Look, Ray could have played Daniels this year and won 6-8 SEC games

[Coach34]

We would have been a much better team with Daniels and Ware inside during SEC play- with Borchert coming off the bench. Roq could have played the 3 some- and we could have actually had a big line-up out there in some games to match other teams. But Ray didnt do that- why?

Because what is best for the long term health of the program- win 3-4 more games this season? Or have Daniels and Ware playing together for the next 2 full seasons? Program building is never easy. But he made the right decision and we'll start seeing the benefits next year

2015 is on Ray and we'll see if he delivers

[HailState39110]

I'm actually excited about next year. No more excuses, a full roster, Ray needing to show major improvement, etc. I also can't wait to see how our non conference schedule will look to see if its more challenging or the powder puff non conference schedule we played this year. All of those things combined will make for an interesting year.

[MarketingBully01]

Whatever Coach....you guys make him sound like the second coming of Jones and Hood. Name the teams we would have beaten if we added Daniels.

[smootness]

Daniels isn't some huge stud, but he should be a legitimate SEC player. Sword and Ware have the chance to be above-average SEC players next year if they continue to improve. If we can get a couple more players to progress into that 'legitimate' territory, we should be competitive. We'll see. I'm excited, too.

[MetEdDawg]

Both home games against Arkansas and Tennessee. Only lost those by 4 and 7 points. Think you could make a case for @Vandy only losing by 6 and only scoring 49 points. There's three right there.

[missouridawg]

Both home games against Arkansas and Tennessee. Only lost those by 4 and 7 points. Think you could make a case for @Vandy only losing by 6 and only scoring 49 points. There's three right there.

Yesterday's game against USCe too.

[MetEdDawg]

Yesterday's game against USCe too.

Agreed. By now we have dead legs. Not enough solid basketball bodies, guys having to play out of position, guys having to play too many minutes. He certainly could have helped that. But I think we did the right thing in not playing him. Two full years of him and Ware together, plus adding Black next year and getting N'Doye in will give us significantly more depth in the post.

[smootness]

I wish we could all just have a rational discussion about the basketball program. The reality is, no one likes where the program is right now. Just because people want to give Ray more time doesn't mean we accept where we are. And just because others think it's time to move on doesn't mean they're just trolling.

The question is, why are we where we are; and what is the best course of action to get us back to where we want to be? Personally, I don't think it's Ray's fault that we are where we are, and I still think there's a chance he is the guy to get us back.

People need to remember that this year didn't really go as planned for him, either. Ideally, we would have had Quantel Denson and Travis Daniels, two guys who could have come in and given us some legitimate size, talent, and scoring ability, and Ndoye to take some of the load off Ware. And going after Denson proves that Ray isn't afraid to go get talent that may have some baggage - he just requires you to follow his rules, and if you can't, you're gone.

But add those 3 guys to this team and suddenly we're actually competitive. But instead of those 3 guys, we had none of them, and then Ready was constantly having to battle through issues.

Sure, obviously if every year becomes, 'Things didn't go as planned,' then it's not an excuse anymore and it means there's an underlying issue. But Daniels and Ndoye are still around, and we'll get a much better picture next year of the kind of talent Ray is bringing in and of his ability to coach guys up. Let's just see how it goes.

[Intramural All-American]

I just hope next year Stansbury's name is not brought up. Next year is completely on Ray in my mind. It's time for him to be held accountable and to show progress. The Stansbury back and forth needs to end.

[HoopsDawg]

Yesterday's game against USCe too.

Man, I feel better about this season now after all these hypothetical wins.

[MarketingBully01]

I agree to an extent with what you are saying Smoot, however with how he recruited he was not recruiting like his job depended on it. Also, shouldn't he of laid off certain players if there was a chance they wouldn't make it here? He had three players that weren't even available in this year's recruiting class. He should have recruited at least three players that he knew would make it to campus and take 1 risk player. He basically took all risk players except Ready and it burned him. He could have used one of those scholarships on KPG and that kid from Piney Woods who went to Ole Miss instead of Daniels and Ndioye and we would have been a better team overall IMO. Instead, we are 7-29 in a very very weak SEC. I just hope all of these risk kids he recruited in his second recruiting class are worth it because he bet a considerable lot on them.

[Coach34]

Yesterday's game against USCe too.

and every game in which we got into foul trouble early and had to play Roq at the 5- allowing teams to go on runs and just kill us inside. Having another big body would have been huge- especially one that is as good as Ware or better.

[BeastMan]

I just hope next year Stansbury's name is not brought up. Next year is completely on Ray in my mind. It's time for him to be held accountable and to show progress. The Stansbury back and forth needs to end.

Amen

[Coach34]

I just hope next year Stansbury's name is not brought up. Next year is completely on Ray in my mind. It's time for him to be held accountable and to show progress. The Stansbury back and forth needs to end.

