The drop in fan support for MSU Basketball is a major crisis

[drunkernhelldawg]

The change is stunning. Other teams, such as Indiana, have gone from winning to losing without being abandoned by the fans. I've been watching sports all my life and I can't remember seeing a change this dramatic affect any other team in any sport.

[MarketingBully01]

The change is stunning. Other teams, such as Indiana, have gone from winning to losing without being abandoned by the fans. I've been watching sports all my life and I can't remember seeing a change this dramatic affect any other team in any sport.

That's the way MSU fans are. We always have been like this. If you put a shit product out on the court, field, baseball diamond, or whatever our fans won't fill the stands. The Croom years eroded football support but as soon as Mullen came we started selling it out. Don't worry, as soon as basketball starts winning again the fan support will be back.

[maroonmania]

That's the way MSU fans are. We always have been like this. If you put a shit product out on the court, field, baseball diamond, or whatever our fans won't fill the stands. The Croom years eroded football support but as soon as Mullen came we started selling it out. Don't worry, as soon as basketball starts winning again the fan support will be back.

That's mainly because of the location of MSU. MSU fans probably travel further per fan to see sporting events than any major college out there. When you put a crap product out who wants to spend the hours and dollars traveling to see it? Now if the majority of the fans live within an hour of campus you might still go anyway. That's the way it had been for SC in football. No, they never had a great product until recently but when you are located in the largest city in the state where the bulk of your fans already live you can still get a good crowd to show up.

[BeardoMSU]

It's spring break, guys. The student section has been much more consistent than the rest of the Hump this year.

[HailState39110]

I'm still confused why people keep comparing our program to Indiana ? from the Tom Crean / Rick Ray comparisons to wondering our fans don't hang around when we are losing like Indiana bother me. Look, Indiana is a national basketball powerhouse in a basketball crazy state and has won a few national titles.please quit with these comparisons

[Offshore Dawg]

Bottom line; MSU fans = fair weather fans. It has been that way for the 50 years that I have been a DAWG

[TheDogFather]

Bottom line; MSU fans = fair weather fans. It has been that way for the 50 years that I have been a DAWG

Stansbury had several shitty seasons according to many but fan support never reached the current Junior college levels. Even in his last season debacle we still sold out SEC games.

[drunkernhelldawg]

It looks better than it did at the start of the game. Maybe it's not as bad as it looks. I think the location point in this thread is true. It's good to see the team coming back in this game. We've played well in spurts a lot of times this season. With all those recruits there, we need to finish this with a win today.

[Coach34]

Stansbury had several shitty seasons according to many but fan support never reached the current Junior college levels. Even in his last season debacle we still sold out SEC games.

You and Stands can go suck a monkey dick

[shannondawg]

Getting to you Coach?

[HailState39110]

Getting to you Coach?

We need to buy Coach an all inclusive vacation to Stans Wet n'Wild water park to relieve his stress

[TheDogFather]

You and Stands can go suck a monkey dick

This quote on all time favorite list.

Along with the one where you said Ray was a good coach because others were copying his defense.

[HoopsDawg]

This quote on all time favorite list.

Along with the one where you said Ray was a good coach because others were copying his defense.

I was banned when he posted that. Definitely one of the funniest things I have ever read on the internet.

[preachermatt83]

I will not attend another basketball game at the HUMP as long as Rick Ray is the coach there.

[MetEdDawg]

Problem is that people don't understand what brings good change. People think pulling their money out and not going to games helps. It really doesn't. Actually it gives administration to keep the coach because attendance in basketball doesn't hamstring us as much from an attendance standpoint and sales point as football does. Lose 5,000 in attendance at football and someone notices. Lose 5,000 at a basketball game and it doesn't put nearly as big a dent. If you want to make change, go to the game, let us suck, then it's easier not to give anyone excuses for sucking.

Pull your money out all you want, but in the end all you are doing is giving MSU less money to make change and hurting your university overall. People that use money to make their own change in a sports program that is much bigger than them don't get the big picture and it pisses me off.

[RougeDawg]

Problem is that people don't understand what brings good change. People think pulling their money out and not going to games helps. It really doesn't. Actually it gives administration to keep the coach because attendance in basketball doesn't hamstring us as much from an attendance standpoint and sales point as football does. Lose 5,000 in attendance at football and someone notices. Lose 5,000 at a basketball game and it doesn't put nearly as big a dent. If you want to make change, go to the game, let us suck, then it's easier not to give anyone excuses for sucking.

Pull your money out all you want, but in the end all you are doing is giving MSU less money to make change and hurting your university overall. People that use money to make their own change in a sports program that is much bigger than them don't get the big picture and it pisses me off.

You know what really hurts a program? Having 8 God damn scholarship players on a BCS conference team. A team might I add that's been in the top half of the SEC most of the last decade. There's absolutely no excuse for it with the punt of Transfers and quality JUCO guys out there. Period. End of ****ing story. He's just using this shit as a "woe is me" excuse for his inability to recruit and biting off more than he could chew being a head coach.

[MetEdDawg]

You know what really hurts a program? Having 8 God damn scholarship players on a BCS conference team. A team might I add that's been in the top half of the SEC most of the last decade. There's absolutely no excuse for it with the punt of Transfers and quality JUCO guys out there. Period. End of ****ing story. He's just using this shit as a "woe is me" excuse for his inability to recruit and biting off more than he could chew being a head coach.

No what the problem is is that fans like you that think we should just grab a bunch of JUCOs and we will be magically better. You were probably in the club of people that actually thought we should walk into Sanderson and grab some guys because they would have made us better last year.

The problem we have is that our fan base is dumb and has ZERO ability to look objectively at situations. Is this what we wanted? No. Is it what some logical people expected? Absolutely. You had to know there would be recruiting difficulties because we blew the whole program up, winning difficulties because we had a thin roster, and attrition difficulties because of the culture that was bred during the last years of the Stansbury tenure.

