For all the talk about scholly numbers- I only count 10 for Stands in 2012

[Coach34]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/344/year/2012/mississippi-state-bulldogs


Sidney
Moultrie
Bost
Hood
Steele
Bryant
D. Smith
Lewis
S. Smith
Roq Johnson

He had an 11th in Zedakis who was ineligible

Only 10 scholarship players? I thought only Ray doesnt have full rosters?

[smootness]

The fundamental evaluation of a good basketball coach is being able to fill out 13 scholarship spots. I mean, if you don't have 13 players at your disposal, it means you're awful.

If you bring in players who won't be eligible year 1, even if they will have eligibility after that first year, you are terrible.

Anyone who can play right away is always better than those who can't play year 1, even if they will then be worse players every year after the first year.

You can always just cut the worse player after year 1 and bring in a new player. Every year, you should cut everyone who wasn't great and try new guys.

I'm pretty sure I just summed up Dawg61's argument. Well, those and, 'We must have a coach solely devoted to teaching the correct shooting technique.'

[thf24]

I haven't said anything, but I've been continually baffled by those continually throwing out this complaint. I don't have the time to do the research at the moment, but I'd be willing to bet that many, if not most, teams don't consistently have all their spots filled. It's just not that big of a deal, and it gives you some flexibility in case a surprise prospect or transfer shows interest in you, or similar occurrence.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

We don't "have to" have a full roster of 13 scholly guys who can all play in a given year. What we do "have to" have is a full complement of 10 scholly players who can be counted on to play, with a solid 8 who can rotate in and out with no real drop off. Having to rotate Cunningham in and out the past 2 years because we are so thin tells you everything you need to know about why we are so bad. It also tells anyone willing to actually look at the situation objectively why we have fallen off so dramatically in February the past 2 years (no depth - everyone has dead legs by this time of the year).

We may not be world beaters next season, but if we can get 3 or so more players who can actually contribute (Houston, Dunlap, Daniels, Black, Ndoye, etc.), then we should be an NIT team. Everyone keeps talking about losing Borchert like its going to be a big loss. He's not our best 3 point shooter (he's marginal from 3 at best) and he plays worse defense than I do. I'm glad he chose to come help us rebuild this thing the past 2 years, but we will be better for replacing him.

[Jack Lambert]

I haven't said anything, but I've been continually baffled by those continually throwing out this complaint. I don't have the time to do the research at the moment, but I'd be willing to bet that many, if not most, teams don't consistently have all their spots filled. It's just not that big of a deal, and it gives you some flexibility in case a surprise prospect or transfer shows interest in you, or similar occurrence.

But many games we are playing with 7. That can't happen in the third year.

[engie]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/344/year/2012/mississippi-state-bulldogs


Sidney
Moultrie
Bost
Hood
Steele
Bryant
D. Smith
Lewis
S. Smith
Roq Johnson

He had an 11th in Zedakis who was ineligible

Only 10 scholarship players? I thought only Ray doesnt have full rosters?

The 12th and 13th were Shawn Long and D.J. Gardner. Gardner left in August over the tweeting scandal -- and Long left in January of 2012 to ULL after redshirting.

Which actually makes your point even better.

[fishwater99]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/344/year/2012/mississippi-state-bulldogs


Sidney
Moultrie
Bost
Hood
Steele
Bryant
D. Smith
Lewis
S. Smith
Roq Johnson

He had an 11th in Zedakis who was ineligible

Only 10 scholarship players? I thought only Ray doesnt have full rosters?

And compare the talent of Stans players vs those of Ray. It's not even close.
Ray gets another year from me, but the lack of talent on his teams is very telling.
If he doesn't bring in some better players real soon then he is done...
I just don't see Ray recruiting like he needs to..

[quickstrike2]

I just want him to get 10 players that are capable of playing decent basketball. In year 3, i don't care to hear that he don't have enough players. That's not to much to ask, and I'm for Ray not against him

[Coach34]

I just want him to get 10 players that are capable of playing decent basketball. In year 3, i don't care to hear that he don't have enough players. That's not to much to ask, and I'm for Ray not against him

I dont think there is anybody that disagrees with that

[maroonmania]

Our problem is much more talent than numbers. When we went to the Final Four we essentially played 8 players. We had our starting 5 of Dampier, Walters, Jones, Wilson and Bullard. The only other players that I remember getting any other meaningful time were Hyche, Washington and Hughes. If we have 12 or 13 players next year but no better quality I don't believe that it is going to make any significant impact on the W-L record. You can have 30 players but if none of them can put the ball in the hole past 8 feet from the basket it doesn't matter much.

