Baseball thoughts-after 10 games

[MsStateBaseball]

SS- I think Cohen gave every opportunity to Britton BC he has been here 3 yrs but Heck is Cohen's guy, he loves how he plays. Cohen was testing Heck-not playing him the first few games.

3B- I just see Detz. Britton is the man here late in games, that's his role now, late I ning defense replacement. Humphreys will be brought along slow on defense, he can still be a DH later in year.

OF- Vickerson is definite starter and leadoff. We got six who can play, least of teams worries.

Bullpen- Cox really has come on. Brown is reliable. Lindgren needs to stay, bring him in for all 3 SEC games, great strength. Houston has got to pitch keep him sharp. For bullpen, wild card is Paul Young, just get a few IP out of him.

Starters- Woody, Fitts, Hudson-if he does better next 2 times, not then give it to Bracewell.

Hitting will come with reps, just don't strike out.

[MsStateBaseball]

Forgot DH- I know some like Garner but DH are supposed to be good hitters, he K's too much for me. Multiple guys for this spot. Play who is hot at the time.

[Todd4State]

We're pretty close to figuring out our lineup.

Rotation- We're going to have to decide at some point in SEC play whether we should put Lindgren in the rotation or not. I don't think Hudson is ready for the SEC rotation, and Sexton sure isn't. Bracewell could get the Sunday spot in SEC play- but I think before long we're going to end up with Lindgren back in the weekend spot and we will hopefully keep Bracewell in at midweek. Woodruff looks like he is recovering- so depending on how he continues to progress, it may not be a bad idea to move him to Sunday and make Lindgren pitch Friday. And then keep Fitts on at Saturday.

Bullpen- With Holder out, we should still be fine. Hudson could close- usually his best inning is his first inning. We have enough to be fine- if we don't move Lindgren, he could close. Then we have Cox, Gentry, Ross, and Preston Brown. Hopefully we get Holder back sooner than later.

C- Collins has taken over. I don't want to say he is raw, but he is learning. We're going to get a .200-.250 season from him at the plate- but when he is a junior he is going to be a very good all-around player.

1B- Rea is probably our best all-around hitter.

2B- Pirtle is very good even though he has struggled a little bit with the glove early on.

3B- Detz for now....BUT I wouldn't be surprised if Humphreys takes over. A couple of days after he was in the doghouse- now he is starting to hit. Humphreys taking over is going to be dependent on what Detz and Garner do at the plate.

SS- Heck has the job. If we're doing a baseball combine between Heck and Britton, Britton is going to win. But Heck is a better baseball player. He has stabilized the defense it seems like. He's also a better hitter than Britton- which is important since we're not exactly the 1927 Yankees.

LF- Vickerson has been as good as advertised.

CF- CT has been OK so far. It seems like he has had a lot of loud outs. He's still doing most everything right, he just has to have some balls find grass for him.

RF- Demarcus is probably the most improved guy on the team other than Wes. He's stealing bases and he is hitting better than ever. He just has to eliminate the one Demarcus moment a game.

DH- Garner for now- but if he slumps and Humphreys hits, we could move Detz back here. Or if Detz struggles we could just let Humphreys play third.

[MarketingBully01]

Great synopsis you guys. This weekend will be very telling. If we can leave this weekend 9-5, I will be happy. Sweep it and that would be even better.

[BeardoMSU]

Is Holder injured?

I must have missed that.

[messageboardsuperhero]

I disagree somewhat about Garner. We have plenty of guys who can get on base and run, but what we need is another hitter with some pop- Garner has that more than anyone on the team outside of Rea. If he can give us gap power and hit 5-8 HRs in the middle of the lineup this year, then I can live with hime striking out some.

Sure, in an ideal world we'd have another run producer to complement Rea that didn't strike out much- but we have to make do with what Garner gives us now until he and Humphreys can mature and make the necessary adjustments.

[Todd4State]

Is Holder injured?

He has a finger injury. Could be out a few weeks. I do expect him to be back before the season ends though.

