Richard Williams record

[Homedawg]

This thread isn't to say Rick Ray is equal to Richard Williams or anything close. It is just to show that Richard took a while to begin to compete and become successful. The major difference between the two is ray is following our all time winningest coach and we have shown we can be successful in the modern era. (I'm not like rebel football fans, the 60's don't count)! Coach Williams followed Boyd who had one decent team and that team had a nba all star on it. Anyway take a look at this remembering the sec only had 10 teams in the league at the beginning of Williams career.

86-87 7-21 10th in sec
87-88 14-15 10th
88-89 13-15 8th
89-90 16-14 8th nit
90-91 20-9 1st NCAA
91-92 15-13 4th in west
92-93 13-16 5th west
93-94 18-11 3rd west nit
94-95 22-8 t1st west NCAA
95-96 26-8 t1st west final 4
96-97 12-18 t3rd
97-98 15-15 5th.

Eta remember they both took over awful rosters but Williams probably took over one that was better than ray's.

[drunkernhelldawg]

3 good years

Losing in the first round of the Tourney in 91 still hurts. That was the year that MSU basketball came out of the dungeon. If I remember right, we beat an LSU team with Chris Jackson, Stanley Roberts, and Shaq to share the SEC title. Shaq sat that game out, but what a great game and what a great year.

Final Four year was interesting. State fans knew we were as good as anybody, but we actually fell out the rankings near mid season because of a few bad losses, including one to TSUN. Then the great, great, great win over KY in the SEC tourney. The run to the Final Four did not surprise me as I had been watching hoops constantly and I knew we could beat any team in the Top 20. The year before, we actually had an excellent team but we had the misfortune to be bracketed with UCLA, which was unbeatable in 1995. That was a Sweet 16 appearance, but we got beat so badly in the game that I'm not sure it was a positive.

UCLA was also key in our Final Four run as Princeton beat them on a last second shot to give us an easy game right when we needed it. Remember, Dontae Jones was nursing a stress fracture. We were fortunate to catch Princeton rather than UCLA for making that Sweet 16.

[shannondawg]

"UCLA was also key in our Final Four run as Princeton beat them on a last second shot to give us an easy game right when we needed it. Remember, Dontae Jones was nursing a stress fracture. We were fortunate to catch Princeton rather than UCLA for making that Sweet 16. "

Thanks for putting that in. People tend to forget that.

[Jack Lambert]

3 good years

Losing in the first round of the Tourney in 91 still hurts. That was the year that MSU basketball came out of the dungeon. If I remember right, we beat an LSU team with Chris Jackson, Stanley Roberts, and Shaq to share the SEC title. Shaq sat that game out, but what a great game and what a great year.

Final Four year was interesting. State fans knew we were as good as anybody, but we actually fell out the rankings near mid season because of a few bad losses, including one to TSUN. Then the great, great, great win over KY in the SEC tourney. The run to the Final Four did not surprise me as I had been watching hoops constantly and I knew we could beat any team in the Top 20. The year before, we actually had an excellent team but we had the misfortune to be bracketed with UCLA, which was unbeatable in 1995. That was a Sweet 16 appearance, but we got beat so badly in the game that I'm not sure it was a positive.

UCLA was also key in our Final Four run as Princeton beat them on a last second shot to give us an easy game right when we needed it. Remember, Dontae Jones was nursing a stress fracture. We were fortunate to catch Princeton rather than UCLA for making that Sweet 16.

Wasn't LSU real good back in the 80's? Also Williams over all record was not that great but he did get us to the final four and more and made up for it.

[Homedawg]

Lsu had some really good years. A couple of final fours when they shouldn't have. And a couple of collapses with loaded teams.

[bully99]

Dale Brown had some great talent that many times he screwed up. Media always hyped him as a great motivator.

There's a reason Bobby knight once said after playing lsu, that he was scared of losing, but he looked down at the other bench and saw Dale Brown coaching and he knew everything would ok.

[Coach34]

Williams took over a turd of a program. Shit- Delta State beat us, thats how bad it was. It was a bigtime building process. He and John Brady brought in the group that led us to the SEC title in 91 when they were Sr's. The thing with Williams was that he never could capitalize on winning. After 91, we had the lull until 95's Sweet 16 when NC UCLA put us out. Then the great 1996 run after that (I think we would have beaten UCLA even if Princeton hadnt). After 1996- we lost all 5 starters and fell off again until 1999- but Williams was forced to retire before getting to coach that team. The 1999 team should have been in the NCAA Tourney- Stands did a poor job there. But he did grow some as a HC and had a good run from 2002-2005

[bully99]

Where would the program be if Richard Williams had kept is britches on. I always wonder about that.

