Baseball rest of way....

[MsStateBaseball]

Start Detz at 1B rest of year.
Start Collins every game at C or DH, bring in lob boy on occasion.
Keep Britton at 3B rest of year.
Play Henderson very little.
Start Humphreys at DH as much as possible.
Fitts, Mitchell and Brown is the rotation.

Cohen follow this please.

[CadaverDawg]

Agree on a few, Disagree on a few.

1. Detz vs RHP, Rea vs LHP (wish Hump could play here vs LHP)
2. Collins should ALWAYS hit. DH him on days off..Walker can catch in emergency.
3. Agree on Britton, but he's doing that anyway.
4. Hendu should start vs LHP...Brown as a PH when RHP comes in, or start vs RHP.
5. Hump is DH vs LHP...I would prefer him over Vick vs RHP too though. A good hitter is a good hitter.
6. Agree on rotation..looks like Cohen is set on this already

[Goat Holder]

Man I am torn on Rea and Henderson. I just cannot believe that Cohen wouldn't play those guys, after their accomplishments last year. But you can't. Brown has forced his way into the lineup. Maybe it's LF that will rotate between Armstrong and Henderson. And Britton has forced Cohen's hand at 1B. It's either Detz plays there or DH. Other guys are stepping up at DH.

[MsStateBaseball]

Rea right now is easy to strike out. Two times this weekend w RISP. If he gets two strikes, history. Brown, Armstrong, Vick, all should rotate.

[Will James]

Sit Rea down. We're not going to to it but sitting CT vs LHP isn't the worst idea. Let him come in for Hendu when the RHP comes in.

[RAYn_Man]

Sit Rea down. We're not going to to it but sitting CT vs LHP isn't the worst idea. Let him come in for Hendu when the RHP comes in.

CT is too good defensively to sit.

[CJDAWG85]

Boy I'm very impressed with Britton. He has come on strong lately.

[Will James]

CT is too good defensively to sit.

I disagree, and he can play the 2nd half of the game.

Willie Mays wouldn't play with a sub .100 avg

[msstate7]

I disagree, and he can play the 2nd half of the game.

Willie Mays wouldn't play with a sub .100 avg

Andruw was better

[Homedawg]

Start Detz at 1B rest of year.
Start Collins every game at C or DH, bring in lob boy on occasion.
Keep Britton at 3B rest of year.
Play Henderson very little.
Start Humphreys at DH as much as possible.
Fitts, Mitchell and Brown is the rotation.

Cohen follow this please.
Rea has to play first for us to be a factor- but I like the versatility of detz there at times.
Collins can hit. He isn't a good catcher at this point. What's more important based on who we are throwing? If he can't catch that game dh him. Whatever the pb wp numbers are w him are bs. And he has a negative affect on pitchers when he catches, no I can't prove it,but he does. His blocking is bad his catching is worse. I have no problem w him starting, just know it's going to be a potential problem back there at a key situation.
Britton is our starter no matter.
Hendu whatever is fine w me. He's a role guy period.
As far as hump goes, at this point he doesn't need to be I the lineup against any rhp period. He has looked awful against a slider. Give me detz over him against a rhp any day if the week.

[Will James]

Rea has to play first for us to be a factor-

Why is this making it's rounds from a few of you guys?

[Homedawg]

Why is this making it's rounds from a few of you guys?

Because we are pitching and defense team, and it this weekend didn't prove it for you I don't know what will. He is our best defensive 1b. And a good one at that. And I said I have don't mind detz playing it as a role. But if we are going to make a run, rea will be at first or we end up at the house. That's who we are and rea needs to get hot for him for us to go far.

[RAYn_Man]

k

[Homedawg]

I disagree. Wes has been shaky at best this year defensively. Detz made some keys plays this weekend that I don't think Wes would have made.

I laugh at this. Sorry .

[It_Could_Happen]

Collins everyday at catcher or DH
Randolph when he is not catching. He has surprised me a couple of times with the bat. Detz every day at first base. Britton every day at 3B. Outfield Brown, CT, Armstrong. Platoon vickerson and Humphreys at DH. I know I am going to be questioned on the DH but JVick has swung the bat well at times and has some speed.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Because we are pitching and defense team, and it this weekend didn't prove it for you I don't know what will. He is our best defensive 1b. And a good one at that. And I said I have don't mind detz playing it as a role. But if we are going to make a run, rea will be at first or we end up at the house. That's who we are and rea needs to get hot for him for us to go far.

