9 Game Losing Streak

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

If Rick Ray loses out, that would be 14 games in a row we have lost. Has there ever been a coach in the BCS conferences to lose 14 straight to finish out a season and be retained? I know our situation wasn't great but there have been situations much worse over the years. I don't see how you can keep a coach and sell season tickets with 14 losses in a row to finish a season.

[TheRef]

The beast has awoken...I'll get my popcorn.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_IAWdoIpq-w/Uq_R5lemLLI/AAAAAAAAAW8/qsXA4nWryJA/s1600/eating+popcorn+rg.gif

[CadaverDawg]

If Rick Ray loses out, that would be 14 games in a row we have lost. Has there ever been a coach in the BCS conferences to lose 14 straight to finish out a season and be retained? I know our situation wasn't great but there have been situations much worse over the years. I don't see how you can keep a coach and sell season tickets with 14 losses in a row to finish a season.

We will only do one of those next season more than likely.*

[Political Hack]

you can keep a coach after that. you just can't keep a coach and sell tickets.

[Coach34]

If Rick Ray loses out, that would be 14 games in a row we have lost. Has there ever been a coach in the BCS conferences to lose 14 straight to finish out a season and be retained? I know our situation wasn't great but there have been situations much worse over the years. I don't see how you can keep a coach and sell season tickets with 14 losses in a row to finish a season.

Tom Crean went 1-17 at Indiana his 1st season....and yes I know they were on probation- that's how our AD views our program with us having 1 player- ONE- leftover from the previous regime.

Ray gone get 4 years bruh

[maroonmania]

Yep, Rick Ray has yet to win even ONE game in the month of February during his HC tenure at MSU.

[Dawg61]

TCU which beat us in the Hump is 0-15 in the Big12 right now.

[bully99]

Problem for Ray is he's shown no sign he can recruit, instate, out of state or around the world. I lived through the bellard, boyd era, brilliant coaching minds, and horrible recruiters. Can't win without players. In fairness to them msu has never been an easy place to recruit, even Ron Polk will tell you that.

[Goat from MSU]

Coach :How long is Ray' contract and are we still paying Stansbury?
Tom Crean went 1-17 at Indiana his 1st season....and yes I know they were on probation- that's how our AD views our program with us having 1 player- ONE- leftover from the previous regime.

Ray gone get 4 years bruh

[dawgs]

Tom Crean went 1-17 at Indiana his 1st season....and yes I know they were on probation- that's how our AD views our program with us having 1 player- ONE- leftover from the previous regime.

Ray gone get 4 years bruh

tom crean went to a final 4, 5 ncaa tourneys, and 3 NITs in 9 seasons at marquette before getting to indiana. he definitely had earned a bit more benefit of the doubt than a guy that's never been a HC and was never considered a top assistant before we hired him.

i'm not saying ray won't get at least 1 more year, and probably 2 more, but i am saying comparing him to someone like tom crean is a very, very poor comparison because crean had a good track record before taking the indiana job. kinda like the cohen comparisons you are hell bent on making in other threads.

[smootness]

tom crean went to a final 4, 5 ncaa tourneys, and 3 NITs in 9 seasons at marquette before getting to indiana. he definitely had earned a bit more benefit of the doubt than a guy that's never been a HC and was never considered a top assistant before we hired him.

i'm not saying ray won't get at least 1 more year, and probably 2 more, but i am saying comparing him to someone like tom crean is a very, very poor comparison because crean had a good track record before taking the indiana job. kinda like the cohen comparisons you are hell bent on making in other threads.

But no one is comparing Ray to Crean. No one is saying, 'Guys chill, he's just like Tom Crean'. Crean isn't a good coach because he struggled initially at Indiana.

But the point is, even a really good coach like Tom Crean struggled really badly when he inherited a terrible situation. That doesn't mean ray is a really good coach, it just means that he inherited a terrible situation so we need to be patient to find out what kind of coach he truly is because even a really good coach in a situation like that is going to struggle. So there's a chance he is a really good coach still digging himself out of an awful situation.

And to the OP, there have not been a whole lot of situations much worse than ours was when Ray got here. Claiming our situation 'wasn't great' is a classic attempt to downplay our problems in order to make the coach look worse.

The only guys left from Stans' last team, a team that exited the NIT in the 1st round, entering last year were Jalen Steele, Wendell Lewis, and Roquez Johnson...two role players (and Lewis hardly ever played the year prior) and one guy who never played. He also inherited a decent recruiting class but one that was woefully short on numbers considering the number of spots he needed to fill.

We had 5-6 scholarship players at times last year...and essentially no real walk-ons to speak of. One walk-on contributed a ton last year, and that walk-on was the towel boy from the year before, the guy who played so poorly when he finally got scrub minutes that the entire team was laughing their heads off. That is the guy that sometimes played 20+ minutes for us last year.

That is an unquestionably awful situation.

[mic]

Another problem with recruiting is that the talent level in the state hasn't been there the past few years like it normally was. Only been a couple kids from the state each year that were highly recruited. 2015 class best player going to UK and we are getting 2 of the other top players.
When our EX coach took over there was a lot of talent in the state. And we got most if not basically all of them. Much easier to recruit kids from your own state.. It takes a time to bring in players outside of Mississippi to come here.
Too bad we missed out on one of the best a few years ago in Summers... We overlooked him.
RR does have to recruit better. Everyone can agree on that. We will have a full roster next year. If next years team doesn't make a push at the NIT then the leash on RR will be getting very tight.. But he has only been here 19 months...

[dawgs]

But no one is comparing Ray to Crean. No one is saying, 'Guys chill, he's just like Tom Crean'. Crean isn't a good coach because he struggled initially at Indiana.

But the point is, even a really good coach like Tom Crean struggled really badly when he inherited a terrible situation. That doesn't mean ray is a really good coach, it just means that he inherited a terrible situation so we need to be patient to find out what kind of coach he truly is because even a really good coach in a situation like that is going to struggle. So there's a chance he is a really good coach still digging himself out of an awful situation.


by bringing up tom crean without acknowledging the differences in the 2 coaches' track records is directly comparing the 2.

[Coach34]

But no one is comparing Ray to Crean. No one is saying, 'Guys chill, he's just like Tom Crean'. Crean isn't a good coach because he struggled initially at Indiana.

But the point is, even a really good coach like Tom Crean struggled really badly when he inherited a terrible situation. That doesn't mean ray is a really good coach, it just means that he inherited a terrible situation so we need to be patient to find out what kind of coach he truly is because even a really good coach in a situation like that is going to struggle. So there's a chance he is a really good coach still digging himself out of an awful situation.

I shouldnt have had to explain this- but thank you for doing it.

[engie]

I shouldnt have had to explain this- but thank you for doing it.

Yep. Anyone that misunderstands the analogies and comparisons is pushing an agenda so hard that common sense has left their building. Makes the topic almost impossible to discuss with them on any level whatsoever. And we've got a bunch of them...

[Political Hack]

I've always viewed this hire as a "bridge hire" to bigger and better things. We need talent, stability, work ethic, and excitement for the program to take the next step. Right now we're 1 for 4 in those departments. If we can get 2 of 4 next season it'll help, but 3 of 4 would be preferable.

How many of those "departments" do you see this program excelling within next season?

[smootness]

by bringing up tom crean without acknowledging the differences in the 2 coaches' track records is directly comparing the 2.

