Should we change our lineup a little bit?

[Todd4State]

Sure, this is maybe odd after a sweep. But, if we can get a little bit better, why not?

1. CT- He's hot now. I think he profiles more as a lead off hitter. He is up to .296, and despite struggling for much of the year, he has almost the same OBP as Adam Frazier. He's also 7-7 in SB attempts, making him to me, a better base runner superficially than Frazier. I'd like to see our lead off guy steal a little bit more. CT is hitting .290 in SEC play right now.

2. Adam Frazier- He simply is not as patient as he was last year. He does, however handle the bat very well and 21 K's to 18 walks is not what I would like to see out of a lead off hitter. But he does make contact much of the time. To me, that would be ideal for hitting and running and things like that vs. Detz who walks more and takes more pitches. Also, Frazier and CT at the top makes us a little bit faster than with Frazier and Detz. Hitting in front of Renfroe should help him out as well as far as seeing pitches to hit. He's better than the .257 that he is hitting in SEC play right now.

3. Hunter Renfroe. Our best all around player. Nothing more to say really. That's why I put the period after his name.

4. Wes Rea- Rea appears to be more healthy, and now is up to .290 with 5 home runs- 4 of which are in SEC play.

5. Alex Detz- I would move him to DH. His defense has been a liability. He only has four errors thanks to our generous official scorer. His average has gone down recently, and his SEC average is .216 which is really bad for a number two hitter- perhaps because he is focusing on defense, but he still gets on base. His OBP is second to Renfroe. He's not particularly a base stealer, so he's not going to be limited by Rea in front of him.

6. Nick Flair- Release the Kraken! In limited action, he is hitting over .500. I find it hard to believe he is worse defensively than what we are putting out at third base right now. He may not be better, but he probably would be an upgrade from a power standpoint and a hitting standpoint over Armstrong and Porter, both of whom I think may serve us better off the bench. I think he just needs a chance to show it.

7. Jacob Robson- It's time to give him the left field job. His numbers aren't quite as good as Henderson's- but he's getting closer everyday. He's up to .247 now. He also has grounded into 0 double plays and he has been far better in the clutch. He also has been a better base- stealer than Henderson with his 2 in 3 attempts vs. Henderson's 2 in 5 attempts. In SEC play, his numbers are far superior to Henderson's- Robson is hitting .294 to Henderson's .170

8. Ammo/Slauter- It sounds like a couple of G. I. Joe action figures. They're basically the same player to me. I bet breaking his hand and then catching Holder has improved Slauter's kung fu grip. Any offense we get from them is a bonus.

9. Brett Pirtle- Switch hitter who is hitting over .300 with speed, and actually has a higher OBP than Frazier or CT at the moment. He has struck out 18 times to 16 walks, but he leads the team in getting HBP with 14. He's also 8-8 in SB attempts. In fact, his numbers are so good, I wouldn't even mind dropping Frazier down here and letting Pirtle hit lead off or second. He is hitting .345 with an OBP of .444 which is second to Renfroe's.

[War Machine Dawg]

I kinda like your idea. But if it were me:

1. CT - CF - Seems to have regained his groove recently. Very good speed. Definitely could be a table setter.

2. Pirtle - 2B - Switch hits. Gets on base. Team leader in HBP. Very good speed. Our hottest hitter right now. Gets the benefit of protection from Renfroe

3. Renfroe - RF - Duh

4. Rea - 1B - Finally healthy. Swinging it well lately and showing some of the power we all know he has. RBI producer.

5. Porter/Flair/Slauter - DH - Love the power Porter brings. He should get more chances against RHP. Flair can rake and has power. Why not give him a shot? Slauter has swung a decent stick so far. Wouldn't mind giving him an occasional DH chance.

6. Detz/Flair - 3B - Detz has been a little shaky on D, but the sumbitch gets on base. Problem is, I hate wasting my DH on an OBP singles hitter. I want pop at DH. That means you live with Detz at 3B in my world. Since we're apparently dreaming, wouldn't mind seeing Flair at least get the chance to prove he's defensively unplayable right now.

7. Robson - LF - After all the fall hype, he hasn't done much. But he can't be any worse than Henderstrong has been in LF. I go with his upside over their shitastic play.

8. Ammo - C - Better than Slauter defensively. Has really had a hot bat for a while. Offense is still a surprising bonus from him, but I take his arm behind the plate with Slauter injured.

9. Frazier - SS - Plate discipline has regressed a little this season. Gives us a very solid OBP, leadoff/2-hole type guy at the bottom of the lineup. Can set the table to turn the lineup over. Could also use Detz at 9 for that reason.

[Will James]

There is no way on God's green earth that I am batting Pirtle 9th, or Frazier for that matter. I'll have my lineup later in the morning once I get back to my spreadsheet.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

I don't think moving Frazier down to 9th would help with making him want to come back for his senior season.

[msstate7]

I don't think moving Frazier down to 9th would help with making him want to come back for his senior season.

What about 3rd and put hunter cleanup?

[Duke Silver]

Pirtle 2b
Frazier SS
Renfroe RF
Detz 3b
Rea 1b
Bradford CF
Ammo/Slauter C
Porter/Norris/Flair DH
Robson/Henderson LF

I think moving frazier to 2 hole behind a high OBP guy would be great

[Will James]

The Lineup

1. Detz - Mr. OBP. "But look at his SEC numbers" Alright, I see he's got a very low .257 BABIP in SEC play. Going with a stat I just came up with OBP-BABIP, Detz (.094) is currently 2nd behind Renfroe (.126) in SEC play and leads the team overall on the year (.107).

2. Pirtle - Guy is flat out getting it done at the plate, 3rd on the team in OBP-BABIP (.082).

3. Frazier - LOW SEC BABIP (.283), he's going to come around. His BB% has been cut in half from last season though. His overall BABIP is also down from an absurd .408 last year. The real Adam Frazier is somewhere in the middle of this and last season.

4. Renfroe - The scary thing about Hunter is that his BABIP is actually lower than a lot of guys in SEC play. You may have noticed him slacking off a little recently (Coach34) but his SEC OPB-BABIP far and away leads the team at .126. Monster power threat and will be assured plenty of baserunners with those 3 in front of him.

5. Rea - 2nd on the team in SLG.

6. Bradford - Finally seems to be back to were we know he can be. Normal BABIP, however he has the lowest BB% on the team. He was low last year as well, with a 2012 8% BB rate. This year he's at 7%. That's what it seems what we will get out of CT. This is a perfect spot in the lineup for a hitter like Bradford who is going to put the ball in play.

