It's time....

[BogeyGolfer]

I've been a Ray supporter from day one but at this point I do not think he will be able to get it done. I don't trust his recruiting, game- managing skills or the effort I've seen out of his teams. I think we should pull the trigger at the end of the season and attempt to regain control of our basketball program. It's time!

[msstate7]

Only way I'd support this is if Bruce pearl (or Donovan or calipari) was guaranteed to replace him.

Now next year we better see significant improvement or ray needs to go

[Dawgface]

Not going to happen. He will get 3 years.

[BogeyGolfer]

Now and coming in next year will only equal 3-5 more conference wins... And that's being generous, we will not be a good team next year either. We need to pull the damn plug now.

[Bucky Dog]

I don't know if I'm there yet but he has only one more year with me. I questioned hi coaching decisions too yesterday at the end of the game. We make two free throws to cut the lead to 4 with about :47 left I think. That's only a :12 shot clock difference so you would think you need to make it a free throw shooting game. But, he elects not to foul and Ark just runs the clock down before turning it over with :17 left. That's hardly enough time to try and have two possessions with baskets, while hoping Arky misses their free throws. It made no sense.
I'm hoping this doesn't turn out like the Croom experience, but Ray better get a few good commits, Newman, and show marked improvement next year or he is gone.

[maroonmania]

I don't know if I'm there yet but he has only one more year with me. I questioned hi coaching decisions too yesterday at the end of the game. We make two free throws to cut the lead to 4 with about :47 left I think. That's only a :12 shot clock difference so you would think you need to make it a free throw shooting game. But, he elects not to foul and Ark just runs the clock down before turning it over with :17 left. That's hardly enough time to try and have two possessions with baskets, while hoping Arky misses their free throws. It made no sense.
I'm hoping this doesn't turn out like the Croom experience, but Ray better get a few good commits, Newman, and show marked improvement next year or he is gone.

Yep, the last minute of yesterday's game was pretty inexplicable.

[Dawgface]

I'm not saying he will work magic next year, just can't see SS pulling the trigger after 2 seasons. If we only win 3-4 more sec wins next year, it will be interesting to see if SS considers that enough of an improvement for a 4th.

[shannondawg]

I heard at the game that it appears that Malik is going to LSU, unless something happens........

The guy had on a maroon shirt, so I assume he knows what he is talking about..

[thedawg]

Any coach we hire deserves three years period... Next year is the year.. NIT or we start talking tough decisions

[Political Hack]

if we give him one more you'd better be ready for two more because next year won't be enough for him to right the ship.

we've lost players consistently and I'm not sure we'll keep all of our guys this season. the team has quit on the court. I'm not sure they'll all survive the offseason.

[maroonmania]

I heard at the game that it appears that Malik is going to LSU, unless something happens........

The guy had on a maroon shirt, so I assume he knows what he is talking about..

Boy, that would be a kick in the pants. Its one thing to lose him to an elite program like KY but if we lose him to a mediocre program like LSU that would be sad. Yes, they are certainly better than us RIGHT NOW (very few programs aren't) but over the last 20 years we've been a better program than them.

[fishwater99]

No way he goes to LSU. Its UK, Duke, KU or UNC.

Why would he go to LSU over those schools?

[fishwater99]

Ray gets 4 years, and yes I agree he needs to be gone now.
What gives you any confidence in our AD making a good hire after he hired Ray?
I have no faith in Scott replacing Ray with a good assistant coach, or even with a current head coach, none.

[Dawg61]

if we give him one more you'd better be ready for two more because next year won't be enough for him to right the ship.

we've lost players consistently and I'm not sure we'll keep all of our guys this season. the team has quit on the court. I'm not sure they'll all survive the offseason.

If he starts year 3 without a full 13 I'll want him gone immediately. He's had a ton of time to fill out a roster.

