Explain to me how Ray is a "lazy recruiter"?

[Coach34]

I've seen this mentioned here and other sites and I dont understand it.

To me- a lazy recruiter is one that just tells his people to purchase Recruit A or Recruit B. Buy their love.

I dont see this staff doing that. They are out working their ass off to get people here on campus that dont have their hand out. Thats seems to me like its a much harder and labor-intensive route to recruiting...

Oh, andi can tell ya no coach has been to more Malik Newman games than Ray

[DownwardDawg]

Lazy recruiter = Croom

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

He isn't bringing in good enough players....

[C222]

He isn't bringing in good enough players....

2015 class is pretty good.

[SouthMsDawg]

He has yet to sign or get a commitment from a 4 star or top 100 recruit

[SouthMsDawg]

2015 class is pretty good.

All role players no superstar in either the 2014 or 2015 classes.

[mic]

He has yet to sign or get a commitment from a 4 star or top 100 recruit

Every UK recruit 2 years ago was a top 50 and they couldn't make the NCAA.. Just because he hasn't got a top 100 guy yet doesn't mean he is lazy.. And he has been here LESS than 2 years. He has 2 of the top 5 in the state this year..

[smootness]

I think Dante Scott has the potential to be far more than a role player.

And sure, his recruiting hasn't blown anyone away yet. How in the world does that mean he's lazy? That's stupid.

But the problem with this thread was taking Dawg61 seriously to begin with. I have yet to find anyone with a negative opinion of Ray who hasn't, over time, proven himself to be so over-the-top with his negative opinion that he didn't give himself away as just being anti-Ray from the beginning.

No one who is legitimately going to give Ray a fair shake has made up his mind yet.

[Coach34]

He has yet to sign or get a commitment from a 4 star or top 100 recruit

That in no way means he is a "lazy recruiter"

[mic]

All role players no superstar in either the 2014 or 2015 classes.

How do you know they arent.??? Stands didn't even offer Summers at OM. He will prob get drafted in 2015.. He was a 3* from Mississippi..

[Irondawg]

Well ineffective and lazy are two different things. And even then we don't know if he can properly evaluate talent and just not bring them in (ineffective) or if he doesn't judge talent well (ineffecient).

Personally I thought Ready, which thusfar is really the only guy we can judge on, was going to provide a big boost. His highlights seemed to show some skill, but I haven't seen much of that thusfar. And he's had a number of injuries which make it tough to judge as well.

Bottom line is that we know we suck but we really I don't think have much of a clue on what we have or don't have other than he's not as lax with the team rules as many coaches probably are.

Next year will allow us to really start making some semi-valid judgements.

[fishwater99]

That in no way means he is a "lazy recruiter"

I agree, doesn't mean he is lazy and I don't think he is lazy. Ray is just not a good recruiter to date at MSU.

[DownwardDawg]

Ray seems to be the opposite of lazy.

[Dawg61]

He has 2 of the top 5 in the state this year..

Who are these two Mr. Wonderlic? Black plays in Florida. Wonder where Black ranks in Florida talent?

[maroonmania]

That in no way means he is a "lazy recruiter"

Well it would mean he is not an effective recruiter. In the end all that matters is the quality of player you sign, lazy recruiting or not.

[Coach34]

Well it would mean he is not an effective recruiter. In the end all that matters is the quality of player you sign, lazy recruiting or not.

He's put one recruiting class on the court. Hard to say what he is at this point- but it damn sure aint "lazy"

[mic]

Who are these two Mr. Wonderlic? Black plays in Florida. Wonder where Black ranks in Florida talent?

And I bet he has improved as a player since transferring to Im sure a much better school.. So yes I considered him a MS rated player in the top 5 since we he signed with us while he was still in MS..

Mr Wonderlic.??? Look if you want to go on the spirit or 24/7 and go back and forth with Dahatriggerman (most of you all know who he is) then go over there and let him have it.. Just don't post stuff that makes u seem like your 15. And my apologies to all you of you good 15yr old posters if you are on here.... No disrespect intended..

[Dawg61]

Look at the little details with Ray's recruiting to see the laziness. Troutman still doesn't have an offer from us. People want to discredit Troutman as a good enough player? Alright fine but WHO is Ray offering his 13th scholarship to? I'll hang up and listen.

Ray is lazy because he hasn't brought in immediate help when he needs it the most. Wasn't Colin Borchert placed at EMCC by Stansbury? Ray is about to get shitcanned and yet he still is on the slow molasses train to better your basketball program through years of suck and hustle. Where's the urgency to get immediate help? I haven't seen it since he showed up on campus yet he's quick to throw the ones Stansbury had out of his program.

[tcdog70]

he might be the hardest working Recruiter in the SEC. But if that is so, then it means He is the worst recruiter in The SEC. The Bottom Line is this--So Far His recruiting has nothing to hang His Hat ON. Ready, is that His claim to Fame. He might be better off in Claiming Lazy as opposed to Shitty.

