Friday the 13th baseball notes from Cohen

[Todd4State]

Most of this info is from David Murray's story on Genespage. I'll hit the high points. Most of this has been discussed on here and it looks like Cohen agrees with most of us.

Cohen said that we need to start to get 90-100 IP out of our starting pitchers.

Mentioned these three as early favorites for the weekend rotation- Fitts, Ross, and Dakota Hudson.

Said that the bullpen will be reworked. Mentioned Jacob Billingsley as an early candidate for closer. Said that Billingsley has a wipe out breaking ball.

As far as the Tommy John guys- said that Paul Young and John Marc Shelly are ahead of schedule and are both doing very well, and Shelly is starting to throw a baseball. Will Cox's surgery was a little more extensive but is where he needs to be.

As far as hitting- he expects us to have more power in the future. Said the challenge is to get better at hitting with power without sacrificing speed and defense. He still expects us to defend at a high level.

Mentioned Gavin Collins and his fast start in the Cape.

Said Wes Rea going to Maryland is going to be a good change on scenery for him and that Wes is going to get a lot of attention in the fall.

Jacob Robson had a surgery on a nerve in his elbow and could start playing baseball in two weeks. It was unclear as to whether or not he would play summer baseball or not though. Reid Humphreys had surgery on a nerve in his elbow and will be out for much of the summer (2-4 weeks), but should be back in the fall.

Mentioned Daniel Garner hitting 3 home runs in three games.

Dudy-Noble Field. Cohen allegedly has renderings of Dudy-Noble Field and the proposed renovation. No word on an official announcement, but for the first time that I have seen, there was a date mentioned as far as when the new stadium would be built- which was 2017. Murray also said that 2016 was a possibility as well if there is a large donation that comes forth. I'm not sure if he means construction will start in 2017 or if he means the stadium will be ready by then, so we're looking at 2018 at the latest.

[bulldogcountry1]

Seems like the best way to get stadium money flowing would be to release some of these renderings and get the excitement building.

[MsStateBaseball]

Dave Murray did ask about a list of signees and Cohen sat and thought about it and said three times, no we won't release those. He wavered a little like he was going to explain why but didn't. I think they are still excited about Paul Young and what he could be.

[MsStateBaseball]

I do think Stricklin fully understands our baseball program and we will spend 30 million plus getting it done. We make money off baseball.

[messageboardsuperhero]

I absolutely hate that Humphreys won't get many ABs this summer- that's a tough break. We need him big time next year.

I also wish we could move Ross back to the pen. Dakota Hudson really needs to step up- either him, Sexton, Tatum, or a quickly healed Paul Young need to complete our rotation. And don't forget about Laster. He will be a factor when it's all said and done.

[CadaverDawg]

I absolutely hate that Humphreys won't get many ABs this summer- that's a tough break. We need him big time next year.

I also wish we could move Ross back to the pen. Dakota Hudson really needs to step up- either him, Sexton, Tatum, or a quickly healed Paul Young need to complete our rotation. And don't forget about Laster. He will be a factor when it's all said and done.

Yep, I am hoping that Laster will take Ross's spot and he can move back to the pen to eat key innings.

[maroonmania]

I absolutely hate that Humphreys won't get many ABs this summer- that's a tough break. We need him big time next year.

I also wish we could move Ross back to the pen. Dakota Hudson really needs to step up- either him, Sexton, Tatum, or a quickly healed Paul Young need to complete our rotation. And don't forget about Laster. He will be a factor when it's all said and done.

I do think Ross would be best served in the pen because he is physically frail to pitch so many innings as a starter. He was pretty much worthless in the postseason this year after so many innings during the season, and postseason is when we want our guys to hopefully be at the top of their game. Would be nice if we could find 3 SEC starters out of Fitts, Hudson, Sexton, Laster, Brown or even Young if he's ahead of schedule. Some of the true freshmen coming in might also be candidates but under Cohen we have not ever really had a true freshman show up as effective against the SEC as a true freshman even for a Sunday starter. Well Stratton did fairly well as a freshman but that was out of necessity. I do think there is a JUCO transfer or two that might get in the mix. To me losing Lindgren and Holder both make it even more important that we have a long middle reliever like Ross can be.

[CadaverDawg]

I know it has been discussed somewhere, but tell me a little more about Billingsley. Is he a RHP or LHP? Incoming freshman?

[Todd4State]

Dave Murray did ask about a list of signees and Cohen sat and thought about it and said three times, no we won't release those. He wavered a little like he was going to explain why but didn't. I think they are still excited about Paul Young and what he could be.

It's the same reason why we don't release the names of our preferred walk-ons in football. The NCAA doesn't allow it. If we announced it, we would know who is and isn't a walk-on- and sometimes that may be a guy that is an UA All-American that is on a full ride academically. Not announcing that player could cause a storm of "is that All-American guy really that good? Is he coming to school? He's gone. Blah, blah, blah. It's just different in baseball, and really there is no reason for us to know or not know who is walking on or not. We can only announce players that are receiving athletic aid.

We always know who is coming as fans anyway- literally the last "surprise" recruit that we have ever had was Matthew Britton.

Murray needs to get over not having a nice neat list put out by the athletic dept. It just isn't going to happen becuase it's not in our or the University's best interests.

[CadaverDawg]

Another thing, and I might be the only one who thinks this....but Cohen is going to have to start allowing our talented freshmen to play. And I'm not talking about a few garbage time at bats, I'm talking starting a game and finishing it every now and then. There are several impact freshmen around e country, and we have some on our bench every year that don't get to get out there and contribute, or most importantly they don't get to make mistakes and get better by learning from them. There was zero sense in DHing guys like Vickerson or Armstrong when we have Garner's and Humphreys' on the bench. I'm worried that if all these freshmen start realizing that they don't get to truly contribute until the year before they sign pro, they may not be as willing to choose us in the recruiting process. Hopefully that doesn't happen, and I trust that Cohen is telling these guys before hand because they all seem to have good attitudes....but you always hear rumblings of a Garner or Humphreys being pissed, and I sure would hate to lose a stud player simply out of stubbornness.

I'm a big Cohen fan, so I'm not bashing him or anything. But if I had to come up with something I wish he'd change, that would be one of them. Because now we still have 2 studs in Garner and Humphreys that have basically no experience vs live SEC pitching, and that's not what we need heading into their Sophomore years in my opinion. Especially when their Junior years could very easily be their last on campus. I just want to see us start getting a full 2.5-3 years out of our best talent, that's all.

[Todd4State]

I absolutely hate that Humphreys won't get many ABs this summer- that's a tough break. We need him big time next year.

I also wish we could move Ross back to the pen. Dakota Hudson really needs to step up- either him, Sexton, Tatum, or a quickly healed Paul Young need to complete our rotation. And don't forget about Laster. He will be a factor when it's all said and done.

