New baseball commit

[bully99]

I see on the Twitter world we got a baseball commit. Not real sure what to think of this guy. Another smallish juco middle infielder with an interesting background.

John Holland a middle infielder from chattahoochee valley juco. Started out at Florida state in 2012. Didn't play at all in 2013 because of back surgery. Transferred to chat valley juco where he is playing this year. Has decent numbers.

But the most interesting thing is that he and his brother were arrested in Omaha in 2012 when Florida state was in the college world series. Shoplifting or changing price tags on merchandise.. Mike Martin let him back on the team in 13 without scholarship but didn't play because of back surgery.

I'm just trying to figure out why in year six of the Cohen era we are having to recruit so many jucos and this guy with baggage. Another smallish infielder with back problems and arrest record.

[Political Hack]

because he knows where Omaha is?

[CadaverDawg]

I see on the Twitter world we got a baseball commit. Not real sure what to think of this guy. Another smallish juco middle infielder with an interesting background.

John Holland a middle infielder from chattahoochee valley juco. Started out at Florida state in 2012. Didn't play at all in 2013 because of back surgery. Transferred to chat valley juco where he is playing this year. Has decent numbers.

But the most interesting thing is that he and his brother were arrested in Omaha in 2012 when Florida state was in the college world series. Shoplifting or changing price tags on merchandise.. Mike Martin let him back on the team in 13 without scholarship but didn't play because of back surgery.

I'm just trying to figure out why in year six of the Cohen era we are having to recruit so many jucos and this guy with baggage. Another smallish infielder with back problems and arrest record.

You do realize that most middle infielders are "smallish", right? If it was another "smallish" Center Fielder you may have a point, but I have no issue with a "smallish" middle infielder.

As for the juco's...why not? Hell, Detz and Pirtle were two instrumental parts to our run to the national Championship series last year and they were both Jucos. This year Heck is our starting SS. I guess I just don't see what your point is. Actually I do...it is a weak attempt to find flaws in Cohen's recruiting.

[smootness]

You don't ever quit, huh?

Our recruiting is fine. We played for the national title last year. Holy crap.

[C222]

I see on the Twitter world we got a baseball commit. Not real sure what to think of this guy. Another smallish juco middle infielder with an interesting background.

John Holland a middle infielder from chattahoochee valley juco. Started out at Florida state in 2012. Didn't play at all in 2013 because of back surgery. Transferred to chat valley juco where he is playing this year. Has decent numbers.

But the most interesting thing is that he and his brother were arrested in Omaha in 2012 when Florida state was in the college world series. Shoplifting or changing price tags on merchandise.. Mike Martin let him back on the team in 13 without scholarship but didn't play because of back surgery.

I'm just trying to figure out why in year six of the Cohen era we are having to recruit so many jucos and this guy with baggage. Another smallish infielder with back problems and arrest record.

This board would be so much better without you and Dawgs61

[Todd4State]

So, you're questioning why we want a JUCO middle infielder that was good enough to start at Florida State as a freshman on one of their CWS teams? Because he's 5'10"? LOL.

Let's get some facts out here. Holland and his older brother were arrested for changing the price tag on a shirt at one of the vendor's booths at Omaha. They changed the price to reduce it by 12 bucks. This was in 2012. They plead guilty and he was kicked off the team. Very dumb on their part. Hasn't been any issues to speak of since. There is truth about the back issues as well.

Holland then went to the same JUCO that we got Cody Walker from. Cohen and the staff have a good relationship with the coaches there. If there were any issues- and there have been none in the past two years- believe me, they wouldn't take him. Don't believe me? Ask Ethan Bright, Chase Lewallen, and Jacob Shempert. If Holland has any issues at MSU, he will be gone.

As far as the back issues- I'm going to assume that those are behind him since he is currently hitting .380 with 11 stolen bases at this point.

