State-Vandy game thread

[Coach34]

should be a thrilling end to the season tonight

[Coach34]

great start- look like a basketball team

[grinnindawg]

Johnson has developed a good offensive game.
He, Sword, and Ware all look like SEC caliber players.

[Coach34]

Borchert is terrible unless he is making shots. He literally does nothing else well

[thf24]

I think Johnson will thrive next year when he can play from the 3. He can go to work from the wing with his back to the basket against smaller defenders, while not having to guard guys who have two inches and thirty pounds on him on the other end.

[Coach34]

We're gonna be ok next year...that was the best 9 minutes of basketball we have played under Ray

Sword has got to work hard on his jumper- as do some others
Daniels and Ware inside

We will be improved and be decent next season

[Bothrops]

No way we can win this game. If it goes like this in the second half, the officials will step in for Vandy. Sad but true.

[msstate7]

We're gonna be ok next year...that was the best 9 minutes of basketball we have played under Ray

Sword has got to work hard on his jumper- as do some others
Daniels and Ware inside

We will be improved and be decent next season

Gotta find some interior defense and rebounding

[Coach34]

Gotta find some interior defense and rebounding

having legitimate post players will make that better. Roq Johnson is a 3 that sometimes has to play the 5 because of foul trouble- that wont happen next year

[thf24]

Gotta find some interior defense and rebounding

I expect that problem to fix itself through available personnel. We have one guy right now who can adequately guard and rebound against prototypical power forwards and centers; next year we'll have four.

[Bothrops]

Sword is very talented

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

What channel is the game on

[Coach34]

Sword has made 2 absolute dogshit passes tonight for turnovers

[engie]

Welp, it's starting to seem that Fred is figuring out this shooting thing a little bit...

Not that the reasonable among us ever doubted he would...

3-3 from 3

[thf24]

Welp, it's starting to seem that Fred is figuring out this shooting thing a little bit...

Not that the reasonable among us ever doubted he would...

3-3 from 3

61 has got to be losing his mind right now.

[cbrunt29]

What channel is the game on
CBS

[RC3]

God where has this Fred thomas been all season?
If he could play like this even semi regularly, we would be much better

[Intramural All-American]

Welp, it's starting to seem that Fred is figuring out this shooting thing a little bit...

Not that the reasonable among us ever doubted he would...

3-3 from 3

Cut him. And cut three other people. And bring in 4 BETTER PLAYERS. That's the recipe for success guys. That's what I've been told at least.

[grinnindawg]

"tweaked his hambone"

[smootness]

Welp, it's starting to seem that Fred is figuring out this shooting thing a little bit...

9-20 from 3 over our last 3.5, which includes an 0-4 against UGA.

[Coach34]

9-20 from 3 over our last 3.5, which includes an 0-4 against UGA.

b-b-b-but tcdog70 said Fred's percentage would drop????

[smootness]

Cut him. And cut three other people. And bring in 4 BETTER PLAYERS.

...from the Sanderson. There are 13 potential all-Americans suiting up over there, but Ray is too stupid or proud to go ask them to play for us. He'd rather have 6 scholarship players.

[Coach34]

great half of basketball. That was a well-coached team playing their ass off as usual. The difference? We made shots

I cant wait to watch us next year with a full club

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

CBS

Im in Starkville with DISH. Not on CBS. Anyone know?

[smootness]

great half of basketball. That was a well-coached team playing their ass off as usual. The difference? We made shots

I cant wait to watch us next year with a full club

We need a couple of guys to really take a big step and be legitimately really good players. We'll see if that happens...I think Ware, Sword, Thomas, or possibly Daniels could be candidates for that.

[engie]

It's funny to me how "guys that just want our program to do well" disappear from game threads during potentially our last game of the year when we're playing well -- yet when we're struggling, they completely take over game threads and make them unreadable. Something doesn't add up in all that.

[smootness]

Anyone who blames Ray for the current state of the program clearly doesn't 'just want our program to do well'.

[whosyourdawgy]

Jabary Davis has got to be let go at the end of the season. He absolutely sucks ass! I would rather have Tyson in the game 100 percent of the time than for him to get a single damn minute. He can't defend, he can't dribble, he can't do shit! Oh, he can get a stupid ass obvious offensive foul for no freaking reason trying to just dribble down the court. Please let him transfer at the end of the season. PLEASE!!

[whosyourdawgy]

We may also want to at least get a hand in a face of the wide open 3 point shooters. Up 16 and just decide to give 3 wide open looks at the 3 which they knock down and we have a game now.

