Engie....on the baseball stadium......

[Goat Holder]

I read that thread on 6-pack, and if you are trying to correlate winning championships to arms races (stadium and facilities), you're going to get worked.

2013: UCLA plays in a shit hole that seats like 41 people
2012: Arizona plays at freaking Hi Corbett Field
2011 and 2010: Do you really think South Carolina's program was built at Carolina Stadium? Go research Ray Tanner. Notice they played for the title in 2002 or somewhere around there.
2009: LSU, it has been pointed out that their program was not built at Alex Box
2008: Fresno, WTF
2007 and 2006: Oregon State. Goss Stadium baby, Jackson Prep would be jealous
2005: Texas - here's your first real nice stadium, but shit, they are Texas
Can't remember any further

Look, a new baseball stadium will be nice. I'm all for it if they want to do it. I most definitely want it to be more friendly to casual fans and students. But let's not act like Dudy Noble is holding us back. It helps more than it hurts, I assure you of this.

I will say this - maybe it will be about the arms race going forward. I personally think it's all about fan support. Whatever it takes to keep that part high, I'm all for it.

[engie]

You just jumped out of the boat and missed the water.

Congrats, Goat -- as usual...

[Goat Holder]

No, I didn't. You contradicted yourself. I was attempting to be nice to you and let you know the error of what you said without actually saying it.

[Coach34]

We're going to build a new stadium. For the life of me, I can't understand why this bothers people

[Goat Holder]

I want to understand why people say we HAVE to have this thing, and have to have it now.

[Political Hack]

my concern is them messing up the LFL.

How do you screw up the #1 place in America to watch a baseball game? You "fix" it.

[jumbo]

why do we have to have a new stadium? why can't they just make improvements to what we have?

[AROB44]

my concern is them messing up the LFL.

How do you screw up the #1 place in America to watch a baseball game? You "fix" it.


THIS.....ALL DAY LONG !!!!!!!!!!

[smootness]

why do we have to have a new stadium? why can't they just make improvements to what we have?

This topic has been beaten to its absolute death. The question is not, do we have to have a new stadium? The question is, will it be better for us? The answer to that is undoubtedly yes, I don't know how anyone could question that.

There is nothing sacred about Dudy Noble Field. We had plenty of success before it was ever built, and it is now behind the times. The thing that makes State baseball special is the fans, and they aren't going anywhere. It isn't the stadium, it isn't the current structures in the LFL, it is the fans, plain and simple.

So if we have the ability to couple that with the best facility in the country, why not do it?

[jumbo]

I guess then I'm with Hack...I just would hate seeing the LFL screwed up.

[smootness]

I guess then I'm with Hack...I just would hate seeing the LFL screwed up.

As long as it doesn't go away, how would you screw it up? People act like building some permanent structures out there completely changes it. As long as the fans keep showing up and doing what they do, it will remain the same.

If you just had the current structures out there with no people on them, it would suck. Similarly, if you have different structures but with the same people, it won't suck.

[engie]

No, I didn't. You contradicted yourself. I was attempting to be nice to you and let you know the error of what you said without actually saying it.

No, I didn't. You are just too stupid to understand what was a very simple point -- as evidenced by the fact you can't even respond to me on a board that is damn near impossible to get banned on -- yet you do -- on the reg.

Nowhere did I say a new stadium was a 100% precursor to us winning. I said it was a precursor to us "being the Jones's" again. Those are two different things -- and if you made an effort to be anything other than the biggest dumbass in MSU message board history -- you could easily see that.

But, hey, I still think the concrete of Dudy Noble is sacred and untouchable** Only took you how many years of arguing with me on that fact to accept reality? Yet YOU know what you are talking about**

[Goat Holder]

The thing that makes State baseball special is the fans, and they aren't going anywhere. It isn't the stadium, it isn't the current structures in the LFL, it is the fans, plain and simple.

In that same breath, why do we need a new stadium? After all, it's the fans not the stadium (and I agree). Why the huge push for a brand new stadium when we're still a top facility and the consensus NUMBER ONE venue to watch a college baseball game?

40 million dollars doesn't grow on trees, I don't care what network deal we get or what any other young, entitled spoiled brat thinks we deserve. If we have all this money, why do they keep the Bulldog Club open? Seems like chump change to me. Oh.....I know why. Because all that money from the networks is going to the price of doing business in the SEC - salaries, ALL facilities (not just baseball), etc. We're not going to have bags of cash laying around.

[Political Hack]

the LFL has a culture about it. That's what makes it special. It's not the lack of a permanent structure or the current rigs that are out there. It's the people and the comradity that make it special. The problem becomes that if you take away the old school rigs, the people will not be happy. If the people are not happy, they will not return by the thousands every weekend to partake in something that's unique and special. lose the rigs, lose the fans, lose the comradity.

And for anyone saying DNF is not sacred, you're wrong. it's sacred to thousands of fans.

