How many 4* or 5* QB's does Alabama have on their roster?

[Jack Lambert]

Unreal they find them self in this situation.

[ShotgunDawg]

Unreal they find them self in this situation.

Agree, but then their trailer trash fans and Tusk will claim some genetic, "caring" superiority when they have a QB from another school TRANSFER in and lead them to an SEC title. Kinda stupid.

[Coach34]

I guess they didn't care as much when they were coached by Shula and the coach that left them for A&M

[TUSK]

Agree, but then their trailer trash fans and Tusk will claim some genetic, "caring" superiority when they have a QB from another school TRANSFER in and lead them to an SEC title. Kinda stupid.

You're not very intelligent, are you?

(Not that there's anything wrong with that)

[ShotgunDawg]

You're not very intelligent, are you?

(Not that there's anything wrong with that)

Hey, your the one who claimed that Bama wins because their FANS care more, not me.

That makes a cool bed time story to build pride about the program, but its simply dumb and not very intelligent when actually stop and think about how games are actually won.

You mean, Bama fans couldn't "care" enough to actually have a QB on their roster that was worth a crap?
Or do Bama fans care so much that they got two transfer QBs gift wrapped to them?

[TUSK]

I guess they didn't care as much when they were coached by Shula and the coach that left them for A&M

Shula, croom? Shula, croom?

Wow, we got lucky.

[engie]

Hey, your the one who claimed that Bama wins because their FANS care more, not me.

The makes a cool bed time story to build pride about the program, but its simply dumb and not very intelligent when actually stop and think about how games are actually won.

How are they "actually won"?

[ShotgunDawg]

How are they "actually won"?

By players that happen to choose to come to your school. Not by magic, not by caring more, but by players. And if any other team happened to have those players, they would win as well.

[engie]

By players that happen to choose to come to your school. Not by magic, not by caring more, but by players. And if any other team happened to have those players, they would win as well.

How do those players magically decide on Tuscaloosa, Al over Starkville, Ms? What predisposed that decision-making process?

[ShotgunDawg]

How do those players magically decide on Tuscaloosa, Al over Starkville, Ms? What predisposed that decision-making process?

Of course, because Bama won last year, and they'll continue to win because players choose to go there because they won last year.

The point is, what Bama has over everyone else is that they win. But they win because of a self fulfilling recruiting prophecy that makes recruits believe they need to go to Bama to win. If Bama's recruits chose to go to Tennessee Tech, then Tennessee Tech would be awesome at football, and their fans would likely care a whole whole lot in no time.

[engie]

Of course, because Bama won last year, and they'll continue to win because players choose to go there because they won last year.

The point is, what Bama has over everyone else is that they win. But they win because of a self fulfilling recruiting prophecy that makes recruits believe they need to go to Bama to win. If Bama's recruits chose to go to Tennessee Tech, then Tennessee Tech would be awesome at football, and their fans would likely care a whole whole lot in no time.

AH -- so this self-perpetuating cycle of their excellence just magically started on it's own?

[ShotgunDawg]

AH -- so this self-perpetuating cycle of their excellence just magically started on it's own?

No, I give Bear Bryant all the credit in the world for making that program into a juggernaut, but that was a long long time ago, when the SEC wasn't what it is today. Bama made a commitment to football earlier than most other schools, and are still reaping the benefits of that when most other SEC schools now offer the same exact opportunities.

The question is, why does how many games you won in the 60s, still matter in how many you win today?

With many SEC schools now having elite facilities, playing on TV every game, and packing their stadiums, why do out of state recruits still feel it necessary to go to Alabama?

Do they just go to Bama because its a status symbol and does this trend reflect our "status is important" society?

Kids have no better of a chance of going to the NFL by going to Bama than they do any other SEC school, so why do they feel the need to go there?

I'm not sure there are any easy and logic proof answers to these questions, but it makes you think...

Do packers fans care more about Packer football than Patriot fans care about Patriot football? After all, the Patriots are the number two team in their town and the Packers are the only team in theirs.