[smootness]

Jabary Davis has got to be let go at the end of the season. He absolutely sucks ass! I would rather have Tyson in the game 100 percent of the time than for him to get a single damn minute. He can't defend, he can't dribble, he can't do shit! Oh, he can get a stupid ass obvious offensive foul for no freaking reason trying to just dribble down the court. Please let him transfer at the end of the season. PLEASE!!

Posts like these are very constructive and appreciated.

[engie]

Posts like these are very constructive and appreciated.

Seriously.

ETA: It's coming into focus now.

Daniels was Ray's fault - http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?13815-Look-Ray-could-have-played-Daniels-this-year-and-won-6-8-SEC-games&p=146630#post146630

Williams only won because of Stansbury - http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?13828-MSU-basketball-season-stats-brought-to-you-by-Coach-34-and-Rick-Ray&p=146539#post146539

Arguing with stats showing this team is improved over last year - http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?13678-Is-this-basketball-team-improved&p=144734#post144734

The "apathy, no tickets" argument - http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?13661-So-there-s-another-Stansbury-Transfer-lighting-the-world-on-fire&p=144729#post144729

[Political Hack]

please please please make a run... get some confidence going into next season. Beating Vandy would be pretty solid to close out considering the streak we're on.

[Coach34]

Jabary Davis has got to be let go at the end of the season. He absolutely sucks ass! I would rather have Tyson in the game 100 percent of the time than for him to get a single damn minute. He can't defend, he can't dribble, he can't do shit! Oh, he can get a stupid ass obvious offensive foul for no freaking reason trying to just dribble down the court. Please let him transfer at the end of the season. PLEASE!!

shut up

[Raytoraid83]

please please please make a run... get some confidence going into next season. Beating Vandy would be pretty solid to close out considering the streak we're on.

Ole Miss game could be interesting too assuming we hang on. Seems like Kennedy is ready for the season to be over after his quotes this morning.

[BeardoMSU]

If we hold on and take this game.....we get to play the antichrist tomorrow. At this point in the season, we're already embarrassed, so if MH drops 15 3's on us, so what. But if win.....OH BOY....talk about meltdown mode in Confederate Village. Everything to gain, nothing to lose....

[Political Hack]

Ole Miss game could be interesting too assuming we hang on. Seems like Kennedy is ready for the season to be over after his quotes this morning.

Ware is going beast mode. We can certainly beat Ole Miss right now and to win two in the tourney would be a huge plus going into next season.

[C222]

Great play call out the of the TO on the back door by Chicken.

[engie]

That should pretty well ice it...

[Raytoraid83]

Ware is going beast mode. We can certainly beat Ole Miss right now and to win two in the tourney would be a huge plus going into next season.

Yep if Gavin keeps working hard in the offseason he has a chance to be a beast next year.

[Political Hack]

I was ready to choke the chicken when he took a shot with 26 seconds left in the shot clock, but he made it so... he's cool.

[C222]

Haven't seen us attack the basket like this in a while.

[Coach34]

We have played damn good basketball tonight

**** you mf'ers and your 14 losses in a row bullshit

[Political Hack]

all we have to do is milk the clock, rebound and make free throws for 4 minutes.

[Coach34]

Yep if Gavin keeps working hard in the offseason he has a chance to be a beast next year.

He has developed well. He still has alot of work to do- but you can see he is doing what he can. He's getting there

[smootness]

Say what you will about this year, this is an amazing performance by our team. To come out with this kind of effort after the year we had is incredible.

[whosyourdawgy]

Damn, if we had shot 70 percent all year we could've won more games.

[Political Hack]

That should pretty well ice it...

i played on a state championship team that scored 8 points in 18 seconds to win a game once. It's not over yet... they've got to take care of business still. Lots of time left.

[engie]

Damn, if we had shot 70 percent all year we could've won more games.

I bet you are ready to kick a baby aren't you...

[Maroonthirteen]

What was Jacks phrase...." Hotter than a deep pot stove".

The players seemed to be taking better shots and looking more confident. That can real make a difference with shooting touch. I hope we stay hot one more night.

[Political Hack]

I bet you are ready to kick a baby aren't you...

I laughed.

[thf24]

Very encouraging to see Ray get our guys up for at least one more win this season. Very telling that so many posters who've seemed so eager to talk about basketball over the past two months have nothing to say.

[engie]

Very encouraging to see Ray get our guys up for at least one more win this season. Very telling that so many posters who've seemed so eager to talk about basketball over the past two months have nothing to say.

