Whatever happened to asking what you can do for your University?

[Real Deal]

I see all these people cutting up about their seats. Mostly people who've been giving a certain level for years, and are now getting bumped, in particular the club level. I guess I just don't understand the mentality of some of our older fans, who think they are entitled to things. They give only because of what they get in return. If you give to the Bulldog Club, it MUST only be because you want to move the athletic programs forward, NOT because you get better seats. That's a consolation, not the sole reason. I mean, what gives, do you not understand math and inflation? Not to mention just a rising cost of business? You all sure can bitch when the product isn't up to snuff, but you're not willing to "sack up and pay up", in my best cowbell9 voice.

It boils down the bottom line foundation for me, you give to help the university. Fans need to change their point of view. If it breaks the bank for you, DON'T DO IT. It is what it is. And guess what, NOBODY WILL MISS YOUR PIDDLEY MONEY! There's a reason prices are high, actually a number of reasons. One is what I mentioned about the rising cost of business. The second is demand. There are people out there willing to pay more than you, therefore they GET more than you. Simple economics. So you shouldn't be pissed off at the university. Give if you have it, and if you don't, don't.

I'm not getting to sit in as good of seats as I've sat in before either. Boo hoo. I have other shit I have to pay for. But I'll probably get the Top Dog plan and still come to games. And guess what, I still give to the BC even though they can't guarantee me my previous seats. See how that works? And I guarandamntee you all you people who are complaining about what somebody told you about not being bumped, I bet you didn't really talk to anybody. Call the AD and get some real information, not some horseshit 3rd hand internet advertisement.

Grow some nuts, in essence. That's the Real Deal. Along with Rubber Arm Mitchell.

[mstatefan91]

https://pfimg.playfire.com/_proxy/?url=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Rns-cNl1kvM%2FTeqOr3HckgI%2FAAAAAAAADEA%2Flsn6Wr00vu8% 2Fs1600%2Fbilly-dee-lol-he-mad.jpg&hmac=5a6787b6e7934793385e3c40d3df9099

[rabbitthedawg]

I see all these people cutting up about their seats. Mostly people who've been giving a certain level for years, and are now getting bumped, in particular the club level. I guess I just don't understand the mentality of some of our older fans, who think they are entitled to things. They give only because of what they get in return. If you give to the Bulldog Club, it MUST only be because you want to move the athletic programs forward, NOT because you get better seats. That's a consolation, not the sole reason. I mean, what gives, do you not understand math and inflation? Not to mention just a rising cost of business? You all sure can bitch when the product isn't up to snuff, but you're not willing to "sack up and pay up", in my best cowbell9 voice.

It boils down the bottom line foundation for me, you give to help the university. Fans need to change their point of view. If it breaks the bank for you, DON'T DO IT. It is what it is. And guess what, NOBODY WILL MISS YOUR PIDDLEY MONEY! There's a reason prices are high, actually a number of reasons. One is what I mentioned about the rising cost of business. The second is demand. There are people out there willing to pay more than you, therefore they GET more than you. Simple economics. So you shouldn't be pissed off at the university. Give if you have it, and if you don't, don't.

I'm not getting to sit in as good of seats as I've sat in before either. Boo hoo. I have other shit I have to pay for. But I'll probably get the Top Dog plan and still come to games. And guess what, I still give to the BC even though they can't guarantee me my previous seats. See how that works? And I guarandamntee you all you people who are complaining about what somebody told you about not being bumped, I bet you didn't really talk to anybody. Call the AD and get some real information, not some horseshit 3rd hand internet advertisement.

Grow some nuts, in essence. That's the Real Deal. Along with Rubber Arm Mitchell.