I agree about Laster. Reading between the lines, I think they are expecting Laster to be the Girodo/Lindgren although Cohen didn't specifically say it.

I bet Ross struggles as a starter and we end up moving him back to the bullpen. Just my thought. I hope it doesn't happen that way, but just my gut.

The guys that are being mentioned is all set in sand. What I hope happens is that it's Fitts/Laster, Hudson, and then Tatum.

[Todd4State]

I do think Ross would be best served in the pen because he is physically frail to pitch so many innings as a starter. He was pretty much worthless in the postseason this year after so many innings during the season, and postseason is when we want our guys to hopefully be at the top of their game. Would be nice if we could find 3 SEC starters out of Fitts, Hudson, Sexton, Laster, Brown or even Young if he's ahead of schedule. Some of the true freshmen coming in might also be candidates but under Cohen we have not ever really had a true freshman show up as effective against the SEC as a true freshman even for a Sunday starter. Well Stratton did fairly well as a freshman but that was out of necessity. I do think there is a JUCO transfer or two that might get in the mix. To me losing Lindgren and Holder both make it even more important that we have a long middle reliever like Ross can be.

Stratton did well relative to the rest of the pitching staff that year. I think his ERA was like 4 or 5 that season. Don't want to look at the pitching stats to verify.

[Todd4State]

I know it has been discussed somewhere, but tell me a little more about Billingsley. Is he a RHP or LHP? Incoming freshman?

RHP from Magnolia Heights that redshirted last year. He didn't make Dandy Dozen before his senior year, and then he comes out and starts throwing in the low 90's. Great find by Butch.

[CadaverDawg]

I agree about Laster. Reading between the lines, I think they are expecting Laster to be the Girodo/Lindgren although Cohen didn't specifically say it.

I bet Ross struggles as a starter and we end up moving him back to the bullpen. Just my thought. I hope it doesn't happen that way, but just my gut.

The guys that are being mentioned is all set in sand. What I hope happens is that it's Fitts/Laster, Hudson, and then Tatum.

If Hudson AND Tatum can work their way into the rotation, we will be in great shape. And even better shape the next season with 2 stud starters with SEC starting experience. This is my hope too.

[CadaverDawg]

RHP from Magnolia Heights that redshirted last year. He didn't make Dandy Dozen before his senior year, and then he comes out and starts throwing in the low 90's. Great find by Butch.

Awesome. We need some good over the top RHP's to replace Holder and Bracewell next year out of the pen.....many got frustrated with Bracewell, but that guy was huge for us the last two seasons when we needed to simply eat a bunch of innings against a right handed lineup.

[TheRef]

RHP from Magnolia Heights that redshirted last year. He didn't make Dandy Dozen before his senior year, and then he comes out and starts throwing in the low 90's. Great find by Butch.

Saw him in the MAIS Championship Series against Washington in Greenville. Good movement on his pitches and pretty good speed. Got beat up a good bit during the game. But I'm sure Butch has gotten him a lot better since in one year of work.

[Todd4State]

Another thing, and I might be the only one who thinks this....but Cohen is going to have to start allowing our talented freshmen to play. And I'm not talking about a few garbage time at bats, I'm talking starting a game and finishing it every now and then. There are several impact freshmen around e country, and we have some on our bench every year that don't get to get out there and contribute, or most importantly they don't get to make mistakes and get better by learning from them. There was zero sense in DHing guys like Vickerson or Armstrong when we have Garner's and Humphreys' on the bench. I'm worried that if all these freshmen start realizing that they don't get to truly contribute until the year before they sign pro, they may not be as willing to choose us in the recruiting process. Hopefully that doesn't happen, and I trust that Cohen is telling these guys before hand because they all seem to have good attitudes....but you always hear rumblings of a Garner or Humphreys being pissed, and I sure would hate to lose a stud player simply out of stubbornness.

I'm a big Cohen fan, so I'm not bashing him or anything. But if I had to come up with something I wish he'd change, that would be one of them. Because now we still have 2 studs in Garner and Humphreys that have basically no experience vs live SEC pitching, and that's not what we need heading into their Sophomore years in my opinion. Especially when their Junior years could very easily be their last on campus. I just want to see us start getting a full 2.5-3 years out of our best talent, that's all.

I don't know how many times I have to say that Garner struck out nearly every at bat in SEC play. That's not any better than what we got out of Vickerson and Armstrong. Humphreys played a decent amount and he had things that he had to work on as well.

Collins played and started as a freshman.

It's also perception about freshmen being impact guys all over the country. It's not the norm even though they are certainly out there. Experience wins in baseball most of the time. We see a guy like Errol Robinson and wonder "why can't we find anyone like that?" but then we forget that Gavin Collins had essentially the exact same season this year for us as a freshman at the plate.

I think Cohen will certainly play freshmen- but they have to be able to perform. He's not going to put someone out there like Garner, let them strike out 60 times by the mid point of SEC play lose their confidence totally and then have the "bust" tag put on them by our fans.

[Goat Holder]

I'd like to know how we're going to play all the guys we have, now that Rea is coming back? Humphreys/Ingram/Rea/Garner.....there's simply not room unless we give up defense.

[Pioneer Dawg]

I'm a big Cohen fan, so I'm not bashing him or anything.

Don't fear the mafia. This qualifier doesn't have to be used when disagreeing with something baseball-wise.

[CadaverDawg]

I don't know how many times I have to say that Garner struck out nearly every at bat in SEC play. That's not any better than what we got out of Vickerson and Armstrong. Humphreys played a decent amount and he had things that he had to work on as well.

Collins played and started as a freshman.

It's also perception about freshmen being impact guys all over the country. It's not the norm even though they are certainly out there. Experience wins in baseball most of the time. We see a guy like Errol Robinson and wonder "why can't we find anyone like that?" but then we forget that Gavin Collins had essentially the exact same season this year for us as a freshman at the plate.

I think Cohen will certainly play freshmen- but they have to be able to perform. He's not going to put someone out there like Garner, let them strike out 60 times by the mid point of SEC play lose their confidence totally and then have the "bust" tag put on them by our fans.

Don't misconstrue what I'm saying Todd.... I'm not saying it is "common" to see impact freshmen "all over the country". I'm saying guys like Humphreys should be one of those guys....but even if he isn't, we need to be getting him more experience IMO. And you're right about Garner....but at the same time, he only got 1 at bat every couple of weeks or in garbage time. Early in the year when he played entire games, we got a glimpse at his potential. Yes, he was going to strike out a lot if he had gotten more at bats, but like you said, Armstrong was too and he's gone now, so I would have rather had Garner working out the kinks while giving us some potential power here and there, than Armstrong K-ing and giving us an occasional single. See what I'm saying? I'm not disagreeing with you on this, just simply saying we could have done it a little differently and at worst had the same on field results while gaining valuable experience for guys like Hump and Garner. That's all.