[thf24]

All role players no superstar in either the 2014 or 2015 classes.

How do you define "superstar?" Stansbury only had a handful of players who could even come close to being called "superstars" in fifteen years, and you expect Ray to be recruiting them already? Besides, many of Stansbury's best players were either "role players" or lightly recruited.

I'm not trying to make this another Stansbury issue by the way, I'm just not extremely knowledgeable about MSU basketball before the late 90's and don't have much else to compare to.

[Coach34]

Look at the little details with Ray's recruiting to see the laziness. Troutman still doesn't have an offer from us. People want to discredit Troutman as a good enough player? Alright fine but WHO is Ray offering his 13th scholarship to? I'll hang up and listen.

Ray is lazy because he hasn't brought in immediate help when he needs it the most. Wasn't Colin Borchert placed at EMCC by Stansbury? Ray is about to get shitcanned and yet he still is on the slow molasses train to better your basketball program through years of suck and hustle. Where's the urgency to get immediate help? I haven't seen it since he showed up on campus yet he's quick to throw the ones Stansbury had out of his program.

A) Troutman doesnt have an offer because we are considering other players- are you that dense on this?

B) Just like Cohen- we arent going for the quick-fix but building the program the way it should be. It's not hard to figure out.

There is more to program building than just finding someone and signing them at the last minute

[C222]

Look at the little details with Ray's recruiting to see the laziness. Troutman still doesn't have an offer from us. People want to discredit Troutman as a good enough player? Alright fine but WHO is Ray offering his 13th scholarship to? I'll hang up and listen.

Ray is lazy because he hasn't brought in immediate help when he needs it the most. Wasn't Colin Borchert placed at EMCC by Stansbury? Ray is about to get shitcanned and yet he still is on the slow molasses train to better your basketball program through years of suck and hustle. Where's the urgency to get immediate help? I haven't seen it since he showed up on campus yet he's quick to throw the ones Stansbury had out of his program.

Jackson Davis.

[mic]

I wonder if Stans was still here or if we had hired another coach besides RR if Stanley would be making his way down to Starkville to play football and basketball.???? Will ES every play hoops or if he does be a difference maker on the court maybe / maybe not.. But if RR didn't have a little hand in this he wouldn't be playing Football on saturdays in the near future here either...

[mic]

How do you define "superstar?" Stansbury only had a handful of players who could even come close to being called "superstars" in fifteen years, and you expect Ray to be recruiting them already? Besides, many of Stansbury's best players were either "role players" or lightly recruited.

I'm not trying to make this another Stansbury issue by the way, I'm just not extremely knowledgeable about MSU basketball before the late 90's and don't have much else to compare to.

and 2 of his top players were via transfers..

[Dawg61]

Jackson Davis.

Great so who is Ray offering his 13th scholarship to that will actually sign it? We have a better chance with Malik Newman than Jackson Davis.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20140301/SPORTS11/303010033/Recruiting-Insider-Lafayette-basketball-s-Jackson-Davis-getting-lot-attention-now

[C222]

Great so who is Ray offering his 13th scholarship to that will actually sign it? We have a better chance with Malik Newman than Jackson Davis.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20140301/SPORTS11/303010033/Recruiting-Insider-Lafayette-basketball-s-Jackson-Davis-getting-lot-attention-now

So you want superstars but you don't want him going after superstars?? Got it.

[Dawg61]

So you want superstars but you don't want him going after superstars?? Got it.

I do want superstars and I'm glad he's going after him but like I've already said twenty times before I want Ray to fill up his entire roster. 13 scholarship players. By game 1 of 2014. He can't do it. I've called him out ten months before his due date and he still won't get it done. This is why Ray is lazy. And you all will finally see it 10 ****ing months from now. Get 13 Ray and KEEP 13 or get gone.

[SouthMsDawg]

Jackson Davis.

Just watched his highlights, kid is legit. Just seems as if we may be a little to late to the party seems as if Vandy is the team to beat for him.

Not sure how Rick Ray stands going head to head against Vandy.

[maroonmania]

He's put one player on the court. Hard to say what he is at this point- but it damn sure aint "lazy"

Fixed it for you. That one player is Ready, everyone else was already on the team the year before that's eligible. I mean technically Borchert, Bloodman, and Davis were in his shortened "first" recruiting class (and we lost Applewhite for some unknown reason) and they are actually contributing more than his FULL recruiting class of ONE so far. Why we chose to sign only 3 guys last year given 2 had academic problems is beyond me.

[Schultzy]

17 61 and 13

[C222]

Just watched his highlights, kid is legit. Just seems as if we may be a little to late to the party seems as if Vandy is the team to beat for him.

Not sure how Rick Ray stands going head to head against Vandy.

He is really good. He committed to Rice last year and didn't sign in November. Everyone is offering him now. Vandy, UCONN, Butler, etc. We did visit with him a couple weeks ago but yeah, we are probably late.