I understand your post and respect your opinion. I too have an opinion. I'm 67 year of age, graduated from State in 1972, my son and daughter graduated, and my wife obtained her masters at State. I have been giving to the university for over 30 years because I wanted to help some young athletic obtain an education while making me proud of the university. I've never once thought, "gee...if I give more I'll get a better seat!" My family and I had sat in not so desirable seats for years until they opened the club level. The reason I joined the club level was because my wife doesn't get around well, you can take a elevator, plus the rest rooms are clean and readily available. The AC area is wonderful for her also. Our seats were in section 117 for the first few years. As we earned more we were able to contribute more and one of the BC staff called me one day and said, "he man...a couple of seats opened up in section 120, do you want them?" Of course I jumped at it. The next year I increased our giving because I felt it was the right thing to do. When we learned the stadium would be reseated, I again increased my giving as I assumed I'd stay right were I was in section 120. Also, the price for each seat is now $1750 but we were giving substantially more than that, so we felt great about keeping our seats. Obviously that did not happen when my call came yesterday and we learned that we had to move to section 118. Not bad, but very disappointing. I started to think, "this is nuts!" I now have a son-in-law and a daughter-in-law and they are not quite in a position to purchase CL seats. So for what I'm giving, I was able to obtain five seats in the scoreboard club and all of us can sit together. That is even better, because I will probably not go to many games, which allows the kids to use those seats for themselves and their kids. For your posts, I sincerely object to what you said, however you certainly have that right. There are many of us old folks in the same frame of mind when it comes to this, but those of us baby boomers are coming to the end of our time, and it's going to be up to your generation to continue. One day you may see things as we see them.

[tcdog70]

I understand your post and respect your opinion. I too have an opinion. I'm 67 year of age, graduated from State in 1972, my son and daughter graduated, and my wife obtained her masters at State. I have been giving to the university for over 30 years because I wanted to help some young athletic obtain an education while making me proud of the university. I've never once thought, "gee...if I give more I'll get a better seat!" My family and I had sat in not so desirable seats for years until they opened the club level. The reason I joined the club level was because my wife doesn't get around well, you can take a elevator, plus the rest rooms are clean and readily available. The AC area is wonderful for her also. Our seats were in section 117 for the first few years. As we earned more we were able to contribute more and one of the BC staff called me one day and said, "he man...a couple of seats opened up in section 120, do you want them?" Of course I jumped at it. The next year I increased our giving because I felt it was the right thing to do. When we learned the stadium would be reseated, I again increased my giving as I assumed I'd stay right were I was in section 120. Also, the price for each seat is now $1750 but we were giving substantially more than that, so we felt great about keeping our seats. Obviously that did not happen when my call came yesterday and we learned that we had to move to section 118. Not bad, but very disappointing. I started to think, "this is nuts!" I now have a son-in-law and a daughter-in-law and they are not quite in a position to purchase CL seats. So for what I'm giving, I was able to obtain five seats in the scoreboard club and all of us can sit together. That is even better, because I will probably not go to many games, which allows the kids to use those seats for themselves and their kids. For your posts, I sincerely object to what you said, however you certainly have that right. There are many of us old folks in the same frame of mind when it comes to this, but those of us baby boomers are coming to the end of our time, and it's going to be up to your generation to continue. One day you may see things as we see them.

and the choir said "AMEN" preach on Brother Boomer.

[Real Deal]

So what do you disagree with me about? Do you think you should keep the same seats if there are others who are giving more than you, that want those seats?

It also sounds like the BC did you a favor at one point by moving you up. Then the reseating came and you didn't get what you wanted. What's the issue? Disappointing sure but nothing to be mad at MSU or the BC about. Look man, I don't like paying those big bucks either, especially when we didn't have to before. But it is what it is.

[FanninDawg]

and didn't you sit in those seats last year?

[rabbitthedawg]

So what do you disagree with me about? Do you think you should keep the same seats if there are others who are giving more than you, that want those seats?

It also sounds like the BC did you a favor at one point by moving you up. Then the reseating came and you didn't get what you wanted. What's the issue? Disappointing sure but nothing to be mad at MSU or the BC about.

No sir...that is not my point.

[Real Deal]

What is it then? I want to understand your point of view, outside of the financial part, which is cut and dried. Guys like you have been loyal fans for years, and I for one don't want to lose any of our fans if possible.