But "they just want what's best for MSU"... Obviously...

[LC Dawg]

All things considered that was a very impressive performance tonight. You can all say what you want about Coach Ray but he had those guys ready to play tonight. The fact that our team has not given up speaks volumes to me about the players and the coaches.

[dogshiek]

I just want to win one more.

[msstate7]

Very proud of our team tonight. Really like the player fred thomas is becoming

[CadaverDawg]

Say what you will about this year, this is an amazing performance by our team. To come out with this kind of effort after the year we had is incredible.

I agree completely. I did not expect to see us come out with any fight, much less a convincing win tonight. I have my doubts, but there is no doubt that these kids refuse to mail it in. That is a positive.

Now, let's beat OM and send Marshall out with a L. And if we lose to them, let's just go all Kimdicnmhe and say "If our name wasn't MSU, we'd beat the **** out of y'all".

[Bothrops]

We played the whole game at a high tempo. The key is we made a lot of shots inside. I'm pleasantly surprised

[Vandownbytheriver]

I'm not gonna lie, win tomorrow and he gets a pass on the entire year. I think most fans would feel the same way given the circumstances.

[Brad Stevens]

That was a flash of what we COULD be next season (with much more depth added). I enjoyed that. Now, I hope we make a run and come out firing tomorrow.

[TopDog58]

I liked the lineup and the effort to start the 2nd half. Then, with IJ Ready dishing the ball like Isaiah Thomas, we pull him out. We also put in Borchert and his lack of defense and rebounding helped Vandy shave the lead down considerably. Seeing the explosiveness of that IJ, Fred, Chicken, Roq and Ware lineup gives us some hope for next year. With depth at the 4 and 5, Roq and Fred at the 3 and some improved guard play we could see some noticeable improvement and competitiveness next year.

[engie]

The key to me is that we kept Ware out of foul trouble -- and I'm not sure he subbed out of that game at all tonight. If he did, it was for very short periods of time. We're an entirely different team when we have a legitimate post presence inside that isn't in constant limbo with foul trouble. Amazing how much better the defense and rebounding was, isn't it?

We outshot them, out 3'd them, out freethrowed them, outrebounded them, outstole them, outassisted them, had the same number of turnovers, and had fewer personal fouls. All they did better than us all night was 3 to 1 on blocks...

[Political Hack]

I'm not gonna lie, win tomorrow and he gets a pass on the entire year. I think most fans would feel the same way given the circumstances.

tend to agree... this season has been over for a while. Making something out of nothing will get him some brownie points headed into next season.

[whosyourdawgy]

Seriously.

ETA: It's coming into focus now.

Daniels was Ray's fault - http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?13815-Look-Ray-could-have-played-Daniels-this-year-and-won-6-8-SEC-games&p=146630#post146630

Williams only won because of Stansbury - http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?13828-MSU-basketball-season-stats-brought-to-you-by-Coach-34-and-Rick-Ray&p=146539#post146539

Arguing with stats showing this team is improved over last year - http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?13678-Is-this-basketball-team-improved&p=144734#post144734

The "apathy, no tickets" argument - http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?13661-So-there-s-another-Stansbury-Transfer-lighting-the-world-on-fire&p=144729#post144729


Glad you are keeping a file of my posts. And I stand by every one of those too.

1. Daniels not qualifying was complete and total bullshit and Ray has to be held accountable for that. It's his and his staffs jobs to find players to play and fill needs. They didn't do that worth a flying F#*K last year. They screwed the pooch on this plain and simple. They did however do the right thing and redshirt him after he got eligible in January.
2. And I posted that was it a coincidence that Williams started winning more when Stans was an assistant. Is that false? I didn't say Williams only won because of Stans. EVER
3. Your stats on us being better this season was just ****ing stupid and my link shows we sucked ass. We lost 13 games in a row and not many were every in doubt!
4. And I know of 3 families that haven't been to a game this season that used to go to EVERY home game. This is a FACT that you like to show. Apathy in our program is at an ALL TIME high regardless of what any of you say. I truly hope Ray can turn this around. I love basketball and love coming to the Hump to watch good basketball. We did not see that this season, and attendance proves that.
5. Oh, and Jabary Davis does SUCK regardless of what any of you say here. It's not his knee injury. It's him.