[engie]

the LFL has a culture about it. That's what makes it special. It's not the lack of a permanent structure or the current rigs that are out there. It's the people and the comradity that make it special. The problem becomes that if you take away the old school rigs, the people will not be happy. If the people are not happy, they will not return by the thousands every weekend to partake in something that's unique and special. lose the rigs, lose the fans, lose the comradity.

And for anyone saying DNF is not sacred, you're wrong. it's sacred to thousands of fans.

So, it should be left alone to wither away then?

Sorry -- I disagree with 100% of what you said here.

And they aren't going to mess up LFL.

[Goat Holder]

You turn into a flat out ****** when you get proven wrong.

[ScoobaDawg]

the LFL has a culture about it. That's what makes it special. It's not the lack of a permanent structure or the current rigs that are out there. It's the people and the comradity that make it special. The problem becomes that if you take away the old school rigs, the people will not be happy. If the people are not happy, they will not return by the thousands every weekend to partake in something that's unique and special. lose the rigs, lose the fans, lose the comradity.

And for anyone saying DNF is not sacred, you're wrong. it's sacred to thousands of fans.


its unknown what the fans would do but I agree it would hurt the atmosphere if the rigs go away and they become built in structures instead of rigs. Not to mention if they jump the price too high.

The rigs are special because they are owned and are individual to the people who sit on them and made them. its about the special touches of individualism and history that everyone who sits out there loves. Its the friendships you have made with your neighboring rigs (even if its a Frat), It's your home at the ballpark.

Scott better not **** it up.
Change is coming though.

[Tbonewannabe]

I want to understand why people say we HAVE to have this thing, and have to have it now.

I LOVE MSU baseball. I got engaged in the RF lounge. I sat in some shitastic bleachers on Saturday where I couldn't see home plate. The bleachers is either not seeing home plate or having a horrible crick in your neck from being twisted the entire game. If you don't sit in the chairbacks or actually know someone who has a rig in the outfield, Dudy Noble sucks to actually watch a game. Especially since 99.9% of people that don't have a chairback can't sit there.

This is like trying to put paint on a car that doesn't have AC or a radio but you love it because you got laid in the backseat. New people thinks your car sucks, a paint job won't change that.

I don't know how anyone that has ever sat in the bleachers thinks the stadium can be fixed without TNT.

[Coach34]

We need a new stadium because we need more chair backs and to get rid of those awful bleachers.

Only thing LFL needs is to become more safe

Thats the bottom line

[engie]

You turn into a flat out ****** when you get proven wrong.

"Proven wrong"? Hilarious.

You turn into a flat moron when proven stupid. Then again -- that doesn't require my assistance...

[engie]

I LOVE MSU baseball. I got engaged in the RF lounge. I sat in some shitastic bleachers on Saturday where I couldn't see home plate. The bleachers is either not seeing home plate or having a horrible crick in your neck from being twisted the entire game. If you don't sit in the chairbacks or actually know someone who has a rig in the outfield, Dudy Noble sucks to actually watch a game. Especially since 99.9% of people that don't have a chairback can't sit there.

This is like trying to put paint on a car that doesn't have AC or a radio but you love it because you got laid in the backseat. New people thinks your car sucks, a paint job won't change that.

I don't know how anyone that has ever sat in the bleachers thinks the stadium can be fixed without TNT.

Exactly.

[Coach34]

I LOVE MSU baseball. I got engaged in the RF lounge. I sat in some shitastic bleachers on Saturday where I couldn't see home plate. The bleachers is either not seeing home plate or having a horrible crick in your neck from being twisted the entire game. If you don't sit in the chairbacks or actually know someone who has a rig in the outfield, Dudy Noble sucks to actually watch a game. Especially since 99.9% of people that don't have a chairback can't sit there.

This is like trying to put paint on a car that doesn't have AC or a radio but you love it because you got laid in the backseat. New people thinks your car sucks, a paint job won't change that.

I don't know how anyone that has ever sat in the bleachers thinks the stadium can be fixed without TNT.


dead on

[engie]

We need a new stadium because we need more chair backs and to get rid of those awful bleachers.

Only thing LFL needs is to become more safe

Thats the bottom line

And that's ultimately what's gong to happen.

More chairbacks and more premium options -- and a better overall experience...

[SignalToNoise]

I LOVE MSU baseball. I got engaged in the RF lounge. I sat in some shitastic bleachers on Saturday where I couldn't see home plate. The bleachers is either not seeing home plate or having a horrible crick in your neck from being twisted the entire game. If you don't sit in the chairbacks or actually know someone who has a rig in the outfield, Dudy Noble sucks to actually watch a game. Especially since 99.9% of people that don't have a chairback can't sit there.

This is like trying to put paint on a car that doesn't have AC or a radio but you love it because you got laid in the backseat. New people thinks your car sucks, a paint job won't change that.

I don't know how anyone that has ever sat in the bleachers thinks the stadium can be fixed without TNT.

