Mississippi State Spring Wrap

[bluelightstar]

espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/82319/mississippi-state-spring-wrap-4


3. Kicking game: During the final practice before the spring game, Mississippi State?s kickers missed everything from extra points to chip shots. Groans could be heard from the sidelines every time the ball sailed shy of the goalpost. While Mullen has a lot to like about his offense and defense, without a strong kicking game it could all be for naught.

I am terrified that our kicking game is going to undo a great year.

[gtowndawg]

espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/82319/mississippi-state-spring-wrap-4




I am terrified that our kicking game is going to undo a great year.

could not see this coming a country mile away. We all knew this was going to kill us next season but nothing was really done about it in the off season. Other than making a coaching change but I don't see how that helps when we still don't have anyone that can actually kick a football.

[BulldogBear]

Still needs to be a campus wide walk-on tryout if this is the best we can do

[Pollodawg]

There isn't some dirt poor kid in South America that grew up playing slumdog soccer that we would be willing to bring up here and give a first rate education too in exchange for kicking us some FGs?

[Dawghouse]

I thought we had some kicker walking on or showing up this summer? Was that just a dream?

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

I would bet our problem is more that we don't have anyone on the staff that can coach field goal kicking.

[spiritual_machine2005]

We have 2 kickers coming in...a walk on and Logan Cooke, a scholly guy. Although I think Cooke is mainly coming to be a punter.

[The Croom Diaries]

Devon Bell's got the leg, I think if we just get him lightly buzzed that could take away the mental block he has and he'd start putting them through the uprights.

I'm only half joking.

[TrapGame]

There isn't some dirt poor kid in South America that grew up playing slumdog soccer that we would be willing to bring up here and give a first rate education too in exchange for kicking us some FGs?

I thought for sure we'd have some foreign wonder-kid on the soccer team that could kick it through from 50 yards easy.

[messageboardsuperhero]

We have 2 kickers coming in...a walk on and Logan Cooke, a scholly guy. Although I think Cooke is mainly coming to be a punter.

So between Cooke and Bell, we'll have two punters on scholarship- but still no one on the team who can make >50% of their field goal attempts? Wow. There's something very odd about our strategy with specialists.

Field goal kicking has got to get fixed. Period.

[starkvegasdawg]

It could not be avoided. It's part of the agreement we have with the dead Indians. They let us play on their old burial ground but we have to have at least one major position we always suck in. For most of our history that position was QB. Now we finally got Dak and Co. in so we had to pick another position. Turns out it is place kicker.

[Political Hack]

Someone in the boneyard can handle it.

[smootness]

I thought we had some kicker walking on or showing up this summer? Was that just a dream?

I'm pretty sure we have an additional walk-on on campus right now (obviously not helping much) and another one coming this fall.

It's definitely a concern, but I doubt it has much to do with coaching; I would bet that most ST coaches in D1 aren't really kicking gurus. We just have to do a much better job of finding a reliable kicker. That's probably easier said than done, but we're worse than most at it.

[BulldogBear]

I would bet our problem is more that we don't have anyone on the staff that can coach field goal kicking.

Am I going mad or didn't we hire a special teams coach finally?

[War Machine Dawg]

Campus wide open tryouts need to happen ASAP. Mike Leach did it mid-season one year when he was at TX Tech and his kickers sucked. Found a new kid who was actually pretty decent. I'd bet every bit of money I have we have SOMEONE on campus who can kick FGs better than Bell, Sobiesk, Cooke, and our other walk-ons.

[War Machine Dawg]

Am I going mad or didn't we hire a special teams coach finally?

No, we just shifted the responsibility from Mullen to Knox. Still have no f'n clue why we didn't move Sallach to an administrative role and fill his spot with a legit ST guy.

[BulldogBear]

It could not be avoided. It's part of the agreement we have with the dead Indians. They let us play on their old burial ground but we have to have at least one major position we always suck in. For most of our history that position was QB. Now we finally got Dak and Co. in so we had to pick another position. Turns out it is place kicker.

Why can't we just suck at waterboy?

[Pollodawg]

Campus wide open tryouts need to happen ASAP. Mike Leach did it mid-season one year when he was at TX Tech and his kickers sucked. Found a new kid who was actually pretty decent. I'd bet every bit of money I have we have SOMEONE on campus who can kick FGs better than Bell, Sobiesk, Cooke, and our other walk-ons.

Which is weired because we always had clutch kickers when JWS was here.

[thunderclap]

It's gonna hurt to watch us in a close game.

[LC Dawg]

Someone needs to see if Kathy Ireland has used up her eligibility. She kicked pretty good for Texas State that one year and she's not bad to look at.