Why should we expect more than what we have right now? What makes anyone think that we should be better? Is this situation like anything you've seen before? Some of you may think we have a great basketball history, but in all honestly we really don't. Couple of SEC Championships in years that we were clearly not the best team in the SEC, never out of the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament under Stansbury, some bad NIT losses very recently, guys being kicked off the team or failing drug tests, no NBA guys worth mentioning.

Geez people, wake up. Sure we did some good things, but Stansbury left us with nothing we could hang our hat on to use in our favor. It was all blown up. But somehow Rick Ray's tenure will ultimately off of whether or not he can get Malik Newman, or whether or not he can get JUCOs because that would help us so much more, or why he doesn't play a guy like D'Runnya Wilson who didn't play basketball for almost a year but we should just stick him in a week after playing football and let him work his magic and be the savior of the team. God our fan base is so stupid.

[mullenite]

Its not just MSU. The state of Mississippi as a whole abandons teams when they aren't winning. Mind boggling.

[Fader21]

Let's be honest. The reason why there is no support is because Ray is a black coach who is losing. If he was white I bet most the fan base would give him atleast 3 years. I don't understand the whole comparing ray to croom either.

[Brad Stevens]

I will not attend another basketball game at the HUMP as long as Rick Ray is the coach there.

That's the way to show grace, preacher!**

[Goat Holder]

I used to fight this battle all the time too, just like you are doing. But save your energy. Use it to go out and recruit more people to be MSU fans, thus more people to choose from, more money, etc. MSU's fanbase is just small, it's no better or worse than anybody else's. They all have their idiots. People are just people, even at Ole Miss.

But remember, to ever get fans in the first place, the Alabama's (football) and Indiana's (basketball) and LSU's (baseball) had to DO something on the field to get them there. It certainly helps to have fans before winning, but that isn't reality. Alabama/Auburn/etc. built their fanbases over years of consistent winning, something MSU hasn't had except in baseball. And look.....we have one of the best fanbases in the nation in that sport.

[Dawg61]

No what the problem is is that fans like you that think we should just grab a bunch of JUCOs and we will be magically better. You were probably in the club of people that actually thought we should walk into Sanderson and grab some guys because they would have made us better last year.

The problem we have is that our fan base is dumb and has ZERO ability to look objectively at situations. Is this what we wanted? No. Is it what some logical people expected? Absolutely. You had to know there would be recruiting difficulties because we blew the whole program up, winning difficulties because we had a thin roster, and attrition difficulties because of the culture that was bred during the last years of the Stansbury tenure.

Why should we expect more than what we have right now? What makes anyone think that we should be better? Is this situation like anything you've seen before? Some of you may think we have a great basketball history, but in all honestly we really don't. Couple of SEC Championships in years that we were clearly not the best team in the SEC, never out of the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament under Stansbury, some bad NIT losses very recently, guys being kicked off the team or failing drug tests, no NBA guys worth mentioning.

Geez people, wake up. Sure we did some good things, but Stansbury left us with nothing we could hang our hat on to use in our favor. It was all blown up. But somehow Rick Ray's tenure will ultimately off of whether or not he can get Malik Newman, or whether or not he can get JUCOs because that would help us so much more, or why he doesn't play a guy like D'Runnya Wilson who didn't play basketball for almost a year but we should just stick him in a week after playing football and let him work his magic and be the savior of the team. God our fan base is so stupid.

Cool story bro. Problem with it is that Rick Ray is a terrible basketball coach. If you can't see it by now you really shouldn't comment on basketball any further.

[Goat Holder]

(my best Finebaum sigh right here)

I can't believe there are actually self-hating whiteys like you still out there that would believe what you just posted. Or you may be one of those extremely racist black folks. Either way you're damned idiot. If anything, the color of Ray's skin actually HELPS him more than hurts him in 2014.

[Dawg61]

Let's be honest. The reason why there is no support is because Ray is a black coach who is losing. If he was white I bet most the fan base would give him atleast 3 years. I don't understand the whole comparing ray to croom either.

Quit trying to get the thread locked asshole. Race ain't got shit to do with this.

[mullenite]

@Fader21 Good grief.... Surely you don't believe this...

[Brad Stevens]

No what the problem is is that fans like you that think we should just grab a bunch of JUCOs and we will be magically better. You were probably in the club of people that actually thought we should walk into Sanderson and grab some guys because they would have made us better last year.

The problem we have is that our fan base is dumb and has ZERO ability to look objectively at situations. Is this what we wanted? No. Is it what some logical people expected? Absolutely. You had to know there would be recruiting difficulties because we blew the whole program up, winning difficulties because we had a thin roster, and attrition difficulties because of the culture that was bred during the last years of the Stansbury tenure.

Why should we expect more than what we have right now? What makes anyone think that we should be better? Is this situation like anything you've seen before? Some of you may think we have a great basketball history, but in all honestly we really don't. Couple of SEC Championships in years that we were clearly not the best team in the SEC, never out of the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament under Stansbury, some bad NIT losses very recently, guys being kicked off the team or failing drug tests, no NBA guys worth mentioning.

Geez people, wake up. Sure we did some good things, but Stansbury left us with nothing we could hang our hat on to use in our favor. It was all blown up. But somehow Rick Ray's tenure will ultimately off of whether or not he can get Malik Newman, or whether or not he can get JUCOs because that would help us so much more, or why he doesn't play a guy like D'Runnya Wilson who didn't play basketball for almost a year but we should just stick him in a week after playing football and let him work his magic and be the savior of the team. God our fan base is so stupid.

Great post. Let's just hope the few voices that make themselves heard on message boards don't truly represent the MSU population as a whole. Our team sucks (clearly), but I have faith most of our fan-base isn't that dumb.

[Coach34]

No what the problem is is that fans like you that think we should just grab a bunch of JUCOs and we will be magically better. You were probably in the club of people that actually thought we should walk into Sanderson and grab some guys because they would have made us better last year.

