Let's play the What If Game

[Goat from MSU]

At the end of basketball season Ray quit or was let go 1.) Would you be upset? 2.) What coach hire would bring State together again as far as the fanbase. (I mean a real answer not like Stansbury or Williams).

[AROB44]

Let's don't play......Ray is here for the next 2 years at least. Let's just support him and stop this kind of silliness.

[thedawg]

I would seriously doubt our leadership and laugh when scarcely anyone above high school coaches applied for the job

[Political Hack]

Larry Brown. (not leaving Texas)
Bruce Pearl. (Strick doesn't have the testicular fortitude to make a bold move like that).
Kenny Payne. (an admission we're bleeding out and need to ingest talent ASAP over long term stability).

Real potential options that would be home runs.
1) Pat Skerry. Would be a monumental and awesome move and for that reason alone I consider it impossible.
2) Greg McDermott. not sure he'd even blink at the offer.
3) Greg Marshall. Same as McDerm

[Political Hack]

and I agree with the others that we'd likely end up even worse off.

[chef dixon]

There will be no obvious "home-run hire" for MSU basketball anytime soon. There are a ton of mid-major jobs that are currently easily better jobs than 3/4 of the SEC.

[Goat from MSU]

If we had the money say like 2 to 3 mil. I would do what it takes to get Greg Marshall.( Coach34 was right 2 years ago on this one.)
Larry Brown. (not leaving Texas)
Bruce Pearl. (Strick doesn't have the testicular fortitude to make a bold move like that).
Kenny Payne. (an admission we're bleeding out and need to ingest talent ASAP over long term stability).

Real potential options that would be home runs.
1) Pat Skerry. Would be a monumental and awesome move and for that reason alone I consider it impossible.
2) Greg McDermott. not sure he'd even blink at the offer.
3) Greg Marshall. Same as McDerm

[Goat from MSU]

I was not being silly .I believe he should get at least next season. But things happen in life you can never tell.
Let's don't play......Ray is here for the next 2 years at least. Let's just support him and stop this kind of silliness.

[Coach34]

We could have gotten Marshall 3 years ago- but after that it was too late

[engie]

If we had the money say like 2 to 3 mil. I would do what it takes to get Greg Marshall.( Coach34 was right 2 years ago on this one.)

It's about more than money with Marshall -- and he's making $2mil/yr RIGHT NOW so you can go ahead an double your number. $2mil per for the next 20 years till he decides he wants to leave Wichita St > $3mil/yr in Starkville where you get shitcanned in year 2 in a situation no coach in the country could have fixed that quickly.

If we were EVER going to get Marshall, it had to happen after the 2011 season before he was well-known nationally and while he was still making $800k.

[dawgs]

It's about more than money with Marshall -- and he's making $2mil/yr RIGHT NOW so you can go ahead an double your number. $2mil per for the next 20 years till he decides he wants to leave Wichita St > $3mil/yr in Starkville where you get shitcanned in year 2 in a situation no coach in the country could have fixed that quickly.

If we were EVER going to get Marshall, it had to happen after the 2011 season before he was well-known nationally and while he was still making $800k.


marshall wouldn't be on nearly the hot seat right now that ray is on because, you know, he'd have actually accomplished something to inspire faith in him before he arrived on campus. but you'll never understand that difference it appears.

[Goat from MSU]

Coach34 who would be your second choice . We will have to spend some money on whoever.
We could have gotten Marshall 3 years ago- but after that it was too late

[smootness]

I would be very upset.

[engie]

marshall wouldn't be on nearly the hot seat right now that ray is on because, you know, he'd have actually accomplished something to inspire faith in him before he arrived on campus. but you'll never understand that difference it appears.

You're wrong -- and we've got a VERY recent example to prove it.

