Everyone is focusing on the wrong things in this basketball debate......

[Goat Holder]

I see both sides make great points, but ultimately it seems to always come back to Stansbury vs. Ray, and that isn't fair to either of them. I saw a post about how the people that don't like Ray's progress so far are part of the entitlement culture (MetEdDawg)....and of course, Stansbury haters agreed and Stansbury lovers disagreed. That is a simple statement that does not encompass the whole problem. Coastdoglover also makes some good points in which, surprise surprise, the Stansbury haters disagreed and the Stansbury lovers agreed. It's a vicious cycle. Then people blame the fans for not showing up because we're losing, but that's not the whole problem. Whatever also makes a good point about maybe Stansbury needed more time similar to Osborne/Bowden, but anti-Stans people criticize him for his comparison (shaming because they had no other answer, at the same times in Osborne/Bowden's careers they were not coaching superstars either, so the comparison is VERY valid). Anyway, the point is that we're going off on tangeants without addressing the real issue.

The pro-Stansbury fans are frustrated because we fired a very successful coach and the successor's tenure has not been good so far. And judging by attendance, the anti-Stansbury fans are losing a little hope as well. It all adds up to a shitty situation. Did Scott Stricklin handle it well? We will find out next year I guess. But if I was Stricklin in 2012, the questions I ask are these:

- What is our ceiling at MSU?

- Who is the guy that I feel can get us there?

You cannot get to the 2nd question before you answer the first. But to me, the answer to the 1st question is the easy one. The national championship. We've knocked on that door before, so let's move on to the second question. Who is the guy that can get us there? Think long and hard about it, because that's how you decide which coach was best for what.

In 2012, how would you rank our list of available coaches? Where would Ray, Payne and Stans rank side by side? Answer that truthfully.

Anyway, that time is over and gone, but you still must always use the past to analyze yourself and learn from it. I think what you're seeing from fans is FRUSTRATION. Not hatred for Ray. Not entitlement culture. All based on what about half of our fans thought in 2012 (that Stans was the best we could do), and now, in 2014, what a bunch of the other half are starting to see in hindsight. No matter the reasons (transfers, whatever), Stans DID IN FACT earn us a #2 seed as a Top 8 team in the country. Another player or two here or there and he might could win the whole thing. Maybe another assistant here or there. We'll never know.

The ONLY way to right the ship is for Ray or anybody else to win his way out. It will not let up until he does that. So bottom line, let's quit acting like the people who aren't happy with the basketball program are just a bunch of ignorant, spoiled pricks. That's not true. A number of things have all equaled out to the state of the MSU basketball program right now.

[TheRef]

http://img.pandawhale.com/46440-Obama-Not-Bad-Rage-Face-Q9gf.jpeg

[Homedawg]

I'm not answering your question by why is- was, Kenny Payne the answer? He is the number 3 assistant at uk and at this point still hasn't gotten or taken another job. Maybe he's the best thing in America or the best we could have but I'm missin it I guess.

[Political Hack]

Payne badly wanted the job and would've brought sponsorships and talent with him that our program has never seen. Whether he can be a head coach was a complete gamble... as it also is with Ray.

To me, it's about becoming a regular fixture in the sweet 16. we should cap there and make some runs sometimes at better things, but we should see the sweet 16 every few years IMO. There are plenty of proven mid major head coaches that have done more with less than we have in several years. The hiring process was butchered. We need to assess where we are Ian's if we can bring in a better head coach today than we could two years ago. that's the only question that needs to be answered... ever... every year in every sport. Who will be the best solution to establish a long term solid successful program?

I've seen two coaches fail in the last three seasons in a sport I KNOW we can be successful in. That's incredibly frustrating.

[Brad Stevens]

Payne badly wanted the job and would've brought sponsorships and talent with him that our program has never seen. Whether he can be a head coach was a complete gamble... as it also is with Ray.