The problem we have is that our fan base is dumb and has ZERO ability to look objectively at situations. Is this what we wanted? No. Is it what some logical people expected? Absolutely. You had to know there would be recruiting difficulties because we blew the whole program up, winning difficulties because we had a thin roster, and attrition difficulties because of the culture that was bred during the last years of the Stansbury tenure.

Why should we expect more than what we have right now? What makes anyone think that we should be better? Is this situation like anything you've seen before? Some of you may think we have a great basketball history, but in all honestly we really don't. Couple of SEC Championships in years that we were clearly not the best team in the SEC, never out of the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament under Stansbury, some bad NIT losses very recently, guys being kicked off the team or failing drug tests, no NBA guys worth mentioning.

Geez people, wake up. Sure we did some good things, but Stansbury left us with nothing we could hang our hat on to use in our favor. It was all blown up. But somehow Rick Ray's tenure will ultimately off of whether or not he can get Malik Newman, or whether or not he can get JUCOs because that would help us so much more, or why he doesn't play a guy like D'Runnya Wilson who didn't play basketball for almost a year but we should just stick him in a week after playing football and let him work his magic and be the savior of the team. God our fan base is so stupid.

Outstanding post...Gracias amigo

[mcdawg]

Let's be honest. The reason why there is no support is because Ray is a black coach who is losing. If he was white I bet most the fan base would give him atleast 3 years. I don't understand the whole comparing ray to croom either.

This is such a dumb statement, it is hard to respond to. But, I will try.

1) A lot of fans didn't like the handling of the change. Like it or not, Stans had a lot of supporters. He is an extremely likable guy that was very close to a lot of fans.
2) I know a lot of Jackson-area fans that now go to Jackson State games (instead of MSU games), since they like Coach Brent. He is a very likable guy that is approachable by basketball fans. Oh, and he is black.
3) I know a lot of MSU basketball fans that now just go to high school games. I have been to more hs games than MSU games (and I have 4 lower level tickets). Takes less time and is more enjoyable.
4) MS is a hunting state. I have a lot of friends that are going hunting on Saturdays (now) instead of MSU games. You better give them a good product to get them out of the woods - no matter the color of the coach. Same goes for golfers.
5) Some are just tired of watching our team lose - again, no matter the color of the coach.
6) Some had gotten frustrated with our basketball program under Stans, so they are sour on basketball - and Stans is white.

I would keep on going, but you get the point. Having a black coach has nothing to do with it. If we were winning, they would love him. That's the way of the coaching world.

[mcdawg]

This quote on all time favorite list.

Along with the one where you said Ray was a good coach because others were copying his defense.

Now, that is funny. The defense that is last in the SEC in field goal % defense!

[Thick]

The change is stunning. Other teams, such as Indiana, have gone from winning to losing without being abandoned by the fans. I've been watching sports all my life and I can't remember seeing a change this dramatic affect any other team in any sport.

I don't see a problem with it. I live in Jackson, and I'm not wasting money on something that is not good. Would you go to a shitty restaurant over and over again if it continues to be shitty?

[Thick]

It also sends a message to the athletic department...the fans demand more from the bball program then hustle and effort. It also informs the coaching staff that the end is near if things don't change real quick. Wonder what Stricklin is thinking right now?

[MetEdDawg]

It also sends a message to the athletic department...the fans demand more from the bball program then hustle and effort. It also informs the coaching staff that the end is near if things don't change real quick. Wonder what Stricklin is thinking right now?

Right now he's thinking of strategies to get more people to games in ways that have nothing to do with our team's ability or performance because everyone is coming back next year. I don't care if the product is bad. If I had the monetary means and I only lived an hour from campus I would be there every single home game and if I lived within two hours I would certainly at least be there for weekend home games.

People don't understand that this boycotting games and pulling money out is a self perpetuating circle that only action on our part will get us out of. We can't recruit, so we suck on the court. We suck on the court, so people don't go to games. When good recruits come to games, they see no fans, so they don't want to come to our school because the fans don't care and don't show up to support the team. So we can't recruit and the cycle starts back again. Then before you know it all we have is 3 or 4 years of bad to mediocre basketball to sell to another coach and recruits, no fans at games, and less money to work with if we do want to make change. How much sense does that make?

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

Is it NIT or bust for Ray next year? I have never heard of a coach in a BCS conference losing 14 in a row to close the season and keeping his job, but somehow Stricklin is going to sweep it under the rug. I see us winning 6 conference games next year simply because of a full roster. We will miss Borchert in all types of way and our outside shooting will be dismal again. This won't work and it's time for coach and Engie to admit Ray won't take us anywhere. There's a reason he's jumped around to so many jobs and went 16-15 in his last year at Clemson.

[Original48]

Wonder what Stricklin is thinking right now?
He's thinking...I guess it's better to be in Arizona getting punched in the stomach than at the Hump getting kicked in the Girados.

[Will James]

I used to be a big hoops fan. Back when the game was interesting aka not AAU athletes being athletic. Even if we were "good" I don't think I would like the product. The sport just doesn't do it for me anymore. It's boring to watch now, across the whole NCAA landscape.

[Coach34]

Is it NIT or bust for Ray next year? I have never heard of a coach in a BCS conference losing 14 in a row to close the season and keeping his job, but somehow Stricklin is going to sweep it under the rug. I see us winning 6 conference games next year simply because of a full roster. We will miss Borchert in all types of way and our outside shooting will be dismal again. This won't work and it's time for coach and Engie to admit Ray won't take us anywhere. There's a reason he's jumped around to so many jobs and went 16-15 in his last year at Clemson.

Trent Johnson lost more than 14 in a row and I bet he keeps his job also

[Coach34]

We will miss Borchert in all types of way and our outside shooting will be dismal again. This won't work and it's time for coach and Engie to admit Ray won't take us anywhere. There's a reason he's jumped around to so many jobs and went 16-15 in his last year at Clemson.

A) We will not miss Borchert. Yes, he can shoot a little but he couldnt guard me. He is slow as shit and didnt battle in the paint. I've had people that have actually been to practice tell me that Daniels is the best big we have right now. Including Ware. Endo is gonna be ok as well and give us some minutes with his 6'11 ass down in there.