I guess I really, really need to pull the Cohen archives for you.
Here you go. This is 30 seconds worth of searching:
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/467588/At-What-Point-Is-It-Cohens-Team#reply-467588
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/383201/Collegiate-Baseball-ranks-incoming-class-18th#reply-383201
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/topic/23799/If-I-had-to-rate-Cohen-to-this-point-I-would-say-F?page=1#.UxDUGfldWbN
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/topic/87066/Miss-State-baseball-facts-and-comparisions?page=1#.UxDUKPldWbN
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/475609/Oh-yeah-since-we-all-love-rumors-around-here#reply-475609

Let me know if I need to keep going...

[Coach34]

We would have a much easier time hiring someone now that the program has been cleaned up. But I'm not going to speculate- we have a coach for 2 more years- at least

[Coach34]

You're wrong -- and we've got a VERY recent example to prove it.

I guess I really, really need to pull the Cohen archives for you.
Here you go. This is 30 seconds worth of searching:
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/467588/At-What-Point-Is-It-Cohens-Team#reply-467588
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/383201/Collegiate-Baseball-ranks-incoming-class-18th#reply-383201
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/topic/23799/If-I-had-to-rate-Cohen-to-this-point-I-would-say-F?page=1#.UxDUGfldWbN
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/topic/87066/Miss-State-baseball-facts-and-comparisions?page=1#.UxDUKPldWbN
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/475609/Oh-yeah-since-we-all-love-rumors-around-here#reply-475609

Let me know if I need to keep going...

"It seems that we as a fanbase like to give the bare cupboard excuse to every incoming coach. It was used in the first few years for Stans, Croom, Cohen, and Mullen. Yet Mullen started wining in year two and then the consensus changed to "Croom left Mullen some talent." Well Sherrill left Croom talent and Stansbury inheritted talent. Mullen showed he could do more with less, Stansbury less so, and Croom not at all.

So far, Cohen hasn't shown that he is able to either. Instead of building them up to be the best they could be, he wrote them off and threw them under the bus. While I have been dissapointed with him in that regard, he does seem to be bringing in some really good talent, and I am OK with letting him have his own Juniors before showing him the door. "


Good stuff Engie

[Political Hack]

"It seems that we as a fanbase like to give the bare cupboard excuse to every incoming coach. It was used in the first few years for Stans, Croom, Cohen, and Mullen. Yet Mullen started wining in year two and then the consensus changed to "Croom left Mullen some talent." Well Sherrill left Croom talent and Stansbury inheritted talent. Mullen showed he could do more with less, Stansbury less so, and Croom not at all.

So far, Cohen hasn't shown that he is able to either. Instead of building them up to be the best they could be, he wrote them off and threw them under the bus. While I have been dissapointed with him in that regard, he does seem to be bringing in some really good talent, and I am OK with letting him have his own Juniors before showing him the door. "


Good stuff Engie

I fail to understand how message board perspectives on Cohen are relevant to the state of our basketball program. It's a non-starter. it's like saying Jerry Jones draft pick in 2009, who turned out to be good in year 3, removes all questioning of his draft pick in 2011, who happens to be shitting the bed in year two.

[dawgs]

"It seems that we as a fanbase like to give the bare cupboard excuse to every incoming coach. It was used in the first few years for Stans, Croom, Cohen, and Mullen. Yet Mullen started wining in year two and then the consensus changed to "Croom left Mullen some talent." Well Sherrill left Croom talent and Stansbury inheritted talent. Mullen showed he could do more with less, Stansbury less so, and Croom not at all.

So far, Cohen hasn't shown that he is able to either. Instead of building them up to be the best they could be, he wrote them off and threw them under the bus. While I have been dissapointed with him in that regard, he does seem to be bringing in some really good talent, and I am OK with letting him have his own Juniors before showing him the door. "


Good stuff Engie

that right there is a HUGE difference between cohen year 2 and ray right now. ray is NOT bringing in good talent, i don't care how much you try to spin it.

