Johnny Football 4.56 40 time $$$

[fishwater99]

He just got paid.

[Harrydawg]

I am not surprised at all and Odell Beckham just posted a couple of 4.3........dayum

[Dawg61]

Ha was just about to post 4.31 for Odell Beckham Jr. Blake Bortles ran a 4.81. JFF should be the most obvious #1 pick the Texans could ask for. Will they still **** it up and not take him?

[msstate7]

Ha was just about to post 4.31 for Odell Beckham Jr. Blake Bortles ran a 4.81. JFF should be the most obvious #1 pick the Texans could ask for. Will they still **** it up and not take him?

I remember when everyone said texans should draft Vince young #1 in '06. I see some similarities between young and Manziel. BTW RG3 ran a 4.41

[ShotgunDawg]

I remember when everyone said texans should draft Vince young #1 in '06. I see some similarities between young and Manziel. BTW RG3 ran a 4.41

Not even close. Manziel's instincts and vision are on a completely different level than Young.

[msstate7]

Not even close. Manziel's instincts and vision are on a completely different level than Young.

Young against USC was the greatest college performance I've ever seen. Young was one hell of a college qb and his arm is much stronger than Manziel.

I'm not saying Manziel won't be good, but to me he's a Russell Wilson type with better running ability and a weaker, less accurate arm.

No way I'd take Manziel #1. Lsu shut him down completely twice. Whatever lsu did nfl defenses will do it even better.

[MetEdDawg]

Young against USC was the greatest college performance I've ever seen. Young was one hell of a college qb and his arm is much stronger than Manziel.

I'm not saying Manziel won't be good, but to me he's a Russell Wilson type with better running ability and a weaker, less accurate arm.

No way I'd take Manziel #1. Lsu shut him down completely twice. Whatever lsu did nfl defenses will do it even better.

Most defensive players in the NFL for a reason. Those guys know how to get it done. Unless Johnny Football learns how to protect himself, he will get broken in half in the NFL. That 4.56 speed will only be good for a little bit at his size. Cam ran a 4.59 at the combine but at his size he can get away with a few hits in the NFL. Manziel won't be able to do that.

Forgot who it was that I heard talk about this yesterday, but whoever it was said something that was very true. You don't see old running QBs in the NFL. After a while, the game and the hits they take just take a toll on QBs to the point where they can't do their job properly. If you are a franchise that's looking for a franchise QB in this draft, is Manziel really the guy? What happens in 5-7 years when running may no longer be a viable option for him? That's the entire reason his stock is so high. His ability to make THAT play where he makes 3 or 4 guys miss after running around for 50 yards, then either finding a guy making a catch down field in double coverage or him running for 20 yards. That's not going to happen in the NFL for an extended period of time.

The question you have to ask for Manziel is whether or not his arm is elite enough or has the growth potential to be able to sustain an NFL career 75-80% from the pocket once his running ability isn't as explosive as it is now. I just don't think it is and that's why I think Broyles has the best opportunity at a long term career in the NFL from the QBs in this draft.

[scottycameron]

I remember when everyone said texans should draft Vince young #1 in '06. I see some similarities between young and Manziel. BTW RG3 ran a 4.41

JF is intelligent, for an athlete. Just the opposite of VY. That usually doesn't matter but it does make a difference in the QB position. On another note, I've never heard of a forty time mattering for QB's anyway.

[Coach34]

Ha was just about to post 4.31 for Odell Beckham Jr. Blake Bortles ran a 4.81. JFF should be the most obvious #1 pick the Texans could ask for. Will they still **** it up and not take him?

I dont see the Texans taking Manziel...They need to draft Clowney and trade for Cousins from Washington

[HereComesTheSpiral]

I dont see the Texans taking Manziel...They need to draft Clowney and trade for Cousins from Washington

I was high on clowney, but im starting to think take matthews or that tackle from Michigan. Scouting report on clowney says that he will pretty much have to have a baby sitter his first few years. Of course, JJ would keep his ass in line.

[Political Hack]

Bortles > Manziel and I don't think it's close. Playground football hasn't worked for Vick, Young, RG3, and a lot more. And the teams that do rely on QBs that run the ball some all have great defenses (Seattle, SF, Carolina). Texans don't have that.