B) So when Ray bounces around as an asst it's a bad thing- but when Robert Kirby does it's because he's a great asst? Good to know

[Coach34]

I have never heard of a coach in a BCS conference losing 14 in a row to close the season and keeping his job, but somehow Stricklin is going to sweep it under the rug. .

Oliver Purnell at Depaul has gone thru 1-14 and 1-15 stretches while rebuilding there the last couple of years and kept his job.

[Coach34]

Is it NIT or bust for Ray next year? I have never heard of a coach in a BCS conference losing 14 in a row to close the season and keeping his job, but somehow Stricklin is going to sweep it under the rug.

Pat Chambers lost his first 14 conference games at Penn State last yearand finished 2-16....kept his job- ya know, because they were rebuilding

[HardyStreetAlumniClub]

The change is stunning. Other teams, such as Indiana, have gone from winning to losing without being abandoned by the fans. I've been watching sports all my life and I can't remember seeing a change this dramatic affect any other team in any sport.

They ****ing suck. When has Indiana been as bad as we are even in their off years? Im sorry, but I'm not driving more than an hour to watch Ray's group of misfits lose to every single shitty SEC team that is put forth. I won't support losing. Last night's game pissed me off more than any other game this year. We had a terrible SEC team beat at home, on senior night, and Ray's group of misfits found a way to blow it.

If Ray can somehow find a way to get his guys to play even close to a level to be proud of, I would make my usual 2-3 games a year.

[Coach34]

Is it NIT or bust for Ray next year? I have never heard of a coach in a BCS conference losing 14 in a row to close the season and keeping his job, but somehow Stricklin is going to sweep it under the rug. .

Billy Gillispie went 1-17 at TT and kept his job- Until that September when he went on another drunken bender or whatever it was. But they had planned on keeping him another season

[Coach34]

They ****ing suck. When has Indiana been as bad as we are even in their off years? .

2009- Indiana went 6-25, 1-17 in conference
2010- Indiana went 10-21, 4-14 in conference
2011- Indiana went 12-20, 3-15 in conference
2012- Indiana went 27-9 and made the Sweet 16

[CadaverDawg]

I don't see a problem with it. I live in Jackson, and I'm not wasting money on something that is not good. Would you go to a shitty restaurant over and over again if it continues to be shitty?

This is where I am too. I have an extremely busy work schedule, and I have to plan ahead to go to games. I'm sorry if I don't want to leave work early on a Wednesday, drive to Starkville and back to watch our team score 42 points and throw up 20 backboard crushing bricks from 3 point range, and us lose by 20. Even if the tickets are free, the tank of gas isn't worth that shit. Hell, at least with Stansbury's teams I knew I would see some ally-oops from Moultrie, some blocked shots from Varnado, some treys from Bost, some beautiful set shots and perfectly parted hair from Shane Power*, etc... This shit we're watching is not only awful, but there aren't even exciting moments within a loss. I have 10000 things that I can do with my time and money that are better than going and watching that team.

Facts.

I'm not saying I wish we had Stansbury back, because I don't....but even a more exciting loser would be an upgrade.

[HardyStreetAlumniClub]

Did you forget they were on a three year probation and play in a conference far superior to the SEC?

I'm not paying money to go see terrible basketball, that's the bottom line. If that makes me a bad fan then so be it. I've paid lots of money over the years to attend lots of athletic events we are involved with.

[Coach34]

Did you forget they were on a three year probation and play in a conference far superior to the SEC?.

Did you forget where Stands left Ray one functional player to move forward with? You cant get any more probation than that

[HardyStreetAlumniClub]

Did you forget how many players Ray dismissed from the team?

[CadaverDawg]

Did you forget where Stands left Ray one functional player to move forward with? You cant get any more probation than that

Sword, Thomas, Ware, Steele, Lewis, Johnson

I would say the opposite. Stansbury left us our current best players, and 2 guys that Ray dismissed

[Coach34]

Did you forget how many players Ray dismissed from the team?

actually they dismissed themselves by failing 3 drug tests. And also Ray has no say in the matter- when player fails his 3rd test- the AD office notifys the coach that they are done.

[HardyStreetAlumniClub]

Bottom line is Rick Ray has some big problems and the fan base will not stick around to watch the product he put on the court for the past two years. He may end up being a great coach and turning our program around, but it sure isn't happening yet. And until he puts out a competitive product, I'm done with MSU basketball. We are the laughingstock of a very very bad basketball conference. I'm for keeping him around another year because I believe every coach deserves 3 years to completely turn a program around. If we don't see significant improvement next year i'll help him pack his ****ing bags. The last thing we need is another Croom to waste 5 years of a perfectly capable basketball program.

[coastdoglover]

Coach, you got exactly what you had been screaming for over 8 years ago. Now own up to it and be a big boy and admit it was dumb. All the crap about Stan's leaving a train wreck is BS. He would have kept Hood and no matter how much you try to blame him, that is a load of crap. We would have added some talent last year and nothing could have been this bad. I am not going to argue with you anymore because you will do anything you can to justify you were right and this time, you weren't. Ray will be history next year and then we will have to go through all thus shit again after wasting 3 years of basketball . You let your insecure hatred of Stan's influence others and now all of you look like idiots . Be careful what you wish for, you got it!

[Political Hack]

roster transitions should be taking place in year one... not questioning the extent to which they'll still be occurring going into year three. We are the cellar of the cellar of BCS basketball conferences. How anyone is ok with that is beyond me.

[MetEdDawg]

Coach, you got exactly what you had been screaming for over 8 years ago. Now own up to it and be a big boy and admit it was dumb. All the crap about Stan's leaving a train wreck is BS. He would have kept Hood and no matter how much you try to blame him, that is a load of crap. We would have added some talent last year and nothing could have been this bad. I am not going to argue with you anymore because you will do anything you can to justify you were right and this time, you weren't. Ray will be history next year and then we will have to go through all thus shit again after wasting 3 years of basketball . You let your insecure hatred of Stan's influence others and now all of you look like idiots . Be careful what you wish for, you got it!

