Archie Miller HC of the Dayton Flyers

[Dawg61]

Is about to be one of the hottest names in college basketball. 35 years old. Already made an Elite 8 and is the younger brother of Sean Miller the HC at Arizona that also just made the Elite 8. Bet he'd listen to $2 mill a year from someone. Doubt Dayton can afford that but maybe.

[msstate7]

Think he learned under Thad motta (not sure). I really like Thad so that's a good thing IMO

[CadaverDawg]

Ray is our "Assistant in Waiting"*

[smootness]

They just signed him to an extension through 2018-2019, but they didn't release any information on the financials.

I think he's probably going to be a very good coach. I really like Sean Miller, and if he is from the Thad Matta tree, that's a good sign. But at the same time, how many times have we seen someone take a mid-major (I don't consider Dayton a mid-major really, but I guess they fall near that category) on a run in the Tournament, get a better job, and then not really add up to much?

You're advocating paying a guy who just went 10-6 in the A-10 $2 million/year?

[Dawg61]

One thing else with Miller is his older brother's AD is the Ninja. Might mean nothing. Might be an in.

[CadaverDawg]

They just signed him to an extension through 2018-2019, but they didn't release any information on the financials.

I think he's probably going to be a very good coach. I really like Sean Miller, and if he is from the Thad Matta tree, that's a good sign. But at the same time, how many times have we seen someone take a mid-major (I don't consider Dayton a mid-major really, but I guess they fall near that category) on a run in the Tournament, get a better job, and then not really add up to much?

You're advocating paying a guy who just went 10-6 in the A-10 $2 million/year?

The a-10 is probably a better basketball conference than the SEC year in and year out. Can't be much worse anyway top to bottom, so I wouldn't find that a big deal. However Scott already admitted that we won't go after good head coaches, so it's a moot point. If only he was just an assistant.*

[smootness]

I didn't say the A-10 was a worse league than the SEC. I'm just saying, they went 10-6 in the A-10, then got hot coming into the Tourney.

They've played really well during the Tournament, but there have been plenty of AD's who have made hiring decisions the way Dawg61 is suggesting, and a lot of them have proven to be shortsighted.

[smootness]

Stan Heath, Darrin Horn, Tony Barbee...the list goes on.

[MarketingBully01]

Stan Heath, Darrin Horn, Tony Barbee...the list goes on.

In retrospect, Arkansas should have hired Mike Anderson out of the gate to keep them going but they had to go through two bad hires in the process to finally get back to Mike Anderson. Barbee was nothing special at UTEP and had only taken them to the first round of the NCAAs once. Horn was stupid to go to USC in the first place but didn't really build up WKU who has a basketball tradition.

I think Coach Miller at Dayton will be successful some place. Those wins over OSU and Syracuse are pretty impressive especially the Syracuse win. Once Stanford beat Kansas, that cleared a path for them making the Elite Eight.

[M.Fillmore]

Stan Heath, Darrin Horn, Tony Barbee...the list goes on.

But there are also the Bruce Pearl of UW-Green Bay.

[engie]

But there are also the Bruce Pearl of UW-Green Bay.

Bad example is bad. Pearl is more like hiring Greg Marshall than any of the ones Smoot listed -- who essentially put together one run and parlayed it...

Southern Indiana (Great Lakes Valley Conference) (1992?2001)
1992?1993 Southern Indiana 22?7 14?4 2nd NCAA D?II Regional 3rd Place
1993?1994 Southern Indiana 28?4 16?2 1st NCAA D?II Runner-up
1994?1995 Southern Indiana 29?4 15?3 3rd NCAA D?II Champions
1995?1996 Southern Indiana 25?4 18?2 1st NCAA D?II Sweet Sixteen
1996?1997 Southern Indiana 23?5 16?4 T?1st NCAA D?II First Round
1997?1998 Southern Indiana 27?6 16?4 3rd NCAA D?II Sweet Sixteen
1998?1999 Southern Indiana 26?6 18?4 2nd NCAA D?II Sweet Sixteen
1999?2000 Southern Indiana 25?6 17?3 2nd NCAA D?II Sweet Sixteen
2000?2001 Southern Indiana 26?4 18?2 1st NCAA D?II First Round
Southern Indiana: 231?46 (.834) 148?28 (.841)
Milwaukee (Horizon League) (2001?2005)
2001?2002 Milwaukee 16?13 11?5 3rd
2002?2003 Milwaukee 24?8 13?3 2nd NCAA First Round
2003?2004 Milwaukee 20?11 13?3 1st NIT First Round
2004?2005 Milwaukee 26?6 14?2 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
Milwaukee: 86?38 (.694) 51?13 (.797)
Tennessee (Southeastern Conference) (2005?2011)
2005?2006 Tennessee 22?8 12?4 1st (East) NCAA Second Round
2006?2007 Tennessee 24?11 10?6 2nd (East) NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2007?2008 Tennessee 31?5 14?2 1st (East) NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2008?2009 Tennessee 21?13 10?6 T?1st (East) NCAA First Round
2009?2010 Tennessee 28?9 11?5 3rd (East) NCAA Elite Eight
2010?2011 Tennessee 19?15 8?8 5th (East) NCAA Second Round

[esplanade91]

Stan Heath, Darrin Horn, Tony Barbee...the list goes on.

