Is this basketball team improved?

[engie]

Going down the SEC standings:
vs SEC#1
2013: -35, -25(-30avg)
2014: -11
19 point avg improvement

vs SEC#2
2013: -30
2014: -10, -22(-16avg)
14 point avg improvement

vs SEC#3
2013: -32, -8(-20 avg)
2014: -20, -21(-20.5 avg)
0.5 point avg drop off

vs SEC#4
2013: -18, +6(-6 avg)
2014: -4
2 point avg improvement

vs SEC#5
2013: -25, -16(-20.5 avg)
2014: -7
13.5 point avg improvement

vs SEC#6
2013: -42
2014: -19
23 point avg improvement

vs SEC#7
2013: -26
2014: -19
7 point avg improvement

Shown the save average improvement from last year to this year -- we go 4-6 next year against the top 7 in the league. Not that I necessarily expect that to transpire -- but as frustrated as everyone is right now -- and our improvement not being reflected in record -- I think everyone needs to at least see the data set and decide for themselves.

Ray really, really needs to pull something together and steal 1-2 here at the end of the year...

[Coach34]

Nope, cause we dont have 13 players

[tcdog70]

45 points

[601Dawg]

It's all about W's and L's in the long run.

[Dawg61]

Nope, cause we dont have 13 players

How many we going to have after transfers/quits/kicked off/non-qualified? We've got 12 right now and only 7 have played D1 basketball before.

[Political Hack]

this ain't football. the amount you lose by tells you little about the game or talent level. Unless the game was within 8-10 points the other team controlled us. I'm tired of being controlled.

[tcdog70]

You lock Raytoraids thread but let this POS thread go?

[engie]

It's all about W's and L's in the long run.

In the long run.

Not in the second year of what everyone knew on the front end was a 2 year rebuild.

[engie]

You lock Raytoraids thread but let this POS thread go?

You probably honestly believe the two threads are similar, don't you?

[BeardoMSU]

It's all about W's and L's in the long run.

Not when those extra "W's" come against special-Olympic-simple-Jack teams like we played this year.

[tcdog70]

You probably honestly believe the two threads are similar, don't you?
The other thread was worth discussing. This thread is just another , you fart and 34 tells us how good it smells

[CadaverDawg]

you fart and 34 tells us how good it smells

I laughed

[whosyourdawgy]

MISS 82-63 that's 19

FLA 62-51 that's 11

VAN 55-49 that's 6

TA&M 72-52 that's 20

UK 69-59 that's 10

UGA 75-55 that's 20

AUB 92-82 that's 10

LSU 92-81 that's 11

ARK 73-69 that's 4

TENN 75-68 that's 7

MIZZ 85-66 that's 19

UGA 66-45 that's 21

If that's not bad enough, just look at where we rank on this link. Engie, you are the numbers king but I don't care what numbers you put up there. We are an aweful basketball team. PERIOD!

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/344/mississippi-state-bulldogs

[BogeyGolfer]

I'm honestly getting a kick out of watching you and coach try to justify our awful basketball program. In the end we all know the outcome for Ray.... He will be replaced, I hope soon for the sake of the program.

[engie]

If that's not bad enough, just look at where we rank on this link. Engie, you are the numbers king but I don't care what numbers you put up there. We are an aweful basketball team. PERIOD!

Nobody said we weren't.

Still much improved compared to last year. And my stats basically prove that -- while negating SOS. In reality, the SEC is stronger this year than it was last year as well.

[Irondawg]

While we've shown some measure of improvement offensively lately (last night's stinker excluded) our defensive effort seems to have slacked off as well.

[engie]

I'm honestly getting a kick out of watching you and coach try to justify our awful basketball program. In the end we all know the outcome for Ray.... He will be replaced, I hope soon for the sake of the program.

Of course he will be replaced. That's a safe assumption assuming the world doesn't end anytime soon. We don't know if that's next year or 15 years from now.

I'm not "justifying" anything -- other than the fact that we're better than we were last year -- and he's getting a 3rd year in what was obviously going to be a 2+ year rebuild -- at which point, the reasonable among us can actually start judging him based on his own merits instead of the shitty situation he inherited.

[engie]

While we've shown some measure of improvement offensively lately (last night's stinker excluded) our defensive effort seems to have slacked off as well.