This is why our fan base is dumb. Too ignorant to look at the big picture. Is there anyone on this board who doesn't think that if we had kept Stansbury that we would have had a better record over the past two years? I think it's pretty obvious we would. Josh Gray may be here, Wendell Lewis still here, Jalen Steele still here, few others maybe. Better record than the last two years pretty easily.

But people, THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE!! The issue here is would Stansbury have ever done better than his ceiling, which was 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament 1 time in 2007-2008. We had guys getting in fights in public, multiple failed drug tests, horrible NIT losses, and an overall bad national picture of our program (regardless of whether you think some of those talking heads are decent analysts or not, they are still on ESPN and them bashing us is in no way good for us).

We didn't ask to suck and we didn't ask for Ray to struggle. But what we did ask for is hope that our program would one day be better than the crap we had to deal with the last few years under Stansbury. Ray may never get us there, but anyone that guarantees Stansbury would have eventually gotten us there is stupid and completely bias to the situation at hand. Look at the real issue you guys that are bashing Ray and tell me if you really think keeping Stansbury was in the best long term interest of our program.

[shannondawg]

Welcome back CDL. You get a clear view from the Great Wall?

[smootness]

This is why our fan base is dumb. Too ignorant to look at the big picture. Is there anyone on this board who doesn't think that if we had kept Stansbury that we would have had a better record over the past two years? I think it's pretty obvious we would. Josh Gray may be here, Wendell Lewis still here, Jalen Steele still here, few others maybe. Better record than the last two years pretty easily.

But people, THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE!! The issue here is would Stansbury have ever done better than his ceiling, which was 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament 1 time in 2007-2008. We had guys getting in fights in public, multiple failed drug tests, horrible NIT losses, and an overall bad national picture of our program (regardless of whether you think some of those talking heads are decent analysts or not, they are still on ESPN and them bashing us is in no way good for us).

We didn't ask to suck and we didn't ask for Ray to struggle. But what we did ask for is hope that our program would one day be better than the crap we had to deal with the last few years under Stansbury. Ray may never get us there, but anyone that guarantees Stansbury would have eventually gotten us there is stupid and completely bias to the situation at hand. Look at the real issue you guys that are bashing Ray and tell me if you really think keeping Stansbury was in the best long term interest of our program.

Really, really like your posts.

I will never understand why some can't see that we made the move to be able to have a chance to be better down the road, not to be better in years 1-2 of the post-Stans era.

[MetEdDawg]

Really, really like your posts.

I will never understand why some can't see that we made the move to be able to have a chance to be better down the road, not to be better in years 1-2 of the post-Stans era.

It's the garbage instant gratification world we live in. Hell I'm 25 and I'm the one that should be wanting instant results, but I'm way more realistic than that. People want results now and are too impatient. The whole point of this argument over our basketball team is being lost by the Ray bashers/Stans lovers. It's not whether or not we would be better this year or last year. That's entirely too short-sighted. It's whether or not Stansbury would have ever given us better. The answer to that question is no. We had 13 years of experience to base that opinion off of.

Did he do good things? Yeah nobody questions that. But this plan was long term rebuild from the ground up in order to have a chance down the road of greater success. The first two years weren't going to be pretty. Wish they were a little prettier but shit happens. This team is 4-6 wins better with Lewis and Steele because that is decently talented senior leadership and depth that we really could have used. That decision was made for them to be gone and I'm cool with that because it's the direction our program needs to go. But now we sit back and evaluate what happens next year. It's all on Ray next year and if he screws the pooch then we make the necessary changes and go from there.

[Coach34]

This is why our fan base is dumb. Too ignorant to look at the big picture. Is there anyone on this board who doesn't think that if we had kept Stansbury that we would have had a better record over the past two years? I think it's pretty obvious we would. Josh Gray may be here, Wendell Lewis still here, Jalen Steele still here, few others maybe. Better record than the last two years pretty easily.

But people, THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE!! The issue here is would Stansbury have ever done better than his ceiling, which was 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament 1 time in 2007-2008. We had guys getting in fights in public, multiple failed drug tests, horrible NIT losses, and an overall bad national picture of our program (regardless of whether you think some of those talking heads are decent analysts or not, they are still on ESPN and them bashing us is in no way good for us).

We didn't ask to suck and we didn't ask for Ray to struggle. But what we did ask for is hope that our program would one day be better than the crap we had to deal with the last few years under Stansbury. Ray may never get us there, but anyone that guarantees Stansbury would have eventually gotten us there is stupid and completely bias to the situation at hand. Look at the real issue you guys that are bashing Ray and tell me if you really think keeping Stansbury was in the best long term interest of our program.

yes, yes, yes

[mic]

Attendance is down in basketball all over the SEC.. I bet this will be the worse SEC tourney overall attendance in years .. The Big 10 schools and ACC schools have always outdrawn the SEC in hoops ..
Yes our attendance is down big time this year and the product on the court has a lot to do with that. But it was also noticeable the last few years of the Stands era also. Look where ALL other schools students sit at their home games.. Our students should be pissed with the sections they are allowed to sit in. Go back to when the hump was one of the hardest places to play and look at where the student sections were.. Give some of these seats back to the students. Most of the season ticket holders don't make the mid week home games anyway..

[shannondawg]

2nd round would look pretty dam good right now. In my opinion our final four run was a stroke of luck, with Princeton beating UCLA, or we would have not made it to the sweet 16.. Thought that then, think it now. I went out to the game in Oakland and saw us get beat up pretty bad by them out there the year before the final four run. If you remember our record wasn't all that outstanding the year we made it.

Everyone talks about a deep run in the tourney, but most of our fans calling for this don't really realize what it takes to get there. There are a lot more schools with a deeper history and support of their basketball programs with a lot tougher competition to hone those skills year in and year out and a lot deeper recruiting base..

