7 Days Until World Cup

[TheRef]

Just figured I would do this since we are one week out from the greatest Futbol tournament in the World.

ESPN WC Challenge: http://games.espn.go.com/world-cup-bracket-predictor/2014/en/group?groupID=14502

Brackets are due by Thursday, June 12 at 2:00 PM CDT.

[DudyDawg]

Thanks for the reminder, Ref. Really getting excited about this. So many story lines with players out and the massive amount of talent, young especially, in the tournament

[TheRef]

Thanks for the reminder, Ref. Really getting excited about this. So many story lines with players out and the massive amount of talent, young especially, in the tournament

Oh I'm getting giddy about this. Good transition from baseball to football.

[smootness]

I can't wait. There are going to be some extremely exciting teams to watch in the tournament, namely Brazil, Germany, and Argentina. And Spain remains fun to watch as well.

I'm interested to see some upstarts like Colombia and Belgium, but I'm guessing, as usually happens to teams like that once they actually get to the World Cup, they get brought back to reality and disappoint.

Soccer will always be about Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy, France, and Spain. They've proven over time to be able to consistently produce players and teams.

[DudyDawg]

I don't consider Argentina a world power, at least in Messi's run, until they make noise. I think that since Maradona retired, they are a cut below those other names. I think one team that isn't getting enough pub is France. They had a horrid last world cup, legal scandals, and a whole mess of problems, but I see them as a sleeper to make a run this season. Very strong in midfield

[TheRef]

France does have a pretty good XI. I have them going all of the way to the Quarters against Germany.

[Pioneer Dawg]

I think Messi and company win this one.

Argentina vs Brazil Final will be insane

[starkvegasdawg]

I never good get into soccer. Not that I really tried, though. Just a game that has zero appeal to me. I throw hockey in the same boat. I know world wide I am in the minority because my company used to have several foreign nationals from Europe over here and the last time there was a big soccer tournament (may have been the world cup for all I know) they were all huddled in the breakroom in the middle of the day watching it. They had to agree to work OT to make up the time. Maybe one day I will see the appeal in a sport that you can walk away from for 45 minutes and essentially not miss anything and 3-0 is an absolute blowout.

[DudyDawg]

I think Messi and company win this one.

Argentina vs Brazil Final will be insane

Until Messi does something on the world stage, not only will he always have questions about his legacy, but I will not bet on Argentina to make a run. Too weak of a defense, especially with their best player crumbling in past WC.

[DudyDawg]

I never good get into soccer. Not that I really tried, though. Just a game that has zero appeal to me. I throw hockey in the same boat. I know world wide I am in the minority because my company used to have several foreign nationals from Europe over here and the last time there was a big soccer tournament (may have been the world cup for all I know) they were all huddled in the breakroom in the middle of the day watching it. They had to agree to work OT to make up the time. Maybe one day I will see the appeal in a sport that you can walk away from for 45 minutes and essentially not miss anything and 3-0 is an absolute blowout.

I think the same argument could be used about baseball, minus the fact that baseball has constant stoppages and soccer only has one. It just is personal preference over what sports you're willing to spend time and money on I suppose

[smootness]

I don't like hockey, but it has nothing to do with the low-scoring nature of it. It has a lot more to do with the fact that players are only on the ice for about 45 seconds at a time, the best players are only out there for about 1/3 of a game, and the whole sports seems so arbitrary. I can't get into a sport in which so much of it is about just getting in front of the net and creating havoc so that the puck can somehow slip in. I'm more drawn to sports in which someone has to make a play in order to do something productive. I understand why some love it, I'm just not one of them.

I've grown to love soccer, mostly for the purity of the sport. It's played with just one ball and very little rules. There is out of bounds and offsides, and obviously penalties, but aside from that it's just about figuring out a way to get the ball up the field and in the net.

And it's both very much a team sport in that one player isn't going to come in and beat someone by himself, but a star player can also still have a massive impact on a game. And the brilliance of a player is easily seen and detected. Even people who don't know much about soccer know a great player just by watching him play. In baseball, you may see a great hitter go 0-4 with 2 Ks, or you may see someone not hit the ball to a great 3B. In basketball, it's more obvious but you can still see a great player go on a cold stretch and not really see his greatness. In soccer, it's always apparent, even if it doesn't result in goals.