If they pick JFF they'll sell a lot of jersies and make a lot of money, but I don't think they'll win many games. Before too long you'll have a bratty kid pointing fingers back at the organization because they're losing while assuming no responsibility for being the face of the franchise. With Bortles, you get the opposite.

if I were the Texans GM I would trade down a few spots, take Bortles and pick up a 3rd solid player with my additional second round pick. They could get Bortles, Gabe Jackson, and a big WR to help and immediately hVe a legit offense to go along with JJ Watts. Plus, they can leverage some offensive talent now to pick up a few more defensive players since they've just found 3 new starters.

[bulldawg28]

I dont see the Texans taking Manziel...They need to draft Clowney and trade for Cousins from Washington


This would be one of the best moves they could make.

[Coach34]

I was high on clowney, but im starting to think take matthews or that tackle from Michigan. Scouting report on clowney says that he will pretty much have to have a baby sitter his first few years. Of course, JJ would keep his ass in line.

Clowney is a little bit of a risk also- but I'm willing to take that risk for a guy that has HOF talent. Manziel isnt worth that risk. Hell, I'd draft Manziel's WR at A&M before I drafted Johnny. That kid is going to be a beast

Cleveland needs Manziel- they have some weapons and need someone that is a draw. Until Manziel gets hurt- he could help Cleveland sell tickets and jerseys for them.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

Clowney is a little bit of a risk also- but I'm willing to take that risk for a guy that has HOF talent. Manziel isnt worth that risk. Hell, I'd draft Manziel's WR at A&M before I drafted Johnny. That kid is going to be a beast

Cleveland needs Manziel- they have some weapons and need someone that is a draw. Until Manziel gets hurt- he could help Cleveland sell tickets and jerseys for them.

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/browns-qbs.jpg

Probably just add another name to their current ones.

[smootness]

Young against USC was the greatest college performance I've ever seen. Young was one hell of a college qb and his arm is much stronger than Manziel.

I'm not saying Manziel won't be good, but to me he's a Russell Wilson type with better running ability and a weaker, less accurate arm.

No way I'd take Manziel #1. Lsu shut him down completely twice. Whatever lsu did nfl defenses will do it even better.

I agree with your overall point, but Wilson ran a 4.55. Manziel is a little more elusive than Wilson, but Wilson is incredibly hard to contain when he decides to run.

It's funny to me to see people use Wilson now and say, 'Russell Wilson has been successful at that size,' in defense of Manziel, as though Wilson's size is the reason he's successful.

I do agree Manziel is a little more elusive than Wilson. But Wilson has a far stronger arm, a more accurate arm, a much higher release point on his throws (which is definitely important for someone of that stature), much better throwing mechanics, better poise in the pocket, better decision-making, off-the-charts intelligence, and off-the-charts intangibles/leadership ability.

Wilson is essentially the perfect QB outside of his size. Manziel has a good many flaws, and he's also short.

[Percho]

Most defensive players in the NFL for a reason. Those guys know how to get it done. Unless Johnny Football learns how to protect himself, he will get broken in half in the NFL. That 4.56 speed will only be good for a little bit at his size. Cam ran a 4.59 at the combine but at his size he can get away with a few hits in the NFL. Manziel won't be able to do that.

Forgot who it was that I heard talk about this yesterday, but whoever it was said something that was very true. You don't see old running QBs in the NFL. After a while, the game and the hits they take just take a toll on QBs to the point where they can't do their job properly. If you are a franchise that's looking for a franchise QB in this draft, is Manziel really the guy? What happens in 5-7 years when running may no longer be a viable option for him? That's the entire reason his stock is so high. His ability to make THAT play where he makes 3 or 4 guys miss after running around for 50 yards, then either finding a guy making a catch down field in double coverage or him running for 20 yards. That's not going to happen in the NFL for an extended period of time.

The question you have to ask for Manziel is whether or not his arm is elite enough or has the growth potential to be able to sustain an NFL career 75-80% from the pocket once his running ability isn't as explosive as it is now. I just don't think it is and that's why I think Broyles has the best opportunity at a long term career in the NFL from the QBs in this draft.

JF needs to take notes of Fran Tarkenton. Run around until you find someone or just throw it away and he can play forever.

[ckDOG]

I dont see the Texans taking Manziel...They need to draft Clowney and trade for Cousins from Washington

O'Brien doesn't strike me as a guy that wants a QB of Manziel's skill set. Clowney is a freak of nature and is worth the risk. I'd be okay with drafting clowney and making something happen with QB via trade. May not have to score many points with Watt and Clowney off the edges is a pass-centered football league.