Do Cal State Fullerton and Fresno State fans care more about college baseball than MSU fans? They have more National Championships.

[engie]

No, I give Bear Bryant all the credit in the world for making that program into a juggernaut, but that was a long long time ago, when the SEC wasn't what it is today. Bama made a commitment to football earlier than most other schools, and are still reaping the benefits of that when most other SEC schools now offer the same exact opportunities.

The question is, why does how many games you won in the 60s, still matter in how many you win today?

With many SEC schools now having elite facilities, playing on TV every game, and packing their stadiums, why do out of state recruits still feel it necessary to go to Alabama?

Do they just go to Bama because its a status symbol and does this trend reflect our "status is important" society?

Kids have no better of a chance of going to the NFL by going to Bama than they do any other SEC school, so why do they feel the need to go there?

I'm not sure there are any easy and logic proof answers to these questions, but it makes you think...

Do packers fans care more about Packer football than Patriot fans care about Patriot football? After all, the Patriots are the number two team in their town and the Packers are the only team in theirs.

Do Cal State Fullerton and Fresno State fans care more about college baseball than MSU fans? They have more National Championships.


The bottom line is -- BECAUSE they made the commitment to dominate the sport long before most others cared? Bear Bryant? Bama was already a powerhouse with multiple national titles well before that.

Which ultimately, still comes back to the FANS CARING MORE. That's the basic foundation that makes EVERY part of the machine tick. At Alabama now, it is a way of life that kids grow up dreaming about.

It's the same reason that we're good at college baseball -- and ever became good in the first place against all odds in terms of locally available talent. You can make MLB out of any highschool in the country. So, why do kids choose to come share 11.7 scholarships at MSU -- when they could go pro or share 27 scholarships elsewhere? Why do they choose to play on elite travel teams -- instead of just sticking with their boys from down the street?

Because, ultimately, at the end of the day -- you STILL get better at Alabama -- and get more exposure at Alabama -- get scouted harder at Alabama -- get more $$ to go to Alabama -- more girls -- and are more setup for a future outside of football. Sorry -- it's a fact of life.

[TUSK]

Excellent post, Engie....

People don't realize Tha Bahr didn't start the ball rolling.

I'd credit Wade & Thomas, then Bryant.

QUOTE=engie;167245]The bottom line is -- BECAUSE they made the commitment to dominate the sport long before most others cared? Bear Bryant? Bama was already a powerhouse with multiple national titles well before that.

Which ultimately, still comes back to the FANS CARING MORE. That's the basic foundation that makes EVERY part of the machine tick. At Alabama now, it is a way of life that kids grow up dreaming about.

It's the same reason that we're good at college baseball -- and ever became good in the first place against all odds in terms of locally available talent. You can make MLB out of any highschool in the country. So, why do kids choose to come share 11.7 scholarships at MSU -- when they could go pro or share 27 scholarships elsewhere? Why do they choose to play on elite travel teams -- instead of just sticking with their boys from down the street?

Because, ultimately, at the end of the day -- you STILL get better at Alabama -- and get more exposure at Alabama -- get scouted harder at Alabama -- get more $$ to go to Alabama -- more girls -- and are more setup for a future outside of football. Sorry -- it's a fact of life.[/QUOTE]

[smootness]

I agree that Alabama cared more at one point, but it's crazy to claim that they still care more than most other SEC fanbases.

Obviously, we cared more about baseball than others in the past, and when things are going well you can still make that argument. But we certainly didn't care more during Polk's second run. Why were we able to get back so quickly? Because we made a great hire who played here when we were really good, and our history will always be what it is.

Programs with a good history and a lot of resources will always be able to turn things around quickly with the right hire. But that doesn't mean Alabama's fans, on average, care more than State fans. But there are more of them and they have more resources. Why? Because they won in the past.

You guys are right to some degree as to what got the ball rolling initially, but Shotgun is absolutely right that now it's just a self-perpetuating cycle.