Great post, and I laughed especially hard at your comparison. Well done.

[M.Fillmore]

We need a new stadium because we need more chair backs and to get rid of those awful bleachers.

Only thing LFL needs is to become more safe

Thats the bottom line

/\/\ THIS /\/\

[DudyDawg]

Serious question. Was there some announcement or new development as far as DNF or a new stadium is concerned? Haven't been here in a few days and there's a few threads going on about it so did something happen or are people just talking about it to talk about it??

[LC Dawg]

I LOVE MSU baseball. I got engaged in the RF lounge. I sat in some shitastic bleachers on Saturday where I couldn't see home plate. The bleachers is either not seeing home plate or having a horrible crick in your neck from being twisted the entire game. If you don't sit in the chairbacks or actually know someone who has a rig in the outfield, Dudy Noble sucks to actually watch a game. Especially since 99.9% of people that don't have a chairback can't sit there.

This is like trying to put paint on a car that doesn't have AC or a radio but you love it because you got laid in the backseat. New people thinks your car sucks, a paint job won't change that.

I don't know how anyone that has ever sat in the bleachers thinks the stadium can be fixed without TNT.

I agree completely. I rarely go to baseball games unless someone gives or sells me chairbacks because of the crappy bleachers. If I hadn't gotten chairbacks this past Saturday I probably wouldn't have gone. My daughter wanted to go Sunday so we sat in the bleachers, which were pretty jammed up. I think even worse than the discomfort of the seat and having to turn to watch the game was looking at all the empty seats in the grandstands that we couldn't sit in.

[smootness]

In that same breath, why do we need a new stadium? After all, it's the fans not the stadium (and I agree). Why the huge push for a brand new stadium when we're still a top facility and the consensus NUMBER ONE venue to watch a college baseball game?

DNF is no longer a top facility; some may not want to hear that, but it's absolutely true. The reason we keep being considered a great venue to watch a game is for the atmosphere and the fans. As long as that remains, it will continue to be a great venue regardless of the actual structure.

Why do we need to update the structure? To prove that we care about baseball and because it's needed. Why did Yankee Stadium get replaced? Because the old stadium was a pile of crap and it needed to be replaced. Building the new stadium didn't change anything about the experience of watching a game in NYC, except that now fans are more comfortable watching games there.

[BulldogBear]

We need a new stadium because we need more chair backs and to get rid of those awful bleachers.

Only thing LFL needs is to become more safe

Thats the bottom line

This^

I get that safety is an issue and we can't continue to get around addressing that. Bleachers should tap out and make an exit, and extend grandstand. That means more chairbacks please. In a few bleacher seats you can't even see home plate.

I agree with Hack on not screwing up LFL though. He mentioned the culture, which is a more succint way to put it than my comment in another thread about how LFL combines tailgating with watching a game inside the stadium. That IS what is part of what creates the unique atmosphere. Yeah, some people are alway gonna be hacked off if you piss on their party, but I don't think that's what we're talking about with the negative risk here.

Let me put on my tinfoil hat here. I don't wanna see a "negative" perfect storm. This is unlikely, but don't underestimate how damaging the culture IF it was (not purposely of course) timed with a couple of bad and frustrating seasons COMBINED with more TV exposure (the number of televised games is only going to grow and grow and grow) might set us back a decade in support and therefore even some in recruiting. Don't underestimate the power of taking away a kid's favorite toy to replace it with a sucky one. They may just play with something else (watch on tv). This is just an example. I'm trying to flesh out and put into words why a lot of us don't want to mess with something that's not broken except for safety concerns.

I would consider changing nothing except get VERY strict with safety and fire code.

If we must "fix" it, then no LFL concrete (grandstand), no bleachers. Build several DIFFERENT types of "riglike" structures out of extremely high quality treated wood so it may retain the rig feel rather than bleachers or grandstand.

[BulldogBear]

DNF is no longer a top facility; some may not want to hear that, but it's absolutely true. The reason we keep being considered a great venue to watch a game is for the atmosphere and the fans. As long as that remains, it will continue to be a great venue regardless of the actual structure.

Why do we need to update the structure? To prove that we care about baseball and because it's needed. Why did Yankee Stadium get replaced? Because the old stadium was a pile of crap and it needed to be replaced. Building the new stadium didn't change anything about the experience of watching a game in NYC, except that now fans are more comfortable watching games there.

15K crowds already prove we care about baseball

[smootness]

I agree with Hack on not screwing up LFL though. He mentioned the culture, which is a more succint way to put it than my comment in another thread about how LFL combines tailgating with watching a game inside the stadium. That IS what is part of what creates the unique atmosphere. Yeah, some people are alway gonna be hacked off if you piss on their party, but I don't think that's what we're talking about with the negative risk here.

And making some changes doesn't at all remove the fact that you will still be combining tailgating with watching the game inside the stadium.