[shannondawg]

How do you know they arent.??? Stands didn't even offer Summers at OM. He will prob get drafted in 2015.. He was a 3* from Mississippi..

I believe that was because he signed Deville. Wayne Brent made no mention of the problems that Deville was having. When asked later he "I thought you would have somebody that could fix him"

[Dawg61]

I believe that was because he signed Deville. Wayne Brent made no mention of the problems that Deville was having. When asked later he "I thought you would have somebody that could fix him"

Deville Smith is playing just fine for UNLV right now. That's one we should of redshirted and gotten help for his second year instead of kicking to the curb. UNLV has a pretty decent team too. Much better than us.

[mic]

I believe that was because he signed Deville. Wayne Brent made no mention of the problems that Deville was having. When asked later he "I thought you would have somebody that could fix him"

IM glad the kid apparently has gotten the help he needed and may have a great career at UNLV. But doesn't it throw up a HUGE red flag about where our program was.. Where Deville cant get the guidance and help he needs in STARKVILLE but he seems to be doing fine in VEGAS??? I have been to Vegas . A lot . With everything that is there and being basically on the strip Im not sure I could have stayed out of trouble in Vegas if I played there..

[quickstrike2]

I don't know anything about his recruiting besides looking at the sites, but i wouldn't think he is a lazy recruiter. "Superstars" are tough to get, Mullen has trouble with this and hes went to 4 straight bowls. However, he gets the guys that will fit the system and develops them and that makes up for some of the difference. We will find out about Ray's recruiting soon enough, the next two years will show his ability to recruit and develop.

[shannondawg]

IM glad the kid apparently has gotten the help he needed and may have a great career at UNLV. But doesn't it throw up a HUGE red flag about where our program was.. Where Deville cant get the guidance and help he needs in STARKVILLE but he seems to be doing fine in VEGAS??? I have been to Vegas . A lot . With everything that is there and being basically on the strip Im not sure I could have stayed out of trouble in Vegas if I played there..

Now that takes the prize for "lets blame Stansbury". It wasn't a basketball problem..

[Coach34]

Why we chose to sign only 3 guys last year given 2 had academic problems is beyond me.

because we can only have 13 guys on scholly, We cant oversign in basketball and pray it works out

[Coach34]

Deville Smith is playing just fine for UNLV right now. That's one we should of redshirted and gotten help for his second year instead of kicking to the curb. UNLV has a pretty decent team too. Much better than us.

Smith was kicked out by the AD- Ray had nothing to do with Deville leaving. Sidney and Deville both were told there was no place for them at Miss State before we even hired Ray

[thf24]

Now that takes the prize for "lets blame Stansbury". It wasn't a basketball problem..

Not Stansbury's fault in particular, but someone at UNLV obviously got him the help he needed that no one here managed to.

[Sandman14]

Ole Coach34 pushing his anti-Stans agenda.

Rick Ray is an assistant, but Stricklin hired him to be a head coach. It was ignorant at the time, and now even the folks who have been sticking their head in the sand with all the "BOY HE CAN COACH" garbage have to admit that it is a colossal train wreck. Me personally, I could care less. I won't watch an MSU basketball game again until we are at least borderline tournament worthy. We used to be borderline tournament every single year, and basketball season was fun. Now it sucks. If you like it better now than before, then you are a loser. I like winning. Not get pummeled every day. Don't get this thing twisted. Rick Ray is no John Cohen. I told everyone on this board John Cohen was a top 5 coach in the country and literally got laughed at. Well lookie lookie. My my my how the times have changed.

It was ignorant to ever fire Stans without knowing you have a plan in place to effectively transition. All the garbage about how it went down, it's all a big smoke screen. Stans got pushed out, and it was an ignorant move. We were made to look like fools in the public perception because we couldn't execute even a mediocre hire after we fired a man who consistently was at the top of the SEC West where programs like LSU, Bama, and Auburn, all of which have huge pockets, can't hire a winner after decades of trying. We had a winner and we trashed him because he wasn't a top 10 coach. We will never have a top 10 coach because the top 10 coaches go to top 10 schools. You want to fire a winner "because we can't break through to the sweet 16, so if you want to put up with just making the tournament, then you are settling." Well, now that we've fired our winner, we still don't make sweet 16's. The only change is that now we are the worst program in the SEC. Congrats on that. It's exactly what I said would happen at the time.

Coach34: Be a man and own it. You had an agenda. You pushed it for years. You got your wish, and now you are holding a bad of dump. Nobody cares about whether Ray is a lazy recruiter. He's a shitty head coach. I can tell you that much. So who cares about his laziness.

[dawgs]

2015 class is pretty good.

avg rating of 86 on 247. that's a mid-3* player. the only reason we are ranked high is because we are the only program on the list with 3 commits. rutgers is currently ranked 21st with a 79 avg rating for 2 guys, because a lot programs only have 1 2015 commit right now. i promise you a high 2* avg won't end up being ranked in the top 50 when it's all said and done. in other words, our 2015 class isn't that great.

