Here's an interesting article on bunting for a hit

[Todd4State]

It's a pretty quick and easy read.


http://www.billjamesonline.com/bunting_for_a_hit/

[dickiedawg]

That BA while bunting for a hit is almost shockingly high- though it is deceptive, as a commenter pointed out, in that in order for an attempt to qualify you have to get the bunt down.

[Todd4State]

That BA while bunting for a hit is almost shockingly high- though it is deceptive, as a commenter pointed out, in that in order for an attempt to qualify you have to get the bunt down.

That should be understood though. Or at least to me it should be.

[smootness]

That BA while bunting for a hit is almost shockingly high- though it is deceptive, as a commenter pointed out, in that in order for an attempt to qualify you have to get the bunt down.

You also won't walk much when bunting, as you are more likely to keep the bunt down on a pitch just outside than you are to swing, and obviously the best possible result is a single. So while your BA might improve some if you put more bunts down, your OBP and SLG will probably suffer.

I'm not using that as an argument against the strategy necessarily. I think bunting for a hit is definitely a better strategy than some think, especially for the guys who are more likely to succeed at it, the Billy Hamilton types (I know there's only one Billy Hamilton). And those guys are more likely to steal as well, which makes their SLG less important and makes them more impactful with a lower OBP than another guy.

I like the point that doing it more often will draw the defense in some and give you better angles if you swing away.

[RougeDawg]

Look I wouldn't care if we bunted every AB the entire game, IF ANY OF OUR HITTERS HAD A ****ING CLUE HOW TO BUNT PROPERLY. we never get the bat out in front of the plate like you are supposed to. We stab at the ball instead of bending knees to adjust to pitch height and catch the ball on the bat. We don't point the handle/knob at the opposite base we are trying to bunt toward. And lastly on our sac bunts, we don't start squaring around until the ball is in the air. This causes the other bad habits and mechanics. For those of you who watch every game you should easily recognize these things I just pointed out.

Being successful bunting has a whole hell of a lot more to do with how well your players bunt, than the situation or amount of times you bunt. But some of you will never get this through your thick skulls and will back Cohen even though our hitters either, A) haven't been thought how or B) don't listen to our coaches, on how to bunt properly.

[smootness]

You don't square around and get the ball in front of the plate generally when you're trying to bunt for a hit.

[Todd4State]

Look I wouldn't care if we bunted every AB the entire game, IF ANY OF OUR HITTERS HAD A ****ING CLUE HOW TO BUNT PROPERLY. we never get the bat out in front of the plate like you are supposed to. We stab at the ball instead of bending knees to adjust to pitch height and catch the ball on the bat. We don't point the handle/knob at the opposite base we are trying to bunt toward. And lastly on our sac bunts, we don't start squaring around until the ball is in the air. This causes the other bad habits and mechanics. For those of you who watch every game you should easily recognize these things I just pointed out.

Being successful bunting has a whole hell of a lot more to do with how well your players bunt, than the situation or amount of times you bunt. But some of you will never get this through your thick skulls and will back Cohen even though our hitters either, A) haven't been thought how or B) don't listen to our coaches, on how to bunt properly.

We don't do what I would consider "true sac bunts" where you square around and give yourself up immediately before the pitch is thrown. Even if it is a sacrifice situation, we are trying to give ourselves a chance to get on. We do stab at balls too much when we bunt- but I guarantee you that they are not taught to do that. Just because the coaches tell the players to do something in a game, doesn't mean that they ARE going to do it during a game. That holds true at the big league level.

[Todd4State]

You don't square around and get the ball in front of the plate generally when you're trying to bunt for a hit.

Good point.

[ClancyDawg]

.

[RougeDawg]

We don't do what I would consider "true sac bunts" where you square around and give yourself up immediately before the pitch is thrown. Even if it is a sacrifice situation, we are trying to give ourselves a chance to get on. We do stab at balls too much when we bunt- but I guarantee you that they are not taught to do that. Just because the coaches tell the players to do something in a game, doesn't mean that they ARE going to do it during a game. That holds true at the big league level.

You sir habent the slightest clue what you are talking about. Of you are bunting for a base hit, it's an entirely different approach. And you don't bunt to get on base if you are truly trying to sacrifice someone over. When trying to sacrifice you use the proper technique to her the bunt down. Foul balls and missed attempts don't cut it in this situation. The only time you wait until the pitcher is about to release the ball is when you are bunting for a base hit, and you either drop it down 3rd or push it toward gap between 2b and 1B. You won't see any of our hitters doing this because they struggle tremendously with the easy sac bunt.