[messageboardsuperhero]

You and I must have a very different definition of the term "decent numbers." Holland is hitting .380 with an OBP of .459, has stolen 11 bases, and has hit 10 extra base hits in 26 games- his defense has also been very good. I know that's against JUCO competition, but I doubt Pirtle, Detz, or Heck put up better numbers than that in junior college: http://www.acccathletics.com/sports/bsb/2013-14/players/johnhollandbmqv

And I'm not concerned about him changing the price of a T-shirt in Omaha with his brother two years ago. We have a very healthy environment in our locker room.

I know you don't like Cohen going after a lot of JUCOs, but that's just how he likes to recruit sometimes. You might as well get over it too, because the JUCOs he has signed usually turn out to be pretty damn good. Would I like for us to sign an Alex Bregman out of high school every year and have him show up and be a stud from day 1? Sure, but that's just not always how it works out.

ETA: Also, this guy played in over 40 games as a true freshman on an FSU team that went to Omaha- he's probably pretty damn good.

[messageboardsuperhero]

So, you're questioning why we want a JUCO middle infielder that was good enough to start at Florida State as a freshman on one of their CWS teams? Because he's 5'10"? LOL.

Let's get some facts out here. Holland and his older brother were arrested for changing the price tag on a shirt at one of the vendor's booths at Omaha. They changed the price to reduce it by 12 bucks. This was in 2012. They plead guilty and he was kicked off the team. Very dumb on their part. Hasn't been any issues to speak of since. There is truth about the back issues as well.

Holland then went to the same JUCO that we got Cody Walker from. Cohen and the staff have a good relationship with the coaches there. If there were any issues- and there have been none in the past two years- believe me, they wouldn't take him. Don't believe me? Ask Ethan Bright, Chase Lewallen, and Jacob Shempert. If Holland has any issues at MSU, he will be gone.

As far as the back issues- I'm going to assume that those are behind him since he is currently hitting .380 with 11 stolen bases at this point.

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner.

[bully99]

Why are we relying so much on jucos. Y'all don't answer the questions, just attack me.

222 you don't want 61 and me on here, because why? We ask legitimate questions and don't go all gene on here.

[CadaverDawg]

Why are we relying so much on jucos. Y'all don't answer the questions, just attack me.

222 you don't want 61 and me on here, because why? We ask legitimate questions and don't go all gene on here.

I answered your question. We are recruiting Juco's because they're talented and because it has been a recipe for a National championship appearance.

Now answer this question...why are you bitching about a coach and a sport that went to a National championship with last year?

And I'm the first to admit sunshine when it's being pumped....this ain't sunshine, it's reality. Being realistic is not a "Gene" quality.

[Todd4State]

You do realize that most middle infielders are "smallish", right? If it was another "smallish" Center Fielder you may have a point, but I have no issue with a "smallish" middle infielder.

As for the juco's...why not? Hell, Detz and Pirtle were two instrumental parts to our run to the national Championship series last year and they were both Jucos. This year Heck is our starting SS. I guess I just don't see what your point is. Actually I do...it is a weak attempt to find flaws in Cohen's recruiting.

We're going to continue to recruit the best players that we can get- whether they come from high school, JUCO, Canada, or Iran. And unless I'm mistaken, Holland is our first JUCO recruit that we have gotten for this current class. And it's obvious to me that this guy isn't your typical JUCO recruit. So much for "why are we recruiting "so many" JUCO guys".

You can add in the Vickerson brothers, Pollorena, Ammo, Slauter, Heck, Armstrong, Jarrod Parks, and Jaron Shepherd. to JUCO guys that have had success for us. But let's question what Cohen is doing there.

[Steakonastick]

Cause we only return 3 guys that are middle infielders in heck, hann, and britton.

Also goes back to DuPont in 2012 going pro out of high school.

The kid lost his scholarship because he switched stickers on tags to pay a cheaper price. He paid a 50 dollar fine to the courts for the crime. I'd say he has been punished more then any of us would have.