7. Porter - Low overall BABIP, absurdly low SEC BABIP. His SEC OBP-BABIP is tied with Detz at .094. Get him in this lineup.

8. Slauter - Gotta have him in the lineup. We've missed his bat.

9. Whoever's playing LF. Robson seems to have the vs RHP on lock and provided a great spark from this otherwise hole in our lineup all year. Henderson has a criminally low .222 BABIP in SEC play. He's gotten some bad breaks on the year. In SEC play him and Robson both have a high .082 OBP-BABIP. I don't have the numbers of vsRHP and vsLHP for these guys but I can see a platoon continuing for Robson and Henderson.

That's it that's the lineup guys.

Detz
Pirtle
Frazier
Renfroe
Rea
Bradford
Porter
Slauter
LF

[msstate7]

The Lineup

1. Detz - Mr. OBP. "But look at his SEC numbers" Alright, I see he's got a very low .257 BABIP in SEC play. Going with a stat I just came up with OBP-BABIP, Detz (.094) is currently 2nd behind Renfroe (.126) in SEC play and leads the team overall on the year (.107).

2. Pirtle - Guy is flat out getting it done at the plate, 3rd on the team in OBP-BABIP (.082).

3. Frazier - LOW SEC BABIP (.283), he's going to come around. His BB% has been cut in half from last season though. His overall BABIP is also down from an absurd .408 last year. The real Adam Frazier is somewhere in the middle of this and last season.

4. Renfroe - The scary thing about Hunter is that his BABIP is actually lower than a lot of guys in SEC play. You may have noticed him slacking off a little recently (Coach34) but his SEC OPB-BABIP far and away leads the team at .126. Monster power threat and will be assured plenty of baserunners with those 3 in front of him.

5. Rea - 2nd on the team in SLG.

6. Bradford - Finally seems to be back to were we know he can be. Normal BABIP, however he has the lowest BB% on the team. He was low last year as well, with a 2012 8% BB rate. This year he's at 7%. That's what it seems what we will get out of CT. This is a perfect spot in the lineup for a hitter like Bradford who is going to put the ball in play.

7. Porter - Low overall BABIP, absurdly low SEC BABIP. His SEC OBP-BABIP is tied with Detz at .094. Get him in this lineup.

8. Slauter - Gotta have him in the lineup. We've missed his bat.

9. Whoever's playing LF. Robson seems to have the vs RHP on lock and provided a great spark from this otherwise hole in our lineup all year. Henderson has a criminally low .222 BABIP in SEC play. He's gotten some bad breaks on the year. In SEC play him and Robson both have a high .082 OBP-BABIP. I don't have the numbers of vsRHP and vsLHP for these guys but I can see a platoon continuing for Robson and Henderson.

That's it that's the lineup guys.

Detz
Pirtle
Frazier
Renfroe
Rea
Bradford
Porter
Slauter
LF

I like your lineup. Pirtle hitting 2nd makes a team think twice about bringing lefty reliever to face top of our lineup

[Goat Holder]

1. CT.......2. Adam Frazier

I've said this all year, hopefully we go back to this soon and keep it all the way through next season.


5. Alex Detz..........6. Nick Flair

We do have a problem here. Detz' numbers may have gone down, but he puts the ball in play therefore must be in the lineup. Flair's not going to play, hang that up. He sucks in the field. He's the DH next year. And Porter absolutely must be in the lineup.


9. Brett Pirtle

WTF?

[The Croom Diaries]

If I hadn't watched a MSU game all year, and was just going based off stats, I definitely like Will's lineup but I'd swap Bradford and Detz. I'll take speed at the top and another OB guy right behind the heart of the order.

I disagree with virtually every decision Cohen makes on the field ESPECIALLY the lineup card. But at this point I'm throwing my hands up. Pirtle hitting cleanup is nuts to me, but since he's been there we've won more often than not. Hell I wanted to give up on Pirtle back in March. I also wanted to give up on Robson a while ago but look at what he did this weekend! And I've been clamoring for more Norris but every time he does get an AB he looks awful.

Frazier is struggling, but he'll get back on track. He's never been anything but a leadoff man for us so I wouldn't go changing it now. I think there are better 2-hole hitters than Detz but he does get on base in front of Renfroe and we don't want a guy who is going to steal there because they'll just pitch around Hunter. Watching Pirtle, then Rea, then Bradford come up looks like a oompa-loompa dance but what the hell, it seems to work. And for all the Frost hate I've poured out of my soul the kid's hitting .333 which is 2nd on the team, and .345 in SEC play!

I've resigned myself to just sitting back and watching the game without trying to analyze Cohen's mind-bending moves. I'll accept whatever he does at this point. I'm completely bought in.

[maroonmania]

Based on what I'm seeing from your numbers I'd go:

Pirtle
Frazier
Renfroe
Rea
CT
Detz
whoever
whoever
whoever

And yes, Nick Flair could absolutely be a worse 3rd baseman than Detz, Frost or Norris. Its a tough position to play that requires a quick reacting fielder with a strong, accurate arm. Those don't grow on trees and I would assume that if Flair was a good fielder he would have at least gotten a shot over there. Norris has the best arm but shaky as a fielder, Frost is a good fielder but doesn't have the arm and Detz is just sort of a decent fielder with a decent arm. Given I've heard Flair's defense is not that good it might be best to give him a shot at the DH spot on occasion. Hey, if Robson while batting .200 can be allowed to DH I don't see why Flair can't be given a shot at it.

[Requiem For A Dawg]

You're going to have to give up on Flair happening this year. He doesn't even get pinch hit opportunities. He isn't going to crack the lineup anytime this year. I don't even know if he's on the travel roster.

[mic]

No chance we mess with the line up this late in season.
Yes Fraizer is struggling a little in conference play but he is still our 2nd best hitter..
I said eariler that we need a TRUE leadoff hitter next year and Fraizer would be an ideal 2 hole
This may sound crazy but if we changed one thing with our line up at this point it might be lead off Pirtle . Good speed walks some and switch hitter. And I would drop fraizer to clean up.. I know he has ZERO homeruns but teams would be less likely to pitch around Hunter with Frazier hitting 4..

[Will James]

teams would be less likely to pitch around Hunter with Frazier hitting 4..

They'd be even less likely with Rea behind him

[Homedawg]

One reason rea wont hit behind renfroe is due to matchups. By sticking a lh or switch guy in between it makes it where the opposing team can't bring in a rh slider guy to get those two back to back and then go to a lhp for Bradford. Now they might leave the rh in for pirtle but at least it's not as cut and dried. I'm not talking about closers. Teams are going to go to their closer and let him pitch to whoever, if he's really good, whether he's lh or rh.