Why aren't our expectations the same in football? We got to the SEC championship game one time, but no one keeps throwing that up as a failure each year we don't make it and hell that is just for the conference. I'll tell you why, cause coaches like Stansbury raised the bar on our expectations and now he is castigated for it.

And it will probably be that way in baseball this year with a lot of our fans, who are already ready to jump because we lost a few games and if we don't make the championship game again this year, will think our program is a bust.

Better stop and smell the roses after each win and savor them, cause it gonna be a long time between them now for a good many years.

[Coach34]

Coach, you got exactly what you had been screaming for over 8 years ago. Now own up to it and be a big boy and admit it was dumb.

What was dumb about it?

We have gotten rid of the drama and bullshit that has plagued this program for awhile.
We are losing like this now because of the shitty culture of the program he left.

The only thing I am disappointed in is the shortsightedness of many of our fans- like you. But of course, if I was in nursing home like you, I'd probably be shortsighted as well.

When you lose all 5 starters and hire a coach late like we did- and not have much else left in the program with a complete lack of discipline culture- this is what you get. This is what you Stands Lovers get for continuing to support his bullshit each year. You asked for this. And now Ray has to clean it up.

[thunderclap]

No kidding. At least Ravern was good for a flyaway dunk or three straight 3s at some point. This shit is just bad.

[HoopsDawg]

What was dumb about it?

We have gotten rid of the drama and bullshit that has plagued this program for awhile.
We are losing like this now because of the shitty culture of the program he left.

The only thing I am disappointed in is the shortsightedness of many of our fans- like you. But of course, if I was in nursing home like you, I'd probably be shortsighted as well.

When you lose all 5 starters and hire a coach late like we did- and not have much else left in the program with a complete lack of discipline culture- this is what you get. This is what you Stands Lovers get for continuing to support his bullshit each year. You asked for this. And now Ray has to clean it up.

What was all the drama and bullshit other than the Sidney fiasco? Transfers, failed drug tests? Please, that happens all over the country. The talented players we get to Mstate are going to have some character flaws otherwise they would sign with Duke. Timmy Bowers types don't grow on trees. Rick Ray realizes this that's why he tried to sign Quantel Denson. Stans brought in the talent to keep us relevant. The man could recruit. Let's not forget that Stans signed 3 NBA players that would have played at least one year at MSU under the current system: Monta Ellis, John Bender, and Travis Outlaw. Can Ray sign that type of player? Stan's career would have looked even better after having those players for one year each. Can Ray find transfers like L-Rob, Moultrie, and Shane Power? I think we are looking at a re-building process that may take a couple of coaches and 8-10 years and will anyone even care by that point?

[TheRef]

Look where ALL other schools students sit at their home games.. Our students should be pissed with the sections they are allowed to sit in. Go back to when the hump was one of the hardest places to play and look at where the student sections were.. Give some of these seats back to the students. Most of the season ticket holders don't make the mid week home games anyway..

At least let us take over the section for mid-week games. But I guess that would hurt too many feelings. I've been screaming for this for years, but no one cares about the students. The Ninja ****ed up the student section, that's on him.

[mic]

2nd round would look pretty dam good right now. In my opinion our final four run was a stroke of luck, with Princeton beating UCLA, or we would have not made it to the sweet 16.. Thought that then, think it now. I went out to the game in Oakland and saw us get beat up pretty bad by them out there the year before the final four run. If you remember our record wasn't all that outstanding the year we made it.

Everyone talks about a deep run in the tourney, but most of our fans calling for this don't really realize what it takes to get there. There are a lot more schools with a deeper history and support of their basketball programs with a lot tougher competition to hone those skills year in and year out and a lot deeper recruiting base..

Why aren't our expectations the same in football? We got to the SEC championship game one time, but no one keeps throwing that up as a failure each year we don't make it and hell that is just for the conference. I'll tell you why, cause coaches like Stansbury raised the bar on our expectations and now he is castigated for it.

And it will probably be that way in baseball this year with a lot of our fans, who are already ready to jump because we lost a few games and if we don't make the championship game again this year, will think our program is a bust.

Better stop and smell the roses after each win and savor them, cause it gonna be a long time between them now for a good many years.

Syracuse won 2 games at the buzzer that same tourney.. If they get upset we prob would have been in the finals.. It takes a little luck to get to elight 8, final 4 ect.. The fact that Stans never did get past the 2nd round with the talent he had still amazes me..

Most of you keep Blaming RR and basically only RR for where the program is now.. NO ONE would have come in here last year and won , and even if another coach had recruited a great class after his first year we still wouldn't have been tourney team this year. Im not saying RR gets a pass with some blame, but it should be handed out to Scott for the questionable hire, and the ex coach for leaving the program in the shape it was in..
If RR doesn't win next year , then I agree we need to look elsewhere for a coach. But the job will look much more appealing to whoever comes in here than it did 2 years ago..

[mic]

What was all the drama and bullshit other than the Sidney fiasco? Transfers, failed drug tests? Please, that happens all over the country. The talented players we get to Mstate are going to have some character flaws otherwise they would sign with Duke. Timmy Bowers types don't grow on trees. Rick Ray realizes this that's why he tried to sign Quantel Denson. Stans brought in the talent to keep us relevant. The man could recruit. Let's not forget that Stans signed 3 NBA players that would have played at least one year at MSU under the current system: Monta Ellis, John Bender, and Travis Outlaw. Can Ray sign that type of player? Stan's career would have looked even better after having those players for one year each. Can Ray find transfers like L-Rob, Moultrie, and Shane Power? I think we are looking at a re-building process that may take a couple of coaches and 8-10 years and will anyone even care by that point?

problem is those players aren't in the state and there hasn't been talent like that in a while. Besides Hood , who is the last sure fire NBA player to come from MS.?? Or for that matter players from the state that went pro in the last 15 years.. And everyone don't kid yourself MN wasn't coming here if Stans was still the coach. RR may not get him but Stans wasn't..

[MabenMaroon]

Look on the bright side, we are not in near as bad of shape as Boston College .... yet ....