Yea lets no go after juco's. 80 percent of the guys Cohen brings in on scholarship from juco start. I'm glad he sees holes and plugs them.

[War Machine Dawg]

Why are we relying so much on jucos. Y'all don't answer the questions, just attack me.

222 you don't want 61 and me on here, because why? We ask legitimate questions and don't go all gene on here.

So it's legit to question us taking a JUCO who's hitting .380 with a .459 OBP, 10 XBH, and 11 SBs? A player good enough to start for another elite baseball program in FSU as a freshman? On an FSU team that went to the CWS that year? You're a trolling dumbass with an agenda.

[Todd4State]

Why are we relying so much on jucos. Y'all don't answer the questions, just attack me.

222 you don't want 61 and me on here, because why? We ask legitimate questions and don't go all gene on here.

I answered your question and didn't attack you. Because some of them are good players and can help us immediately. The point isn't to get all high school guys- the point is to get the best guys. No matter where they are from or how big, tall, or small they are.

Why do you want a bunch of guys that are 6'5"? What does that matter?

You asked why we are going after so many JUCO guys- Holland is the FIRST JUCO commit in this class. We've had to go after so many in the past because we were rebuilding. The other option is to wait around for 3-4 years while high school guys develop. And the other reason we had to go after a lot of JUCO's is to try to get our scholarship numbers straight so that we don't have big class/small class/big class/small class every other year.

The last two JUCO guys we've gotten- one was Paul Young who was drafted by the Indians and had offers from us and LSU among others and now Holland.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Why are we relying so much on jucos. Y'all don't answer the questions, just attack me.

222 you don't want 61 and me on here, because why? We ask legitimate questions and don't go all gene on here.

Nobody was attacking you.

We answered your question by saying that recruiting a couple of JUCOs per year has worked quite well for us in the recent past. Should we all of a sudden panic and turn on a coach who took us to the national title game last year because he likes to sign talented junior college players? That's just silly.

[bully99]

Every time I say something about Cohen I get attacked. Who's talking about turning on Cohen. Nobody has been more critical of our baseball program and Polk 2 than me. The whole program was mishandled for years. I've been going to State baseball games longer than most of you have been alive. So stop your hate

[smootness]

I guess I sort of attacked him. And it was totally legit. 'Why are we relying so much on jucos' is not a legitimate question - because the obvious answer is, whatever our coaches are doing, they're doing it because it makes us a really good team.

It's like Duke fans asking, 'Why is Coach K relying so much on smart kids? Huh?'

[State82]

I answered your question. We are recruiting Juco's because they're talented and because it has been a recipe for a National championship appearance.

Now answer this question...why are you bitching about a coach and a sport that went to a National championship with last year?

And I'm the first to admit sunshine when it's being pumped....this ain't sunshine, it's reality. Being realistic is not a "Gene" quality.

I've gotta ask this same thing. Bully99, I'm not one to go around bashing folks around here for their opinions and I won't. Everyone has one, as we all know. Most are neither right or wrong, for the most part. They are what they are. Opinions. It's a sports message board for goodness sakes and a lot of people here, at times, need to get over themselves. However, I really don't get your M.O. Our baseball program ventured into uncharted waters last year because of John Cohen and his staff. If you don't like him personally, for whatever reason, that's fine I guess. But why the constant undermining? Just curious.

[dawgoneyall]

:)

[C222]

So it's legit to question us taking a JUCO who's hitting .380 with a .459 OBP, 10 XBH, and 11 SBs? A player good enough to start for another elite baseball program in FSU as a freshman? On an FSU team that went to the CWS that year? You're a trolling dumbass with an agenda.

Exactly.

[Todd4State]

Every time I say something about Cohen I get attacked. Who's talking about turning on Cohen. Nobody has been more critical of our baseball program and Polk 2 than me. The whole program was mishandled for years. I've been going to State baseball games longer than most of you have been alive. So stop your hate

Stop asking ridiculous questions and trying to find negatives and you'll probably stopped getting "attacked". We answered your questions and now you are going to whine about it and then use the fact that you've watched a lot of baseball to back up your position?