To me, it's about becoming a regular fixture in the sweet 16. we should cap there and make some runs sometimes at better things, but we should see the sweet 16 every few years IMO. There are plenty of proven mid major head coaches that have done more with less than we have in several years. The hiring process was butchered. We need to assess where we are Ian's if we can bring in a better head coach today than we could two years ago. that's the only question that needs to be answered... ever... every year in every sport. Who will be the best solution to establish a long term solid successful program?

I've seen two coaches fail in the last three seasons in a sport I KNOW we can be successful in. That's incredibly frustrating.

1) Explain "sponsorships" in a legal way and then explain how that's any different than Stansbury with less MS connections.
2) in order to answer your question of "Who will be the best solution to establish a long term solid successful program?" -- you must define the parameters of "long term." I think we both know 2 years isn't enough to judge long-term. We all want immediate success. This is America. We can hire 5 coaches every two years for the next ten years... Or we can be patient and see where we are in a year or two.

[Raytoraid83]

1) Explain "sponsorships" in a legal way and then explain how that's any different than Stansbury with less MS connections.
2) in order to answer your question of "Who will be the best solution to establish a long term solid successful program?" -- you must define the parameters of "long term." I think we both know 2 years isn't enough to judge long-term. We all want immediate success. This is America. We can hire 5 coaches every two years for the next ten years... Or we can be patient and see where we are in a year or two.

NIKE, world wide Wes, Dampier gonna be on staff. Of course all of those were just rumors so who knows which would of come true, but would've been interesting to see play out.

[Political Hack]

NIKE, world wide Wes, Dampier gonna be on staff. Of course all of those were just rumors so who knows which would of come true, but would've been interesting to see play out.

maybe he thought I was advocating something else? not sure why...

By sponsorship, I meant sponsors... like Nike and the Jordan logo on our uniforms.

and striving for long term success doesn't mean you have to suck for 10 years before you realize that you're not going to have long term success under the current regime.

[Brad Stevens]

maybe he thought I was advocating something else? not sure why...

By sponsorship, I meant sponsors... like Nike and the Jordan logo on our uniforms.

and striving for long term success doesn't mean you have to suck for 10 years before you realize that you're not going to have long term success under the current regime.

I am and will continue to be amazed how a swoosh or jumpman means anything. Talent unlike anything we have ever seen? This is extremely arrogant at best. If Kenny Payne has so much power, why has no other team swooped in for these benefits? I'm sure others are salivating for talent like they've never seen before.

What you really meant is someone would get their hands dirty and bring in good players (Kentucky leftovers) by whatever means necessary. Whether the man can coach at all means nothing to you. As seen from this season, or specifically last week's game between UF and Kentucky, I am unconvinced Calipari is a good on-floor coach. I have no reason to believe his 3rd assistant would be any different.

Lastly, remind me how the last two years magically turned into 10 for you? (For the record I am also unconvinced Ray is the answer, but I'm willing to be patient for the very long term option you seem to be advocating for.)

[C222]

"Talent unlike anything we have ever seen." Wow. No.

[Political Hack]

you can't win without talent. talent acquisition is a must. you can argue the means until you're blue in the face, but the end game is not debatable. you need talent to win.

I didnt mean to imply that the two years was ten. I meant to imply that you don't have to wait ten years to see if something is going to succeed long term. I feel confident that we don't have the right answer right now. With different assistants and few more classes, we may. I just don't see good fundamental basketball from SEC athletes right now, which concerns me.

[Brad Stevens]

I also think we must have talent to win. We simply disagree on the method. Either way, I hope we don't wait ten years before making a move, either. I thank you, sir, for your kind and well-thought out response.

[Goat Holder]

I did not say he was. Read my post closer....the answer to "Who was best" is obvious.

[Goat Holder]

you can't win without talent. talent acquisition is a must. you can argue the means until you're blue in the face, but the end game is not debatable. you need talent to win.
No truer statements have ever been made about college sports.

[Brad Stevens]

No truer statements have ever been made about college sports.