Now, the hustle is always there. We played lights out tonight and I watched and cheered the entire game except when Davis came in for his few minutes and ****ed up over and over and then went back to the bench. We ran great offense, got easy buckets, knocked down open shots, and for the most part played solid D. Still gave up too many easy buckets and wide open 3's but much better. We do have a good nucleus coming back with the players we have
1. Craig Sword is UNREAL driving to the basket. Probably one of the best penetraters we have ever had. If he can get a 12-15 foot jump shot and a little more maturity and composure, he will be all SEC his junior and senior seasons.
2. Fred Thomas has always been one that I wanted the light to come on. I watched him a few games his senior year in high school and was excited he was going to be a Bulldog. These last few games, he has shown why. He needs to stay like this game next season for us to improve as much as we want.
3. Gavin Ware probably played his best game of the season tonight and showed us what he can do. He was a beast. Same with him as Sword. Another year of maturity and composure will be interesting to see with him
4. Bloodman, as I have said a bunch, is our most improved player to me. He isn't much of a shooter. But he takes care of the ball, plays solid D, and makes mostly good things happen.
5. IJ Ready has matured a bunch since the season started. Hopefully next year the injury bug will leave him alone. Our pg position will be a solid 2 deep.
6. Roq Johnson is a love/hate with me. He played very good tonight, but still had some bonehead plays. Hopefully he gets the maturity/composure thing too next season. He will be much better just because he will be able to play his position next season with more interior depth(hopefully)

With Daniels, Ndoye, Black, Houston, and Dunlap coming in and hopefully at least one more, this team will be better. I have never said I didn't like Ray. In fact I do and I want MSU basketball to be relevant just as much as anybody on this board. If Ray can do it, great. I like the man. He's as honest as they come. Doesn't sugar coat anything and tells it straight up.

I still can't believe Engie has my posts bookmarked. For the most part I've always agreed with you man. Just not when it has come to this basketball season.

[Coach34]

there are a helluva lot more posts than those bookmarked ready to be used next year I can assure you

[whosyourdawgy]

there are a helluva lot more posts than those bookmarked ready to be used next year I can assure you

Glad to hear it. I will gladly eat crow if we can become relevant again. I freaking hate losing in basketball.

[mic]

It amazes me that the posters that have been BLASTING us for the past 14 games haven't been heard from this entire thread.. Not even a sarcastic "good win where has that been all year"...
Like I have said and it now shows that had rather have Rick Ray fail than Miss. State actually win.
Really sad and pathetic..
And if we can limit turnovers and Chicken stay out of foul trouble we have a really good shot tomorrow night.. because RR can and prob will out coach AK...

[mic]

Glad to hear it. I will gladly eat crow if we can become relevant again. I freaking hate losing in basketball.

At least you showed up ...

[Brad Stevens]

I agree, mic. Can we not get a "good game, Dawgs" from our fellow State fans? It is telling to me that they disappear when we win. Hmmm....

[Coach34]

It amazes me that the posters that have been BLASTING us for the past 14 games haven't been heard from this entire thread.. Not even a sarcastic "good win where has that been all year"...
Like I have said and it now shows that had rather have Rick Ray fail than Miss. State actually win.
Really sad and pathetic.

Are you really surprised by this?

And it's my fault tcdawg70 isnt around (not that he would be anyway)- I gave him a weeks vacay

[engie]

I still can't believe Engie has my posts bookmarked. For the most part I've always agreed with you man. Just not when it has come to this basketball season.

I don't have your posts bookmarked -- I clicked your name, clicked "view recent posts", and went thru only the first 2 pages. I did this only because you seemed angry that we were playing well tonight. And in those posts, it was an awful lot of pro-Stans, anti-Ray stuff. If I misunderstood your position, my apologies...

That said, the vast majority of the common sense in the fanbase is going to agree with my position -- in that this was always a rebuilding year which was largely outside of Ray's control and next year is when the marbles are on the table. People that were ready to fire him 3 hours ago are either incredibly shortsighted -- or have just let emotion override their logic. Is there reason to be upset about how the end of this year went? Sure. No problem with that from posters -- and alot of guys I have alot of respect for fall into that category -- and I do myself at times. It's the attempts to apply it to some grand scheme and bigger picture that I've got an issue with.

At any rate, at least you are man enough to show up and discuss it like any fan that "just wants what's best for the program" would do, and for that, I have respect...

[whosyourdawgy]

I don't have your posts bookmarked -- I clicked your name, clicked "view recent posts", and went thru only the first 2 pages. I did this only because you seemed angry that we were playing well tonight. And in those posts, it was an awful lot of pro-Stans, anti-Ray stuff. If I misunderstood your position, my apologies...

