This idea that our basketball players got worse since last year...

[thf24]

edit: looks like my images aren't showing up on mobile. Links provided where each is supposed to be.

First off, I will concede that it's DISPUTABLE (at worst) whether our basketball team as a whole was better or worse than last year. Despite four more wins, we played a much easier schedule, and the losing streak in conference play was a sore spot. However, I've also seen a few anti-Ray posters claiming that our players have regressed individually under Ray's instruction (in one case the words "all players" were used), and I felt the need to debunk this garbage.

To begin, here's a comparison of some individual stats between Ray's two seasons for each player who played in both. Sorry for the crappy formatting, I didn't have very long to do this.

http://www.elitedawgs.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=466&d=1395170250

http://www.elitedawgs.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=466&d=1395170250

As you can see, each player improved significantly in at least one area relevant to their position. No one got worse except arguably Borchert, who is graduating as everyone knows, and Cunningham, who obviously would never have played significant minutes in a better situation. FTF did regress slightly in several areas, but I'll get back to him in a minute.

For those of you interested in such things, here are the non-percentage stats adjusted to 40 minutes to account for difference between minutes per game between the two seasons.

http://www.elitedawgs.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=467&d=1395170511

http://www.elitedawgs.com/album.php?albumid=33&attachmentid=467

And finally, here are FTF's numbers from the final six games following his "attitude adjustment," compared to last season.

http://www.elitedawgs.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=468&d=1395170709

http://www.elitedawgs.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=468&d=1395170709

I know those two sample sizes don't make for an extremely relevant statistical comparison, but it does finally give us an idea of FTF's potential. He does still need to figure out his free-throw shooting, but if he can continue next year where he left off, he'll be the most improved of all and one of our best players.

So, despite the disappointing season, our guys improved by various degrees and definitely didn't get worse. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do next year with some more help in key areas.

[engie]

Excellent post

[maroonmania]

Good post, I am wondering how Fred Thomas mysteriously lost the ability to shoot free throws though since last year?

[Dawg61]

If you spend minimum of 2 hours a day playing basketball you will improve. Especially at the ages of 18-22. They could not have a coach at all and still improve. Your very nicely displayed stats mean jack shit. Here's my not impressed face.

[Coach34]

If you spend minimum of 2 hours a day playing basketball you will improve. Especially at the ages of 18-22. They could not have a coach at all and still improve. Your very nicely displayed stats mean jack shit. Here's my not impressed face.

Ok- but they still improved. So all the bullshit about us getting worse- just that- bullshit

[Dawg61]

Ok- but they still improved. So all the bullshit about us getting worse- just that- bullshit

Did we improve though? We went from second to last to dead last. We lost to the BIG12 winless TCU team without their best player in the HUMP. Simply having extra bodies and them naturally improving like they would just playing hoops in their backyard for two hours a day does not spell improvement in my book. This isn't Jackson St. basketball. Ray doesn't get awarded 8 years to turn the ship around. Auburn just hired BRUCE PEARL. ****ING AUBURN. The WORST program besides USCe in the last 15 years of SEC basketball. We hired an assistant from Clemson. The same school that was begging to hire the coach we FIRED. Shit has gotten turned upside down for MSU in basketball.

[Political Hack]

we're getting better at being irrelevant. excellent.

[Political Hack]

although I do appreciate the effort. from thf and the players.

[MadDawg]

Have we improved? Sure. But improving your grade from a 40 last year to a 50 this year is still an 'F'. And we are all hoping for an F- next year.

[Sandman14]

It's not bullshit. It's a fact that Fred Thomas regressed. I don't watch anymore, so I don't know from personal knowledge, but it's been talked about in the media and the numbers provided in the original post back it up.

It's also a fact that the team finished last in a terrible conference this year and sucked just as bad or worse than the year before.

If you want kudos for only having one of your second year starters regress while Sword, Ware, and the rest of the bad news bears pretty much stagnated on the last place team in the SEC, go for it.

You really gotta work hard to find the silver lining here. "Ray is an asset because he signs players for the football team instead of the basketball team." "Ray intends to sign Newman." "Only 1 of Ray's best players regressed." "It's only 'fair' that Ray get's a 10-year plan." "You are only down on Ray because of his race and not because we are horrible at basketball." The hits just keep on coming.