[MetEdDawg]

O'Brien doesn't strike me as a guy that wants a QB of Manziel's skill set. Clowney is a freak of nature and is worth the risk. I'd be okay with drafting clowney and making something happen with QB via trade. May not have to score many points with Watt and Clowney off the edges is a pass-centered football league.

The Texans need help on both sides which is why I think they eventually trade out once or maybe even twice to get what they want. They gave up 29 TDs last year (Tied for 21st with 6 other teams). They were dead last in interceptions with 7. That's horrible. They were tied for 29th in sacks with 32. They were 23rd in rushing yards allowed.

Offensively, they were tied for 25th in total TDs, tied for 17th in sacks allowed (which is not terrible but needs to be fixed). Point is that they have needs on both sides of the ball and they need to find out whether or not it's possible for them to get the QB they need AND get another game changer on defense in the first round. You can't be last in interceptions and tied for 29th in sacks and not address the defensive side of the ball early in the draft. But I think they could get Clowney outside the first two picks so if they could do that they should as long as they can still get what they need.

[smootness]

Was this the unofficial time? Cause I'm seeing 4.68, which is actually going to hurt him.

[Maroons]

I'll be the one to nitpick - it was officially 4.68. Seems really slow to me based on watching his on-field quickness.

On the flipside, he is much more accurate than he gets credit for. Many average fans see all the plays with his feet and totally miss some spectacular throws. But his decision making is not good sometimes.

[smootness]

I'll be the one to nitpick - it was officially 4.68. Seems really slow to me based on watching his on-field quickness.

On the flipside, he is much more accurate than he gets credit for. Many average fans see all the plays with his feet and totally miss some spectacular throws. But his decision making is not good sometimes.

He has good touch on the throws about 20-40 yards, but he lacks the kind of zip you generally need to have to be successful in the NFL. Anything can happen; he could have a ton of success, but to do it, he'll have to be the guy to finally revolutionize the QB position in the NFL. He's just not ever going to be a guy who sits in the pocket and beats you.

[Dawg61]

A punter benched more than Clowney. I'm not picking Clowney #1. At least Manziel is guaranteed to make the Texans truck loads of cash and steal some headlines from the Cowboys in their own state.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-02-23/jadeveon-clowney-bench-press-nfl-scouting-combine-21-reps-225-pounds-defensive-linemen-40

[justwin]

This is my concern w dak. He missed all spring and several games in his first real year of playing.

[QUOTE=Political Hack;139355]Bortles > Manziel and I don't think it's close. Playground football hasn't worked for Vick, Young, RG3, and a lot more.

[whosyourdawgy]

Colin Cowherd is dogging the shit out of Manziel saying he ran a 4.7 that Andrew Luck ran faster jumped higher etc. so did Johnyy run a 4.7 or 4.56?

[smootness]

This is my concern w dak. He missed all spring and several games in his first real year of playing.

Well, but playground football worked fantastically for Vick, Young, RG3, Manziel, etc. in college. So I'm not worried about Dak.

[smootness]

Colin Cowherd is dogging the shit out of Manziel saying he ran a 4.7 that Andrew Luck ran faster jumped higher etc. so did Johnyy run a 4.7 or 4.56?

He ran a 4.68. Anyone who follows the combine knows unofficial times can be way off; so he ran a 4.56 unofficially but it was updated to 4.68.

And yes, Luck did do better in all of the drills that are supposed to determine athleticism.

[whosyourdawgy]

Damn. Thought he woulda been faster than that. So this thread goes from he made him some money with the 4.56 to he may have cost him some with a 4.68.

[Coach34]

There is straight speed and there is quickness. Manziel has quickness. Luck cant make people miss the way Johnny does.

[whosyourdawgy]

I agree 100 percent coach. Cowherd was saying NFL teams should trade a 2nd round pick w the Patriots for Mallet instead of taking Manziel. How that guy makes millions giving his sometimes ridiculous opinions is beyond me.

[smootness]

There is straight speed and there is quickness. Manziel has quickness. Luck cant make people miss the way Johnny does.

I fully agree with that. The problem is, athleticism isn't close to Luck's best asset. I think this does mean that Manziel won't be able to just run past teams. He's going to have to become someone who uses his quickness to buy time to be a pocket passer, and I don't think he has the arm or intelligence to do that.