[fishwater99]

Our problem is much more talent than numbers.

I totally agree. We just don't have the quality players that are needed to win.
Ray hasn't been able to bring them in and I don't see that trend changing in the next 2 years.
Sword, Thomas, and Ware were all Stans recruits. That's the one good thing he could do, recruit.

[Coach34]

I totally agree. We just don't have the quality players that are needed to win.

We have yet to see Daniels, N'Doye, or Houston take the floor yet. How can we be sure we wont have the talent to compete next year?

Barry Stewart- one of our all-time leading 3-point shooters- was a nobody from Tennessee
Kodi Augustus was a 3-star and he turned out to be solid
Ben Hansbrough was a 2-star and ended up Big East POY

I can go on- but you get the idea

[quickstrike2]

Our problem is much more talent than numbers. When we went to the Final Four we essentially played 8 players. We had our starting 5 of Dampier, Walters, Jones, Wilson and Bullard. The only other players that I remember getting any other meaningful time were Hyche, Washington and Hughes. If we have 12 or 13 players next year but no better quality I don't believe that it is going to make any significant impact on the W-L record. You can have 30 players but if none of them can put the ball in the hole past 8 feet from the basket it doesn't matter much.

I agree with this. I think the "he don't have a full roster" is being used a crutch right now. In year 3, he should have enough of his players that we can start judging him as a coach more accurately. I think once he has 10+ scholly players, we can start looking more at talent and lack there of talent on our team. The Stans left a mess talk should be over in year 3. I expect good things in year 3 from Ray, gave him two years to get back on track and now lets play competitive basketball and be NIT caliber. I think this can happen, if we are talking about the same problems after next year then we have issues with Ray. Heading into next year Ray will be accountable as a coach, and i think we can have a positive season.

[MadDawg]

I expect good things in year 3 from Ray, gave him two years to get back on track and now lets play competitive basketball and be NIT caliber. I think this can happen, if we are talking about the same problems after next year then we have issues with Ray. Heading into next year Ray will be accountable as a coach, and i think we can have a positive season.

As a college basketball fan, this is what is most depressing to me. The hope, hope mind you, is that in year three we will be a "competitive program that is NIT calibre" - something that used to be totally unnacceptable and is now the goal.

Spare me the "shitstorm he was left". We all know that. It's been posted 1,000 times on here. I'm not disputing the upphill battle or the challenges Ray is facing and will face in the future. I'm just talking about how much it sucks to be wandering the wilderness of basketball futility for the forseeable future.

[Dawg61]

The fundamental evaluation of a good basketball coach is being able to fill out 13 scholarship spots. I mean, if you don't have 13 players at your disposal, it means you're awful.

If you bring in players who won't be eligible year 1, even if they will have eligibility after that first year, you are terrible.

Anyone who can play right away is always better than those who can't play year 1, even if they will then be worse players every year after the first year.

You can always just cut the worse player after year 1 and bring in a new player. Every year, you should cut everyone who wasn't great and try new guys.

I'm pretty sure I just summed up Dawg61's argument. Well, those and, 'We must have a coach solely devoted to teaching the correct shooting technique.'

Dude I see shit two years before it hits you in the ****ing face.

[smootness]

Dude I see shit two years before it hits you in the ****ing face.

Haha. K.

[fishwater99]

We have yet to see Daniels, N'Doye, or Houston take the floor yet. How can we be sure we wont have the talent to compete next year?

Barry Stewart- one of our all-time leading 3-point shooters- was a nobody from Tennessee
Kodi Augustus was a 3-star and he turned out to be solid
Ben Hansbrough was a 2-star and ended up Big East POY

I can go on- but you get the idea

I have a pretty good idea that we won't be that much improved next year, maybe a .500 record overall.
I hope those 3 will pan out and become superstars for Ray. The verdict is still out.
Stans was good at recruiting and finding a few players who played beyond their rankings, but he also brought in the 4 and 5*'s.
We haven't seen any good recruiting from Ray to date. I won't hold my breath, but I'll give him another year to see.