[mic]

Now that takes the prize for "lets blame Stansbury". It wasn't a basketball problem..

I never said lets blame Stands.. I just said its strange and huge red flag that a kid from Mississippi with "issues" what ever they may be can find a way to make it Vegas, and not in Starkville...

[dawgs]

I think Dante Scott has the potential to be far more than a role player.

And sure, his recruiting hasn't blown anyone away yet. How in the world does that mean he's lazy? That's stupid.

But the problem with this thread was taking Dawg61 seriously to begin with. I have yet to find anyone with a negative opinion of Ray who hasn't, over time, proven himself to be so over-the-top with his negative opinion that he didn't give himself away as just being anti-Ray from the beginning.

No one who is legitimately going to give Ray a fair shake has made up his mind yet.

there's a big difference between questioning ray and whether he's the man to lead us back to relevance and having already made up our mind on him. however, if we voice a negative opinion on him, we get attacked as being anti-ray and never giving him a chance, so obviously we are going to defend why we have valid doubts about ray, and suddenly we aren't giving him a chance. sorry, but i like to discuss msu sports, and when we are this ****ing shitty in a sport, there are going to be valid negative points to discuss. that doesn't mean we want ray to lose or that we've completely written him off, it means we just wonder if he's capable of turning it around and how long do we go before we explore other options and what is the best route for turning it around.

[Coach34]

Ole Coach34 pushing his anti-Stans agenda.

I didnt get Stands fired. He did that too himself. Take your bullshit somewhere else.

[notsofarawaydawg]

Well ineffective and lazy are two different things. And even then we don't know if he can properly evaluate talent and just not bring them in (ineffective) or if he doesn't judge talent well (ineffecient).

Personally I thought Ready, which thusfar is really the only guy we can judge on, was going to provide a big boost. His highlights seemed to show some skill, but I haven't seen much of that thusfar. And he's had a number of injuries which make it tough to judge as well.

Bottom line is that we know we suck but we really I don't think have much of a clue on what we have or don't have other than he's not as lax with the team rules as many coaches probably are.

Next year will allow us to really start making some semi-valid judgements.

Ineffective ?? Just because he doesn't put daddy (Hood) on his payroll, doesn't mean he ineffective. He doesn't cheat at recruiting like other schools do. Daddy was heard telling some local high school coaches he was going to transfer his boy to a school where he would get his handout like he did when Stans was at MSU.

[dawgs]

Ineffective ?? Just because he doesn't put daddy (Hood) on his payroll, doesn't mean he ineffective. He doesn't cheat at recruiting like other schools do. Daddy was heard telling some local high school coaches he was going to transfer his boy to a school where he would get his handout like he did when Stans was at MSU.

for some reason duke and coach K don't strike me as the paying types.

[shannondawg]

for some reason duke and coach K don't strike me as the paying types.

Don't know about others, but in this case you might be wrong...

[Coach34]

for some reason duke and coach K don't strike me as the paying types.

You serious Clark?

Kentucky, Kansas, Michigan, NC...they all have to work it to steal the 5-stars from each other. Ohio St just got busted not long ago...John Wooden at UCLA had people taking care of the program there...

[Coach34]

Ineffective ?? Just because he doesn't put daddy (Hood) on his payroll, doesn't mean he ineffective. He doesn't cheat at recruiting like other schools do. Daddy was heard telling some local high school coaches he was going to transfer his boy to a school where he would get his handout like he did when Stans was at MSU.

exactly. No point in hiding it anymore. And that's why Gray chose to go somewhere else- he wasnt getting his "love" anymore.

[Coach34]

exactly. No point in hiding it anymore. And that's why Gray chose to go somewhere else- he wasnt getting his "love" anymore.

And this is also why I keep hearing Ray is going to get 4 years-he is going to get the chance to build the program right.

[WPDawg]

Stansbury did recruit his way to success. Won a lot of games. but could not get to a sweet 16 and knew that is where he needed to get to stay a fan favorite. But he failed to hire a top notch assistant with sharp X an O mind to help him take the next step and reaching that sweet 16. And apparently he did not have the right bench guy (was Kirby this guy) to keep the players motivated and inline. He failed himself. And his efforts to pull in the "big" recruit (Sidney for example) to help overcome his shortcomings, cost him and put the program his last two years in shambles and hard to watch. He took chances with kids with talent that others may have shied away from because it was good talent he needed to be successful. I believe Stansbury loved MSU and was a bulldog through and through. He took some risky chances with recruiting and it turned on him and the program and it was time to hit the reboot button.

By this point, MSU with a thin player base, was not a top option for potential coaches. Still got to be tough to recruit someone to live in Starkville if they are not from Mississippi. So enter Rick Ray. His close friends had to question his decision to take a chance with a down program in rural Mississippi. But it was the SEC and pay is great so he came. He was put in charge of seeing who wanted to stay and play and that is a tough spot to put someone in when they have had no previous HC experience. Run people off and you look like a hard ass. But the team had almost become high schoolish with the on and off court drama and so new rules had to be set. Consequently, possible recruits did not want to be part of a strict discipline to get things turned around when better options were available.