[Homedawg]

They'd be even less likely with Rea behind him

Nobody in our lineup- Frazier included would make it more likely to pitch to renfroe. We just dont have a guy that's that type of threat. Rea might it it out of the yard, but a 290 hitter doesn't stop you from pitching around an all American.

[Homedawg]

You're going to have to give up on Flair happening this year. He doesn't even get pinch hit opportunities. He isn't going to crack the lineup anytime this year. I don't even know if he's on the travel roster.

He's not. But he's 4-7 against alcorns of the world. Not sure why that makes him an all American. If he was even close to ready he would have had more chances. Our coaches have seen him in the fall and spring and there is a good reason he's so far down the line.

[Will James]

That's taking "matchups" a little to the extremes. Rea is easily the 2nd most feared hitter in our lineup because he can plant one 400 ft away in any given at bat.

[Homedawg]

That's taking "matchups" a little to the extremes. Rea is easily the 2nd most feared hitter in our lineup because he can plant one 400 ft away in any given at bat.
Maybe it is but that's one reason and a real one. Why do you think we dont like to have lh, lh, lh or rh, rh, rh fornthat reason. As for feared. Maybe. But it's not going to stop them from pitching around renfroe. It's just not. He's a 290 hitter. I repeat he's a 290 hitter. Not babe Ruth. Might be built like him, but that and striking out would be the only two similarities.

[mic]

That's taking "matchups" a little to the extremes. Rea is easily the 2nd most feared hitter in our lineup because he can plant one 400 ft away in any given at bat.

we will have to agree to disagree on this..

[Will James]

Maybe it is but that's one reason and a real one. Why do you think we dont like to have lh, lh, lh or rh, rh, rh fornthat reason. As for feared. Maybe. But it's not going to stop them from pitching around renfroe. It's just not. He's a 290 hitter. I repeat he's a 290 hitter. Not babe Ruth. Might be built like him, but that and striking out would be the only two similarities.

I thought we had progressed past batting average.

Rea is 2nd behind Renfroe in wOBA at .383
Rea is 2nd behind Renfroe in SLG at .486

If they want to put Renfroe on for Rea, be my guest. Renfroe hitting behind Detz,Pirtle,Frazier is the best thing to assure him pitches to hit because they will be occupying the bases when he is up.

[CadaverDawg]

That's it that's the lineup guys.

Detz
Pirtle
Frazier
Renfroe
Rea
Bradford
Porter
Slauter
LF


I like this lineup. You could probably toggle those first 3 because they are by far our best table setters for Renfroe. As much as Pirtle gets hit, I would be fine with him leading off too, and batting Detz 2nd and Frazier 3rd.

I think I agree with you on Slauter as well. Ammo had a nice little stretch, but Slauter gives us a better chance at run production from the bottom half of our lineup. We sacrifice a little bit of arm strength by going with Slauter, but we need his bat.

If we're facing a lefty, we should catch Ammo and DH Slauter. And then when they bring a RH reliever in, pinch hit Porter for Slauter and have Ammo turn around. Simple.

Overall, I like that lineup, and I agree that Detz and Frazier need to be flip flopped. Whoever told Frazier to start being more aggressive and take less pitches during the offseason, needs their ass kicked. I don't like this free swinging Frazier we're seeing this year. He was lights out with a two strike count last year, and always took the count near full...now it's 3 pitches, 3 swings and a groundout in the first at bat of the first game against Bama. I don't get it.

[Homedawg]

I thought we had progressed past batting average.

Rea is 2nd behind Renfroe in wOBA at .383
Rea is 2nd behind Renfroe in SLG at .486

If they want to put Renfroe on for Rea, be my guest. Renfroe hitting behind Detz,Pirtle,Frazier is the best thing to assure him pitches to hit because they will be occupying the bases when he is up.

I forget you are mr saber metrics. Forgive me. I'd say avg is very important. Esp since he only has 5 hr. point is I hardly think rea has them shaking in their boots.

[Will James]

I forget you are mr saber metrics. Forgive me. I'd say avg is very important. Esp since he only has 5 hr. point is I hardly think rea has them shaking in their boots.

4 HR in conference play is T-5 in the conference.

[Homedawg]

4 HR in conference play is T-5 in the conference.

Yea. I get it. And I don't care if we hit him 4th or not. But I'm telling you why they don't. But fact remains, nobody in our lineup is going to get renfroe more pitches. We don't have that guy.

[Will James]

Yea. I get it. And I don't care if we hit him 4th or not. But I'm telling you why they don't. But fact remains, nobody in our lineup is going to get renfroe more pitches. We don't have that guy.

And I'm saying we have those GUYS, that should hit in front of him. Also you talk about them pitching around him like it's all that bad. If they want to put him on, awesome. Especially if they put him on in front of Rea.

[Homedawg]

And I'm saying we have those GUYS, that should hit in front of him. Also you talk about them pitching around him like it's all that bad. If they want to put him on, awesome. Especially if they put him on in front of Rea.

No walking him is fine. But as I said, i dont really care who hits forth. But pirlte has done a great job in that spot since being put there. As far as renfroe, I like my best hitter third. That won't change no matter what anyone says. Most coaches do. There are exceptions. But that's more of the rule. I like it.

[Coach34]

Todd, I love ya my boy, but putting in Flair at this point is absurd. He hasnt batted since it was still Winter.

And no Porter? Have you been watching lately? All Porter does is hit when he gets consistent AB's. Not to mention- he hits DOUBLES- something our puny little line-up struggles to do.

[Will James]

Todd, I love ya my boy, but putting in Flair at this point is absurd. He hasnt batted since it was still Winter.

And no Porter? Have you been watching lately? All Porter does is hit when he gets consistent AB's. Not to mention- he hits DOUBLES- something our puny little line-up struggles to do.

Porter's overall BABIP is .284; his SEC BABIP is a LOW .226. He will get his the remainder of the regular season. Similar to Robson entering this last series.

[Will James]

I've said this all year

CT is not an ideal leadoff guy for me whatsoever. He is perfect in the 6 hole.

[Ronny]

..offer a batting order line-up card, but I will offer these observations:

1) Having your lead-off hitting (Frazier) swinging at the first pitch instead of working the count so ensuing hitters can see what the pitcher is going to offer...this is the stupidest thing I have ever seen in my life. Frazier is not a lead-off man. He doesn't have the plate discipline to be a lead-off man. Put him down in the order where his inclination to swing at the first pitch will pay dividends.