I also agree with this. However, removing myself from MSU from a minute, I would rather have the Florida-Gator-well-coached talent all day every day than the ya-never-know-what-you're- gonna-get Kentucky talent that is new each year. Again, I am not comparing Ray to Donavan, but I'm willing to try things differently than the way Kentucky does things. I would rather try 20 coaches before we go after a random UK coach who has "legal" connections.

[Coach34]

NIKE, world wide Wes, Dampier gonna be on staff. Of course all of those were just rumors so who knows which would of come true, but would've been interesting to see play out.

Nike wasnt going to happen- our administration was locked in with Addidas
WWW was indeed going to help Payne- that was true
Dampier was not going to coach initially but was mentioned as that being a possibility later. Webster was brought up though as a possibility.

[Raytoraid83]

I am and will continue to be amazed how a swoosh or jumpman means anything.

Take a poll of 17-18 yr old athletes is the south. I'd be willing to bet over 90% say Nike is their favorite brand.


you can't win without talent. talent acquisition is a must. you can argue the means until you're blue in the face, but the end game is not debatable. you need talent to win.


Yep you can argue all day on whether Paynes style of recruiting is a good thing, but you can guarantee it he would be participating in the Malik Newman sweepstakes.

[Political Hack]

I also think we must have talent to win. We simply disagree on the method. Either way, I hope we don't wait ten years before making a move, either. I thank you, sir, for your kind and well-thought out response.

contrary to popular belief, my beliefs are closer to yours than you might think. I do not believe paying kids to attend your school is a method for success. I think it causes more harm than good and brings in kids who don't really want to be there in the first place. you also end up having kids who feel entitled and are basically in a power position with the program... a little something our friends to the north are dealing with now.

[Goat Holder]

Neither of those two are bad options.

Everybody's down on Calipari right now, and it's insane. I'd bet $100 he wins the championship next year or gets close. May make a run this year. He's not as bad of a coach as people make him out to be.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

I think you are fooling yourself a little bit with the national championship ceiling. We made one final four almost twenty years ago. Is the ceiling for VCU or George Mason the NC too? You can say I have a losers mentality, but I just say im not lying to myself. I would be pretty happy with making the tournament 3 out of every 5 years and just being excited about college basketball in March again.

[Johnson85]

- What is our ceiling at MSU?



I think MSU's ceiling is the wrong thing to focus on in basketball. For basketball, we just need to focus on getting into the tourney consistently. If you do that, you will have some runs. Doesn't matter whether you get there by consistently putting well coached, even if less athletic teams on the floor or poorly coached teams with lots of natural skill.

[esplanade91]

Take a poll of 17-18 yr old athletes is the south. I'd be willing to bet over 90% say Nike is their favorite brand.



Yep you can argue all day on whether Paynes style of recruiting is a good thing, but you can guarantee it he would be participating in the Malik Newman sweepstakes.

Who cares what a kid's favorite brand is. Go to Starkville, stand on the drill field, and tell me what shoes our athletes are wearing. They're all wearing Nikes. No one is telling them they can't wear Nikes. A kid isn't going to pick us because we have Nike as a sponsor. Georgetown has Jordan and they have a hard time beating out less cool brands. I wish our fans got this through their heads.

I wanted Payne and I still want Payne and it has nothing to do with non-existent sponsorships. It's perception. Who cares if he was the 3rd coach on a bench that is so-so in Xs and Os. We hire Payne and the initial perception is we grab an assistant from a perennial powerhouse, a guy who is still considered one of the greatest Mississippi basketball players who has experience as a player and a coach winning titles. Everyone keeps saying long term fix, but sometimes the best long term fix is to bring in a guy for a short period. Everyone was ok with this idea with Mullen, but we can't bring in Payne to boost our talent pool? Worst case scenario we stay as bad as we are now, best case scenario he brings in 2nd round picks and bolts after 3-4 years for a better job. I want to emphasize the worst case scenario. There is no possible way MSU could be any worse than we are now.