If all the top 20 players in the country decided to go to State, we would become Alabama pretty quickly. It wouldn't matter at all how much their fans care.

[TUSK]

If bama boosters cared about baseball as much as they do football, would they be better?

[engie]

If all the top 20 players in the country decided to go to State, we would become Alabama pretty quickly. It wouldn't matter at all how much their fans care.

Where both of you are disconnecting is the pretense that Alabama fans/boosters don't actually play the role in where those kids go to school. Those kids go to Bama BECAUSE they care...

"Self-perpetuating cycle" is a bs myth. What happened during most of the 90s and 00s? The same exact thing that happened to us under Polk2. Didn't mean they ever cared less. Just were forced to wander the wilderness for awhile.

Saban is there because they care more. The illusion of a self-perpetuating cycle is because he's there. It ultimately all still ties back to the amount the fans care and are willing to invest.

[sandwolf]

Where both of you are disconnecting is the pretense that Alabama fans/boosters don't actually play the role in where those kids go to school. Those kids go to Bama BECAUSE they care..

Exactly.

For example, when recruits go to the Alabama spring game and see almost 100k fans in the stadium, you can bet that they are pretty impressed by it. And the reason that Bama has almost 100k at their spring game is because of how much they care.

[BulldogBear]

Exactly.

For example, when recruits go to the Alabama spring game and see almost 100k fans in the stadium, you can bet that they are pretty impressed by it. And the reason that Bama has almost 100k at their spring game is because of how much they care.

Correct me if I'm wrong engie, but in a nutshell, sandwolf's example is a good microcosm of what you're saying?

So, also, as the Bears claim they don't care about lil' ol cow college, this defines why we continue to push them further into the past!!! Just sayin'

[engie]

Correct me if I'm wrong engie, but in a nutshell, sandwolf's example is a good microcosm of what you're saying?

So, also, as the Bears claim they don't care about lil' ol cow college, this defines why we continue to push them further into the past!!! Just sayin'

Basically correct...

The "we don't care" thing just pushes them further behind. For one, I'm glad that our administration has put a premium on beating them. It's always going to be the first step towards relevance. No reason to hide from it -- unless you are busy pretending that you are already still relevant...

[BulldogBear]

Basically correct...

The "we don't care" thing just pushes them further behind. For one, I'm glad that our administration has put a premium on beating them. It's always going to be the first step towards relevance. No reason to hide from it -- unless you are busy pretending that you are already still relevant...

Example of "if I say it enough and get idoits to repeat it then it must be true." Seriously, it gets ridiculous, especially when their media allies go on about them just as if they are one of the big boys right there with LSU, FLA, BAMA. But the facts don't bear out anything over the last 30 years that would put Ole Miss as "better" than State at any big 3 sports, even at worst, edge to State at best. It's red herring and straw man all rolled into one.

[TUSK]

Unreal they find them self in this situation.

Jack, your question may have been rhetorical , but here's the skinny:

http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-David-Cornwell-142694;_ylt=AiotQmdFWCcNp8sHhpQkWN9DPZB4

http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Cooper-Bateman-124262;_ylt=ArG56lbsyEAPLZCk2XVSsyVDPZB4

http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Alec-Morris-123490;_ylt=Aielr_FpmfIo2SaCw8o_iThDPZB4

+ sims & Coker.

[ShotgunDawg]

Jack, your question may have been rhetorical , but here's the skinny:

http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-David-Cornwell-142694;_ylt=AiotQmdFWCcNp8sHhpQkWN9DPZB4

http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Cooper-Bateman-124262;_ylt=ArG56lbsyEAPLZCk2XVSsyVDPZB4

http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Alec-Morris-123490;_ylt=Aielr_FpmfIo2SaCw8o_iThDPZB4

+ sims & Coker.

Your helping us make our point. With all these guys on the roster, why do you have to go get Jacob Coker, and why don't you currently have a good QB?

