Tenn HS coach never punts, onside kicks every time

[Coach34]

was just on Cowherd- the guy has won a few state titles. Says statistically punting is not the right thing. Has punted 7 times in the last 7 years- like before the end of a half on his own 10 yard line and there is 10 seconds left is an instance in which he did.

Another point he made was that special teams were not 1/3 of the game as people like to say- but actually only make up 11% of the game. Doesnt waste a ton of practice on it- instead goes for two, onside kicks, etc...

Interesting...I bet his DC has some sleepless nights

[smootness]

I've always thought the claim that 'special teams is 1/3 of football' was dumb - it's 1/3 in the sense that there are 3 main groups: offense, defense, and special teams. But special teams clearly aren't on the field 1/3 of the time and don't have as much impact in the overall game as offense and defense do.

And I like coaches who play %s and don't punt much or onside kick a lot. However, it has to be done in certain cases, and it seems like this coach gets that.

I don't think you should onside kick every time. While the %s may ultimately play to your advantage, football is a one-game scenario. So while you may recover 25% of onside kicks, you may get 50% one game and 0 the other, and the game in which you get 0 you're almost certainly going to lose. So while you're almost certainly going to win the game you got half of your onside kicks, it's not worth going 1-1 when you may have chosen your spots to onside kick and won both games, even when you didn't recover any in one game.

[HoopsDawg]

This is an old story, but I strongly think that coaches punt way too much on 4th down. I like how Mullen goes for it, but I still cringe at him punting on 4th and short in A&M territory last year. Or trying a 40+ yard FG instead of going for it on 4th and 3.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

was just on Cowherd- the guy has won a few state titles. Says statistically punting is not the right thing. Has punted 7 times in the last 7 years- like before the end of a half on his own 10 yard line and there is 10 seconds left is an instance in which he did.

Another point he made was that special teams were not 1/3 of the game as people like to say- but actually only make up 11% of the game. Doesnt waste a ton of practice on it- instead goes for two, onside kicks, etc...

Interesting...I bet his DC has some sleepless nights

Well if you think you can successfully convert a 2 point conversion more than 50% of the time it's obviously the right choice. May not be a bad idea with our kickers.

[smootness]

Well if you think you can successfully convert a 2 point conversion more than 50% of the time it's obviously the right choice. May not be a bad idea with our kickers.

I agree, especially when you combine that with the fact that we are going to be very, very tough to stop in short-yardage situations this year. Prescott leading the charge with Robinson, Griffin, and Shumpert...Samuel and Hutcherson leading the way. I don't envy our opponents trying to stop that.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

I think I have read that even in the NFL 2 point conversions when you run it are over 50%...maybe even verging on 60%. That's in the NFL. Really wouldn't be a bad strategy.

[smootness]

The problem is, the higher the level, the less likely the coach is going to be to buck trends and risk his job. They know that if they make an unconventional decision and it doesn't work, they will be killed while if they make a conventional decision and it doesn't work, the blame will fall on the players.

I'm not saying coaches are trying to put the blame on their players, just saying that they know there will be less heat with a conventional decision than an unconventional one, even if the unconventional one actually has a better chance of ultimately succeeding.

[Political Hack]

here's a percentage for y'all... punting on 4th and less than 2nwith Dak as your QB is stupid almost 100% of the time.

[TheRef]

Actually he is in Arkansas at Pulaski Academy. It fits to his team. I had a conversation with a guy that played against them and he said they were good at what they did. Would it transfer into college? Maybe...would take a couple of years to get the needed personnel.

[ckDOG]

It makes a lot of sense in high school when your punters, kickers, snappers all suck. Concentrate on executing your offense game plan and you should end up better.

College? It's all about your opponent. If you plan on a game being a shoot out, be aggressive, keep special teams on the sideline and score as many TDs and two point conversions as possible. Think you will be in a defensive struggle? Field position is very important. Flip the field with solid punting. 3 points are also of premium value.

[M.Fillmore]

Actually he is in Arkansas at Pulaski Academy.

The guy in Little Rock at Pulaski definitely does this. There are some interesting videos on YouTube of his team. Some small D-1 school in California thought about taking this model last season but they ended up passing on the idea.

[Big4Dawg]

It changes your mindset on offense too i bet. Knowing you have four tries for 10 yards, instead of just 3.

[dawgs]

if 4th and <5, you should almost always go for it imo. obviously depending on the clock and location on the field, but i'd say anything past your own 40 would be a good start. i also think you should almost always go for 2 (pretty much everyone averages over 4 ypp, most over 5 ypp - you do the math), unless there's a situation where the extra point is all you need to go up 1 late in a game. think about it though, the D is going to already be demoralized from giving up the TD. the key is treating the play like any other play on the field, not as something necessitating a special play call where you outsmart yourself. eventually a college coach will do this. chip kelly seemed to be heading this way before going to the NFL.

[dawg21]

I'm not sure the onside kick thing would translate so well at another level. Not punting at all, 4th and 15 from your own 20??...let me just say you better have some players. I'm fine with a non-traditional route, but you still need to play to your teams strengths. Most HS don't spend a lot of time on special teams, heck most football teams period don't.

Hey, it works for him and got them some pub. He's committed to it and that's the difference then "taking some gambles". I just don't see how you can not punt in near-impossible scenarios.

[Atrain311]

On a high school level, I actually agree with going for 2 every time and also I totally understand the onside kick part too. I would probably punt more than he does but that's about it.

If this is that Arkansas coach we're talking about I remember his explanations for the onside kicks. He said that basically in high school the average starting field position is about the 35 yard line. In high school you kick at the 40 so if the ball travels at least 10 yards they get the ball at around midfield. He basically said that in that scenario he's only losing between 10-15 yards of field position and the chance of getting the ball back makes that 10-15 yards well worth the risk. I thought it was brilliant.

[Todd4State]

I'm somewhere in the middle.

If I was in a coach in the SEC, I would go for it on most fourth downs in the other teams territory. Really the only time I would punt is if it was 4th and 35 or something like that and the offense was self-destructing. I feel like if you punt in the other teams territory, the odds are you are going to get a touchback and so you are only netting about 20-30 yards at best. And of course in field goal range, I think you take that a good bit of the time- but I still would probably go for it on fourth down more than normal and almost automatically if it was fourth and 3 or less.

If my team was in our territory, punting is probably not a bad idea given the risk reward. There is some value in field position. But I will say that if it was fourth and 2 or less, I would probably be inclined to go for it depending on my gut feeling.

I wouldn't do the onside kicking in college. Just because of where the ball is in relation to where it is in college vs. high school. Now, if the other team committed a dead ball personal foul on a score and they moved the ball up- I would definitely consider surprise onside kicking there.

So, I guess my philosophy would be similar to Pete Carroll.