You're basically not only criticizing a guy that has as others said led us to a NC game, but his recruiting which has produced two first round draft picks (neither of which was a JUCO), some All-Americans such as Ross Mitchell. Holder has become our team save leader and has been as good as anyone could want. And the team he took to Omaha was completely made up of his recruits.

Relief pitching- Holder (save king, best part of the video board this season), Lindgren will get drafted, Girodo, Caleb Reed, Ross until last week.

Starting pitching- Stratton was a first round pick, Graveman, Pollo, Devin Jones and Evan Mitchell both were drafted. Brandon Woodruff was pitching with a broken arm and is recovering- and likely will turn it around sooner than later. Jesse McCord is a recruit that was a MaxPreps AA last year in Alabama, and Aaron Dominguez is off to a good start in California.

C- Gavin Collins with Chase Vallot possibly coming next year.

1B- Rea has improved every year, replaced Collins who was a Polk recruit.

2B- Pirtle has been good, replaced Vickerson. We've been JUCO heavy here, but productive.

3B- Parks hit .400 most of his senior year, Daryl Norris didn't pan out because of injuries- still drafted as a pitcher, and now Britton looks like he might be figuring things out. Humprheys will be good.

SS- Ogden was decent, Frazier was drafted by the Pirates after three years, and Heck will bridge the gap until we get Luke Alexander in- a guy who made Team USA in junior high.

OF- Hunter Renfroe was a first round pick, CT was a freshman AA that has battled injuries and is leading out team in hitting currently, Demarcus has improved every year, Vickerson is good, Cody Brown is only a freshman and he's good enough to start some, Armstrong is better than he was last year. Brownlee wasn't a Cohen recruit, but he was solid when healthy and improved.

DH- Detz was good last year, struggled this year but is playing better at the moment.

I haven't even mentioned Cole Gordon, Dale Burdick, Joey Swinarski, Brent Rooker, AUSTIN RILEY, or Jake Mangum who are all going to be good players for us.


If all of that hurts your feelings, I'm sorry.

[Todd4State]

Oh-and I forgot Daniel Garner who is smoking the ball, Dakota Hudson who is 6'5" and throws in the mid-upper 90's, Austin Sexton, and Vance Tatum.

[I seen it dawg]

So it's legit to question us taking a JUCO who's hitting .380 with a .459 OBP, 10 XBH, and 11 SBs? A player good enough to start for another elite baseball program in FSU as a freshman? On an FSU team that went to the CWS that year? You're a trolling dumbass with an agenda.

No truer words have been spoken

[I seen it dawg]

And I can't resist...bully99 you are a damn idiot.

[Coach34]

Why are we relying so much on jucos. Y'all don't answer the questions, just attack me.

What is wrong with jucos?

[missouridawg]

I see on the Twitter world we got a baseball commit. Not real sure what to think of this guy. Another smallish juco middle infielder with an interesting background.

John Holland a middle infielder from chattahoochee valley juco. Started out at Florida state in 2012. Didn't play at all in 2013 because of back surgery. Transferred to chat valley juco where he is playing this year. Has decent numbers.

But the most interesting thing is that he and his brother were arrested in Omaha in 2012 when Florida state was in the college world series. Shoplifting or changing price tags on merchandise.. Mike Martin let him back on the team in 13 without scholarship but didn't play because of back surgery.

I'm just trying to figure out why in year six of the Cohen era we are having to recruit so many jucos and this guy with baggage. Another smallish infielder with back problems and arrest record.

Those smallish middle infielders and juco types that lead us to 2nd in the nation last year are really bad for our program.

[Dawg61]

This board would be so much better without you and Dawgs61

http://7mabutaca.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/you-talking-to-me.jpg

[Todd4State]

And I can't resist...bully99 you are a damn idiot.