[messageboardsuperhero]

If there's one positive thing these tough loses have done for us, it's help us figure out the lineup.

LF- Vickerson
3B- Detz (move him back here when he starts hitting)
1B- Rea
2B- Pirtle
DH- Garner
RF- Henderson (quietly off to a very solid start)
CF- Bradford
SS- Heck
C- Collins/Walker

Fri.- Woodruff
Sat.- Fitts
Sun.- Bracewell/Lindgren

[bully99]

From the games I've seen Cody Walker is the best defensive catcher we have, but Matt Stevens if you want to believe him,said on his podcast today that Walker is in Cohen's doghouse for something he did on the field.Stevens wouldn't say what he did or when,so I'm not sure if that's true. He said the staff wants Collins to take the position. Cohen's about the only coach Stevens sucks up to so he might be right.

Garner has been striking out a good bit, so he needs to make better contact, if he's gonna be the dh.

[preachermatt83]

First to respond to the original post.... There is NO WAY Bracewell doesn't get a weekend spot.. He and Fitts are heads and shoulders above the others right now. Also Garner is going to be the DH coming into conference play.. Too much gap power and Deep Sac fly potential type stuff not to be the dh... now on to my thoughts.

OF- Three guys to me at this point who should be starting most are Vick, CT, and Henderson... Robson deserves some playing time as well.. We are in good shape at all three OF spots

Middle Infield - Pirtle is your 2nd basemen no doubt and to me Heck has done what he needs to do to be the guy at short

on the corners- Rae at 1st of course and Detz at 3rd.. Humphries should get a few spot starts here and there as well

Catcher- defensively Collins is outstanding.. his release is literally as quick as anyone I have ever seen and should get the nod here for most games.. Walker should be number 2 and Randolph is just not on the same level.

DH- Garner..

Rotation... weekends- Bracewell, Fitts, and Woody(if he gets straitened out), Midweek- Brown would be my guy here with one of the freshmen ready if needed.

bullpen- Got lots of guys here but Ross and Lindy will be the inning eaters with cox and gentry being really good set up guys...

[Todd4State]

First to respond to the original post.... There is NO WAY Bracewell doesn't get a weekend spot.. He and Fitts are heads and shoulders above the others right now. Also Garner is going to be the DH coming into conference play.. Too much gap power and Deep Sac fly potential type stuff not to be the dh... now on to my thoughts.

OF- Three guys to me at this point who should be starting most are Vick, CT, and Henderson... Robson deserves some playing time as well.. We are in good shape at all three OF spots

Middle Infield - Pirtle is your 2nd basemen no doubt and to me Heck has done what he needs to do to be the guy at short

on the corners- Rae at 1st of course and Detz at 3rd.. Humphries should get a few spot starts here and there as well

Catcher- defensively Collins is outstanding.. his release is literally as quick as anyone I have ever seen and should get the nod here for most games.. Walker should be number 2 and Randolph is just not on the same level.

DH- Garner..

Rotation... weekends- Bracewell, Fitts, and Woody(if he gets straitened out), Midweek- Brown would be my guy here with one of the freshmen ready if needed.

bullpen- Got lots of guys here but Ross and Lindy will be the inning eaters with cox and gentry being really good set up guys...

There is very much a way that Bracewell doesn't get a weekend spot- read my post. I think we are stretching Lindgren out already to get him ready.

Now- Ben is very capable of being a SEC starter and he could very well get a nod. But we have several options- and to say that there is no way he doesn't get a weekend spot especially when he is already pitching midweek, well you need to re-evaluate that.

[preachermatt83]

There is very much a way that Bracewell doesn't get a weekend spot- read my post. I think we are stretching Lindgren out already to get him ready.

Now- Ben is very capable of being a SEC starter and he could very well get a nod. But we have several options- and to say that there is no way he doesn't get a weekend spot especially when he is already pitching midweek, well you need to re-evaluate that.