I dont know Rick Ray and would bet that most on here dont either. But listening to the man talk he appears to be a driven person with some basketball knowledge. Watching his teams play with Hustle and a never give up attitude shows that he is leading them and they are following. Losing lots of games certainly is tough to swallow. But it doesnt mean he and the team arent putting in the work. I pull for him and each kid that puts on the uniform to succeed. They have the look like they want to win for MSU. They are trying to rebuild the program from the ground up. That doesnt produce wins and will not make the trigger-happy video game minded fan happy but it means a hell of a lot to see the efforts they are putting forth.

So now Ray needs that special couple of recruits. He appears to have the workhorses. He just needs to recruit a pure shooter or two and get Ware some help. Are recruits ready to come to Starkville? Can Ray sell them on the postives of great fan support , good facilities and living in a small SEC town? After two years of putting his system in place, he is at the point that he is going to have to take a risk and make some promises to some good recruits that they can come in and be the star right away. Not an easy task.....promising the moon to the right kid who will fit your system and take you to the next level. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt....

[BiscuitEater]

Ray seems to be the opposite of lazy.

Scudttlebutt is that State is getting ready to offer a '14 unrated, SG from Georgia. On the MSU staff, only George Brooks has seen him play and he has seen TWO games. The head coach has NOT even bothered to see the kid play.

Compare that with Stanbury that was attending most of Jonathan Bender's Jr High, high school and AAU games; same with Monta Ellis; same with most of the high profile players that did or didn't end up at State.

NOBODY in the SEC spent more time on the road recruiting than Stans and his assistants ... nobody.

[Coach34]

Newman tweeted out from AAU Tourney in Vegas back during the Summer that Rick Ray was the ONLY coach that stayed around to watch his final game.

[Dawg61]

Newman tweeted out from AAU Tourney in Vegas back during the Summer that Rick Ray was the ONLY coach that stayed around to watch his final game.

Ray isn't lazy with Newman but he and his assistants need to be showing that kind of effort with other players too.

[Coach34]

Ray isn't lazy with Newman but he and his assistants need to be showing that kind of effort with other players too.

And how do you know they arent? The kid from Georgia was a late find because he played at a small school. That's why they have only seen him a couple of times. Teams have film now- there are other ways to see prospects

[shannondawg]

During his years under LT, Stans had to rely on boosters for help with everything except the bare essentials He built a very loyal base in doing that. I don't think anybody can argue that point..

Has Rick started a base such as that? Just curious?

[SouthMsDawg]

Not Stansbury's fault in particular, but someone at UNLV obviously got him the help he needed that no one here managed to.

Southwest Community had ZERO problems with Deville. ZERO and Im friends with their HC. He said that he worked hard at practice and went to class never had any trouble or problems with him whatsoever.

[maroonmania]

he is going to get the chance to build the program right.

Sounds like the Croomesque death nail to the basketball program if you ask me. I assume we were doing things "right" in most of the 70s and 80s as well.

[engie]

Southwest Community had ZERO problems with Deville. ZERO and Im friends with their HC. He said that he worked hard at practice and went to class never had any trouble or problems with him whatsoever.

Then why did Stansbury run him off midseason in a position that he was sorely needed?

[thf24]

Southwest Community had ZERO problems with Deville. ZERO and Im friends with their HC. He said that he worked hard at practice and went to class never had any trouble or problems with him whatsoever.

Then someone got him some help between the time he left us and arrived at Southwest. I'm not going into details and I'm not saying anything else on the subject, but the kid displayed some serious issues during his time in our program.

[Dawg61]

Then why did Stansbury run him off midseason in a position that he was sorely needed?

Man you just reminded me of the time when I bitched about Deville and our lack of a backup PG behind Dee Bost and everyone told me to chill that we'd be just fine. Then our basketball program died. Do you guys remember that? I do. Go pull up the SPS chats. Would be interesting to see now. Make sure you look at the ones of me warning everyone not to rush the basketball hire too.

[Sandman14]

I didnt get Stands fired. He did that too himself. Take your bullshit somewhere else.

yeah well I can agree that you alone did not get Stands fired. but you certainly influenced many MSU fans against him. and at the end of the day, what happened was that we fired a winner who was one of if not the biggest winner in MSU basketball history and who was consistently putting teams on the floor that were at minimum bubble teams for the NCAAs. we won't see that again for many years, just as I predicted. we are the worst team in the SEC now, and this is the end of year 2. no such thing as 5 year plans in football, let alone basketball where you can turn a program around overnight with one great recruiting class. we went from being ranked 15th at one point the season Stands was fired and being a huge bubble team to now being the worst team in the SEC two years running with not one shred of positiveness going on in the basketball program.

just own it. no need to get defensive. no one would have argued with you that we should have fired Stands if we could have hired Tom Izzo. The point is that we were incapable of hiring a true winner to replace him. he was an absolute blessing to MSU. we stayed around the top of the west, always, with Stands. Now we permanently reside at the bottom. but hey, those sorry basketball players sure are disciplined and playing hard, unlike Stands's bubble teams that won basketball games.