Here is how a real basketball coach develops his players:

Florida Gators 2012-13

GAME STATISTICS
Player GP MIN PPG RPG APG SPG BPG TPG FG% FT% 3P%
Erik Murphy 32 26.7 12.6 5.5 1.4 0.6 0.7 1.4 .528 .771 .456
Kenny Boynton 33 32.1 12.3 3.1 2.9 0.9 0.1 1.3 .395 .835 .325
Mike Rosario 32 29.7 12.3 2.5 2.2 0.9 0.0 1.8 .444 .853 .357
Patric Young 33 26.5 10.3 6.2 0.8 0.9 1.7 1.5 .603 .496 .000
Scottie Wilbekin 31 32.1 9.0 3.0 5.0 1.5 0.1 2.0 .461 .689 .371
Casey Prather 25 16.2 6.1 3.7 0.9 0.8 0.5 1.0 .620 .552 .333
Michael Frazier II 32 18.3 6.0 3.3 1.0 0.5 0.0 0.8 .462 .821 .485
Will Yeguete 27 20.7 5.4 5.8 1.0 1.0 0.3 1.4 .531 .588 .250
Braxton Ogbueze 21 5.0 0.8 0.6 0.3 0.2 0.0 0.5 .316 .364 .250
DeVon Walker 23 4.2 0.7 0.7 0.1 0.1 0.2 0.1 .143 .786 .000
Jacob Kurtz 18 2.1 0.7 0.4 0.1 0.1 0.0 0.0 .625 .500 1.000
Dillon Graham 21 3.7 0.3 0.2 0.2 0.0 0.0 0.2 .176 .000 .000
Totals 36 -- 72 35 15 7 3 11 .481 .683 .379



Florida Gators 2013-14

GAME STATISTICS
Player GP MIN PPG RPG APG SPG BPG TPG FG% FT% 3P%
Casey Prather 32 28.2 14.2 5.0 1.7 1.0 0.5 2.2 .612 .675 .400
Scottie Wilbekin 29 33.8 13.0 2.6 3.8 1.7 0.0 1.8 .396 .726 .400
Michael Frazier II 34 30.3 12.9 3.5 1.1 1.2 0.2 1.2 .467 .836 .455
Patric Young 34 26.0 11.1 6.1 0.9 0.6 0.9 1.2 .551 .597 .000
Dorian Finney-Smith 32 25.6 8.9 6.8 2.1 0.4 0.5 1.8 .375 .620 .316
Kasey Hill 27 22.5 5.5 1.8 3.1 1.2 0.1 1.6 .405 .625 .143
Will Yeguete 34 23.6 4.9 5.3 1.2 1.0 0.1 1.2 .420 .654 .222
DeVon Walker 31 12.8 2.7 1.3 0.6 0.4 0.4 0.6 .325 .667 .317
Jacob Kurtz 25 8.8 1.7 1.5 0.3 0.2 0.0 0.3 .630 .500 .000
Eli Carter 7 7.6 0.4 0.7 0.3 0.0 0.0 0.4 .071 .000 .111
Billy Donovan 16 2.8 0.3 0.3 0.2 0.1 0.0 0.2 .000 1.000 .000
Dillon Graham 1 8.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 .000 .000 .000
Lexx Edwards 11 1.4 0.0 0.3 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.1 .000 .000 .000

[Coach34]

Did we improve though? We went from second to last to dead last. We lost to the BIG12 winless TCU team without their best player in the HUMP. Simply having extra bodies and them naturally improving like they would just playing hoops in their backyard for two hours a day does not spell improvement in my book. This isn't Jackson St. basketball. Ray doesn't get awarded 8 years to turn the ship around. Auburn just hired BRUCE PEARL. ****ING AUBURN. The WORST program besides USCe in the last 15 years of SEC basketball. We hired an assistant from Clemson. The same school that was begging to hire the coach we FIRED. Shit has gotten turned upside down for MSU in basketball.

there is your problem. You are comparing this team to ghosts. We made a simple comparision of our players this past season to 2013's team. And by all accounts- yes they improved.

We didnt get by 30-40 points.
We lost 9 games by 20+ in 2013- only 2 in 2014.

We improved.

Was it enough? No. And that is what we are waiting to see in 2015. How much more will we improve?

[Homedawg]

Fred Thomas regressed? Have you been watching? How can anyone say that. Maybe I need to read it again surely not.

[thf24]

It's not bullshit. It's a fact that Fred Thomas regressed. I don't watch anymore, so I don't know from personal knowledge, but it's been talked about in the media and the numbers provided in the original post back it up.

Did you honestly just say that a player increasing his 3 point shooting for the season by almost 10 percentage points is "regressing?" Surely I misunderstood that.

[Coach34]

Did you honestly just say that a player increasing his 3 point shooting for the season by almost 10 percentage points is "regressing?" Surely I misunderstood that.