[coastratdog]

OK....Let me make sure I understand this. If I gave $1,000 p/year, which BTW used to be the min. for a Super Dog Plaque, for the past 25 years and have enjoyed a nice seat, without really enjoying the product on the field for about half of those years, the BC looks at it that I gave 25K. So some person comes up and pledges 25K over the next 5 years and he gets my nice seat and I get bumped to the 0 yard line I shouldn't be upset. What ever happened to the time value of money. That 25K from the old dog is really worth alot more. You do the math. Plus what ever happened to the "continuous giving" part of the seat equation? Loyalty doesn't mean squat.

[Real Deal]

That 25K that the new guy is giving is going to grow as well. The math is not on your side here. Most of this stuff is judged on an annual basis. If somebody pledges 5K per year for 5 years and you give 1K, they get priority. I mean....it's simple. Nobody likes all change. But MSU is going to generate more money. They aren't there to take care of all its alumni. The one goal we all have (at least I think, maybe you guys should re-examine your priorities) is to see MSU be the best it can be.

Bottom line, you gave to the BC and you got to enjoy nice seat as a consolation for all of those years. Now, you're on the other end of the totem pole. Just because you gave all those years does not guarantee you anything. If you want to keep it, pay the price.

[coastdoglover]

You are entirely correct and I guess the 40,000 dollars I gave means didley squat now. How many of those years was the product so bad that very few came because of that and yet we stuck with the plan. I have no problem with somebody ponying up 25000 but if folks think them jumping the lifetime club levelers is a fair deal, then they are crazy. I was in 119 and now in 124 and the sad part is I don't think anybody ever communicated that what is happening would happen. See if we lose a couple of years how many of those folks renig on their pledge. This was not well thought out and as usual MSU always finds a way to piss somebody off for being loyal.



OK....Let me make sure I understand this. If I gave $1,000 p/year, which BTW used to be the min. for a Super Dog Plaque, for the past 25 years and have enjoyed a nice seat, without really enjoying the product on the field for about half of those years, the BC looks at it that I gave 25K. So some person comes up and pledges 25K over the next 5 years and he gets my nice seat and I get bumped to the 0 yard line I shouldn't be upset. What ever happened to the time value of money. That 25K from the old dog is really worth alot more. You do the math. Plus what ever happened to the "continuous giving" part of the seat equation? Loyalty doesn't mean squat.

[rabbitthedawg]

Coastdog said it well for me! Not to worry! I'll take five seats in the end zone with the family!

[Political Hack]

They're pissing away the family armosphere at state slowly but surely in favor of a quick buck. The lack of commitment, long term strategic thinking, and loyalty towards the historical donor base is shocking to me. the bulldog club isn't that old. for our guys to be crapping on the people that started it in favor of a short term financial gain when we're winning games is not only a crappy and unethical thing to do, it's terrible management from a long term perspective. One of the first handful of people to ever contribute to the bulldog club dropped season tickets this year... Been grinding for Our State for over half a century and got told "move over" because someone donated more than him this year. They also lost at least a half million in his will already and probably more.

[Real Deal]

I'm sorry, but all of you guys' opinions seem similar and VERY entitled. That's my opinion. Just because you saw us lose doesn't make you a better fan. I mean, money talks and bullshit walks. You guys have been around awhile, you know how the real world works.

[mstatefan91]

It has to do with loyalty Real Deal. Loyalty from the fans to the University and the University being loyal to those fans. Pretty simple really

[quickstrike2]

I'm not a season ticket holder. Location basically doesn't let me along with the fact it's not in my budget. It just seems to me like from reading some posts here and on sixpack, that the TTF donation was not well explained. I think their should have been better communication so that the minimal amount of people would be pissed. Your always going to piss someone off, that's just a fact. However, with a bulldog club that just got over 10,000, i don't think we should be mass pissing off people.