No, it isn't. It's saying, 'Look what happened when a really good coach took over a dumpster fire. So there's no way to know yet how good Ray is.'

There is a distinct difference between that and, 'Crean had a tough time, too, so Ray = Crean'.

[Coach34]

by bringing up tom crean without acknowledging the differences in the 2 coaches' track records is directly comparing the 2.

Richard Williams went 7-21 his 1st season when he took over this awful program. He and John Brady went out and recruited a large group of freshmen that offseason that led us to an SEC title in Williams 5th year. Williams last went to a Sweet 16 and then to a FF with the help of recruiter Rick Standsbury.

Rob Evans took over a terrible Ole Miss program in 1993. It was his 1st HC gig. He went 10-18, 14-13, 8-19, and 12-15 in his first 4 seasons. He then led them to back to back NCAA Tourney appearances and had left a foundation for Rod Barnes who inherited a golden situation from which he reaped early rewards.


You ****ers keep acting like coaches are coming into the SEC and turning programs around immediately when in reality almost nobody is. You cany honestly count Kentucky- they are not like everyone else. This Stansbury Lover myth that it only takes a couple of players to turn a basketball program around isnt being proven anywhere. So the only coach to come in the league and make a big impact in recent memory was Bruce Pearl- and we saw what happened there. But even with that- Peterson left Pearl Chris Lofton, CJ Watson, Major Wingate, and Andre Patterson...all very good SEC players. What very good SEC player was Ray left with? And dont give me the Hood shit- he was already out there door and had feelers out for transferring since February.

We'll learn what Ray is about the next 2 seasons

[Goat Holder]

Not sure, but our 2010 baseball team finished the year 3-16 after beat Tennessee on Super Bulldog Weekend and Alcorn, starting with the Alabama series. Swept by Bama, Ole Miss, Auburn and Vanderbilt all in a row. Also included losses to Jackson State and USM. This basketball season is going similarly, honestly, and many people are drawing parallels to that year. Of course, the Ray-haters are choosing not to see this obvious comparison, but I digress.

At the end of the day, at least the baseball team scored a win over USM and LSU to end that year. It helped springboard us into the following year. That's all I really want Ray to do, just win something here at the end, even if it's just South Carolina. One more besides that would give us hope for next year.

[dawgs]

i'm not a ray hater, i'm just saying that you have to understand why people have a shorter leash with ray than they did with cohen. or than indiana fans had with crean. and despite their proven track records, they both had plenty of detractors after early struggles at their new gigs. so if you can't grasp why fans would really start questioning ray's chances of success right now, then you have your own agenda you are pushing.

and please don't call me a standsbury lover, mmmkay. it's possible to not be a stansbury lover and question ray as the future of our program. they are not mutually exclusive opinions.

[Goat from MSU]

Good post ,Ray's and Richard Williams situation is almost alike as far as talent ,yea I want to win now but it not going to happen .Next year is Ray's first full roster let it play out . Besides if we let him go now we would paying 3 coaches and starting over again. Next year could be Ray's tipping point either way.
Richard Williams went 7-21 his 1st season when he took over this awful program. He and John Brady went out and recruited a large group of freshmen that offseason that led us to an SEC title in Williams 5th year. Williams last went to a Sweet 16 and then to a FF with the help of recruiter Rick Standsbury.

Rob Evans took over a terrible Ole Miss program in 1993. It was his 1st HC gig. He went 10-18, 14-13, 8-19, and 12-15 in his first 4 seasons. He then led them to back to back NCAA Tourney appearances and had left a foundation for Rod Barnes who inherited a golden situation from which he reaped early rewards.


You ****ers keep acting like coaches are coming into the SEC and turning programs around immediately when in reality almost nobody is. You cany honestly count Kentucky- they are not like everyone else. This Stansbury Lover myth that it only takes a couple of players to turn a basketball program around isnt being proven anywhere. So the only coach to come in the league and make a big impact in recent memory was Bruce Pearl- and we saw what happened there. But even with that- Peterson left Pearl Chris Lofton, CJ Watson, Major Wingate, and Andre Patterson...all very good SEC players. What very good SEC player was Ray left with? And dont give me the Hood shit- he was already out there door and had feelers out for transferring since February.

We'll learn what Ray is about the next 2 seasons

[smootness]

i'm not a ray hater, i'm just saying that you have to understand why people have a shorter leash with ray than they did with cohen. or than indiana fans had with crean. and despite their proven track records, they both had plenty of detractors after early struggles at their new gigs. so if you can't grasp why fans would really start questioning ray's chances of success right now, then you have your own agenda you are pushing.

and please don't call me a standsbury lover, mmmkay. it's possible to not be a stansbury lover and question ray as the future of our program. they are not mutually exclusive opinions.

I don't see any problem in saying, 'I personally don't believe Ray will turn it around,' or, 'I question whether Ray is the guy'. I don't blame anyone for not 100% believing in Ray to turn it around.

What I don't understand, based on other situations at other schools or other programs at State, is anyone saying, 'Ray is terrible and won't ever get it done' based on what has happened so far.

The reason to make the comparison to Crean or Cohen is to say that if the situation is bad enough, it doesn't matter who you hire. I tend to believe that no matter who we hired, the first 2 years were going to be really bad. We actually did better than I think anyone could have reasonably expected last year. So why make a judgement one way or the other yet? We still have to give it time to play out. We shouldn't fire him after 2 years just because he didn't have a track record.

And there were plenty of people who gave Cohen no leash at all despite his previous success.

[dawgs]

No, it isn't. It's saying, 'Look what happened when a really good coach took over a dumpster fire. So there's no way to know yet how good Ray is.'

There is a distinct difference between that and, 'Crean had a tough time, too, so Ray = Crean'.

the whole thing is about people trusting the HC to lead us out of the wilderness. due to his previous success crean was more trusted to lead indiana out of the wilderness. because ray has no track record, it's hard to trust him. it takes a leap of faith with no actual evidence of success to support your belief in him.

[dawgs]

I don't see any problem in saying, 'I personally don't believe Ray will turn it around,' or, 'I question whether Ray is the guy'. I don't blame anyone for not 100% believing in Ray to turn it around.

What I don't understand, based on other situations at other schools or other programs at State, is anyone saying, 'Ray is terrible and won't ever get it done' based on what has happened so far.

The reason to make the comparison to Crean or Cohen is to say that if the situation is bad enough, it doesn't matter who you hire. I tend to believe that no matter who we hired, the first 2 years were going to be really bad. We actually did better than I think anyone could have reasonably expected last year. So why make a judgement one way or the other yet? We still have to give it time to play out. We shouldn't fire him after 2 years just because he didn't have a track record.

And there were plenty of people who gave Cohen no leash at all despite his previous success.

i think most people are just looking for moderate signs of improvement, but we don't see it in the on court performance, in the W/L columns, in recruiting. and when you couple that with the lack of track record, you have people wanting something they can believe in.

[thunderclap]

I only wish the late, great John McKay was still around to summarize our basketball situation. Something like:

Ray hasn't really gotten players with any size, but they make up for it by not being able to shoot.

[dawgs]

i think most people are just looking for moderate signs of improvement, but we don't see it in the on court performance, in the W/L columns, in recruiting. and when you couple that with the lack of track record, you have people wanting something they can believe in.

in fact, i'd say ray's inability to make any waves on the recruiting trail is what's got most everyone worried right now. and i know he was brought in to "recruit differently" (so spare me the talk C34), but we have to sign major conference caliber recruits if we want to compete and we aren't doing that. and there aren't any on the horizon either. it's hard to sell the fanbase on the future when anyone with the internet can see the future doesn't look all that bright either based on the players we are bringing in compared to our peers.