And the low-scoring nature is one thing I love about it. It's awesome to me that while what you said is correct, that you can leave for 45 minutes and not really miss anything, it's also true that you can turn around for 15 seconds and miss everything. You never know when the play that decides the match will occur, and that's exciting. It's a constant build-up, and when you do finally score, it's massive.

In football, if you score a TD, that's great, but you're expecting several more. It makes each one less meaningful. In soccer, that may be it, you may have just won the game in the 4th minute. They're just different sports, but I like them both for what they each bring to the table.

ETA: The one thing I hate about soccer, that sometimes makes it hard to watch, is the diving. They need to be quicker to card players for obvious dives. It's stupid and hurts the sport.

[dawgs]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/04/cristiano-ronaldo-portugal-ghana-witch-doctor

For the usa's sake, let's hope this witch doctor keeps working his magic.

World Cup is the best time to work from home full time. And it's nearly everyday. And it lasts a month! It's better than the ncaa tourney.

[dawgs]

NBA is just as big in flopping as soccer. I also roll my eyes when someone loves basketball but hates soccer "because of the flopping".

[smootness]

NBA is just as big in flopping as soccer. I also roll my eyes when someone loves basketball but hates soccer "because of the flopping".

It's definitely getting there, and it's making the NBA even more unwatchable than it already was. It still hasn't reached the level of soccer, though. You generally can't go 5 minutes in a soccer match without seeing someone at least embellish while falling to the ground. And it's pretty easily fixable; I don't know why they're so cautious to card people for it.

But I love that you read my lengthy post about how and why I love soccer and then concluded that I hate soccer.

I hate flopping, that's all I said. I love soccer. I just wish they would work to cut the flopping out.

[dawgs]

I just was making a general statement about "flopping" after I saw your caveat about it. That's all. Sure it's annoying, but dudes feign shit in every sport to manipulate the refs. They frame pitches in baseball, they flop on basketball, they hold inside the pads on every play in football, it's all the same shit IMO. You either like the sport or you don't, but flopping doesn't have any bearing on whether you ultimately like it or not. It's just that if you don't like a sport you harp on the negatives. If you do like a sport, you ignore or minimize the negatives.

[smootness]

I just was making a general statement about "flopping" after I saw your caveat about it. That's all. Sure it's annoying, but dudes feign shit in every sport to manipulate the refs. They frame pitches in baseball, they flop on basketball, they hold inside the pads on every play in football, it's all the same shit IMO. You either like the sport or you don't, but flopping doesn't have any bearing on whether you ultimately like it or not. It's just that if you don't like a sport you harp on the negatives. If you do like a sport, you ignore or minimize the negatives.

This is true, but diving is a big negative. I listed all the positives and just one negative. Diving is not part of soccer, at least it doesn't have to be.

I get that people will always try to get any edge they can and blur the lines of the rules, but there's a difference, to me, in acting like a ball didn't go out of bounds when it did (similar to pitch framing to me) or trying to use your body more than is technically allowed to get position (similar to subtle holding) and just falling down to try to get a call. It's like a baseball player falling down and acting like they got hit by a pitch when they didn't. It's on another level to me, and it's bush league and cheap.

[TheRef]

I will give the NBA credit for this, they aren't afraid to hand out those flopping penalties (with the exception of big-money players of course). As someone with officiating experience, albiet Intramurals, if I see someone flop I'll call the foul on them for a block (if they're flopping a charge). That usually stops it quickly and if they complain I just reply with, "I know you're flopping...don't try it again or else I'll call another one."

[smootness]

I will give the NBA credit for this, they aren't afraid to hand out those flopping penalties (with the exception of big-money players of course). As someone with officiating experience, albiet Intramurals, if I see someone flop I'll call the foul on them for a block (if they're flopping a charge). That usually stops it quickly and if they complain I just reply with, "I know you're flopping...don't try it again or else I'll call another one."

You're a good ref. I with there were more out there with cojones.