Yet there are just as many coaches who went that route that are still hot names in coaching. Naming those folks is half of the argument.

Stan Heath was a head coach for a total of one year before getting the Arkansas gig. Barbee had Moultrie and a couple others make him look good at UTEP (an AD hiring a basketball coach from C-USA in 2010 is a sin). In hindsight there were a lot of things staring these guys down and signs that they were going to flame out. Don't let some guys not living up to expectations ruin hiring mid-major coaches for you. It's still the smartest move for a "big conference" team to make, despite with Strickland says.

[Coach34]

Mark Fox
Anthony Grant (built VCU up for Shaka)
Jeff Lebo
Buzz Peterson
Dennis Felton

[engie]

Smoot's point that you are still missing -- is that there's a drastic difference between hiring a proven, battle-tested midmajor coach that has stuck around a place for while and built their own roster and program over a number of years -- and hiring the flavor of the week because of one run in March who generally did so on the backs of mostly inherited players. The first is as close as most can ever get to a sure thing, the latter is a total shit shoot. But those first coaches aren't leaving nearly as quickly as they once did -- and are waiting on perfect situations for them, making it really, really hard to pull them for programs like MSU who they don't view as superior to where they are at anymore.

Fact is -- we aren't having this conversation if Miller doesn't make AT LEAST the Sweet 16 this year. That's all I need to know about him to know he's far from a sure thing at this point. Far less of a sure thing than Pearl was at Milwaukee and Marshall was at Winthrop -- when they were already on our radar...Now -- he has some key pieces that are fairly young -- and were recruited by him. He has a chance to sustain success there for a couple more years to really build his name -- at which point he'll be able to cherrypick a job....

[MarketingBully01]

Mark Fox
Anthony Grant (built VCU up for Shaka)
Jeff Lebo
Buzz Peterson
Dennis Felton

How can you call Anthony Grant a failure when his first year he had a winning record, second year he went to the NIT then in year 3 he went to the NCAA tournament? This year he had a losing record but how could he forsee losing both Pollard and Lacey? At no stop did Grant have 13 game losing streaks though.

I want to know what you are identifying as success. To me at this point, having a 20 win season is success regardless of the big dance. I wouldn't call Mike Anderson a failure at Arkansas either. If Ray was producing even the most modicum of results (heck 15-16 wins in 2013-2014), no one would be complaining. Two 13 game losing streaks in two years as head coach is all we have to go on right now.

[Coach34]

How can you call Anthony Grant a failure when his first year he had a winning record, second year he went to the NIT then in year 3 he went to the NCAA tournament? This year he had a losing record but how could he forsee losing both Pollard and Lacey? At no stop did Grant have 13 game losing streaks though.

I want to know what you are identifying as success.

Anthony Grant inherited some solid players...and he ran off Pollard- Pollard didnt surprise him by leaving.

You think Bama fired Gottfried to bring in a guy so he could go to 1 NCAA Tourney in 5 seasons? Hell, Gottfried was 12-7 when they fired him midseason

[Coach34]

And let me add that Anthony Grant is a good basketball coach. Not sure why he isnt getting it done at Bama. As is Fox. There's something bigger going on in the South because SEC AD's arent hiring bad coach after bad coach

[Irondawg]

Go back and look at Bama's last 5 years of basketball recruiting and let me know where you think they should be. They have recruited very, very, very well for a SEC program according to the star gazers but haven't turned that into anything. And like Coach34 I think he's a decent coach and I think Fox is a good coach.

I've been saying for weeks and will continue to sing it - the southeast sucks for basketball development and most highly rated players for the area are simply not what you'd expect out of a 4-5 star. So many fundamental flaws it takes them a while to overcome and some never do.

[MarketingBully01]

And let me add that Anthony Grant is a good basketball coach. Not sure why he isnt getting it done at Bama. As is Fox. There's something bigger going on in the South because SEC AD's arent hiring bad coach after bad coach

Trevor Lacey leaving hurt them big time this year. They would have had at least a winning record with him. If they had a back court of Lacey/Releford, they would have at least made the NIT.

