Possibility of a Hitting Coach??

[RougeDawg]

I know I regularly bash Cohen for our hitting woes, but I want to clarify. John, for the most part, knows in game hitting strategy: steal, hit and run, bunt, etc. But it's apparent our bunting, swings, and approaches are Apparently sub par. From what I've seen, head coaches controlling pitching are more effective than HC's controlling hitting. I'm talking more mechanics and small tweaking of swings. HC's don't have time for that, which is why I think we need a ULL type "hitting" coach. The ULL hitting coach obviously took A&M baseball to different heights, hitting wise, and now has ULL putting up great stats. I just wish we would fork out some cheese to bring in a guy who focuses on hitting only. I think we would have a shot at the SEC every year, given Cohens in game calls and Thompson's pitching calls. It's just frustrating for me as a baseball person, to see Wes Rea have anything less than 10 bombs on the year. All of our other position guys should have some type of power potential, be it just gap, extra base hit power. We have singles hitters who could easily be transformed into gap hitters, with a little instruction and work.

[smootness]

You!!

I've already suggested this, you should apply.

[Dawg61]

RougeDawg I agree with you. Our hitting and lack of power this last year was bad. I don't see the harm in bringing in a stud hitting coach. Be creative with the titles and move an assistant and bring in someone who really can develop players into better hitters. Like the "swing guru" guy that Todd4State is always talking about. Can we just hire him full time to be our hitting coach? Or the ULL guy or what about one of our MLB alumni guys like Will Clark or dare I even say Rafael Palmeiro? Cohen and Thompson can just focus on pitching and managing the game and leave the hitting to someone who really really knows how to develop hitters.

[Todd4State]

I feel like this is Butch Thompson 2010 all over again.

First of all, our hitting will be better next year. Hitting is going to be the focus of the offseason, and as I outlined the other day, literally all of our hitters are off to very fast starts in their respective summer leagues. Yes, that's not a guarantee that they will tear it up next season- but it's also not a bad thing either. Ole Miss literally had the same team batting average and many of the exact same struggles that we had this year in 2013. Now they lead the SEC in hitting. A lot of that is because they have almost all juniors and seniors. Our catcher is only a sophomore but he had a good season and has a chance to make the US collegiate national team next year. He had a great night tonight on opening day in the Cape. We start three seniors on the infield and one junior who played on FSU's CWS team. We will also start a senior, a redshirt sophomore, and a sophomore who was drafted by the Nationals in the outfield next year, and then our probably DH has hit 3 home runs in three games for his summer league team. That also doesn't include Brent Rooker who is hitting .333 with a double and a home run for his team in 9 AB's and Dylan Ingram who was hitting .571 for his team. We will have more power and we will hit better next year. Mark it down.

Secondly, if you think that Cohen is teaching the wrong fundamentals, you are nuts. If that was the case NONE of our guys would be hitting rather than SOME. Why would you teach the proper technique to Hunter Renfroe, Brett Pirtle, Adam Frazier, Jarrod Parks, etc. and not everyone else? If all of those guys had the same summer league hitting coach, I could maybe by that argument. But they didn't.

Next- Matt Deggs. He didn't take A&M to new heights. He was fired. Why would the hitting coach at a then Big 12 school take a job as he hitting coach of a Sun Belt school? He was actually out of baseball for a year or two. So, how is he all of a sudden having success at ULL that LSU mysteriously somehow missed out on in their backyard? Think about it. I know you said a hitting coach "like" ULL's- and I'm just putting this out there for people who may be wondering.

And then Wes Rea. You're upset that a guy that was recruited as a pitcher isn't hitting 10 home runs every year? Well, OK. Wes is a big guy. Being 6'3" or whatever Wes is doesn't mean that you WILL hit with power. It doesn't mean that you can generate the bat speed, recognize the strike zone, not be selfish, have your timing down, etc. It just means that you have more power POTENTIAL. Rea was not an elite level recruit when he came in- not anything like Renfroe, Humphreys, Collins, etc. His best year was when he had protection from Renfroe. Wes is going to need that from Collins, Humphreys, and Garner next year- and I think he will get that and it will help him immensely. There was no reason to throw Wes a strike last year. None. And on top of that, I think it caused him to try to do too much. And his ahem...mechanics suffered because of it along with everything else. I think we will see a motivated Wes next year.