[tcdog70]

They're pissing away the family armosphere at state slowly but surely in favor of a quick buck. The lack of commitment, long term strategic thinking, and loyalty towards the historical donor base is shocking to me. the bulldog club isn't that old. for our guys to be crapping on the people that started it in favor of a short term financial gain when we're winning games is not only a crappy and unethical thing to do, it's terrible management from a long term perspective. One of the first handful of people to ever contribute to the bulldog club dropped season tickets this year... Been grinding for Our State for over half a century and got told "move over" because someone donated more than him this year. They also lost at least a half million in his will already and probably more.

You might be one of my favorite posters-thanks for looking at it the way any logical person would.

[tcdog70]

I'm not a season ticket holder. Location basically doesn't let me along with the fact it's not in my budget. It just seems to me like from reading some posts here and on sixpack, that the TTF donation was not well explained. I think their should have been better communication so that the minimal amount of people would be pissed. Your always going to piss someone off, that's just a fact. However, with a bulldog club that just got over 10,000, i don't think we should be mass pissing off people.

very poor communication. but that is par for the course with the BC. Call and talk to them 4 times in a week and they might tell you four different things. Their greatest ability is How to piss off long time loyal State fans.

[Real Deal]

I don't get it though.......everyone is still getting seats. No one's getting shut out.

I guess nobody understands how important money is to this equation. Do you want to win or not?

[mstatefan91]

I don't get it though.......everyone is still getting seats. No one's getting shut out.

I guess nobody understands how important money is to this equation. Do you want to win or not?
Obviously people want to win, but they also want the university to recognize their long term commitment to the university. The university should be rewarding people for long term support and not throwing them to the goal line because a newbie contributed a little more money for a few years. This newbie who may or may not still be around when we go through a winning slump again which is bound to happen.

[Real Deal]

but they also want the university to recognize their long term commitment to the university. The university should be rewarding people for long term support and not throwing them to the goal line.....
Granted, and this is a legitimate concern. I'd like to hear ideas on how you do that. Do you penalize people who give more money? Then no one would give at all. I think you're trying to reward something that's not reward-able based on sheer numbers. Basically, lifetime givers who give small amounts don't stand out. Top givers do.


.....because a newbie contributed a little more money for a few years.This newbie who may or may not still be around when we go through a winning slump again which is bound to happen.
You may not be giving the newbies enough credit. I'm not one of them, I'm sort of in the middle, but I don't think anyone has more of a right to be a fan. We all should be ENJOYING MSU sports, not trying to own them.

It's a tough position to be in, and all I ask is that we all put MSU first instead of ourselves. Maybe it was the communication more than anything else. If that's the case, it's on the BC. But I was well aware of how the process was going down.

[mstatefan91]

They should have given long term contributions more weight in the point scale. That's how you solve that problem. Seems simple to me..

I'm going either way (student) just as I'm sure my family will go either way. It might piss off my dad for a little bit, but he'll get over it and purchase the tickets either way. I don't think this is going to create a drop off in fan attendance immediately, but I do think it makes people who have been contributing over the long term upset and maybe you lose their money. Hope there's enough newbies to take their place. A lot of constant little contributions add up when they are given every single year. Lose those and you still lose a lot of money.

[EdDawg]

Everyone should be required to tell their yearly salary and whoever donates the highest percentage gets the best seats.****

[Johnson85]

I don't get it though.......everyone is still getting seats. No one's getting shut out.

I guess nobody understands how important money is to this equation. Do you want to win or not?

The way to maximize money is not always with the quick buck. If I'm giving slowly but surely right now, I quit. I start saving up my money so that the next time something like this comes up, I'm in a position to give basically the same amount of money over a shorter period.

[coastdoglover]

Real deal, you just don't get it. Many folks are simply going to say the hell with them and pocket the money and then buy stub hub tickets to the only games they care about seeing anyway. You obviously don't give long time loyalty much credit. Those dollars do count and had provided lots of benefits to the University over the years. We screwed up the basketball arena fans by hiring an unproven coach who hasn't produced and tickets were not renewed there either. If we win 8 or more games a year from now on, there may be no significant change but with the SEC Network and fans feeling like their loyalties mean nothing, we may end up getting less over time than the 300 who promised 25,000 and may not even honor it. This reminds me of Obama care and people are now waking up and realizing we threw the baby out with the bathwater.