I am not saying at all that Lindgren is not good enough for a spot in the rotation but you know how butch and cohen are.. They want another "Girado" type inning eater out of the pen. Cohen has his mind made up on that with Lindgren.

[Todd4State]

From the games I've seen Cody Walker is the best defensive catcher we have, but Matt Stevens if you want to believe him,said on his podcast today that Walker is in Cohen's doghouse for something he did on the field.Stevens wouldn't say what he did or when,so I'm not sure if that's true. He said the staff wants Collins to take the position. Cohen's about the only coach Stevens sucks up to so he might be right.

Garner has been striking out a good bit, so he needs to make better contact, if he's gonna be the dh.

Walker has to hit if he wants to play more. That's the biggest difference between him and Collins. I wouldn't put too much stock into people being in Cohen's doghouse. After all, it was just Sunday that Demarcus and Humphreys were in it and now they are back and contributing.

It's pretty simple- don't screw up and you get to play. If you do screw up, you're probably not going to start the next game, but you'll also get an opportunity to show that you've learned your lesson.

[mstatefan91]

So is that what we're saying is the reason Holder had a bad couple of days? I'm just curious cause I really must have missed the whole Holder is injured and out thing...

He was dressed out tonight?

[Todd4State]

I am not saying at all that Lindgren is not good enough for a spot in the rotation but you know how butch and cohen are.. They want another "Girado" type inning eater out of the pen. Cohen has his mind made up on that with Lindgren.

Sort of- but not really. I think they want seven guys that can do the job. Sometimes you'll hear Cohen talk about how you have to have seven pitchers that you can rely on to be a championship caliber team.

More than anything they want someone that can do the job. Whether that is conventionally like Stratton- or unconventionally like Girodo following Fitts after two innings- I don't think it matters that much to them. But I don't think it's "we have to have another guy just like Girodo". I think they would be OK with a starter giving them seven quality innings as a starter.

[Todd4State]

So is that what we're saying is the reason Holder had a bad couple of days? I'm just curious cause I really must have missed the whole Holder is injured and out thing...

He was dressed out tonight?

I'm not sure if he is dressing out or not. He has been seen with a splint on his middle finger of his pitching hand. Is it why he has struggled? Maybe- maybe not. I think he gets the save against Memphis if Randolph doesn't go all Jason Burkley on us in the ninth inning.

[mstatefan91]

I'm not sure if he is dressing out or not. He has been seen with a splint on his middle finger of his pitching hand. Is it why he has struggled? Maybe- maybe not. I think he gets the save against Memphis if Randolph doesn't go all Jason Burkley on us in the ninth inning.

He caught the ceremonial first pitch tonight and was in uniform.

Agreed. The blown save against Memphis is not 100% his fault, finger or not.

[Dallas_Dawg]

I really think coaches overanalyze who starters and relievers are at this point. I say you take your best 3 pitchers at any given time and start them.
The guys who have shown the ability to pitch more than a few innings don't give a shit if it's to start a game or relief work.
If you are a competitor who has talent, chances are you just want to take the ball and get mother****ers out.
That being said, Lindgren, Fitts, and Bracewell should be our starters. That leaves Holder, Hudson, Gentry, MITCHELL, Cox, Brown, etc to come out of the bullpen as needed in SEC games. That's about 7 experienced pitches and 2 talented but unproven arms to use if the situation arises.
Our pitching staff is probably as good as it ever has been, and Cohen will put it in its proper order. We will make a run with this staff.

[bulldogcountry1]

I think Garner will be fine if he can show some maturity when he's behind in the count. You can't be taking swings that make your heltmet rattle around on your head when you have two strikes on you.

Collins is really starting to look confortable behind the plate. His hitting seems to be improving as well.

[The Croom Diaries]

It's interesting to see how folks have gravitated towards Heck instead of Britton. Gee, I seem to remember someone saying Heck was a better defender than Britt and then being criticized for it. Who could that have been?

