vacated wins list

[FISHDAWG]

interesting .... was our record ever changed to reflect this revision ?

http://deadspin.com/5929290/here-are-your-all+time-vacated-wins-leaders-in-division-i-college-football

[engie]

interesting .... was our record ever changed to reflect this revision ?

http://deadspin.com/5929290/here-are-your-all+time-vacated-wins-leaders-in-division-i-college-football

"Vacated wins" do not change the record of the losing team(us) -- just removes them from the win-column for the winning team. Losers still lose the game. Forfeits are when the records of both teams are changed -- but that system hasn't been used since the early 90s, I don't believe. Our record certainly reflects the 19 wins and 1 tie that we forfeited in the 70s.

Personally, I wish they'd go back and do away with forfeits altogether and apply vacated wins in all those scenarios. A 38+ game swing from a minor infraction has forever skewed the record books in a huge way against MSU...

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19780524&id=WlRNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=qfoDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6370,7222454

[FlabLoser]

They should absolutely award wins for loses that were vacated.

In the game of football, when a team breaks the rules and a foul is called, the opposing team is rewarded something, usually yardage. There is a reason that holding penalties are a 10 yard penalty instead of just a do-over.

For the same reason, vacated wins should be awarded to the opposing teams.

[engie]

They should absolutely award wins for loses that were vacated.

In the game of football, when a team breaks the rules and a foul is called, the opposing team is rewarded something, usually yardage. There is a reason that holding penalties are a 10 yard penalty instead of just a do-over.

For the same reason, vacated wins should be awarded to the opposing teams.

When did a 15 yard penalty result in a lost game? When did it result in points? Invalid comparison is invalid.

Should not be giving away wins that were won on the field. Nor should you show losses that you won on the field. Vacating is a good medium IMO...

You give us back the ones we forfeited -- the entire complexion of our program longterm is different...

[FISHDAWG]

it seems pretty simple to me - if you get caught cheating then the other team should recv the win .... one team is developed as per specs and the other team is developed with an advantage ... nascar wouldn't let something like that slip

[engie]

it seems pretty simple to me - if you get caught cheating then the other team should recv the win .... one team is developed as per specs and the other team is developed with an advantage ... nascar wouldn't let something like that slip

So, Oklahoma should be awarded a national title for a game they lost 55-19 -- because Reggie Bush's parents lived in a free house in LA? Sorry -- I disagree. Forfeits change too much about the course of history -- hence why they are no longer a thing. There's also a big ass difference between "catching a team cheating" in the moment and forcing them to forfeit -- and coming back YEARS later and forcing them to forfeit.

Again, comparing it to Nascar is ridiculous. Not even remotely the same thing. Guessing you've never read up on what actually happened to us in the 70s. But, hey, I'm sure you'd be cool with them stripping Jimmy Johnson of all his titles if the realize he was cheating YEARS after the fact -- and then awarding those titles to all the different people that came in second. Can you link me to this ever happening in Nascar? Because that's how it happens 99% of the time in college football.

[FISHDAWG]

so you're ok with an opponent stacking the deck against you before you even play .... yeah, I was around in the 70's ... I had friends, team mates, and relatives play football @ State in that decade and I know where you're going with that - I'm not saying only when it's in our favor..... as far as Reggie bush, what if he had signed with an honest recruiting effort from Oklahoma and played against a USC team without Reggie Bush .... not saying the outcome would have drastically changed but I think you can get my point .... actually I care nothing at all about nascar or Jimmy Johnson - and if I remember correctly it seems like nascar has stripped the win from drivers that have been found cheating ... what is the difference in time between 2 or 3 days and two or three years

[engie]

so you're ok with an opponent stacking the deck against you before you even play
Are you really naive enough to believe that EVERYONE isn't doing everything in their power to stack the deck in their favor before the games are played? You really think that only some are cheating while the rest of us play by all the rules?


yeah, I was around in the 70's ... I had friends, team mates, and relatives play football @ State in that decade and I know where you're going with that - I'm not saying only when it's in our favor.....
So, you are totally ok with the fact that the entire HISTORY BOOK of MSU football was rewritten because of discounts given at a clothing store? Discounts that were available to all students by the way -- and we got a historic hose job on? Yeah, major unfair "stacked deck" advantage that was** You are fine with a 40 game swing on our win/loss record all-time -- which would give us an all-time winning record right now and GREATLY change the longterm perception of our program? 42-61 in the Egg Bowl looks alot worse than the actual 44-59 to me.


as far as Reggie bush, what if he had signed with an honest recruiting effort from Oklahoma and played against a USC team without Reggie Bush
Reggie Bush infractions were not recruiting infractions -- they were while he was a current player on campus, committed by an agent hopeful of signing him and getting a big payday in the NFL draft -- and "failed to monitor" by USC. So, how does it provide USC an actual unfair advantage or his family to be able to live in LA and see the games? Real answer, it doesn't.


actually I care nothing at all about nascar or Jimmy Johnson - and if I remember correctly it seems like nascar has stripped the win from drivers that have been found cheating
A win is drastically different than a season. Link me to stripped seasons when guys were "caught cheating" LONG after they had started doing it?


what is the difference in time between 2 or 3 days and two or three years
2-3 HOURS you mean...and 2-3 years? If you can't see the difference there, I can't help you. There is a reason that breaking up a couple hours after marriage is an annulment and doesn't cost you anything of consequence -- while breaking up after a couple of years of marriage is a divorce and costs you half of everything. The amount of time the brain has to process info has EVERYTHING to do with how it accepts these things...

IDGAF if Reggie Bush still has the Heisman and if USC still has their crystal football -- I know who won those games and that trophy on the field, and that's all that matters to me and most of America at this point...

[Hump4Hoops]

"Vacated wins" do not change the record of the losing team(us) -- just removes them from the win-column for the winning team. Losers still lose the game.

It's amazing how many people still don't realize this. I see this thread pop up so often.