ETA: I know some of you will say we could be worse by getting in trouble by continuing the AAU game and such, but this where we will disagree. I'm for it. Couldn't be more for it.

[Goat Holder]

Who, of the available coaches in 2012, would you have picked to be the one to do that, if your job depended on it?

[dickiedawg]

Consistent NCAA appearances is what I expect, and doing something in the tournament besides disappointing every once in a while. For 8 years from 2002-2009 we went to the NCAA tournament 6 times, including 4 in a row 02-05. That included an SEC Overall Championship. I was pleased with this stretch, though the continual let-down in the NCAAT was not ideal.

Bear in mind this was before the tournament expanded to 68 teams, so it should be even easier in today's landscape to achieve this level of success.

[dawgs]

i thought it was time for stansbury to go. he never got over the hump and the last 7 years of his career, he was never really more than a bubble team despite a weak sec/secw ripe for the taking. the issues that came to a head in the last 2 seasons just sealed his fate.

i'm also a rick ray skeptic. i don't judge rick ray against stansbury. i judge rick ray on the inability to find quality, qualified recruits and convince them to come to msu (recruiting) and on improving the team from year 1 to year 2 (on court performance).

[Goat Holder]

i thought it was time for stansbury to go.
I see this over and over. Change just for the sake of change. You only do this if you are bottom of the barrel, which we were definitely not. You can do this and hire a search firm when you're firing Croom or Nutt after a shitastic season. If you're going to hire a winner, you better have something lined up better if you want fans to buy in.

[Coach34]

I see this over and over. Change just for the sake of change. You only do this if you are bottom of the barrel, which we were definitely not. You can do this and hire a search firm when you're firing Croom or Nutt after a shitastic season. If you're going to hire a winner, you better have something lined up better if you want fans to buy in.

There was not change for the sake of change. There was change because the program had become embarrassing. Fights on TV in wifebeaters, broadcasters making fun of us, players ignoring Stands during time-outs, rampant drug use (the Deville Smith stories are disturbing), players calling out coaches on twitter, etc...and that does not even include all the shit behind the scenes that havent come out. Plus, the talent level that was left after 2012 we would have seen an obvious decline like we did in 2006 when we lost all 5 starters- except 2013 wouldnt have had 2 players anywhere as good as Gordon or Rhodes

There was no doubt that a change needed to be made. That cant be disputed. A program is about more than just wins and losses.

Now what is completely different from firing Stands- is hiring his replacement. That can be criticized and broken down on a few levels. You can make the wrong hire and we can suck for 5 more years- that still doesnt make firing Stands wrong.

[Goat Holder]

I think you can definitely criticize the firing of Stans after 2012 season. The whole 'resign and take a job with the AD' tells you that. You want to fire him after he embarrassed us in Hawaii? Do it then. We didn't have the balls. All the other stuff had gone on before, and we never pulled the trigger because we didn't have balls.

Then we do it in 2012, and no coach will touch us because they don't respect us. Your stuff about leaving no players in wrong because Hood would have been there, along with others. Give that up.

[Coach34]

Your stuff about leaving no players in wrong because Hood would have been there, along with others. Give that up.

Goat, I hate when you go full retard. But since you insist:

Ricky Hood, Rodney's father, who transferred from MSU to Murray State University more than 30 years ago, said his son made up his mind two months ago to transfer. He said the hiring of Ray had nothing to do with the decision.

Read more: http://cdispatch.com/sports/article.asp?aid=17665#ixzz2vi0Sytvk

[Coach34]

and remind me- who are these "other players"????

[tcdog70]

You've hit the bottom. Now you are quoting the old "Shit that happened behind the scenes " Such Bullshit, but you are a bullshit artist, so kudos to You. Wife beaters, might be a first , for getting a coach fired. shit how ****ing embarrassing we had players wearing wife beaters. The fight in the stands is the most overblown shit in the history of Basketball. Two teenagers fighting. Now if the had raped someone( u know like FSU' s Qb) or beat up some frat boy so bad he had to put in the hospital(like the kemmdiches) that would have been embarrassing. Please , use your vast message board vernacular to come up with another phrase than " Dumpster Fire"' it's old and worn ass out.