[Jacksondevildog]

Ive seen enough out of Heck to know that he's our best defender at SS. We need the best defender there, regardless of how they hit. Our mantra is pitching and defense. If our defense struggles, our confidence will dwindle.

[thedawg]

Cohen gave two guys that have been in the program and "paid their dues" a shot.. Both Britton and Randolph got their chance and it didnt work out... Now Collins and Heck hopefully settle in... Britton still has value as a late defensive sub like Sam Frost

[RAYn_Man]

It's interesting to see how folks have gravitated towards Heck instead of Britton. Gee, I seem to remember someone saying Heck was a better defender than Britt and then being criticized for it. Who could that have been?

You were bashed for saying Matthew Britton was on the field for his offense. Heck is a good defender, but definitely doesn't have the tools that Britton does. Heck is more of an Adam Frazier out there. Will make all the routine plays, but isn't going to make many amazing plays. But that is what we need, consistency. And Heck has shown a lot of gamesmanship at the plate.

[Will James]

I was very high on Heck and he's proving why. Him Detz and Vickerson are gamers. Tough start but looks like we're finally seeing what we got.

Now just need Lingo to throw 110 innings

[Goat Holder]

Todd I usually don't agree much with you but I do in this thread.

I will say that I'm about tired of these guys like Heck coming in and taking starting positions. There's no reason for our high school infielders to suck this bad. 3 JUCOs starting on the infield right now, and none of them are outstanding. They are all solid, with Pirtle being above average. And we have better players out there (Humphreys, Britton and Hann), but none of them will step up. Humphreys and Hann are understandable, they are young. But Britton really has no excuse, he is too damn talented to not be starting on the middle infield in his 3rd year. Cohen gave him every shot before having to go to the 'safe' option in Heck.

I'm telling you, I love Cohen and the way we play, but our development of some of our high school guys has to get better. Our best players aren't panning out - Bole, Norris, Woodruff.....and even Britton. He was a high level recruit himself, and prompted Cohen to start him as a freshman due to his ability. Either we aren't recruiting good players or we are recruiting head cases. Maybe this current class with Humphreys, Swinarski and Collins will change that trend. But guys like Woodruff and Britton are too talented to have them sitting on the bench (obviously Woodruff is maybe getting it together).

[Will James]

What has Hann done to impress? I guess I'm just not seeing it because as far as I can tell the guy can't hit.

[SignalToNoise]

I seem to remember a lot of guys being real high on Britton and I couldn't figure it out. I just don't see it.

[Goat Holder]

Why are hardly any of our high school recruits gamers. See my post I just made. Vickerson only adds to the fire. It seems we are a JUCO program. I have no problem with that if we win but damn, why aren't our high level recruits working out so we don't NEED so many JUCO?

[Goat Holder]

His talent is obvious.

[engie]

High ranked guys are going to be busts. Everywhere. That's just how it works out. Other guys are going to be stars that come out of nowhere. We seem to be doing it pretty damn well overall.

Let's keep in mind that last year every player on the field outside of Detz and Pirtle were recruited while MSU was still in total dumpster fire mode with no guarantee of winning big or being an elite baseball school again. That's hard obstacles to overcome in recruiting -- and we went to a title game. One whole class later, we are basically cherrypicking the country right alongside LSU, South Carolina, and Vanderbilt...

When you sign the number of prospects we do -- with the expectations that come with them -- you are going to have some busts. It's the nature of the game everywhere. What's crazy is the value we've gotten from overlooked JUCO guys that weren't considered nationally elite or prominent...

[Will James]

Why are hardly any of our high school recruits gamers. See my post I just made. Vickerson only adds to the fire. It seems we are a JUCO program. I have no problem with that if we win but damn, why aren't our high level recruits working out so we don't NEED so many JUCO?

i think the elite guys are well understood. But comparing a non-elite signee with someone you can see at JUCO for a year or two.... Very similar. I think we utilize JUCO very well. There is tons of talent in those ranks and our program should be able to pick across the nation who we want.