I have a feeling that if our class was 15 Under Armour All-Americans (Baseball equivalent of McDonald's AA in basketball) who all pulled their name out of the MLB draft and guaranteed that they would come to MSU, he would still question Cohen's recruiting.

[Dawg61]

I have a feeling that if our class was 15 Under Armour All-Americans (Baseball equivalent of McDonald's AA in basketball) who all pulled their name out of the MLB draft and guaranteed that they would come to MSU, he would still question Cohen's recruiting.

bully99 is Ron Polk?

[Todd4State]

bully99 is Ron Polk?

I'm pretty sure that Ron Polk doesn't own a computer.

I do think that he is a Polk apologist even though he denies it:

1. "Older" MSU fan who has watched a lot of baseball.

2. Accused Cohen of throwing players under the bus- until I posted the video of the interview clearly showing Cohen not throwing player under the bus.

3. Questions Cohen's recruiting and tactics despite objective evidence of success on the field. It's one thing to question why Hann is in the lineup on a given day. That's reasonable and logical. It's a totally different thing to question and assert that we aren't recruiting well or developing players when we are playing for championships with said players. And then whine about being attacked when people respond to him in a logical well thought out manner? No agenda there.**


The fact of the matter is if you look at Cohen's career at MSU including his first two seasons which were losing seasons, his career is very comparable and arguably better thus far than Ron Polk's first five. And I'm not talking about Polk II either. Really the difference between Cohen's first five in terms of accomplishments and Polk's first five is Cohen has a NC round appearance and Polk had a regular season SEC title.

[sbcmortgageman]

You do realize that most middle infielders are "smallish", right? If it was another "smallish" Center Fielder you may have a point, but I have no issue with a "smallish" middle infielder.

As for the juco's...why not? Hell, Detz and Pirtle were two instrumental parts to our run to the national Championship series last year and they were both Jucos. This year Heck is our starting SS. I guess I just don't see what your point is. Actually I do...it is a weak attempt to find flaws in Cohen's recruiting.

Don't forget about trey porter. He was a JUCO guy as well.

[MarketingBully01]

Every time I say something about Cohen I get attacked. Who's talking about turning on Cohen. Nobody has been more critical of our baseball program and Polk 2 than me. The whole program was mishandled for years. I've been going to State baseball games longer than most of you have been alive. So stop your hate

Recruiting IMO is Cohen's strength. We have a ton of talent on this team. There are some things that you can legitimately question about Cohen which is 23 different lineups in 23 games but questioning the talent on this team and Cohen's recruiting really isn't one of them. Shit, LSU and other CWS teams have JUCOs on their teams. JUCO recruiting if done well can really help a team more then anything in every sport whether it's football, basketball or even baseball.

[Martianlander]

The only question mark I've got is the shoplifting charges. Maybe it's behind him but I still like good character players. I'm old school with that.

[Drugdog]

This board would be so much better without you and Dawgs61

I am so glad I am not the only one who feels like this. Enough of this crap. Head to 6 pak. This is an adult board.
Nice post and thanks c222.

[RossDawg82]

There is no issue with bringing in JUCO players. I played JUCO and that is where you find a lot of leadership. I think his question is why do we need to bring in JUCO players if we are recruiting so well. The answer very well might be that the freshman we have are not ready to step into the leadership position on the squad. Or because he has the talent to do what Cohen wants him to do. There are a million reasons why you would recruit the JUCO ranks, just like we do in Football. Im not going to call anyone names or say anyone is a "Troll" over this question.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

Maybe Cohen just likes to have immediate contributors.

His JUCO recruiting has been outstanding.

[smootness]

There is no issue with bringing in JUCO players. I played JUCO and that is where you find a lot of leadership. I think his question is why do we need to bring in JUCO players if we are recruiting so well. The answer very well might be that the freshman we have are not ready to step into the leadership position on the squad. Or because he has the talent to do what Cohen wants him to do. There are a million reasons why you would recruit the JUCO ranks, just like we do in Football. Im not going to call anyone names or say anyone is a "Troll" over this question.