With that said, Battle was banking on Auburn not hiring Pearl. Now that Pearl is at Auburn, Grant's seat should be red hot. If the timing works out, I wouldn't mind grabbing Grant if things don't work out with Ray. Grant is a heck of a coach and really more responsible for building VCU then Shaka Smart was.

[Goat from MSU]

Let me add something here. A thread is started By Dawg61 ,like a dog who found a bitch in heat.smoot and engie is going to jump on it. We got Ray one more year or maybe more, that the least you can do given what happen. But here is a fact to chew on next year we will have 7 players on the roster with a combine total of 5600 min played in the SEC over that last 2 years .We should win 12 games at least in SEC play or someone's ass needs to be gone ,whether it players or coaches.

[MarketingBully01]

Let me add something here. A thread is started By Dawg61 ,like a dog who found a bitch in heat.smoot and engie is going to jump on it. We got Ray one more year or maybe more, that the least you can do given what happen. But here is a fact to chew on next year we will have 7 players on the roster with a combine total of 5600 min played in the SEC over that last 2 years .We should win 12 games at least in SEC play or someone's ass needs to be gone ,whether it players or coaches.

I LOL'ed at that one Goat. Good one!

[smootness]

Let me add something here. A thread is started By Dawg61 ,like a dog who found a bitch in heat.smoot and engie is going to jump on it.

Haha, touche.

I usually don't see who started a thread when I click on it. Once I started reading the post, though, it was pretty clear who wrote it.

Dawg61 likes to throw out a lot of random suggestions that he seems convinced are no-brainers, and at first I thought he was just crazy; now it's become clear he just doesn't like Ray and will choose absolutely anything and latch onto it to try to bash Ray or his hiring.

We have absolutely nothing to show that Archie Miller would be a better option for us than Rick Ray, and history shows that a lot of hires like that in the SEC turn out to be pure garbage.

[gtowndawg]

You think Bama fired Gottfried to bring in a guy so he could go to 1 NCAA Tourney in 5 seasons? Hell, Gottfried was 12-7 when they fired him midseason

it could very easily be replaced with:

"You think State fired Stansbury to bring in a guy so he could go to 1 NCAA Tourney in 5 seasons? Hell, Stansbury was 21-12 when they fired him at the end of the season."

It was time for Stans to go, but if Ray get's us to 1 Tourney in 5 seasons will we same the same thing?

[Coach34]

it could very easily be replaced with:

"You think State fired Stansbury to bring in a guy so he could go to 1 NCAA Tourney in 5 seasons? Hell, Stansbury was 21-12 when they fired him at the end of the season."

It was time for Stans to go, but if Ray get's us to 1 Tourney in 5 seasons will we same the same thing?

But we got rid of Stands for outside problems as much or more than we did the 2 NCAA's in his last 7 years...that wasnt the case with Gottfried

[Goat from MSU]

Smoot : You are right the hire weather good or bad is over with .The time has come to produce ,Ray has 7 players with over 5600 min. played in the SEC ,he now has something to worked with .I either praise or bitch after next season.

[Dawg61]

Just planting seeds brother. Maybe we'll need to pluck the fruit after a bit. Never know.

[smootness]

Gottfried had been to the NCAA Tournament 5 out of the last 6 full seasons he coached when they fired him.

Stans had been to the NCAA Tournament 2 of the last 7 seasons he coached when we fired him.

Alabama essentially fired Gottfried because it looked like it was going to be 2 straight years out of the tournament, but they didn't even let him finish the second year to see. We fired Stans after 3 straight.

[gtowndawg]

But we got rid of Stands for outside problems as much or more than we did the 2 NCAA's in his last 7 years...that wasnt the case with Gottfried

But I thought Gottfried did have some issues? Maybe it was personal issues though...an affair or something? Doesn't matter now I guess.

[Coach34]

and that could be true on Gottfried- he is a Cocksman. Not sure though if that was his downfall

[Dawg61]

Gottfried had been to the NCAA Tournament 5 out of the last 6 full seasons he coached when they fired him.

Stans had been to the NCAA Tournament 2 of the last 7 seasons he coached when we fired him.

Alabama essentially fired Gottfried because it looked like it was going to be 2 straight years out of the tournament, but they didn't even let him finish the second year to see. We fired Stans after 3 straight.

Gottfried was banging a sorority girl and got caught. Dick getting wet gets so many fired.

[engie]

Gottfried supposedly got caught on candid cam at the UA Golf Course -- allegedly with a student...

He got Richard Williams'ed..