And the whole, "he's not going to put them out there and let them fail" stuff is just inaccurate IMO. He let Armstrong go out there and fail, and Vick too. Didn't kill their confidence. Meanwhile, Garner goes 4-4 and gets benched for a few weeks...and was never the same. How is that not a "confidence killer"? Same for Henderson even though he wasn't a youngster. He was our team leader in hitting early, and Cohen benched him for 2 weeks, and he never got back to that form. Again, not saying it's a guarantee that they would have kept doing it, but why not ride hot bats, and why not give freshmen a chance to go out there, make mistakes, and continue to play and work their way out of them? You say experience is key, but where does experience come from if they don't get valuable minutes until the year before they leave us? It's not an attack on Cohen...just a discussion about how I would like to see him do things a little different in regards to these few things, but if he doesn't it's not like it will ruin our program.

[engie]

Dave Murray did ask about a list of signees and Cohen sat and thought about it and said three times, no we won't release those. He wavered a little like he was going to explain why but didn't. I think they are still excited about Paul Young and what he could be.

I think the reason why is clear -- Cohen just thought it best not to "put it out there".

Getting good, academic scholly guys and treating them exactly like baseball scholly guys, to the extent that you don't know which is which, breeds fairness and competition, and allows us to "sign" way more good players without "walk-on stigma"...

[Pioneer Dawg]

I don't know how many times I have to say that Garner struck out nearly every at bat in SEC play. That's not any better than what we got out of Vickerson and Armstrong. Humphreys played a decent amount and he had things that he had to work on as well.

Collins played and started as a freshman.

It's also perception about freshmen being impact guys all over the country. It's not the norm even though they are certainly out there. Experience wins in baseball most of the time. We see a guy like Errol Robinson and wonder "why can't we find anyone like that?" but then we forget that Gavin Collins had essentially the exact same season this year for us as a freshman at the plate.

I think Cohen will certainly play freshmen- but they have to be able to perform. He's not going to put someone out there like Garner, let them strike out 60 times by the mid point of SEC play lose their confidence totally and then have the "bust" tag put on them by our fans.

1. You failed to mention Bortles and Woodman along with Errol. It's not like others just have ONE freshman contributor.

2. It takes around 80 plate appearances to get a good gauge on K rate, not 12. After a full fall worth of AB's against SEC arms his K rate was less than half of what it was in season.. Essentially the same as Cody Brown. Watching the games showed us his talent and power potential that was badly needed in the lineup. Any idea that he would strike out that much when playing routinely is stupid.


To Goat: Humphreys in RF wouldn't be "giving up defense" nor would somebody at the DH spot. I think Rea has a uphill climb to earn a starting spot unless Cohen just starts him because he's a SR.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Bourne has 39 players on roster. Seems like a lot for a summer team where playing time is needed.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

We will move into the stadium 2017

[Irondawg]

I'd like to see us build this team a lot like the old 80's Cardinals teams. Find some guys with above avg defense, decent contact skills but can fly and put them up top of the order and at 8-9 (this covers CF, LF, SS and 2B) and put other teams on notice that we are gonig to run all day. Make a single, walk, HBP turn into a double 75% of the time. Find mashers at 1B, DH and possibly RF to be the meat of the order. Then do what you can at 3B and C to maximize the team.

[messageboardsuperhero]

1. You failed to mention Bortles and Woodman along with Errol. It's not like others just have ONE freshman contributor.

2. It takes around 80 plate appearances to get a good gauge on K rate, not 12. After a full fall worth of AB's against SEC arms his K rate was less than half of what it was in season.. Essentially the same as Cody Brown. Watching the games showed us his talent and power potential that was badly needed in the lineup. Any idea that he would strike out that much when playing routinely is stupid.


To Goat: Humphreys in RF wouldn't be "giving up defense" nor would somebody at the DH spot. I think Rea has a uphill climb to earn a starting spot unless Cohen just starts him because he's a SR.

I'll give you Woodman, but Humphreys and Garner BOTH had more ABs in SEC play than Bortles. And you fail to mention that Gavin Collins wasn't our only consistent freshman contributor on offense- Cody Brown played a lot as well.

I'll be the first to admit that I wanted to see more of Humphreys this year, but it's not like Cohen refuses to play freshmen.

[Todd4State]

Don't misconstrue what I'm saying Todd.... I'm not saying it is "common" to see impact freshmen "all over the country". I'm saying guys like Humphreys should be one of those guys....but even if he isn't, we need to be getting him more experience IMO. And you're right about Garner....but at the same time, he only got 1 at bat every couple of weeks or in garbage time. Early in the year when he played entire games, we got a glimpse at his potential. Yes, he was going to strike out a lot if he had gotten more at bats, but like you said, Armstrong was too and he's gone now, so I would have rather had Garner working out the kinks while giving us some potential power here and there, than Armstrong K-ing and giving us an occasional single. See what I'm saying? I'm not disagreeing with you on this, just simply saying we could have done it a little differently and at worst had the same on field results while gaining valuable experience for guys like Hump and Garner. That's all.

And the whole, "he's not going to put them out there and let them fail" stuff is just inaccurate IMO. He let Armstrong go out there and fail, and Vick too. Didn't kill their confidence. Meanwhile, Garner goes 4-4 and gets benched for a few weeks...and was never the same. How is that not a "confidence killer"? Same for Henderson even though he wasn't a youngster. He was our team leader in hitting early, and Cohen benched him for 2 weeks, and he never got back to that form. Again, not saying it's a guarantee that they would have kept doing it, but why not ride hot bats, and why not give freshmen a chance to go out there, make mistakes, and continue to play and work their way out of them? You say experience is key, but where does experience come from if they don't get valuable minutes until the year before they leave us? It's not an attack on Cohen...just a discussion about how I would like to see him do things a little different in regards to these few things, but if he doesn't it's not like it will ruin our program.

The big difference between Vickerson, Armstrong, and Garner is those guys are juniors and seniors and more mature players and they have a position to play, which hurts Garner as much as anything. That and they didn't strike nearly as much as Garner. Cohen gave Garner the start the first SEC game of the season against Georgia- he went 0-2 with 2 K's. After that he sat down. We then decided to use Alex Detz at DH.

[Todd4State]

1. You failed to mention Bortles and Woodman along with Errol. It's not like others just have ONE freshman contributor.

2. It takes around 80 plate appearances to get a good gauge on K rate, not 12. After a full fall worth of AB's against SEC arms his K rate was less than half of what it was in season.. Essentially the same as Cody Brown. Watching the games showed us his talent and power potential that was badly needed in the lineup. Any idea that he would strike out that much when playing routinely is stupid.