[shannondawg]

problem is those players aren't in the state and there hasn't been talent like that in a while. Besides Hood , who is the last sure fire NBA player to come from MS.?? Or for that matter players from the state that went pro in the last 15 years.. And everyone don't kid yourself MN wasn't coming here if Stans was still the coach. RR may not get him but Stans wasn't..

I wouldn't have bet against Stans not getting Malik. If you so surre about that , you must know where he is going..

[Coach34]

I wouldn't have bet against Stans not getting Malik. If you so surre about that , you must know where he is going..

Webster told another former player Malik would never play for Stands

[whatever]

Webster told another former player Malik would never play for Stands

Sure he did... just like Hood was definitely not going to be here if Stans had stayed... Just like you nailed the prediction on who was going to be our coach after Stans.

[whatever]

This is why our fan base is dumb. Too ignorant to look at the big picture. Is there anyone on this board who doesn't think that if we had kept Stansbury that we would have had a better record over the past two years? I think it's pretty obvious we would. Josh Gray may be here, Wendell Lewis still here, Jalen Steele still here, few others maybe. Better record than the last two years pretty easily.

But people, THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE!! The issue here is would Stansbury have ever done better than his ceiling, which was 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament 1 time in 2007-2008. We had guys getting in fights in public, multiple failed drug tests, horrible NIT losses, and an overall bad national picture of our program (regardless of whether you think some of those talking heads are decent analysts or not, they are still on ESPN and them bashing us is in no way good for us).

We didn't ask to suck and we didn't ask for Ray to struggle. But what we did ask for is hope that our program would one day be better than the crap we had to deal with the last few years under Stansbury. Ray may never get us there, but anyone that guarantees Stansbury would have eventually gotten us there is stupid and completely bias to the situation at hand. Look at the real issue you guys that are bashing Ray and tell me if you really think keeping Stansbury was in the best long term interest of our program.

I totally get that we were trying to scrap everything in order to have a chance to be better in the future, but we're probably going to realize in the next 10 years that maybe having a ceiling of going to the 2nd round isn't that bad.

I'd rather have a coach that can put you in the NCAA's consistently, that way you're giving yourself a chance, and eventually maybe things will break your way and you'll break through...

Too many people think the NCAA 2nd rd was Stans' ceiling... Tom Osborne coached Nebraska for 21 years without winning a National Title, then won 2 in a row. I bet Nebraska fans thought after 20 years that they knew what they were getting with him too, and that he wouldn't ever break through and win the National Championship... Bobby Bowden coached for 22 years before he won his first NC.

If the ultimate goal is the Sweet 16, I'd rather go with a coach that has proven that he can get us within 1 game of that feat than start over with a coach (or a bunch of coaches in the future) that we have no idea if we'll even ever get the opportunity to get close to that level again

[Dawg61]

You just compared Stansbury to Tom Osborne and Bobby Bowden. Haha

[whatever]

No... just saying in general, just because someone hasn't reached the desired "milestone" that their fanbase has been clamoring over for 20 years, doesn't mean they've reached their ceiling and can't ever get there.

Their milestone happened to be a championship, Stans a Sweet 16

[mcdawg]

What was dumb about it?

We have gotten rid of the drama and bullshit that has plagued this program for awhile.
We are losing like this now because of the shitty culture of the program he left.

The only thing I am disappointed in is the shortsightedness of many of our fans- like you. But of course, if I was in nursing home like you, I'd probably be shortsighted as well.

When you lose all 5 starters and hire a coach late like we did- and not have much else left in the program with a complete lack of discipline culture- this is what you get. This is what you Stands Lovers get for continuing to support his bullshit each year. You asked for this. And now Ray has to clean it up.

Is this thread not "drama and bullshit"? As bad as you say it was, it is worse now. Our fans are split and nobody cares about basketball any more. That is a bigger problem than we had. You can say that some fans have "shortsidedness" because they don't agree with you. I say that reality is something you don't get - the reality is that our program is worse off now than it has ever been. Not just the losing, but the constant negativity and empty stands. I can understand when you argued that a change should be made, but I cannot understand you thinking now that we are better off. It will take a while (under Ray or another coach) before you get State fans interested in basketball again. I know guys that were big basketball fans that now cannot tell you when we play or even the players on the team.

[Dawg61]

No... just saying in general, just because someone hasn't reached the desired "milestone" that their fanbase has been clamoring over for 20 years, doesn't mean they've reached their ceiling and can't ever get there.

Their milestone happened to be a championship, Stans a Sweet 16

He got 14 years plus more as an assistant. How much is enough? It was time for change.

[Coach34]

I totally get that we were trying to scrap everything in order to have a chance to be better in the future, but we're probably going to realize in the next 10 years that maybe having a ceiling of going to the 2nd round isn't that bad.

We have a soothsayer in our midst...awesome.

[Coach34]

Sure he did... just like Hood was definitely not going to be here if Stans had stayed... Just like you nailed the prediction on who was going to be our coach after Stans.

Cant win them all- alot of people thought we were hiring Kenny Payne- as did Kenny that morning. Strick went a different direction at the end. I get more wrong than right- ask Melvin and Les Koenning

[shannondawg]

Webster told another former player Malik would never play for Stands

I know Horatio was a regular fixture up at the Mize Center Stans last year, I would not think he would be going around saying that while enjoying the hospitality as much as he did.. (and I didn't hear that from another former player)

By the way, has anybody on here ever even give credit to Stans for raising the money for that excellent facility. It took a lot of work and he and Wesley Reed really should be thanked for all that effort. Its a shame he only got to use it one season..

[WinningIsRelentless]

This is why our fan base is dumb. Too ignorant to look at the big picture. Is there anyone on this board who doesn't think that if we had kept Stansbury that we would have had a better record over the past two years? I think it's pretty obvious we would. Josh Gray may be here, Wendell Lewis still here, Jalen Steele still here, few others maybe. Better record than the last two years pretty easily.