[BulldogBear]

No, we just shifted the responsibility from Mullen to Knox. Still have no f'n clue why we didn't move Sallach to an administrative role and fill his spot with a legit ST guy.

Oh well. Bark. Bark. Bark.

[War Machine Dawg]

Which is weired because we always had clutch kickers when JWS was here.

That's because The Kang was a ST guru. His philosophy for winning games was "field position, SPECIAL TEAMS, and defense." He knew what the hell he was doing on STs and what he was looking for in kickers. Don't know why the hell Mullen wouldn't take advantage of The Kang's ST knowledge and maybe let him evaluate our kicking recruits privately.

[Coach34]

We are/were bringing in 2 more kickers (not punters) to compete with Sobs. Hopefully one if them has some gonads

[smootness]

There may be at least a bit of a silver lining here. It could mean that when we're outside of 35-yard range or so, we go for it more often, which I think coaches should do more frequently anyway, especially when you have someone like Prescott who can get short yardage so easily.

Of course, in order to make this a silver lining, we have to actually go for it more often and not kick just as often but make fewer.

If we can find someone who is fairly reliable on short-yardage stuff (I know we may not even have that right now), then I'm ok if we can't make a lot of 40-50 yarders. Obviously there may be a couple of games where that hurts us late, but it also could force our hand and end up helping us at times.

[War Machine Dawg]

There may be at least a bit of a silver lining here. It could mean that when we're outside of 35-yard range or so, we go for it more often, which I think coaches should do more frequently anyway, especially when you have someone like Prescott who can get short yardage so easily.

Of course, in order to make this a silver lining, we have to actually go for it more often and not kick just as often but make fewer.

If we can find someone who is fairly reliable on short-yardage stuff (I know we may not even have that right now), then I'm ok if we can't make a lot of 40-50 yarders. Obviously there may be a couple of games where that hurts us late, but it also could force our hand and end up helping us at times.

There's no excuse not to have someone who's automatic from inside of 40 yards. Totally ridiculous that an SEC school is as bad at FGs as we are.

[Pollodawg]

It seems FGs have been a thorn in a lot of sides over the years. Bama likely wins the Iron Bowl with a more reliable kicker. OM missed a few keys kicks this last season. What was it, Auburn in 2005, where John Vaugn missed five field goals and cost them a game verses LSU?

[Coach34]

Kicker almost cost Bama a Natty and should have by missing 3 or 4 vs LSU in 2011

[smootness]

Kicker almost cost Bama a Natty and should have by missing 3 or 4 vs LSU in 2011

And maybe did last year.

[Johnson85]

There's no excuse not to have someone who's automatic from inside of 40 yards. Totally ridiculous that an SEC school is as bad at FGs as we are.

It happens a lot. The problem is there are a lot of guys that are good kickers in high school that suck in college. Either they can't handle doing it a second or two faster, or can't handle kicking off the ground, or can't handle it mentally.

Devon Bell was supposed to be a more or less can't miss prospect. So was John Michael Marlin. If you really want to be automatic, you have to bring somebody like that in pretty consistently, which burns a lot of scholarships. It does seem like this year, with the situation we have with Bell and Sobiesk, we should have been doing everything to get somebody we thought would be capable as a true freshman.

[maroonmania]

Seriously, is it that difficult to scour the JUCOs and find a guy that has PROVEN he can make FGs kicking without a tee? Part of the problem with recruiting HS guys is that they've not really kicked FGs without the tee and HS teams don't try a lot of FGs anyway. Seems we are just out looking for a guy with a strong leg but there is a lot more to FG kicking than distance. We have guys that metaphoricly speaking can hit 300+ yard drives with ease but ALWAYS end up in the rough. Well Bell fits that category, Sobiesk doesn't have a great leg and is only slightly more accurate.

[Reason2succeed]

Speaking of kicking, who is the holder this year? I was watching the Auburn game from last year and Dak was holding. I'm pretty sure that will not be the case again.

Surely there is a kicker coming in. We can't suck that bad and Mullen not bring someone else in. Mullen's attitude toward the kicking game during the spring suggests that he has something up his sleeve. With all the misses he seemed unconcerned as if he knew that none of these guys would be anywhere close to kicking a ball this season. Let's pray.

[BulldogBear]

Speaking of kicking, who is the holder this year? I was watching the Auburn game from last year and Dak was holding. I'm pretty sure that will not be the case again.

Surely there is a kicker coming in. We can't suck that bad and Mullen not bring someone else in. Mullen's attitude toward the kicking game during the spring suggests that he has something up his sleeve. With all the misses he seemed unconcerned as if he knew that none of these guys would be anywhere close to kicking a ball this season. Let's pray.

Have we ever seen DW hold?