[engie]

"It's just not Mississippi State baseball any more. This team will nevAr get back to where it was in the glory days! We're the worst program in the west -- and will be permanently near the bottom!!1!1"

It's funny that your crystal ball told you that Rick Stansbury is the only person that can win at MSU...

[Sandman14]

get it straight. I was in 110% with Cohen from day 1. It was an obvious hire, and he was always an obvious top coach. His record was pristine. He took UK to the SEC title and received numerous national accolades. He's a head coach winner wherever he goes.

crystal ball nothing. it's ignorance and immaturity when folks come on here and chastise the realists who are also optimists. Just because some people yearn to see MSU win doesn't mean they have to buy into some fantasy where MSU is going to ascend up the college basketball ranks to a top 10 program year in and year out. You don't fire a winner because he isn't winning enough. You wait until he stops winning, unless you are Duke basketball or Bammer football. It was easy to predict. You fire a winner, and odds are you aren't going to hire someone better. Drastic odds. Bammer, LSU, Auburn...all these teams have been trying to hire someone who could consistently win in a watered down league. It hasn't happened. It was a 10% shot in the dark. We would be trying to play our way into the tournament today (or perhaps better) if Stands was the coach, if for no other reason than Hood would be here and other damn good players. No thats not certainty; it's just realistic perspective judging from the past and from what Hood said at the time..and other recruits we had on board. Dammit it's so frustrating.

[smootness]

Stans did stop winning.

And no, we wouldn't have Hood.

[Coach34]

Stands program started embarrassing the University. And to top it off, he let it slide so bad nobody wanted the job. That should tell you all you need to know. Coaches looked at our program that paid 1.5 million per season- and Stands got 14 years and never even made a Sweet 16- and they still didnt want it.

He turned it into a shit sandwich that everybody saw was going to have to be cleaned up. Thanks Stands

[shannondawg]

That shit sandwich still won 20 plus games his last year. I think that there is probably more embarrassment going around now about our program, than there ever was with Stansbury.

I wouldn't dare bring up our program now without making a joke about it.

[shannondawg]

Oh, forgot to add: If I hear "fight in the stands" one more time , I think I will puke...

[thf24]

That shit sandwich still won 20 plus games his last year. I think that there is probably more embarrassment going around now about our program, than there ever was with Stansbury.

I wouldn't dare bring up our program now without making a joke about it.

What's so great about winning 20+ games when you lose 5 out of the last 7 to miss the NCAA tournament with three potential NBA players? That's embarrassing. It's your choice whether you want to be embarrassed about our current situation, or about the events that led to it (hint: those started long before Ray was hired).

[mic]

That shit sandwich still won 20 plus games his last year. I think that there is probably more embarrassment going around now about our program, than there ever was with Stansbury.

I wouldn't dare bring up our program now without making a joke about it.

See that's the problem.. If everyone enjoyed winning 19-20 games, underachieving, basically never getting to the Big Dance and when we do not making past round 2, and having issues every year with players then yes Stans is your guy...

Im not Saying RR is the answer, (like I said blame SS for the hire not RR) you cant tell me he isn't coaching his ass off .. Im sure he knows his time is running out and if he doesn't get it done next year or year 4 he is gone and he wont get another head gig for a long long time..
That's why next year is huge not only for our program to turn things around but for RR too. If we put up more W's next year make a push for the NIT and then year 4 the same , even if we decide to cut ties with RR it will be much easier for him to get a gig and for us to bring in a bigger name coach..
Both Resumes would look much better..

[Coach34]

That shit sandwich still won 20 plus games his last year. I think that there is probably more embarrassment going around now about our program, than there ever was with Stansbury.

I wouldn't dare bring up our program now without making a joke about it.

A) Stands wouldn't have won 20 with what he would have had last year. Last time he lost all 5 starters- he went 15-15. Gray, Sword, Smith, Zedakis, and Lewis as his starting 5 wasn't going to go very far.

B) I'll never be more embarrassed by our program than when Sidney walked up an down the court on national TV. Never. You can't respect anything about that. At the very least- our players play hard now. People can respect that at least

[drunkernhelldawg]

Stands program started embarrassing the University. And to top it off, he let it slide so bad nobody wanted the job. That should tell you all you need to know. Coaches looked at our program that paid 1.5 million per season- and Stands got 14 years and never even made a Sweet 16- and they still didnt want it.

He turned it into a shit sandwich that everybody saw was going to have to be cleaned up. Thanks Stands

I'm so damn tired of hearing this lame-assed "embarrassing the university" and "dumpster fire" bullshit. We embarrassed ourselves by deciding that we don't believe in winning. We're totally embarrassed at this point. I've got an idea: let's take down all the banners Stans's teams earned and throw them on the dumpster fire. Get a clean start.