[engie]

i'm not a ray hater, i'm just saying that you have to understand why people have a shorter leash with ray than they did with cohen. or than indiana fans had with crean.
Translate this tangibly for me. Nobody GAF what a coach did at their previous gigs when they are failing at their current one. Didn't buy countless SEC coaches any extra time in basketball. When they were done, they were done. Need I start going through the names of all the guys that have failed in the SEC in the past 5 years? It's CHOCK FULL of guys that won big at prior stops. And how often did their "track record" earn them more time? Rarely. If ever.

Having a "shorter leash" on Ray is a bullshit approach in the first place that shows bias against him and sabotage to his chances for success here. Having a "shorter leash" means those same people are basically expecting RAY to be BETTER THAN COHEN AND CREAN. Do you not see that? People expect him to turn around a similar circumstance more quickly = expecting him to be better. Nevermind that he's a first time head coach that's learning on the job where logical people feel that mistakes are to be expected. So, in giving him a "shorter leash", you've basically asked him to be John Wooden. Because you've asked him to be light years better than the 2 previously-mentioned coaches that have played in national title series.

Do you REALLY think Cohen had any different leash than Raffo would have had? Really? Because if you do, that would imply that you think we would have fired Raffo after the struggle in year 2 -- something that WOULD NOT have happened. He would have gotten year 3 to earn his stripes in the exact same way Cohen did -- and the exact same way Ray will. Seems to me that the "leashes" were consistent all along.


and despite their proven track records, they both had plenty of detractors after early struggles at their new gigs. so if you can't grasp why fans would really start questioning ray's chances of success right now, then you have your own agenda you are pushing.
And the point is that those fans were idiots. And the ones with their minds made up right now fall into the same category. There is no reason to "start questioning" Ray at this juncture. All that does is make an impossible situation even tougher. Year 3 -- Stansbury standards and expectations. Logic implies that we can start questioning him then -- when he's had a fair shake.

[dawgs]

Translate this tangibly for me. Nobody GAF what a coach did at their previous gigs when they are failing at their current one. Didn't buy countless SEC coaches any extra time in basketball. When they were done, they were done. Need I start going through the names of all the guys that have failed in the SEC in the past 5 years? It's CHOCK FULL of guys that won big at prior stops. And how often did their "track record" earn them more time? Rarely. If ever.

Having a "shorter leash" on Ray is a bullshit approach in the first place that shows bias against him and sabotage to his chances for success here. Having a "shorter leash" means those same people are basically expecting RAY to be BETTER THAN COHEN AND CREAN. Do you not see that? People expect him to turn around a similar circumstance more quickly = expecting him to be better. Nevermind that he's a first time head coach that's learning on the job where logical people feel that mistakes are to be expected. So, in giving him a "shorter leash", you've basically asked him to be John Wooden. Because you've asked him to be light years better than the 2 previously-mentioned coaches that have played in national title series.

Do you REALLY think Cohen had any different leash than Raffo would have had? Really? Because if you do, that would imply that you think we would have fired Raffo after the struggle in year 2 -- something that WOULD NOT have happened. He would have gotten year 3 to earn his stripes in the exact same way Cohen did -- and the exact same way Ray will. Seems to me that the "leashes" were consistent all along.


And the point is that those fans were idiots. And the ones with their minds made up right now fall into the same category. There is no reason to "start questioning" Ray at this juncture. All that does is make an impossible situation even tougher. Year 3 -- Stansbury standards and expectations. Logic implies that we can start questioning him then -- when he's had a fair shake.


and please don't call me a standsbury lover, mmmkay. it's possible to not be a stansbury lover and question ray as the future of our program. they are not mutually exclusive opinions.

look, he's not going to be fired this year. but if you can't grasp the reasoning behind a lot of the fanbase getting antsy, then you have your ****ing head in the sand. i'm not saying he's going to get fired, i'm saying that berating people for not having the blind faith you and C34 have is refusing to acknowledge that yall are taking a leap of faith while the rest of us are taking a more skeptical approach.

[drunkernhelldawg]

i think most people are just looking for moderate signs of improvement, but we don't see it in the on court performance, in the W/L columns, in recruiting. and when you couple that with the lack of track record, you have people wanting something they can believe in.

I'd say the fact that we're competing in most games rather than merely rolling over is a modest sign of improvement. Not saying this train will get us there, but I do want Ray to get credit for the team competing to win, and I do think that's better than last season.

[engie]

in fact, i'd say ray's inability to make any waves on the recruiting trail is what's got most everyone worried right now. and i know he was brought in to "recruit differently" (so spare me the talk C34), but we have to sign major conference caliber recruits if we want to compete and we aren't doing that. and there aren't any on the horizon either. it's hard to sell the fanbase on the future when anyone with the internet can see the future doesn't look all that bright either based on the players we are bringing in compared to our peers.

Go look at our actual signees/commitments and their offer lists and get back to me. Not nearly as bad as the anti-Ray crowd would have people believe. But they weren't 5*s!!

How many 5*s does our boy Marshall have over at Wichita St right now? Classes on campus(ranking):
2013 - a 2* and a NR
2012 - a 3* and one 4*
2011 - 4 NRs and a 2*
2010 - none
2009 - 2 2*

In other words -- between 1 and 3 fewer than we currently have at MSU. Undefeated and off a Final 4.

[engie]

look, he's not going to be fired this year. but if you can't grasp the reasoning behind a lot of the fanbase getting antsy, then you have your ****ing head in the sand. i'm not saying he's going to get fired, i'm saying that berating people for not having the blind faith you and C34 have is refusing to acknowledge that yall are taking a leap of faith while the rest of us are taking a more skeptical approach.

Link me to any "blind faith" please? All I've ever said is that it's ****ing stupid to judge him on what's happened thusfar.

Our fanbase is impatient idiots. Sorry that you apparently fall into the same category. But I'll keep my head in the sand -- you keep yours up your ass.

[Coach34]

Honest question:

Do you think we would be at least 3-4 games better if we Steele and Lewis this year? I do. A decent shooter and another post player would have done wonders for this team. So at worst- we would be 16-11 right now heading down the stretch. Would you feel better then?

If so- you need to realize that that wouldnt make Ray any better of a coach- it would just mean that Lewis isnt an idiot that smoked his way out of college and Steele wasnt a selfish dick that turned his back on his school and team his last season.

[dawgs]

I'd say the fact that we're competing in most games rather than merely rolling over is a modest sign of improvement. Not saying this train will get us there, but I do want Ray to get credit for the team competing to win, and I do think that's better than last season.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/344/mississippi-state-bulldogs

outside of florida and arkansas, what Ls against even bad teams like tcu and auburn and the glut of mediocre sec teams (ole miss, lsu, a&m, etc) have we really been all that "competitive" in? maybe we are losing by less double digits than expected, but to say we are being competitive against the majority of our schedule is pretty misleading imo.

[dawgs]

Go look at our actual signees/commitments and their offer lists and get back to me. Not nearly as bad as the anti-Ray crowd would have people believe.

we are ranked 72nd with an 84something avg player rating on 247. rivals doesn't give class rankings that low. also, 247 brings up our composite avg, so i can't imagine things would look prettier should rivals go that deep. we're signing other programs' 4th or 5th options as the centerpieces of our class.