And maybe the worst yet, quoting the suxing Commercial Dispatch to back up your bullshit.

[C222]

You've hit the bottom. Now you are quoting the old "Shit that happened behind the scenes " Such Bullshit, but you are a bullshit artist, so kudos to You. Wife beaters, might be a first , for getting a coach fired. shit how ****ing embarrassing we had players wearing wife beaters. The fight in the stands is the most overblown shit in the history of Basketball. Two teenagers fighting. Now if the had raped someone( u know like FSU' s Qb) or beat up some frat boy so bad he had to put in the hospital(like the kemmdiches) that would have been embarrassing. Please , use your vast message board vernacular to come up with another phrase than " Dumpster Fire"' it's old and worn ass out.

And maybe the worst yet, quoting the suxing Commercial Dispatch to back up your bullshit.

Yeah, teammates fighting each other on national tv was way overblown.

[tcdog70]

Yeah, teammates fighting each other on national tv was way overblown.

Damn boy, you are ALITTLE slow, but I think you finally have it.

[Goat Holder]

Rejected. Get that shit outta here.

Of course they said that. They didn't want to sabotage Ray or MSU, because the Hoods are class people. So saying that is a Win/Win for Ray/MSU and the Hoods.

My proof: http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/05/mississippi-state-transfer-rodney-hood-adjusting-to-life-at-duke/


?It wasn?t like I just decided to leave [Mississippi State]. My coach left. I went to that school to play for that coach. When he left, I felt like a big part of me left, as far as the reason I went to the school.

That article came out WAY after the fact, so it's not PR like the statements the Hoods gave at the time of the transfer.

The other players were Steele and Lewis, to start. Then the whole recruiting class that Stans left behind, that are our best players now. Who knows who would have still been there. Stans may have gotten some JUCOs just like Ray did.

It's game over for you, on this 'players left behind' BS.

[Political Hack]

Deville is mentally ill. to blame that as a drug issue that's somehow Stan's fault is pretty far fetched.

[Political Hack]

but it was time for Stan's to go... and RickyRay is quickly headed the same way.

[Coach34]

Deville is mentally ill. to blame that as a drug issue that's somehow Stan's fault is pretty far fetched.

I understand that- and he had drug issues as well. And he wasnt the only one and you know it. Sidney didnt miss the trip to Europe to go see John Lucas for a twinkie disorder. And that is just two of them. Moultrie Knee? Shall I continue?

[Coach34]

You've hit the bottom. Now you are quoting the old "Shit that happened behind the scenes " Such Bullshit, but you are a bullshit artist, so kudos to You. Wife beaters, might be a first , for getting a coach fired. shit how ****ing embarrassing we had players wearing wife beaters. The fight in the stands is the most overblown shit in the history of Basketball. Two teenagers fighting. Now if the had raped someone( u know like FSU' s Qb) or beat up some frat boy so bad he had to put in the hospital(like the kemmdiches) that would have been embarrassing. Please , use your vast message board vernacular to come up with another phrase than " Dumpster Fire"' it's old and worn ass out.

And maybe the worst yet, quoting the suxing Commercial Dispatch to back up your bullshit.

The Fla State QB was not charged with anything...the Kimchee suit is definitely a problem. But I and everyone reading can see a nerve was touched here huh Meo?

And yeah, a college basketball team, that has clothes given to them by the school to wear as well as their own, are sitting in the stands representing our school in a wife-beater? Are you ****ing kidding me???? ******* Coffeeville HS and their 1,500.00 per year basketball budget doesnt do that shit. It embarrasses the school, the athletic department, the ****ing state, and the SEC.

[Coach34]

Rejected. Get that shit outta here.