This sounds exactly like what people were saying last year, except insert Evan Mitchell, Woodruff, and Lindgren.

[RAYn_Man]

I laugh at this. Sorry .

And I laugh at you. Sorry.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Collins's bat has to be in the lineup. No doubt about it.
I love Humphreys against lefties, but he hasn't looked good vs. righties. Platoon him at DH against. lefties or put him at first.
Henderson and Brown are good platoon players in RF.
Britton starts at 3rd every game.
CT would start every game for me, but I would move him down some in the order against lefties.

Vs. RHP
CF- CT
1B- Detz
2B- Pirtle
C- Collins
RF- Brown
SS- Heck
LF- Armstrong
DH- Vickerson (I know many will disagree with this)
3B- Britton

Vs. LHP
SS- Heck
LF- Armstrong
2B- Pirtle
C- Collins
DH- Humphreys
RF- Henderson
CF- CT
1B- Rea/Detz
3B- Britton

[Todd4State]

Collins has trouble catching Lindgren more than anyone else. He does OK with Ross and Preston. In a perfect world we would have his bat in there at all times if at all possible. I just don't think it's going to possible to do that all the time.

I think platooning Rea and Detz is a good idea. Both have the same amount of home runs, so we're not losing power there by sitting Rea at this point. It has worked so far at least. Detz is fine defensively at first base. Rea is better overall defensively even though he has let some balls eat him up this year. I think it's more of a pressure thing with Rea than anything.

Pirtle, Britton, Heck- any questions?

I'm OK with keeping CT in for defensive purposes even against LH pitching- but I sure wouldn't have him hit second against a LH pitcher. Armstrong, Henderson, Brown, and Vickerson can all platoon.

I understand why he sits Humphreys against RH pithers, but I still would like to see his bat in the lineup. It just gives us a little bit more power.

[Todd4State]

Andruw was better

Andruw was lazy. And hell no he wasn't better than Willie Mays.

[msstate7]

Andruw was lazy. And hell no he wasn't better than Willie Mays.

Defensively, I think Andruw was the best ever.

[bulldogcountry1]

Last week, I saw where Detz was around .375 against lefties. He's one of those rare LH guys who feasts of LH pitching.

I also saw where CT was hitting 1.6x10^-6 against lefties. At most, he should be in the bottom third of the lineup against LH pitching.

Collins should catch everyone but Holder and Lindgren. I think this would be best all-around. This would help keep him out of difficult defensive situations and give him a little rest. We need his bat, but if Holder and Lindy are in, then we are likely leading.

Rea needs to continue to sit. We are just better overall without him at this point. He desperately needs to do something different, but we can't afford to let him work it out in conference play.

[Jack Lambert]

Man I am torn on Rea and Henderson. I just cannot believe that Cohen wouldn't play those guys, after their accomplishments last year. But you can't. Brown has forced his way into the lineup. Maybe it's LF that will rotate between Armstrong and Henderson. And Britton has forced Cohen's hand at 1B. It's either Detz plays there or DH. Other guys are stepping up at DH.

I think the concept is easy, if they are hitting you get them in the line up and if not you get them out. I think there are several guys who can play first base.

[DudyDawg]

Defensively, I think Andruw was the best ever.

I put torii hunter over andruw

[C222]

Start Detz at 1B rest of year.
Start Collins every game at C or DH, bring in lob boy on occasion.
Keep Britton at 3B rest of year.
Play Henderson very little.
Start Humphreys at DH as much as possible.
Fitts, Mitchell and Brown is the rotation.

Cohen follow this please.

Are we still the laughing stock of college baseball? What are your twitters followers saying?

[messageboardsuperhero]

Are we still the laughing stock of college baseball? What are your twitters followers saying?

It was funny seeing people saying this. UCLA won the national championship last year, and this year they're RPI is 125 and aren't making a regional. Cal State Fullerton was preseason #1 in the country and are likely to miss a regional. North Carolina and NC State have elite talent and are in danger of missing a regional.