[slickdawg]

Ray has a pass with me this year. He needs players, biggest problem by far. I haven't seen us on CNN for fighting in the stands either.

[dawgs]

Link me to any "blind faith" please? All I've ever said is that it's ****ing stupid to judge him on what's happened thusfar.

Our fanbase is impatient idiots. Sorry that you apparently fall into the same category. But I'll keep my head in the sand -- you keep yours up your ass.

you have to see at least why some fans are questioning ray. you have to understand that right? i mean, even his most ardent supporters surely can understand why some people are getting fed up already and not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, right?

[MadDawg]

you have to see at least why some fans are questioning ray. you have to understand that right? i mean, even his most ardent supporters surely can understand why some people are getting fed up already and not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, right?


dawgs, you will never get those with an agenda to understand you. It's not in their best interest.

[dawgs]

Ray has a pass with me this year. He needs players, biggest problem by far. I haven't seen us on CNN for fighting in the stands either.

see this is a common sentiment among the more vocal pro-ray. if we set the bar so low that anything better than team fights in the bleachers is a success, then we'll never go anywhere. i think too many of our fans have the bad taste of sidney and ravern and others lingering in their mouth and so any player that's talented is automatically associated with those head cases, so they are ok recruiting "differently" because it means we aren't getting those kinda guys. but the reality is there's plenty of 4+* talent out there that aren't head cases and work hard. it's ok to go get those guys and play the AAU game to get them, and they turn out to be good representatives of the university.

[Coach34]

look, he's not going to be fired this year. but if you can't grasp the reasoning behind a lot of the fanbase getting antsy, then you have your ****ing head in the sand. i'm not saying he's going to get fired, i'm saying that berating people for not having the blind faith you and C34 have is refusing to acknowledge that yall are taking a leap of faith while the rest of us are taking a more skeptical approach.

I dont have blind faith and dont know that he can recruit well enough to make it. But that's why I say "let it play out"

I do like the discipline
I do like new S&C work we put in
I like that fact that our motion offense has actual motion in it. We dont stand around just tossing up 3-balls vs a zone- we work hard to penetrate and find creases to break it down.

So those things are extreme improvements over the previous regime.

Now then:

I dont like the lack of depth, rebounding, poor shooting, and poor passes we make. But some of this will correct itself thru another year of maturity and having a full roster- some of it will need to be fixed thru better coaching

We'll see what next year brings us

[dawgs]

I do like the discipline
I do like new S&C work we put in
I like that fact that our motion offense has actual motion in it. We dont stand around just tossing up 3-balls vs a zone- we work hard to penetrate and find creases to break it down.

imo, those things had gotten so bad, that hiring me as the HC would have been an improvement in those areas. so while it's commendable that ray is doing better than stans the last few years in those areas, there literally was nowhere to go but up.

[smootness]

you have to see at least why some fans are questioning ray. you have to understand that right? i mean, even his most ardent supporters surely can understand why some people are getting fed up already and not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, right?

I understand that there are a lot of people who are impatient and rush to make decisions without letting situations fully play themselves out. So it's not surprising. And I understand people questioning whether Ray will get it done.

What I don't understand is why anyone would honestly evaluate the situation and say, 'Ray isn't going to get it done, terrible hire'.

We knew the first two years were going to be really tough. Just because they in fact are tough doesn't mean we should change our feelings of the coach. Some people may not have understood what it was going to mean when they said, 'He'll have at least 3 years,' but saying that means that he won't be judged until year 3.

[drunkernhelldawg]

Ray has a pass with me this year. He needs players, biggest problem by far. I haven't seen us on CNN for fighting in the stands either.

You watch CNN?

[notsofarawaydawg]

http://philadelphiariders.com/gallery3/var/albums/Tuckers-Photos/jtucker_misc/beating_a_dead_horse.gif?m=1323592852

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

This team would be a lot better had we kept Josh Gray. He is tearing it up in JUCO and his highlight tape is nothing to laugh at. Also losing Andre Applewhite still makes no sense to me. Now that we aren't even playing Fred, I have to think he is at least wavering on transferring. This program isn't as sound as yall make it out to be.

[slickdawg]

You watch CNN?

I had headline news on the morning that TRS was fighting in the stands.

[smootness]

This team would be a lot better had we kept Josh Gray. He is tearing it up in JUCO and his highlight tape is nothing to laugh at. Also losing Andre Applewhite still makes no sense to me. Now that we aren't even playing Fred, I have to think he is at least wavering on transferring. This program isn't as sound as yall make it out to be.

Gray leaving was apparently a mutual decision and not a sign that the program is in bad shape. He also left Texas Tech and committed to at least two different programs once in JUCO; he seems to be a headcase. Who knows on Applewhite, but basketball players often transfer. I have no reason to believe Fred Thomas is considering a transfer.

[Raytoraid83]

Who knows on Applewhite, but basketball players often transfer. I have no reason to believe Fred Thomas is considering a transfer.

How many transfer mid-season while starting or getting solid bench minutes?

[Coach34]

This team would be a lot better had we kept Josh Gray. He is tearing it up in JUCO and his highlight tape is nothing to laugh at. Also losing Andre Applewhite still makes no sense to me. Now that we aren't even playing Fred, I have to think he is at least wavering on transferring. This program isn't as sound as yall make it out to be.

Josh Gray wanted to make sure he was still getting his "love" when the new coach was hired. Ray told his people "the love" wasnt an option anymore. Gray decided to go to TT. And not surprisingly- he left there after a not so stellar freshman year in which he shot the ball worse from 3 than Sword. And Sword cant shoot the 3.

I hate Applewhite left. Certainly hurt some.

Why would Fred be considering a transfer? Thats literally not been mentioned anywhere

[Coach34]

How many transfer mid-season while starting or getting solid bench minutes?

Ones that run their mouth when they shouldnt and are told by their coach to carry their ass somewhere else

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

If Ray doesn't learn to show some "love" then he won't have a job in the near future. This is the SEC not upward basketball.

[tcdog70]

tom crean went to a final 4, 5 ncaa tourneys, and 3 NITs in 9 seasons at marquette before getting to indiana. he definitely had earned a bit more benefit of the doubt than a guy that's never been a HC and was never considered a top assistant before we hired him.

i'm not saying ray won't get at least 1 more year, and probably 2 more, but i am saying comparing him to someone like tom crean is a very, very poor comparison because crean had a good track record before taking the indiana job. kinda like the cohen comparisons you are hell bent on making in other threads.

be careful, when you bring logic to this board vs obscure/one sided stats-you will get called nasty little names.

[SouthMsDawg]

Tom Crean went 1-17 at Indiana his 1st season....and yes I know they were on probation- that's how our AD views our program with us having 1 player- ONE- leftover from the previous regime.

Ray gone get 4 years bruh

This is year 2 and NO PROBATION

Apples and Oranges

[engie]

This is year 2 and NO PROBATION

Apples and Oranges

Probation comes in all shapes and sizes and is not ONLY mandated by the NCAA. What Ray inherited was, indeed, probation.

[SouthMsDawg]

How many transfer mid-season while starting or getting solid bench minutes?

Great Question

I still can't figure this out unless Ray dog cussed Applewhite out all of the time or something to make him want to leave the program. What type of players leaves a team midway through the year when he is starting.