Everyone close to the program agrees that big changes need to be made to DNF. I think some think that by 'big changes' that means make it a completely different things, but all it really means is making it modern and a better overall place to watch games.

[Goat Holder]

Just to talk about it. At least from my viewpoint.

[Goat Holder]

Address the money issue.

[Goat Holder]

So why again is this something that cannot be fixed by allowing people to come into the grandstand at any time? Yeah, some will still be inconvenienced during SBW and Regionals, but damn, that's like 10% of the season. Can't make decisions based on exceptions, that's what Ole Miss does.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Wow, we're still arguing about this?

We need a new grandstand/stadium. Period. PDS isn't a major hinderance NOW, but wait until Bama and UGA finish with what they're doing. With the advancement of baseball stadium architecture in the past 25 years, there's no possible way for us to make DNF/PDS an elite college ballpark again without starting over.

Take dynamite to the grandstand- anything less is a half-assed, lipstick on a pig renovation.

[messageboardsuperhero]

I LOVE MSU baseball. I got engaged in the RF lounge. I sat in some shitastic bleachers on Saturday where I couldn't see home plate. The bleachers is either not seeing home plate or having a horrible crick in your neck from being twisted the entire game. If you don't sit in the chairbacks or actually know someone who has a rig in the outfield, Dudy Noble sucks to actually watch a game. Especially since 99.9% of people that don't have a chairback can't sit there.

This is like trying to put paint on a car that doesn't have AC or a radio but you love it because you got laid in the backseat. New people thinks your car sucks, a paint job won't change that.

I don't know how anyone that has ever sat in the bleachers thinks the stadium can be fixed without TNT.

Absolutely perfect post.

[smootness]

So why again is this something that cannot be fixed by allowing people to come into the grandstand at any time? Yeah, some will still be inconvenienced during SBW and Regionals, but damn, that's like 10% of the season. Can't make decisions based on exceptions, that's what Ole Miss does.

Why not get the best we can possibly get rather than just putting lipstick on it and telling everyone to be ok with it?

What is the hesitation with rebuilding? It is an older structure that has aged even quicker than anticipated. It is now among the worst structures in the entire conference. Why be ok with that?

And what is the money issue? If we have the money, we have the money. What would be a better use of that money?

[Goat Holder]

I don't want to put lipstick on a pig. But we do need to consider the 'do-nothing' alternative. I wouldn't do anything based on 'what we deserve'. We don't deserve shit, we've never even won a national title. If we can make money with this thing, I'm all for it. But I don't want to go broke doing it. Show me the money. And not some bullshit data that engie thunk up one day while sitting in his lonely glow of his cubicle. Some of our fans bitch about the Farm Bureau sign, have you seen the 14 signs behind Alex Box's plate? Tony's and all kinds of stuff. That's what this is going to be. How can we guarantee we won't suck in 5 years and attendance goes away? We need to win big first and CEMENT our fanbase. We're a damn fickle bunch, I know. I was there during Polk II, 2009 and 2010. Actually THIS year is the first year our attendance has been respectable again. Not last year, outside SBW and Regionals. LSU and Carolina fill their shit up for EVERY series.

I want to see the numbers before I go all in on an idea. SECN money? BC? Corporation donations? No one knows (not even engine). That's probably also why we're not seeing a huge push to make this happen overnight, like so many think.

On the stadium, of course I'd like to have a brand new awesome stadium, who wouldn't. Don't put words in my mouth to try and argue.

[messageboardsuperhero]

In that same breath, why do we need a new stadium?

Why did we need to bowl in the football stadium? We could have just brought in some bigger bleachers to accommodate everyone. It won't help us win any games. What a total waste of money.**
Why did we need to build basketball and football practice facilities? It's not like the football team will be any better because of it. These things won't help us win any games. What a total waste of money.**

You build new facilities to elevate your program, attract recruits, accommodate fans, etc. Technically we don't NEED a new baseball stadium- just like we didn't NEED to bowl in the football stadium or build new practice facilities. No, these facility upgrades don't directly impact wins and losses, but they do impact the prestige/level of your program- which in turn does affect wins and losses.


Why the huge push for a brand new stadium when we're still a top facility and the consensus NUMBER ONE venue to watch a college baseball game?

DNF/PDS is absolutely, positively NOT a top facility. Not even close.

Yes, if you have connections, it is a fantastic place to watch baseball. The problem is, new fans don't have connections- thus their experience is awful. This is why most of the people who love MSU baseball are older. They got in on a sweetheart, good ole boy deal and have unintentionally shut out the majority of the next generation of MSU fans.

Don't get me wrong, I love our older fans, but we need to have a spot for new fans too. And finding/making a spot for new fans will be extremely difficult if we try to keep the current grandstand.

[Coach34]

So why again is this something that cannot be fixed by allowing people to come into the grandstand at any time? Yeah, some will still be inconvenienced during SBW and Regionals, but damn, that's like 10% of the season.

