Marquette is courting Kwanza from Tenn [Archive]

Coach34

03-30-2014, 08:49 PM

War Machine Dawg

03-30-2014, 08:55 PM

Not sure Shaka or Marshall need to leave where they are...they both make big money and dont have as tough of a path to the NCAA Tourney. The rise of the mid-majors the last 5 years or so has really made them very attractive

I've got it on good authority from a buddy who's a Shocker alum that Marshall isn't leaving anytime soon, unless someone like Dook comes calling. His kids are in school and he wants them to finish before he leaves is what Marshall has been saying.

jalakin

03-30-2014, 08:58 PM

Sorry, for this but why can't you spell Cuonzo Martins name right? It just bothers me that you get other names right but always put his misspelled.

DawgInMemphis

03-30-2014, 08:59 PM

Sorry, for this but why can't you spell Cuonzo Martins name right? It just bothers me that you get other names right but always put his misspelled.

Not to mention the way it was misspelled comes across as racist.

War Machine Dawg

03-30-2014, 09:03 PM

Sorry, for this but why can't you spell Cuonzo Martins name right? It just bothers me that you get other names right but always put his misspelled.

You do realize that's C34's nickname for him, don't you? He/we have a nickname for virtually every coach in the damn league. Kwanzaa, Freezus, Brick Ray, Intense Bastard, Mad Hatter, The Visor, Boomer, etc.

DawgInMemphis

03-30-2014, 09:13 PM

You do realize that's C34's nickname for him, don't you? He/we have a nickname for virtually every coach in the damn league. Kwanzaa, Freezus, Brick Ray, Intense Bastard, Mad Hatter, The Visor, Boomer, etc.

There's nothing wrong with nicknames. Several of the ones you listed are national nicknames - not C34's nor anyone else's on this site. I don't take offense to Brick Ray nor Freezus. I wouldn't be prone to referring to one of our own as Brick Ray, but to each his own. However, misspelling Cuonzo as Kwanza comes across as racist to me. Perhaps it's all in good fun and C34 means no ill will, but I would imagine it rubs a bunch of people the wrong way.

Coach34

03-30-2014, 09:18 PM

Not to mention the way it was misspelled comes across as racist.

i would like to know how nick naming a black coach after a black holiday that is pronounced extremely close to his name is racist? So calling a white girl named Kristin "Christmas" would be racist too huh according to you?

I have nicknames for damn near everybody I know, have dated, and have coached. I'm not seeing the problem

DawgInMemphis

03-30-2014, 09:22 PM

i would like to know how nick naming a black coach after a black holiday that is pronounced extremely close to his name is racist?

I have nicknames for damn near everybody I know, have dated, and have coached. I'm not seeing the problem

I'm not trying to get into an argument with you. I'm simply pointing out that it comes across as racist to me.

Coach34

03-30-2014, 09:40 PM

I'm not trying to get into an argument with you. I'm simply pointing out that it comes across as racist to me.

ok- why? Its a black man and a black holiday. Again I ask- would calling a white girl named Kristin "Christmas" be racist? I'm not understanding

Intramural All-American

03-30-2014, 09:49 PM

Christmas isn't a "white" holiday, Coach. It's a holiday for everyone. No blacks I know celebrate Kwanza, although it's obviously an African holiday. Just pointing out semantics here.

Now, if you called Judy, Jewdy, I could see that as racist.

Will James

03-30-2014, 09:53 PM

although it's obviously an African holiday.

It's actually a made up holiday. Literally. Made up in the 1960's.

Coach34

03-30-2014, 09:54 PM

Christmas isn't a "white" holiday, Coach. It's a holiday for everyone. .

Just meant in its orgination as it was spread by white Europeans to Africa and the US

Dawg496

03-30-2014, 09:59 PM

It's actually a made up holiday. Literally. Made up in the 1960's.

Different from any other holiday how?