Next year is all Ray. Nobody has ever said different

[shannondawg]

Believe it when I see it.

[smootness]

I agree to an extent with what you are saying Smoot, however with how he recruited he was not recruiting like his job depended on it. Also, shouldn't he of laid off certain players if there was a chance they wouldn't make it here? He had three players that weren't even available in this year's recruiting class. He should have recruited at least three players that he knew would make it to campus and take 1 risk player. He basically took all risk players except Ready and it burned him. He could have used one of those scholarships on KPG and that kid from Piney Woods who went to Ole Miss instead of Daniels and Ndioye and we would have been a better team overall IMO. Instead, we are 7-29 in a very very weak SEC. I just hope all of these risk kids he recruited in his second recruiting class are worth it because he bet a considerable lot on them.

Don't you realize this is shortsighted, though? If Daniels and Ndoye are better in years 2-4 (I know Daniels will only be here for the first two of those) than Geno, then taking Geno would have been a huge mistake. This year wasn't going to matter anyway; it's not like we were going dancing if we had brought in guys who had a better chance to play last year, and clearly we would have been taking less talent...or at least guys further down our board by doing that.

And I don't understand the 'not recruiting like his job depended on it'. We hired him to build the program from the ground up. If we had told him going into year 2 that he better find some band-aids to patch things up because we were going to judge him on this year, then that would have been a botched hire. In order to allow a coach to truly build a program the way he wants to, you have to give him freedom to make decisions that are better for the long-term but may sting a little more in the short-term.

[Coach34]

Exactly Smoot and that's the whole point. Ray was told not to go quick-fix but to build the damn program. He's doing what he was hired to do for the most part- now we just have to start winning more games next year

[tcdog70]

I just hope next year Stansbury's name is not brought up. Next year is completely on Ray in my mind. It's time for him to be held accountable and to show progress. The Stansbury back and forth needs to end.
Good post. It Is Rick Ray all the time.

[tcdog70]

Exactly Smoot and that's the whole point. Ray was told not to go quick-fix but to build the damn program. He's doing what he was hired to do for the most part- now we just have to start winning more games next year
I'm sure they didn't mean go out and have the worst two seasons in MSU history. And while you are at it finish last or next to last in every statistic but steals.

[MadDawg]

I just hope next year Stansbury's name is not brought up. Next year is completely on Ray in my mind. It's time for him to be held accountable and to show progress. The Stansbury back and forth needs to end.

Don't hold your breath.

[shannondawg]

Coach said it was all on Rick Ray next year, no Stansbury bashing, I believe him, why would he say that if he didn't mean it. Goodness, give the man some credit....I assume he means right after we lose er play our games at the SEC tourney. Right Coach?

He might have to go for therapy, but what they heck?

I have to admit, I am not much for message boards except to defend my friends so probably won't be hearing too much from me.

[drunkernhelldawg]

We should have won the South Carolina game with the players we have. We gave up a lot of points in that game with plain old sloppy play. The RAT in the house was a big factor, of course, but if we score or at least have decent possessions following the 3's, then the effect is not so devastating.

[BiscuitEater]

We would have been a much better team with Daniels and Ware inside during SEC play- with Borchert coming off the bench.

"Why" didn't Ray play him so that ...

1) He could find out 'if' Daniels is able to be a 'Ray team' player 'cause we already know he was not willing to do what it took to pass ONE single math class when it was needed. Instead, Daniels is still an unknown.
2) Ray, instead of regressing in year two, would have showed some improvement and at least had some momentum headed into recruiting and year three.
3) Now, without 'significant' improvement, we have a 'lame duck' that won't get a year four.

[Coach34]

"Why" didn't Ray play him so that ...
3) Now, without 'significant' improvement, we have a 'lame duck' that won't get a year four.

He's gonna get 4 years

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

"Why" didn't Ray play him so that ...

1) He could find out 'if' Daniels is able to be a 'Ray team' player 'cause we already know he was not willing to do what it took to pass ONE single math class when it was needed. Instead, Daniels is still an unknown.
2) Ray, instead of regressing in year two, would have showed some improvement and at least had some momentum headed into recruiting and year three.
3) Now, without 'significant' improvement, we have a 'lame duck' that won't get a year four.

Because playing him for half of this season would leave us with a guy who runs out of eligibility halfway through the 2015-2016 season - playing him this season would have been short-sighted enough fro me to want to go ahead and fire Ray on the theory that he can't see the forest for the trees. Anyone who suggests that Daniels should have played this year isn't thinking it through clearly.

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

The fact that he isn't feeling any pressure to win amazes me. He is making 1 million dollars a year.

[smootness]

The fact that he isn't feeling any pressure to win amazes me. He is making 1 million dollars a year.