No

You have many people that would buy chairbacks that cant now with more seating
You also have people that absolutely refuse to come to baseball games because they would have to sit in the bleachers.

Families of 4-5 arent driving an hour or two to Sville on the "hope" they might be able to get into the Grandstand. We lose paying customers every weekend because of this.

[Political Hack]

So, it should be left alone to wither away then?

Sorry -- I disagree with 100% of what you said here.

And they aren't going to mess up LFL.

you disagree that it's special? that it has a culture about it? That DNF is not sacred to many of our fans?

You're wrong.

[Goat Holder]

Why did we need to bowl in the football stadium? We could have just brought in some bigger bleachers to accommodate everyone. It won't help us win any games. What a total waste of money.**
Why did we need to build basketball and football practice facilities? It's not like the football team will be any better because of it. These things won't help us win any games. What a total waste of money.**

You build new facilities to elevate your program, attract recruits, accommodate fans, etc. Technically we don't NEED a new baseball stadium- just like we didn't NEED to bowl in the football stadium or build new practice facilities. No, these facility upgrades don't directly impact wins and losses, but they do impact the prestige/level of your program- which in turn does affect wins and losses.

Glad to see you agree.

Look I get what you're saying. I realize all that. Contrary to many internet sheep, I am FAR from an idiot. I do disagree with this:


DNF/PDS is absolutely, positively NOT a top facility. Not even close.

That's wrong, pal. Just because it's older doesn't mean it's not nice. Players love playing there, visiting fans love coming. Just because you had to stand in line at the concession stand doesn't mean it's not a top venue. This is simply where we disagree, nothing more.


Yes, if you have connections, it is a fantastic place to watch baseball. The problem is, new fans don't have connections- thus their experience is awful. This is why most of the people who love MSU baseball are older. They got in on a sweetheart, good ole boy deal and have unintentionally shut out the majority of the next generation of MSU fans.

Don't get me wrong, I love our older fans, but we need to have a spot for new fans too. And finding/making a spot for new fans will be extremely difficult if we try to keep the current grandstand.

100% agree. I am just not convinced that a new grandstand is the ONLY way to do this.

Thank you for a reasonable response.

[Coach34]

exactly- if you cant get on a rig or sit in chairbacks- Dudy Noble sucks

You couldnt pay me to sit in those bleachers. 1989 was first and last time to ever do that shit

[messageboardsuperhero]

I don't want to put lipstick on a pig. But we do need to consider the 'do-nothing' alternative. I wouldn't do anything based on 'what we deserve'. We don't deserve shit, we've never even won a national title. If we can make money with this thing, I'm all for it. But I don't want to go broke doing it. Show me the money. And not some bullshit data that engie thunk up one day while sitting in his lonely glow of his cubicle. Some of our fans bitch about the Farm Bureau sign, have you seen the 14 signs behind Alex Box's plate? Tony's and all kinds of stuff. That's what this is going to be. How can we guarantee we won't suck in 5 years and attendance goes away? We need to win big first and CEMENT our fanbase. We're a damn fickle bunch, I know. I was there during Polk II, 2009 and 2010. Actually THIS year is the first year our attendance has been respectable again. Not last year, outside SBW and Regionals. LSU and Carolina fill their shit up for EVERY series.

I want to see the numbers before I go all in on an idea. SECN money? BC? Corporation donations? No one knows (not even engine). That's probably also why we're not seeing a huge push to make this happen overnight, like so many think.

On the stadium, of course I'd like to have a brand new awesome stadium, who wouldn't. Don't put words in my mouth to try and argue.

The do nothing alternative is completely out the window. The administration wouldn't have held multiple town hall meetings and hired a damn architecture dream team if they had any intention on "doing nothing."

I personally don't mind a few ads. If that's what it takes to pay the bills, so be it.

I don't know about South Carolina, but as for LSU's attendance, did you watch any of our games in Baton Rouge this year? That place was only halfway full. We've had better actual attendance this year in each our SEC series than they had in the series against us. I believe the three day actual total was something like 15,000-16,000- so don't give me this line about LSU "filling their stadium up" when I've seen first hand that they haven't.

As for money, I have absolutely no idea how Stricklin is planning on raising it- I don't work for him or have access to any of that information. How in the world should I know about who's donating what for this? Do we have an unlimited supply of money to throw at this? No, but it's probably not as bad as you're making it out to be. And yes, this new grandstand/stadium absolutely would make us more money- there's no doubt about that.

[preachermatt83]

I have a family of 3 and I would buy chairbacks right freaking now if they would sell them to me.

[drummerdawg]

I lost some faith in what Scott will do with the stadium when he said he thought berms were a good idea.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

We're going to build a new stadium. For the life of me, I can't understand why this bothers people

Let's see what they come up with this summer.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Address the money issue.

Money wont be an issue.

[engie]

you disagree that it's special? that it has a culture about it? That DNF is not sacred to many of our fans?