It isn't just this question - bully99 is constantly trying to criticize Cohen's recruiting, and he is now using a guy who started for a CWS FSU team as a freshman to further that agenda, which is insane.

I get it if someone just looks at the surface and says, 'Hmm, if we're recruiting JUCOs maybe we have holes on our roster'. But once you realize who the JUCOs are that we've brought in, there should be no more questions. Sometimes it isn't because you didn't recruit the HS ranks well or because you have too many young guys; sometimes it's because the JUCO is just that good. There is an obvious explanation to his question, and he has been given that explanation over and over, yet he continues to try to use it as a criticism...despite the fact that whatever Cohen is doing, it just took us to the brink of a national title.

It's ridiculous. And he is a troll.

[MarketingBully01]

I don't understand people wanting to exclude other people. I am glad C34 is much more tolerant then you (Drugdog) or C222. Above everything else, we are bulldog fans and obviously we came over here because we didn't want to co-mingle with the a-hole Rebel fans. Everyone has different opinions. No sense in telling people they should leave a board because you don't agree with them.

[Sandman14]

This board would be so much better without you and Dawgs61

douchely comment. I disagree with bully99s post, strongly. but this board is out of control with certain folks immediately making personal attacks in every thread because they don't have the balls or intelligence to debate. I'm a big fan of taking these folks apart. It's fun for me, so it's not problematic to me. but in general, it's a real issue that not a positive attribute.

[Sandman14]

I am so glad I am not the only one who feels like this. Enough of this crap. Head to 6 pak. This is an adult board.
Nice post and thanks c222.

it is confirmed, I'm on a real short leash

[Coach34]

It looks to me like you do have some old school "Polk guys" that think jucos are bad for your program because that is what Polk thought.

Cohen values juco guys and likes the fact they are game ready for D-1 most of the time.

Different philosophies- and both have worked for each coach

[MarketingBully01]

It looks to me like you do have some old school "Polk guys" that think jucos are bad for your program because that is what Polk thought.

Cohen values juco guys and likes the fact they are game ready for D-1 most of the time.

Different philosophies- and both have worked for each coach

I agree C34. Both philosophies have worked equally well for both coaches. Nothing wrong with either approach. I still stand by my opinion though that overall JUCOs can help all of our programs in all sports if you can get a good mix of them and high school kids as well. Of course, that is just my opinion. :)

[Drugdog]

I don't understand people wanting to exclude other people. I am glad C34 is much more tolerant then you (Drugdog) or C222. Above everything else, we are bulldog fans and obviously we came over here because we didn't want to co-mingle with the a-hole Rebel fans. Everyone has different opinions. No sense in telling people they should leave a board because you don't agree with them.

Hey I love to read other opinions, however the Constant insulting, degrading , and general bitching about Everything MSU related not only gets old, but is not true. Not every thread needs a bitching comment by our regular complainers. I love reading the insight from the posters of this board. Truly Great info that you can't get anywhere else.
A minor few take All of our programs down the gutter.

[Saltydog]

Both of these guys were studs. Heck, we could've used Shempert this year.

Well, found this so it answered some of my question. Shempert tearing it up in JC.

[Homedawg]

Shempert hit 205 w 2 hr last year.

[MarketingBully01]

Hey I love to read other opinions, however the Constant insulting, degrading , and general bitching about Everything MSU related not only gets old, but is not true. Not every thread needs a bitching comment by our regular complainers. I love reading the insight from the posters of this board. Truly Great info that you can't get anywhere else.
A minor few take All of our programs down the gutter.

Fair enough. My general bitching has been regarding basketball because that is the sport I love the most. I loved going to the SEC tourney and had gone to 14 straight before we just stopped going. Haven't been to the SEC tourney since the 2011-2012 basketball season and miss it. Don't get to many games because I am out of state.