Of course they said that. They didn't want to sabotage Ray or MSU, because the Hoods are class people. So saying that is a Win/Win for Ray/MSU and the Hoods.

My proof: http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/05/mississippi-state-transfer-rodney-hood-adjusting-to-life-at-duke/



That article came out WAY after the fact, so it's not PR like the statements the Hoods gave at the time of the transfer.

The other players were Steele and Lewis, to start. Then the whole recruiting class that Stans left behind, that are our best players now. Who knows who would have still been there. Stans may have gotten some JUCOs just like Ray did.

It's game over for you, on this 'players left behind' BS.

You're a ******* idiot. I really have no other reply than that. It would be pointless

[thf24]

I'm not anywhere close to being an insider, but no one needs to be to see that it was plain as day that (in hindsight) Hood and family had made up their minds to go as early as February of 2012. Anyone still trying to rationalize any outcome that involved him staying needs to wake the **** up.

Hell, he even tried to get out of playing for "his coach" before the '11-'12 season even started, before he'd even entered that disastrous locker room.

[Coach34]

I'm not anywhere close to being an insider, but no one needs to be to see that it was plain as day that Hood and family had made up their minds to go as early as February of 2012. Anyone still trying to rationalize any outcome that involved him staying needs to wake the **** up.

Hell, he even tried to get out of playing for "his coach" before the '11-'12 season even started, before he'd even entered that disastrous locker room.

oh yeahhhh- I had forgotten about that

[Goat Holder]

LOLOL....is that the best you can do? You just got friggin' roasted pal, and all you got is "You're a ******* idiot"?

The last decade you've been hating on this man, and it's all been for nothing.

[Coach34]

LOLOL....is that the best you can do? You just got friggin' roasted pal, and all you got is "You're a ******* idiot"?

The last decade you've been hating on this man, and it's all been for nothing.

No, I'm just not going to waste my time with it with you. Hood was gone no matter who the coach was. He tried to get out of coming to State after he signed with us, there's his famous quote "It was just a long, tough year for me", there were widespread rumors he was leaving after the season when Stands was still the coach and they had feelers out....But at the very worst, the very worst- you have people that have said something different every time they were interviewed. To say he would have been here for sure is just stupid- even for you.

Especially when I given you a direct quote from the man- and you say he is lying. a direct quote. from him

[tcdog70]

He hates Stansbury but is defender of the realm for Ray. On what Planet does that even make sense.

[Coach34]

He hates Stansbury but is defender of the realm for Ray. On what Planet does that even make sense.

I dont hate Stands and I just think Ray deserves a fair chance

[Goat Holder]

In case you missed it, I posted a direct quote from RODNEY HOOD, in a more relaxed state of mind, not the PR state of mind his dad was when he made that quote.

So is Rodney lying?

[Goat Holder]

He's got a lot riding on his hopes that Stans wasn't the best we could do. He's getting a little insecure in that notion at the moment.

[Coach34]

So is Rodney lying?

somebody is...

what good would it do Rodney to talk about how shitty it was during his year at State? Why talk about all the problems? You could just make it easy and say "my coach left"

[dawgs]

I see this over and over. Change just for the sake of change. You only do this if you are bottom of the barrel, which we were definitely not. You can do this and hire a search firm when you're firing Croom or Nutt after a shitastic season. If you're going to hire a winner, you better have something lined up better if you want fans to buy in.

it wasn't change for the sake of change. we had stalled as a program and the lockerroom issues were worse than ever before the last 2 years. when a coach is at a program 10+ years, 95+% of them are going to start burning out pretty soon and their message is going to start falling on deaf ears. it's pretty clear that's what happened with stans. towards the end, we weren't playing with the same energy on D, we weren't rebounding as well, we weren't creatively changing Ds to trigger runs and confuse offenses, etc.

i understand making a change is a boom or bust situation, and we are definitely busting right now, my only argument with some posters is when it's fair to start questioning whether a coach is the one to lead us back to relevancy. i really started around mid-february this year. some think next season is the more apt time to fairly start questioning him.