You're wrong.

Our people and culture is what's special.

The field and concrete are nothing. They are just there for the party.

[engie]

That's wrong, pal. Just because it's older doesn't mean it's not nice. Players love playing there, visiting fans love coming.
You have more trouble than anyone else I've ran into in understanding what it REALLY is that makes Dudy Noble special. Thanks for coming out with the ridiculousness again in this thread though after all this time.

Saying Dudy Noble is "nice" is like saying Petty's is "nice". No, it isn't. Can it be "good"? Yes. Nice? Hell no. It's so nice they have a half dozen floor unit AC's in the hallways of the skyboxes. "Nice" indeed...


Just because you had to stand in line at the concession stand doesn't mean it's not a top venue.
Stand in like for concessions, stand in line to pee, can't see the game from the concourses, can't see the game from anywhere other than their seats. That's what make it "not a top venue." Anyone that's been to a single game at Trustmark Park and still call Dudy Noble a "top venue" are of questionable intelligence. Sorry.

[ScoobaDawg]

Our people and culture is what's special.

The field and concrete are nothing. They are just there for the party.

the rigs are a big party of what makes it special like I said earlier.

[messageboardsuperhero]

That's wrong, pal. Just because it's older doesn't mean it's not nice. Players love playing there, visiting fans love coming. Just because you had to stand in line at the concession stand doesn't mean it's not a top venue. This is simply where we disagree, nothing more.

I strongly disagree with you.

Yes, players love playing here and fans (who have connections) love coming- but this is due to the ATMOSPHERE and not the aesthetics/amenities of the stadium. We can keep the atmosphere and have college baseball's #1 stadium if we start over- in other words, it would be a best of both worlds.

Currently, this is how I'd rank SEC West baseball stadiums (in other words, the teams we compete against) based on aesthetics and amenities:

1. LSU
2. Arkansas
3/4. UM and A&M
5. Auburn
6. MSU
7. Bama

The problem is, Bama is about to throw $35 million at their stadium and pass at least us and Auburn, and they'll probably pass UM and A&M as well. Something has to be done. And I'm sure you're about to say "DNF is better than Auburn." Well, the atmosphere is much better- but I'm talking about the actual quality of the grandstand, not the atmosphere.

[ScoobaDawg]

You have more trouble than anyone else I've ran into in understanding what it REALLY is that makes Dudy Noble special. Thanks for coming out with the ridiculousness again in this thread though after all this time.

Saying Dudy Noble is "nice" is like saying Petty's is "nice". No, it isn't. Can it be "good"? Yes. Nice? Hell no. It's so nice they have a half dozen floor unit AC's in the hallways of the skyboxes. "Nice" indeed...


Stand in like for concessions, stand in line to pee, can't see the game from the concourses, can't see the game from anywhere other than their seats. That's what make it "not a top venue." Anyone that's been to a single game at Trustmark Park and still call Dudy Noble a "top venue" are of questionable intelligence. Sorry.

Goat is impossible. He just doesn't get it....and many other other things. 30 days wasn't enough.

[engie]

the rigs are a big party of what makes it special like I said earlier.

No one denies that. Nor will that part of it be going away.

[engie]

Dudy Noble is basically Smith Wills grandstand wise. I drew that connection as I was walking up to it from the outside on Sunday. It damn sure ain't Trustmark Park.

Why couldn't we pull a minor league franchise or a decade in that stadium? Even with renovations several times and more consistently promised? Because it just wasn't and would never have become sufficient for a minor league club without completely starting over...

[Political Hack]

Our people and culture is what's special.

The field and concrete are nothing. They are just there for the party.

that's the same thing I said. You said you disagree 100%. I'm not following.

[LC Dawg]

For all those who think that all visitors think its a "great experience" to watch baseball at DNF why don't you ask a friend who's never been to DNF to attend a weekend series with you. Sit in the bleachers for all three games and see what the friend thinks of the "experience". Sitting in the bleachers is a shitty experience and for a lot of people it is the only way they can watch a game at DNF.

[engie]

that's the same thing I said. You said you disagree 100%. I'm not following.

Saying "Dudy Noble is special" implies something totally different than "the people that make up LFL are special"... You implied that any changes out there will burst the bubble -- when in reality, it changes every single year anyway...

[Goat Holder]

You and engine really should take a hint from messageboardsuperhero on how to post. It's possible to disagree without being an idiot. I think you and engine suck pretty hard, but I didn't tell you that until now. But by all means, ban me because I don't agree with you. Pathetic, pal.

[Goat Holder]

I look at it like football stadiums. Nobody cares how old Bryant Denny or Neyland area, they are still considered outstanding venues. I mean, there comes a point where you have to replace things, sure. Bottom line I feel like we're doing this prematurely.

[maroonmania]

THIS.....ALL DAY LONG !!!!!!!!!!