[War Machine Dawg]

Seriously, is it that difficult to scour the JUCOs and find a guy that has PROVEN he can make FGs kicking without a tee? Part of the problem with recruiting HS guys is that they've not really kicked FGs without the tee and HS teams don't try a lot of FGs anyway. Seems we are just out looking for a guy with a strong leg but there is a lot more to FG kicking than distance. We have guys that metaphoricly speaking can hit 300+ yard drives with ease but ALWAYS end up in the rough. Well Bell fits that category, Sobiesk doesn't have a great leg and is only slightly more accurate.

Bingo. I've been saying this for a while now. I'm totally DONE with us recruiting HS kickers. We should only go after a total "can't miss" type kicker if we go the HS route. These developmental guys like Bell just f'n blow. We need to go after JUCO guys. They're a whole lot easier to evaluate and project because they've kicked off the ground. Plus, they've kicked in pressure situations, so you know what you're likely getting from a mental standpoint, too. It just eliminates a whole lot of the guesswork from the process when it comes to recruiting a K.

[sandwolf]

Bingo. I've been saying this for a while now. I'm totally DONE with us recruiting HS kickers. We should only go after a total "can't miss" type kicker if we go the HS route. These developmental guys like Bell just f'n blow. We need to go after JUCO guys. They're a whole lot easier to evaluate and project because they've kicked off the ground. Plus, they've kicked in pressure situations, so you know what you're likely getting from a mental standpoint, too. It just eliminates a whole lot of the guesswork from the process when it comes to recruiting a K.

This isn't realistic at all. You are acting like there are just loads and loads of quality JUCO kickers out there for us to go recruit every year when that just isn't the case. As of today, Scout shows 4 JUCO kickers in their database.......3 are in California and 1 of them is in MS. And a proven place kicker is a hot commodity, so even if all 4 of those kickers are good, there is going to be stiff competition for them. Its not like Mullen is turning his nose up at JUCO kickers (he signed one in 2009)......there just aren't many of them out there, and there is a high demand for those that are out there.

[War Machine Dawg]

This isn't realistic at all. You are acting like there are just loads and loads of quality JUCO kickers out there for us to go recruit every year when that just isn't the case. As of today, Scout shows 4 JUCO kickers in their database.......3 are in California and 1 of them is in MS. And a proven place kicker is a hot commodity, so even if all 4 of those kickers are good, there is going to be stiff competition for them. Its not like Mullen is turning his nose up at JUCO kickers (he signed one in 2009)......there just aren't many of them out there, and there is a high demand for those that are out there.

You're saying there aren't plenty of JUCO kickers who aren't accurate from 35 and in? You really want to make that argument? I don't give a damn what some database maintained by failed business owners or guys with jock envy says. There are accurate kickers out there to find, and they don't have to be a 3 or 4 star to be good. Your logic is the same as saying Johnthan Banks, Bernardrick McKinney, Vick Ballard, etc. would suck just because they're low or unrated. I guran-damn-tee there are plenty of JUCO kickers to find in the Southeast alone.

[sandwolf]

You're saying there aren't plenty of JUCO kickers who aren't accurate from 35 and in? You really want to make that argument? I don't give a damn what some database maintained by failed business owners or guys with jock envy says. There are accurate kickers out there to find, and they don't have to be a 3 or 4 star to be good. Your logic is the same as saying Johnthan Banks, Bernardrick McKinney, Vick Ballard, etc. would suck just because they're low or unrated. I guran-damn-tee there are plenty of JUCO kickers to find in the Southeast alone.

In the last 2 years, there have been a total of 4 JUCO kickers signed. So you can 'guran-damn-tee' whatever you want....but there is not an abundance of quality JUCO kickers.

[War Machine Dawg]

In the last 2 years, there have been a total of 4 JUCO kickers signed. So you can 'guran-damn-tee' whatever you want....but there is not an abundance of quality JUCO kickers.

Seems to me that it's an entirely untapped recruiting pool, then. Just because no one is signing them doesn't mean they aren't out there. No one was signing JUCO position guys very until The Kang tapped that pool in the 90s and started winning with them. We have an excellent opportunity to be once aGAIN be the leader and heavily recruit JUCO Ks. Just because they're being overlooked doesn't mean they aren't out there. I mean, holy ****, Mike Leach found a better kicker on campus than the ones he had one season. And you want to convince me that guys who are kicking in JUCO aren't out there to be found? Riiiiiight.

[Kechup]

Seems to me that it's an entirely untapped recruiting pool, then. Just because no one is signing them doesn't mean they aren't out there. No one was signing JUCO position guys very until The Kang tapped that pool in the 90s and started winning with them. We have an excellent opportunity to be once aGAIN be the leader and heavily recruit JUCO Ks. Just because they're being overlooked doesn't mean they aren't out there. I mean, holy ****, Mike Leach found a better kicker on campus than the ones he had one season. And you want to convince me that guys who are kicking in JUCO aren't out there to be found? Riiiiiight.