Our team batting average was .275. Some of the teams in the CWS- Virginia with several first round picks- .281, Vanderbilt .282, Pepperdine .281, TCU .283, Cal-Irvine .272, and Texas .268, Texas Tech .287.

[Todd4State]

RougeDawg I agree with you. Our hitting and lack of power this last year was bad. I don't see the harm in bringing in a stud hitting coach. Be creative with the titles and move an assistant and bring in someone who really can develop players into better hitters. Like the "swing guru" guy that Todd4State is always talking about. Can we just hire him full time to be our hitting coach? Or the ULL guy or what about one of our MLB alumni guys like Will Clark or dare I even say Rafael Palmeiro? Cohen and Thompson can just focus on pitching and managing the game and leave the hitting to someone who really really knows how to develop hitters.

I think you are talking about the Baseball Whisperer. He actually has a pitching background, but he is good with both.

Clark has a nice job as an executive with either the Giants or the Diamondbacks I think. Palmeiro and Cohen would work about as well as Polk and Cohen. Just because you played in MLB, it doesn't mean that you can coach on any level. Heck, years of watching Joe Morgan on ESPN should have clued people in on that.

[RougeDawg]

I feel like this is Butch Thompson 2010 all over again.

First of all, our hitting will be better next year. Hitting is going to be the focus of the offseason, and as I outlined the other day, literally all of our hitters are off to very fast starts in their respective summer leagues. Yes, that's not a guarantee that they will tear it up next season- but it's also not a bad thing either. Ole Miss literally had the same team batting average and many of the exact same struggles that we had this year in 2013. Now they lead the SEC in hitting. A lot of that is because they have almost all juniors and seniors. Our catcher is only a sophomore but he had a good season and has a chance to make the US collegiate national team next year. He had a great night tonight on opening day in the Cape. We start three seniors on the infield and one junior who played on FSU's CWS team. We will also start a senior, a redshirt sophomore, and a sophomore who was drafted by the Nationals in the outfield next year, and then our probably DH has hit 3 home runs in three games for his summer league team. That also doesn't include Brent Rooker who is hitting .333 with a double and a home run for his team in 9 AB's and Dylan Ingram who was hitting .571 for his team. We will have more power and we will hit better next year. Mark it down.

Secondly, if you think that Cohen is teaching the wrong fundamentals, you are nuts. If that was the case NONE of our guys would be hitting rather than SOME. Why would you teach the proper technique to Hunter Renfroe, Brett Pirtle, Adam Frazier, Jarrod Parks, etc. and not everyone else? If all of those guys had the same summer league hitting coach, I could maybe by that argument. But they didn't.

Next- Matt Deggs. He didn't take A&M to new heights. He was fired. Why would the hitting coach at a then Big 12 school take a job as he hitting coach of a Sun Belt school? He was actually out of baseball for a year or two. So, how is he all of a sudden having success at ULL that LSU mysteriously somehow missed out on in their backyard? Think about it. I know you said a hitting coach "like" ULL's- and I'm just putting this out there for people who may be wondering.

And then Wes Rea. You're upset that a guy that was recruited as a pitcher isn't hitting 10 home runs every year? Well, OK. Wes is a big guy. Being 6'3" or whatever Wes is doesn't mean that you WILL hit with power. It doesn't mean that you can generate the bat speed, recognize the strike zone, not be selfish, have your timing down, etc. It just means that you have more power POTENTIAL. Rea was not an elite level recruit when he came in- not anything like Renfroe, Humphreys, Collins, etc. His best year was when he had protection from Renfroe. Wes is going to need that from Collins, Humphreys, and Garner next year- and I think he will get that and it will help him immensely. There was no reason to throw Wes a strike last year. None. And on top of that, I think it caused him to try to do too much. And his ahem...mechanics suffered because of it along with everything else. I think we will see a motivated Wes next year.