Will James

03-30-2014, 10:14 PM

Different from any other holiday how?

http://31.media.tumblr.com/71739d526338b801ab6a4194629209b4/tumblr_moii0yGk0C1sqqg60o1_250.gif

Dawg61

03-30-2014, 10:39 PM

Dawg61 may have a seizure after Tennessee hires a big name

What would be hilarious is if Tenn hired Pearl back- never happen- but hilarious

Already assuming Tennessee gets a better hire here. Gonzo got lucky with UT's run. McRae, Maymon, Barton and most likely Stokes are all gone. Gonzo will leave before they suck because they have jack shit coming back. I will have a seizure if they hire Scott Drew.

M.Fillmore

03-31-2014, 09:28 AM

I've got it on good authority from a buddy who's a Shocker alum that Marshall isn't leaving anytime soon, unless someone like Dook comes calling. His kids are in school and he wants them to finish before he leaves is what Marshall has been saying.

This is why I think we hang on to Mullen. We pay well yet, despite the meatgrinder SEC schedule, Mullen can win 7-8 games here fairly consistently and become legendary, get his 20 years in the State pension and retire with 300k for the rest of his life. Or Mullen could leave us for Georgia where they expect you to win 10-11 per year and compete for the SEC-East title every year, maybe get fired in 4 years and have to start over as an assistant coach somewhere.

Of course I know that good coaches have big egos and want to win the National Championship and that is easier at a Georgia or equivalent school. I'm thinking it will take a really big time school to get Mullen from us.

dickiedawg

03-31-2014, 09:42 AM

There's nothing wrong with nicknames. Several of the ones you listed are national nicknames - not C34's nor anyone else's on this site. I don't take offense to Brick Ray nor Freezus. I wouldn't be prone to referring to one of our own as Brick Ray, but to each his own. However, misspelling Cuonzo as Kwanza comes across as racist to me. Perhaps it's all in good fun and C34 means no ill will, but I would imagine it rubs a bunch of people the wrong way.

I also perceived it as racist. If there were a Jewish guy named Han or something and you called him Hanukkah, that too would be racist. As for Christmas, that's not exclusively a white person holiday by any stretch.

M.Fillmore

03-31-2014, 09:55 AM

I read Art Donovan's hilarious autobiography, "Fatso" about the NFL in the 1950's.

These guys called their best friends, "Dago", "Wop", "Kyke", etc. Donovan loved his "Fatso" nickname. Everyone takes this junk waaaay to seriously.

jalakin

03-31-2014, 10:26 AM

Except that there is a huge difference using those terms with friends whom you know for sure won't be offended and using them to nickname someone you don't know.

Coach34

03-31-2014, 12:10 PM

I also perceived it as racist. If there were a Jewish guy named Han or something and you called him Hanukkah, that too would be racist.

But explain to me how it is racist? It's not a derogatory name like Kyke or Dago is...

It's getting to where people dont even know what racist means anymore. In no way am I considering myself superior or him inferior due to race, nor am I saying he should be treated differently based on race.

sandwolf

03-31-2014, 12:25 PM

It's getting to where people dont even know what racist means anymore.

Agreed. If you talk about a minority, you better walk on egg shells or you can bank on somebody coming out and calling you a racist.

smootness

03-31-2014, 12:51 PM

It's akin to just calling him 'Africa'. Surely you understand that would be absurd, so calling him the name of an African holiday (yes, it was created in America but is celebrated in Africa in some places and was clearly created to celebrate African heritage) should be equally absurd.

If Martin was running around everywhere constantly talking up the great benefits of celebrating Kwanzaa, you might have a point, but we have no idea if he even celebrates it.

It isn't like calling Kristin 'Christmas' at all. Again, it's like calling Dak Prescott 'Africa' or calling someone with a lot of Native American ancestry 'headdress'. It isn't 'racist' by definition but would pretty much universally be seen as insensitive and potentially bigoted. I mean, hey, I'm just calling our black QB the name of a country where most black people originally came from. And I'm just calling an Indian something that some Indians have traditionally worn at ceremonies.

jalakin

03-31-2014, 12:53 PM

It is because you chose a nickname that is solely identifiable as African. You could have used other nicknames that rhyme with his name like Bonzo or Gonzo and it would have been fine and identified as just a nickname. Yet, you used a nickname that is racially specific. Whether intitional or not, surely you are smart enough to realize that it looks like you are not only disrespecting Cuonzo by not using his name correctly but using a "nickname" that haas heavy African implications. It makes it look like your are doing it only because he is an African American coach, which is why it appears racist. Why not just use a different nickname and avoid any chance of confusion?