[smootness]

I have a pretty good idea that we won't be that much improved next year, maybe a .500 record overall.
I hope those 3 will pan out and become superstars for Ray. The verdict is still out.
Stans was good at recruiting and finding a few players who played beyond their rankings, but he also brought in the 4 and 5*'s.
We haven't seen any good recruiting from Ray to date. I won't hold my breath, but I'll give him another year to see.

This is at least fair. To me, any evaluation of Ray that doesn't include 'We'll see' or 'We can't make a complete determination yet' is just asinine.

While Stans did certainly bring in some talent, the guys who truly 'made' the program were mostly lower-ranked guys.

Derrick Zimmerman, Timmy Bowers, Lawrence Roberts (transfer but wasn't highly-recruited out of HS), Winsome Frazier, Brandon Vincent, Barry Stewart, Jarvis Varnado (started to move up some after he committed to us)...these are the guys who mostly carried us, to me.

Yes, we did hit on some guys who were more highly-ranked - Mario Austin, Jamont Gordon, Dee Bost; but we had a lot of success with the 'decent' group under Stans.

And we had a ton of busts, not even including the 5*s who went pro - Vernon Goodridge, Delk twins, Walter Sharpe, etc. Stans recruited well, but most of the guys the program was built on were the kind of guys Ray is bringing in now.

That doesn't mean they'll be as good as Stans' guys - Stans had a really good eye for lower-ranked talent, and we don't yet know that about Ray. But it's stupid to say he is bringing in no talent when we don't yet know what kind of talent he's bringing in.

[Dawg61]

This is at least fair. To me, any evaluation of Ray that doesn't include 'We'll see' or 'We can't make a complete determination yet' is just asinine.


Do you have to listen to the entire Rihanna album before you can determine she can sing? There's signs all over our basketball program. I just can not figure out how the **** you can't see them yet. When you eat a steak at Ruth's Chris do you need to leave the restaurant before determining the steak was good?

[mic]

I have a pretty good idea that we won't be that much improved next year, maybe a .500 record overall.
I hope those 3 will pan out and become superstars for Ray. The verdict is still out.
Stans was good at recruiting and finding a few players who played beyond their rankings, but he also brought in the 4 and 5*'s.
We haven't seen any good recruiting from Ray to date. I won't hold my breath, but I'll give him another year to see.

In the 14 years the Stans was here name the players that were suppose to be possible NBA players out of high school that actually got better..
Yes he had some lower ranked guys that got better that were very good for us Barry Stewart, Jarvis, Fraizer..
That's one of the issues I had with Stans. With ALL this talent everyone said he got every year why couldn't he win more in an average SEC than we did.?? If he had stayed 2, 3, 4 more years would it had changed.? Prob not...
Basketball isn't football. You give me 8-4 every year and beat OM 4 out of 5 I will take it every year till Im dead.. Basketball and baseball has to have runs made every so often and some need to be past round 2.. And 2 of the 6 teams that made it to the Dance was because of a transfer that luckily feel into our lap..

[smootness]

Do you have to listen to the entire Rihanna album before you can determine she can sing? There's signs all over our basketball program. I just can not figure out how the **** you can't see them yet. When you eat a steak at Ruth's Chris do you need to leave the restaurant before determining the steak was good?

Like I said, you've now gone off the edge and have exposed yourself as just another belligerent Ray hater, a la RICKRAYMADE and Raytoraid. Which I'm honestly happy about, as now I no longer feel the need to engage you. Those comparisons have no logical merit.

I would ask you to tell me the signs that so clearly prove Ray is a terrible coach, but considering the fact that you think the main issue we have is that we don't have an assistant coach solely devoted to teaching shooting technique, I won't even go there.

[Dawg61]

Like I said, you've now gone off the edge and have exposed yourself as just another belligerent Ray hater, a la RICKRAYMADE and Raytoraid. Which I'm honestly happy about, as now I no longer feel the need to engage you. Those comparisons have no logical merit.

I would ask you to tell me the signs that so clearly prove Ray is a terrible coach, but considering the fact that you think the main issue we have is that we don't have an assistant coach solely devoted to teaching shooting technique, I won't even go there.

When did I say the "shooting coach"'s only job is to teach better shooting? Give him more than one responsibility. We have multiple areas that need addressing. You don't even have to call him a shooting coach either. Call him a "Non-Suck Coach" for all I care as long as he can show everyone how to shoot a ****ing basketball correctly amongst other things.