Our team batting average was .275. Some of the teams in the CWS- Virginia with several first round picks- .281, Vanderbilt .282, Pepperdine .281, TCU .283, Cal-Irvine .272, and Texas .268, Texas Tech .287.

Todd you make some good points, but are overlooking some critical things and I'm wondering the last time you've actually talked to a current MLB player or hitting coach. I'm serious. Your statements make me think you have 1990's hitting philosophy outlooks and have no knowledge of current hitting philosophies. I played with current players in the bigs and know some of the better hitting instructors in baseball. Hitting has changed in the last 15-20 years, at every level. Physics was the main cause.

Look at where our hitters hands start as opposed to where ULL and OM hitters hands start. Where the hands are, pre swing, makes a huge difference in power. We have our hands in singles hand position. Most times hitters put their hands there with 2 strikes. We have ours there all the time.

Im not saying Cohen is teaching the WRONG FUNDAMENTALS. I'm saying he isnt teaching anything fundamental wise. Where our hitters hands are, pre swing, are only good enough for singles. Our hands are pecs to shoulder. To obtain power you need armpit to a couple inches behind armpit. If our hitters moved their hands 4-6 inches back, pre swing, and practiced, our power numbers would jump dramatically. If we also worked on front leg stabilization, power would jump more.

YES WES REA, should be dropping 10 bombs a year minimum. With ULL's hitting instructor Rea would have 15+. It physics. He has leverage. With proper teaching he can use that leverage and put more power into the ball.

Who gives two ****s how good out batting average was? Multiple times this year I saw us get 3 hits an inning and score 0 runs. Thats an issue.

Todd here's my question for you and the others with Cohen Blinders on.............. Why do we have singles swings and approaches, even with our larger, supposedly more powerful hitters?

[I seen it dawg]

Todd you make some good points, but are overlooking some critical things and I'm wondering the last time you've actually talked to a current MLB player or hitting coach. I'm serious. Your statements make me think you have 1990's hitting philosophy outlooks and have no knowledge of current hitting philosophies. I played with current players in the bigs and know some of the better hitting instructors in baseball. Hitting has changed in the last 15-20 years, at every level. Physics was the main cause.

Look at where our hitters hands start as opposed to where ULL and OM hitters hands start. Where the hands are, pre swing, makes a huge difference in power. We have our hands in singles hand position. Most times hitters put their hands there with 2 strikes. We have ours there all the time.

Im not saying Cohen is teaching the WRONG FUNDAMENTALS. I'm saying he isnt teaching anything fundamental wise. Where our hitters hands are, pre swing, are only good enough for singles. Our hands are pecs to shoulder. To obtain power you need armpit to a couple inches behind armpit. If our hitters moved their hands 4-6 inches back, pre swing, and practiced, our power numbers would jump dramatically. If we also worked on front leg stabilization, power would jump more.

YES WES REA, should be dropping 10 bombs a year minimum. With ULL's hitting instructor Rea would have 15+. It physics. He has leverage. With proper teaching he can use that leverage and put more power into the ball.

Who gives two ****s how good out batting average was? Multiple times this year I saw us get 3 hits an inning and score 0 runs. Thats an issue.

Todd here's my question for you and the others with Cohen Blinders on.............. Why do we have singles swings and approaches, even with our larger, supposedly more powerful hitters?


Ok hitting has changed....power at every level of the game all across baseball is down from 15-20 years ago. Could you find out from some of these better hitting instructors you know why that is?

[Jacksondevildog]

As long as our hitters are being taught to "flick" the ball through the infield, we will never drive the baseball and put up big numbers. That has to change now.

[engie]

Todd you make some good points, but are overlooking some critical things and I'm wondering the last time you've actually talked to a current MLB player or hitting coach. I'm serious. Your statements make me think you have 1990's hitting philosophy outlooks and have no knowledge of current hitting philosophies. I played with current players in the bigs and know some of the better hitting instructors in baseball. Hitting has changed in the last 15-20 years, at every level. Physics was the main cause.

Look at where our hitters hands start as opposed to where ULL and OM hitters hands start. Where the hands are, pre swing, makes a huge difference in power. We have our hands in singles hand position. Most times hitters put their hands there with 2 strikes. We have ours there all the time.