Dawg61

03-31-2014, 12:56 PM

Take this shit to the private board.

DownwardDawg

03-31-2014, 12:59 PM

Good grief. The estrogen is strong in this thread. The pussification of America continues.

smootness

03-31-2014, 01:11 PM

Good grief. The estrogen is strong in this thread. The pussification of America continues.

If you don't understand how absurd it is to call a black person by the name of a black holiday solely because they are black, I can't help you.

I'll put it to you and Coach this way - would you ever, in a million years, call Cuonzo Martin 'Kwanzaa' around any black person that you aren't extremely good friends with? If so, please let me know when you plan to do this so I can videotape it.

And I am one who usually agrees that the amount of times 'racism' is thrown around or people take offense to small, innocent things is crazy. But this is ridiculous. It makes the whole board look bad.

bluelightstar

03-31-2014, 01:14 PM

Going to offer the "black perspective" and say that every time I see him called Kwanza in a thread title, I do not appreciate it.

Coach34

03-31-2014, 01:19 PM

It is because you chose a nickname that is solely identifiable as African.

so now calling a black person, who we identify as "African-Americans"- an African holiday that's name sounds almost exactly like his is racist? Ho-leee-shit people. Now then, you may view it as disrespectful- but that doesnt make it racist. Those are two separate things. His name is Cuonzo- its extremely close to Kwanza. If I ever run into a white dude named Cuonzo- I'll call him Kwanza also.

Using a nickname that is racially-specific is not being racist. ****, do I have to stop calling my friend John White- Whitey now?

1bigdawg

03-31-2014, 01:19 PM

I also perceived it as racist. If there were a Jewish guy named Han or something and you called him Hanukkah, that too would be racist. As for Christmas, that's not exclusively a white person holiday by any stretch.

Just curious. What would you consider a "white person's" holiday?

DanDority

03-31-2014, 01:22 PM

I also perceived it as racist. If there were a Jewish guy named Han or something and you called him Hanukkah, that too would be racist. As for Christmas, that's not exclusively a white person holiday by any stretch.

Just to be clear here, Jew is not a race. It's a religion!

Coach34

03-31-2014, 01:25 PM

If you don't understand how absurd it is to call a black person by the name of a black holiday solely because they are black, I can't help you.

I'll put it to you and Coach this way - would you ever, in a million years, call Cuonzo Martin 'Kwanzaa' around any black person that you aren't extremely good friends with? If so, please let me know when you plan to do this so I can videotape it.

And I am one who usually agrees that the amount of times 'racism' is thrown around or people take offense to small, innocent things is crazy. But this is ridiculous. It makes the whole board look bad.

A) I'm not calling him Kwanza because he is black- I'm calling him Kwanza because his name is Cuonzo.

b) And yes, I've done this probably 20 times already. But the black people I know dont try to take offense to everything said around them. They are good relationships and we go back and forth on lots of things.

C) And Bluelight- I hate that it bothers you buddy. I really do. But I'm not going to apologize for it. There is no ill will meant by doing it. The guy is a good coach and represents Tennessee well, as does every SEC coach except Andy Kennedy.

DanDority

03-31-2014, 01:25 PM

so now calling a black person, who we identify as "African-Americans"- an African holiday that's name sounds almost exactly like his is racist? Ho-leee-shit people. Now then, you may view it as disrespectful- but that doesnt make it racist. Those are two separate things. His name is Cuonzo- its extremely close to Kwanza. If I ever run into a white dude named Cuonzo- I'll call him Kwanza also.

Using a nickname that is racially-specific is not being racist. ****, do I have to stop calling my friend John White- Whitey now?

I'm with you Coach! Damn! I'm sick of P.C. Shit! Holy Shit where's the Tylenol!!!!!

smootness

03-31-2014, 01:42 PM

A) I'm not calling him Kwanza because he is black- I'm calling him Kwanza because his name is Cuonzo.