[Goat from MSU]

That is not going to happen ,that is not in Ray's DNA .Look at Pollard ,Gray ,other guard we release everyone transfer from the school they went too ,that might be called head cases . Shaun Smith and the Euro did not last at their schools either . I know I am proving C34 points but those are the facts.
If Ray doesn't learn to show some "love" then he won't have a job in the near future. This is the SEC not upward basketball.

[SouthMsDawg]

Probation comes in all shapes and sizes and is not ONLY mandated by the NCAA. What Ray inherited was, indeed, probation.

Ray did't use his scholarships properly and tried to be Mr. Authority and swept out 3 good players, lost Hood to transfer, and essentially only signed Bortchert and Bloodman.

Carry on, yall can keep hyping up the Rick Ray experience, but I'm done with basketball until we hire a coach that has experience even if its as the HC or a JUCO or D2 schools. Look at Donnie Tyndall at USM and what he is doing. USM's last 2 hires have been coaches with Division 1 head coaching experience and both have paid dividends and helped them get their basketball program back on track.

[engie]

Al, please don't make me pull the Cohen archives again...

"Mr Authority" = don't fail drug tests.

[SouthMsDawg]

Al, please don't make me pull the Cohen archives again...

"Mr Authority" = don't fail drug tests.


Cohen had 10+ YEARS OF HEAD COACHING EXPERIENCE

Ray ZERO

Thats my biggest argument.

[Coach34]

This is year 2 and NO PROBATION

Apples and Oranges

Could probation be any worse than having literally 1 player- ONE- play for you from the previous regime? That's about as rough of sanctions as you can get.

And for the last time- Ray did not run those guys off- they were let go by the athletic department for failing drug tests per AD rules. Ray doesn't schedule drug tests for the athletes

[SouthMsDawg]

Rick Ray is in so far over his head its unreal.

14 game losing streak to end this season and less than 2,000 warm bodies in the hump aint the way to end the year.

[engie]

Cohen had 10+ YEARS OF HEAD COACHING EXPERIENCE

Ray ZERO

Thats my biggest argument.

Yet you thought he was a total moron in year 2 and were ready to go another direction -- exactly as you currently are. Quit with the revisionist history...

[SouthMsDawg]

Unlike Ray, Cohen proved he could beat the elite teams in our conference. LSU, Florida, South Carolina

When Ray beats somebody not named Auburn, Ole Miss, Georgia, or South Carolina let me know.

[dawgs]

there's also a damn good argument about it being easier to turn around basketball than baseball just due to sheer numbers and being able to put your best player in a position to make the most impact. you can't bat your best player in baseball more than once every 9 ABs and you can't start your best SP more than every 5th day (once a week in college) and you can't pitch your best RP more than 1-2 innings a game, and even then, he'll probably need a few games off here and there. so to me, building a baseball team is going to be a longer, more arduous process than building a basketball team.

[Johnson85]

you have to see at least why some fans are questioning ray. you have to understand that right? i mean, even his most ardent supporters surely can understand why some people are getting fed up already and not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, right?

I don't understand why people are getting fed up, I can sort of understand why people aren't giving him the benefit of the doubt. Ray inherited a shitty situation. He was either going to have to be god's gift to coaching or get really lucky in recruiting for us to be good this year. He was neither. I'd be much happier if he were, but I'm not fed up with him.

As far as not giving him the benefit of the doubt, chances are, Ray's not going to be particularly successful, because most SEC basketball hires are not going to be particularly successful. Not sure why that is, but basically the only recent good hires have been Calipari, I guess Pearl if you count him, and Donovan if you consider him recent.

But basically the only thing that Ray has shown to concern me is not getting better, immediate help. If he was a coach that had been recruiting in this area for several years, I'd be very bothered by this. But since he hasn't, I don't think we can know anything yet. I think maybe that supports an argument that we made a mistake hiring a coach without any existing recruiting ins in our area, but I don't think we'll know whether he can cut it as a recruiter for another couple of years.

[Johnson85]

there's also a damn good argument about it being easier to turn around basketball than baseball just due to sheer numbers and being able to put your best player in a position to make the most impact. you can't bat your best player in baseball more than once every 9 ABs and you can't start your best SP more than every 5th day (once a week in college) and you can't pitch your best RP more than 1-2 innings a game, and even then, he'll probably need a few games off here and there. so to me, building a baseball team is going to be a longer, more arduous process than building a basketball team.

If you can get blue chip talent, yes. If you are not and you are starting from scratch, basketball is more like baseball. It takes a few years to bring in enough talent to fill out a team and to give them enough experience to be competitive.

[Coach34]

Any total rebuild is going to take awhile- regardless of sport.

Baseball was a total rebuild- and it took until the 3rd season to start seeing results
Basketball has been a total rebuild- as only 1 player has remained from Stands team.

Football was not a total rebuild. Croom left Mullen some real talent in certain areas- but holes in others. Plus Mullen and his crew walked into a damn good recruiting class that they solidified when hired. Crooms problem were more about coaching and failure to recruit at the QB and WR positions.

Fans dont have patience- they see immediate results in different situations and expect theirs to be the same way. All rebuilds are not the same

[Raytoraid83]

And dont give me the Hood shit- he was already out there door and had feelers out for transferring since February.

We'll learn what Ray is about the next 2 seasons

Overlooked this, no one really knows the Hood story but a lot of people did know as soon as Stansbury was gone the wrong hire was gonna make it real hard for him to stay. I don't blame him for leaving a program with an unknown coach and one quoted as saying "We want Hood to command double teams." What potential lottery pick wants to hear they are gonna basically be a decoy for the next year?

[Johnson85]

...one quoted as saying "We want Hood to command double teams." What potential lottery pick wants to hear they are gonna basically be a decoy for the next year?

That is not what it means to 'command double teams.' If you are commanding double teams, the offense is generally going to be run through you.

[Dawg61]

Hood was never coming back. He's at DUKE. I will not be surprised one bit when he gets drafted he buys his momma a house and never steps foot back in Mississippi again.

[tcdog70]

What do you expect when you hire some Coach, that his claim to fame, was he was an asst Coach on a shitty Clemson team that went something like 22-29 in His years there. Coach and His apostles can keep bashing Stansbury and pumping up Ray, but when the Hump is empty and the Losses keep piling Up, Ray will go down like the Titanic.

[Goat Holder]

they see you rollin'.......you hatin'.........

[tcdog70]

they see you rollin'.......you hatin'.........

Hatin',taking that ass whipping every game .

[smootness]

What do you expect when you hire some Coach, that his claim to fame, was he was an asst Coach on a shitty Clemson team that went something like 22-29 in His years there. Coach and His apostles can keep bashing Stansbury and pumping up Ray, but when the Hump is empty and the Losses keep piling Up, Ray will go down like the Titanic.

It's posts like this that make it impossible for me to take you seriously. You're being no fairer to Ray than Coach is to Stans.

[tcdog70]

It's posts like this that make it impossible for me to take you seriously. You're being no fairer to Ray than Coach is to Stans.

What did I say that you disagree with?

[BiscuitEater]

I do like new S&C work we put in

Ndoye came in at 6-11 216 and really, really needed some S&C work; Daniels joined at 6-8, 205 and needed some bulk.

What have they done? How have they improved?

We need some work; you may some improvement in the O but I see a team that can't get position, set a screen or block out on O or D. The only reason we get a few O rebounds is that we get more chances at 'misses' than most teams.