To Goat: Humphreys in RF wouldn't be "giving up defense" nor would somebody at the DH spot. I think Rea has a uphill climb to earn a starting spot unless Cohen just starts him because he's a SR.

1. Bortles = Reid Humphreys for us this year. Woodman is a platoon guy this year. That's not what I consider immediate impact as in starting every game and performing at a high level.

2. Just because it takes you 80 plate appearances to figure out a guy isn't ready doesn't mean that it takes everyone else to figure that out. If a guy with no history strikes out 12 times in 15 at bats, I'd say the odds are that he is going to keep striking out. Also, Garner is currently hitting .167 for his summer league team despite the three home runs. He's Jon Knott.

[Pioneer Dawg]

The big difference between Vickerson, Armstrong, and Garner is those guys are juniors and seniors and more mature players and they have a position to play, which hurts Garner as much as anything. That and they didn't strike nearly as much as Garner. Cohen gave Garner the start the first SEC game of the season against Georgia- he went 0-2 with 2 K's. After that he sat down. We then decided to use Alex Detz at DH.

Gavin Collins was 0-1 with 1 K vs UGA in that first game. He was given chances for routine playing time and we saw what happened.

IN FACT coming into the UGA series Garner was hitting .323 while Collins was hitting just .192

So Garner goes from starting the first SEC game hitting 5TH on March 14, to not getting an AB again until April 6th…..

[Todd4State]

Gavin Collins was 0-1 with 1 K vs UGA in that first game. He was given chances for routine playing time and we saw what happened.

IN FACT coming into the UGA series Garner was hitting .323 while Collins was hitting just .192

So Garner goes from starting the first SEC game hitting 5TH on March 14, to not getting an AB again until April 6th…..

Gavin's competition- Zach Randolph and Cody Walker.

Garner's competition- Alex Detz.

Gavin was clearly better defensively thanRandolph and Walker and then the bat came around. Good for him and for us.

Garner was still given opportunities and continued to strike out. That sucks for us.

[Pioneer Dawg]

1. Bortles = Reid Humphreys for us this year. Woodman is a platoon guy this year. That's not what I consider immediate impact as in starting every game and performing at a high level.

2. Just because it takes you 80 plate appearances to figure out a guy isn't ready doesn't mean that it takes everyone else to figure that out. If a guy with no history strikes out 12 times in 15 at bats, I'd say the odds are that he is going to keep striking out. Also, Garner is currently hitting .167 for his summer league team despite the three home runs. He's Jon Knott.

Todd: the master of small sample sizes.

Britton is 0-3 so far… he's done!!

[Pioneer Dawg]

Gavin's competition- Zach Randolph and Cody Walker.

Garner's competition- Alex Detz.

Gavin was clearly better defensively thanRandolph and Walker and then the bat came around. Good for him and for us.

Garner was still given opportunities and continued to strike out. That sucks for us.

Conveniently leaving out Wes Rea, who had at least 1 K in 20 of his 26 SEC starts. Rea had 12 games this year with TWO K's or more… 12.. in 54 starts. In nearly 25% of his starts he had multiple K's. There is NO WAY Garner matches Rea K for K, especially down the stretch.

[Todd4State]

Todd: the master of small sample sizes.

Britton is 0-3 so far… he's done!!

If you knew anything about baseball you wouldn't need 2000 at bats, excuse me, plate appearances to see what is going to happen.



Will James = "He strikes out almost every time- why isn't he playing? He did good in the fall against walk-ons!"

[Todd4State]

Conveniently leaving out Wes Rea, who had at least 1 K in 20 of his 26 SEC starts. Rea had 12 games this year with TWO K's or more… 12.. in 54 starts. In nearly 25% of his starts he had multiple K's. There is NO WAY Garner matches Rea K for K, especially down the stretch.

I "conveniently" left Rea out because Garner is not ready to play first base. Hence- not Garner's competition.

And you're wrong- there absolutely is a WAY that Garner could have matched Rea K for K. And probably would have led the SEC in K's had we let him go the entire season. Not to mention Garner's .083 batting average with ONE hit which was darn close to being a fly out.

Even as bad as Rea was this past year, he would have been better than Garner. Hell, Garner can't even hit his freshmen/sophomore summer league pitchers right now and you think he could hit SEC hitters?

There is absolutely NOTHING. ZERO. NO EVIDENCE. that Garner would have hit SEC pitching at all. And if he wants to improve his chances he needs to find a position to play because there is almost no room in today's game for a guy that can DH and that's it.

[Todd4State]

Rea had 55 K's on the year. Garner had 20 in limited time.

In SEC play Rea had 27 K's in 86 at bats. Garner had 9 in only 12 at bats.


Yeah- no way Garner couldn't have passed him.**

[Goat Holder]

Cadaver dawg.......

Cohen DOES let the freshmen play, he always has. If there's one thing Cohen does, is that he gives everyone a shot seemingly. I understand fans wanting our high-profile recruits to play more and 'develop', but geez, the man sees them at practice. He said over and over again this year that he was bringing Humphreys and Garner along slowly (he mentioned them SPECIFICALLY). This is why I give people hell who aren't informed but making strong opinions. Go to games (at minimum watch them), and listen to coaches shows. You'll see what's really going on.

The question should actually be - why aren't our high level recruits panning out? This is really the only problem I have had with Cohen. We spent a lot of scholarship money on guys like Daryl Norris and Brandon Woodruff - why didn't they pan out? They definitely got every opportunity to play. Is it an evaluation problem? Didn't ANYONE notice that Garner couldn't play catcher? I'd have thought this stuff would have been obvious, but you never know what an 18 year old will do. Happens everywhere, Preston Overbey was supposed to be All-World, he's been underwhelming at best for Bianco.

[smootness]

We knew of Garner's defensive issues at catcher, but we also knew his bat was worth giving him a shot to figure things out, knowing he could always provide a bat even if he didn't.

In regard to the freshmen, I agree. Cohen himself said Humphreys could end up being the best player to ever play at State in the fall. He certainly understands the talent level, but that doesn't mean he was ready this year.

[Homedawg]

David Hayman is the only one besides will James that's pissed that garner didn't play much. His strikeout record would have been smashed.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

David Hayman is the only one besides will James that's pissed that garner didn't play much. His strikeout record would have been smashed.

Wow, david hayman. That brings back memories.

[Pioneer Dawg]

David Hayman is the only one besides will James that's pissed that garner didn't play much. His strikeout record would have been smashed.

As Rea will likely set the all time SEC K record next year. The absurdity of Garner being more of a K guy than Wes continues to amaze me.