Im not saying Cohen is teaching the WRONG FUNDAMENTALS. I'm saying he isnt teaching anything fundamental wise. Where our hitters hands are, pre swing, are only good enough for singles. Our hands are pecs to shoulder. To obtain power you need armpit to a couple inches behind armpit. If our hitters moved their hands 4-6 inches back, pre swing, and practiced, our power numbers would jump dramatically. If we also worked on front leg stabilization, power would jump more.

YES WES REA, should be dropping 10 bombs a year minimum. With ULL's hitting instructor Rea would have 15+. It physics. He has leverage. With proper teaching he can use that leverage and put more power into the ball.

Who gives two ****s how good out batting average was? Multiple times this year I saw us get 3 hits an inning and score 0 runs. Thats an issue.

Todd here's my question for you and the others with Cohen Blinders on.............. Why do we have singles swings and approaches, even with our larger, supposedly more powerful hitters?

I can assure you Todd's immediate family is about as connected to MLB as anyone. And I'm also pretty certain the physics of baseball hasn't changed in the last 15 years.

The problem is the amount of time these school-paid coaches ACTUALLY are allowed to spend with the players. There is simply not enough time for individual instruction on the levels that you suggest -- and would cause high violation of practice time rules that we're already under a microscope on thanks to the lawsuits. It takes hours and hours in the cage to "change a swing" -- and that STILL doesn't reflect the amount of adjustments that have to be made AFTER games are being played in order to patch holes in the new swing that didn't show up until you went live...

Ideally, you have an ace hitting coach as a "volunteer assistant" that bypasses a bunch of the rules. But you aren't ever going to get a known quantity to fill that role without making promises.

The problem is the suggestion that all of our hitters should take a single approach at the plate. That's unrealistic. Ever consider that maybe we take alot of singles approaches at the plate BECAUSE Lane recruited alot of singles hitters? You keep implying that we're turning power guys into singles guys and that's just not true. We've had bad luck with the power guys we've recruited outside of Renfroe. Flair couldn't find a position, Garner is well on his way to that, we've had several that haven't shown up, and Rea has stayed injured and had little time for actual development. I've still never seen us turn a homerun machine into a singles guy -- and you haven't either. You point out the Rea example, when the very PROBLEM with Rea is that he gets lost between two separate approaches at the plate, never completely buying into either one.

If you would just say that you would prefer a Godwin-type in place of Mingione, no one would argue with you about it, and most would agree. The fact that you keep using the guy at ULL with all of his known baggage is reason for pause though...

[smootness]

If hitting philosophy has changed over the last 15-20 years, then please tell them to change it back. Hitting all across baseball, but especially at the MLB level, is drastically below what it was then.

A lot of people will point to steroids, but I actually think a lot of it has to do with changes in the baseball.

Either way, you're insane if you think the mechanics of hitters like Ted Williams has been completely changed now. The same basic principles hold true.

One, we recruited a lot of singles hitters. It just is what it is.

Two, no, moving your hands 4-6 inches pre-swing does not make a drastic difference. Your hands are extremely important, but you can get them in the right spot during your swing no matter where they are pre-swing.

Cohen Blinders....good grief, man.

[ScottH]

If you would just say that you would prefer a Godwin-type in place of Mingione, no one would argue with you about it, and most would agree..

Hopefully Godwin moves on after Omaha. He is on 3 head coaching candidate lists I have seen. I'm sure more.

His decision will be if he is willing to take a pay cut to be a head coach.

You can give him 100% of the credit for all the good young players UM has.

[CadaverDawg]

I feel like this is Butch Thompson 2010 all over again.