Granted, and this is a legitimate concern. I'd like to hear ideas on how you do that. Do you penalize people who give more money? Then no one would give at all. I think you're trying to reward something that's not reward-able based on sheer numbers. Basically, lifetime givers who give small amounts don't stand out. Top givers do.


You may not be giving the newbies enough credit. I'm not one of them, I'm sort of in the middle, but I don't think anyone has more of a right to be a fan. We all should be ENJOYING MSU sports, not trying to own them.

It's a tough position to be in, and all I ask is that we all put MSU first instead of ourselves. Maybe it was the communication more than anything else. If that's the case, it's on the BC. But I was well aware of how the process was going down.

[engie]

We screwed up the basketball arena fans by hiring an unproven coach who hasn't produced and tickets were not renewed there either.

When did this actually happen? Numbers only, please.

We generated $6.2mil in FY 2009. http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/18/news/companies/basketball_profits/
We generated $6.75mil in FY 2013. http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20140327-jziq-16kb.jpg

Obviously, Rick Ray has turned our basketball program into a nonprofit**

[Political Hack]

When did this actually happen? Numbers only, please.

We generated $6.2mil in FY 2009. http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/18/news/companies/basketball_profits/
We generated $6.75mil in FY 2013. http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20140327-jziq-16kb.jpg

Obviously, Rick Ray has turned our basketball program into a nonprofit**

engie man, you know I like you, but the BS ticket sales numbers from this year are largely irrelevant. It's about the long term financial viability of the program and you're kidding yourself if you think that's not on the decline. The Hump is DEAD. The money will follow quickly. Also, our non-arena related profits have continuously went up through TV contracts, facility donations, etc... looking just at ticket sales, it will be a dramatically different story next year.

[engie]

engie man, you know I like you, but the BS ticket sales numbers from this year are largely irrelevant.
Where did I post anything about "ticket sales numbers" or any such discussion? I didn't. Nada. In reality, we don't have those numbers.


It's about the long term financial viability of the program and you're kidding yourself if you think that's not on the decline.
Obviously not since 2009. I'm dealing in cold, hard, PUBLISHED revenue numbers. Not delving into theoreticals -- as your entire post has done...


The Hump is DEAD. The money will follow quickly.
The Hump has been dead/dying for years now. But we are obviously still waiting on people to stop buying tickets...and it AIN'T happened yet. In that way, it's identical to Dudy Noble -- which bottomed out in year 2 under Cohen and didn't fully return until years 5 and 6...


Also, our non-arena related profits have continuously went up through TV contracts, facility donations, etc...
TV contract numbers are not included in what I posted. They are separate and our accounting considers them as such.


looking just at ticket sales, it will be a dramatically different story next year.
Another theoretical -- that's based on nothing quantifiable or tangible to this point. If people bought tickets the past 2 years knowing we would be terrible -- as it appears they did by our published revenue numbers -- they are almost certainly going to keep buying them when we have a chance to be decent.

[archdog]

When did this actually happen? Numbers only, please.

We generated $6.2mil in FY 2009. http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/18/news/companies/basketball_profits/
We generated $6.75mil in FY 2013. http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20140327-jziq-16kb.jpg

Obviously, Rick Ray has turned our basketball program into a nonprofit**


I believe they should have sat the entire stadium by priority except the skyboxes. F the TTF fund assholes that jumped to the front of the line. SS screwed the families that have been giving for more than one generation. I don't care if they pledged 50 grand over 5 years. Year one they have only paid 10k. Does that trump the old timers that stand at 30-50k lifetime. Hell no. Almost everyone is going to be pissed, and mark my words the additional giving by the overwhelming majority is going to plummet next year when all these families get screwed.

Also I would like add to the original post, giving to the bulldog club is for better seats, not the student athletes. My giving was for the sole purpose of moving to the west side. If that doesn't happen, well damn. I will never make it over there, and then my ongoing giving will probably slack off considerably.