[thedawg]

They didn't look like they quit to me yesterday

[thedawg]

The situation hasn't changed... Ray inherited one of the worst situations in college basketball in a long time by the time every body had smoked off of campus and gotten hurt last year... Coach K would have put a terrible team on the court last year...

This year we were set to be a ton more competitive and then Jalen and Wendell did what they did... Who honestly think we don't have 17-18 wins with Jalens 3s and another experienced body down low? Either way every player on our roster has improved ... I'm not digging up the stats but they have... Its not sexy but we have went from terrible to bad... With luck we didn't get this year our ceiling was average..

Next year the excuses come off.. Period. We add a seven footer that ray has been able to develop for two years.. We add a 6'8 that ray has had for a year in practice.. We add another big man that is being developed at IMG right now... With Gavin and Roquez post depth will not be a problem... We add hopefully two high school shooters.. We desperately need that kid from GA to come on.. Also IJ and Jacoby make jump in shooting department.. Both have shown potential.. We also return our best player in sword.. Bottom line we will be out of the Tyson Cunningham and Tevin Moore business.

We should be a 20 win NIT team next year.. No excuses... And then we will stay at that level for a few years... That's the reality of the situation.. If we don't get to that level next year then it will be "time" as this thread is titled... Until then talking about firing ray in year two is like talking of firing Cohen in year two.. Do u remember how horrible we were in baseball that year?

[ScottH]

He's had a ton of time to fill out a roster.

I haven't thought about it this way but I agree.

We are a D1 program (albeit a bad one) . No reason to not be able to get 13 players. None.

Fill the hopper and process them at year end. Then fill it up again. Then process them again. Right now APR is the least of our worries.

[Coach34]

He's had 1 full recruiting cycle.

He lost 2 players to drugs last season after it was too late to sign anybody else- then lost 2 to knee injuries. No way to have a full roster

This year he lost Daniels cause he didn't qualify- but had to save his scholly cause he enrolled at Christmas
He was at the mercy of the NCAA with NDoye
He had 2 other players leave after it was too late to get anybody else in. You can't bring in players during the Fall that are worth a shit. How is he supposed to have players when he keeps losing the Stands players to drugs and bullshit? Especially when it's after the signing period?

[fishwater99]

Will we have a full roster next year.??
He gets a pass for last year, but its time for Ray to figure out how to use all 13 scholarships.
You should be able to figure out if a player will qualify or not.

[Thrill1]

I've been a Ray supporter from day one but at this point I do not think he will be able to get it done. I don't trust his recruiting, game- managing skills or the effort I've seen out of his teams. I think we should pull the trigger at the end of the season and attempt to regain control of our basketball program. It's time!

We gave SYLVESTER CROOM 5 freaking years!! Shut the hell up! You are clueless.

[Raytoraid83]

No way he goes to LSU. Its UK, Duke, KU or UNC.

Why would he go to LSU over those schools?

As of a couple months ago LSU was his top choice. He loves Johnny Jones.

[Coach34]

You should be able to figure out if a player will qualify or not.

C'mon Fish- you are at the mercy of the player on that. Player A needs a B in a class to qualify in the last Summer session and he is good to go. Player A makes a C+ in the last summer session- leaving you with your dick in your hand. What else ya gonna do?

[Coach34]

As of a couple months ago LSU was his top choice. He loves Johnny Jones.

It's a good bit more involved than that

[shannondawg]

As far as LSU Malik situation, won't say all I heard, but it made sense to me, and with Johnny Jones reputation, don't be surprised if that doesn't happen.. But again that's just what I heard, and had reason to believe it.

I tend to think that Ray will be able to prove that he deserves more time after the season next year. If not something may or may not be done.

Hey, I even thought we had no choice but to hire Croom at the time, won't say it took me 5 years to think otherwise.

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

We are getting ready to offer Troutman whose best offers are UNC-Wilmington and New Hampshire. Welcome to Rick Ray basketball.

[Coach34]

Everybody is in agreement that Ray needs to have and should have a better basketball team next year. He's had the 2 rebuilding years- now it's time to progress in more than the weighroom and discipline. It's time to get some more W's in 2015.