First of all, our hitting will be better next year. Hitting is going to be the focus of the offseason, and as I outlined the other day, literally all of our hitters are off to very fast starts in their respective summer leagues. Yes, that's not a guarantee that they will tear it up next season- but it's also not a bad thing either. Ole Miss literally had the same team batting average and many of the exact same struggles that we had this year in 2013. Now they lead the SEC in hitting. A lot of that is because they have almost all juniors and seniors. Our catcher is only a sophomore but he had a good season and has a chance to make the US collegiate national team next year. He had a great night tonight on opening day in the Cape. We start three seniors on the infield and one junior who played on FSU's CWS team. We will also start a senior, a redshirt sophomore, and a sophomore who was drafted by the Nationals in the outfield next year, and then our probably DH has hit 3 home runs in three games for his summer league team. That also doesn't include Brent Rooker who is hitting .333 with a double and a home run for his team in 9 AB's and Dylan Ingram who was hitting .571 for his team. We will have more power and we will hit better next year. Mark it down.

Secondly, if you think that Cohen is teaching the wrong fundamentals, you are nuts. If that was the case NONE of our guys would be hitting rather than SOME. Why would you teach the proper technique to Hunter Renfroe, Brett Pirtle, Adam Frazier, Jarrod Parks, etc. and not everyone else? If all of those guys had the same summer league hitting coach, I could maybe by that argument. But they didn't.

Next- Matt Deggs. He didn't take A&M to new heights. He was fired. Why would the hitting coach at a then Big 12 school take a job as he hitting coach of a Sun Belt school? He was actually out of baseball for a year or two. So, how is he all of a sudden having success at ULL that LSU mysteriously somehow missed out on in their backyard? Think about it. I know you said a hitting coach "like" ULL's- and I'm just putting this out there for people who may be wondering.

And then Wes Rea. You're upset that a guy that was recruited as a pitcher isn't hitting 10 home runs every year? Well, OK. Wes is a big guy. Being 6'3" or whatever Wes is doesn't mean that you WILL hit with power. It doesn't mean that you can generate the bat speed, recognize the strike zone, not be selfish, have your timing down, etc. It just means that you have more power POTENTIAL. Rea was not an elite level recruit when he came in- not anything like Renfroe, Humphreys, Collins, etc. His best year was when he had protection from Renfroe. Wes is going to need that from Collins, Humphreys, and Garner next year- and I think he will get that and it will help him immensely. There was no reason to throw Wes a strike last year. None. And on top of that, I think it caused him to try to do too much. And his ahem...mechanics suffered because of it along with everything else. I think we will see a motivated Wes next year.

Our team batting average was .275. Some of the teams in the CWS- Virginia with several first round picks- .281, Vanderbilt .282, Pepperdine .281, TCU .283, Cal-Irvine .272, and Texas .268, Texas Tech .287.

This says it all. We will rake next year and a certain poster will be saying, "well it looks like Cohen finally started doing what I said he should do". Rinse, repeat

[engie]

Hopefully Godwin moves on after Omaha. He is on 3 head coaching candidate lists I have seen. I'm sure more.

His decision will be if he is willing to take a pay cut to be a head coach.

You can give him 100% of the credit for all the good young players UM has.

He gone to his alma mater is the word on the street...

[I seen it dawg]

You guys are nuts. You make too much sense.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Our hitting problems this year were 95% due to lack of mature power hitters- the majority of players we did have with power potential lacked the experience to translate it into games (Humphreys, Collins, Garner, redshirts Rooker, Ingram, Swinarski, etc.). Everyone who follows our recruiting knows that we've got a lot more power and size coming up in the next several years, so hopefully the problem solves itself with better size/talent.

[messageboardsuperhero]

He gone to his alma mater is the word on the street...

I've heard the same thing. Kendall Rogers has been hinting about it as well.

You certainly wouldn't see me shed a tear if Goodwin leaves Oxford- he's a helluva coach.

[ScottH]

He gone to his alma mater is the word on the street...

Correct. He is the fan's number one choice but money is a problem.

The ECU job pays not much. The fired ECU coach was only in the 140K range.

Something may have changed since the weekend but as of then getting the pay right plus a significantly increased budget for assistants and recruiting were BIG hurdles with the AD according to a friend of mine well entrenched in ECU baseball.

The Godwin disciples say he has a "magical" recruiting formula he has developed but it takes a good sized budget and some manpower to support it. It is supposedly a compilation of the creative philosophies he learned at LSU and Vandy. I guess with a little Notre Dame and UM thrown in to boot.