This team's legs are gone -- and have been for awhile. That's why we are winning first halves only to be blown out in second halves. That's what happens when you don't have enough depth over an entire season.

Does anybody actually think De'Runnya is as good as Ware? Yet we get better defensively when he comes in the game right now. That's because he's one of the only members of the team that has fresh legs.

I agree that the defensive effort hasn't been good at all lately. And it's cause for concern -- just like it was when Cohen's second team QUIT on him down the stretch. Year 3 will tell the story...

[Coach34]

I'm honestly getting a kick out of watching you and coach try to justify our awful basketball program. In the end we all know the outcome for Ray.... He will be replaced, I hope soon for the sake of the program.

Ray is going to get 4 years- it's pretty much locked in

[Vandownbytheriver]

So, because we are getting our ass kicked by less points than last year we should be happy? We are still losing. A lot.

[biggun]

This team, just like last year's team, has very little legitamite talent. Not one of our starting 5 could start for just about every SEC team and the SEC is a weak basketball conference!!!! Gavin has a 3 inch vertical, Sword can't shoot outside of a layup, Borchert is a head case and the rest are not relevant.

We need BETTER TALENT to win games which means we better start playing the game again in recruiting like we did under Stans or it won't matter if Coach K comes here because you can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh**!!!! The Jocks and Joes win the games, not the X and O's!!!!!

[HoopsDawg]

This team's legs are gone -- and have been for awhile. That's why we are winning first halves only to be blown out in second halves. That's what happens when you don't have enough depth over an entire season.

...

Oh, is that why.

[engie]

So, because we are getting our ass kicked by less points than last year we should be happy? We are still losing. A lot.

Where did I tell you how you should react to the information? I simply provided it. Primarily as a data set for the people trying to decide whether or not we are worse than we were last year...

[thunderclap]

I'm curious why Ray supposedly gets 4 years, no questions asked. If Stricklin made him that deal, then he's as big a dubmass as LT who told Croom "the first five years don't matter." I'm all about giving a guy some rope, but if he's sitting on a 4-year cushion and he knows it, then we are stupid.

[engie]

I think next year will tell the story on him. Strick can "tell" him whatever he wants -- but the fact is -- if we aren't MUCH improved in year 3 -- they are BOTH going to be feeling the heat...

[Coach34]

I think next year will tell the story on him. Strick can "tell" him whatever he wants -- but the fact is -- if we aren't MUCH improved in year 3 -- they are BOTH going to be feeling the heat...

People can bitch all they want but Keenum has his back on this. Ray is going to get 4 years

[SouthMsDawg]

People can bitch all they want but Keenum has his back on this. Ray is going to get 4 years


I strongly disagree. IF we have another losing season next year and have less than 2K warm bodies in seats for home games I have to believe that Ray will be fired.

Croom lost some bad games but he actually beat Florida, Alabama, Auburn, etc.. while he was at State. Ray on the other hand's marquee win is against Ole Miss a team who has only won once in the Hump in like 20 years.

[Coach34]

I strongly disagree. IF we have another losing season next year and have less than 2K warm bodies in seats for home games I have to believe that Ray will be fired.

Croom lost some bad games but he actually beat Florida, Alabama, Auburn, etc.. while he was at State. Ray on the other hand's marquee win is against Ole Miss a team who has only won once in the Hump in like 20 years.

You can disagree all you want- this comes out of the offices. Unless Ray wins something like 8 games next year- he will get a 4th season

[engie]

I strongly disagree. IF we have another losing season next year and have less than 2K warm bodies in seats for home games I have to believe that Ray will be fired.

Croom lost some bad games but he actually beat Florida, Alabama, Auburn, etc.. while he was at State. Ray on the other hand's marquee win is against Ole Miss a team who has only won once in the Hump in like 20 years.

I'm with you on this Al. If we aren't an NIT team or very close next year -- a move SHOULD be made -- and the VAST MAJORITY of our fanbase would make their ears bleed about it at that point. Stricklin holds him for 4 if there isn't drastic improvement next year, he will be putting his own job on the line IMO...

[whosyourdawgy]

Let us finish 13-22 or something next season and then tell me he gets a 4th year. Only way he saves his job is to show improvement in the W column. The only reason we have 3 more wins this year is we played some absolute dogs to get there.

