On this whole bats/seams/TD Ameritrade problem.....

[Goat Holder]

Am I the only one who can see that TD Ameritrade is the problem? Not the bats, not the balls.

Yes, home runs are down overall from the gorilla ball years, but they should be. The new bats are safer, and more resemble MLB bats, so that's good. Guys still hit home runs too. Dudy Noble, Swayze, all of them are similar. Hoover is a little bit tougher, but home runs still are hit there. Hardly any balls go out at TD Ameritrade. THAT is the problem. Changing the seams won't help that. You can't change a constant to help a variable. That's getting it backwards. When we change the seams, there will still be less HRs in TD Ameritrade. So I don't know why people are saying to change the bats or the balls, it makes zero sense.

The problem lies in Omaha. They are going to have to change something, or they may risk losing the CWS. What a stupid, stupid, decision. How were the prevailing winds overlooked? Why didn't they orient the park similar to Rosenblatt? They really better consider moving the fences in, but I don't see how you can do that. Hoover is only 3' shorter than TDA, but 10' longer in the power alleys. Yet you can still hit a home run there. You simply can't at TDA unless you absolutely crush it down the the lines.

Bottom line, it's not the bats, and it's not the balls. We have teams winning titles who really don't deserve them.

[Thrill1]

The NCAA signed a deal with Omaha to keep the CWS at TDAP until 2035, so it's not going anywhere. Now, could they pull in the fences eventually? Maybe but I doubt it.

Not sure what you've been told about the new ball coming in 2015, but it will definitely help offense. In terms of home runs, who knows. Flatter seams (minor league ball) means a tighter wound ball, which will translate to a livelier ball. This was the quickest & cheapest way to help offset the BBCOR bats.

[HoopsDawg]

The bat is a problem. This has been covered ad nauseum. The NCAA and college baseball went too far over-correcting a problem and now the manufacturer's have huge inventory of these dead bats. Part of it stemmed from the old rosenblatt and video game like numbers when the wind was blowing out + steriods + juiced up ball and bat. But the bat is still a problem. Numbers are way down across the country and it's not just Omaha. If you square up a 90 mph fastball as a college hitter it's supposed to leave the yard.

[Goat Holder]

Numbers are way down across the country

Duh? I already said that in my post.


and it's not just Omaha.

It's moreso at Omaha. That's why changing the bats won't help TD Ameritrade, numbers will still be down there, compared to other parks. The only option is moving the fences in or moving to another park.

[Goat Holder]

The NCAA signed a deal with Omaha to keep the CWS at TDAP until 2035, so it's not going anywhere.

Didn't know this, I guess that ends the debate, until 2035 anyways.


Not sure what you've been told about the new ball coming in 2015, but it will definitely help offense. In terms of home runs, who knows. Flatter seams (minor league ball) means a tighter wound ball, which will translate to a livelier ball. This was the quickest & cheapest way to help offset the BBCOR bats.

I agree. All of that is obvious. My point is, helping the offense won't help Omaha. I see no problem with the college game EXCEPT in Omaha, at TD Ameritrade. It's a different game up there.

[RougeDawg]

The NCAA signed a deal with Omaha to keep the CWS at TDAP until 2035, so it's not going anywhere. Now, could they pull in the fences eventually? Maybe but I doubt it.

Not sure what you've been told about the new ball coming in 2015, but it will definitely help offense. In terms of home runs, who knows. Flatter seams (minor league ball) means a tighter wound ball, which will translate to a livelier ball. This was the quickest & cheapest way to help offset the BBCOR bats.

Let me add that flatter seams will also mean less bite on offspeed pitches translating into less break on pitches and more hanging offspeed pitches. Hanging offspeed pitches are the easiest pitches in baseball to hit for a Homerun. Pitcher has already provided the backspin for carry, all you need to do it make solid contact.

[Pioneer Dawg]

I'm one to say the new balls might add ~10-15% to where we were Pre-BBCOR. I don't think it's going to be big huge strides in offensive output.

[KB21]

There are park factors at every level of the sport. Even in the majors, some of the parks are simply harder to hit in than others. Old Fulton County Stadium used to be called the launching pad. When they built Turner Field, they built it to be more pitcher friendly.

This is just a park factor that teams have to adjust to.

[HoopsDawg]

It's moreso at Omaha. That's why changing the bats won't help TD Ameritrade, numbers will still be down there, compared to other parks. The only option is moving the fences in or moving to another park.

This is an obvious point as well. And very few people are happy with the new bats. Most coaches aren't. They overreacted.

[AROB44]

What about adopting the LSU method.....steroids? Won them several CWS and made Skip Bertman a f'ing genius.