That said, the vast majority of the common sense in the fanbase is going to agree with my position -- in that this was always a rebuilding year which was largely outside of Ray's control and next year is when the marbles are on the table. People that were ready to fire him 3 hours ago are either incredibly shortsighted -- or have just let emotion override their logic. Is there reason to be upset about how the end of this year went? Sure. No problem with that from posters -- and alot of guys I have alot of respect for fall into that category -- and I do myself at times. It's the attempts to apply it to some grand scheme and bigger picture that I've got an issue with.

At any rate, at least you are man enough to show up and discuss it like any fan that "just wants what's best for the program" would do, and for that, I have respect...

I didn't think I was being negative except for the Davis posts. And they are definitely negative. The 70 percent shooting post was meant as a joke. Hell, if we shot 70 percent all season, we would've won a lot more games. Fred played with so much confidence tonight and his shot showed it. I knew he could shoot by watching him in high school. Had no idea what the Hell happened to him and his shot, but glad the sit down by Ray woke up whatever was wrong. We need FTF to be this next season!

[Brad Stevens]

I think a win tomorrow could do wonders for our team morale and confidence going into the offseason. Man I hope we can string a victory together somehow tomorrow.

[Coach34]

would be huge

[mic]

I think a win tomorrow could do wonders for our team morale and confidence going into the offseason. Man I hope we can string a victory together somehow tomorrow.

I agree.. Limit turnovers and keep Ware and Chicken out of foul trouble.. I predict a big game from Borchart tomorrow night..

[MarketingBully01]

there are a helluva lot more posts than those bookmarked ready to be used next year I can assure you

And I am sure you will bring up my posts too if we are successful next year. I hope we are. I will gladly eat crow if we are successful. Great win tonight and it was a good game plan. I hope that we can win tomorrow. Coach Ray will get a pass from me this year if we can somehow beat Ole Miss 13 game losing streak and all. Hope we can ride this wave all the way to at least the semis. :). I want MSU basketball to be relevant again because it's my favorite sport.

[msstate7]

Regardless what happens against OM, this was a huge win for ray and the team. This team needed to end the losing streak going info the offseason and they did it.

[smootness]

Regardless what happens against OM, this was a huge win for ray and the team. This team needed to end the losing streak going info the offseason and they did it.

Yep. It's good for Ray to have something to point to in order to keep everyone positive. Now he can legitimately say, 'That is what you guys can be next year,' and hopefully get guys to fully buy in. Not that they haven't bought in yet, just that it's tough to continue selling that message if all you see are big losses.

[Dawg61]

Sorry boys you didn't get your enjoyment from me showing up last night in this thread. I had a fantasy baseball draft. I did watch the game and DVR'd it too and have watched a second time. Nice win for sure. We had the most energy I've seen all season. Not sure why because it was the same time off from every week of SEC play but whatever it is they did they need to do that every day. Some very nice passes by Sword and Glass (who was hurt again sigh). Fred Thomas isn't even the same player since he got benched. I no longer want him cut. Roq Johnson is so quick and I really like him offensively. Nice win again and hope we can make it two in a row tonight. If we beat OM we get lucky and get Georgia. We can beat both of those teams if we play like we did last night. One win doesn't make this season ok though. This just shows me we could have been playing like this all year. We shot the ball rididcously well. Good win.

[C222]

Sorry boys you didn't get your enjoyment from me showing up last night in this thread. I had a fantasy baseball draft. I did watch the game and DVR'd it too and have watched a second time. Nice win for sure. We had the most energy I've seen all season. Not sure why because it was the same time off from every week of SEC play but whatever it is they did they need to do that every day. Some very nice passes by Sword and Glass (who was hurt again sigh). Fred Thomas isn't even the same player since he got benched. I no longer want him cut. Roq Johnson is so quick and I really like him offensively. Nice win again and hope we can make it two in a row tonight. If we beat OM we get lucky and get Georgia. We can beat both of those teams if we play like we did last night. One win doesn't make this season ok though. This just shows me we could have been playing like this all year. We shot the ball rididcously well. Good win.

Oh, thank God. I was getting worried Ray would read this board and take your advice like he does on all your other suggestions.

[SignalToNoise]

Pleasantly surprised by this win. Had already written it off as a loss in the "Caption the pic" thread that I started.

[Political Hack]

most posters who are MIA probably didn't realize we won until today.

It's called apathy. no one gives a shit anymore. Did you see that capacity crowd on hand in Atlanta last night to watch the Dawgs and the Commodores? I know people that have been every year for years, some for over a decade straight, that don't bother going to the SEC tournament anymore.