[Coach34]

Ndoye came in at 6-11 216 and really, really needed some S&C work; Daniels joined at 6-8, 205 and needed some bulk.

What have they done? How have they improved?

We need some work; you may some improvement in the O but I see a team that can't get position, set a screen or block out on O or D. The only reason we get a few O rebounds is that we get more chances at 'misses' than most teams.

FTF has gained nearly 20 lbs since arriving on campus. Ware has lost at least 25 pounds...I'm sure N'Doye and Daniels are getting what they need as well. S&C is no longer a players decision as it was under Stands- but a requirement. No more days of players like Marckell Patterson, Renardo Sidney, or Rayvern Johnson telling the Strength coach he isnt working out. Our HC wouldnt say "get your fatass back in that weightroom and do what he tells you" like he should have done with Sidney. He instead begged him to do P90X with him to get him to do something. You wont be seeing that shit ever again.

[tcdog70]

FTF has gained nearly 20 lbs since arriving on campus. Ware has lost at least 25 pounds...I'm sure N'Doye and Daniels are getting what they need as well. S&C is no longer a players decision as it was under Stands- but a requirement. No more days of players like Marckell Patterson, Renardo Sidney, or Rayvern Johnson telling the Strength coach he isnt working out. Our HC wouldnt say "get your fatass back in that weightroom and do what he tells you" like he should have done with Sidney. He instead begged him to do P90X with him to get him to do something. You wont be seeing that shit ever again.

Fred gained twenty pounds and lost His jump-shot. please go get another Patterson and Ravern, they could not pump iron but they could shoot that ****ing basketball

[Dawg61]

Fred gained twenty pounds and lost His jump-shot. please go get another Patterson and Ravern, they could not pump iron but they could shoot that ****ing basketball

Not sure why but Ray hasn't extended an offer to Troutman yet. Even after his visit. Are we in play for some other shooters?

[dawgs]

i never remember patterson being an character problem and he was a key player on stans' 2nd best team (01-02).

[tcdog70]

Not sure why but Ray hasn't extended an offer to Troutman yet. Even after his visit. Are we in play for some other shooters?

New Hampshire might look better to HIm****

[Coach34]

i never remember patterson being an character problem and he was a key player on stans' 2nd best team (01-02).

didnt say he was a character problem- but he never wanted to work out. Brought Mommy and Daddy in for a big meeting between them, Stands, and SC. Stands backed family.

[Coach34]

Not sure why but Ray hasn't extended an offer to Troutman yet. Even after his visit. Are we in play for some other shooters?

Yes- we are not just recruiting one player throughout the entire country

[Dawg61]

Yes- we are not just recruiting one player throughout the entire country

Good, why is it harder than my dick with Daddario to find anything out about bball recruiting?

[engie]

Fred gained twenty pounds and lost His jump-shot.
This is why it is absolutely impossible to take anything you say seriously.

Fred Thomas
2012: FG%-.328, 3P%-.238
2013: FG%-.337, 3P%-.292

Keep fighting the good fight though**

[Coach34]

This is why it is absolutely impossible to take anything you say seriously.

Fred Thomas
2012: FG%-.328, 3P%-.238
2013: FG%-.337, 3P%-.292

Keep fighting the good fight though**

ouch

[Johnson85]

Fred gained twenty pounds and lost His jump-shot. please go get another Patterson and Ravern, they could not pump iron but they could shoot that ****ing basketball

17 that. Patterson I'll take. I don't remember him being allergic to defense or the team being better when he was on the bench.

[tcdog70]

This is why it is absolutely impossible to take anything you say seriously.

Fred Thomas
2012: FG%-.328, 3P%-.238
2013: FG%-.337, 3P%-.292

Keep fighting the good fight though**

did you show Ray your stats, Maybe he will let Him Play again. And you posted those shitty numbers to prove he had a jumpshot?. You still think we going to win 6-7 SEC games?

[MabenMaroon]

Go look at our actual signees/commitments and their offer lists and get back to me. Not nearly as bad as the anti-Ray crowd would have people believe. But they weren't 5*s!!

How many 5*s does our boy Marshall have over at Wichita St right now? Classes on campus(ranking):
2013 - a 2* and a NR
2012 - a 3* and one 4*
2011 - 4 NRs and a 2*
2010 - none
2009 - 2 2*

In other words -- between 1 and 3 fewer than we currently have at MSU. Undefeated and off a Final 4.

Excellent post:
I am to lazy to do it myself, but I bet there are at least a dozen other programs that could be used as a similar examples of success with low* or NR players in the past 10/15 years. Personally, I believe Coach ray has done a pretty decent job of recruiting and we will begin to see the fruits of that next year.

[tcdog70]

ouch

didn't hurt, sounded kinda dumb. when are you and Engie gonna have your Rick Ray circle Jerk?. Using less than 30% shooting as justification of a jump shot. And while ya'll are throwing up numbers why don't you show made shots vs attempts. A brick is a brick is a brick.

[Coach34]

didn't hurt, sounded kinda dumb. when are you and Engie gonna have your Rick Ray circle Jerk?. Using less than 30% shooting as justification of a jump shot. And while ya'll are throwing up numbers why don't you show made shots vs attempts. A brick is a brick is a brick.

holy shit....you were totally and completely wrong. Just stop while you are behind. You're like a snowman describing a sunburn

[MadDawg]

holy shit....you were totally and completely wrong. Just stop while you are behind. You're like a snowman describing a sunburn


Yes tcdog, you were "totally and completely wrong". His shooting % has increased almost a whole percentage point. From 32.8% to 33.7%. If you can't see the improvement, you are blind.

And just to make sure, that is what you guys were arguing, right? Not that 33.7% shooting percentage is good or anything, right?

[engie]

Yes tcdog, you were "totally and completely wrong". His shooting % has increased almost a whole percentage point. From 32.8% to 33.7%. If you can't see the improvement, you are blind.

And just to make sure, that is what you guys were arguing, right? Not that 33.7% shooting percentage is good or anything, right?

Thanks for interjecting this dumbassery in support of other dumbassery.

Allow me to refresh you on what was actually said -- instead of you making up bullshit "you think we thought".

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20140226-6uq8-31kb.jpg

Feel free to show where we said "Fred shot the ball well this year" or "if you can't see improvement in him, you are blind". No. Your boy made the dumb ass statement about Fred's "regression" which was ACTUALLY improvement -- and got called on it. No agenda there** Nothing more or less. Continue spinning away though.

[SouthMsDawg]

What do you expect when you hire some Coach, that his claim to fame, was he was an asst Coach on a shitty Clemson team that went something like 22-29 in His years there. Coach and His apostles can keep bashing Stansbury and pumping up Ray, but when the Hump is empty and the Losses keep piling Up, Ray will go down like the Titanic.

Well said

[SouthMsDawg]

Fred gained twenty pounds and lost His jump-shot. please go get another Patterson and Ravern, they could not pump iron but they could shoot that ****ing basketball

PREACH!

I think me and tcdog70 see eye to eye on our basketball situation

[SouthMsDawg]

Yes- we are not just recruiting one player throughout the entire country

Sure as hell seems that way. Troutman is the ONLY player that has been brought in or even talked about by Paul Jones or any of the other recruiting sites.

[SouthMsDawg]

This is why it is absolutely impossible to take anything you say seriously.