[drunkernhelldawg]

See that's the problem.. If everyone enjoyed winning 19-20 games, underachieving, basically never getting to the Big Dance and when we do not making past round 2, and having issues every year with players then yes Stans is your guy...

Im not Saying RR is the answer, (like I said blame SS for the hire not RR) you cant tell me he isn't coaching his ass off .. Im sure he knows his time is running out and if he doesn't get it done next year or year 4 he is gone and he wont get another head gig for a long long time..
That's why next year is huge not only for our program to turn things around but for RR too. If we put up more W's next year make a push for the NIT and then year 4 the same , even if we decide to cut ties with RR it will be much easier for him to get a gig and for us to bring in a bigger name coach..
Both Resumes would look much better..

Anybody around here that would enjoy winning 20? LOL!!!!!

[smootness]

You guys are missing the point. Of course if the choice is winning 20 or winning 10-13, you'll take winning 20. But we made the move to ultimately move past the point of just winning 20 and missing the NCAA Tournament. By the time Stans left, we were where Ole Miss is now...a program that was competitive every year but no longer made the NCAA Tournament. If we weren't going to the NCAA Tournament with the talent Stans had his last year, then that was our new ceiling. That ceiling isn't good enough.

Obviously no one is 'happy' with the current number of wins we have. But we made the move to have a chance to eventually move past where we were because with Stans, we knew what we were getting - a decent team who probably would be incredibly frustrating to watch that would fall short by the end.

Of course it's a risk when you make that move. But it was still the right move, and we still don't know how it will play out. But I'll take a serious nosedive initially for the chance to ultimately be better over not making the Tournament and only being pretty good while being embarrassing to watch every single year.

[drunkernhelldawg]

You guys are missing the point. Of course if the choice is winning 20 or winning 10-13, you'll take winning 20. But we made the move to ultimately move past the point of just winning 20 and missing the NCAA Tournament. By the time Stans left, we were where Ole Miss is now...a program that was competitive every year but no longer made the NCAA Tournament. If we weren't going to the NCAA Tournament with the talent Stans had his last year, then that was our new ceiling. That ceiling isn't good enough.

Obviously no one is 'happy' with the current number of wins we have. But we made the move to have a chance to eventually move past where we were because with Stans, we knew what we were getting - a decent team who probably would be incredibly frustrating to watch that would fall short by the end.

Of course it's a risk when you make that move. But it was still the right move, and we still don't know how it will play out. But I'll take a serious nosedive initially for the chance to ultimately be better over not making the Tournament and only being pretty good while being embarrassing to watch every single year.

Amazing that you say it was "the right move". That is incredibly speculative. Reminds me of flapper-era investing. How'd that work out?

[thf24]

I'm so damn tired of hearing this lame-assed "embarrassing the university" and "dumpster fire" bullshit. We embarrassed ourselves by deciding that we don't believe in winning. We're totally embarrassed at this point. I've got an idea: let's take down all the banners Stans's teams earned and throw them on the dumpster fire. Get a clean start.

Did you just ignore what the rest of the country was saying about us between 2010 and 2012? The "bullshit" you speak of wasn't just coming from our more critical fans, it was coming from national news. ESPN referred to us as specifically a "dumpster fire" and Sporting News called us "the NCAA’s most dysfunctional program." I don't care how many games we were winning at the time. That kind of outside perception was unacceptable and a true embarrassment, and had it been allowed to continue it would have led us to exactly where we are now. The only difference would have been that we'd still have that perception, where as now we're clean from the outside view and have a chance to really improve next year now that the ship has had time to right.

[smootness]

Amazing that you say it was "the right move". That is incredibly speculative. Reminds me of flapper-era investing. How'd that work out?

No, what I'm saying is that even if Ray falls on his face, making a change at HC was still the right move. With Stans, we know what the ceiling was - being pretty good and missing the NCAA Tournament or perhaps barely sneaking in. If that is good enough for you as the ceiling of the program, then fine. That's not good enough for the large majority of the fanbase.

Whether Ray was the right hire is a completely different discussion. But again, even if Ray falls on his face, the decision to remove Stans was the right one because it gave us a chance to improve our ceiling. Even if it doesn't work out in the immediate future, we will still have that chance. As long as Stans stayed, that ceiling wasn't going to budge.

[MadDawg]

Stands program started embarrassing the University. And to top it off, he let it slide so bad nobody wanted the job. That should tell you all you need to know. Coaches looked at our program that paid 1.5 million per season- and Stands got 14 years and never even made a Sweet 16- and they still didnt want it.

He turned it into a shit sandwich that everybody saw was going to have to be cleaned up. Thanks Stands

The media slaughtering us is better than being forgotten -- as we currently are.

[smootness]

The media slaughtering us is better than being forgotten -- as we currently are.

Once again, we didn't make the move so we could not win games but at least be respected; we made the move so we could clean the program up SO THAT WE COULD TAKE THE NEXT STEP.