Yep, like they "fixed" the Hump. Place doesn't have half the atmosphere it used to have. And that applied even before the program went to crap.

[bobcat91]

DNF is a poor experience for anyone that isn't in the grandstand or LFL. This is simply a fight between those who got a long term sweetheart deal in the chairbacks and the LFL folks not caring if anyone else enjoys the experience. These folks are aware that if a new stadium is built then their monopoly is over. We need a new facility so that everyone can enjoy the game and our team as opposed to just a few.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

I look at it like football stadiums. Nobody cares how old Bryant Denny or Neyland area, they are still considered outstanding venues. I mean, there comes a point where you have to replace things, sure. Bottom line I feel like we're doing this prematurely.

Bryant denny is one of the nicest stadiums in the country. Probably the nicest behind new a&m

Neyland is a dump

[Todd4State]

Why are we having this discussion?

The grandstand is outdated. It could be better- and we are going to make it better.

Scott knows the LFL is special and does everyone associated with MSU. They are going to do everything to make sure it stays special but update it.

In my years of watching baseball and seeing stadiums come and go I have yet to see one instance where they built a new stadium and it was considered worse than the one before it.

Part of the problem is all our fans are seeing is Dudy-Noble Field as it is. I think if we had a renovated/new Dudy-Noble Field to compare to the current one where people could see what is exactly going to happen, I think people would see how silly they are being.

[engie]

I look at it like football stadiums. Nobody cares how old Bryant Denny or Neyland area, they are still considered outstanding venues. I mean, there comes a point where you have to replace things, sure. Bottom line I feel like we're doing this prematurely.

I look at it like baseball stadiums -- you know -- the thing they actually compare to. Feel free to delve into the minors if you see fit.

MLB Stadiums and their open dates.

Angel Stadium of Anaheim 1966
AT&T Park 2000
Busch Stadium 2006
Chase Field 1998
Citi Field 2009
Citizens Bank Park 2004
Comerica Park 2000
Coors Field 1995
Dodger Stadium 1962
Fenway Park 1912
Globe Life Park in Arlington 1994
Great American Ball Park 2003
Kauffman Stadium 1973
Marlins Park 2012
Miller Park 2001
Minute Maid Park 2000
Nationals Park 2008
O.Co. Coliseum 1966
Oriole Park at Camden Yards 1992
Petco Park 2004
PNC Park 2001
Progressive Field 1994
Rogers Centre 1989
Safeco Field 1999
Target Field 2010
Tropicana Field 1990
Turner Field 1996
U.S. Cellular Field 1991
Wrigley Field 1914
Yankee Stadium 2009

Giants and Braves reopening new stadiums in 2017.

There are only 6 stadiums in all of MLB that are older than Dudy Noble Field.
Angel Stadium - Built in 66. $100mil renovation in 1998.
Dodger Stadium - Built in 62. $100mil in current renovations ongoing. Janet Marie Smith
Fenway Park - Built in 12. $285mil in renovations over the past 10 years. Janet Marie Smith
Kauffman Stadium - Built in 73. $250mil in renovations in 2009.
O.Co. Coliseum - Built in 66. Mild renovations over time -- In search of a new Stadium.
Wrigley Field - Built in 14. $500mil in renovations ongoing.

So, basically everyone in baseball has either spent about as much money as building brand new -- or built brand new -- sans the Athletics in their shithole -- since we built an unmodified Dudy Noble Field...

[engie]

Yep, like they "fixed" the Hump. Place doesn't have half the atmosphere it used to have. And that applied even before the program went to crap.

Like Dudy Noble would never be the same -- But it's seemed awfully similar these last two years.

Just win. The people will come and the atmosphere will self-correct. Hate to tell people -- but more changes are coming to the Hump too. We're leaving too much money on the table with the current configuration...

[ghostofjackie]

We're going to build a new stadium. For the life of me, I can't understand why this bothers people

I don't understand it either. People act like we will ruin the atmosphere of the left field lounge if we build a new stadium.

Here is reality. The rigs are pulled up to the decking behind the wall. It takes two things to make this happen.

1. Decking
2. Ground

We ****ing have both of those. How hard is it to recreate that in our brand new stadium? You provide empty space and a deck. Hell, they might even flatten it out a little better and provide pavement for those who have trouble backing up.

Either way, the same rigs will be there with the same people standing on the same deck and pulling up on the same ground. The grandstand is the problem and we can start over without ruining your deck and your ground.

[State82]

Anyone that's been to a single game at Trustmark Park and still call Dudy Noble a "top venue" are of questionable intelligence. Sorry.

Yep. The only thing DNF and TP have in common is a baseball diamond that is 90' square inside them. TP is as nice of a facility as you will watch a game in. Set TP down on the site where Polk-Dement is situated and we are in business. That is exactly what I want to see. Or some semblance thereof. Obviously it would not fit exactly but you see what I mean. 7500 nice chair back seats, wide open concourse, good outfield area. Perfect.