[drunkernhelldawg]

Williams took over a turd of a program. Shit- Delta State beat us, thats how bad it was. It was a bigtime building process. He and John Brady brought in the group that led us to the SEC title in 91 when they were Sr's. The thing with Williams was that he never could capitalize on winning. After 91, we had the lull until 95's Sweet 16 when NC UCLA put us out. Then the great 1996 run after that (I think we would have beaten UCLA even if Princeton hadnt). After 1996- we lost all 5 starters and fell off again until 1999- but Williams was forced to retire before getting to coach that team. The 1999 team should have been in the NCAA Tourney- Stands did a poor job there. But he did grow some as a HC and had a good run from 2002-2005

I do agree that we could have beat UCLA in 96. My point is that we needed a less demanding game at that point in the touney to give us the rest and healing we needed to beat Cincy and UConn and go into the Final Four. I totally agree with our failure to build on success being a critical issue, especially the horrible 1996-1997 season.

[Homedawg]

Williams took over a turd of a program. Shit- Delta State beat us, thats how bad it was. It was a bigtime building process. He and John Brady brought in the group that led us to the SEC title in 91 when they were Sr's. The thing with Williams was that he never could capitalize on winning. After 91, we had the lull until 95's Sweet 16 when NC UCLA put us out. Then the great 1996 run after that (I think we would have beaten UCLA even if Princeton hadnt). After 1996- we lost all 5 starters and fell off again until 1999- but Williams was forced to retire before getting to coach that team. The 1999 team should have been in the NCAA Tourney- Stands did a poor job there. But he did grow some as a HC and had a good run from 2002-2005

Exactly! So the people who want ray run off now,I assume, would have wanted Williams run after two years as well. He didn't have a winning record until year 4! Those same people would have never seen the 96 final four run bc we would have been starting over again! The parallels are really amazing. And don't jump one saying when are we going to the final 4! I'm not saying that will ever happen again.

[tcdog70]

Exactly! So the people who want ray run off now,I assume, would have wanted Williams run after two years as well. He didn't have a winning record until year 4! Those same people would have never seen the 96 final four run bc we would have been starting over again! The parallels are really amazing. And don't jump one saying when are we going to the final 4! I'm not saying that will ever happen again.


Hmmm, let's think about that. Dick comes along after Bob Boyd and several years of shitty. So expectations of good Basketball are pretty Low. Ray Comes along after the winniest era in MSU History and replaces a Coach that most of the MSU fan base was Ok with. The parallels aren't so amazing.

[Coach34]

Exactly! So the people who want ray run off now,I assume, would have wanted Williams run after two years as well. He didn't have a winning record until year 4! Those same people would have never seen the 96 final four run bc we would have been starting over again! The parallels are really amazing. And don't jump one saying when are we going to the final 4! I'm not saying that will ever happen again.

Here is where the divide comes in:

The Pro-Stands people and others feel like Stands had elevated the program and it's Ray's fault we suck now. They literally lay no blame on Stands. They fail to realize that even if we had kept Stands on another season- he was going to struggle and end up with 15-16 wins at best. And we would still have the same drama and bullshit he had every season.

Then you have the people that may not be so much Pro-Stands- but they are incapable of understanding what a rebuilding job Ray has had since arriving. They blame everything but Cohen bunting in the 3rd inning on Ray. So that is why you see stupid comments like "he's had 2 years to recruit" (when in fact Ray hasnt even had the job 2 years yet) and "only a shitty coach wouldnt have a full roster" right now. My favorite is when they say Ray should have signed more people last year- that really shows an absolute non-understanding of what is going on.

And finally, you have Me, Engie, and few others that realize Ray inherited a turd and is trying to chicken salad. We simply had to blow it up and start over because of the problems the previous regime let fester. Doing that cost us a couple of seasons- but we should be better in the long run for doing it. I'm not saying Ray is the guy and is going to lead us to the Promise Land- but you cant judge him fairly until you see what he does the next 2 years.