It was never going to happen in 2 years, but that's the reason the change was made. We didn't make a decision between 20 embarrassing wins or 13 respected ones; we felt like the only way to ultimately get better was to make a move and have to fall down first. We still don't know if that will work out in the end.

[Coach34]

Once again, we didn't make the move so we could not win games but at least be respected; we made the move so we could clean the program up SO THAT WE COULD TAKE THE NEXT STEP.

amazing to me how people dont understand this

[drunkernhelldawg]

No, what I'm saying is that even if Ray falls on his face, making a change at HC was still the right move. With Stans, we know what the ceiling was - being pretty good and missing the NCAA Tournament or perhaps barely sneaking in. If that is good enough for you as the ceiling of the program, then fine. That's not good enough for the large majority of the fanbase.

Whether Ray was the right hire is a completely different discussion. But again, even if Ray falls on his face, the decision to remove Stans was the right one because it gave us a chance to improve our ceiling. Even if it doesn't work out in the immediate future, we will still have that chance. As long as Stans stayed, that ceiling wasn't going to budge.

I see what you're saying. I just haven't bought into the idea that "we knew what our ceiling was" with Stans. He took us right to the edge of the mountaintop on multiple occasions. You've got to be there to have a chance. And I haven't totally given up on Ray. I do think this situation was badly botched by our athletic department and I wonder why all the blame is going to Ray and not to the people in the office that created the situation. I'm not an insider, but it looks like the move was made so that it could be quickly disposed of with a lower priority going to the actual result of the action.

[drunkernhelldawg]

Did you just ignore what the rest of the country was saying about us between 2010 and 2012? The "bullshit" you speak of wasn't just coming from our more critical fans, it was coming from national news. ESPN referred to us as specifically a "dumpster fire" and Sporting News called us "the NCAA’s most dysfunctional program." I don't care how many games we were winning at the time. That kind of outside perception was unacceptable and a true embarrassment, and had it been allowed to continue it would have led us to exactly where we are now. The only difference would have been that we'd still have that perception, where as now we're clean from the outside view and have a chance to really improve next year now that the ship has had time to right.

I'm sorry, but I laughed out loud that our basketball program's "reputation" has improved since we tossed Stansbury out. I just forget that the players and coaches in all the other programs in the world always exhibit exemplary behavior, and when they don't, they are so embarrassed. I just forget that. Must be the heat of the Eternal Dumpster Fire getting me faint. So thankful that so many are dedicated to keeping that fire stoked so that we will never make the mistake of forgetting this terrible, terrble, terribel, just awful, omygod, ohthoseboys, tchtch, EMBARRASSMENT. We are so damn perfect, but our thoughts and prayers are with those less fortunate, those who remain misguided. Those teams with all their bad boys.

[thf24]

I'm sorry, but I laughed out loud that our basketball program's "reputation" has improved since we tossed Stansbury out. I just forget that the players and coaches in all the other programs in the world always exhibit exemplary behavior, and when they don't, they are so embarrassed. I just forget that. Must be the heat of the Eternal Dumpster Fire getting me faint. So thankful that so many are dedicated to keeping that fire stoked so that we will never make the mistake of forgetting this terrible, terrble, terribel, just awful, omygod, ohthoseboys, tchtch, EMBARRASSMENT. We are so damn perfect, but our thoughts and prayers are with those less fortunate, those who remain misguided. Those teams with all their bad boys.

Yeah you're right, plenty of teams get called "the NCAA’s most dysfunctional program" by national news sources. All the time. Yeah, we've been getting called that all year, along with 20 other teams. Yep. Happens all the time.

[drunkernhelldawg]

Yeah you're right, plenty of teams get called "the NCAA’s most dysfunctional program" by national news sources. All the time. Yeah, we've been getting called that all year, along with 20 other teams. Yep. Happens all the time.

So just to be clear, you're saying that the reputation of our basketball program has improved since Stans was fired? I will go straight-face and say I disagree. I can't think of a lower point than now for the reputation of our program. There's no greater discredit than death. Are we the first program in history to give itself the death penalty?

But I guess there's a point on the other side: at least Uncle Frank's done with molesting, now that we've got him buried.

[thf24]

So just to be clear, you're saying that the reputation of our basketball program has improved since Stans was fired? I will go straight-face and say I disagree. I can't think of a lower point than now for the reputation of our program. There's no greater discredit than death. Are we the first program in history to give itself the death penalty?

But I guess there's a point on the other side: at least Uncle Frank's done with molesting, now that we've got him buried.

I think we're talking about two different kinds of reputations here. The kind of reputation that goes with wins and losses, yeah, obviously terrible at present. No argument there. However, that kind only reflects badly on the team. I'm talking about the kind of reputation that goes with behavior and actions; the kind involving players fighting in public and badmouthing coaches, which I'll argue is more important because it reflects badly on the entire university. We are obviously in much better shape in that regard than we were two years ago. That's the last I'm going to say on the issue.