[Raytoraid83]

It's a good bit more involved than that

Yep as all recruiting situations are, and if we don't start playing the recruiting game again Ray does have no chance to win here.

[CadaverDawg]

It doesn't matter where Newman goes because it will NOT be MSU.

I want Ray to get it done, but you can't just have a bunch of average to below average D1 players and expect them to hustle their way to victories over good teams. At some point you have to recruit some above average talent, and so far Ray isn't even close to doing that.

We'll see what happens, but I feel like after next season we'll all be sharing Bogey's thoughts. Hope I'm wrong, but give me 1 good reason why you see things improving?

Are our terrible shooters going to learn how to shoot during the off season?
Do we have more talented players on deck in the recruiting classes?
There's just nothing to give you optimism right now except that our current decent guys have 2 more years. But you can mold a turd for a year straight, and it may look better the following year, but it's still a turd.

[Political Hack]

It doesn't matter where Newman goes because it will NOT be MSU.

I want Ray to get it done, but you can't just have a bunch of average to below average D1 players and expect them to hustle their way to victories over good teams. At some point you have to recruit some above average talent, and so far Ray isn't even close to doing that.

We'll see what happens, but I feel like after next season we'll all be sharing Bogey's thoughts. Hope I'm wrong, but give me 1 good reason why you see things improving?

Are our terrible shooters going to learn how to shoot during the off season?
Do we have more talented players on deck in the recruiting classes?
There's just nothing to give you optimism right now except that our current decent guys have 2 more years. But you can mold a turd for a year straight, and it may look better the following year, but it's still a turd.

I can't name a conference I think this years team could win & I can't name a conference I could predict next years team will win either. We're going nowhere fast.

[tcdog70]

We gave SYLVESTER CROOM 5 freaking years!! Shut the hell up! You are clueless.


Yep and how did that work out?.

[engie]

We are getting ready to offer Troutman whose best offers are UNC-Wilmington and New Hampshire. Welcome to Rick Ray basketball.

I'm confused by the moving goal posts of the "Ray can't recruit" crowd. Let's find a consensus here. The complaint on Troutman = lack of offers.
Well, Oliver Black had an offer from a last year Final 4 team that is about to be the first team in a number of years to make it through the regular season undefeated -- as well as Oklahoma, Ole Miss, and Tulane. Demetrius Houston had offers from Bama, Auburn, and Seton Hall. So, which is it?

So, are we defining his ability to recruit JUST on stars or offers? Because we damn sure aren't defining it based on what "HIS" players from his first full term of recruiting are doing on the floor. He only has one and that one will be a tremendous player for us before he's done.

What is the actual complaint against Troutman's skill set? He's a hilariously underrated shooter because he took a mission trip and missed basically all of his AAU season before his senior year, while playing at a smaller high school in rural Georgia. Some people(totally unrelated to MSU) think he is one of the best shooters coming out this year. The guy hit 11 3s in a high school game and averaged in the mid 20s.

[Coach34]

It doesn't matter where Newman goes because it will NOT be MSU.

I want Ray to get it done, but you can't just have a bunch of average to below average D1 players and expect them to hustle their way to victories over good teams. At some point you have to recruit some above average talent, and so far Ray isn't even close to doing that.

We'll see what happens, but I feel like after next season we'll all be sharing Bogey's thoughts. Hope I'm wrong, but give me 1 good reason why you see things improving?

Are our terrible shooters going to learn how to shoot during the off season?
Do we have more talented players on deck in the recruiting classes?
There's just nothing to give you optimism right now except that our current decent guys have 2 more years. But you can mold a turd for a year straight, and it may look better the following year, but it's still a turd.

A) Agreed. We have no shot at Newman. We arent even it in at this point. We arent putting in what is necessary to get that signature.