[TheRef]

You're a good ref. I with there were more out there with cojones.

Players don't like it the first couple of times, but they learn to not flop on your court. Now if it's a close one, I'll generally let it pass or give them the foul because there's a legitimacy with it. One thing I hate is when they're falling back, flailing their arms, and yelling at the top of their lungs. That'll get you the opposite call as fast as I can get my fist up to signal the foul.

[DudyDawg]

I don't think you'll ever seen league fines for flopping in soccer due to the number of leagues and competitions, it's not just an nba that can create complete rules. Also, I think diving and acting, to a degree, will always be in the game. It's part of the game and part of the soccer cultures in South America largely. That's why so many of them are seen as flippers (Neymar). The flair they have with the ball is also the flair on the ground

[TheRef]

I don't think you'll ever seen league fines for flopping in soccer due to the number of leagues and competitions, it's not just an nba that can create complete rules. Also, I think diving and acting, to a degree, will always be in the game. It's part of the game and part of the soccer cultures in South America largely. That's why so many of them are seen as flippers (Neymar). The flair they have with the ball is also the flair on the ground

True. I swear sometimes they ought to have an Oscar category for best acting on the pitch. THAT would be a funny Oscar to watch. Highlight reels of their acting on the pitch during a match. Like when one player in a second-tier European League was literally touched on the shoulder by another player and he collapsed on the ground acting like he just got shot by a .50-cal (exaggeration, but go with it). That would be fun.

[DudyDawg]

True. I swear sometimes they ought to have an Oscar category for best acting on the pitch. THAT would be a funny Oscar to watch. Highlight reels of their acting on the pitch during a match. Like when one player in a second-tier European League was literally touched on the shoulder by another player and he collapsed on the ground acting like he just got shot by a .50-cal (exaggeration, but go with it). That would be fun.

Haha that would be epic.

I think the only thing that can really be done is a rule change by fifa that gives referees the ability to book players for diving much faster than the rules do now. Of course, that would be hard due to the personal interpretation involved, but it would certainly help.

[smootness]

I don't think you'll ever seen league fines for flopping in soccer due to the number of leagues and competitions, it's not just an nba that can create complete rules. Also, I think diving and acting, to a degree, will always be in the game. It's part of the game and part of the soccer cultures in South America largely. That's why so many of them are seen as flippers (Neymar). The flair they have with the ball is also the flair on the ground

Well, Pele is the one who recently called Neymar out and said that he wouldn't become the player he could be until he stopped doing it. And he's right. While just about everyone dives to some degree, generally the best players in the world are less averse to contact and can actually remain standing and continue to try to score even with players around them.

It's become part of the game because officials have allowed it to be. Period. Like I said, it's fairly easily fixed if you want to fix it.

[DudyDawg]

Well, Pele is the one who recently called Neymar out and said that he wouldn't become the player he could be until he stopped doing it. And he's right. While just about everyone dives to some degree, generally the best players in the world are less averse to contact and can actually remain standing and continue to try to score even with players around them.

It's become part of the game because officials have allowed it to be. Period. Like I said, it's fairly easily fixed if you want to fix it.

I don't think it's as easy as you think it is. The biggest thing the NBA is doing is fines. There's not a way to do that in a universal sense in soccer. And I disagree that referees have allowed it to become part of the game. It's been a part of the game since the day someone rolled a ball out hundreds of years BC

[smootness]

I don't think it's as easy as you think it is. The biggest thing the NBA is doing is fines. There's not a way to do that in a universal sense in soccer. And I disagree that referees have allowed it to become part of the game. It's been a part of the game since the day someone rolled a ball out hundreds of years BC

It's become a much bigger problem recently than it was before because players are seeing they will get calls by doing it.

I'm not just talking about refs when I say 'officials'. I'm talking about those in charge of making and enforcing rules, governing bodies, etc.

The first thing the refs themselves can do is to stop calling fouls unless they actually see a foul. If players see that they aren't being rewarded for flopping and by doing so they may have lost at least an outside opportunity on goal, they'll stop doing it some.

