time at work by knocking tasks out quickly. Enough free time that I run two small businesses myself on the side. I'm sure no one would have guessed that.

If you are good at this message board debate thing -- and if you are efficient at surrounding your opinion with numbers and facts in a way that people constantly stoop to insulting you instead of even actually attempting to debate you -- you must be a loser with no life. Yep -- got me...

[tcdog70]

Yes, I went to State for mechanical engineering and a minor in math -- That's all I'm saying -- as this board handle and some of the hints I've given about my past is already enough to figure out who I am. Coach and several others here already know me. I'm not trying to have message board life and the real world run together in the way that a number of people here have -- and I'm not worrying about "concerned citizens" calling employers, etc when I get the urge to needle Rebels or even other Bulldogs online. I'm excessively ADD -- and tend to hyperfocus and go overboard on tasks. As such, I create alot of dead time at work by knocking tasks out quickly. Enough free time that I run two small businesses myself on the side. I'm sure no one would have guessed that.

If you are good at this message board debate thing -- and if you are efficient at surrounding your opinion with numbers and facts in a way that people constantly stoop to insulting you instead of even actually attempting to debate you -- you must be a loser with no life. Yep -- got me...

Do you actually have a degree? have you actually ever attended a basketball Game. Have you ever done anything for MSU besides post obscure stats on a Message board. Glad to hear how lightin quick and efficient you are.

[Dawg61]

Is the hole Stansbury left bigger than the one Pearl stepped into? I wonder how he's doing building a roster and signing players since he isn't even allowed to recruit players himself yet? Let's look.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/06/bruce_pearls_1st_recruiting_cl.html

[starkvegasdawg]

I'm shocked. I figured this thread would have been locked by early this morning.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

Like I said I was asking not to be funny .Now I know why you use facts and stats so much it is your background. I went to State for Poultry Sc. and minor in history . But now live out of state but owned a house in Starkville . I have a daughter who is interested in your field of study ,I rather her go to State than Cornell. I may have questions in future for you on that .
Tell your daughter to do chemical, more money and mechanical ****ing blows.

[Coach34]

I seriously doubt that any game under Stansbury had less butts in the seats than Ray's best game. But I haven't finished all my tasks in lightening like speed to be able to go back and check attendance, but I feel that Engie can.

And Coach you can say it, but Engie busting CDL balls is simply not true, just like a lot of your posts.

You may be a lot of things, but being truthful is not your strong suit when it comes to basketball and your agenda.

"not having an agenda" being the biggest one lie of all.

Oh it was true alright. Everybody can see it. Just because you dont like the retort doesnt mean it isnt true. It's in plain black and white.

[KB21]

If we fire Ray I want Stricklin to immediately go on a 3 month vacation in the Dominican Republic or Venezuela and set up a baseball recruiting base. And never touch the phone or internet during his trip.

Yeah. That way we can let Erick Dampier and David Rula hire Kenny Payne, who can't coach a lick but he can certainly cheat to get players.

[shannondawg]

Oh it was true alright. Everybody can see it. Just because you dont like the retort doesnt mean it isnt true. It's in plain black and white.

Mighty big of you to speak for everybody. That's another one.

[hacker]

Mighty big of you to speak for everybody. That's another one.

Well. As an outsider, with no skin in the game, who has basketball at the bottom of his priority list, who avoids basketball threads but accidentally clicked this one.. it's so obvious that coach, engie, smoot are the ones making sense.

Occam's razor: they think Ray deserves a third year (wow, three whole years?) to prove himself OR engie & coach are the same, jobless, uneducated person who didn't graduate from State and have been carrying out an anti-Stansbury agenda to drag down MSU for years?

[Goat from MSU]

I differ with engie alot on this board ,but he is a fellow Dawg . I am not going to run him down on his professional life and no one else should not either . He did answer my question.
Do you actually have a degree? have you actually ever attended a basketball Game. Have you ever done anything for MSU besides post obscure stats on a Message board. Glad to hear how lightin quick and efficient you are.

[tcdog70]

I differ with engie alot on this board ,but he is a fellow Dawg . I am not going to run him down on his professional life and no one else should not either . He did answer my question.

shit, I'm not running him down, just curious if He had A Degree.why not answer my question,Is it a secret ? He is so up on the Basketball team, I also wondered does he attend games.

[I seen it dawg]

This looks like a damn 6pk thread. Just bitching with no substance. Ray gonna be here 2 more yrs like it or not. May as well ignore it for 2 yrs or get on board. It is what it is and nobody is bringing anything to the table that hasn't had this same stupid ass thread done already. Closed it's life is over.