B) Our shooters will indeed be better next year. They are better this year than last. Having 5 scholarship players on the court at all times will help them get easier shots also. For example- we had an 8-9 point lead on Auburn and then Sword got his 2nd foul with 10+ minutes left in the 1st half. We then began to turn the ball over and fall apart and allow Auburn to tie and then pass us. We have no bench right now and it kills us

C) Yes we have more talented players joining us in the Fall. Daniels is said to be as good as Ware. He doesnt shoot the 3 like Borchert but is a much better defender and is quicker.
NDoye will give us some more post prescence of the bench to rest Ware. We wont ever have to play Roq at the 5 next year- which kills us on defense.
Houston is going to give us a solid player at the 3 along with FTF- who should be a little better as well next year.
Ready and the other Freshman will have a year of SEC basketball under their belts and should play better next year.

Hell, we were getting beat last year by 20, 30, and 40...now we stay in games and compete for the most part- and we still arent playing with a full roster. Next year will be an improved basketball team.

[I seen it dawg]

Cohen couldn't recruit either...

[CadaverDawg]

A) Agreed. We have no shot at Newman. We arent even it in at this point. We arent putting in what is necessary to get that signature.

B) Our shooters will indeed be better next year. They are better this year than last. Having 5 scholarship players on the court at all times will help them get easier shots also. For example- we had an 8-9 point lead on Auburn and then Sword got his 2nd foul with 10+ minutes left in the 1st half. We then began to turn the ball over and fall apart and allow Auburn to tie and then pass us. We have no bench right now and it kills us

C) Yes we have more talented players joining us in the Fall. Daniels is said to be as good as Ware. He doesnt shoot the 3 like Borchert but is a much better defender and is quicker.
NDoye will give us some more post prescence of the bench to rest Ware. We wont ever have to play Roq at the 5 next year- which kills us on defense.
Houston is going to give us a solid player at the 3 along with FTF- who should be a little better as well next year.
Ready and the other Freshman will have a year of SEC basketball under their belts and should play better next year.

Hell, we were getting beat last year by 20, 30, and 40...now we stay in games and compete for the most part- and we still arent playing with a full roster. Next year will be an improved basketball team.

Hope so. I'm rooting for it

[CadaverDawg]

Cohen couldn't recruit either...

Only an idiot ever said that though. Anyone with any baseball knowledge knew Cohen was a great hire.

Most basketball minds knew Ray was a roll of the dice

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

I'm confused by the moving goal posts of the "Ray can't recruit" crowd. Let's find a consensus here. The complaint on Troutman = lack of offers.
Well, Oliver Black had an offer from a least year's Final 4 team that is about to be the first team in a number of years to make it through the regular undefeated -- as well as Oklahoma, Ole Miss, and Tulane. Demetrius Houston had offers from Bama, Auburn, and Seton Hall. So, which is it? Can Ray only "recruit" when he takes a player North Carolina, Duke, or Kentucky wants?

So, are we defining his ability to recruit JUST on stars or offers? Because we damn sure aren't defining it based on what "HIS" players from his first full term of recruiting are doing on the floor. He only has one and that one will be a tremendous player for us before he's done.

So, what is the actual complaint against Troutman's skill set? He's a hilariously underrated shooter because he took a mission trip and missed basically all of his AAU season before his senior year, while playing at a smaller high school in rural Georgia. Some people(totally unrelated to MSU) think he is one of the best shooters coming out this year. The guy hit 11 3s in a high school game and averaged in the mid 20s.

If you honestly think Oliver Black who averaged 7 pts and 7 rebounds his junior year was offered by all those schools then you are more ignorant than I thought. He is going to be very close on if he qualifies or not. On Troutman, I don't care if he lives in a town of 20 people somehow New Hampshire a school 1000 miles away heard of him. Demetrius Houston we actually did beat some people to sign him thanks to George Brooks. People complain about him not having a full recruiting cycle but he signed 4 guys in the Fall of 2012 and only one is eligible to play! What other program only gets 1 kid eligible out of 4? I guess we just completely sweep under the rug Applewhite transferring?