I don't even know what this means.

[smootness]

"Why" didn't Ray play him so that ...

1) He could find out 'if' Daniels is able to be a 'Ray team' player 'cause we already know he was not willing to do what it took to pass ONE single math class when it was needed. Instead, Daniels is still an unknown.
2) Ray, instead of regressing in year two, would have showed some improvement and at least had some momentum headed into recruiting and year three.
3) Now, without 'significant' improvement, we have a 'lame duck' that won't get a year four.

Using the argument that Daniels should have played this year against Ray is insane. There's no coach in the country who would have played him for half this year knowing he would only have him for the first half of 2015-2016.

And claiming that Daniels was 'not willing to do what it took' in regard to passing a class is equally insane.

[Saltydog]

3's we're not gonna win many that many more games next year, even with the bigger guys coming in. Dunlap is supposedly a shooter but he's only 6'1" and we need more than one shooter, preferrably someone at the 3 that can knock down some outside shots.

[Sandman14]

We would have been a much better team with Daniels and Ware inside during SEC play- with Borchert coming off the bench. Roq could have played the 3 some- and we could have actually had a big line-up out there in some games to match other teams. But Ray didnt do that- why?

Because what is best for the long term health of the program- win 3-4 more games this season? Or have Daniels and Ware playing together for the next 2 full seasons? Program building is never easy. But he made the right decision and we'll start seeing the benefits next year

2015 is on Ray and we'll see if he delivers


BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHHA! GOOD ONE! We are building for the future! taking our lumps now instead of later, I gotcha!

[Sandman14]

He's gonna get 4 years

He's gonna get 4 because this is Mississippi State. It's the same reason we should never have fired his predecessor. Some of you said that others of us were "settling." Well, now I say to you that we currently are "settling." Why should we have to settle for being the worst team in the SEC for 4 straight years without making a move? Don't you have any self-respect? Any coach, and I mean ANY coach, should have been able to get out of the cellar in two years in this horrid division.

Just because we are MSU doesn't mean that you guys have to settle for being the worst program of all time in SEC basketball. You can have a little dignity and pull the plug after two years and an awful outlook. The Browns fired Chud as a head coach after 1 year wasn't it? Why does MSU have to watch the program literally almost have to disband because of the epic terribleness before a move is made?

[Sandman14]

No one even comes to the games anymore. It's like a ghost town. This is 10 times as bad as it ever was for Stands. At least under Stands, people cared. Now no one gives a flip. Most people don't even check the box scores anymore or have any idea what our record is or who we play next. It's just a dead program.

[Sandman14]

Can anyone name 4 players on this team? Sword...Fred Thomas....isn't there someone named Ware? That's all for me. Don't know what any of them look like except flat top Fred. Why would I care about one of the worst teams in SEC history led by the worst coach in the SEC that gets ripped by 20 plus every single game.

[Dawg61]

He's gonna get 4 because this is Mississippi State. It's the same reason we should never have fired his predecessor. Some of you said that others of us were "settling." Well, now I say to you that we currently are "settling." Why should we have to settle for being the worst team in the SEC for 4 straight years without making a move? Don't you have any self-respect? Any coach, and I mean ANY coach, should have been able to get out of the cellar in two years in this horrid division.

Just because we are MSU doesn't mean that you guys have to settle for being the worst program of all time in SEC basketball. You can have a little dignity and pull the plug after two years and an awful outlook. The Browns fired Chud as a head coach after 1 year wasn't it? Why does MSU have to watch the program literally almost have to disband because of the epic terribleness before a move is made?

JohnRick RayCohen will get his four years cause he was the National Championship runner up in baseball last year. That's worth at least 4 years of the worst basketball you'll ever see.

[TheRef]

Can anyone name 4 players on this team? Sword...Fred Thomas....isn't there someone named Ware? That's all for me. Don't know what any of them look like except flat top Fred. Why would I care about one of the worst teams in SEC history led by the worst coach in the SEC that gets ripped by 20 plus every single game.

Roq, ware, thomas, bloodman, chicken, ready, cunningham, borchert..then again, I'm a basketball fan at heart.

[Sandman14]

hilarious... John "Rick Ray" Cohen...I love it.

But shouldn't it be Rick "John Cohen" Ray?

[Sandman14]

Roq, ware, thomas, bloodman, chicken, ready, cunningham, borchert..then again, I'm a basketball fan at heart.

you and the other 54 folks need to keep that gym rocking. I honestly couldn't care less. MSU basketball is tantamount to MSU softball, and has been for the last 2 years, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. I'll check back in when we start winning 20 games a year again (but remember guys, 20 wins doesn't mean anything anymore...how much does 13 wins mean then??).