2) how the hell can Henderson keep hitting into double play after double play after double play after double play? Remember, he cost us a game (vs. UK?) because he hit into 3 double plays in one game. Then this weekend he hit into at least 1 double play (I just remember the one on Sunday; there were probably more). Cohen has to stop getting men on base in front of Henderson. It's a recipe for disaster. I don't know how you do that, outside of making the Canadian kid your everyday LF.

3) I see Bradford is again smacking the ball to the right field corner which was his stock-in-trade last year. Good to see him returning to form. He has been a bust at the plate all year; he is breaking out of his hitting funk just at the right time.

4) Pirtile is beginning to prove himself as a dependable hitter. Like Bradford, he has been asleep at this plate for most of the year, but is finally starting to wake-up.

5) Rea's hitting is improving. He is no longer chasing sliders out of the strike zone. If this guy could learn to out think SEC pitchers, he'll start going yard at the pace of Renfroe.

Ammo is also starting to deliever at the plate.

I do not see the negatives on Detz being at the plate. The guy knows how to draw walks.

All in all, I like the improvement in hitting I am seeing. Not to mention off the bench guys like Armstrong, Frost, etc. who can get you a timely hit at the moment you least expect it.

[State82]

CT is not an ideal leadoff guy for me whatsoever. He is perfect in the 6 hole.

Yes. CT does not need to leadoff. I agree that 6 is a good spot for him. Never did understand that cleanup spot against Bama, but hard to argue with success. It did baffle me about as much as Cohen has baffled me during the year (which is quite a bit). Regardless, 6 is where he should be for the most part.

[Coach34]

.

2) how the hell can Henderson keep hitting into double play after double play after double play after double play? Remember, he cost us a game (vs. UK?) because he hit into 3 double plays in one game. Then this weekend he hit into at least 1 double play (I just remember the one on Sunday; there were probably more). Cohen has to stop getting men on base in front of Henderson. It's a recipe for disaster. I don't know how you do that, outside of making the Canadian kid your everyday LF.
.

Never thought this day would come: excellent work there Ronny. You set the last sentence up perfectly

[Coach34]

Want some outside the box thinking? Lead off with Renfroe

his OBP is 100 points higher than Frazier
People would have to pitch to him more
He is our leading base stealer
He would get more AB's

1. Renfroe
2. Detz
3. Frazier
4. Rea
5. Pirtle
6. Porter
7. CT
8. Ammo
9. Robson (2nd leadoff)

[msstate7]

Want some outside the box thinking? Lead off with Renfroe

his OBP is 100 points higher than Frazier
People would have to pitch to him more
He is our leading base stealer
He would get more AB's

1. Renfroe
2. Detz
3. Frazier
4. Rea
5. Pirtle
6. Porter
7. CT
8. Ammo
9. Robson (2nd leadoff)

And hunter hits better with no one in base. Plenty of opportunities for his patented solo shots. I don't think so though...

[Will James]

Want some outside the box thinking? Lead off with Renfroe

http://images.lazygamer.net/2013/01/no-meme-rage-face.jpg

[Coach34]

And hunter hits better with no one in base. Plenty of opportunities for his patented solo shots. I don't think so though...

how would that not be better than what we have currently?

[Coach34]

http://images.lazygamer.net/2013/01/no-meme-rage-face.jpg

why not?

[Will James]

why not?

Because he's a beastly power hitter. I'm not 100% guaranteeing an AB with nobody on base, and then in his other at bats hoping that ****ing Nick Ammirati and the rest of the 7-8-9 crowd can get on base.

More plate appearances? That's a big misconception about lineups. The plate appearances don't vary THAT much. So far in SEC play Frazier only has TWO more plate appearances than Hunter. The runners he gets on base in the 3-4 hole exponentially outweighs those 2 at bats. Especially since batting leadoff is guaranteed an ab per game with nobody on base.

I really hope you're just ****ing around because that was a terrible idea

[msstate7]

how would that not be better than what we have currently?

We need hunter somewhere in lineup where runners will be on (3-5). Even if he seems to struggle with runners on, we've gotta have him up there

[Will James]

how would that not be better than what we have currently?

What we have currently is 3rd in the conference in runs scored... Behind the Minor League teams in Nashville and Red Stick

[Coach34]

We need hunter somewhere in lineup where runners will be on (3-5). Even if he seems to struggle with runners on, we've gotta have him up there

we need somebody hitting there that struggles with runners on? Gotcha....Frazier in the 3-hole aint bad ya know?

[msstate7]

we need somebody hitting there that struggles with runners on? Gotcha....Frazier in the 3-hole aint bad ya know?

I don't have problem with Frazier 3 and hunter 4. In fact, I want it

[Will James]

I don't have problem with Frazier 3 and hunter 4. In fact, I want it

Me too.

Hunter does not struggle with runners on. He's 3rd in the damn conference in RBI.

This is comedy hour

[Homedawg]

We need hunter somewhere in lineup where runners will be on (3-5). Even if he seems to struggle with runners on, we've gotta have him up there

In league games he's at the top in rbis? But we continue to talk about he can't hit w runners on. Uggghhhh

[Homedawg]

What we have currently is 3rd in the conference in runs scored... Behind the Minor League teams in Nashville and Red Stick
Nice

[msstate7]

Me too.

Hunter does not struggle with runners on. He's 3rd in the damn conference in RBI.

This is comedy hour
Struggles compared to how he hits when there aren't any on. 15 hr's and 49 rbi's ain't bad, but if he hit well with runners on he'd be pushing 65-70

[Homedawg]

Me too.

Hunter does not struggle with runners on. He's 3rd in the damn conference in RBI.

This is comedy hour

We just agreed twice in ten minutes. Things are coming around!!! Ha

[msstate7]

In league games he's at the top in rbis? But we continue to talk about he can't hit w runners on. Uggghhhh

Hunter hits better without runners on. If you don't see this, you aren't watching. He's still good, but he's unbelievable with no one on

[Homedawg]

Struggles compared to how he hits when there aren't any on. 15 hr's and 49 rbi's ain't bad, but if he hit well with runners on he'd be pushing 65-70

Amazing.....We spent a whole day talking about someone protecting him.....nevermind

[Coach34]

Struggles compared to how he hits when there aren't any on. 15 hr's and 49 rbi's ain't bad, but if he hit well with runners on he'd be pushing 65-70

Rea has as many RBI's in conference play as Renfroe does- yet Rea has 5 less HR's and hits 80 points lower.