Fred also improved his overall shooting by 5.4%

[Sandman14]

I repeat: I have not been watching. I won't watch. Not until we put a team out there that is competitive.

Fred Thomas regressed in almost every category, and the only reason he got better at three's is that he shot 20% last year.

Attention everyone. We have new items to add to the "Rick 'the assistant' Ray silver lining list." "We didnt get [bludgeoned] by 30-40 points." "We lost 9 games by 20+ in 2013- only 2 in 2014."

Add this to "Ray is an asset because he signs players for the football team instead of the basketball team." "Ray intends to sign Newman." "Only 1 of Ray's best players regressed." "It's only 'fair' that Ray get's a 10-year plan." "You are only down on Ray because of his race and not because we are horrible at basketball."

It continues!

[engie]

Jesus Christ this board has become an unreadable haven for idiots.

[TheRef]

Who the 17 said that Ray should get a 10-year plan and was serious about it? Please refer me to them so I can smack the taste out of their mouth.

[Dawg61]

Fred Thomas regressed? Have you been watching? How can anyone say that. Maybe I need to read it again surely not.

In a 33 game season Fred Thomas had about 4 good games and he sure disappeared in the last half of the last one so let's not go give him the most improved player award just yet.

[Dawg61]

Jesus Christ this board has become an unreadable haven for idiots.

You saying you're having trouble reading the board or just the idiots? Maybe you meant that this board has become unreadable because it's a haven filled with idiots. Not sure.

[quickstrike2]

Next year the only stats i care about is W's and L's. I'm anxious and excited to see what happens, hoping for a solid year. There shouldn't be any hiding after next year, either we get better or we don't/stay the same.

[maroonmania]

One thing people forget about last year is we STARTED 3-0 in the SEC while we still had Jalen Steele popping 3 pointers from the perimeter. We lost him to injury later and only won one more SEC game after that in the regular season and then one tournament game. We never had a go to outside shooter this year during SEC play.

[dawgs]

i'd like to see a comparison of sec games only. that's the closest thing we'll get to a fair comparison. given how awful our non-conference schedule was, it's impossible to gauge how much a lesser non-conference schedule this year influenced the overall numbers compared to a better non-conference schedule last year. the sec was pretty similar this year and last year in quality, and obviously the unbalance schedule influenced things a bit, but i think that's the best comparison for judging improvement.

also, losing less blowouts because we played one of the easiest schedules in recent memory for a major conference program isn't really a good point to bring up.

[thf24]

i'd like to see a comparison of sec games only.

I'll work on that. I'm curious myself.

[Homedawg]

In a 33 game season Fred Thomas had about 4 good games and he sure disappeared in the last half of the last one so let's not go give him the most improved player award just yet.

Big difference from calling him an all-star, which I didn't, and saying he regressed, which he did. But thanks for chiming in

[Dawg61]

Big difference from calling him an all-star, which I didn't, and saying he regressed, which he did. But thanks for chiming in

Guess I missed your sarcasm. My B.

[BiscuitEater]

Team seemed to 'regress' & coaching didn't impress. (sorry for the pun but there were zero adjustments in the second half of SECT OM game)

Slipped from 4 SEC win to a 3 SEC win season to end in dead last place. A lone single SEC road win in two years.

[Drugdog]

🏀😂

[mic]

I repeat: I have not been watching. I won't watch. Not until we put a team out there that is competitive.

Fred Thomas regressed in almost every category, and the only reason he got better at three's is that he shot 20% last year.

Attention everyone. We have new items to add to the "Rick 'the assistant' Ray silver lining list." "We didnt get [bludgeoned] by 30-40 points." "We lost 9 games by 20+ in 2013- only 2 in 2014."

Add this to "Ray is an asset because he signs players for the football team instead of the basketball team." "Ray intends to sign Newman." "Only 1 of Ray's best players regressed." "It's only 'fair' that Ray get's a 10-year plan." "You are only down on Ray because of his race and not because we are horrible at basketball."

It continues!

Well if you havent been watching and wont watch. Then you don't need to be posting comments about our basketball program good or bad..

[mic]

Did we improve though? We went from second to last to dead last. We lost to the BIG12 winless TCU team without their best player in the HUMP. Simply having extra bodies and them naturally improving like they would just playing hoops in their backyard for two hours a day does not spell improvement in my book. This isn't Jackson St. basketball. Ray doesn't get awarded 8 years to turn the ship around. Auburn just hired BRUCE PEARL. ****ING AUBURN. The WORST program besides USCe in the last 15 years of SEC basketball. We hired an assistant from Clemson. The same school that was begging to hire the coach we FIRED. Shit has gotten turned upside down for MSU in basketball.