[engie]

Can anyone name 4 players on this team? Sword...Fred Thomas....isn't there someone named Ware? That's all for me. Don't know what any of them look like except flat top Fred. Why would I care about one of the worst teams in SEC history led by the worst coach in the SEC that gets ripped by 20 plus every single game.

Quoted proof you should be sitting out this discussion.

Bloodman, Ready
Sword, Davis
Thomas
Borchert, Roquez
Ware

Walk-ons: Moore, Cunningham, De'Runnya, adding Staley next year.

Redshirts: Daniels, NDoye -- giving us a 2nd 5 and a 2nd 4 next year. Iincoming Houston gives us a 2nd 3, while Black gives us a 3rd 4, and Dunlap gives us a 3rd 2.

Incoming: Houston, Black, Dunlap -- and likely one more coming to fill us to 13 players.

[engie]

you and the other 54 folks need to keep that gym rocking. I honestly couldn't care less. MSU basketball is tantamount to MSU softball, and has been for the last 2 years, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. I'll check back in when we start winning 20 games a year again (but remember guys, 20 wins doesn't mean anything anymore...how much does 13 wins mean then??).

So, you are sitting it out from this point forward then? Good.

[TheRef]

you and the other 54 folks need to keep that gym rocking. I honestly couldn't care less. MSU basketball is tantamount to MSU softball, and has been for the last 2 years, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. I'll check back in when we start winning 20 games a year again (but remember guys, 20 wins doesn't mean anything anymore...how much does 13 wins mean then??).

I will gladly do so. I'm sorry you could care less about a MSU sport. But hey, to each their own, right? You asked for someone to name more than 4 players on the team, I named 8 so I doubled your challenge. Yeah, it's tough to watch right now. There is no doubt about that. Do I get frustrated? Yes, what fan wouldn't get frustrated. Ray in his press conference today said that he is guaranteeing a full roster next year and that the lack of depth inside was what killed us. I can't argue with that. Next year is NIT or bust for me. I haven't called for RR's head yet this season, but if we don't get NIT next year I will call for his head and will lead the charge on it, if necessary. So I hope and pray I don't have to call for his head next season because that means that the hire was a failure. And don't you start saying "He's already a failure," or "This was the worst hire in MSU history," because we don't know that yet. I've said my peace, I'm done.

[MadDawg]

He's gonna get 4 years


Of course he will get four years. That will be the first year he's had ANY expectations, so how do you fire someone that you havne't had any expectations for up to that point?

[601Dawg]

Next year is all Ray. Nobody has ever said different

I'm bookmarking this thread and this quote Coach.

[Dawg61]

Hmmm JohnRick Ray is guaranteeing a full roster. 1) I'll believe it when it's that way for game 1 tip. 2) now do y'all see why I've been bringing this up so much? The message got delivered. No more skeleton rosters. 13 means 13.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

Hmmm JohnRick Ray is guaranteeing a full roster. 1) I'll believe it when it's that way for game 1 tip. 2) now do y'all see why I've been bringing this up so much? The message got delivered. No more skeleton rosters. 13 means 13.

1. a full roster does not necessarily mean 13 players on scholly - you don't even know where the forest is located because you are too busy staring at a small piece of bark on the first tree; 2. I can assure you that Rick Ray did not say this because you were on message boards shouting the number 13 as if the world is about to end. 3. Halfway through typing this I have realized that you won't understand anything I am typing

[whosyourdawgy]

Ray absolutely has to take blame for Daniels not being fully qualified this season. How can that not be the responsibility of the coaching staff to keep an eye on a kid who may or may not qualify? Especially when you are in desperate need of players of any shape form or size? If it's true that Daniels only needed the one class to pass to be eligible, then it shouldn't have been very hard to check the progress of that one class. But year 2 of a coach on a devastated team that needs players in the worst way and he has 3 recruits for that class and only ONE of them actually can put on a uniform to start the season is absolutely terrible. Now booting Wendell and Zdeck for smoking the weed is to be commended and not allowing Jalen to redshirt was most definitely the correct move. And while Daniels not being eligible is a big check mark on the terrible side, Ray would've only compounded that mistake by playing him this season.

Let's just hope and pray none of the current players other than Davis leaves the team, and all the signees actually make their grades and get on campus and can play next season. I also hope Ray can find a decent player to fill the 13th scholly. Whether it's another big or a shooter. We do not need another 6 foot guard period!

[Sandman14]

Yeah count me out. Just like if we signed a bunch of women to play football. I won't be there for the bloodbath on Saturdays. I will be here, however, to point out the ignorance of others who damage MSU through their exercise of free speech in running off all the positive things about the university.

[HailState39110]

We would have been a much better team with Daniels and Ware inside during SEC play- with Borchert coming off the bench. Roq could have played the 3 some- and we could have actually had a big line-up out there in some games to match other teams. But Ray didnt do that- why?

