Teheran

[msstate7]

3-hit complete game shut out. His era is now 1.93. Do the braves finally have a true number 1?

[starkvegasdawg]

Ask that question again in two months.

[msstate7]

Ask that question again in two months.

Yeah it's early. Teheran did have an outstanding rookie year, spring, and now he's carrying it into this year. Teheran was one of baseball's best pitching prospects and seems to be living up to it. I'm going on record that he's gonna be one of the best in the nl this year and a cy young candidate

[smootness]

Yeah it's early. Teheran did have an outstanding rookie year, spring, and now he's carrying it into this year. Teheran was one of baseball's best pitching prospects and seems to be living up to it. I'm going on record that he's gonna be one of the best in the nl this year and a cy young candidate

I'm inclined to agree with this. I'd like to see his K numbers come up to where they were in the minors, but I'm not concerned with it. He's clearly pitching to contact more now, and it's working.

I think Santana could have an ace-type year as well in his first year in the NL, similar to the way Gio Gonzalez did a few years ago.

I don't think there's a team in baseball right now I would swap our top 4 starters with.

[msstate7]

I'm inclined to agree with this. I'd like to see his K numbers come up to where they were in the minors, but I'm not concerned with it. He's clearly pitching to contact more now, and it's working.

I think Santana could have an ace-type year as well in his first year in the NL, similar to the way Gio Gonzalez did a few years ago.

I don't think there's a team in baseball right now I would swap our top 4 starters with.

I agree. What's crazy is we've lost 2 good starters and minor isn't even pitching yet.

[smootness]

I agree. What's crazy is we've lost 2 good starters and minor isn't even pitching yet.

Indeed, although I was including Minor in my 'top 4'. I can't include Harang. I can't believe how well he's pitched, but he's definitely due for some regression.

[dawgs]

I'm inclined to agree with this. I'd like to see his K numbers come up to where they were in the minors, but I'm not concerned with it. He's clearly pitching to contact more now, and it's working.

I think Santana could have an ace-type year as well in his first year in the NL, similar to the way Gio Gonzalez did a few years ago.

I don't think there's a team in baseball right now I would swap our top 4 starters with.

ervin santana has a long MLB history that says he's not an ace. he's had some very good years and at one time maybe showed ace potential (after 2008, if he had taken the next step forward), but he's also had some shitty seasons. and he's now over 30, so the potential is pretty much gone. he is what he is.

gio gonzalez was still only 26 when he came over from the A's, already had 2 seasons better than santana's best season before being traded, and the AL to NL benefits were muted a bit by moving from a big time pitcher's park to a neutral park.

i'm not saying santana wasn't a great pickup for the braves, and isn't a solid middle of the rotation guy, but i'm just saying that your expectations and comparison are a bit offbase.

[msstate7]

ervin santana has a long MLB history that says he's not an ace. he's had some very good years and at one time maybe showed ace potential (after 2008, if he had taken the next step forward), but he's also had some shitty seasons. and he's now over 30, so the potential is pretty much gone. he is what he is.

gio gonzalez was still only 26 when he came over from the A's, already had 2 seasons better than santana's best season before being traded, and the AL to NL benefits were muted a bit by moving from a big time pitcher's park to a neutral park.

i'm not saying santana wasn't a great pickup for the braves, and isn't a solid middle of the rotation guy, but i'm just saying that your expectations and comparison are a bit offbase.

Maybe you're right, but Santana has never had Simmons at ss (best in mlb), Heyward in rf (best in mlb), ff at 1b (really good defensively), bj in cf (really good defender). In other words, this is the best defense around Santana he's ever had. Oh and pitching in the nl is easier

[smootness]

ervin santana has a long MLB history that says he's not an ace. he's had some very good years and at one time maybe showed ace potential (after 2008, if he had taken the next step forward), but he's also had some shitty seasons. and he's now over 30, so the potential is pretty much gone. he is what he is.

gio gonzalez was still only 26 when he came over from the A's, already had 2 seasons better than santana's best season before being traded, and the AL to NL benefits were muted a bit by moving from a big time pitcher's park to a neutral park.

i'm not saying santana wasn't a great pickup for the braves, and isn't a solid middle of the rotation guy, but i'm just saying that your expectations and comparison are a bit offbase.

I never said he was an ace. Gio isn't an ace, either, but he sure looked like one in 2012. It absolutely is a valid comparison. Gio was probably slightly better in the AL than Santana but they were very similar - Gio struck out a little more, Santana walked a little less but other than that they were similar guys. I don't care about age; history says pitchers hit their peaks at a much more variable age than hitters, and some become much better into their 30s.

My point about moving to the NL wasn't really about facing one fewer real hitter a game, it was more that a lot of these hitters haven't seen you on a regular basis, so generally you're probably going to be a little more effective that first season. Gio's regression back to basically the pitcher he was in Oakland (very good, not elite) tells me that probably had something to do with his success in 2012.

Again, the point is valid. Gio isn't an ace but in his first season in the NL, he pitched like one. Santana isn't an ace, either, but I'm saying he could have a similar year; his first two starts certainly looked good.

[Political Hack]

they've got 3 super studs over the last two series, if you don't count out Kimbrell for being hurt. those arms plus the bats they have could make for a very exciting October.