[RougeDawg]

I would seriously doubt our leadership and laugh when scarcely anyone above high school coaches applied for the job

Anyone who doesn't already seriously doubt our leadership, with the current situation and assessment of our BBall program, has some serious comprehension issues themselves.

[Political Hack]

Anyone who doesn't already seriously doubt our leadership, with the current situation and assessment of our BBall program, has some serious comprehension issues themselves.

sadly, I laughed.

[smootness]

I fail to understand how message board perspectives on Cohen are relevant to the state of our basketball program. It's a non-starter. it's like saying Jerry Jones draft pick in 2009, who turned out to be good in year 3, removes all questioning of his draft pick in 2011, who happens to be shitting the bed in year two.

Because it means that perhaps people should have some patience.

If there are a lot of draft picks who do not do well their first two years but end up being very good players, then people who call for every draft pick who isn't playing well their first two years to be cut are stupid.

Showing that our same fanbase was calling one of our coaches terrible because he inherited a mess and didn't immediately turn it around, a coach who took us to the national title series a short time later, is relevant when discussing whether we should fire a current coach who inherited a mess and didn't immediately turn it around.

I really don't understand why this is difficult to understand. We have seen numerous examples of coaches who had to take some time to turn around dumpster fires. We've also seen numerous examples of coaches who didn't ever turn around dumpster fires. Since it's too early, based on those prior examples, to know which our basketball coach falls under, perhaps we should just wait and see?

[smootness]

Anyone who doesn't already seriously doubt our leadership, with the current situation and assessment of our BBall program, has some serious comprehension issues themselves.

So should we have seriously doubted our leadership during year 2 of the Cohen era?

Let's say Ray turns out to be a freaking home run. That will mean that our administration is really smart and a lot of our fans are stupid. It won't matter in any way what we did in year 2. So why would anyone rush to put themselves in the potential 'stupid' category?

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

Have to look at Donnie Tyndall. Terrible arena, no fan support, and money yet all he is doing is winning. We could easily hire him and have an instant upgrade.

[smootness]

Have to look at Donnie Tyndall. Terrible arena, no fan support, and money yet all he is doing is winning. We could easily hire him and have an instant upgrade.

If anything has been proven recently, it's that in the SEC, as long as you hire someone who has had prior success somewhere, you are guaranteed to win**

[Dawgface]

Let's don't play......Ray is here for the next 2 years at least. Let's just support him and stop this kind of silliness.

Agree. He's not quitting and SS won't fire him after this season.

[Johnson85]

At the end of basketball season Ray quit or was let go 1.) Would you be upset? 2.) What coach hire would bring State together again as far as the fanbase. (I mean a real answer not like Stansbury or Williams).

I wouldn't be upset. I think the work he has done so far can mostly be built on by the next coach. We don't really know anything about Ray yet except that he isn't a miracle worker. Our situation now is a lot more desirable than it was when Ray was hired, so we'd have at least as good of a pool of applicants and the same people picking the coach, so I don't see why we'd expect it to be worse than Ray.

As far as bringing the fanbase together, there's not a hire we can realistically make that will. We are clearly going to have fans second guess until the coach demonstrates success, no matter what kind of situation he walks into. We hired a coach that won the SEC in baseball at a perennial loser and people were still pissed off he didn't rebuild a team in two years. We're not going to get anywhere near that kind of resume in basketball and if we somehow did, there would be significant baggage associated with it (Bruce Pearl?) that people would bitch about.

[MarketingBully01]

Michael White from La Tech, pay him $2 million. It would accomplish two things. Piss off Ole Miss because they are thinking they will get him if they fire Kennedy and we would get a heck of a coach.

Kermit Davis from MTSU, pay him $1.5 million, he could retire here and get our program back into great shape for the next up and comer.

Or if we go the assistant route, Robert Kirby. Heck of a recruiter and already knows the lay of the land at MSU so he would already have a head start in the position.

[thf24]

So should we have seriously doubted our leadership during year 2 of the Cohen era?