Fred Thomas
2012: FG%-.328, 3P%-.238
2013: FG%-.337, 3P%-.292

Keep fighting the good fight though**

Yet he is scoring less this year for us. Also he didn't even play a minute vs Arkansas last game because of "Matchup Problems"

[whosyourdawgy]

I think what Engie was really trying to say with those stats is that FTF didn't lose his jump shot. He NEVER had one to begin with and hasn't found it yet. Just poking the fire here. Enjoying the read.

[Coach34]

PREACH!

I think me and tcdog70 see eye to eye on our basketball situation

Then that tells me Ray is absolutely the right guy for the job

[MadDawg]

Thanks for interjecting this dumbassery in support of other dumbassery.

Allow me to refresh you on what was actually said -- instead of you making up bullshit "you think we thought".

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20140226-6uq8-31kb.jpg

Feel free to show where we said "Fred shot the ball well this year" or "if you can't see improvement in him, you are blind". No. Your boy made the dumb ass statement about Fred's "regression" which was ACTUALLY improvement -- and got called on it. No agenda there** Nothing more or less. Continue spinning away though.

Goodness, you are so eat up with your agenda you can't even take a little light ribbing. You and coach just blasted a guy for claiming a player, who increased his shooting percentage almost a whole percent, from a dismal 32.8% to a dismal 33.7%, had "lost" his shot. Obviously, anyone can see he wasn't technically correct. And everyone can also see how stupid you look trotting out such abysmal records to prove you are right, albeit just barely.

The good folks that read the board can decide who is spinning on this one. And who is laughing at who.

[SouthMsDawg]

Then that tells me Ray is absolutely the right guy for the job

AbsoFREAKINGlutely With his one road win in 2 years 1-18 on the road to go along with a 7-25 SEC record RICK RAY IS AWESOME!

We have won 13 games this year 7 of which against teams with an RPI of 250 or better and who haven't won 10 games this year. Another loss is a home loss to a TCU team who is 0-15 in the Big12. But yeah we are improving our shooting from 36 to 37%

[engie]

Goodness, you are so eat up with your agenda you can't even take a little light ribbing. You and coach just blasted a guy for claiming a player, who increased his shooting percentage almost a whole percent, from a dismal 32.8% to a dismal 33.7%, had "lost" his shot. Obviously, anyone can see he wasn't technically correct. And everyone can also see how stupid you look trotting out such abysmal records to prove you are right, albeit just barely.

The good folks that read the board can decide who is spinning on this one. And who is laughing at who.

K.

[TexasDawg]

I'm beginning to feel like there are split feelings about Rick Ray among the Bulldog faithful

[Coach34]

AbsoFREAKINGlutely With his one road win in 2 years 1-18 on the road to go along with a 7-25 SEC record RICK RAY IS AWESOME!

We have won 13 games this year 7 of which against teams with an RPI of 250 or better and who haven't won 10 games this year. Another loss is a home loss to a TCU team who is 0-15 in the Big12. But yeah we are improving our shooting from 36 to 37%

Do you feel Rick Ray is getting outcoached- or is he being out-talented???? I'll hang up and listen

[Johnson85]

Goodness, you are so eat up with your agenda you can't even take a little light ribbing. You and coach just blasted a guy for claiming a player, who increased his shooting percentage almost a whole percent, from a dismal 32.8% to a dismal 33.7%, had "lost" his shot. Obviously, anyone can see he wasn't technically correct. And everyone can also see how stupid you look trotting out such abysmal records to prove you are right, albeit just barely.

The good folks that read the board can decide who is spinning on this one. And who is laughing at who.

Well that guy appeared to be claiming that it was a bad thing that FTF gained 20 pounds because it resulted in him losing his jump shot. Thinking that having a good S&C program is inconsistent with having good shooting should be called out. It's just not true and gaining twenty pounds is not what's keeping FTF from being able to shoot.

[SouthMsDawg]

Do you feel Rick Ray is getting outcoached- or is he being out-talented???? I'll hang up and listen

Some games outtalented such as the obvious Kentucky, Florida, etc...

But Ray has been outcoached by Trent Johnson's abomination of a TCU team, as well as being out coached by Auburn, Utah State, etc... We are lucky we didn't lose to Southeastern Louisiana and Loyola and even Jackson State. JSU outcoached Ray as did Southeastern and don't give me the have as much talent as we do argument.

[MadDawg]

Well that guy appeared to be claiming that it was a bad thing that FTF gained 20 pounds because it resulted in him losing his jump shot. Thinking that having a good S&C program is inconsistent with having good shooting should be called out. It's just not true and gaining twenty pounds is not what's keeping FTF from being able to shoot.

See I didn't read it that way. Coach was arguing that our S&C program was good because Fred had gained 20 pounds. tcdog appeared to me to be making the point that gaining 20 lbs hasn't made Fred any better. And I know he actually claimed he was worse, which is technically not true.

I think the better question might be why is Fred shooting so bad in college when he averaged over 50% in high school.

[Goat from MSU]

I said it yesterday ,whether I like it not Ray needs a 3rd season with a full roster to show what he got .The fan base is so split on him that in the end could cost him his job. Basketball use to make a little money but not now We got a game tonight but we are still fighting over this like we got a say so in the matter ,not one thread on the game ,that is sick.

[Raytoraid83]

Some games outtalented such as the obvious Kentucky, Florida, etc...

But Ray has been outcoached by Trent Johnson's abomination of a TCU team, as well as being out coached by Auburn, Utah State, etc... We are lucky we didn't lose to Southeastern Louisiana and Loyola and even Jackson State. JSU outcoached Ray as did Southeastern and don't give me the have as much talent as we do argument.

I'd add Vandy to the outcoached list too. They have 7 scholarship players. Also note to add, TCU best player didn't even play against us.

[engie]

AbsoFREAKINGlutely With 11-32 on the road to go along with a 15-44 SEC record JOHN COHEN IS AWESOME!

We have won 23 games this year 8 of which against teams with an RPI of 150 or worse. Another loss is a loss to a #253 team at a Neutral Site and a #203 team at a Neutral Site. But yeah we are improving our pitching a 6.57ERA to 6.87ERA

Typical Bundy post - May 2010

[Coach34]

Some games outtalented such as the obvious Kentucky, Florida, etc...

But Ray has been outcoached by Trent Johnson's abomination of a TCU team, as well as being out coached by Auburn, Utah State, etc... We are lucky we didn't lose to Southeastern Louisiana and Loyola and even Jackson State. JSU outcoached Ray as did Southeastern and don't give me the have as much talent as we do argument.

Bundy....Bundy....you just never learn

[Johnson85]

See I didn't read it that way. Coach was arguing that our S&C program was good because Fred had gained 20 pounds. tcdog appeared to me to be making the point that gaining 20 lbs hasn't made Fred any better. And I know he actually claimed he was worse, which is technically not true.

I think the better question might be why is Fred shooting so bad in college when he averaged over 50% in high school.

Well gaining 20 lbs usually won't make anybody a better shooter unless they were particularly weak to begin with, but it usually does help with defense and rebounding. I don't see any point in criticizing the things we are doing right (or at least better) simply because we suck at shooting. There is a point at where too much weight gain can limit your mobility, but we haven't been anywhere near that problem for a long time.

[engie]

Some games outtalented such as the obvious LSU, South Carolina, Florida, Arkansas etc...