Because what is best for the long term health of the program- win 3-4 more games this season? Or have Daniels and Ware playing together for the next 2 full seasons? Program building is never easy. But he made the right decision and we'll start seeing the benefits next year

2015 is on Ray and we'll see if he delivers

I love the way people count the games we barely lost as an automatic win if we had a few more bodies (at Vandy, Arkansas) but they don't remember beating Texas A&M in OT or Ole Miss getting a shot at the buzzer to tie it. We easily could have gone 1-17 in SEC play rather than 6-12

[Dawg61]

1. a full roster does not necessarily mean 13 players on scholly - you don't even know where the forest is located because you are too busy staring at a small piece of bark on the first tree; 2. I can assure you that Rick Ray did not say this because you were on message boards shouting the number 13 as if the world is about to end. 3. Halfway through typing this I have realized that you won't understand anything I am typing

Why is Ray "guaranteeing" he'll have a full roster if that concern hadn't been delivered to him somehow? Keep trying to be cool though bud.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

Why is Ray "guaranteeing" he'll have a full roster if that concern hadn't been delivered to him somehow? Keep trying to be cool though bud.

He says that because he has coached 2 seasons now with less than a full deck. Everyone knows that you need a full deck to be able to compete - just look at Vandy this year. Ray isn't mentioning it because people on message boards think its a big deal. He's mentioning it because he knows he cannot win with 8 total players. It's really simple actually. To be clear, no one disagrees that we need a full compliment of players - it's your hangup on the number 13 that is making a mountain out of a molehill.

[Dawg61]

If I had above a 0% confidence level that we won't have multiple transfers/suspensions/injuries/non-qualifiers then I wouldn't be stressing the full 13 so much. Ray hasn't put a full roster together yet. After two seasons he still doesn't have one. We'll see if he can manage to get 13 by game 1 14-15. I'm saying there ain't no way he gets it done. That's how bad Rick Ray is. He can not even complete a full roster when getting called out 10 months before the deadline is due. 10 ****ing months and just watch he still won't accomplish the most simplest of tasks. Completing a full roster.

[smootness]

If I had above a 0% confidence level that we won't have multiple transfers/suspensions/injuries/non-qualifiers then I wouldn't be stressing the full 13 so much. Ray hasn't put a full roster together yet. After two seasons he still doesn't have one. We'll see if he can manage to get 13 by game 1 14-15. I'm saying there ain't no way he gets it done. That's how bad Rick Ray is. He can not even complete a full roster when getting called out 10 months before the deadline is due. 10 ****ing months and just watch he still won't accomplish the most simplest of tasks. Completing a full roster.

You have officially entered into 'senile' territory. You have completely lost your mind over this entire discussion and are now at least as bad as any poster on this site.

Congrats.

[thf24]

Hmmm JohnRick Ray is guaranteeing a full roster. 1) I'll believe it when it's that way for game 1 tip. 2) now do y'all see why I've been bringing this up so much? The message got delivered. No more skeleton rosters. 13 means 13.

Do you seriously think you, personally, through a message board, are influencing our athletic programs? Many of your posts seem to indicate just that, I'm just having an extremely tough time wrapping my head around that one.

[dawgs]

He says that because he has coached 2 seasons now with less than a full deck. Everyone knows that you need a full deck to be able to compete - just look at Vandy this year. Ray isn't mentioning it because people on message boards think its a big deal. He's mentioning it because he knows he cannot win with 8 total players. It's really simple actually. To be clear, no one disagrees that we need a full compliment of players - it's your hangup on the number 13 that is making a mountain out of a molehill.

vandy is still .500 overall and 7-11 in the sec. with a SoS 130 spots better than ours. if we were performing on about vandy's level in the W-L columns, both in and out of conference, most of us would see some progress and somewhat optimistic about next year. however, we aren't even on close to vandy's level right now.

it's like when yall point out tenn, lsu, arky, bama, etc. not winning with all their stars. guess what? except bama, they are all still a hell of a lot better than we are in the W-L columns against stronger schedules. and bama played the #2 SoS in the country and is about to fire their coach for not winning more.

it's like if they aren't florida or duke or arizona, then they are just as shitty as we are.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

Vandy is a perennial tournament-caliber team that struggled this year due to a lot of injuries. They are still coached by a good coach that has been there for years building that program, and are not in rebuilding mode. I didn't bring them up to compare our programs, I brought them up as part of the point that no one wins with 7-8 total players.

[C222]

Do you seriously think you, personally, through a message board, are influencing our athletic programs? Many of your posts seem to indicate just that, I'm just having an extremely tough time wrapping my head around that one.

Yes, he actually does. Pretty sad, huh?

[Homedawg]

You have officially entered into 'senile' territory. You have completely lost your mind over this entire discussion and are now at least as bad as any poster on this site.