All that said about the lack of celebrating our first win in 14 attempts, it was a GREAT win. it shows what this team is capable of and why we should've been pissed all year that we weren't seeing more on the floor. Where has that been? Chicken and Ware step up like gangbusters and play the best games of their career. FTF is now a composed grizzly vet over night??? All out of thin air, at the same time. That capability has been there all season and I haven't seen it until last night. If Ray can get that out of them consistently, we can be a pretty damn good team next season in league play... and at that point, maybe people will start supporting the program again like the used to.

[smootness]

I no longer want him cut.

But this is exactly why we all called you crazy for ever wanting him cut. You don't say, 'This true sophomore, who had to take on a big role before he was ready, has been struggling. Cut him,' precisely because there is still plenty of time for him to improve, mature, and become a quality player, especially given the kind of talent we all know he has.

How many Chad Girodo's and Hunter Renfroe's and Fred Thomas' does it take for people to realize that sometimes college kids have to develop before they become big-time players?

[smootness]

most posters who are MIA probably didn't realize we won until today.

It's called apathy. no one gives a shit anymore.

Ha, please. The apathetic posters are the ones who rarely post regardless. But you know, as well as I do, that if we had lost the Ray-bashers would have all been here screaming about it...meaning they absolutely watched. They just didn't like the result.

Guys like Raytoraid, RICKRAYMADE, etc. are constantly posting during bad losses. The reason they didn't post is because they were upset we played well and won. Period.

[Political Hack]

I don't think anyone gets upset when we win. That's the whole point, right? In not convinced Ray is the right guy yet but he'll get next year to prove it and possibly a fourth. If we're giving him next season we may as well give him a fourth because it won't turn around next year. Attendance and talent won't be what it could under him because the first two years have been mismanaged miserably. If he can straighten the ship next year that'll be great. The question becomes when do we say "tournament or bust" for him? Year 4? Year 5?

[smootness]

I don't think anyone gets upset when we win. That's the whole point, right? In not convinced Ray is the right guy yet but he'll get next year to prove it and possibly a fourth. If we're giving him next season we may as well give him a fourth because it won't turn around next year. Attendance and talent won't be what it could under him because the first two years have been mismanaged miserably. If he can straighten the ship next year that'll be great. The question becomes when do we say "tournament or bust" for him? Year 4? Year 5?

I do. I think they ultimately want our program to be a good one, I'm not really questioning that. But I absolutely believe there are some who have made up their mind on Ray and actually want us to lose to a) get Ray out as quickly as possible; and b) make themselves right.

What other explanation is there for the fact that there are some posters who post non-stop when we're getting killed, and seem to be rubbing in people's faces, and then completely disappear when we win and play really well? Obviously they must be upset in some way that we won.

I still don't get how we've been 'miserably mismanaged'. I understand those that are still unsure on Ray - I think everyone is in that boat, honestly - but I don't think we've been mismanaged at all.

I've seen people say it's 'inexcusable' that he took someone like Daniels who he knew had a chance to not quality...or Ndoye who he knew might not get cleared. Why is that inexcusable? If you're looking at every year as a 'We have to win as many games as possible,' then I guess. But Ray is looking long-term, and he knew that he would get Daniels and Ndoye, he just wasn't 100% sure we'd have them this year. Well, we will have them, and we'll have them for just as long as we ever were going to, they were just delayed a year. What is the problem with that? This year was never going to be a great year, and it is in the best interests for the program long-term to have someone the HC believes is a player, even if that means we have an open roster spot for a year, than to reach for someone subpar at the end of the process just to fill that roster spot. I don't see that as mismanagement at all; I actually see it as good management.

I think the mismanagement would have been to say, 'Well, Ndoye might not make it, so let's take Geno because he'll play next year'. When 3 years down the road Ndoye is playing really well for another program and Geno is a role player, who cares whether or not they got on the court year one, especially for a program in our current state?

I have yet to be convinced Ray has mismanaged anything so far. And I say, 'tournament or bust' by year 5. That may seem crazy to some, but that doesn't mean that I'm giving him 5 years no matter what. We need to see significant improvement over the next couple of years, but assuming we do see that, I'm not going to say he has to go if we just miss the Tournament in year 4.