[msstate7]

In league games he's at the top in rbis? But we continue to talk about he can't hit w runners on. Uggghhhh

In sec games he has 9 hr's and 20 rbi's. He's first in hr's and tied for 3rd in RBIs with jacoby jones and Wes rea

[Homedawg]

Hunter hits better without runners on. If you don't see this, you aren't watching. He's still good, but he's unbelievable with no one on

I've seen more Msu baseball than anybody on this board. I don't need to watch. however I do. Just because he's not as good w runners on doesn't mean he can't hit w runners on. What he sees w runners on is vastly different. There are many factors. But your statement is nuts really.

[msstate7]

Rea has as many RBI's in conference play as Renfroe does- yet Rea has 5 less HR's and hits 80 points lower.

Good call coach. Hunter hits better with no one on. 9 hr's and 20 rbi's is telling

[msstate7]

I've seen more Msu baseball than anybody on this board. I don't need to watch. however I do. Just because he's not as good w runners on doesn't mean he can't hit w runners on. What he sees w runners on is vastly different. There are many factors. But your statement is nuts really.

You're the one making up stats to support your argument. I supported mine with stats

[Homedawg]

Rea has as many RBI's in conference play as Renfroe does- yet Rea has 5 less HR's and hits 80 points lower.

I guarantee you rea has had more runners in scoring position that renfroe has in sec games.

[Homedawg]

You're the one making up stats to support your argument. I supported mine with stats

Show me one stat that I made up? He's in the top of the league rbis? Check. What other stats did I make up? Show me.

[msstate7]

Show me one stat that I made up? He's in the top of the league rbis? Check. What other stats did I make up? Show me.

You're right. My bad. I thought you said he was tops, not in the top.

[Homedawg]

You said he struggles w runners on. Then after u got called out u said struggles compared to wo anyone on. Struggles means struggles in the context you originally said it.

[msstate7]

Hunter doesn't struggle at anything compared to other hitters. That said hunter is a better hitter without runners on for whatever reason. Better?

[Will James]

Hunter hits better without runners on. If you don't see this, you aren't watching. He's still good, but he's unbelievable with no one on

Lets cut through this Three Cups of Bullshit.

Renfroe is hitting .378 with runners on base in SEC play.

That is 10 points HIGHER than his overall batting average in SEC Play.

Will James: Meme Killer

[msstate7]

Lets cut through this Three Cups of Bullshit.

Renfroe is hitting .378 with runners on base in SEC play.

That is 10 points HIGHER than his overall batting average in SEC Play.

Will James: Meme Killer

How is his RBI total low then for his number of hr's? 9 hr's and 20 rbi's and hitting .378 with runners on? Doesn't seem to add up. What's he hitting with runners in scoring position?

[Homedawg]

Yep. That's more in line

[CadaverDawg]

I guarantee you rea has had more runners in scoring position that renfroe has in sec games.

This^^.

The reason Rea has as many RBI's is because Renfroe is on base every damn time Rea comes up! Can you guys not see that? And the whole "Renfroe can't hit with runners on base", is total horse shit. If Frazier or Detz had gotten a ****ing hit or drawn a walk before Renfroe's 100 hits this season maybe he could have driven in more runs on those hits. Is it Renfroe's fault that the bases were empty during all of those solo shots? Do you think Renfroe would have seen a 2-0 fastball down the middle if men were on 2nd and 3rd versus when the bases are empty? Come on people, you can't be serious.

What all of this shit tells me, is that Will James may be right about moving Renfroe to the 4 hole. Why you say? Because we rarely get Frazier AND Detz both on ahead of him, so usually if one of them is on base, they are on 1st base. Therefore, when Renfroe hits a single, he doesn't score the runner. If you move Pirtle up in the lineup, that gives you 3 good OBP guys ahead of Renfroe and a better chance of men in scoring position.

No way in absolute hell you ever bat Renfroe lead off. I know we're just talking a bunch of hypotheticals and shit, but reading this thread damn near gave me an aneurism.

[Coach34]

Nobody has still given me a good reason not to bat him leadoff...hell, one of the things that got Rickey Henderson in the HOF was his leadoff homers to start a game

Renfroe leading off would put the pitcher on the defensive from pitch 1 of the game.
Renfroe has no more RBI's hitting 3rd as Rea does hitting 5th- so why not trade him down and get him on base more ahead of Detz, Pirtle, Frazier and Rea?

[CadaverDawg]

Nobody has still given me a good reason not to bat him leadoff...hell, one of the things that got Rickey Henderson in the HOF was his leadoff homers to start a game

Renfroe leading off would put the pitcher on the defensive from pitch 1 of the game.
Renfroe has no more RBI's hitting 3rd as Rea does hitting 5th- so why not trade him down and get him on base more ahead of Detz, Pirtle, Frazier and Rea?

Because Renfroe would have ZERO RBI's if he batted lead off, except for the 15 HR's would be all solo shots. You have got to try and set the table for your best hitter and your best power hitter. Again, a lot of Rea's RBI's are because our best two hitters are hitting right before him in Renfroe and Pirtle. Frazier and Detz have not done a great job of getting into scoring position for Hunter in SEC play.

You're entitled to your opinion, but there are stats and information for years about why we shouldn't bat Renfroe in the lead off spot. That would be the equivalent of batting Ammirati 1st and Robson 2nd and leaving Renfroe in the 3 hole.

As leadoff, Only one guaranteed time per game would he lead off an inning, and every other time he would be counting on Ammo and Robson to get on base. It just goes against anything logical.

[Will James]

While we are talking about Renfroe and his plate appearances with runners on base.... Wanna know what his On Base Percentage is with runners on???

.566
?He has been walked more times WITH RUNNERS ALREADY ON BASE (15) than he has hits with runners on (14)

[msstate7]

While we are talking about Renfroe and his plate appearances with runners on base.... Wanna know what his On Base Percentage is with runners on???

.566
?He has been walked more times WITH RUNNERS ALREADY ON BASE (15) than he has hits with runners on (14)


Maybe if you drop renfroe to 4th or 5th they won't be able to pitch around him so much. Katz leads the sec in rbi's hitting 5th doesn't he?

[Will James]

Maybe if you drop renfroe to 4th or 5th they won't be able to pitch around him so much. Katz leads the sec in rbi's hitting 5th doesn't he?

I've only been saying this since February

[Homedawg]

While we are talking about Renfroe and his plate appearances with runners on base.... Wanna know what his On Base Percentage is with runners on???