This regular season has still been a disappointment- but at least we'll play in the postseason. There are plenty of teams who are having seasons that are much more embarrassing than us right now.

[Political Hack]

nothing matters until the postseason... so long as you make the postseason.

[Coach34]

We are Miss State. That means we are a top 20 baseball program. Every year, we should:

Make it to a regional
Make it to a Super Regional and see what happens

Anything less than that is a sub-par season. Now we can argue what happens during the regular season and how it postures us in position to accomplish those 2 goals- but make no mistake- those are the two main goals for Miss State baseball every season.

[maroonmania]

Rea has to play first for us to be a factor-

No he doesn't, have you even watched our games this year? Rea has not even been a plus defender this year. If Rea can't provide some power without being a K machine he should sit. He has made a number of errors on ground balls to first lately plus has let a number of throws get by him this year that would have never gotten by him last year.

[I seen it dawg]

Rea is a non-factor for us. It's surprising if he does anything positive offensively.

[maroonmania]

Hard to believe a guy with Rea's size, other than one day against Holy Cross, can't produce any HRs. I could live with all the strikeouts if he produced some big flys along the way with it. He's become Dave Kingman without the HRs.

[smootness]

Andruw was lazy. And hell no he wasn't better than Willie Mays.

No. Just, no.

Andruw wasn't even close to lazy defensively, and Mays being better than him is arguable at best. You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone extremely knowledgeable about the game that would put Mays ahead of him.

To the poster who put Torii Hunter ahead, I don't even know where to start with that. He was a lot like Edmonds...made a lot of highlight-reel plays but overall, was merely above-average.

He isn't anywhere close to Andruw's league.

[BrunswickDawg]

Andruw got a terrible rap as "lazy", because people confuse his combination of emotional indifference and effortless one-of-a-kind ability with a lack of hustle. Andruw made the incredible look routine, and did it with a blank look on his face. He didn't react because in his mind no play was impossible, so why get jacked up about it. Ask any MLB player during his era, and they will all tell you he made plays that they could not even think about making.

Now, if you want to knock him for his issues on the offensive side of the ball, go ahead. But his defense can not be knocked.

[msstate7]

No. Just, no.

Andruw wasn't even close to lazy defensively, and Mays being better than him is arguable at best. You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone extremely knowledgeable about the game that would put Mays ahead of him.

To the poster who put Torii Hunter ahead, I don't even know where to start with that. He was a lot like Edmonds...made a lot of highlight-reel plays but overall, was merely above-average.

He isn't anywhere close to Andruw's league.

I agree. Andruw had one play against cubs that he jogged after ball, but that's all I remember.

Andruw made the plays everyone else had to dive for on his feet. He plays extremely shallow and hardly anything got over his head. Andruw was so good that extraordinary plays looked like nothing to him.

[smootness]

I don't think it's possible to overstate how good Andruw was in CF. There's no doubt in my mind that one of the primary reasons our pitching stayed as good as it did and we kept winning division titles when we no longer seemed to have the talent it had previously is because we had Andruw back there in CF.

He changed the way our pitchers were able to pitch and erased so many mistakes.

[msstate7]

I don't think it's possible to overstate how good Andruw was in CF. There's no doubt in my mind that one of the primary reasons our pitching stayed as good as it did and we kept winning division titles when we no longer seemed to have the talent it had previously is because we had Andruw back there in CF.

He changed the way our pitchers were able to pitch and erased so many mistakes.

Imagine if you added Simmons defense at ss with jones in cf.

[smootness]

Imagine if you added Simmons defense at ss with jones in cf.

Well, thanks, I need new shorts now.

The crazy thing about the Braves' defense right now is that we are below-average (in some cases well below-average) at every IF spot except SS, yet we're still one of the best IF defenses in the league. If we can put Peraza at 2B within the next couple of years, suddenly our IF defense becomes incredible, despite Chris Johnson still manning 3B (not a big fan of that extension we just gave him).

Of course, our OF defense is about as good as it gets overall. I just wish we were an AL team so we could eventually put Bethancourt at C and still have Gattis in the lineup.