[Political Hack]

it's roster issues that I'm referring to, and some on the court fundamental stuff but mostly the roster. You can't allow your team to be put in a position where you have that many open scholarships. I just don't think the roster management could've been much worse to be honest. People can blame kids smoking weed, or transferring, or whatever but that all fas back on the captain of the ship. if you can't keep your players in the boat, there's a problem. maybe these guys will stick it out and we'll add some more. they played their guts out last night and I seriously have not been more proud of an MSU team many times in my life. If they can keep that effort going , Ray will quickly turn me into a believer.

[Coach34]

I know damn well we have posters that get pissed when we win

[Political Hack]

I know damn well we have posters that get pissed when we win

Do you speak from experience?

[CadaverDawg]

Do you speak from experience?

Zzzzzzing!

[Coach34]

Do you speak from experience?

No- it was always win-win for me. When we won- great. When we lost, I got to troll all the Stands-Lovers which was great. So for me, it was like we never lost. It was always a winning proposition

[CadaverDawg]

No- it was always win-win for me. When we won- great. When we lost, I got to troll all the Stands-Lovers which was great. So for me, it was like we never lost. It was always a winning proposition

That is the most honest post you've ever made. Ha, perfect explanation.

[smootness]

it's roster issues that I'm referring to, and some on the court fundamental stuff but mostly the roster. You can't allow your team to be put in a position where you have that many open scholarships. I just don't think the roster management could've been much worse to be honest. People can blame kids smoking weed, or transferring, or whatever but that all fas back on the captain of the ship. if you can't keep your players in the boat, there's a problem. maybe these guys will stick it out and we'll add some more. they played their guts out last night and I seriously have not been more proud of an MSU team many times in my life. If they can keep that effort going , Ray will quickly turn me into a believer.

And I just don't think you can blame a new coach when he comes in and the guys left over from the old regime can't meet his standards. Once the roster is fully yours, sure, if there are too many guys who can't follow your rules then you didn't do a good enough job in recruiting. But at this point, you have to let some guys go if they aren't cooperating to let everyone know what your standards are.

And I couldn't care less about open scholarships these first two years. Starting next year, it's time to put a competent, full team on the floor. But the first two years were always going to be transitional years, so I just wanted us to do what it took to get ourselves in position to compete going forward. I think we've done that, but the jury is obviously still out on whether the success comes. But you just can't hurt your long-term chances at success by making short-term decisions this early in a rebuild. So I have no problem with any 'roster issues' so far.

[thf24]

it's roster issues that I'm referring to, and some on the court fundamental stuff but mostly the roster. You can't allow your team to be put in a position where you have that many open scholarships. I just don't think the roster management could've been much worse to be honest. People can blame kids smoking weed, or transferring, or whatever but that all fas back on the captain of the ship. if you can't keep your players in the boat, there's a problem. maybe these guys will stick it out and we'll add some more.

I see what you're saying, but even if you put the drugs and the Steele episode on Ray, we still lost all five starters less than two years ago, three of them by means other than graduation, and it was more or less unavoidable (disputable in the case of Hood, I'll concede). Besides immediately hurting both talent level and depth, that kind of exodus creates instability that makes the subsequent cuts or transfers hurt all the more. Combine that with the fact that Ray can't be reasonably expected to have recruited at the level we're used to before he has a chance to establish himself, and I don't see how our roster situation could have been managed a whole lot better.

Also, I don't like mentioning this because I don't want it to seem like I'm trying to bring Stansbury into this, but it's awfully hard in many cases to keep inherited players "in the boat" when they're used to a different personality, style, and set of rules at the helm, no matter who that was. Keeping certain players it seems like we should have held onto may have been impossible no matter who we brought in.

[BiscuitEater]

No- it was always win-win for me. When we won- great. When we lost, I got to troll all the Stands-Lovers which was great. So for me, it was like we never lost. It was always a winning proposition

Really, you actually felt like a "winning proposition" when State lost.

Think that this on ONE post you need to save ... 'cause it explains a lot about you as a <quote> fan <quote>

[MadDawg]

I know damn well we have posters that get pissed when we win

I know you got pissed every time Stansbury won a game his last 3-4 years, so yes I think it is very likely.

[Dawg61]

But this is exactly why we all called you crazy for ever wanting him cut. You don't say, 'This true sophomore, who had to take on a big role before he was ready, has been struggling. Cut him,' precisely because there is still plenty of time for him to improve, mature, and become a quality player, especially given the kind of talent we all know he has.

How many Chad Girodo's and Hunter Renfroe's and Fred Thomas' does it take for people to realize that sometimes college kids have to develop before they become big-time players?

I'm a believer that putting pressure on a player will result in them either stepping up or dropping out. I'll always believe that. As you can see Fred has responded since Ray benched him. Maybe Ray hears us maybe he doesn't.