.566
?He has been walked more times WITH RUNNERS ALREADY ON BASE (15) than he has hits with runners on (14)


Amazing isn't it.

[CadaverDawg]

I've only been saying this since February

I'll give you credit for that, but not without saying that your numbers weren't nearly as supportive of that earlier in the year. Once CT went into the shitter, Detz's average dropped, Frazier's average dropped, and Rea's average and power stepped up....it was not nearly as clear cut.

But yes, you were right. Just like I was right about Rea being our 2nd best power hitter and needing to bat behind Renfroe. While others were telling me that Pirtle had as much power as Rea just because for a while they both had 1 homerun. Some of our message board geniuses absolutely amaze me.

Good call though.

[Coach34]

Because Renfroe would have ZERO RBI's if he batted lead off, Frazier and Detz have not done a great job of getting into scoring position for Hunter in SEC play.

You're entitled to your opinion, but there are stats and information for years about why we shouldn't bat Renfroe in the lead off spot.

As leadoff, Only one guaranteed time per game would he lead off an inning, and every other time he would be counting on Ammo and Robson to get on base. It just goes against anything logical.

Our leadoff hitter has scored 17 runs in SEC play- Renfroe has scored 25. Why? Because he gets on base at a much higher rate and is being driven in by the people behind him. Why not move him up the order and have that happen sooner? Renfroe would walk more than Frazier and get on ****ing base- which is what you want your leadoff guy to do.

Pirtle and Rea can knock in runs with people on base- they are proving that already. And we would get Frazier out of leadoff- a spot he is not flourishing in- and into the 2-hole or something better suited for him. Hell, getting Renfroe on then Frazier behind him would really set the table.

Robson is our 4th leading hitter in SEC play currently btw- maybe he is getting on more than you think he is.

[Will James]

Renfroe is a better hitter with people on base than Rea

[CadaverDawg]

Our leadoff hitter has scored 17 runs in SEC play- Renfroe has scored 25. Why? Because he gets on base at a much higher rate and is being driven in by the people behind him. Why not move him up the order and have that happen sooner? Renfroe would walk more than Frazier and get on ****ing base- which is what you want your leadoff guy to do.

Pirtle and Rea can knock in runs with people on base- they are proving that already. And we would get Frazier out of leadoff- a spot he is not flourishing in- and into the 2-hole or something better suited for him. Hell, getting Renfroe on then Frazier behind him would really set the table.

Robson is our 4th leading hitter in SEC play currently btw- maybe he is getting on more than you think he is.

Coach, Frazier has scored less because he's getting on base less.

Renfroe getting on base is why Rea and Pirtle have so many RBIs. If Renfroe had another Renfroe ahead of him, then his RBI numbers would be better too. If Renfroe is our best RBI guy, how would it help to lead him off and give him even less chances at RBIs?

Not trying to piss you off, I just see no logical reason to bat Renfroe lead off. But it's not worth arguing over or anything. We can just agree to disagree. I may be the only one that feels that way anyway.

[Will James]

I just see no logical reason to bat Renfroe lead off.

Because there is no logical reason

[Todd4State]

Renfroe is a better hitter with people on base than Rea

No doubt. That's why he gets walked all the time. Ask any pitcher in the SEC who they would rather pitch to with runners on base.

[Todd4State]

Maybe if you drop renfroe to 4th or 5th they won't be able to pitch around him so much. Katz leads the sec in rbi's hitting 5th doesn't he?

Katz has been hitting fourth lately. Alex Bregman only has five home runs in the three spot, but he is also hitting ,401. They just have a more conventional lineup than we do.

[Todd4State]

Todd, I love ya my boy, but putting in Flair at this point is absurd. He hasnt batted since it was still Winter.

And no Porter? Have you been watching lately? All Porter does is hit when he gets consistent AB's. Not to mention- he hits DOUBLES- something our puny little line-up struggles to do.

I know it's not going to happen. But that's disappointing to me because I think he would be a better option.

I like Porter coming off the bench a lot better than I do starting him. He takes a lot of bad at bats, and he is only hitting slightly better than Demarcus Henderson. His slugging percentage is lower than Sam Frost's, who has one less double than Porter.

That said, I am prepared to eat crow for a short time because last year, he tore Bobby Wahl a new one. I'm expecting him to start on Friday for that reason alone.

[Coach34]

Coach, Frazier has scored less because he's getting on base less.

Renfroe getting on base is why Rea and Pirtle have so many RBIs.

that's exactly my point

[CadaverDawg]

that's exactly my point

What do you mean? That can't be a "point" because we only have 1 Renfroe.

[Coach34]

Renfroe is a better hitter with people on base than Rea

is there anybody that is disputing this? All I did was point out that they have the same amount of RBI's in SEC play

[CadaverDawg]

is there anybody that is disputing this? All I did was point out that they have the same amount of RBI's in SEC play

So you're agreeing that he's our best hitter with men on base, yet you want to bat him leadoff and take away the chance at having as many guys on base?

Sorry, but that makes no sense

[Coach34]

What do you mean? That can't be a "point" because we only have 1 Renfroe.

You said:

"Coach, Frazier has scored less because he's getting on base less.

Renfroe getting on base is why Rea and Pirtle have so many RBIs."


And that is my point. Renfroe gets on base a helluva lot more than Frazier does. And we have people to knock in Renfroe when he gets on base more. Pirtle and Rea have shown they can get the job done.

Simply explained:

I'm looking at helping our offense by getting our leadoff guy on base more while at the same time making it harder for them to pitch around Renfroe.

You guys are worried about losing Renfroe as an RBI guy- I'm not, people pitch around him alot anyway

[Coach34]

yet you want to bat him leadoff and take away the chance at having as many guys on base?

Sorry, but that makes no sense

No- with Renfroe leading off- we will have MORE guys on base

[CadaverDawg]

No- with Renfroe leading off- we will have MORE guys on base

Not Ahead of him! I thought the goal is to get guys on ahead of him so he can get RBIs AND have Rea behind him to knock him in. In your scenario, you lose rbi opportunities for your best rbi guy. In our scenario, you get both.

[Coach34]

Not Ahead of him! I thought the goal is to get guys on ahead of him so he can get RBIs AND have Rea behind him to knock him in. In your scenario, you lose rbi opportunities for your best rbi guy. In our scenario, you get both.

The goal is to score more runs....aGAIN:

I'm looking at helping our offense by getting our leadoff guy on base more while at the same time making it harder for them to pitch around Renfroe.