I have stated a few negatives regarding the baseball team but that might have been because I had set too high of expectations for this season. I think losing Renfroe and Frasier have hurt us more then first thought. I think we will be a regional team easily and have a chance at hosting if we can do well in the conference which we have an easier trek then we did last year.

Our football team should be awesome this year. I think all of our fans can get behind that. :)

[Political Hack]

baseball recruiting is more of a gamble than football or basketball in terms of who will show up and how well they'll adjust to D1 ball. Using Jucos is a pretty smart way to reset the balance in the classes and keep the program from suffering huge peaks and valleys of talent as classes move through the system. it used the same way in football and I can't for the life of me understand why it's not used more in basketball.

[bully99]

I have no problem recruiting jucos to fill gaps here and there, but a prominent program should be able to recruit the best high school players on a yearly basis and not have to rely so much on players who stay one or two years. We should be able six years into a tenure to be getting the top high school players.

Polk did recruit jucos early in his career at State. Buck Showalter, Howie mccann, Jack lazorko, but realized you can't build a program long term on guys only playing one or two years. My opinion and I'm sticking with it.

[Sandman14]

it is confirmed, I'm on a real short leash

hey everyone coach 34 has noted he is about to ban me again because I point out the logical fallacies in his arguments and ask him not to personally attack me or others.

do it if you want, coach. just make it a closed board. chill speech. pump your sunshine to your merry gang. dominate those who are less intelligent than you, and keep out all those who are more intelligent than you. sounds like a good plan. similar to communism but hey, it's your world.

I've done nothing wrong. You just don't like my opinions.

[MadisonDawg]

I played with Shempert on the JR Sunbelt team, he would be a cancer in any dugout he's in. He can hit a damn baseball though.

[Todd4State]

I have no problem recruiting jucos to fill gaps here and there, but a prominent program should be able to recruit the best high school players on a yearly basis and not have to rely so much on players who stay one or two years. We should be able six years into a tenure to be getting the top high school players.

Polk did recruit jucos early in his career at State. Buck Showalter, Howie mccann, Jack lazorko, but realized you can't build a program long term on guys only playing one or two years. My opinion and I'm sticking with it.

Cal State Fullerton disagrees with you- they built a NC program with a lot of JUCO guys from California. LSU currently has nine JUCO players on their team including a couple of starters. This after multiple NC's. Most everyone in the country uses JUCO players. We would be completely foolish to not use JUCO players. Especially with the ties that Jake Wells and Cohen have to JUCO baseball.

Polk never stopped recruiting JUCO players- Thigpen, and then later on in his career Andy Rice, Tyler Moore, etc.

What do Albert Pujols, Roy Oswalt, and Bryce Harper all have in common? All played JUCO baseball. Last year at least two JUCO baseball players were drafted in the first round by MLB including Tim Anderson from Mississippi. There is a lot of talent there.

Your theory about us having to rely "so much" on JUCO players is way off base. If you look in this thread- I mentioned a list of players that Cohen has recruited that are mostly high school players. It very clearly shows that we have relied less and less on JUCO's as time has gone on. But if you think that we should drop JUCO recruiting because we are a prominent program- arrogance like that is what ruined Polk in the first place and cost us many very good players over the years. Not to mention kept us from reaching even greater prominence.

[MetEdDawg]

That coached at CV the last few years. Says he's probably the best JUCO in the state of AL this year. Kid started in the CWS as a freshman. Kid definitely has the talent so it sounds like we've got ourselves a pretty talented kid that should help immediately.

ETA: He had a back injury and got his scholarship removed from what I understand.

[CadaverDawg]

Cal State Fullerton disagrees with you- they built a NC program with a lot of JUCO guys from California. LSU currently has nine JUCO players on their team including a couple of starters. This after multiple NC's. Most everyone in the country uses JUCO players. We would be completely foolish to not use JUCO players. Especially with the ties that Jake Wells and Cohen have to JUCO baseball.