FIFA officials need to work to figure out how to combat the problem, then work to get the leagues themselves to implement and enforce the rules. If governing bodies truly wanted to do away with diving, they could do it. Make it an instant yellow card any time a player is determined to have clearly dived, then make it a red on the second instance. But officials are concerned with removing key players from games too often, so it doesn't get done.

I understand it isn't always easy to determine if a player took a dive, but for clear examples, the player should be carded immediately. Basically, if a player goes flying through the air and screams in pain, and no penalty is called, it should be a penalty on the player on the ground. If the ref determined there was no penalty, yet a player is writhing in seeming anguish, then it is obviously the ref's determination that the player took a dive and is faking it.

[DudyDawg]

I agree that diving needs to diminish. The problem with a few things you said is this. One is the premise that the foul is the reward for flopping. It isn't always. A large number of the flops are on clear, called fouls. The flop is to dry a yellow card on a player not just to get a foul. Another problem I have is the last thing you said. In soccer, and any sport, players consistently get hurt on a play that isn't a foul. So that last thing basically says if you get hurt on a clean play then it is a book able offense.

Again, not saying I want diving to stay in the game, but what you need to realize is the massive difference in NBA taking steps to get rid of it and the thousands of individual leagues under and not under FIFA taking those steps

[dawgs]

Maybe an extra ref or 2 could give more, better views of contact to determine whether it was a foul, flop, or clean play? The pitch is plenty big, it'd just put more eyes on the field, which increases the likelihood of a clean view of the play.

http://gfycat.com/ActualScrawnyGyrfalcon

[DudyDawg]

Maybe an extra ref or 2 could give more, better views of contact to determine whether it was a foul, flop, or clean play? The pitch is plenty big, it'd just put more eyes on the field, which increases the likelihood of a clean view of the play.

http://gfycat.com/ActualScrawnyGyrfalcon

The problem with that is when one ref calls a foul, one doesn't, the far guy calls it buy the close guy doesn't think it was one. I reffed soccer in my younger days as a summer job kind of thing and sometimes we had just two center refs. And the problems with two referees with a whistle are so much larger than having one.

[smootness]

I agree that diving needs to diminish. The problem with a few things you said is this. One is the premise that the foul is the reward for flopping. It isn't always. A large number of the flops are on clear, called fouls. The flop is to dry a yellow card on a player not just to get a foul. Another problem I have is the last thing you said. In soccer, and any sport, players consistently get hurt on a play that isn't a foul. So that last thing basically says if you get hurt on a clean play then it is a book able offense.

Again, not saying I want diving to stay in the game, but what you need to realize is the massive difference in NBA taking steps to get rid of it and the thousands of individual leagues under and not under FIFA taking those steps

These are good points.

I'm not that concerned with 'dives' on a play that is an actual foul. The ref should be able to determine, based on what actually happened, whether it warrants a card or not. Those are not the ones that I think are ruining the game.

The dives I'm mostly talking about are the ones that occur when there is minimal, or in some cases no, contact at all. They definitely happen, and those need to be stopped. In regard to plays in which there is some contact but no foul, it is generally fairly clear if it could have resulted in a player being seriously injured or not.

Perhaps the solution is to tell a player that if they stay on the ground for a set amount of time, they must come off the field and stay off for a set amount of time. For instance, if a player stays on the field for 20 seconds without getting up, they must leave the field and either be subbed for or remain off the field for 5 minutes.

That is a serious enough penalty that it should result in players at least getting up more quickly when they're not actually hurt but not serious enough that it severely impairs a team whose player is legitimately in pain but is able to get over it rather quickly.

But there is a serious problem right now with players jumping onto the ground, writhing in anguish, then getting up and continuing to play with no ill effects, and there has to be something that can be done to curtail it.

[DudyDawg]

Completely agree that there needs to be punishment for feigning an injury. I'll never argue you there. My point is solely that it is very hard from a rule standpoint to make a universal change. However, a lot of leagues have started to give more leeway to referees to judge if a player Is faking and to card him. Also in a lot more leagues, mainly MLS, there is now retrospective punishment for diving, fouls, etc. I think that kind of punishment will really help the game if it can be instilled by a major body like UEFA