Let's say Ray turns out to be a freaking home run. That will mean that our administration is really smart and a lot of our fans are stupid. It won't matter in any way what we did in year 2. So why would anyone rush to put themselves in the potential 'stupid' category?

Exactly what I'm thinking. Everyone should know that Ray is going to be here three years at the very minimum, four barring a catastrophic collapse next year. Bitching on message boards isn't going to change that one bit, so why potentially set yourself up for ridicule in a few years needlessly?

You're always going to have the stubborn, uninformed idiots, but it's a little strange to me how so many usually good posters have jumped into the irrational crowd on the Ray issue. Same thing with Cohen a few years ago.

[MadDawg]

Exactly what I'm thinking. Everyone should know that Ray is going to be here three years at the very minimum, four barring a catastrophic collapse next year. Bitching on message boards isn't going to change that one bit, so why potentially set yourself up for ridicule in a few years needlessly?

You're always going to have the stubborn, uninformed idiots, but it's a little strange to me how so many usually good posters have jumped into the irrational crowd on the Ray issue. Same thing with Cohen a few years ago.

I thought that was the point of message boards... to have differing opinions and be able to discuss them?

And you will always have fans that make irrational leaps when things aren't going so well. Hell we had a lot of fans wanting to fire Mullen last season.

[MarketingBully01]

So should we have seriously doubted our leadership during year 2 of the Cohen era?

Let's say Ray turns out to be a freaking home run. That will mean that our administration is really smart and a lot of our fans are stupid. It won't matter in any way what we did in year 2. So why would anyone rush to put themselves in the potential 'stupid' category?

Let's take the complete opposite look of that. Let's say that he sucks next year at the clip of 14-18. How would everyone feel then? Would the administration look like bafoons if they look smart in your scenario?

[engie]

Let's take the complete opposite look of that. Let's say that he sucks next year at the clip of 14-18. How would everyone feel then? Would the administration look like bafoons if they look smart in your scenario?

Ray goes 14-18 next year, I'm screaming from the rooftops wanting to go another direction.

That said, it ain't going to happen.

[dawgs]

Because it means that perhaps people should have some patience.

If there are a lot of draft picks who do not do well their first two years but end up being very good players, then people who call for every draft pick who isn't playing well their first two years to be cut are stupid.

Showing that our same fanbase was calling one of our coaches terrible because he inherited a mess and didn't immediately turn it around, a coach who took us to the national title series a short time later, is relevant when discussing whether we should fire a current coach who inherited a mess and didn't immediately turn it around.

I really don't understand why this is difficult to understand. We have seen numerous examples of coaches who had to take some time to turn around dumpster fires. We've also seen numerous examples of coaches who didn't ever turn around dumpster fires. Since it's too early, based on those prior examples, to know which our basketball coach falls under, perhaps we should just wait and see?

because everyone that is not buying into ray right now is an irrational reactionary fan that spazzes out and calls for heads as soon as anything goes awry. we are all incapable of well thought out opinions that aren't completely black and white. some of us weren't panicking over cohen in year 2 yet for the millionth time because of reasons that have been enunciated over and over and over. but we look at ray and we don't see the same thing that was happening with cohen. it's not black and white, there are/were lots of factors at play requiring a nuanced evaluation of each situation individually. at the time for cohen i came out on one side of the fence. right now with ray, i'm edging towards the other side of the fence. i hope i'm wrong because i'd rather win games than be internet right (which is why it infuriates me when questioning a coach means you want him to fail - what kinda ass backwards logic is that?), but i'm not optimistic.

[Coach34]

If Ray goes 14-18 next year he wont have a supporter left

[MarketingBully01]

If Ray goes 14-18 next year he wont have a supporter left

But I thought he got 4 years no matter what. Do you think he is fired after 3 if he does go 14-18? That would be the equivalent in football of pulling a Croom.

[esplanade91]

I wouldn't be upset, and I'd probably call Donnie Tyndall.