But people, THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE!! The issue here is would Stansbury have ever done better than his ceiling, which was 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament 1 time in 2007-2008. We had guys getting in fights in public, multiple failed drug tests, horrible NIT losses, and an overall bad national picture of our program (regardless of whether you think some of those talking heads are decent analysts or not, they are still on ESPN and them bashing us is in no way good for us).

We didn't ask to suck and we didn't ask for Ray to struggle. But what we did ask for is hope that our program would one day be better than the crap we had to deal with the last few years under Stansbury. Ray may never get us there, but anyone that guarantees Stansbury would have eventually gotten us there is stupid and completely bias to the situation at hand. Look at the real issue you guys that are bashing Ray and tell me if you really think keeping Stansbury was in the best long term interest of our program.

Atleast we were relevant enough to be talked about on ESPN back then.

[Coach34]

I know Horatio was a regular fixture up at the Mize Center Stans last year, I would not think he would be going around saying that while enjoying the hospitality as much as he did.. (and I didn't hear that from another former player)

By the way, has anybody on here ever even give credit to Stans for raising the money for that excellent facility. It took a lot of work and he and Wesley Reed really should be thanked for all that effort. Its a shame he only got to use it one season..

A former player being wined and dined? Why wouldnt he soak some of that up? Parents of athletes do that all the time at different schools.

Absolutely a credit to Stands for getting that built. Just like it was a credit to Ray for getting that big donation for the lockerroom renovation.

[whatever]

We have a soothsayer in our midst...awesome.

I'm not one of those guys that's complaining right now, b/c I realize the situation that we're in and that it's gonna take awhile.

But I honestly don't see it ever getting to a point where we're making 11 postseasons in 14 years again, or 6 NCAA's in 8 years like we did at one point under Stans.

I'm all about giving Ray 4 years to see if he can bring in players. But the thing with Ray is, our "ceiling" in his 3rd and 4th years is looking like an NIT bid in one of those years (where you guys will all say "look we're improving! We made the NIT after a disastrous 1st 2 years!!!)

Let's say he barely misses the NIT next year and makes it in year 4, then we keep him because he's "improving." But then we lose our best players and our core of Ware, Thomas, and Sword after year 4 and we're rebuilding again in year 5 unless he brings in someone with more potential than those 3 players in between now and then, which isn't looking likely.

I'm not looking forward to rebuilding in year 5 after a ceiling of making the NIT his 1st four years.

[dawgs]

No what the problem is is that fans like you that think we should just grab a bunch of JUCOs and we will be magically better.


i mean, in all fairness, C34 is in another thread saying we win 4 or 5 more games by simply playing daniels, who didn't do anything special in juco and wasn't all that highly recruited (spare the wichita st offer please), and wouldn't have played a game in the 1st semester. so apparently C34 thinks we'd be magically better with 1 juco guy.

[dawgs]

Outstanding post...Gracias amigo

ha, i hadn't even goten to page 2 when i posted my response.


We would have been a much better team with Daniels and Ware inside during SEC play- with Borchert coming off the bench. Roq could have played the 3 some- and we could have actually had a big line-up out there in some games to match other teams. But Ray didnt do that- why?

Because what is best for the long term health of the program- win 3-4 more games this season? Or have Daniels and Ware playing together for the next 2 full seasons? Program building is never easy. But he made the right decision and we'll start seeing the benefits next year

2015 is on Ray and we'll see if he delivers

so do jucos make us magically better because they add depth, or is it dumb to just add some jucos for depth? i just wanna know which position i'm responding to at any given time.

[dawgs]

It's the garbage instant gratification world we live in. Hell I'm 25 and I'm the one that should be wanting instant results, but I'm way more realistic than that. People want results now and are too impatient. The whole point of this argument over our basketball team is being lost by the Ray bashers/Stans lovers. It's not whether or not we would be better this year or last year. That's entirely too short-sighted. It's whether or not Stansbury would have ever given us better. The answer to that question is no. We had 13 years of experience to base that opinion off of.

Did he do good things? Yeah nobody questions that. But this plan was long term rebuild from the ground up in order to have a chance down the road of greater success. The first two years weren't going to be pretty. Wish they were a little prettier but shit happens. This team is 4-6 wins better with Lewis and Steele because that is decently talented senior leadership and depth that we really could have used. That decision was made for them to be gone and I'm cool with that because it's the direction our program needs to go. But now we sit back and evaluate what happens next year. It's all on Ray next year and if he screws the pooch then we make the necessary changes and go from there.

rick ray skeptics =/= stansbury lovers.

[dawgs]

Syracuse won 2 games at the buzzer that same tourney.. If they get upset we prob would have been in the finals.. It takes a little luck to get to elight 8, final 4 ect.. The fact that Stans never did get past the 2nd round with the talent he had still amazes me..

Most of you keep Blaming RR and basically only RR for where the program is now.. NO ONE would have come in here last year and won , and even if another coach had recruited a great class after his first year we still wouldn't have been tourney team this year. Im not saying RR gets a pass with some blame, but it should be handed out to Scott for the questionable hire, and the ex coach for leaving the program in the shape it was in..
If RR doesn't win next year , then I agree we need to look elsewhere for a coach. But the job will look much more appealing to whoever comes in here than it did 2 years ago..

no one was disappointed with ray's coaching last year. i've been on the record multiple times saying that even coach K and roy williams would have only been able to get 1, maybe 2 more Ws out of that squad.

i think most of us had a time line of expectations that looked something like this:
year 1: expected disaster, just keep the ship afloat, play hard, etc. - expectations met
year 2: finish at .500 overall, with at least 6 conference Ws, continue to show improvement on the court and give good effort, solid recruiting class - expectations have NOT been met
year 3: compete for NIT, no excuse to miss the CBI, finish around .500 in the conference, continue to bring in talent
year 4: compete for NCAA, no excuse to miss the NIT, win 10 conference games, continue to bring in talent

obviously shit can change, but that's a rough outline of what i'd have charted my expectations over ray's 1st 4 years. imo we are a worse team now than we were last year (at the very least, we are no better), and that concerns me.