[Political Hack]

Where did I post anything about "ticket sales numbers" or any such discussion? I didn't. Nada. In reality, we don't have those numbers.


Obviously not since 2009. I'm dealing in cold, hard, PUBLISHED revenue numbers. Not delving into theoreticals -- as your entire post has done...


The Hump has been dead/dying for years now. But we are obviously still waiting on people to stop buying tickets...and it AIN'T happened yet. In that way, it's identical to Dudy Noble -- which bottomed out in year 2 under Cohen and didn't fully return until years 5 and 6...


TV contract numbers are not included in what I posted. They are separate and our accounting considers them as such.


Another theoretical -- that's based on nothing quantifiable or tangible to this point. If people bought tickets the past 2 years knowing we would be terrible -- as it appears they did by our published revenue numbers -- they are almost certainly going to keep buying them when we have a chance to be decent.

hope you had fun justifying what has happened to the Hump. It went from one of the best venues in America to an empty shell. There's nothing sadder than hearing the thud of a basketball going up and down the court repeatedly with no crowd noise. If money's your goal with the program... congrats. We had a GREAT year. So proud of our program.

LT too.

[Coach34]

I would think buying basketball tickets next season is a good idea. It's the first time under Brick Ray we have a chance to be worth a shit

[Coach34]

hope you had fun justifying what has happened to the Hump. It went from one of the best venues in America to an empty shell. .

What Engie is trying to say is that process started before Ray. Hump's been dying for about 5 years now- when we split the students up

[MarketingBully01]

What Engie is trying to say is that process started before Ray. Hump's been dying for about 5 years now- when we split the students up

I think moving the students was a terrible idea and that wasn't even Stricklin that did that. That was on Byrne's watch. Where can I find the 2013-2014 basketball numbers? The link that Engie gave was to 2009-2010 numbers. It is odd that the Hump can be basically empty and we still make a profit. Just seems very odd to me.

[engie]

hope you had fun justifying what has happened to the Hump. It went from one of the best venues in America to an empty shell. There's nothing sadder than hearing the thud of a basketball going up and down the court repeatedly with no crowd noise. If money's your goal with the program... congrats. We had a GREAT year. So proud of our program.

LT too.

I'm not the one saying "we've turned 3 revenue sports into 2" and that people either aren't buying tickets or are about to stop buying them -- so stop moving the goalposts and implying my happiness with the situation in there right now. I'm not happy with it and never said I was. I simply called a bunch of your hands -- with our actual, published revenue numbers. I must admit, the attempted refutes to those linked numbers over a variety of years have been humorous...

Basically, I'm just not going to stand idly by while people spew propaganda against Rick Ray on a situation that isn't nearly as bad as they pretend it is -- nor is the core of the problem yet really his fault. He's killed the Hump about as much as John Cohen killed Dudy Noble on the front end...if you want to have that debate...

How about we quit keeping coaches for a number of years too long so that interest can wane in or fanbase over an extended time period before the coaches finally throw the towel in and completely quit on us -- and leave our programs in shambles with fans that had already been growing weary and disinterested for YEARS beforehand. It's a perfect storm that takes YEARS to recover from -- at no actual fault of the current coach.

Of course, if you want to blame the Dudy Noble attendance problems for the first 4 years on John Cohen, I'm all ears on that one... Situations were/are virtually identical.

[Homedawg]

There is a major problem with this argument about ttf. There is assumption that all of those people had never given a dime and jumped to the front of the line. That's not anywhere near the truth. Now, based on the way it was set up could they have? Yes. But how many people who have never given jack crap and never had season tickets all the sudden wake up one day and say, "hey, I'm going to give them 25 k plus seating requirements to jump ahead of person A? Next to nobody. As far as that goes, what about the guys who have been ponying up, And giving more than the 2 previous people mentioned who got "shafted" and had worse seats than them for years, what about them? There has to be some incentive to give more and guess what? They got it.

[Political Hack]

"our basketball program sucks right now" is propaganda?