[smootness]

You sir habent the slightest clue what you are talking about. Of you are bunting for a base hit, it's an entirely different approach. And you don't bunt to get on base if you are truly trying to sacrifice someone over. When trying to sacrifice you use the proper technique to her the bunt down. Foul balls and missed attempts don't cut it in this situation. The only time you wait until the pitcher is about to release the ball is when you are bunting for a base hit, and you either drop it down 3rd or push it toward gap between 2b and 1B. You won't see any of our hitters doing this because they struggle tremendously with the easy sac bunt.

I'm not sure what you thought Todd was saying, but you aren't disagreeing with him. You may not like that we don't try to put down pure sac bunts or pure bunts-for-hit, but it does appear we try to go halfway between them a good bit.

[RougeDawg]

Hmm.. Anyone see that Bammer get the bat out front of the plate quick,
Keep it above the ball, and bunt it downward??t

[Todd4State]

You sir habent the slightest clue what you are talking about. Of you are bunting for a base hit, it's an entirely different approach. And you don't bunt to get on base if you are truly trying to sacrifice someone over. When trying to sacrifice you use the proper technique to her the bunt down. Foul balls and missed attempts don't cut it in this situation. The only time you wait until the pitcher is about to release the ball is when you are bunting for a base hit, and you either drop it down 3rd or push it toward gap between 2b and 1B. You won't see any of our hitters doing this because they struggle tremendously with the easy sac bunt.

That's why I said I don't consider it a "true sac bunt." You asked why we wait so late to square around and I told you. I've heard Cohen talk about this before, so you'll have to take it up with him.

The idea is to increase our chances of getting on by showing bunt late even if it is a traditional sacrifice bunt situation. He's trying to increase the odds of something good happening- like getting the guy bunting on first base- rather than just simply giving away an out. The downside is it makes bunting more difficult because they have to square around later to get into position.

[Todd4State]

I'm not sure what you thought Todd was saying, but you aren't disagreeing with him. You may not like that we don't try to put down pure sac bunts or pure bunts-for-hit, but it does appear we try to go halfway between them a good bit.

He just wanted to tell me that I don't have a clue about what I am talking about to make himself feel better about the fact that since we started going to a line drive approach that I suggested our team batting average has gone about about 12 points and our home runs have doubled in four weeks.

[Bucky Dog]

Does anyone find it ironic that the website this is published on is BILL JAMES ONLINE?! Is that Will's brother?

[Todd4State]

Does anyone find it ironic that the website this is published on is BILL JAMES ONLINE?! Is that Will's brother?

Like I said a few days ago- Sabermetrics attitude towards bunting is changing some. The don't bunt ever mantra is kind of becoming outdated. What has happened is the people like Bill James have learned more and more about baseball and they've come to realize that there is a difference between having a runner on first and no one out and Barry Bonds at the plate and having a guy like Juan Pierre at the plate. That's an extreme example but you get my point.

Sac bunting is in general a bad play though- and you can definitely overdo it. But it does have a place in the game. Sometimes all you need is one run- and sometimes sac bunting can set that up for you if it's done at the right time and in the right situation.

Bunting for a hit can be a good weapon if you have a player that is good at it and has speed. Which is kind of what that study is about.

[dawgs]

That should be understood though. Or at least to me it should be.

Right but the avg is only on bunts gotten down. How many guys tried bunting for a hit and picked up 1-2 strikes doing so, then got out? they'd have a better chance at getting a hit swinging away at 3 strikes than at 1 or 2. But how to weigh that, I'm not sure.

[dawgs]

Like I said a few days ago- Sabermetrics attitude towards bunting is changing some. The don't bunt ever mantra is kind of becoming outdated. What has happened is the people like Bill James have learned more and more about baseball and they've come to realize that there is a difference between having a runner on first and no one out and Barry Bonds at the plate and having a guy like Juan Pierre at the plate. That's an extreme example but you get my point.

Sac bunting is in general a bad play though- and you can definitely overdo it. But it does have a place in the game. Sometimes all you need is one run- and sometimes sac bunting can set that up for you if it's done at the right time and in the right situation.

Bunting for a hit can be a good weapon if you have a player that is good at it and has speed. Which is kind of what that study is about.

I've never read an anti-bunting article that didn't allow for some instances where a bunt made sense. Of course on the Internet, people tend to become enraged at an idea counter to their personal idea and miss the caveats.

[Jack Lambert]

It's a pretty quick and easy read.


http://www.billjamesonline.com/bunting_for_a_hit/

Since defenses in college baseball is so good and you can't hit the ball very far this could be your only option.