Congrats.

The disappointing thing is smoot it took you this long to figure it out!!! Just fill the roster he says. Smh!

[Homedawg]

Yes, he actually does. Pretty sad, huh?

Ray has enough problems of his own. However if he's listening to him, fire him immediately!

[BiscuitEater]

He's gonna get 4 years

significant improvement he won't.

At ~ 19% SEC win percentage, two consecutive seasons with 'MSU record setting' 13 game SEC loss streaks and ... regression from a 4 win SEC season in year one to a 3 win SEC season in year two, he HAS to have a way better year three.

The last State BB coach that ONLY got three years was Hatfield and his SEC win percentage ( ~ 38%) was TWICE Ray's

[BiscuitEater]

Because playing him for half of this season would leave us with a guy who runs out of eligibility halfway through the 2015-2016 season - playing him this season would have been short-sighted enough fro me to want to go ahead and fire Ray on the theory that he can't see the forest for the trees. Anyone who suggests that Daniels should have played this year isn't thinking it through clearly.

"IF" Daniels had played second semester this year, we would have some idea 'if' he was going to buckle down under Ray, he would have had a SEC season to improve while actually playing; more than likely, our record would 'probably' be better and the entire MSU fanbase 'may' have some idea that Ray 'can' coach.

Instead, Ray record has digressed, we know 'squat' about Daniels and Daniels my end up being at State longer than Ray.

[engie]

"IF" Daniels had played second semester this year, we would have some idea 'if' he was going to buckle down under Ray, he would have had a SEC season to improve while actually playing; more than likely, our record would 'probably' be better and the entire MSU fanbase 'may' have some idea that Ray 'can' coach.

Instead, Ray record has digressed, we know 'squat' about Daniels and Daniels my end up being at State longer than Ray.

So, we'll go ahead and throw your hat in the "sell your soul for a few more wins in year 2 of a rebuild that still doesn't get us even close to the postseason" crowd then...

[dawgs]

Vandy is a perennial tournament-caliber team that struggled this year due to a lot of injuries. They are still coached by a good coach that has been there for years building that program, and are not in rebuilding mode. I didn't bring them up to compare our programs, I brought them up as part of the point that no one wins with 7-8 total players.

but they are still a significantly better team than us by overall record, by conference record, and even moreso when you consider SoS. yeah, sure no one "wins" (and by wins i'm assuming you mean wins big, at least NCAA bubble level season) with 7 or 8 active players, sure i'll grant you that. BUT NO ONE THAT'S BEEN SKEPTICAL OF RAY'S JOB THUS FAR ACTUALLY EXPECTED US TO COMPETE FOR THE NCAA THIS YEAR. so that's a moot point. most of us questioning ray thought we should be around vandy's level in the W and L columns this year to show us that things are heading in the right direction (~.500 overall record, 7 conference Ws), but despite a much much weaker schedule, we are significantly off vandy's pace.

[Coach34]

So, we'll go ahead and throw your hat in the "sell your soul for a few more wins in year 2 of a rebuild that still doesn't get us even close to the postseason" crowd then...

That type of stupidity is amazing. People that think Daniels should have played this year probably have trouble figuring out how to get out of a room if the door closed

[HailState39110]

Vandy is a perennial tournament-caliber team that struggled this year due to a lot of injuries. They are still coached by a good coach that has been there for years building that program, and are not in rebuilding mode. I didn't bring them up to compare our programs, I brought them up as part of the point that no one wins with 7-8 total players.

I guess Vandy didn't get the Memo that your only supposed to win 3 conference games with 8 scholarship players

[tcdog70]

Borchet is gone, how do we know Daniel will be as good as Borchert? Borchert had better JUCO credentials. He was probably our best three point shooter. We suxed big time with Borchert why will it be different with Daniel? The only place where Ray can improve our team will be at the guard position and just who has he signed to make us better at the guard position. The big 6'11" guy might can help Ware out, I hope so. Houston and Black will furnish some depth. Houston might be Rays best recruit. Dunlap is small but he can shoot, Let's hope Ray can figure out how to get him some shoots. Fred and the Chicken will continue to be our best players and they are flawed offensively. With a full roster maybe we will be a pressure defensive team that covers up our pitiful offense.

[dawgs]

So, we'll go ahead and throw your hat in the "sell your soul for a few more wins in year 2 of a rebuild that still doesn't get us even close to the postseason" crowd then...

fwiw, not ever ray skeptic thinks we should have played daniels half a season. that would be very short sighted and likely not made much difference in the final outcome of the season. especially since we don't even know if daniels is a difference maker at all. so let's not group all ray skeptics into the some short-sighted reactionary group, just like it's unfair to group all of us into the the "hope rick ray fails" group and the stans lovers group.