[CadaverDawg]

Cadaver dawg.......

Cohen DOES let the freshmen play, he always has. If there's one thing Cohen does, is that he gives everyone a shot seemingly. I understand fans wanting our high-profile recruits to play more and 'develop', but geez, the man sees them at practice. He said over and over again this year that he was bringing Humphreys and Garner along slowly (he mentioned them SPECIFICALLY). This is why I give people hell who aren't informed but making strong opinions. Go to games (at minimum watch them), and listen to coaches shows. You'll see what's really going on.

The question should actually be - why aren't our high level recruits panning out? This is really the only problem I have had with Cohen. We spent a lot of scholarship money on guys like Daryl Norris and Brandon Woodruff - why didn't they pan out? They definitely got every opportunity to play. Is it an evaluation problem? Didn't ANYONE notice that Garner couldn't play catcher? I'd have thought this stuff would have been obvious, but you never know what an 18 year old will do. Happens everywhere, Preston Overbey was supposed to be All-World, he's been underwhelming at best for Bianco.

Learn to read, genius. I didn't say he "doesn't let them play" at all... I said he doesn't let them play repetitively. Meaning, they can't get in a rhythm. And I never said "all of them". So try reading something before making a dumb response.

I go to 10 games while you go to 9....so I know more than you. #GoatLogic

Why do you continue to say that...it makes you look dumb-er.

And again, if he sees Hump in practice, does he see Armstrong? Then what the hell is the difference in letting Armstrong K vs Hump? At least Hump could see some live pitching in an actual meaningful game and be more prepared for next year.

Again, not bashing Cohen or saying I know more than him. It is just an observation of what I'd like to see, based on the fact that I played baseball and rhythms DO exist. Not saying Cohen is Wrong... Just making my own observation and opinion, as someone that knows the game, not just a person that goes and eats popcorn and acts like that makes him knowledgeable, like you.

[smootness]

As Rea will likely set the all time SEC K record next year. The absurdity of Garner being more of a K guy than Wes continues to amaze me.

I realize you have to keep this argument up, but you're smart enough to realize that anyone who strikes out as much as Garner was, even in a limited sample, is not going to suddenly become a guy who doesn't strike out much with continued opportunity.

He was going to have a ton of Ks last year if we had played him more. Period. There's no indication he was ready to be a decent hitter in the SEC last year, and he certainly didn't give us what Rea did defensively.

I understand you like Garner's potential. So does everyone else. Heck, so does John Cohen; he recruited the guy. But players aren't immediately at their potential from day one. Garner was given some limited opportunities, and he did nothing in those opportunities that made anyone believe he was ready to realize his potential last year.

He has time, he's going to be a very good hitter. But guys who aren't going to strike out a lot don't strike out 9 times in 12 ABs or whatever it was.

[Todd4State]

Learn to read, genius. I didn't say he "doesn't let them play" at all... I said he doesn't let them play repetitively. Meaning, they can't get in a rhythm. And I never said "all of them". So try reading something before making a dumb response.

I go to 10 games while you go to 9....so I know more than you. #GoatLogic

Why do you continue to say that...it makes you look dumb-er.

And again, if he sees Hump in practice, does he see Armstrong? Then what the hell is the difference in letting Armstrong K vs Hump? At least Hump could see some live pitching in an actual meaningful game and be more prepared for next year.

Again, not bashing Cohen or saying I know more than him. It is just an observation of what I'd like to see, based on the fact that I played baseball and rhythms DO exist. Not saying Cohen is Wrong... Just making my own observation and opinion, as someone that knows the game, not just a person that goes and eats popcorn and acts like that makes him knowledgeable, like you.

I think the difference is the position that they play. If Britton had continued to hit poorly, I think we would have eventually seen Humhreys play at third against LH pitching. Now, yes- I do think that Humphreys could play the outfield but he didn't get very many reps there this year in practice, but I do think he will get some this year starting this fall. It depends on how Robson comes back because if he does, I'm 99% sure our outfield will be Cody Brown, Robson, and Vickerson and if not, then it will be Humphreys, Brown, and Vickerson.

The difference between an Armstrong and a Vickerson striking out vs. a Garner or Humphreys is at least they aren't playing out of position and hurting us on defense too. That has to be a consideration at some point.

[War Machine Dawg]

Don't misconstrue what I'm saying Todd.... I'm not saying it is "common" to see impact freshmen "all over the country". I'm saying guys like Humphreys should be one of those guys....but even if he isn't, we need to be getting him more experience IMO. And you're right about Garner....but at the same time, he only got 1 at bat every couple of weeks or in garbage time. Early in the year when he played entire games, we got a glimpse at his potential. Yes, he was going to strike out a lot if he had gotten more at bats, but like you said, Armstrong was too and he's gone now, so I would have rather had Garner working out the kinks while giving us some potential power here and there, than Armstrong K-ing and giving us an occasional single. See what I'm saying? I'm not disagreeing with you on this, just simply saying we could have done it a little differently and at worst had the same on field results while gaining valuable experience for guys like Hump and Garner. That's all.

And the whole, "he's not going to put them out there and let them fail" stuff is just inaccurate IMO. He let Armstrong go out there and fail, and Vick too. Didn't kill their confidence. Meanwhile, Garner goes 4-4 and gets benched for a few weeks...and was never the same. How is that not a "confidence killer"? Same for Henderson even though he wasn't a youngster. He was our team leader in hitting early, and Cohen benched him for 2 weeks, and he never got back to that form. Again, not saying it's a guarantee that they would have kept doing it, but why not ride hot bats, and why not give freshmen a chance to go out there, make mistakes, and continue to play and work their way out of them? You say experience is key, but where does experience come from if they don't get valuable minutes until the year before they leave us? It's not an attack on Cohen...just a discussion about how I would like to see him do things a little different in regards to these few things, but if he doesn't it's not like it will ruin our program.

Spot on.

[Todd4State]

I realize you have to keep this argument up, but you're smart enough to realize that anyone who strikes out as much as Garner was, even in a limited sample, is not going to suddenly become a guy who doesn't strike out much with continued opportunity.

He was going to have a ton of Ks last year if we had played him more. Period. There's no indication he was ready to be a decent hitter in the SEC last year, and he certainly didn't give us what Rea did defensively.

I understand you like Garner's potential. So does everyone else. Heck, so does John Cohen; he recruited the guy. But players aren't immediately at their potential from day one. Garner was given some limited opportunities, and he did nothing in those opportunities that made anyone believe he was ready to realize his potential last year.

He has time, he's going to be a very good hitter. But guys who aren't going to strike out a lot don't strike out 9 times in 12 ABs or whatever it was.

Ding, ding, ding! Heck, until he made me look it up I didn't realize just how bad Garner actually was. 44 AB's. 20 K's. That's almost 50% of the time.