I was fine with Stans being let go. The continual effort to try to defend Ray by ripping Stans is what's confusing to me. "The Hump sucked before Ray, so it's ok" is a crap argument. You're right it's going to take a coach time to turn it around, but I've seen zero signs of it turning around in more than two seasons. Next year will tell the story and year four will either be miserable or provide a glimmer of hope that our basketball can return to greatness. I could turn the worst high school program in the country into a winner in less time than that and it's easier to do it college basketball than any other sport at any other level. You can literally sign 3 guys and have a team immediately. For whatever reason though, it's ok for the Hump to suck for the better part of a decade because we're making money.

[Real Deal]

fans feeling like their loyalties mean nothing
What SHOULD your loyalty mean? What do you actually want? MSU's loyalty to you will be better served by putting a winning product on the field, and to do that, we mean MONEY.

[LC Dawg]

I think everyone knows that you have to give some consideration to people that want to give large sums of money to the BC but I think you have to be careful. I point to Nascar as an example. When their popularity exploded they priced their core group of fans out of going to races. Tracks like Bristol had huge waiting lists for tickets. The quality of racing decreased and that, combined with a bad economy, caused race attendance to decrease dramatically. Now a lot of tracks can't half fill their seats and a lot of the people priced out earlier still have a screw them attitude toward Nascar. It's not always about immediate returns IMO.

[Vandownbytheriver]

So, in essence, we are supposed to have blind loyalty to the university and continue to give them money while they whore themselves out to the highest bidder? It's like going to a hooker and after you give her the money she drops her skirt and has a dick and asks you to turn around and bend over. Sure, someone is getting ****ed for money, but it sure as hell isn't what you paid for.

[tcdog70]

So, in essence, we are supposed to have blind loyalty to the university and continue to give them money while they whore themselves out to the highest bidder? It's like going to a hooker and after you give her the money she drops her skirt and has a dick and asks you to turn around and bend over. Sure, someone is getting ****ed for money, but it sure as hell isn't what you paid for.

Ha ha ^^^^^^^ truth

[Real Deal]

What's really hilarious is that all you that are mad are basically admitting that you didn't do your homework on this one, you just 'assumed' the BC would take care of you.

[engie]

"our basketball program sucks right now" is propaganda?
Blaming the dead atmosphere on Rick Ray RIGHT NOW is. I notice you avoided the Cohen comparison like the plague...


I was fine with Stans being let go. The continual effort to try to defend Ray by ripping Stans is what's confusing to me. "The Hump sucked before Ray, so it's ok" is a crap argument.
Well -- if you don't want the inverse argument to be used -- quit trying to pretend that Ray is the one that killed the place. It was dead before him. It's just wilted further under him. And it's time to either sprout new growth -- or get ready to go another direction.


You're right it's going to take a coach time to turn it around, but I've seen zero signs of it turning around in more than two seasons.
Because you haven't yet actually given him a chance to turn anything around. You see "zero signs" -- yet you openly acknowledge that he's managed to get us seriously in the game with Malik Newman? Explain that reasoning for me? Point is -- you don't see any signs because you don't WANT to see any signs.


Next year will tell the story and year four will either be miserable or provide a glimmer of hope that our basketball can return to greatness.
Agree.


I could turn the worst high school program in the country into a winner in less time than that and it's easier to do it college basketball than any other sport at any other level.
Strongly disagree. It's generally harder in college than it is in high school or the NBA. It's more of a "haves" vs "have nots" than any other league -- with a money discrepancy that makes it ridiculously hard to CONSISTENTLY overcome. Most of the teams "like us" that make runs do so twice every 4th or 5th year when they have a core group of battle-tested upperclassmen with underclass complements. Hell, every one of Stans' best teams fit that bill.


You can literally sign 3 guys and have a team immediately.
We don't have 3 guys? That's right -- they are just young. That's not Rick Ray's fault.

If it was "easy" -- someone other than Kentucky in the SEC would be able to do it. Yet they don't and can't just reload. Why is that? Are we supposed to ignore the statistics around the league in favor of a random theory?