Im just curious what's the highest level of basketball you have played.?? Since you seem to think its so easy to just roll up on a hoop for 2 hours a day and make huge improvements...

[Dawg61]

Im just curious what's the highest level of basketball you have played.?? Since you seem to think its so easy to just roll up on a hoop for 2 hours a day and make huge improvements...

I'm Steph Curry's shooting coach. Didn't you know?

[Coach34]

SEC-only stats:

Scoring:

2013- 58.9
2014- 64.7

Scoring D:

2013- 74.2
2014- 75.3 (new foul rules implemented)

FT %:

2013- 65.8%
2014- 68.0%

Shooting %:

2013- 39.3%
2014- 42.2 %

3 pt shooting%:

2013- 28.4%
2014- 29.7%

3 pt D%:

2013- 34.2%
2014- 32.7%

Rebounds:

2013- 30.5
2014- 31.4

Assists:

2013- 10.0
2014- 11.7

Turnovers:

2013- 17.0
2014- 13.6

**edited to add***- and these stats dont include the SEC Tourney games that we played decent in as well.

[Brad Stevens]

Im just curious what's the highest level of basketball you have played.?? Since you seem to think its so easy to just roll up on a hoop for 2 hours a day and make huge improvements...

I have tried asking him that question before. He deflects. That should speak for itself.

[smootness]

Well if you havent been watching and wont watch. Then you don't need to be posting comments about our basketball program good or bad..

Seriously. If someone posts in a thread saying, 'I haven't watched anything, but what I'm telling you happened is a fact because I heard someone else say it,' and that thread doesn't immediately get blown up, this board has problems.

[Coach34]

Seriously. If someone posts in a thread saying, 'I haven't watched anything, but what I'm telling you happened is a fact because I heard someone else say it,' and that thread doesn't immediately get blown up, this board has problems.

You dont have to blow the thread up to recognize an idiot. And we have a few going full damn retard on basketball.

They are too stupid to realize how much a full bench would improve this team next year
They are too stupid to realize how much having your players a year older will improve the basketball team
They are too stupid to realize that you will struggle playing Soph's and Freshmen- that wont be the case next year
They are too stupid to realize it was a blessing in disguise that Daniel and Endo having a year to workout and practice with the team will help team chemistry next year

They are just ****ing stupid and I cant wait for basketball season to come back to blow their ass up. I was right about Crooms, I was right about Stands lack of discipline killing him off, I was right about Cohen when alot of people doubted, I was right about Mullen winning those last 3 games- and I will most likely be right about Ray winning 18-20 games next year

And if we get Newman...I will unleash the wrath when that team is killing it with him and a bunch of Jr and Sr's

[smootness]

That didn't read right, I didn't mean someone should have locked the thread. I just meant that if someone makes a comment that dumb and others actually feed off or don't realize how dumb it is, then there are people posting here with real issues and it makes the entire board hard to enjoy.

I fully agree with you, btw. If we get Newman, there are some people who won't ever be able to post here again it will become so unbearable for them.

[Coach34]

That didn't read right, I didn't mean someone should have locked the thread. I just meant that if someone makes a comment that dumb and others actually feed off or don't realize how dumb it is, then there are people posting here with real issues and it makes the entire board hard to enjoy.

I fully agree with you, btw. If we get Newman, there are some people who won't ever be able to post here again it will become so unbearable for them.

Well, you just have people here that still love Stands
You have people that love basketball and are frustrated right now
You have people with no foresight into what it takes to rebuild
You have people with agendas.
And you also have quite a few that are willing to stay open-minded on Ray until next season- but they dont want to get into some big shit show.

Ray has had his time rebuild and we have new blood coming and some already on campus ready to go in November. It's time to make it happen this winter

[smootness]

GAME STATISTICS
Player GP MIN PPG RPG APG SPG BPG TPG FG% FT% 3P%
Patric Young 33 26.5 10.3 6.2 0.8 0.9 1.7 1.5 .603 .496 .000
Scottie Wilbekin 31 32.1 9.0 3.0 5.0 1.5 0.1 2.0 .461 .689 .371
Casey Prather 25 16.2 6.1 3.7 0.9 0.8 0.5 1.0 .620 .552 .333
Michael Frazier II 32 18.3 6.0 3.3 1.0 0.5 0.0 0.8 .462 .821 .485
Will Yeguete 27 20.7 5.4 5.8 1.0 1.0 0.3 1.4 .531 .588 .250

Florida Gators 2013-14

GAME STATISTICS
Player GP MIN PPG RPG APG SPG BPG TPG FG% FT% 3P%
Casey Prather 32 28.2 14.2 5.0 1.7 1.0 0.5 2.2 .612 .675 .400
Scottie Wilbekin 29 33.8 13.0 2.6 3.8 1.7 0.0 1.8 .396 .726 .400
Michael Frazier II 34 30.3 12.9 3.5 1.1 1.2 0.2 1.2 .467 .836 .455
Patric Young 34 26.0 11.1 6.1 0.9 0.6 0.9 1.2 .551 .597 .000
Will Yeguete 34 23.6 4.9 5.3 1.2 1.0 0.1 1.2 .420 .654 .222

So these are the guys we can really get a grasp of who have a large enough sample both years.