[Johnson85]

He hates Stansbury but is defender of the realm for Ray. On what Planet does that even make sense.

Well, people are jumping on Ray way too early. Granted Ray hasn't done anything yet to make it look like he's the answer, but other than being a pessimist, there's no reason to write him off yet as many have done. Most coaches, whether they're the answer or not, would be in roughly the same place right now.

[RougeDawg]

I dont hate Stands and I just think Ray deserves a fair chance

He's had his fair chance and can't even fill up his allotment of scholarships. Sounds like a MEAC or SWAC program to me. Major red flag if you only has 75% schollys filled in a major conference. Secondly, this team is digressing and losing faith. I don't need much more of thia body of work to know where this ship is headed, unless there is an act of God in the next 9-12 months in the Humphrey Colesium in Starkville.

ETA: what are we paying Ray a year for his fine accomplishments? I know it was time for RS to go but why wouldn't we pony up for a big time coach when we have more $ now than we've ever dreamed of? Stricklin shit the bed with this one and needs to save face, sooner than later and pony up before the program is on life support, and they're giving away free season tickets.

[shannondawg]

Very entertaining that's for sure. To condemm players and the coach for letting them wear summer clothes in Hawaii in what could be an un airconditioned gym is stretching it somewhat eh Coach? Wanting them to wear their warm ups is carrying it a little far for that Island retreat...

Think you boys are getting to old Coach!!! He's digging at the bottom of the barrel now...

[Goat Holder]

and they're giving away free season tickets.
Regardless of the reason, this is going to happen next year if we don't win tonight and tomorrow to give the fanbase some hope. All this "life support" junk is garbage, a good coach will be able to come in and clean up quickly. Maybe Ray gets it together next year, hopefully he does.

[tcdog70]

Very entertaining that's for sure. To condemm players and the coach for letting them wear summer clothes in Hawaii in what could be an un airconditioned gym is stretching it somewhat eh Coach? Wanting them to wear their warm ups is carrying it a little far for that Island retreat...

Think you boys are getting to old Coach!!! He's digging at the bottom of the barrel now...

it was in Hawaii, I've seen Coaches wear flowered shirts on the sideline. If two teenagers getting into a fight blows your mind you are a sheltered dude. Hell, Reb Coach beats the Cab driver, is that not more embarassing? Last I looked he is still the HC. 34 has been so wrong on his bullshit that he is just appalled at kids that wear a tank top. My God the shame of that, not a ****ing tank top! heaven forbid if we had a player wear white after Labor Day, 34 would shit.

[Dawg61]

MSU has given Ray $2 million dollars. $2 MILLIONNNNNNN DOLLARS. We don't owe him shit. This train is already wrecked. Why do y'all insist on watching it any longer? Again, $2 MILLION. That's more than most people make in their lifetime. He gutted out the program and he got $2 million dollars to do it. Next year it'll be $3 million. Then $4 million. That's a lot of gawd damn money for the WORST Power6 basketball program in the nation.

[thf24]

it was in Hawaii, I've seen Coaches wear flowered shirts on the sideline. If two teenagers getting into a fight blows your mind you are a sheltered dude. Hell, Reb Coach beats the Cab driver, is that not more embarassing? Last I looked he is still the HC. 34 has been so wrong on his bullshit that he is just appalled at kids that wear a tank top. My God the shame of that, not a ****ing tank top! heaven forbid if we had a player wear white after Labor Day, 34 would shit.