He is going to get 4 years folks- you might as well go support them some next Winter. Create some home court advantage so maybe we can get some more wins and get better recruits in here.

[Homedawg]

Hmmm, let's think about that. Dick comes along after Bob Boyd and several years of shitty. So expectations of good Basketball are pretty Low. Ray Comes along after the winniest era in MSU History and replaces a Coach that most of the MSU fan base was Ok with. The parallels aren't so amazing.

I think I pointed that out in the initial post that Ray was following the all time winningest coach. Expectations higher yes, piles of crap they took over remarkably equal.

[HoopsDawg]

Here is where the divide comes in:

The Pro-Stands people and others feel like Stands had elevated the program and it's Ray's fault we suck now. They literally lay no blame on Stands. They fail to realize that even if we had kept Stands on another season- he was going to struggle and end up with 15-16 wins at best. And we would still have the same drama and bullshit he had every season.

Then you have the people that may not be so much Pro-Stands- but they are incapable of understanding what a rebuilding job Ray has had since arriving. They blame everything but Cohen bunting in the 3rd inning on Ray. So that is why you see stupid comments like "he's had 2 years to recruit" (when in fact Ray hasnt even had the job 2 years yet) and "only a shitty coach wouldnt have a full roster" right now. My favorite is when they say Ray should have signed more people last year- that really shows an absolute non-understanding of what is going on.

And finally, you have Me, Engie, and few others that realize Ray inherited a turd and is trying to chicken salad. We simply had to blow it up and start over because of the problems the previous regime let fester. Doing that cost us a couple of seasons- but we should be better in the long run for doing it. I'm not saying Ray is the guy and is going to lead us to the Promise Land- but you cant judge him fairly until you see what he does the next 2 years.

He is going to get 4 years folks- you might as well go support them some next Winter. Create some home court advantage so maybe we can get some more wins and get better recruits in here.

Ray has had opportunities to bring in players. He said his first mission was to keep Hood. Hood gave him a chance to make a sales pitch. He even allowed Ray to put him through an individual workout and Ray couldn't keep him. Then he brought in Borchert, Applewhite, Davis, and Bloodman in his first class none of who are really BCS level players. His 2nd class he signs Ready, Ndoye, and Daniels that's it. And only Ready is eligible to play. So he brings in 1 player. Now his 3rd class has Dunlap, Black and Houston. They all have their issues that prevented them from being elite prospects. Houston is the best of the bunch but he can't shoot from 3.

[Coach34]

His "1st class" class as you call it was leftovers signed in late April after getting the job. That's not a recruiting class- those guys are called roster fillers. If a good recruit is still available in late April- you have to ask yourself why.

So he has really had 1 signing class that he has recruited. Next year his 2nd class will take the floor. And we will see better results.

[Homedawg]

His "1st class" class as you call it was leftovers signed in late April after getting the job. That's not a recruiting class- those guys are called roster fillers. If a good recruit is still available in late April- you have to ask yourself why.

So he has really had 1 signing class that he has recruited. Next year his 2nd class will take the floor. And we will see better results.

Why can people not understand this? Plus basketball recruiting, more so than football, is 18 months out. So he and his staff were behind on the class of Daniels, ready etc. they had 6 months to put that together. That's not enough time to beat teams out of kids who have been being recruited for years by other programs.

[smootness]

His "1st class" class as you call it was leftovers signed in late April after getting the job. That's not a recruiting class- those guys are called roster fillers. If a good recruit is still available in late April- you have to ask yourself why.

So he has really had 1 signing class that he has recruited. Next year his 2nd class will take the floor. And we will see better results.

And really it will be the first time we've seen much of anyone, outside of Ready obviously, from either of his first two classes. So all this talk about Ray not bringing in talent is because of 2 things: a) the guys he has signed aren't rated extremely highly; and b) they're upset that 2 of his 3 signees last year didn't play this year.

And my view is, who cares if they didn't play this year? We weren't going to be good this year no matter what. They will both be playing next year, and that's fine with me. As for their ratings, no, the classes don't impress you much on paper. But we'll see. And that is the point of everyone defending Ray...'we'll see'. Not, 'we're going to be amazing'....just 'we'll see'. He is owed the time to really prove himself.