[MarketingBully01]

That is the most honest post you've ever made. Ha, perfect explanation.

And the most hypocritical one. I guess a double standard is accepted here. So in other words, C34 doesn't want C34-like Ray posters here. Very interesting.

[yjnkdawg]

Cut him. And cut three other people. And bring in 4 BETTER PLAYERS. That's the recipe for success guys. That's what I've been told at least.

What four players have you determined to bring in?

[C222]

I'm a believer that putting pressure on a player will result in them either stepping up or dropping out. I'll always believe that. As you can see Fred has responded since Ray benched him. Maybe Ray hears us maybe he doesn't.

I can assure you, he doesn't.

And no, you aren't a believe in putting pressure on a player. You want freshmen or sophomores, who have yet to develop, to be cut.

[yjnkdawg]

Jabary Davis has got to be let go at the end of the season. He absolutely sucks ass! I would rather have Tyson in the game 100 percent of the time than for him to get a single damn minute. He can't defend, he can't dribble, he can't do shit! Oh, he can get a stupid ass obvious offensive foul for no freaking reason trying to just dribble down the court. Please let him transfer at the end of the season. PLEASE!!

I believe his name is Jacoby. FYI - Helped lead West Charlotte High School to a 28-2 record and the Noth Carolina 2011 Class 4A championship as a senior. Was an All-State performer as a junior and senior. He's a RS Freshman who had an ACL injury in 2012-2013 that sidelined him all of last year. How about gving the kid a break, maybe?

[Dawg61]

And no, you aren't a believe in putting pressure on a player. You want freshmen or sophomores, who have yet to develop, to be cut.
Don't ever speak for me. You aren't me. Fred had time to change my mind. He did and I'm glad he did. We are a better basketball team when he plays to his potential. The Fred Thomas before he got benched I'd cut.

[smootness]

I'm a believer that putting pressure on a player will result in them either stepping up or dropping out. I'll always believe that. As you can see Fred has responded since Ray benched him. Maybe Ray hears us maybe he doesn't.

What are you talking about? You wanted him to be cut, you didn't want 'pressure' applied to him. And you always try to excuse you being wrong constantly by claiming the coaches must have heard you and changed. It's getting hilarious.

[Dawg61]

What are you talking about? You wanted him to be cut, you didn't want 'pressure' applied to him. And you always try to excuse you being wrong constantly by claiming the coaches must have heard you and changed. It's getting hilarious.

How do you put pressure on a player Einstein? You threaten to pull their scholarship. Step up or drop out. Plain and simple. Fred stepped up. He stays. You don't wait till the end of the year to challenge the player. This board is filled with the whiny bitch personality and those that put up with losing. If you think I'm talking about you most likely I am.

[Brad Stevens]

What four players have you determined to bring in?

I believe he was being sarcastic toward Dawg61's posts in numerous other threads. Your question is still a valid one, but it should be addressed to Dawg61 and not Intramural All-American.

But don't worry -- 61 has done his homework via google search and has a long list of high-scoring JUCOs who can replace FTF and the gang (who would be cut by now if he was the coach).

[Dawg61]

Like Jarekious Bradley?

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/56380/jarekious-bradley

[smootness]

How do you put pressure on a player Einstein? You threaten to pull their scholarship. Step up or drop out. Plain and simple. Fred stepped up. He stays. You don't wait till the end of the year to challenge the player. This board is filled with the whiny bitch personality and those that put up with losing. If you think I'm talking about you most likely I am.

You just don't get it and probably never will. Threatening to pull struggling players' scholarships seems like a terrible way of going about getting college kids to buy in to what you're selling.

And Thomas didn't get benched because he wasn't making shots. You're advocating threatening someone's scholarship because he plays poorly for a stretch. It's crazy.

[Schultzy]

I've got under 146.5 for a thousand in the state/ole miss game tonight wish me luck.

[Brad Stevens]

I've got under 146.5 for a thousand in the state/ole miss game tonight wish me luck.

You're a brave man. We give up the most ppg in the SEC. I see it being a track meet. Whew - good luck

[Political Hack]

I've got under 146.5 for a thousand in the state/ole miss game tonight wish me luck.

that's solid if Marshall doesn't get hot.

[Dawg61]

You're a brave man. We give up the most ppg in the SEC. I see it being a track meet. Whew - good luck

Brave is putting it nicely. First game the total was 148. 2nd was 145.

[Coach34]

good luck chief