[Todd4State]

Andruw got a terrible rap as "lazy", because people confuse his combination of emotional indifference and effortless one-of-a-kind ability with a lack of hustle. Andruw made the incredible look routine, and did it with a blank look on his face. He didn't react because in his mind no play was impossible, so why get jacked up about it. Ask any MLB player during his era, and they will all tell you he made plays that they could not even think about making.

Now, if you want to knock him for his issues on the offensive side of the ball, go ahead. But his defense can not be knocked.

No- he gets a rap for being lazy because Bobby Cox pulled out of a game in the middle of an inning for loafing around and because he didn't put the work in to become close to the player he could have and should have been.

[Todd4State]

No. Just, no.

Andruw wasn't even close to lazy defensively, and Mays being better than him is arguable at best. You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone extremely knowledgeable about the game that would put Mays ahead of him.

To the poster who put Torii Hunter ahead, I don't even know where to start with that. He was a lot like Edmonds...made a lot of highlight-reel plays but overall, was merely above-average.

He isn't anywhere close to Andruw's league.

Willie Mays had the greatest catch in MLB history. He has 12 Gold Gloves compared to Jones 10. Andruw Jones doesn't have an iconic catch that people are going to remember 60 years from now.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

No- he gets a rap for being lazy because Bobby Cox pulled out of a game in the middle of an inning for loafing around and because he didn't put the work in to become close to the player he could have and should have been.

Thought the lazy rap came from his short lived stint with the dodgers when he reported to spring training 40 pounds overweight or whatever it was.

[msstate7]

Willie Mays had the greatest catch in MLB history. He has 12 Gold Gloves compared to Jones 10. Andruw Jones doesn't have an iconic catch that people are going to remember 60 years from now.

http://youtu.be/qXMnbSaMjC4

Here's one

[BrunswickDawg]

No- he gets a rap for being lazy because Bobby Cox pulled out of a game in the middle of an inning for loafing around and because he didn't put the work in to become close to the player he could have and should have been.

You're right Todd, I had put that incident out of my head. He was also batting somewhere in the "Uggla Zone" at that point too which contributed to the whole yanking mid-game. Andruw was not one of my favorites, but his defense was spectacular.

[Todd4State]

http://youtu.be/qXMnbSaMjC4

Here's one

You just compared Willie Mays catch in the 1954 World Series to THAT?

[smootness]

Willie Mays had the greatest catch in MLB history. He has 12 Gold Gloves compared to Jones 10. Andruw Jones doesn't have an iconic catch that people are going to remember 60 years from now.

Andruw's 10 GGs came before he completely let himself go. I'm not arguing for Andruw's longevity over Mays' or that Mays wasn't far better as a complete player; I'm just saying that Andruw's defense was better. In a much shorter time frame, he had far more defensive WAR, DRS, any metric you want to use.

Yes, Mays had a phenomenal catch that is one of the most iconic plays in baseball history. There are a few reasons why it is remembered...one, it was a great play; two, it was made by Mays, unquestionably one of the greatest players of all time; and three, it was in the World Series.

But it's one play. What you said is akin to saying, 'Albert Pujols doesn't have an iconic hit that people are going to remember 60 years from now, therefore Bill Mazeroski was a better hitter,' not in the comparison of Bill Mazeroski to Willie Mays but in the sense that one play out of an entire career is essentially meaningless when comparing two players' overall bodies of work.

[smootness]

No- he gets a rap for being lazy because Bobby Cox pulled out of a game in the middle of an inning for loafing around and because he didn't put the work in to become close to the player he could have and should have been.

Andruw never became the hitter he was capable of being, no question about it. And he did, on occasion, 'loaf', though there were also times where he was simply misunderstood, even by his manager, because he did things like smile after striking out.

But regardless of any of that, he was the greatest defensive OF of all-time. He was not lazy in the field, not even close. He simply, as others have stated, made the difficult look routine and had fun playing the game.

[Todd4State]

Andruw's 10 GGs came before he completely let himself go. I'm not arguing for Andruw's longevity over Mays' or that Mays wasn't far better as a complete player; I'm just saying that Andruw's defense was better. In a much shorter time frame, he had far more defensive WAR, DRS, any metric you want to use.