As far as counting Hood against him, that's just a joke used only by those who are trying to find a way to criticize him. You could also look at that and say he was able to get a guy who had pretty much decided to leave during the previous season to agree to a workout with Ray as a last chance to let him change his mind against going to Duke to be coached by Coach K....that changes the whole scenario. So with Hood, either he ran off our best player once he got to campus by being an all-around terrible coach; or he was so impressive that Hood actually considered staying for a little while after already making up his mind to go elsewhere.

So once again, we don't know and we'll see.

[Coach34]

Why can people not understand this? .

they understand it- but it doesn't help their agenda, so they pretend that a good coach could find some ballers in the leftovers

[Maroonthirteen]

Preface; Stans had seemingly lost control of the program at the end. So, even though I give a lot of credit to Stansbury for nearly all of our success in the 90s and 00s, he left the University no choice really with the handling of Renardo and that bunch.

My point, love him, hate him, spin the facts to fit your agenda.........whatever. Fact remains MSU basketball has only been successful under Babe McCarthy and Rick Stansbury. Sure, Williams and Brady built the 90-91 team. Stansbury and Williams built the later 90s team. Until we get a guy in here that can recruit his ass off like Stansbury.......we are a bottom half SEC team. It remains to be seen if Ray has what it takes to land the talent. Ray is a good coach. Question is can he recruit. Anybody that has coached any sport from park rec teams to professional teams will tell you, you have to have some talent. I am not saying we should NOT have fired Stansbury. I am not saying fire Ray now. He does deserve another year. However, I just keep wondering how John Brady can be at Arkansas State and not want another SEC job? I have no idea what the situation is/was with Brady.....but just my thought.

[Coach34]

Preface; Stans had seemingly lost control of the program at the end. So, even though I give a lot of credit to Stansbury for nearly all of our success in the 90s and 00s, he left the University no choice really with the handling of Renardo and that bunch.

My point, love him, hate him, spin the facts to fit your agenda.........whatever. Fact remains MSU basketball has only been successful under Babe McCarthy and Rick Stansbury. Sure, Williams and Brady built the 90-91 team. Stansbury and Williams built the later 90s team. Until we get a guy in here that can recruit his ass off like Stansbury.......we are a bottom half SEC team. It remains to be seen if Ray has what it takes to land the talent. Ray is a good coach. Question is can he recruit. Anybody that has coached any sport from park rec teams to professional teams will tell you, you have to have some talent. I am not saying we should NOT have fired Stansbury. I am not saying fire Ray now. He does deserve another year. However, I just keep wondering how John Brady can be at Arkansas State and not want another SEC job? I have no idea what the situation is/was with Brady.....but just my thought.

levelheaded post- thanks

Brady is an asshole that doesnt work well with others. Like Williams, knows alot about basketball, but hates the bullshit associated with recruiting for the most part.

[Homedawg]

Preface; Stans had seemingly lost control of the program at the end. So, even though I give a lot of credit to Stansbury for nearly all of our success in the 90s and 00s, he left the University no choice really with the handling of Renardo and that bunch.

My point, love him, hate him, spin the facts to fit your agenda.........whatever. Fact remains MSU basketball has only been successful under Babe McCarthy and Rick Stansbury. Sure, Williams and Brady built the 90-91 team. Stansbury and Williams built the later 90s team. Until we get a guy in here that can recruit his ass off like Stansbury.......we are a bottom half SEC team. It remains to be seen if Ray has what it takes to land the talent. Ray is a good coach. Question is can he recruit. Anybody that has coached any sport from park rec teams to professional teams will tell you, you have to have some talent. I am not saying we should NOT have fired Stansbury. I am not saying fire Ray now. He does deserve another year. However, I just keep wondering how John Brady can be at Arkansas State and not want another SEC job? I have no idea what the situation is/was with Brady.....but just my thought.

Agreed. Ultimately, the incoming class of fr and the upcoming class we sign in nov will determine RRay's fate. If those are capable players and he wins with them, he will be our coach. If he can't, we will fire him and try again.

[cujo]

If TJ Honore had been our PG in '96, Williams would have a NC to his credit

[Coach34]

If TJ Honore had been our PG in '96, Williams would have a NC to his credit

Bullard sure picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue

[LeakyD]

The '96 team also could've included Marcus Mann who was drafted out of MVSU. He transferred to ECCC after a couple of weeks at State. He led the nation in rebounding in 95-96. He would've been a pretty good upgrade from Walters, but you never know how he would've fit in.