So Casey Prather's FG% dropped. Scottie Wilbekin's FG% dropped. Michael Frazier's FG% bump was negligible and his 3-point % dropped. Patric Young's FG% dropped. And Will Yeguete's FG% dropped.

Did you even look at the #s before you posted them? Good grief.

And yes, their FT%s and 3-point %s mostly improved, but according to Dawg61 that should be expected if you shoot around every once in a while.

[thf24]

And you also have quite a few that are willing to stay open-minded on Ray until next season- but they dont want to get into some big shit show.

What's been truly frustrating to me is that the shit show has been brought to us for making that suggestion.


Did you even look at the #s before you posted them? Good grief.

This is the guy who doesn't need to watch us to know exactly how bad we are, and he's expected to look at his own numbers? Let's be reasonable now.

[HailState39110]

What about total FG% defense? I saw you included 3 pt % D but not total FG% D . Didn't know if we regressed in this area or you mistakenly left it off or if you purposely left it off (speaking of agendas)

Look, I think we made a lot of strides offensively this year and improvement but might have regressed a little defensively. You already show we allowed more points this year (PPG) and if I had to guess our FG% d was worse also. This year i felt like we gave up more easy buckets

[dawgs]

That didn't read right, I didn't mean someone should have locked the thread. I just meant that if someone makes a comment that dumb and others actually feed off or don't realize how dumb it is, then there are people posting here with real issues and it makes the entire board hard to enjoy.

I fully agree with you, btw. If we get Newman, there are some people who won't ever be able to post here again it will become so unbearable for them.

well i for one would prefer to get newman and actually win than be internet right. yall can holler "i told you so" and i'll be enjoying the Ws.

[RougeDawg]

Ok- but they still improved. So all the bullshit about us getting worse- just that- bullshit

Excellent post, considering these are basically the only warm bodies we had available to put in most games. That alone will boost most stat categories, because they had to be on the court. I see multiple red categories and green categories with miniscule improvement. I would sure ****ing hope the players improved 1 PPG and 0.08 Reb per game. Jesus, Players should improve in most areas of basketball from year to year, with experience. You and your apologists are bullshit. If they didn't improve in PPG, after losing Steele, we would have been getting blown out by 40+. Damn some of you will try to make a mountain out of a mole hill, on the ever so slightest increase in a state, to create the perception that someone might see Ray as the answer. NO HE'S ****ING NOT! He better get a transfer or two worth a ****, or next year will be this year with single digit losses. But hey, we will be improving.

[HailState39110]

I found our FG % defense last year vs this year . It was .439 last year and .452 this year . We also allowed more PPG this year so, yes ,that tells me our defense regressed and was worse this year

[Sandman14]

Excellent post, considering these are basically the only warm bodies we had available to put in most games. That alone will boost most stat categories, because they had to be on the court. I see multiple red categories and green categories with miniscule improvement. I would sure ****ing hope the players improved 1 PPG and 0.08 Reb per game. Jesus, Players should improve in most areas of basketball from year to year, with experience. You and your apologists are bullshit. If they didn't improve in PPG, after losing Steele, we would have been getting blown out by 40+. Damn some of you will try to make a mountain out of a mole hill, on the ever so slightest increase in a state, to create the perception that someone might see Ray as the answer. NO HE'S ****ING NOT! He better get a transfer or two worth a ****, or next year will be this year with single digit losses. But hey, we will be improving.

homerun

[Sandman14]

Seriously. If someone posts in a thread saying, 'I haven't watched anything, but what I'm telling you happened is a fact because I heard someone else say it,' and that thread doesn't immediately get blown up, this board has problems.

it's a fact because it's a fact. not because of any characteristic of one who notes the fact. if you don't believe fred thomas regressed, then you yourself didn't watch this season nor have you viewed the statistics. go ahead. make your case that fred thomas got better this season. stop all the bullshit grab-assing about getting blown up. be a man.