Yes, Mays had a phenomenal catch that is one of the most iconic plays in baseball history. There are a few reasons why it is remembered...one, it was a great play; two, it was made by Mays, unquestionably one of the greatest players of all time; and three, it was in the World Series.

But it's one play. What you said is akin to saying, 'Albert Pujols doesn't have an iconic hit that people are going to remember 60 years from now, therefore Bill Mazeroski was a better hitter,' not in the comparison of Bill Mazeroski to Willie Mays but in the sense that one play out of an entire career is essentially meaningless when comparing two players' overall bodies of work.

Brad Lidge disagrees about Albert Pujols.

Andruw Jones had two seasons where his WAR was 3.8 and 3.9 in 1998-1999. That is what is bumping his WAR up. Mays was consistently good for much longer. Jones actually had a - defensive WAR from age 30 and forward. Mays didn't start having a - defensive WAR until after age 37.

[Todd4State]

Andruw never became the hitter he was capable of being, no question about it. And he did, on occasion, 'loaf', though there were also times where he was simply misunderstood, even by his manager, because he did things like smile after striking out.

But regardless of any of that, he was the greatest defensive OF of all-time. He was not lazy in the field, not even close. He simply, as others have stated, made the difficult look routine and had fun playing the game.

If he had fun playing the game, you would think that he would have worked harder at being better at it.

[msstate7]

You just compared Willie Mays catch in the 1954 World Series to THAT?

It was the expos man ** you're right but hell of a catch regardless

[Todd4State]

It was the expos man ** you're right but hell of a catch regardless

I can't say much about that. Mark McGwire hit number 70 against the Expos.

[msstate7]

Here's an over the shoulder catch for you.

http://youtu.be/bmRr-PjiZmU

[smootness]

Brad Lidge disagrees about Albert Pujols.

Andruw Jones had two seasons where his WAR was 3.8 and 3.9 in 1998-1999. That is what is bumping his WAR up. Mays was consistently good for much longer. Jones actually had a - defensive WAR from age 30 and forward. Mays didn't start having a - defensive WAR until after age 37.

Nobody is going to remember the Pujols HR 60 years from now; most people probably wouldn't even know what you were talking about today. Either way, the point stands - 'most memorable play' doesn't equate to 'better player'.

You can't give me Andruw's two best seasons, at the peak of his defensive prime, and tell me those are 'bumping his WAR up'. I've acknowledged that Mays had more longevity, but it's clear that at each's prime, Andruw was better...and he sustained it long enough to not be considered a flash-in-the-pan.

If you were given the choice of prime Andruw Jones vs. prime Willie Mays, solely for defense, you should pick Andruw every day of the week. And that's no knock on Mays, he was legitimately all-time elite defensively; he just wasn't Andruw Jones.

[smootness]

If he had fun playing the game, you would think that he would have worked harder at being better at it.

Not true at all. You have to stay extremely motivated to continue to put in the kind of work it takes to stay at the top of the game. Just because he had fun playing doesn't mean he cared enough to be willing to put in that kind of work.

On the flip side, there are plenty of guys who don't necessarily enjoy playing the sport they play professionally, but they remain motivated by the quality of life it gives them.

[Todd4State]

Nobody is going to remember the Pujols HR 60 years from now; most people probably wouldn't even know what you were talking about today. Either way, the point stands - 'most memorable play' doesn't equate to 'better player'.

You can't give me Andruw's two best seasons, at the peak of his defensive prime, and tell me those are 'bumping his WAR up'. I've acknowledged that Mays had more longevity, but it's clear that at each's prime, Andruw was better...and he sustained it long enough to not be considered a flash-in-the-pan.

If you were given the choice of prime Andruw Jones vs. prime Willie Mays, solely for defense, you should pick Andruw every day of the week. And that's no knock on Mays, he was legitimately all-time elite defensively; he just wasn't Andruw Jones.

I think Jones was 21-22 when he had his best defensive WAR. That's not and shouldn't have been his prime. I think he had the talent to potentially be better than Mays- he just didn't do it because he was lazy.

[maroonmania]

Boy, did this thread ever get hijacked off the rails.

[msstate7]

Boy, did this thread ever get hijacked off the rails.

Damn brave fans...