[msstate7]

I fully agree with that. The problem is, athleticism isn't close to Luck's best asset. I think this does mean that Manziel won't be able to just run past teams. He's going to have to become someone who uses his quickness to buy time to be a pocket passer, and I don't think he has the arm or intelligence to do that.

I'm with you

[Coach34]

I wouldnt draft Manziel because of durability. They will catch him eventually. But until they do- I think he will be better than RG3

[msstate7]

I wouldnt draft Manziel because of durability. They will catch him eventually. But until they do- I think he will be better than RG3

RG3 is much faster and has a better arm. RG3's injury hurt him this year bc he had no preseason, but he'll be back next season. RG3's injury will be the best thing that happened to him bc now he slides.

RG3 >>> Manziel

[Coach34]

RG3 >>> Manziel

Nope. RG3 doesnt have as much "IT" as Manziel does. Manziel can make people miss and do things RG3 cant do. Manziel's instincts are amazing.

Now that RG3 cant run like he did- he wont ever be as good as he was that 1st season.

[msstate7]

Nope. RG3 doesnt have as much "IT" as Manziel does. Manziel can make people miss and do things RG3 cant do. Manziel's instincts are amazing.

Now that RG3 cant run like he did- he wont ever be as good as he was that 1st season.

I disagree. No one could have passed out of the pocket for the redskins this year bc their ol was horrible.

[Coach34]

I disagree. No one could have passed out of the pocket for the redskins this year bc their ol was horrible.

Cousins did

[msstate7]

Cousins did

http://s27.postimg.org/k8503agfn/image.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

That's cousins stats. Everyone tore up Atlanta

[Coach34]

2 of his 3 games they scored more than they did under Griffin 8 out of 13

[Schultzy]

Everyone knows Manziel's footwork and speed and mobility is a problem.* This just solidifies my belief that the forty is a worthless metric. Why not the 30 yard dash? Or the twenty?

[fishwater99]

RG3 is much faster and has a better arm. RG3's injury hurt him this year bc he had no preseason, but he'll be back next season. RG3's injury will be the best thing that happened to him bc now he slides.

RG3 >>> Manziel

No way. RG3 is not going to stay healthy. If he can't run he becomes one dimensional and you see where that gets him.
He will wash out in a free years after a stint as a backup.

We will see on JF, if he can adapt and stay healthy.

[smootness]

But if RG3 can't stay healthy, or Michael Vick, or anybody else that small who relies on their running ability, why would Manziel stay healthy?

And RG3 has blazing speed...he's faster than just about all the defenders he's facing. Manziel is not. Yes, he is very quick, and that is certainly his best asset. He will still be able to evade the rush well when he sees it and will be able to scramble fairly effectively. But he's not going to be someone who is able to just take off and beat defenses routinely with his legs.

He's going to have to change his game, and I don't see that he has the arm talent, at all, to beat NFL defenses with regularity. I'm honestly not sure why people think he's going to be good in the NFL. If Tebow's game doesn't translate, Manziel's definitely doesn't.

[whosyourdawgy]

I must be watching different games than you haters. Y'all keep saying he doesn't have the arm talent, doesn't make the throws, doesn't have a strong enough arm. I watched a bunch of games with him either in person(both games he played in MS) or on tv. He made some helluva throws from the pocket, on the run. He made zip passes, passes with touch, anticipation passes. The dude is smart on the field. Sure he takes chances and will throw some up for grabs. But when you have the best receiver in college football, you do that sometimes. He makes dlinemen and linebackers look silly on blitzes, avoids the rush better than anyone I've ever seen. I think he is the best qb in this draft and if I needed one, I'd take him in a heart beat.

[msstate7]

I must be watching different games than you haters. Y'all keep saying he doesn't have the arm talent, doesn't make the throws, doesn't have a strong enough arm. I watched a bunch of games with him either in person(both games he played in MS) or on tv. He made some helluva throws from the pocket, on the run. He made zip passes, passes with touch, anticipation passes. The dude is smart on the field. Sure he takes chances and will throw some up for grabs. But when you have the best receiver in college football, you do that sometimes. He makes dlinemen and linebackers look silly on blitzes, avoids the rush better than anyone I've ever seen. I think he is the best qb in this draft and if I needed one, I'd take him in a heart beat.

Watch bridgewater throw then watch Manziel. Manziel just doesn't have the zip.

[msstate7]

Anyone have any idea how well Manziel takes snap from under center and drops back?