[Sandman14]

You dont have to blow the thread up to recognize an idiot. And we have a few going full damn retard on basketball.

They are too stupid to realize how much a full bench would improve this team next year
They are too stupid to realize how much having your players a year older will improve the basketball team
They are too stupid to realize that you will struggle playing Soph's and Freshmen- that wont be the case next year
They are too stupid to realize it was a blessing in disguise that Daniel and Endo having a year to workout and practice with the team will help team chemistry next year

They are just ****ing stupid and I cant wait for basketball season to come back to blow their ass up. I was right about Crooms, I was right about Stands lack of discipline killing him off, I was right about Cohen when alot of people doubted, I was right about Mullen winning those last 3 games- and I will most likely be right about Ray winning 18-20 games next year

And if we get Newman...I will unleash the wrath when that team is killing it with him and a bunch of Jr and Sr's

there we go with the personal attacks. and the "if we get Newman" argument. and "cohen and ray are long lost twin brothers despite having no similarities" argument. why don't you whip out the "ray recruits football players" argument? how about "folks are only down on ray because he's black" argument? What about the "if it takes ray 10 seasons to win 20 games, it's only 'fair' to give him that chance" argument? I'd say the idiotic posts are pretty evident, but I don't call you an idiot for your shortsighted, personally motivated stance on Ray's inability to recruit, coach, or win basketball games.

[Coach34]

I found our FG % defense last year vs this year . It was .439 last year and .452 this year . We also allowed more PPG this year so, yes ,that tells me our defense regressed and was worse this year

New fouls rules cause us some foul problems- especially early- and the lack of depth was a killer. Our defense was a little worse because we would have Roq having to play minutes at the 5 spot and we couldnt defend that way. That really shows up in the fact that our 3-pt D improved this year. We just didnt have the bodies inside

[Sandman14]

well i for one would prefer to get newman and actually win than be internet right. yall can holler "i told you so" and i'll be enjoying the Ws.

BAM! exactly. as it stands, ray has never signed anyone who was worth a damn and has managed to put together what is probably one of the worst 2-year runs in the history of MSU basketball in the modern era.

[Coach34]

there we go with the personal attacks.

I didnt mention one name

[Sandman14]

New fouls rules cause us some foul problems- especially early- and the lack of depth was a killer. Our defense was a little worse because we would have Roq having to play minutes at the 5 spot and we couldnt defend that way. That really shows up in the fact that our 3-pt D improved this year. We just didnt have the bodies inside

this post is confusing. are you agreeing or disagreeing? on the one hand you blame new rules for defensive regression. on the other, you note that it is because we don't have athletic capability (signaling a failure to recruit athletes into the program). don't forget, most teams these days play young players. the days of starting 3 fifth-year seniors are over. there is no excuse in college basketball past year 1. especially in the SEC, you should win 20 games. I promise you Bruce Pearl will find a way to get Auburn into the ncaa tournament by year 2...much less sitting around with 3 conference wins. but that's because he's a real basketball coach.

[Sandman14]

I didnt mention one name

profound

[Coach34]

don't forget, most teams these days play young players. the days of starting 3 fifth-year seniors are over. there is no excuse in college basketball past year 1. especially in the SEC, you should win 20 games. I promise you Bruce Pearl will find a way to get Auburn into the ncaa tournament by year 2...much less sitting around with 3 conference wins. but that's because he's a real basketball coach.

A) Florida- who starts 3 Sr's- went 18-0 in the league. Donovan has been quoted as saying having Sr's in today's basketball is a huge advantage

B) Only 5 of 14 SEC teams won 20 games- and that's after the SEC Tourney. It's a new day in the SEC now that you no longer have divisions.

C) Bruce Pearl is not taking over All-SEC players like he did at Tenn. It's going to take him some time.

[Sandman14]

A) Florida- who starts 3 Sr's- went 18-0 in the league. Donovan has been quoted as saying having Sr's in today's basketball is a huge advantage

B) Only 5 of 14 SEC teams won 20 games- and that's after the SEC Tourney. It's a new day in the SEC now that you no longer have divisions.

C) Bruce Pearl is not taking over All-SEC players like he did at Tenn. It's going to take him some time.

A - Florida is the best team in the nation. I'm talking about winning 5 or 6 games in the SEC and recruiting some decent players.

B - only 3 SEC teams made the NCAA tournament, and one was a play-in. if anything is new, it's that the entire league sucks worse than it did when Stands got us 20+ wins nearly every year.

C - Bruce Pearl thinks this is hilarious. He is licking his chops about trouncing on teams like Bama, MSU, and rest of the putrid SEC. If by "some time," you mean by year 2, then I agree.