He was on Tulane's short list and since Rick Jones made 250K it made sense. But they hired Sam Houston's coach.

[Coach34]

want to hit better and for more power?

Then we need to get away from starting soooo many singles hitters like Heck, Henderson, Armstrong, Vickerson, Pirtle, Detz, and CT...no matter who their hitting coach is- they are small little singles hitters

[smootness]

Yep, you were never turning Pirtle, Detz, and Henderson into guys with a lot of pop, even if it was gap power. It was somewhat of a miracle just to turn Pirtle into the hitter he became.

Of course, when I say that, I'm just talking about 99.99% of the population. We all know what RougeDawg could do with them**

Next year, we'll have Heck and Holland, who probably won't have much pop. And we'll probably start Vickerson and maybe Robson, so we'll still have our share of singles hitters. But we'll also see a lot more of Humphreys, Garner, and Collins, along with Dylan Ingram, Rooker, Swinarski, and possibly a couple of freshmen like Cole Gordon.

It won't be a problem going forward. It's been said a million times, but it's about personnel much more than it is our hitting philosophy.

[Todd4State]

Todd you make some good points, but are overlooking some critical things and I'm wondering the last time you've actually talked to a current MLB player or hitting coach. I'm serious. Your statements make me think you have 1990's hitting philosophy outlooks and have no knowledge of current hitting philosophies. I played with current players in the bigs and know some of the better hitting instructors in baseball. Hitting has changed in the last 15-20 years, at every level. Physics was the main cause.

Look at where our hitters hands start as opposed to where ULL and OM hitters hands start. Where the hands are, pre swing, makes a huge difference in power. We have our hands in singles hand position. Most times hitters put their hands there with 2 strikes. We have ours there all the time.

Im not saying Cohen is teaching the WRONG FUNDAMENTALS. I'm saying he isnt teaching anything fundamental wise. Where our hitters hands are, pre swing, are only good enough for singles. Our hands are pecs to shoulder. To obtain power you need armpit to a couple inches behind armpit. If our hitters moved their hands 4-6 inches back, pre swing, and practiced, our power numbers would jump dramatically. If we also worked on front leg stabilization, power would jump more.

YES WES REA, should be dropping 10 bombs a year minimum. With ULL's hitting instructor Rea would have 15+. It physics. He has leverage. With proper teaching he can use that leverage and put more power into the ball.

Who gives two ****s how good out batting average was? Multiple times this year I saw us get 3 hits an inning and score 0 runs. Thats an issue.

Todd here's my question for you and the others with Cohen Blinders on.............. Why do we have singles swings and approaches, even with our larger, supposedly more powerful hitters?

We don't. Rea doesn't have that approach and neither did Renfroe. Collins, Humphreys, and Garner don't have it either. We had one legit power guy that wasn't a freshman last year- and that was Rea.

[Todd4State]

want to hit better and for more power?

Then we need to get away from starting soooo many singles hitters like Heck, Henderson, Armstrong, Vickerson, Pirtle, Detz, and CT...no matter who their hitting coach is- they are small little singles hitters

This is correct. And we are doing that.

[smootness]

If Garner had a singles approach, I would hope he wouldn't strike out in 75% of his SEC ABs.

[Todd4State]

Correct. He is the fan's number one choice but money is a problem.

The ECU job pays not much. The fired ECU coach was only in the 140K range.

Something may have changed since the weekend but as of then getting the pay right plus a significantly increased budget for assistants and recruiting were BIG hurdles with the AD according to a friend of mine well entrenched in ECU baseball.

The Godwin disciples say he has a "magical" recruiting formula he has developed but it takes a good sized budget and some manpower to support it. It is supposedly a compilation of the creative philosophies he learned at LSU and Vandy. I guess with a little Notre Dame and UM thrown in to boot.

He was on Tulane's short list and since Rick Jones made 250K it made sense. But they hired Sam Houston's coach.

I think his magical recruiting formula is to recruit Florida.

If East Carolina's AD isn't willing to give up 100K, he is more of a tightwad than LT.

[Todd4State]

If Garner had a singles approach, I would hope he wouldn't strike out in 75% of his SEC ABs.

No kidding.