[Johnson85]

There are park factors at every level of the sport. Even in the majors, some of the parks are simply harder to hit in than others. Old Fulton County Stadium used to be called the launching pad. When they built Turner Field, they built it to be more pitcher friendly.

This is just a park factor that teams have to adjust to.

I think it's a little different to have the championship played every single year at a stadium that is somewhat of an outlier. I know in baseball there will always be teams built for the regular season and teams built for the post season, but this just seems extreme. I don't have a huge problem with it as I think it benefits us because building a team to win at Dudy Noble seems to be pretty much how you would build a team to win in the SEC Tourney and then the CWS. Just not sure it's good.

[Goat Holder]

Agree. Hoover or Trustmark is an 'adjustment'. TDA is a completely different world. Making changes that affect the entire game doesn't help anything in regards to TDA. It's not a sliding scale.

[engie]

I'm one to say the new balls might add ~10-15% to where we were Pre-BBCOR. I don't think it's going to be big huge strides in offensive output.

Based on what?

60-85% of pre-BBCOR distance according to every study I've seen thusfar...

[engie]

About the only way I see to "fix" TDAmeritrade that isn't half ass is to lower the field and build the stadium down to it, essentially "moving the fences in" without putting a gap between the fans and the fence. Also may be possible with moving the plate further from the backstop, or some combination of the two.

It's going to be a $5-10mil fix IMO. Not expecting it to be cheap, and if it is, it will be unbecoming of the palace that the park was built as... Probably $2mil+ just in the drainage system under that park...

[Pioneer Dawg]

Based on what?

60-85% of pre-BBCOR distance according to every study I've seen thusfar...

I'm not talking distance but overall offensive output. I don't think we'll see close to an offensive jump that Ole Miss experienced this year.

[engie]

I'm not talking distance but overall offensive output. I don't think we'll see close to an offensive jump that Ole Miss experienced this year.

So, you are actually saying that you expect us to be significantly worse at the plate next year -- and the new balls will be a crutch, thus us showing "minimal improvement"?

We'll be significantly better offensively. There were a crapload of balls that Collins alone hit that are going to go out next year.

[Pioneer Dawg]

So, you are actually saying that you expect us to be significantly worse at the plate next year -- and the new balls will be a crutch, thus us showing "minimal improvement"?

What the **** is your problem lately. I'm not saying shit about us Engine, I was talking college baseball as a whole.

But since you want to get into it, no I don't think MSU will see an Ole Miss jump either, since they are part of college baseball. I don't think we will be SIGNIFICANTLY better next year, no… We'll probably be around the same when compared to where we finished in the league offensively this year.

ETA so before you ignorantly act like you don't know what I'm saying..

1. I think our overall numbers will be a little better, but not drastically, because the new ball won't make THAT big of a difference.

2. I think this slight jump will be spread out over college baseball therefore we finish about where we did this year in the offensive categories.

[messageboardsuperhero]

So, you are actually saying that you expect us to be significantly worse at the plate next year -- and the new balls will be a crutch, thus us showing "minimal improvement"?

We'll be significantly better offensively. There were a crapload of balls that Collins alone hit that are going to go out next year.

Speaking of Collins, if his start to the summer in the Cape is any indicator- he could be primed for a big year.

It's nice to look at the Cape Code League statistical leaderboard and see our freshman catcher at the top with bunch of rising seniors/juniors. I think his blocking will get much better as well with the extra experience and Lindgren moving on. Collins is going to be a star at some point, IMO.

[engie]

What the **** is your problem lately. I'm not saying shit about us Engine, I was talking college baseball as a whole.
My problem in this instance is that you can't make up your mind on what you want to say and state it clearly. "I don't think WE'LL see close to the jump..." "Where WE were pre-BBCOR" = YOU TALKING ABOUT US in my mind. I gave you a chance to clarify and you said "we" and "Ole Miss" again, making it VERY DAMN EASY to surmise that YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT MSU AND NOT THE COUNTRY AS A WHOLE.


But since you want to get into it, no I don't think MSU will see an Ole Miss jump either, since they are part of college baseball. I don't think we will be SIGNIFICANTLY better next year, no… We'll probably be around the same when compared to where we finished in the league offensively this year.
Really going out on a limb there.


ETA so before you ignorantly act like you don't know what I'm saying..

1. I think our overall numbers will be a little better, but not drastically, because the new ball won't make THAT big of a difference.
So, we'll just "barely" be better despite a ball that is supposed to add 15-25 feet? A statistics guy like yourself that is arguing against EVERY statistic given on the new ball thusfar?