[bully99]

Goatholder calling out Cohen's recruiting.WOW. The notion that Cohen is "cherrypicking" the country is just a stupid statement. And yeah I'm calling you out engine. You ain't nearly the expert you think you are. No more nice guy from me.

[Goat Holder]

I got no problem doing that, as long as they produce. I'm a big proponent of JUCO recrootin in football so I won't be hypocritical I suppose. I guess I got a little turned off by all the Polk II JUCO busts.

[engie]

Goatholder calling out Cohen's recruiting.WOW. The notion that Cohen is "cherrypicking" the country is just a stupid statement. And yeah I'm calling you out engine. You ain't nearly the expert you think you are. No more nice guy from me.

LOL, ok. How about starting by spelling my name right, dumb ass. And Goat wasn't calling out Cohen's recruiting -- he was raising a legitimate question about the number of high school guys that were considered elite coming in that never panned out. Unlike anything your moronic ass has said, Goat is actually a good baseball poster that I respect in these discussions.

You're right -- the PG 9.5 top 5 round projected true freshman starting catcher for us FROM CALI****ingFORNIA is definitely not indicative of cherrypicking the country... #2 recruiting class... Oh, and look -- another highly-ranked Californian that will be here next year. Please continue crying about it.

[Goat Holder]

Let's keep in mind that last year every player on the field outside of Detz and Pirtle were recruited while MSU was still in total dumpster fire mode with no guarantee of winning big or being an elite baseball school again.

I'm not disagreeing with you per se, but this isn't really my issue. I know the situation and Cohen's done a great job. My issue is with Bole, Norris, Woodruff type guys. Guys who WERE highly thought of, no matter the state of our program. Those guys were elite recruits. And we didn't get much return for the scholarship money....yet (at least with Woodruff). Taylor Stark is another.

It's not a huge problem, especially considering our results, but one I'd like to see get fixed.

[Goat Holder]

I'm not calling out his recruiting. I'm calling out, specifically, the development of a FEW players. Those guys had the accolades and we signed them, so our quote on quote "recruiting" of them isn't the issue.

This the second time you've latched onto me because in your twisted mind I'm somehow agreeing with you that Cohen can't recruit. Get off my nutsack pal, my wife wants a turn.

[bulldogcountry1]

It's interesting to see how folks have gravitated towards Heck instead of Britton. Gee, I seem to remember someone saying Heck was a better defender than Britt and then being criticized for it. Who could that have been?

That's just what was relayed to us by the coaches. I like what I have seen from Heck so far, but he hasn't really been tested much. For whatever reason, Britton can't be consistent under the lights. We will see what Heck can do this weekend.

[ButcherShop]

This freshman class has 3 "elite" guys and the rest are still good players with lots of potential, the elite guys being Humphreys, Collins, and Hudson. All 3 of those guys have already shown and proven how good they really are. Humphreys led the team in hitting this fall as well as played far above defense at 3B. His slow start at the plate this season can be chalked up to the adjustment to big time college baseball, the speed of the game and just the overall difference from high school ball, but I think he's starting to get comfortable and heat up. Collins has settled down and has done a great job of managing the game and working with the pitching staff. Hudson has shown his potential to be a future 1st rounder based solely on his big-league caliber arm strength. The kid hit 97 in his first ever start. Give Butch another 2 years with this guy and he could be very very special. All the talk about our high school recruits not panning out is stupid. We've had 4 top 10 round picks, 2 of them being first rounders in the past 2 years all of which were high school recruits. You can't expect every high school player that comes in to be an All-American. That's why JuCo is helpful. You get to see kids compete and prove themselves against higher levels of competition.

[engie]

I'm not disagreeing with you per se, but this isn't really my issue. I know the situation and Cohen's done a great job. My issue is with Bole, Norris, Woodruff type guys. Guys who WERE highly thought of, no matter the state of our program. Those guys were elite recruits. And we didn't get much return for the scholarship money....yet (at least with Woodruff). Taylor Stark is another.