[C222]

Borchet is gone, how do we know Daniel will be as good as Borchert? Borchert had better JUCO credentials. He was probably our best three point shooter. We suxed big time with Borchert why will it be different with Daniel? The only place where Ray can improve our team will be at the guard position and just who has he signed to make us better at the guard position. The big 6'11" guy might can help Ware out, I hope so. Houston and Black will furnish some depth. Houston might be Rays best recruit. Dunlap is small but he can shoot, Let's hope Ray can figure out how to get him some shoots. Fred and the Chicken will continue to be our best players and they are flawed offensively. With a full roster maybe we will be a pressure defensive team that covers up our pitiful offense.

Tookie is probably his best so far. Hope he sticks with us.

[engie]

fwiw, not ever ray skeptic thinks we should have played daniels half a season. that would be very short sighted and likely not made much difference in the final outcome of the season. especially since we don't even know if daniels is a difference maker at all. so let's not group all ray skeptics into the some short-sighted reactionary group, just like it's unfair to group all of us into the the "hope rick ray fails" group and the stans lovers group.

I wasn't trying to "group" everyone in with my statement at all. There are logical, completely fair points of view that are skeptical right now. Yours is one of those views IMO. Hence how I'm still seeing and responding to your posts right now, unlike many in this thread -- that have made my reading experience at Elite infinitely more enjoyable since I hid them.

[Coach34]

Borchet is gone, how do we know Daniel will be as good as Borchert? Borchert had better JUCO credentials.

Not defensively. I think we could bring someone in handicapped to play D as well as Borchert. Playing basketball is not just about shooting it

[Dawg61]

You guys are acting like Daniels is Malik Newman. It's usually the best idea to actually use the players you had originally planned for. We are probably not the worst power6 conference in the nation if Ray manages to convince Steele to play, Lewis to stop smoking weed, Daniels to pass algebra, Applewhite to not quit and doesn't tie up a scholarship in Ndoye this year. That's 5 players. An entire lineup able to play at once. More than a third of his roster. To give Ray a total pass on this is ridiculous.

[Coach34]

You guys are acting like Daniels is Malik Newman.

No, we are pointing out that Daniels is better than Borchert. We are pointing out that having him for the next 2 years is way more valuable to the program than wasting him in a meaningless year. We are building the program for the long haul- not some quick fix. We now have out starting frontcourt for the next 2 years set.

[Dawg61]

No, we are pointing out that Daniels is better than Borchert. We are pointing out that having him for the next 2 years is way more valuable to the program than wasting him in a meaningless year. We are building the program for the long haul- not some quick fix. We now have out starting frontcourt for the next 2 years set.

I'm glad Daniels is better than Borchert. No more saving scholarships and players till next year planning though. That's been done for two years now. 3rd year have the roster full of ELIGIBLE players and quit saving the last scholarship. Somebody needs to hand out some "love" to an eligible transfer or three too. Tennessee added the PG from Memphis this year and GTech added their starting PG as well. Players are out there. 400 of them transfer every single year.

[tcdog70]

No, we are pointing out that Daniels is better than Borchert. We are pointing out that having him for the next 2 years is way more valuable to the program than wasting him in a meaningless year. We are building the program for the long haul- not some quick fix. We now have out starting frontcourt for the next 2 years set.
Now how do you know he is better than Borchert? That is just some more of your spin and looking into the crystal ball.
So far your predictions have been a big fail. What have you predicted that has actually proven to be true? Daniel might be better than Borchert but we will have to wait and see.

[Brad Stevens]

I'm glad Daniels is better than Borchert. No more saving scholarships and players till next year planning though. That's been done for two years now. 3rd year have the roster full of ELIGIBLE players and quit saving the last scholarship. Somebody needs to hand out some "love" to an eligible transfer or three too. Tennessee added the PG from Memphis this year and GTech added their starting PG as well. Players are out there. 400 of them transfer every single year.

In this post, you advocate (like you have previously) for a full roster next year (and rightfully so). Yet, you want us to grab a transfer (also a good idea), who by definition, would have to sit out a year. So which is it? You can't have 13 eligible players and a scholarship devoted to a non-eligible transfer player.

[tcdog70]

Not defensively. I think we could bring someone in handicapped to play D as well as Borchert. Playing basketball is not just about shooting it


You are correct, we don't need to score just play defense. Oh wait, we tried that and lost 14 in a row. Those games we score 45 points in, you better have some badass defense. So far RR 's team can't play either offense or defense. I guess if we could play one or the other , shit that would be an improvement .

[maroonmania]

Playing basketball is not just about shooting it

Yes, and apparently our team likes to demonstrate this concept to us in most every game.

[Dawg61]

In this post, you advocate (like you have previously) for a full roster next year (and rightfully so). Yet, you want us to grab a transfer (also a good idea), who by definition, would have to sit out a year. So which is it? You can't have 13 eligible players and a scholarship devoted to a non-eligible transfer player.