The fight was ALL OVER ESPN. I think I even saw it mentioned on CBS News. IT IS NOT REMOTELY NORMAL FOR COLLEGIATE ATHLETES ON THE SAME TEAM TO BRAWL IN PUBLIC. The wife beaters? Yeah, big deal, wasn't the first time college athletes dressed that way, wasn't the last. But the fight was NOT NORMAL. It is delusional beyond anything any of the Stansbury critics you so look down on ever said to believe that. We were a national laughingstock for months because of that fight. Sports media anchors were cracking jokes about us on daytime news, and I STILL hear SEC-fan friends and coworkers mention that fight when MSU basketball comes up. Nope, the first thing that comes to many outsiders' minds when MSU basketball is mentioned isn't how bad our current team is, or how bad Ray is, or how good Stansbury was; no, it's that damn fight. You can choose to believe whatever you want, but the fact is the fight was a big deal and it was absolutely an indicator of the state of our program. That isn't intended to be anti-Stansbury, pro-Ray, whatever; it's just fact. You can continue telling yourself that fight was absolutely normal if you insist, but I would stop trying to use it in your pro-past arguments because it makes you sound ridiculous.

[Coach34]

. 34 has been so wrong on his bullshit that he is just appalled at kids that wear a tank top.

What exactly have I been wrong about?

[HoopsDawg]

What exactly have I been wrong about?

I guess he is referring to your 8 year, 1 man mission to get Stansbury fired for the betterment of the program.

[tcdog70]

What exactly have I been wrong about?

alot easier for you to tell us what have you been right about?

[drunkernhelldawg]

The fight was ALL OVER ESPN. I think I even saw it mentioned on CBS News. IT IS NOT REMOTELY NORMAL FOR COLLEGIATE ATHLETES ON THE SAME TEAM TO BRAWL IN PUBLIC. The wife beaters? Yeah, big deal, wasn't the first time college athletes dressed that way, wasn't the last. But the fight was NOT NORMAL. It is delusional beyond anything any of the Stansbury critics you so look down on ever said to believe that. We were a national laughingstock for months because of that fight. Sports media anchors were cracking jokes about us on daytime news, and I STILL hear SEC-fan friends and coworkers mention that fight when MSU basketball comes up. Nope, the first thing that comes to many outsiders' minds when MSU basketball is mentioned isn't how bad our current team is, or how bad Ray is, or how good Stansbury was; no, it's that damn fight. You can choose to believe whatever you want, but the fact is the fight was a big deal and it was absolutely an indicator of the state of our program. That isn't intended to be anti-Stansbury, pro-Ray, whatever; it's just fact. You can continue telling yourself that fight was absolutely normal if you insist, but I would stop trying to use it in your pro-past arguments because it makes you sound ridiculous.

Sanctimony is not an admirable trait. So what if people still mention the fight? How is that hurting us? How does that even matter? What's hurting us is not the fight; it's the fact that we had the best basketball program in the state and we tossed it to the curb like garbage. It's like we've bottled a fart in a windstorm so that we can enjoy its unique flavor forever. It's appropriate that this post ends with the word "ridiculous," which is what this reaction to the fight is. To use this as a reason to fire the most successful head coach in MSU history is not terribly smart in my view. It's like we let the little old ladies take over the bar. No drinking until 5.

[Coach34]

alot easier for you to tell us what have you been right about?

That's what I thought- just throwing shit out there as usual with nothing to back it up

[Dawg61]

I've probably talked/asked a hundred people about that fight and maybe two of them remember it. We got saved by it being over the Christmas break and in Hawaii. It wasn't Ron Artest going into the stands in Indy bad. Everyone remembers that incident and the player. 99% of the college basketball world DOES NOT remember that it was MSU players fighting in Hawaii. It's long been removed in the average fans mind. Let. It. Go.

[Coach34]

Why are ya'll harping on the fight? There has been alot of other shit mentioned as well.

Rampant drug use
Players calling out coaches on twitter
Players ignoring Stands during time-outs
Being made fun of by national broadcasters

"The most dysfunctional program in America"

[Goat Holder]

I proved you wrong on Rodney Hood.

[Goat Holder]

"The most dysfunctional winning program in America"

Fixed that for you.

[Coach34]

I proved you wrong on Rodney Hood.

No- no you didnt