[Irondawg]

Engie - I can buy the dead legs to some degree but we have more depth than last year and we've slipped defensively. Looking at the conference only #'s from last year to this:

MSU PPG: Up 6 vs 2013
OPP PPG: Up 1.2

MSU FG%: up 2.8% but still only 42.1%
OPP FG% up 1% (47%)

MSU Assist/Turnover: up .3 (almost to even at .9)

So we are improved offensively which should have been a given with all the freshmen developing but we're worse defensively which is a surprise given that the SEC isn't really any better, we have a little more depth, we're turning it over less and we're shooting better which means more chances to set up the defense. Instead we still have the worst FG% defense in the league.

[maroonmania]

You can disagree all you want- this comes out of the offices. Unless Ray wins something like 8 games next year- he will get a 4th season

I really disagree with this. Heck, we are terrible this year and have won 13 games and won 10 with a terrible team last year but tougher non-conference schedule. I don't know the difficulty of the schedule for next year but regardless I don't see how Ray keeps the support he needs unless we win 6-7 SEC games. I mean going 6-12 or 7-11 in a league as weak as the SEC has become is not asking that much in the 3rd year of a coach's tenure. We would really have to be playing well down the stretch to have a record any worse than that and still keep Ray on the job.

[Coach34]

which is a surprise given that the SEC isn't really any better,

The SEC has actually improved alot

3 NCAA bids last year and OM doesnt get in without winning the SEC Tourney most likely. 3 NIT bids

This year, the SEC looks like a 4 bid league and the overall #1 seed. Then you probably have at least 3 getting in the NIT.

[Coach34]

I really disagree with this. Heck, we are terrible this year and have won 13 games and won 10 with a terrible team last year but tougher non-conference schedule. I don't know the difficulty of the schedule for next year but regardless I don't see how Ray keep the support he needs unless we win 6-7 SEC games. I mean going 6-12 or 7-11 in a league as weak as the SEC has become is not asking that much in the 3rd year of a coach's tenure. We would really have to be playing well down the stretch to have a record any worse than that and still keep Ray on the job.

Here's where the disconnect is though. I'm hearing last year wasnt even counted against Ray. They knew it was a cluster**** that was going to have to be cleaned up. So while Joe Fan bitches all day about last season still and gets mad at Ray- the decision makers blame Stands for the program being in that condition. They thank Ray for getting rid of the Smith's, Zedakis, and Lewis types that made the program smell.

So this is basically Year 1 in the eyes of the decision-makers. He will get his 4 years unless something unforeseen happens next year

[starkvegasdawg]

This team's legs are gone -- and have been for awhile. That's why we are winning first halves only to be blown out in second halves. That's what happens when you don't have enough depth over an entire season.

Does anybody actually think De'Runnya is as good as Ware? Yet we get better defensively when he comes in the game right now. That's because he's one of the only members of the team that has fresh legs.

I agree that the defensive effort hasn't been good at all lately. And it's cause for concern -- just like it was when Cohen's second team QUIT on him down the stretch. Year 3 will tell the story...

Here's a question I have and I have not looked it up so I don't know. Are all of our bench players seeing minutes or are players like Bear still riding the pine all 40 minutes? If our legs are gone in the second half then I would think a fresh Bear would be better than an exhausted player that can barely stand up much less run.

[TexasDawg]

The SEC has actually improved alot

3 NCAA bids last year and OM doesnt get in without winning the SEC Tourney most likely. 3 NIT bids

This year, the SEC looks like a 4 bid league and the overall #1 seed. Then you probably have at least 3 getting in the NIT.

That would be good enough to rank for 7th among conferences. The SEC is definitely down in basketball

[Coach34]

That would be good enough to rank for 7th among conferences. The SEC is definitely down in basketball

not saying it isnt- I'm saying it has improved a good deal over last year

[RougeDawg]

You can disagree all you want- this comes out of the offices. Unless Ray wins something like 8 games next year- he will get a 4th season

This team would win more than 8 next year if Ray were banished to the moon this summer. If Ray is granted a 4th yr without being competitive in all SEC games and at .500 in a shit conference, we can shut down the bball progr after 2016 spring. It'll be too GD far down the shutter for even a God himself to fix. This team is worse now than any point under Ray. Nothing I or any other realistically minded person has led me to believe it will ever get better. Our talent sucks and Ray isn't bringing in any game changers. The roster issues fall solely on Ray. He's a D1 SEC basketball coach. There's no excuse to not get it done and fill a roster. By