You specifically, in this thread, mentioned that at least part of the reason you call him this is because he's black and it's a black holiday. If you would call everyone named Cuonzo 'Kwanzaa' then fine, but you have to realize that the only context anyone has is that there is one person who is named Cuonzo, you referred to him as 'Kwanzaa', he is black, and you said part of the reason you call him that is because he's black.

You may think it's ridiculous that anyone doesn't like it, but you have to understand that it doesn't help this board. There are many people who would have an issue with that - generally speaking, it's best to just stop doing it in that case if there are no benefits of it.

OldFatDog

03-31-2014, 01:47 PM

As the father of a bi-racial child, I assure you that it is offensive. I doubt very seriously that you have referenced Coach Martin in such a manner in front of 20 African Americans.

OldFatDog

03-31-2014, 01:49 PM

You specifically, in this thread, mentioned that at least part of the reason you call him this is because he's black and it's a black holiday. If you would call everyone named Cuonzo 'Kwanzaa' then fine, but you have to realize that the only context anyone has is that there is one person who is named Cuonzo, you referred to him as 'Kwanzaa', he is black, and you said part of the reason you call him that is because he's black.

You may think it's ridiculous that anyone doesn't like it, but you have to understand that it doesn't help this board. There are many people who would have an issue with that - generally speaking, it's best to just stop doing it in that case if there are no benefits of it.

Thanks, Smootness. You have done an excellent job of making the point.

sandwolf

03-31-2014, 01:51 PM

It's akin to just calling him 'Africa'.

So if a coach is fair skinned with red hair, and some of us referred to him as 'Scotland,' I can assume that you would feel like that was also racist or offensive, correct?

Coach34

03-31-2014, 01:54 PM

As the father of a bi-racial child, I assure you that it is offensive. I doubt very seriously that you have referenced Coach Martin in such a manner in front of 20 African Americans.

I have 2 bi-racial kids myself...thanks for weighing in...and I didnt say it was 20 AA's, I said I had done it 20 times in front of some AA's I know.

OldFatDog

03-31-2014, 02:00 PM

Coach34

03-31-2014, 02:00 PM

If its one thing I know, nicknames can and will cause people to get ornery. Today people just want a reason to be pissed off about something. Whether it's calling someone Brick, Stands, Kwanza, Chief, or whatever...

Will James

03-31-2014, 02:06 PM

Is Notre Dame's mascot and nickname racist

Coach34

03-31-2014, 02:11 PM

Smootness said it perfectly. You, as usual, opt for being message board cool over doing the right thing. But, I'll give credit where credit is due, you are the king of message board cool. And that clearly trumps everything else.

No, I just dont get uptight over petty things and raise my kids the same way. Having bi-racial kids- as we both do apparently, doesnt give you a special card to be offended by things at the drop of a hat.

OldFatDog

03-31-2014, 02:14 PM

smootness

03-31-2014, 02:21 PM

No, I just dont get uptight over petty things and raise my kids the same way. Having bi-racial kids- as we both do apparently, doesnt give you a special card to be offended by things at the drop of a hat.

There's a difference between not getting uptight about it and refusing to stop doing something with no positive value after understanding that some people get upset over it.

You may consider it 'uptight' that people don't appreciate you using that nickname, but there are a lot of people who won't appreciate it and even more than that who would consider you a 'huge douche' for refusing to stop.

I agree that we should become upset at far less than we currently do as a society, but you have to understand that there is a racial history in this country, based on real events, that leads some things to legitimately touch a nerve.

You can teach your kids not to sweat small things, and I think that's great, but that is not the same as telling others they shouldn't sweat the small things and then doing the 'small things' just to anger them.

M.Fillmore

03-31-2014, 02:29 PM

So if a coach is fair skinned with red hair, and some of us referred to him as 'Scotland,' I can assume that you would feel like that was also racist or offensive, correct?

"Beam me up Scotty!"

Yeah, I know the "Scotty" reference is silly. We need some Midol for this thread though.