Rea- 200 AB's on the dot. 55 K's.

If Garner had Rea's AB's, he would have almost certainly passed him and then blown him away with strikeouts. Garner was on pace to have around 80 K's and that's being very conservative.

And for comparisons sake- Humphreys had 16 in 58 ABs's. Garner had more K's than Gavin Collins did on the entire season. He also out-whiffed CT Bradford as well.

[Pioneer Dawg]

Ding, ding, ding! Heck, until he made me look it up I didn't realize just how bad Garner actually was. 44 AB's. 20 K's. That's almost 50% of the time.

Rea- 200 AB's on the dot. 55 K's.

If Garner had Rea's AB's, he would have almost certainly passed him and then blown him away with strikeouts. Garner was on pace to have around 80 K's and that's being very conservative.

And for comparisons sake- Humphreys had 16 in 58 ABs's. Garner had more K's than Gavin Collins did on the entire season. He also out-whiffed CT Bradford as well.

Again... Consistent playing time... You won't see this point that Cadaver and I are making so its only worthwhile to inform others through responding to you.

CT is not a K guy so not sure why he was included.

You show ignorance using AB's computing K rate.

[Goat Holder]

Don't get mad, bruh. Just calling it like I see it. You're obviously missing a lot of information.

Guess what....I played too. I know the game. It don't make me or you special. I'm simply telling YOU shit that I've noticed by watching MSU. Stuff you obviously don't know.

[Homedawg]

Again... Consistent playing time... You won't see this point that Cadaver and I are making so its only worthwhile to inform others through responding to you.

CT is not a K guy so not sure why he was included.

You show ignorance using AB's computing K rate.
Amazing how when someone uses numbers against you, the numbers are worthless. Yet, the only way you can talk about the game is using numbers, I.e. Bunting. U have to do that because you think the stats will cover up your actual lack of knowledge of baseball.

[Goat Holder]

You don't think Swinarski is going to play?

[Pioneer Dawg]

Amazing how when someone uses numbers against you, the numbers are worthless. Yet, the only way you can talk about the game is using numbers, I.e. Bunting. U have to do that because you think the stats will cover up your actual lack of knowledge of baseball.

Bwahahahaha yes those "numbers" from an at bat here and there sometimes weeks apart CLEARLY prove something substantial.

Just a point of reference, MLB pinch hitters K an extraordinary 7% more than the league average as a whole. That's the LEAGUE AVERAGE.

Garner rarely got the chance to adjust to a pitcher.. Rarely got the chance to get in a groove.. And you think his numbers are in any way meaningful? It's a testament to him that he finished a very respectable .273 average given those disadvantages.

This Garner K thing is a damn joke an I hope all you readers see it as such. Especially compared to Rea....

[Todd4State]

Again... Consistent playing time... You won't see this point that Cadaver and I are making so its only worthwhile to inform others through responding to you.

CT is not a K guy so not sure why he was included.

You show ignorance using AB's computing K rate.

Garner only walked three times, and was hit by a pitch once, and had one SF. Using AB's vs. plate appearances isn't going to change much in this case. Except probably make Rea look better- so knock yourself out. The point that Garner K's almost every other AB/plate appearance still remains no matter what you want to use. And when a guy has 1/3 of the K's that our leading K guy has in a small sample size it's even worse.

I get what you and Cadaver are saying but you are both wrong. If you think that "consistent playing time" is going to always lead to offensive success and somehow cause a guy to strike out less, you are wrong.

The point is you think that playing a guy that has an extremely high K rate is somehow going to start hitting and striking out LESS because he is going to somehow get into this mythical made up "groove" or rhythm- which is based on nothing. ESPECIALLY with someone with a rather alarmingly high K rate which actually gets worse the more you dissect it. And that doesn't even include the fact that he can't play a defensive position.

[Pioneer Dawg]

You don't think Swinarski is going to play?

He was really raw in the fall, far behind everyone else. We'll see how he does in the summer and offseason.

[Todd4State]

Bwahahahaha yes those "numbers" from an at bat here and there sometimes weeks apart CLEARLY prove something substantial.

Just a point of reference, MLB pinch hitters K an extraordinary 7% more than the league average as a whole. That's the LEAGUE AVERAGE.

Garner rarely got the chance to adjust to a pitcher.. Rarely got the chance to get in a groove.. And you think his numbers are in any way meaningful? It's a testament to him that he finished a very respectable .273 average given those disadvantages.

This Garner K thing is a damn joke an I hope all you readers see it as such. Especially compared to Rea....

MLB pinch hitters are also guys that usually don't start for a reason.

The biggest joke was you saying that Garner wouldn't have touched Rea as far as K's.

And yet- I'll say it AGAIN for the people out there.

Rea- 55 K's 200 AB's

Garner- 20 K's 44 AB's

Garner hit .083 against SEC pitching. He can hit midweek pitching. How come he is the ONLY one on the entire team that has to have an AB to get used to the pitching? We have plenty of guys who pinch hit all the time and aren't nearly as bad. Don't talk to me about making excues for Cohen again.

[Todd4State]

Amazing how when someone uses numbers against you, the numbers are worthless. Yet, the only way you can talk about the game is using numbers, I.e. Bunting. U have to do that because you think the stats will cover up your actual lack of knowledge of baseball.

Exactly. It's all Bill James except when it comes to the sabermetric stat of "the groove". Which has zero basis whatsoever.

The problem with Will is he can't see things unless it is on a piece of paper in black and white. He has to have a huge sample size- and the irony to all of this is if Garner had a really bad K%, which I have no doubt that he would have had he played the entire year- he would be calling Cohen out for playing his so much. Sabermetrically speaking- Garner was one of our worst players last year.

[Todd4State]

You don't think Swinarski is going to play?

I think Rooker and Swinarski are wild cards at this point. Right now Rooker is playing better on his summer team. If one or both emerge, I could see Cohen platooning Cody, Vickerson, and maybe even Robson with them.

[CadaverDawg]

Garner only walked three times, and was hit by a pitch once, and had one SF. Using AB's vs. plate appearances isn't going to change much in this case. Except probably make Rea look better- so knock yourself out. The point that Garner K's almost every other AB/plate appearance still remains no matter what you want to use. And when a guy has 1/3 of the K's that our leading K guy has in a small sample size it's even worse.

I get what you and Cadaver are saying but you are both wrong. If you think that "consistent playing time" is going to always lead to offensive success and somehow cause a guy to strike out less, you are wrong.

The point is you think that playing a guy that has an extremely high K rate is somehow going to start hitting and striking out LESS because he is going to somehow get into this mythical made up "groove" or rhythm- which is based on nothing. ESPECIALLY with someone with a rather alarmingly high K rate which actually gets worse the more you dissect it. And that doesn't even include the fact that he can't play a defensive position.