2. I think this slight jump will be spread out over college baseball therefore we finish about where we did this year in the offensive categories.
So, you ultimately don't think we improve at all? "Since we're going to rank about where we did this year". Please tell me how I'm misreading this? If you think that, just say it. 17.6 homers or fewer for MSU next year with the new balls per Will James math which only applies when convenient**

[engie]

Speaking of Collins, if his start to the summer in the Cape is any indicator- he could be primed for a big year.

It's nice to look at the Cape Code League statistical leaderboard and see our freshman catcher at the top with bunch of rising seniors/juniors. I think his blocking will get much better as well with the extra experience and Lindgren moving on. Collins is going to be a star at some point, IMO.

Agreed. Next year on him totally breaking out IMO...

Sure wish Humphreys was getting ABs this summer...

[messageboardsuperhero]

Agreed. Next year on him totally breaking out IMO...

Sure wish Humphreys was getting ABs this summer...

That does suck. I had extremely high hopes for Humphreys when it came out that he was going to SLO to work with Chal Fanning. Hopefully Fanning can work his magic with Hudson and Tatum- those are two huge pieces for next year.

[scottycameron]

Let me add that flatter seams will also mean less bite on offspeed pitches translating into less break on pitches and more hanging offspeed pitches. Hanging offspeed pitches are the easiest pitches in baseball to hit for a Homerun. Pitcher has already provided the backspin for carry, all you need to do it make solid contact.

Whoa, big daddy. I ain't the smartest dude in the world but I do have a degree in physics. Physics is pretty simple. What you said is so wrong in so many ways.
Not that I disagree with you outside of that.

[Dawg61]

Can't they just block the wind or redirect it somehow? I agree that TD Ameritrade is a huge problem with how the wind knocks down everything so just block the wind or build a retractable roof somehow. They fu*ked up and now they need to pay to fix it. Bats are AWFUL too. Go MLB wood.

[justwin]

This is the best post I've ever read of yours. Yes, that piece of shit amusement park is the problem. Not the bats or balls or none of this other nonsense that consumes college baseball talk. If MSU plays in Rosenblatt last year, we're NCs by a long shot.


Am I the only one who can see that TD Ameritrade is the problem? Not the bats, not the balls.

Yes, home runs are down overall from the gorilla ball years, but they should be. The new bats are safer, and more resemble MLB bats, so that's good. Guys still hit home runs too. Dudy Noble, Swayze, all of them are similar. Hoover is a little bit tougher, but home runs still are hit there. Hardly any balls go out at TD Ameritrade. THAT is the problem. Changing the seams won't help that. You can't change a constant to help a variable. That's getting it backwards. When we change the seams, there will still be less HRs in TD Ameritrade. So I don't know why people are saying to change the bats or the balls, it makes zero sense.

The problem lies in Omaha. They are going to have to change something, or they may risk losing the CWS. What a stupid, stupid, decision. How were the prevailing winds overlooked? Why didn't they orient the park similar to Rosenblatt? They really better consider moving the fences in, but I don't see how you can do that. Hoover is only 3' shorter than TDA, but 10' longer in the power alleys. Yet you can still hit a home run there. You simply can't at TDA unless you absolutely crush it down the the lines.

Bottom line, it's not the bats, and it's not the balls. We have teams winning titles who really don't deserve them.

[Todd4State]

Speaking of Collins, if his start to the summer in the Cape is any indicator- he could be primed for a big year.

It's nice to look at the Cape Code League statistical leaderboard and see our freshman catcher at the top with bunch of rising seniors/juniors. I think his blocking will get much better as well with the extra experience and Lindgren moving on. Collins is going to be a star at some point, IMO.

Most of Collins blocking problem was Lindgren. I'm not worried about Collins defense at all at this point. I think he is going to have a chance to play for the Team USA college team next year. Adam Frazier was the last player that we had to do that.

[Todd4State]

Can't they just block the wind or redirect it somehow? I agree that TD Ameritrade is a huge problem with how the wind knocks down everything so just block the wind or build a retractable roof somehow. They fu*ked up and now they need to pay to fix it. Bats are AWFUL too. Go MLB wood.

Having been there, I'm not sure that it is just the wind to be honest with you. It seems to me like the stadium was built in a pit and it's weird because you can see the wind from the flags blowing, but I sure couldn't feel it. It's kind of weird. The best way to hit a home run there is to do what Renfroe did- hit a line drive that is high enough to get over the fence, but not too high so that it gets knocked down by the wind and caught in the huge outfield. Wes Rea almost hit one the exact same way that Renfroe did- except the guy for Oregon State made an unreal catch.

[engie]

Bump to unhijack the golf thread. http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?17147-Old-Waverly-to-become-home-of-MSU-Golf/page2

[TheRef]

Bump to unhijack the golf thread. http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?17147-Old-Waverly-to-become-home-of-MSU-Golf/page2

Thanks, engie