It's not a huge problem, especially considering our results, but one I'd like to see get fixed.

Woodruff has been elite though. Outside of coming back from summer ball with a blown out arm last year... He was as good as a true freshman as you can ask -- and he's going to be elite this year once he gets his offspeed command and the sharpness back in his breaker. The funny thing is -- look back at Woody's stats last year -- they would have basically made him the Friday night ace in each of Cohen's first 2 years...and a weekend starter in year 3. That's when he was humming it up there at 82 mph...

Norris never had the determination. Uber talented, but just didn't have it mentally. Too talented to skip on with the talent level we had on campus at the time -- even if we "saw" that he was soft in advance. There was always the chance that Cohen could change that.

Bole was just an all-out bust -- as were alot of our early pitching signees -- and practically all of the guys Cohen inherited. Alot of that was us "taking chances" on talented, but flawed, players and hoping they developed. In some cases(Stratton, Graveman, Girodo eventually) they did, in countless others, they didn't. At that point, we were still dealing with the carryover stinch of Russ McNickle's arm-blowing program and Polk's sabotage. We're taking much closer to "sure things" now than we were in 2009 and 2010, that's for sure...

The bottom line is, we've got one of, if not, the deepest pitching staff in the country. Given that, it stands to reason that we must have a higher "hit rate" than everyone else does it not? I'll withhold judgement on the offense for another couple of weeks as the young guys and newcomers(sans Vickerson) start to settle in...

[messageboardsuperhero]

Goatholder calling out Cohen's recruiting.WOW. The notion that Cohen is "cherrypicking" the country is just a stupid statement. And yeah I'm calling you out engine. You ain't nearly the expert you think you are. No more nice guy from me.

Seriously? This again?

Look, nobody here (other than you) thinks that Cohen isn't a good recruiter. You are alone on this. Please just quit talking about it.

[The Croom Diaries]

You were bashed for saying Matthew Britton was on the field for his offense. Heck is a good defender, but definitely doesn't have the tools that Britton does. Heck is more of an Adam Frazier out there. Will make all the routine plays, but isn't going to make many amazing plays. But that is what we need, consistency. And Heck has shown a lot of gamesmanship at the plate.

My statement was that if Britton won the job it would be for his offense. In other words, I think Heck is a better defender so the only way Britton was going to win the job is if he hit better. I did not say the reason Britton got the nod was for his offense.

[Lefthandersrule]

It's interesting to see how folks have gravitated towards Heck instead of Britton. Gee, I seem to remember someone saying Heck was a better defender than Britt and then being criticized for it. Who could that have been?

I liked Britton at 3rd last night. He doesnt have the time to think about anything at 3rd like he does at SS.

I believe that this weekend will play out as to who gets to start from here on out. We will go into Arizona with our lineup that will start the season.

As far as starting pitching goes I think as long as our three weekend guys (Woody, Fitts, Hudson) don't throw an egg they will stay there. If Hudson slips I think they throw Brown on Wednesday and get Ben ready for a weekend slot.

I have not heard if any of the "relievers" are stretching it out in bullpens to increase stamina so I would think that Lingo will stay in the relief role (at least until Holder is healthy).

Liked seeing Cox dominate last night as well.

[The Croom Diaries]

That's just what was relayed to us by the coaches. I like what I have seen from Heck so far, but he hasn't really been tested much. For whatever reason, Britton can't be consistent under the lights. We will see what Heck can do this weekend.

And that was my point. People just forming their opinions based solely off what the coaches say. I watched Britton looks like a doufus as a freshman at 2B, I wasn't sure how he was going to become an all-SEC defensive SS now. Britton is a Sam Frost type player to me - he is athletic with good range but he can't hit a lick and makes baffling errors all the time. But Frosty got it together his senior year so maybe Britt will too...although it's certainly not too late for his to make a huge impact this year and he could do that. I hope he wins the job eventually, I just have little confidence he'll do that.