Look I'm not arguing all of WJ's points, but how can you say I'm wrong that more consistent at bats won't help a hitter? I can agree to disagree on a lot of stuff, but not that. If I'm facing a Friday night Ace 4 times a game vs once every three weeks, I'm likely to be better bc I'm able to adjust to him throughout the game AND I'll be a better hitter from week to week bc I am seeing more and more good pitching. I'm shocked that you would even imply that more at bats against good pitching won't make you a better hitter...truly shocked.

Are you not in agreement that teams hit Fitts better after one time through the lineup? If so, then you are against your own argument.

Why even play summer ball if more at bats doesn't help you improve as a hitter?

[CadaverDawg]

Let me add....

I'm not saying he would have been better than Rea...that's btwn WJ and T4S. I'm simply saying that he probably doesn't continue at that K rate if he got more consistent at bats. Would it have been a LOT better? Who knows. But going a month during the season with no at bats can't help your K rate.

[State82]

Most of this has been discussed on here and it looks like Cohen agrees with most of us.


About time he wised up and got with the program. :)

[CadaverDawg]

About time he wised up and got with the program. :)

I don't understand why people can't discuss things without it becoming an "argument". I for one, am not saying Cohen is a bad coach. I'm simply discussing ways to potentially get more experience and at bats out of talented players before they leave, rather than wasting at bats with Seniors that aren't getting it done. I'll take a K by a high ceiling freshman over a K by a low ceiling Senior any day bc of experience gained.

Am I right or wrong? There is no right or wrong bc I'm simply giving my opinion. Truth is, WJ is not right 100% on this argument, and Todd isn't either. Because there is no way of knowing what Garner does last season with more at bats. Small sample stats say he K's in 50% of his remaining at bats. But baseball knowledge says it likely doesn't stay exact to that small sample size, but it could.

For instance, Todd can use the 20 K's in 44 at bats, but what if he had gotten injured after the 4-4 game? Could WJ use the fact that he likely bats a thousand? Or has no K's on the year since he didn't K in those 4 at bats? What if those 44 at bats had come in a row vs weeks in between? Would his K rate be different? Possibly. Can I prove it? No. Can someone disprove it? No.

It's baseball. Stats are important, but rarely tell the whole story.

Why can't we just discuss it without someone having to take an extreme stance to either side?

Guess that's just message boards for you.

This wasn't directed at you, 82.

And for the record, I agree with some of T4S and some of WJ on this issue

[Todd4State]

Look I'm not arguing all of WJ's points, but how can you say I'm wrong that more consistent at bats won't help a hitter? I can agree to disagree on a lot of stuff, but not that. If I'm facing a Friday night Ace 4 times a game vs once every three weeks, I'm likely to be better bc I'm able to adjust to him throughout the game AND I'll be a better hitter from week to week bc I am seeing more and more good pitching. I'm shocked that you would even imply that more at bats against good pitching won't make you a better hitter...truly shocked.

Are you not in agreement that teams hit Fitts better after one time through the lineup? If so, then you are against your own argument.

Why even play summer ball if more at bats doesn't help you improve as a hitter?

I get that you aren't arguing Will James points. You have a brain and aren't a troll. I'm not accusing you of saying that Garner wouldn't strike out as much as Rea at all.

Just getting AB's alone doesn't make you a better hitter. There's a lot more to it than that. Look at what I said closely- it says "always lead to offensive success". Adjusting to pitchers in game and things like that are signs of mature hitters. That's not what Garner and Humprheys were last year. Just because you play a lot doesn't mean that you will figure it out at some point.

If we kept putting a guy out there and he kept striking out every at bat, would you not question why Cohen was putting him out there? If you had two guys like Humphreys and one like Garner and Humprheys was playing better, wouldn't you be inclined to play the guy performing better- which is what we did with Humphreys?

As far as Fitts- I think he can go deeper into games, but my stance has always been we had to find a way to incorporate Lindgren.

Why play summer ball? So you can get experience and AB's in a more controlled environment where you won't hurt your college team in the process. Again- I do agree that experience and AB's helps but it doesn't necessarily mean that a guy is without a doubt going to get into a groove at some point.

[Goat Holder]

Nobody's arguing but you. You are the one that gets your feelings hurt when people point things out that don't jive with your opinion.

I agree with about half of what WJ and Todd say, similar to how sometimes I agree/disagree with you, but I never get into pissing matches with them. Hmmm, what's the common denominator here. Look in the mirror. Act snarky and people are going to throw it back at you. And I know....I do it sometimes too. But I don't whine and wonder why everybody is getting mad.

[CadaverDawg]

Deleted. Not falling for Goat's bait. Nobody is mad, but I'm glad you are able to sense emotion through text, ha.

[Todd4State]

Let me add....

I'm not saying he would have been better than Rea...that's btwn WJ and T4S. I'm simply saying that he probably doesn't continue at that K rate if he got more consistent at bats. Would it have been a LOT better? Who knows. But going a month during the season with no at bats can't help your K rate.

Depends on what you mean by a LOT. I do think that if Garner had gotten 150 AB's to get close to what Rea had he would have K'd at least 35 times over that period to catch him though. And it's not like Garner was walking a lot either. Garner was on pace to strike out approx. 80 times. Might have been somewhere between 65 and 80 and I'm just wild guessing here doing math in my head.

I have a feeling that we should be thankful that we don't know.

[CadaverDawg]

I get that you aren't arguing Will James points. You have a brain and aren't a troll. I'm not accusing you of saying that Garner wouldn't strike out as much as Rea at all.

Just getting AB's alone doesn't make you a better hitter. There's a lot more to it than that. Look at what I said closely- it says "always lead to offensive success". Adjusting to pitchers in game and things like that are signs of mature hitters. That's not what Garner and Humprheys were last year. Just because you play a lot doesn't mean that you will figure it out at some point.

If we kept putting a guy out there and he kept striking out every at bat, would you not question why Cohen was putting him out there? If you had two guys like Humphreys and one like Garner and Humprheys was playing better, wouldn't you be inclined to play the guy performing better- which is what we did with Humphreys?

As far as Fitts- I think he can go deeper into games, but my stance has always been we had to find a way to incorporate Lindgren.

Why play summer ball? So you can get experience and AB's in a more controlled environment where you won't hurt your college team in the process. Again- I do agree that experience and AB's helps but it doesn't necessarily mean that a guy is without a doubt going to get into a groove at some point.

I can agree with this. And I agree that at bats Alone, won't make a better hitter...but it sure helps a lot. And I think the biggest help would be in making contact because you're seeing more pitches. So that's why I feel his K rate would have dropped. But how much? Who knows. Either way, it's a lot of Ks but a lot of experience he would have gained too. Double edged sword.