You guys are worried about losing Renfroe as an RBI guy- I'm not, people pitch around him alot anyway

[CadaverDawg]

The goal is to score more runs....aGAIN:

I'm looking at helping our offense by getting our leadoff guy on base more while at the same time making it harder for them to pitch around Renfroe.

You guys are worried about losing Renfroe as an RBI guy- I'm not, people pitch around him alot anyway

No, we're looking at Renfroe being beneficial in two ways, while your way makes him beneficial in only 1. Why yake away his chances at rbis, just to get him on base for others....when you can have Both?

In the 3 and 4 hole, he can get rbis AND set the table for Pirtle and Rea. That's the main reason Rea has so many rbis..but you want to take that away? Why?

[mic]

Do I agree with Renfroe leading off. Not really, but if you want a positive about it he would be assured of getting the most possible at bats every game.
and whos to say the 8 and 9 hole guys wont be on base when he comes to the plate in the 1 hole. More AB's for Renfroe and Fraizer the better for us

[CadaverDawg]

When you have a guy like Renfroe, your goal should be to get guys on base ahead of him (OBP guys) and have guys behind him that can knock him in(rbi guys) after he gets on base.

You lead him off and you lose that first part and only have the second part. Bat him 3rd or 4th you get both.

Im actually a little stunned that this is even an argument, bc it is such a no brainer. So I'll bow out.

[Will James]

Im actually a little stunned that this is even an argument

I'm at a loss for words as well.

In SEC play Renfroe is averaging over 1.5 RBI's PER AT BAT WITH RISP

per at bat with RISP

[Coach34]

No, we're looking at Renfroe being beneficial in two ways, while your way makes him beneficial in only 1. Why yake away his chances at rbis, just to get him on base for others....when you can have Both?

In the 3 and 4 hole, he can get rbis AND set the table for Pirtle and Rea. That's the main reason Rea has so many rbis..but you want to take that away? Why?

Seriously? My way:

1. gets our leadoff hitter on base more and also gives us a power aspect leading off we dont currently have. Getting a 1st inning lead on a HR would be big
2. With Renfroe on base now- you make Frazier more dangerous. Does he bunt? Does he hit and run? Bunt slash? You also open up the right side of the infield for Frazier- who is a LH'ed hitter.
3. Pirtle now bats 3rd- he is hitting .345 in SEC play.
4. Rea bats 4th- He is 3rd in the SEC with 20 RBI's in SEC play now that he is fully healthy.

To me, thats a better chance to score runs than what we have currently:

1. Frazier leading off- batting under .250 in SEC play
2. Detz- SEC pitching is starting to take its toll
3. Renfroe- getspitched around quite a bit
4. Pirtle- has benefited from Renfroe being ahead of him

[Homedawg]

Do I agree with Renfroe leading off. Not really, but if you want a positive about it he would be assured of getting the most possible at bats every game.
and whos to say the 8 and 9 hole guys wont be on base when he comes to the plate in the 1 hole. More AB's for Renfroe and Fraizer the better for us
Who is to say? Me. I've seen them hit all year.

[Coach34]

When you have a guy like Renfroe, your goal should be to get guys on base ahead of him (OBP guys) and have guys behind him that can knock him in(rbi guys) after he gets on base.
.

but what do you do when that isnt happening????? Keep trying people and HOPE?

We arent getting guys on base ahead of him enough

[Coach34]

Who is to say? Me. I've seen them hit all year.

Oh really? You need to look harder- in SEC play:

Frazier- .313 OBP
Detz- .320 OBP

Robson? .351 OBP


So if Renfroe lead off and we kept Robson 9th- he would have a runner on ahead of him more often

[Will James]

but what do you do when that isnt happening????? Keep trying people and HOPE?

We arent getting guys on base ahead of him enough

We are 3rd in the mother****ing conference in runs scored precisely because people are getting on in front of him and then he is getting walked to put even more people on base.

We need to move him to cleanup not the ****ing leadoff spot. This is the most asinine thing I have ever seen

[CadaverDawg]

Seriously? My way:

1. gets our leadoff hitter on base more and also gives us a power aspect leading off we dont currently have. Getting a 1st inning lead on a HR would be big
2. With Renfroe on base now- you make Frazier more dangerous. Does he bunt? Does he hit and run? Bunt slash? You also open up the right side of the infield for Frazier- who is a LH'ed hitter.
3. Pirtle now bats 3rd- he is hitting .345 in SEC play.
4. Rea bats 4th- He is 3rd in the SEC with 20 RBI's in SEC play now that he is fully healthy.

To me, thats a better chance to score runs than what we have currently:

1. Frazier leading off- batting under .250 in SEC play
2. Detz- SEC pitching is starting to take its toll
3. Renfroe- getspitched around quite a bit
4. Pirtle- has benefited from Renfroe being ahead of him

1. Can Renfroe not hit a 1st inning HR in the 3 hole?
2. Pirtle is a lefty, so we still have that scenario.
3. A few sentences down you said Pirtle benefits from hitting behind Renfroe...which is it?
4 Rea got those numbers in the 5 hole bc Renfroe is always on ahead of him. That changes nothing except losing rbi chances for Rea too, bc you move him further from Hunter.

[CadaverDawg]

Oh really? You need to look harder- in SEC play:

Frazier- .313 OBP
Detz- .320 OBP

Robson? .351 OBP


So if Renfroe lead off and we kept Robson 9th- he would have a runner on ahead of him more often

Pretty convenient stat after Robson's best weekend ever. Can you tell me how many at bats Robson has had in comparison to Detz and Frazier?

[Will James]

If Rea got as many RBI's per At Bat with RISP as Hunter he would have 51 RBI's not 20.

[Will James]

I think Coach is trolling....

[CadaverDawg]

We are 3rd in the mother****ing conference in runs scored precisely because people are getting on in front of him and then he is getting walked to put even more people on base.

We need to move him to cleanup not the ****ing leadoff spot. This is the most asinine thing I have ever seen

This. Im shocked. I hope to find out that Coach took this stance to create an argument and draw traffic. Holy hell.

[Coach34]

If Rea got as many RBI's per At Bat with RISP as Hunter he would have 51 RBI's not 20.

stop with the straw man- nobody is saying Rea is better. But Renfroe doesnt get the chances Rea does because he is walked all the time. Production is production

[Will James]

This. Im shocked. I hope to find out that Coach took this stance to create an argument and draw traffic. Holy hell.

Renfroe has 12 at bats with runners in scoring position. He has 20 RBI's.

[Will James]

stop with the straw man- nobody is saying Rea is better. But Renfroe doesnt get the chances Rea does because he is walked all the time. Production is production

He'll get more chances in the 4 hole....