[TUSK]

Probably bc My Dark Lord missed on some prospects/had to process them. I can't defend nick on this one, for sure. Hopefully, of the five 4* qbs he can find one capable of a handoff/throwing the ball into the 5th row.

[smootness]

Where both of you are disconnecting is the pretense that Alabama fans/boosters don't actually play the role in where those kids go to school. Those kids go to Bama BECAUSE they care...

"Self-perpetuating cycle" is a bs myth. What happened during most of the 90s and 00s? The same exact thing that happened to us under Polk2. Didn't mean they ever cared less. Just were forced to wander the wilderness for awhile.

Saban is there because they care more. The illusion of a self-perpetuating cycle is because he's there. It ultimately all still ties back to the amount the fans care and are willing to invest.

What you're saying is true to some extent, but it doesn't tell the whole story. Sure, 92,000 people at a spring game will probably impress recruits, but it's also impressive to them that the team has won national titles, other good players are going there, and the coach has a proven track record of winning.

LSU had the success Alabama is having now when Saban was there. Now Alabama is having that success and LSU, while obviously still successful, has come down a peg. The level the two fanbases care hasn't changed. You mentioned the 90s and beginning of the 00s for Alabama - well, did their fans care less then? Why did they have to hire Mike Shula?

Saban didn't go there because their fans care more, he went there because they paid him more and he knew with their history he could recruit well there. Again, they do have a bigger fanbase. That definitely matters; but it doesn't mean any of their fans care more than diehard State fans. It's an absurd argument. They have more fans because they win; I promise you that if we had a coach that turned the corner for us and had a better program than they did for 20 years, we would suddenly find ourselves with a bigger fanbase.

You would probably argue that we can't have more success than them for a 20-year period because their fans care more, but that's crazy to me. Sure, it's unlikely, because they have more resources and a better history. But again, the resources come from a bigger fanbase, thus more merchandise/ticket sales, etc. You take Random Fan A from Alabama and Random Fan A from State, they will care to the same extent. But when you get to Random Fan 500,000+ for Bama, suddenly there is no corresponding State fan.

[TUSK]

Wow. Too much there to fix this late.

Remind me to catch up w you tomorrow smoot


What you're saying is true to some extent, but it doesn't tell the whole story. Sure, 92,000 people at a spring game will probably impress recruits, but it's also impressive to them that the team has won national titles, other good players are going there, and the coach has a proven track record of winning.

LSU had the success Alabama is having now when Saban was there. Now Alabama is having that success and LSU, while obviously still successful, has come down a peg. The level the two fanbases care hasn't changed. You mentioned the 90s and beginning of the 00s for Alabama - well, did their fans care less then? Why did they have to hire Mike Shula?

Saban didn't go there because their fans care more, he went there because they paid him more and he knew with their history he could recruit well there. Again, they do have a bigger fanbase. That definitely matters; but it doesn't mean any of their fans care more than diehard State fans. It's an absurd argument. They have more fans because they win; I promise you that if we had a coach that turned the corner for us and had a better program than they did for 20 years, we would suddenly find ourselves with a bigger fanbase.

You would probably argue that we can't have more success than them for a 20-year period because their fans care more, but that's crazy to me. Sure, it's unlikely, because they have more resources and a better history. But again, the resources come from a bigger fanbase, thus more merchandise/ticket sales, etc. You take Random Fan A from Alabama and Random Fan A from State, they will care to the same extent. But when you get to Random Fan 500,000+ for Bama, suddenly there is no corresponding State fan.

[sandwolf]

.....but it doesn't mean any of their fans care more than diehard State fans. It's an absurd argument.

If you rounded up all of the top college football analysts/commentators/reporters - people like Kirk Herbstreit, who have interacted with the fans of every major program in the country - and you asked them to name what they thought to be the top 5 most diehard fanbases, every single one of them would list Alabama. So while there may not be any statistics out there that prove either side of this argument to be right or wrong, if one side of the argument had to be labeled as absurd, it would definitely be yours.