[Coach34]

it's a fact because it's a fact. not because of any characteristic of one who notes the fact. if you don't believe fred thomas regressed, then you yourself didn't watch this season nor have you viewed the statistics. go ahead. make your case that fred thomas got better this season. stop all the bullshit grab-assing about getting blown up. be a man.

But we clearly and distinctly showed you that Fred's shooting improved. He is also considered to be a very good defender.

So even though his scoring was down slightly- he was a better player in 2014. He improved. He did not regress.

[Coach34]

A - Florida is the best team in the nation. I'm talking about winning 5 or 6 games in the SEC and recruiting some decent players.

B - only 3 SEC teams made the NCAA tournament, and one was a play-in. if anything is new, it's that the entire league sucks worse than it did when Stands got us 20+ wins nearly every year.

C - Bruce Pearl thinks this is hilarious. He is licking his chops about trouncing on teams like Bama, MSU, and rest of the putrid SEC. If by "some time," you mean by year 2, then I agree.

ok- you really are a moron. I know what Florida is. My response was to your "the days of starting 3 fifth-year seniors are over." It's hilarious because that is exactly what Florida does. And that is what we will do in 2016- except it will be 4 Sr's- not 3.

The SEC is the exact same as when Stands was coaching.

2009- 3 NCAA Tourney teams- and only got a 3rd because we won the SEC Tourney....the SEC has been a 3-4 bid league for awhile now

[smootness]

it's a fact because it's a fact. not because of any characteristic of one who notes the fact. if you don't believe fred thomas regressed, then you yourself didn't watch this season nor have you viewed the statistics.

So you admit you didn't watch, then claim that someone who takes issue with what you claim is a 'fact' for the precise reason that you didn't watch must not have watched? You gotta be kidding me.

This is the most absurd argument I think I've ever read.

I don't ever go outside, btw, but the sky is red. If you think it's not red, you must not go outside.

[engie]

So you admit you didn't watch, then claim that someone who takes issue with what you claim is a 'fact' for the precise reason that you didn't watch must not have watched? You gotta be kidding me.

This is the most absurd argument I think I've ever read.

I don't ever go outside, btw, but the sky is red. If you think it's not red, you must not go outside.

It's about time for a housecleaning around here.

No one is that dumb. It's obvious trolling. And it's destroying this site.

[RougeDawg]

So let me get this straight. A person who makes $25/hr is the same person who makes $25/hr, if he works 30 hours or 40 hours, the total end result is more simply due to the fact he worked more. To the Ray apologists, this is much improvement. He didn't improve one ****ing thing except the amount of time he was allowed to work. Has very little to do with his improvement as a worker, and more to do with others not being there to fill the void of work and him being forced to put in more time. Putting in more time at work, one would expect to see increases in take home pay.

Just apply this to basketball. Less players should have boosted everyone's stats, but I don't see any monumental jumps except FTF's 3PT%. It's also hard to go much lower than 20%, most coaches would ban them from shooting 3's at that point. But hey, we hustle. All 8 of them!!!!

[dawgs]

ok- you really are a moron. I know what Florida is. My response was to your "the days of starting 3 fifth-year seniors are over." It's hilarious because that is exactly what Florida does. And that is what we will do in 2016- except it will be 4 Sr's- not 3.


i think my biggest fear is that our seniors might only peak at NIT level though. imo we'll have to make a substantial jump to at least NCAA bubble team next year for me to feel like the 2015-2016 season will be a good season with a decent shot at a decent NCAA seed. MAYBE we pull an indiana 2010-2011 to 2011-2012 jump, but that's definitely not the norm.

[mic]

I don't need stats to prove to me that players got better.
Eye test.. I watched almost all of our games. Yes we had some games where we didn't play good. Its basketball even the great ones have bad games.

No one can tell me that that Bloodman didn't get better from this last year to this year.. I thought he had a pretty good year
Fred improved his game. He shot the ball better and was Probably our best on the ball defender at his position. He guarded the best teams #2 or #3 every game.
Chicken's outside game improved. He is only a sophomore and if his outside gets better each year he will be in the conversation for All Sec soon.
No one can tell me that Roc didn't improve his ENTIRE game this year
When Ware gets another big body inside with him he has chance to be very good. He has very good foot work and moves for a big guy. You can tell he had a good high school coach (Greg Carter)
IJ will only get better. He has a very nice shot handles the ball very well for a true frosh..

And finally if you don't think RR is a better X and O coach than Stans. You are 100% wrong. Go ask anyone who knows anything about basketball if you cant tell for yourself...