[Political Hack]

I don't think anyone is scared of a new grandstand or new bleachers. Everyone's just hoping the LFL "improvement" is actually that... an improvement.

[engie]

Scott isn't going to screw up LFL... He fully knows the magnitude of any decisions he makes out there...

[Homedawg]

Scott isn't going to screw up LFL... He fully knows the magnitude of any decisions he makes out there...

I agree it's going to be fine. But some will argue w your definition of screw up. Because in some eyes if the old rigs don't stay as it is today then it's a screw up. And if that's a screw up, well, one's coming.

[Johnson85]

...The thing that makes State baseball special is the fans, and they aren't going anywhere. It isn't the stadium, it isn't the current structures in the LFL, it is the fans, plain and simple.

So if we have the ability to couple that with the best facility in the country, why not do it?

The 'specialness' of LFL is an emergent, cultural thing. It wasn't planned or designed. If you could simply copy it, tons of teams would. We could redo basically everything in the stadium and leave LFL the same, and it's not a guarantee that LFL would be the same. I'm not saying I'm against a new stadium. I'm not informed enough to know. But I understand people worried about the LFL. I think it could easily be screwed up while 'fixing' it. It's just hard to know why it's so special. Again, if you could simply copy the structures and put good fans there and recreate it, it wouldn't be so special because there'd be a lot of them.

That said, I'd be very confident in the state grad that I think designed Camden yards, Autozone Park, and did the conversion of the Atlanta olympioc stadium. Can't remember her name, and I may be giving her credit for the wrong stadiums, but I remember her portfolio being damned impressive when I looked at it over ten years ago and the only two stadiums I had been to that she did I thought were great.

[maroonmania]

Like Dudy Noble would never be the same -- But it's seemed awfully similar these last two years.

Just win. The people will come and the atmosphere will self-correct. Hate to tell people -- but more changes are coming to the Hump too. We're leaving too much money on the table with the current configuration...

I'm specifically talking about hoping they don't screw up the atmosphere of LFL by tinkering with it too much. They DID kill the atmosphere in the Hump with the reseating a few years ago. Its never been the same. Now as far as the chairbacks and the bleachers do whatever you want. The chairbacks are NEVER filled and the bleachers are crap. Even over SBW the chairbacks weren't filled. In fact, the lifetime chairback contracts are THE #1 reason to demolish PDS and build a new grandstand. The bleachers were just a makeshift thing brought in after the stadium was built to accommodate more folks years ago. Certainly no foresight in "sightlines" are anything else related to the "bleacher experience".

[Political Hack]

Saying "Dudy Noble is special" implies something totally different than "the people that make up LFL are special"... You implied that any changes out there will burst the bubble -- when in reality, it changes every single year anyway...

I actually said there need to be some changes for safety and accessibility issues and said that they should add to the atmosphere out there by adding more general seating/box options.

[Todd4State]

I don't think anyone is scared of a new grandstand or new bleachers. Everyone's just hoping the LFL "improvement" is actually that... an improvement.

If Scott doesn't improve the LFL, we'll probably end up with an improvement at AD. Scott knows that too.

A lot of people kind of doubt him over the Rick Ray hire- but if he can make Dudy-Noble into something awesome I think he will win some people over.

[Offshore Dawg]

We need a new stadium because we need more chair backs and to get rid of those awful bleachers.

Only thing LFL needs is to become more safe

Thats the bottom line
"ding, ding, we have a winner"

[BulldogBear]

The 'specialness' of LFL is an emergent, cultural thing. It wasn't planned or designed. If you could simply copy it, tons of teams would. We could redo basically everything in the stadium and leave LFL the same, and it's not a guarantee that LFL would be the same. I'm not saying I'm against a new stadium. I'm not informed enough to know. But I understand people worried about the LFL. I think it could easily be screwed up while 'fixing' it. It's just hard to know why it's so special. Again, if you could simply copy the structures and put good fans there and recreate it, it wouldn't be so special because there'd be a lot of them.

This guy gets it. Let's do what we need to do but put the brakes on "full steam ahead" for a whole new stadium. Really, I do more or less have faith that there not gonna mess it with any more than they have to. I'm just expressing concern about the idea. It doesn't need to become "change for the sake of change," which is NEVER a good reason for change. An idea is planted and like tributaries flowing into a river it grows and grows and takes on a life of it's on and sooner rather than later it becomes "progress" and questions that need to be asked don't get asked because the parties involved got too busy wondering if they could make it happen. Then the thrill of "something new" or of "creation" takes over and project goes ahead full force and yet, was never truly thought out from all angles. I'm not saying that's where it seems to be headed. I just wanna make sure it doesn't.

[bobcat91]

There have been needs at DN for years, even while Coach Polk was here. No one is making change for change sake. They aren't making changes at all. This has been an extremely deliberate process.

[Coach34]

As long as you can grill and drink in the OF- LFL will be "special"