Polk never stopped recruiting JUCO players- Thigpen, and then later on in his career Andy Rice, Tyler Moore, etc.

What do Albert Pujols, Roy Oswalt, and Bryce Harper all have in common? All played JUCO baseball. Last year at least two JUCO baseball players were drafted in the first round by MLB including Tim Anderson from Mississippi. There is a lot of talent there.

Your theory about us having to rely "so much" on JUCO players is way off base. If you look in this thread- I mentioned a list of players that Cohen has recruited that are mostly high school players. It very clearly shows that we have relied less and less on JUCO's as time has gone on. But if you think that we should drop JUCO recruiting because we are a prominent program- arrogance like that is what ruined Polk in the first place and cost us many very good players over the years. Not to mention kept us from reaching even greater prominence.

This post is strong.

Not to mention, bully99 keeps saying we don't need to rely on guys "that can only play 2 years". Another ridiculous statement, because if a guy like Humphreys starts balling like we think he will during his Sophomore year, he will basically only play 2 years before being drafted anyway. So the best Highschool players will only give you 3 years max if they turn out to be true studs...so bully's point remains seeded in agenda IMO.

And I actually liked bully's posts when he first started posting, but there is nothing that backs up his current, and now continuous, negative stance...zip.

[I seen it dawg]

I have no problem recruiting jucos to fill gaps here and there, but a prominent program should be able to recruit the best high school players on a yearly basis and not have to rely so much on players who stay one or two years. We should be able six years into a tenure to be getting the top high school players.

Polk did recruit jucos early in his career at State. Buck Showalter, Howie mccann, Jack lazorko, but realized you can't build a program long term on guys only playing one or two years. My opinion and I'm sticking with it.

Where do we not recruit the top high school guys?

[messageboardsuperhero]

This post is strong.

Not to mention, bully99 keeps saying we don't need to rely on guys "that can only play 2 years". Another ridiculous statement, because if a guy like Humphreys starts balling like we think he will during his Sophomore year, he will basically only play 2 years before being drafted anyway. So the best Highschool players will only give you 3 years max if they turn out to be true studs...so bully's point remains seeded in agenda IMO.

And I actually liked bully's posts when he first started posting, but there is nothing that backs up his current, and now continuous, negative stance...zip.

Exactly.

We basically only got two years each out of Renfroe and Frazier being starters, and one of those years from Renfroe wasn't exactly great. You can almost get the exact same career production from two years with a good JUCO as you can from three years with a stud high school player who needs an adjustment year.

ETA: Bottom line, just find good baseball players- no matter where they come from.

[State82]

This post is strong.

Not to mention, bully99 keeps saying we don't need to rely on guys "that can only play 2 years". Another ridiculous statement, because if a guy like Humphreys starts balling like we think he will during his Sophomore year, he will basically only play 2 years before being drafted anyway. So the best Highschool players will only give you 3 years max if they turn out to be true studs...so bully's point remains seeded in agenda IMO.

And I actually liked bully's posts when he first started posting, but there is nothing that backs up his current, and now continuous, negative stance...zip.

Very well put.

[engie]

This post is strong.

Not to mention, bully99 keeps saying we don't need to rely on guys "that can only play 2 years". Another ridiculous statement, because if a guy like Humphreys starts balling like we think he will during his Sophomore year, he will basically only play 2 years before being drafted anyway. So the best Highschool players will only give you 3 years max if they turn out to be true studs...so bully's point remains seeded in agenda IMO.

And I actually liked bully's posts when he first started posting, but there is nothing that backs up his current, and now continuous, negative stance...zip.

I think it commends us on going after the EXACT right JUCO players...for us to get every one of them thusfar for at least 2 years, when they could declare after 1 -- or sign pro out of JUCO and leave us holding the bag.

[tcdog70]

JUCO players are a must if we are going to be an elite program. How about we just let JC sign the best players he can.I trust Him, you should also.