But I agree if he cant get it done by getting players in here soon , he will be gone in a few years and I have no problem with that. Difference is if that happens in 2 years or even next year , the program and the job will be in better shape and much more appealing for the next head guy. We just have to make the right hire...

[BiscuitEater]

The SEC is the exact same as when Stands was coaching.

2009- 3 NCAA Tourney teams- and only got a 3rd because we won the SEC Tourney....the SEC has been a 3-4 bid league for awhile now

With the addition of A&M and Missou, the SEC has sent more teams to the NCAA than ANY OTHER Conference except the ACC.

With the addition of A&M and Missou, THIS year is the fewest number of SEC teams (three) in the NCAAT since BEFORE Stanbury was the coach at State.

In '09 ... MSU, UT, LSU, plus A&M and Missou were in the NCAAT.

[MadDawg]

With the addition of A&M and Missou, the SEC has sent more teams to the NCAA than ANY OTHER Conference except the ACC.

With the addition of A&M and Missou, THIS year is the fewest number of SEC teams (three) in the NCAAT since BEFORE Stanbury was the coach at State.

In '09 ... MSU, UT, LSU, plus A&M and Missou were in the NCAAT.

This simply can't be true. Coach just said this the EXACT SAME SEC as when Stans was coaching. Not much wiggle room in that statement.

[Sandman14]

ok- you really are a moron. I know what Florida is. My response was to your "the days of starting 3 fifth-year seniors are over." It's hilarious because that is exactly what Florida does. And that is what we will do in 2016- except it will be 4 Sr's- not 3.

The SEC is the exact same as when Stands was coaching.

2009- 3 NCAA Tourney teams- and only got a 3rd because we won the SEC Tourney....the SEC has been a 3-4 bid league for awhile now

I'm a moron! coach is at it again!

[Sandman14]

It's about time for a housecleaning around here.

No one is that dumb. It's obvious trolling. And it's destroying this site.

what's destroying this site, if anything, is your personal attacks, coach's personal attacks, and other cronies of you guys who do the same thing. probably the reality is that you guys are just frustrated because others are outclassing you with logic, so you resort to calls for bannings, personal attacks, or both.

[Coach34]

This simply can't be true.

It's not

Missouri and A&M were not in the SEC in 2009- so he was incorrect about that

The Big East sent 8 to the Tourney last year, the Big Ten 7...The SEC hasnt sent more than 5 since 2008, and only did that once

His post was idiotic

[Coach34]

what's destroying this site, if anything, is your personal attacks, coach's personal attacks, and other cronies of you guys who do the same thing. probably the reality is that you guys are just frustrated because others are outclassing you with logic, so you resort to calls for bannings, personal attacks, or both.

I just logically banned you for 10 days. Why? Because there is no logic to your posts- and you keep arguing when proven wrong factually.

[dawgs]

With the addition of A&M and Missou, the SEC has sent more teams to the NCAA than ANY OTHER Conference except the ACC.

With the addition of A&M and Missou, THIS year is the fewest number of SEC teams (three) in the NCAAT since BEFORE Stanbury was the coach at State.

In '09 ... MSU, UT, LSU, plus A&M and Missou were in the NCAAT.

wait, am i understanding your post to mean you are claiming a&m's and mizzou's pre-SEC NCAA tourney births for the SEC even though they made the tourney not playing in the SEC those seasons?

[MadDawg]

wait, am i understanding your post to mean you are claiming a&m's and mizzou's pre-SEC NCAA tourney births for the SEC even though they made the tourney not playing in the SEC those seasons?

I believe the point of this is that it's impossible to compare a 12-team conference to a 14-team conference historically.

[dawgs]

I believe the point of this is that it's impossible to compare a 12-team conference to a 14-team conference historically.

i believe it's fair to say the SEC as a whole has been a pretty poor major basketball conference for the last half dozen years or so. 12 or 14 teams doesn't make a damn bit of difference.

[Coach34]

I believe the point of this is that it's impossible to compare a 12-team conference to a 14-team conference historically.

then he needs a better point...nobody ever had a problem comparing a 12 team SEC to the 10 team SEC

[drunkernhelldawg]

there is your problem. You are comparing this team to ghosts. We made a simple comparision of our players this past season to 2013's team. And by all accounts- yes they improved.

We didnt get by 30-40 points.
We lost 9 games by 20+ in 2013- only 2 in 2014.

We improved.

Was it enough? No. And that is what we are waiting to see in 2015. How much more will we improve?

We were definitely more competitive. Got a long way to go but no doubt we were closer to success than last season. I'm surprised there's even an argument, but I'm not about to read this thread. .