[ScottH]

You don't think Swinarski is going to play?

At least one member of our coaching staff thinks Swinarski will be a starter sooner rather than later next year.

[Todd4State]

I don't understand why people can't discuss things without it becoming an "argument". I for one, am not saying Cohen is a bad coach. I'm simply discussing ways to potentially get more experience and at bats out of talented players before they leave, rather than wasting at bats with Seniors that aren't getting it done. I'll take a K by a high ceiling freshman over a K by a low ceiling Senior any day bc of experience gained.

Am I right or wrong? There is no right or wrong bc I'm simply giving my opinion. Truth is, WJ is not right 100% on this argument, and Todd isn't either. Because there is no way of knowing what Garner does last season with more at bats. Small sample stats say he K's in 50% of his remaining at bats. But baseball knowledge says it likely doesn't stay exact to that small sample size, but it could.

For instance, Todd can use the 20 K's in 44 at bats, but what if he had gotten injured after the 4-4 game? Could WJ use the fact that he likely bats a thousand? Or has no K's on the year since he didn't K in those 4 at bats? What if those 44 at bats had come in a row vs weeks in between? Would his K rate be different? Possibly. Can I prove it? No. Can someone disprove it? No.

It's baseball. Stats are important, but rarely tell the whole story.

Why can't we just discuss it without someone having to take an extreme stance to either side?

Guess that's just message boards for you.

This wasn't directed at you, 82.

And for the record, I agree with some of T4S and some of WJ on this issue


To answer your first question- because Will James is a troll. That's why people can't discuss things without it being an "argument". There is a reason why he has been banned how many times on here?

At least I'll admit that he wouldn't K close to 100 times, and that stat isn't going to give an exact number because it is speculative. BUT what it does say is that Garner would strike out a lot if he played more. Even if that isn't 80 times. 44 times is a hell of a lot bigger sample size than 4.

I don't think you were arguing at all- you just asked a question and then Will took it into some weird direction where Garner somehow strikes out less than Wes Rea. THAT was dumb.

[Todd4State]

At least one member of our coaching staff thinks Swinarski will be a starter sooner rather than later next year.

I hope they are right. His upside is a lot higher than the other outfielders other than Humphreys if you consider him an outfielder. He's struggling in summer ball right not though. Swinarski is dare I say it- a five tool guy.

[I seen it dawg]

David Hayman is the only one besides will James that's pissed that garner didn't play much. His strikeout record would have been smashed.

Who?

[Vandelaydawg]

Who?

not knowing Hayman just further demonstrates the level of absurdity in these baseball arguments.

[Pioneer Dawg]

not knowing Hayman just further demonstrates the level of absurdity in these baseball arguments.

**lacks bolded comprehension**

[I seen it dawg]

I realize you have to keep this argument up, but you're smart enough to realize that anyone who strikes out as much as Garner was, even in a limited sample, is not going to suddenly become a guy who doesn't strike out much with continued opportunity.

He was going to have a ton of Ks last year if we had played him more. Period. There's no indication he was ready to be a decent hitter in the SEC last year, and he certainly didn't give us what Rea did defensively.

I understand you like Garner's potential. So does everyone else. Heck, so does John Cohen; he recruited the guy. But players aren't immediately at their potential from day one. Garner was given some limited opportunities, and he did nothing in those opportunities that made anyone believe he was ready to realize his potential last year.

He has time, he's going to be a very good hitter. But guys who aren't going to strike out a lot don't strike out 9 times in 12 ABs or whatever it was.

Come on now. Way way way too much credit. He never actually played the game.

[I seen it dawg]

Amazing how when someone uses numbers against you, the numbers are worthless. Yet, the only way you can talk about the game is using numbers, I.e. Bunting. U have to do that because you think the stats will cover up your actual lack of knowledge of baseball.

HE NEVER PLAYED THE GAME

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

not knowing Hayman just further demonstrates the level of absurdity in these baseball arguments.

This went from the best baseball board to the worst in 6 weeks.

I dont even give a shit anymore. I dont really read any of it and respond to even less. It is painful to read.

[I seen it dawg]

Exactly. It's all Bill James except when it comes to the sabermetric stat of "the groove". Which has zero basis whatsoever.

The problem with Will is he can't see things unless it is on a piece of paper in black and white. He has to have a huge sample size- and the irony to all of this is if Garner had a really bad K%, which I have no doubt that he would have had he played the entire year- he would be calling Cohen out for playing his so much. Sabermetrically speaking- Garner was one of our worst players last year.

Never played is the reason

[Pioneer Dawg]

Never played is the reason

This gets funnier every time

[Coach34]

not knowing Hayman just further demonstrates the level of absurdity in these baseball arguments.

obviously you missed who was in bold print

[I seen it dawg]

Bwahahahaha yes those "numbers" from an at bat here and there sometimes weeks apart CLEARLY prove something substantial.

Just a point of reference, MLB pinch hitters K an extraordinary 7% more than the league average as a whole. That's the LEAGUE AVERAGE.

Garner rarely got the chance to adjust to a pitcher.. Rarely got the chance to get in a groove.. And you think his numbers are in any way meaningful? It's a testament to him that he finished a very respectable .273 average given those disadvantages.

This Garner K thing is a damn joke an I hope all you readers see it as such. Especially compared to Rea....

Finally calling a spade a spade.

[I seen it dawg]

This gets funnier every time

Yeah you're right. I don't know why guys that know baseball continue to argue with a serf. Knowing that serfs never actually play baseball.

[I seen it dawg]

not knowing Hayman just further demonstrates the level of absurdity in these baseball arguments.

Damn dude. I went to school with Hayman

[KB21]

Guys, this isn't minor league baseball where player development is more important than actually winning the games. You can't just stick a guy out there and give him consistent at bats for developmental purposes and end up losing games because he is simply not ready. With Daniel Garner, I think it is obvious that Coach Cohen wanted him to be in the line up early in the year, but with the chances he was given, Daniel Garner didn't prove he needed to be in the line up. He has some holes in his swing that he needs to fix, and he needs to become better at pitch recognition. Hopefully, he is getting that developmental experience this summer. With that said, Daniel is hitting only .167 this summer. On the positive side, he has a .417 ISO due to his home runs, but he is the definition of an all or nothing hitter right now. He has 4 hits in 24 at bats, and those hits are 3 home runs and a double.

Dylan Ingram is currently outhitting him in the same league.

[KB21]

On the stadium thing, I wonder if they are looking to just renovate the current stadium or build a new one. If they built a new one, how feasible would it be to build one that has a concourse similar to Trustmark where you can get your concessions without having to miss any of the game?