[Coach34]

We are 3rd in the mother****ing conference in runs scored precisely because people are getting on in front of him and then he is getting walked to put even more people on base.


Which means we're not 1st or 2nd- and need to improve

SEC-only batting averages:

Robson- .294
Ammo- .263
Frazier- .257
Detz- .216

Renfroe wiould have just as many runners on ahead of him batting 1st as he would batting 3rd currently- so there goes your theory there

[Coach34]

Renfroe has 12 at bats with runners in scoring position. He has 20 RBI's.

9 of those on solo HR's

[Will James]

Renfroe wiould have just as many runners on ahead of him batting 1st as he would batting 3rd currently- so there goes your theory there

Uh, no he wouldn't because one at bat would be guaranteed 100% every time to NEVER NEVER NEVER have ANYONE on base. The first inning.

[CadaverDawg]

stop with the straw man- nobody is saying Rea is better. But Renfroe doesnt get the chances Rea does because he is walked all the time. Production is production

So you want to take away the free pass AND take away RBI opps? Rea is far more scary behind Renfroe than Frazier would be. If anything, it would lead to more walks of Hunter because a Frazier single wont drive him home from 1st the way a Rea Double can.

There's just not a single thing that supports moving him to lead off. If we had two Renfroes, I still wouldn't bat one of them leadoff.

[Will James]

9 of those on solo HR's

Oh so they are pitching to him.

[Coach34]

Renfroe has 12 at bats with runners in scoring position.

and that's in 24 ****ing games. 24. Yet we cant move him to leadoff because of all the RBI chances he gets???

Wow...that's dumb as shit...that's one chance every 2 games

[Coach34]

Uh, no he wouldn't because one at bat would be guaranteed 100% every time to NEVER NEVER NEVER have ANYONE on base. The first inning.

exactly- just like he gets alot in the 3-hole currently for all his solo HR's

[Will James]

and that's in 24 ****ing games. 24. Yet we cant move him to leadoff because of all the RBI chances he gets???

Wow...that's dumb as shit...that's one chance every 2 games

At bats doesnt include walks. He has 23 plate appearances with RISP and he's gotten on base 17 times.

Rea has 35 plate appearances with RISP.

That tells me that we need to move Hunter to the 4 hole. Like Mason Katz.

[Will James]

http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?1434-Renfroe-vs-Rea-RISP-This-will-blow-you-away

[Coach34]

That tells me that we need to move Hunter to the 4 hole. Like Mason Katz.

They are not going to start magically pitching to him in the 4-hole. The last thing we need to do is move him down the order

[Coach34]

There's just not a single thing that supports moving him to lead off.

1. Higher OBP than Frazier
2. Runs better than Frazier
3. Our 8 and 9 hole hit just as well as our 1 and 2 hole
4. It would allow Frazier to do more things in the 2-hole and make him more dangerous
5. Pirtle and Rea would still get the same RBI chances- as well as move up a spot in the order as they are some of our best hitters in SEC play

should I keep going?

[Will James]

1. Higher OBP than Frazier
2. Runs better than Frazier
3. Our 8 and 9 hole hit just as well as our 1 and 2 hole
4. It would allow Frazier to do more things in the 2-hole and make him more dangerous
5. Pirtle and Rea would still get the same RBI chances- as well as move up a spot in the order as they are some of our best hitters in SEC play

should I keep going?

1. Should Miguel Cabrera lead off for the Tigers, he's their best OBP guy
2. Who gives a shit how they run
3. No they dont.
4. We don't need him to do more things
5. No they wouldn't. They get RBI chances by Renfroe getting on with runners already on base. You will eliminate 25% of that.

[Coach34]

1. Should Miguel Cabrera lead off for the Tigers, he's their best OBP guy- no, he cant run
2. Who gives a shit how they run- because speed puts pressure on the pitcher and defense ...Vandy is the perfect example...quit being stupid
3. No they dont. - as stats guy- you know they are currently
4. We don't need him to do more things- sure we do. Why are you against making him better?
5. No they wouldn't. They get RBI chances by Renfroe getting on with runners already on base. You will eliminate 25% of that.

bb

[Homedawg]

To say our 8-9 hole hit as well as 1-2 is more than a little misleading. First, robson and ammo don't have as many at bats. So, one 1-10 weekend and their avg would plummet quickly. Second they aren't ob as much. Coach I know u really don't want those 2 1-2 but your argument almost supports that.

[Will James]

1. no, he cant run[/B]
2. because speed puts pressure on the pitcher and defense ...Vandy is the perfect example...quit being stupid
3. as stats guy- you know they are currently
4. sure we do. Why are you against making him better?
5. No they wouldn't. They get RBI chances by Renfroe getting on with runners already on base. You will eliminate 25% of that.

1. and 2. If you are going to have Frazier Pirtle and Rea behind him, why the hell are we going to steal. I am against ever stealing Renfroe personally because thats where a lot of injuries happen.

3. as a stats guy I'm not going to take the miniscule sample of Robson's big day. Detz and Frazier on the year combined .812 OBP. Robson and Ammo .673

4. His BABIP is really low. We don't need to change anything about Frazier except encourage him to have better plate selection.

5. Yeah, thats still the same.

[Will James]

They are not going to start magically pitching to him in the 4-hole. The last thing we need to do is move him down the order

Both of these sentences are wrong.

[Coach34]

Both of these sentences are wrong.

no they are not- Renfroe is going to get walked no matter where he hits in the order unless they simply have no choice. The only thing batting him 4th will do is make him the leadoff hitter for the 2nd inning in alot of games

[CadaverDawg]

no they are not- Renfroe is going to get walked no matter where he hits in the order unless they simply have no choice. The only thing batting him 4th will do is make him the leadoff hitter for the 2nd inning in alot of games

Ha, so let me get this straight....

You are against batting him 4th bc he may lead off the 2nd inning on occasion, but you think we should bat him 1st where he leads off every single game and is guaranteed to not have anyone on base at least 1 at bat per game...and likely more than that?

This stance is looking more ridiculous by the minute.

Do you like him leading off innings or not?
And you Do realize that leadoff is only guarabteed to lead off the inning once per game. Every other time, we will be dependent on Ammo and Robson to get in scoring pisition if we want Renfroe to get a single RBI.

Is this for real?

[Will James]

In SEC play our 3 hole hitter has led off 24 innings
In SEC play our 4 hole hitter has led off 16 innings

He will get more AB's with runners on base at cleanup. He will get more pitches to hit because others will be on base at cleanup.