But Cohen has been outcoached by the abomination of a JSU team, as well as being out coached by Ole Miss, Auburn, Alabama, etc... We are lucky we didn't lose to SEMOSt and Western Ky and even Northwestern St. JSU outcoached Cohen as did SoutheasternLA and don't give me the have as much talent as we do argument...

Bundy's next post - May 2010

[Coach34]

See I didn't read it that way. Coach was arguing that our S&C program was good because Fred had gained 20 pounds. tcdog appeared to me to be making the point that gaining 20 lbs hasn't made Fred any better. And I know he actually claimed he was worse, which is technically not true.

I think the better question might be why is Fred shooting so bad in college when he averaged over 50% in high school.


of course you didnt. They guy was completely wrong and everybody can see it.

[Coach34]

Some games outtalented such as the obvious LSU, South Carolina, Florida, Arkansas etc...

But Cohen has been outcoached by the abomination of a JSU team, as well as being out coached by Ole Miss, Auburn, Alabama, etc... We are lucky we didn't lose to SEMOSt and Western Ky and even Northwestern St. JSU outcoached Cohen as did SoutheasternLA and don't give me the have as much talent as we do argument...




Bundy's next post - May 2010


wow- it's like he has a template for these

[Coach34]

Damn Engie- that is going to be the first ever "Elitedawgs Remembers" post

[engie]

And to be clear -- I'm paraphrasing -- those aren't his actual posts from the time period... But they were similar in nature...

[Coach34]

Ahhhhh


Let's also add that one of the knocks on Cohen also was that he wasn't bringing in high-rated recruiting classes

[engie]

Ahhhhh


Let's also add that one of the knocks on Cohen also was that he wasn't bringing in high-rated recruiting classes

And didn't know what he was doing bringing in all the JUCOs on the front end...

[Raytoraid83]

Ahhhhh


Let's also add that one of the knocks on Cohen also was that he wasn't bringing in high-rated recruiting classes

Book your tickets for the ncaa tournament championship game two years from now!!

[drunkernhelldawg]

Amazing thread. Coach Ray is our coach. He's not perfect. He's getting better. If he stays up and is able to keep the team up through all this negativity, he will have accomplished something extraordinary.

I once posted that games are seldom won or lost on the free throw line, but this team has already proven me wrong two or three times this season. 4-12 at the half killed up. But look at it from the shooters' point of view; those empty seats are distracting, and that apathy is infetuous.

[MadDawg]

Damn Engie- that is going to be the first ever "Elitedawgs Remembers" post

I think you are on to something here, coach. I think all "Elitedawgs Remembers" posts should be ones made up by engie. Fits the board perfectly.

[Dawg61]

Adding worth to Rick Ray by using John Cohen's national championship appearance is pathetic. Please stop.

[mic]

If you listen real close you can almost hear the "Rocky Top" song being sung today by some posters..

[Raytoraid83]

Adding worth to Rick Ray by using John Cohen's national championship appearance is pathetic. Please stop.

Come on being the head coach on a SEC championship team is just as good as being an assistant coach on a 16-15 Clemson team!

[drunkernhelldawg]

If you listen real close you can almost hear the "Rocky Top" song being sung today by some posters..

I hope to hell that's not true, but if it is, I wish those doing it only the worst.

Bottom line: You're a State fan or you're not at State fan. Pulling against State is not a forgivable offense.

[dawgs]

If you listen real close you can almost hear the "Rocky Top" song being sung today by some posters..

questioning whether ray is or is not the man to lead us back to relevance does not mean people are actively cheering against him. those are hugely different stances. i don't think anyone has a personal agenda against rick ray as a person to the point they want him to fail. pretty much everyone wants him to succeed, some people just question whether he's the man to succeed.

[601Dawg]

No different than those who cheered openly against Stan's for years even when we were winning consistently Bc he couldn't get to the sweet 16. Now we are to the point our expectations are so low we are hoping for a winning season with Ray which shouldn't be his expectations in year 3

[dawgs]

No different than those who cheered openly against Stan's for years even when we were winning consistently Bc he couldn't get to the sweet 16. Now we are to the point our expectations are so low we are hoping for a winning season with Ray which shouldn't be his expectations in year 3

but if stans was a better offensive X's and O's coach and in game manager, wouldn't it stand to reasons that we would have likely made at least 1 sweet 16 run?

i think all of us would prefer for our coaches to win and be great coaches, but acknowledging and bitching about their shortcomings doesn't mean you want them to fail, it means you recognize their shortcomings as a coach and it frustrates you when they can't/won't/don't correct it.

[drunkernhelldawg]

No different than those who cheered openly against Stan's for years even when we were winning consistently Bc he couldn't get to the sweet 16. Now we are to the point our expectations are so low we are hoping for a winning season with Ray which shouldn't be his expectations in year 3

Maybe some truth here but so what? Unless two wrongs are adding up to right these days.

[tcdog70]

holy shit....you were totally and completely wrong. Just stop while you are behind. You're like a snowman describing a sunburn
Come on Frick and frack, Fred was a good shooter in High School, since he has been at State he has lost His confidence and His jump shot. You still haven't shown shots made vs shots taken. One per cent age point is your argument for this shooting improvement you claim. Plus the year ain't over yet, if the trend continues he will get worse , that is if Ray lets him play again. Oh wait, he benched Him all the while whining that he needed bodies. Gaining 20 lbs, that is your shining endorsement for Rick Ray, I want some players that can shoot ,not some graduates from a Charles Atlas course. **** twenty pounds I would rather he could improve his free throw shooting.put down the dumbells and go practice shooting.

[tcdog70]

Yet he is scoring less this year for us. Also he didn't even play a minute vs Arkansas last game because of "Matchup Problems"

When Ray was "Miked Up" he tells Johnie Johnson " I Just need bodies Man, I ain't got any bodies" then He doesn't play the players he has.

[tcdog70]

If you listen real close you can almost hear the "Rocky Top" song being sung today by some posters..

That's the best you can do. Why even post.

[Coach34]

When Ray was "Miked Up" he tells Johnie Johnson " I Just need bodies Man, I ain't got any bodies" then He doesn't play the players he has.

discipline is tough mane...been awhile since we had it at State

[Coach34]

Come on Frick and frack, Fred was a good shooter in High School, since he has been at State he has lost His confidence and His jump shot. You still haven't shown shots made vs shots taken. One per cent age point is your argument for this shooting improvement you claim. Plus the year ain't over yet, if the trend continues he will get worse , that is if Ray lets him play again. Oh wait, he benched Him all the while whining that he needed bodies. Gaining 20 lbs, that is your shining endorsement for Rick Ray, I want some players that can shoot ,not some graduates from a Charles Atlas course. **** twenty pounds I would rather he could improve his free throw shooting.put down the dumbells and go practice shooting.

I was a good shooter in HS also, but when I was being guarded by guys like Eric Moulds and Cameron Burns- I didnt shoot it as well. Wonder why that was?

You literally get more dumb with each post

[tcdog70]

I was a good shooter in HS also, but when I was being guarded by guys like Eric Moulds and Cameron Burns- I didnt shoot it as well. Wonder why that was?

You literally get more dumb with each post

Self gratification. Are you really putting yourself in the post as a good shooter. It's bad enough you call yourself the ****ing pied piper. And stupid there is no such thing as more dumb. Where did you go to school Holmes Jr. The word is dumber, and I have long way to go to get as dumb as you.