For whatever reason though, it's ok for the Hump to suck for the better part of a decade because we're making money.
Who said it was "ok"? I sure didn't.

I'm just saying there is NO quick fix for it. We could hire the best available coach in the country(hell, go get the guy from Dayton)-- with John Cohen, we did make that hire -- and it didn't even REMOTELY "fix" Dudy Noble on day 1. It took 4.5 years and a ton of disagreements exactly like the one we are now having in the meantime, in fact... Hell, it took Mullen half a season and the most exciting schedule we're likely to ever see to start selling out Davis Wade late in year 1.

It's not Ray's fault that the Hump is dead at this point. But it is his job to bring it back. Either he does -- or he doesn't. But laying that issue at his feet at THIS point in time is where the agenda is exposed.

[Political Hack]

I didn't get past the Cohen comparison comment. sorry. To compare them as coaches, the programs, their experience, or even to try to compare the fan support between the two sports is a little bit of a stretch.

Cohen - proven winner as a head coach in the SEC with ties to the University. It's worth the time to see if it works.

Ray - never been a head coach and has no ties to MSU.

One of these things is not like the other.

The Hump is dead. Dudy Noble's not. Scott Field used to be dead too. maybe we should compare Ray to Croom. Maybe Ray is like Coach Ellis at USM? to compare the two is absurd IMO.

[Coach34]

Give it up Engie...It only takes 2 recruits to win in basketball and Rick Ray was left with a gold mine...You've beat the ever-loving **** out of them with logic and common sense- and it still hasnt worked. Regardless of what happens in basketball next year- it will be a fun ride

[engie]

I didn't get past the Cohen comparison comment. sorry. To compare them as coaches, the programs, their experience, or even to try to compare the fan support between the two sports is a little bit of a stretch.
You must have skipped 2009 and 2010 on message boards. You must have skipped 2005-2012 actually going to games at Dudy Noble. It bottomed out in 2010, Cohen's second year. Know who else had it bottom out in their second year?


Cohen - proven winner as a head coach in the SEC with ties to the University. It's worth the time to see if it works.
Yet no one came to games. Why? You are implying hiring a "name" coach would quickly fix for the basketball program -- when it didn't even REMOTELY happen in baseball -- the sport that it's EASIER FOR MSU to rebuild in. Even after it was rebuilt and we were winning at a fairly high level, it took people late into the 3rd REBUILT year(5th year overall) to actually start coming to games.


Ray - never been a head coach and has no ties to MSU.
So that means he should get even more patience?


One of these things is not like the other.
People can't see what they choose to ignore and twist to fit something different...


The Hump is dead. Dudy Noble's not.
Skipped a bunch of years for actually going to baseball games didn't you? Don't worry -- you weren't the only one. Year 6(4 years after being rebuilt and one year off what could be argued was our best season in program history = year 2 of a rebuild. Totally got me on that one**


Scott Field used to be dead too. maybe we should compare Ray to Croom.
Fair enough.

Was it Croom's fault the place wasn't jam packed in 05? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? And Croom sucked -- but we fired him at the right time and actually allowed Mullen to inherit a good situation. We got rid of the other 2 at the epitome of the shitshow with tremendous messes to clean up... They either do(Cohen -- year 3) or they don't(Croom -- year 5). Coaches don't get to draw their own hand from day 1. But you are a smart guy -- and you know that. Know what Croom did do? He teed Mullen's ass up for success...


Maybe Ray is like Coach Ellis at USM? to compare the two is absurd IMO.
Wellll, you got that right. Good to know you are comparing to failed USM coaches now**

Just point me to ONE coach that's fixed a similar situation in year 1 or 2. You are dead set on pushing that agenda -- yet not a single person taking your viewpoint can show me ONE frigging example of it actually happening in your current timescale.

So, in reality, you are upset that Ray thusfar hasn't proven to be the best basketball coach to run through the high major college ranks in the last dozen years or so. That's logically-founded and makes tremendous sense**