[FISHDAWG]

Indeed, although I was including Minor in my 'top 4'. I can't include Harang. I can't believe how well he's pitched, but he's definitely due for some regression.

talk here in ATL is possibly moving Harang to the bull pen as a middle reliever to make room for Minor .... I can't decide if it should be the other way around but I guess you HAVE to go with Minor given the past .... I just believe in the hot-hand mentality

[smootness]

talk here in ATL is possibly moving Harang to the bull pen as a middle reliever to make room for Minor .... I can't decide if it should be the other way around but I guess you HAVE to go with Minor given the past .... I just believe in the hot-hand mentality

I'm in ATL as well, but I haven't heard that. Harang will still be in the rotation when Minor comes back, it's Hale that won't.

And I would never in a million years move Minor to the pen for any reason but especially not to make room for Aaron Harang. That would be nuts.

[dawgs]

talk here in ATL is possibly moving Harang to the bull pen as a middle reliever to make room for Minor .... I can't decide if it should be the other way around but I guess you HAVE to go with Minor given the past .... I just believe in the hot-hand mentality

lulz the harangutang is a mediocre or worse SP that's had a couple of good starts. it would be ludicrous to leave him in the rotation while moving one of your young SPs in and out of the rotation for him.

[dawgs]

I never said he was an ace. Gio isn't an ace, either, but he sure looked like one in 2012. It absolutely is a valid comparison. Gio was probably slightly better in the AL than Santana but they were very similar - Gio struck out a little more, Santana walked a little less but other than that they were similar guys. I don't care about age; history says pitchers hit their peaks at a much more variable age than hitters, and some become much better into their 30s.

My point about moving to the NL wasn't really about facing one fewer real hitter a game, it was more that a lot of these hitters haven't seen you on a regular basis, so generally you're probably going to be a little more effective that first season. Gio's regression back to basically the pitcher he was in Oakland (very good, not elite) tells me that probably had something to do with his success in 2012.

Again, the point is valid. Gio isn't an ace but in his first season in the NL, he pitched like one. Santana isn't an ace, either, but I'm saying he could have a similar year; his first two starts certainly looked good.

since 2010, gio is a top 20 SP among SPs with 600+ IP in era, war, K/9, fip...basically almost any relevant measure of a SP. it wasn't a 1 year thing in 2012. sure that was his best year, but he's been very very good before and after that. sure he's not verlander/kershaw/lee/wainwright level, but he's really really good, and to suggest santana is going to be on his level is absolutely pure homerism.

santana has been a top 20 SP for a single season once in his career (2008), and never over any period of multiple years. best case scenario, santana gives a mid-3.00s era and 200+ IP (that's still very valuable, so i'm not saying he sucks). it's april 17, there's a lot of baseball left to be played, and i think you are getting a bit wrapped up in a couple of early starts.

[FISHDAWG]

it might have been Hale but the guys were talking to Kevin McKalpin (braves beat reporter) this am and that's what he said was one of the possibilities that he had heard discussed .... they were previously talking about Harang before that so yes, you may be right it could be Hale, but I was almost certain it was Harang

[smootness]

since 2010, gio is a top 20 SP among SPs with 600+ IP in era, war, K/9, fip...basically almost any relevant measure of a SP. it wasn't a 1 year thing in 2012. sure that was his best year, but he's been very very good before and after that. sure he's not verlander/kershaw/lee/wainwright level, but he's really really good, and to suggest santana is going to be on his level is absolutely pure homerism.

santana has been a top 20 SP for a single season once in his career (2008), and never over any period of multiple years. best case scenario, santana gives a mid-3.00s era and 200+ IP (that's still very valuable, so i'm not saying he sucks). it's april 17, there's a lot of baseball left to be played, and i think you are getting a bit wrapped up in a couple of early starts.

How many SPs have even thrown 200+ IP since 2010? Gio is a very good SP, I'm not saying he isn't. But go look at their numbers - if you remove Santana's one down year since he figured it out, he's been barely behind Gio.

Gio's 2012 is an outlier - he went from very good to one of the top few pitchers in baseball. Santana has been very good; it's not crazy to suggest he can have a great year this year. You seem to think I'm telling you he will become an ace. I'm just saying he can have one year that is an outlier for him, much like Gio.

It isn't homerism, I've always felt Santana was underrated and said all this before the year began; his first couple of starts just haven't changed my mind.

[dawgs]

How many SPs have even thrown 200+ IP since 2010? Gio is a very good SP, I'm not saying he isn't. But go look at their numbers - if you remove Santana's one down year since he figured it out, he's been barely behind Gio.

Gio's 2012 is an outlier - he went from very good to one of the top few pitchers in baseball. Santana has been very good; it's not crazy to suggest he can have a great year this year. You seem to think I'm telling you he will become an ace. I'm just saying he can have one year that is an outlier for him, much like Gio.

It isn't homerism, I've always felt Santana was underrated and said all this before the year began; his first couple of starts just haven't changed my mind.

3.23
3.12
2.89
3.36

that's not much of any outlier. and lots of SPs have thrown 200+ IP since 2010, but since i'm assuming you meant to type 600+ IP, that's over 4+ full seasons, so even guys like wainwright who lost a full season to TJ surgery have thrown over 600+.

ftr, it appears there's been 63 SPs to throw 600+ IP since 2010. lowering that to 500 IP and it's 97, but doesn't change gio's standing as a top 15-20 SP over that time.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=500&type=8&season=2014&month=0&season1=2010&ind=0&team=&rost=&age=&filter=&players=

[dawgs]

at the very very least, you have to admit that gio has consistently shown the ability to keep his era in the low 3.00s, which is something santana has never been able to maintain. consistency is huge when it comes to pitching.

[shoeless joe]

I'd like to see Teheran be a little more consistent before he is crowned a true ace...but he def had the stuff.

He was also helped out last nite by several nice defensive plays from the terrible defender that is dan uggla**