It's already been shown we can get decent kickers from JUCO, look at Sean Brauchle who signed Mullen's first year. He was pretty decent for us, especially within 35 yards

[jumbo]

we should try a sports psychologist for Bell. Kid's got a great leg, he just doesn't have it upstairs

[blacklistedbully]

How about an outreach to countries where rugby is the main sport? There is pretty much always a guy on the team who can kick the shit outta the ball. In rugby, the kicker often has to kick the ball from either an extreme angle, or a long distance, usually a compromise of the two, as they get to place the ball anywhere on an imaginary line that goes from the point in the end zone at which the ball was touched down for a score, extending to the mirrored point on the opposing end-zone.

Yes, a rugby ball is easier to kick longer distances, but I assure you, a ton of those guys are making extreme kicks on a regular basis. Even if you knocked down their distance, it would still likely be really high. None of these guys is "just" a kicker either, as rugby players are in for every play, no substitutions unless you're removed from the balance of the game. Might make them less likely to be mental pussies. And these guys from places like New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, etc are not likely being recruited by anyone here. Several might jump at the chance to convert to American Football in exchange for a free education, and perhaps a chance to play pro football after school.

[War Machine Dawg]

How about an outreach to countries where rugby is the main sport? There is pretty much always a guy on the team who can kick the shit outta the ball. In rugby, the kicker often has to kick the ball from either an extreme angle, or a long distance, usually a compromise of the two, as they get to place the ball anywhere on an imaginary line that goes from the point in the end zone at which the ball was touched down for a score, extending to the mirrored point on the opposing end-zone.

Yes, a rugby ball is easier to kick longer distances, but I assure you, a ton of those guys are making extreme kicks on a regular basis. Even if you knocked down their distance, it would still likely be really high. None of these guys is "just" a kicker either, as rugby players are in for every play, no substitutions unless you're removed from the balance of the game. Might make them less likely to be mental pussies. And these guys from places like New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, etc are not likely being recruited by anyone here. Several might jump at the chance to convert to American Football in exchange for a free education, and perhaps a chance to play pro football after school.

I'd be down for this. Soccer guys, too.

[War Machine Dawg]

It's already been shown we can get decent kickers from JUCO, look at Sean Brauchle who signed Mullen's first year. He was pretty decent for us, especially within 35 yards

Yep. JUCO kickers are out there if you're willing to look. Just gotta be willing.


we should try a sports psychologist for Bell. Kid's got a great leg, he just doesn't have it upstairs

Screw Bell as a kicker. He's going to be a great punter for us, but I never want to see him attempt another FG.

[smootness]

There definitely is some truth to what sandwolf is saying. It isn't incredibly easy to find someone automatic from 35-40 yards and in. It may not be as difficult as we've made it look, but some are acting as though there are thousands of guys like this out there.

The reality is, kicking can be a very fragile thing, and even kickers who have proven themselves to be very, very good on the college level can suddenly go bad (Cade Foster, for example). Blair Walsh is about the best kicker you'll find anywhere and was phenomenal at UGA; he was an All-American before his senior year. Yet his senior year, he made only 21 of 35 FGA. Obviously we'd take that % at this point, but it is nowhere near what he had done in the past nor what he was capable of.

We need to do a better job of finding kickers, there's no doubt about that. But it isn't as easy as just going to a few JUCOs and grabbing one of their kickers.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

There definitely is some truth to what sandwolf is saying. It isn't incredibly easy to find someone automatic from 35-40 yards and in. It may not be as difficult as we've made it look, but some are acting as though there are thousands of guys like this out there.

The reality is, kicking can be a very fragile thing, and even kickers who have proven themselves to be very, very good on the college level can suddenly go bad (Cade Foster, for example). Blair Walsh is about the best kicker you'll find anywhere and was phenomenal at UGA; he was an All-American before his senior year. Yet his senior year, he made only 21 of 35 FGA. Obviously we'd take that % at this point, but it is nowhere near what he had done in the past nor what he was capable of.

We need to do a better job of finding kickers, there's no doubt about that. But it isn't as easy as just going to a few JUCOs and grabbing one of their kickers.

With Dak and Robinson I hope we go for it every time if it's 4th and short.

[BulldogBear]

With Dak and Robinson I hope we go for it every time if it's 4th and short.

I once saw a study that said you'd average an extra win a year if you only punted inside your 40 or something like that. Sure, you'd blow it some but think of the times you'd keep drives alive and SCORE that you didn't. It's no harder to make a 4th and 5 than a 2nd and 5 if you want to get techinical. 4th and short? We should almost never punt in that situation.