Both transfer players I referenced were eligible immediately this year. So that's the type of transfer I'm talking about. Not the ones that have to sit out a year.

[Coach34]

Now how do you know he is better than Borchert? .

I've had 2 people that know basketball tell me he was. One thinks he's better than Ware

[smootness]

GTech added their starting PG as well.

Trae Golden sucks. The fact you think that would be a good transfer for us just further confirms my thoughts about your basketball knowledge. It is amazing the amount of crap you've thrown against the wall in this whole thing.

[Dawg61]

Trae Golden sucks

He's better than any PG we are putting on the floor. It'd take Bloodman eight years to get as many wins as Golden has.

[mcdawg]

I've had 2 people that know basketball tell me he was. One thinks he's better than Ware

Went to the Callaway game tonight. First, Laurel gave them all that they had. Great game - Callaway won in OT w/o MN scoring a point. Rick Ray was at the game. Seems to be a sharp guy - wearing his MSU maroon shirt and matching maroon shoes. What bothered me is he stood by himself most of the game. People must not know him, as nobody really approached him to talk. He sat with Coach Williams and talked to him most of the game. Here is what I heard from some good sources (one of them a well-known coach). 1) A State asst coach told one guy that Daniels may be our best player right now. 2) The kid from Montgomery is the real deal - can play SEC ball. 3) Dunlap and Black are not SEC players. Dunlap is too small and cannot play the point, and Black cannot score. Neither had good senior years according to this coach. Jackson State will sign 2 guards that are better than Dunlap. And, when JSU played us this year, they were equal to us at every position.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

I guess Vandy didn't get the Memo that your only supposed to win 3 conference games with 8 scholarship players

No one said that. Vandy also isn't in the midst of a total rebuild with a 2nd year head coach. It's not apples to apples, and I wasn't comparing it as such. Vandy struggled without any depth this year (they also weren't in that position the entire year).


Now how do you know he is better than Borchert? That is just some more of your spin and looking into the crystal ball.
So far your predictions have been a big fail. What have you predicted that has actually proven to be true? Daniel might be better than Borchert but we will have to wait and see.

All reports from practice have Daniels as being much much better than Borchert. I appreciate Borchert coming in and being a part of such a rebuild, but he's really just not very good.

[Coach34]

Went to the Callaway game tonight. First, Laurel gave them all that they had. Great game - Callaway won in OT w/o MN scoring a point. Rick Ray was at the game. Seems to be a sharp guy - wearing his MSU maroon shirt and matching maroon shoes. What bothered me is he stood by himself most of the game. People must not know him, as nobody really approached him to talk. He sat with Coach Williams and talked to him most of the game. Here is what I heard from some good sources (one of them a well-known coach). 1) A State asst coach told one guy that Daniels may be our best player right now. 2) The kid from Montgomery is the real deal - can play SEC ball. 3) Dunlap and Black are not SEC players. Dunlap is too small and cannot play the point, and Black cannot score. Neither had good senior years according to this coach. Jackson State will sign 2 guards that are better than Dunlap. And, when JSU played us this year, they were equal to us at every position.

I'm not big on Dunlap myself and dont look for him to have any impact on next season. And that seems to be the word on Daniels and Houston- both impact players. We need to sign a shooter with this last scholly.

[tcdog70]

No one said that. Vandy also isn't in the midst of a total rebuild with a 2nd year head coach. It's not apples to apples, and I wasn't comparing it as such. Vandy struggled without any depth this year (they also weren't in that position the entire year).



All reports from practice have Daniels as being much much better than Borchert. I appreciate Borchert coming in and being a part of such a rebuild, but he's really just not very good.

a lot of players could look good practicing against Us. We will see when he actually hits the floor when it counts.--As Allen Iverson said--"It's Practice"--Oh and Borchet says"Thanks for your support"

[smootness]

a lot of players could look good practicing against Us. We will see when he actually hits the floor when it counts.--As Allen Iverson said--"It's Practice"--Oh and Borchet says"Thanks for your support"

Why would that matter? Borchert is also practicing against us, and they are pretty easy to compare when they're both in they're practicing against/with each other.

The comparison was Daniels to Borchert, not Daniels to Kevin Garnett.

[Dawg61]

Why would that matter? Borchert is also practicing against us, and they are pretty easy to compare when they're both in they're practicing against/with each other.

The comparison was Daniels to Borchert, not Daniels to Kevin Garnett.

tcdog makes a good point. It's PRACTICE with the worst Power6 team in the nation. We won't really know about Daniels till he starts playing in real games. Lots of players look great during practice but few look great in front of fans and television. Sometimes that pressure makes players better but lots of players tighten up under it.