[Thrill1]

Yep and how did that work out?.

Not too good, but that's not the point. The point is that Ray should and will have time. Croom did and he failed. Cohen did and he succeeded. Ray hasn't even finished year two and folks are calling for his head after three starters have quit/been kicked off. And I haven't seen Shaun Smith or Kristers Ziedaks mentioned in a while - two guys he had to kick off before he coached his first game.

All I'm asking is for folks to use common sense and perspective ... And heck maybe even come to a game.

[I seen it dawg]

Only an idiot ever said that though. Anyone with any baseball knowledge knew Cohen was a great hire.

Most basketball minds knew Ray was a roll of the dice


Exactly. It's the "why aren't we in the tourney this year without having a clue" crowd.

[engie]

Not too good, but that's not the point. The point is that Ray should and will have time. Croom did and he failed. Cohen did and he succeeded. Ray hasn't even finished year two and folks are calling for his head after three starters have quit/been kicked off. And I haven't seen Shaun Smith or Kristers Ziedaks mentioned in a while - two guys he had to kick off before he coached his first game.

All I'm asking is for folks to use common sense and perspective ... And heck maybe even come to a game.

Exactly. That's all ANYONE is asking.

But it'll never happen. Too many people butt hurt about our former coach that are pushing an agenda. Same thing as with the baseball transition. Let Cohen lose a few more games and you'll see these same idiots resurface again in that sport....or should I say, the same people now pretending to have been on the Cohen bandwagon all along will remember and come forth with their anti-Cohen agenda again...

[engie]

Only an idiot ever said that though. Anyone with any baseball knowledge knew Cohen was a great hire.

Most basketball minds knew Ray was a roll of the dice

What has happened with Ray in year 2 that didn't happen with Cohen in year 2?

Why, then, are normally reasonable posters starting to pass judgement on Ray at a point in time when they were patient with Cohen?

The point being -- we don't know shit on Ray yet -- and won't until next year. There are COUNTLESS examples in the SEC right now of teams chock full of 4 and 5* players with hotshot "can't miss" coaches that currently suck. Why, then, is everyone dead set that WE have to follow those blueprints to success -- when it's being proven as not currently working all around us? And we're defining our coach's "failure" at recruiting based on all these teams that have "succeeded" in recruiting only to crash and burn on the court? Because Ray isn't recruiting players with enough "stars" -- when we've only seen one true Ray recruit on the court thusfar?

The last couple of weeks have been shit. No doubt about it. That doesn't change the fact that next year is the first time that the rubber has a legitimate chance to start meeting the road -- and consequently when we can begin actually judging Rick Ray.

[I seen it dawg]

Exactly. That's all ANYONE is asking.

But it'll never happen. Too many people butt hurt about our former coach that are pushing an agenda. Same thing as with the baseball transition. Let Cohen lose a few more games and you'll see these same idiots resurface again in that sport....or should I say, the same people now pretending to have been on the Cohen bandwagon all along will remember and come forth with their anti-Cohen agenda again...

This is huge and real.

[CadaverDawg]

What has happened with Ray in year 2 that didn't happen with Cohen in year 2?

Why, then, are normally reasonable posters starting to pass judgement on Ray at a point in time when they were patient with Cohen?

The point being -- we don't know shit on Ray yet -- and won't until next year. There are COUNTLESS examples in the SEC right now of teams chock full of 4 and 5* players with hotshot "can't miss" coaches that currently suck. Why, then, is everyone dead set that WE have to follow those blueprints to success -- when it's being proven as not currently working all around us? And we're defining our coach's "failure" at recruiting based on all these teams that have "succeeded" in recruiting only to crash and burn on the court? Because Ray isn't recruiting players with enough "stars" -- when we've only seen one true Ray recruit on the court thusfar?

The last couple of weeks have been shit. No doubt about it. That doesn't change the fact that next year is the first time that the rubber has a legitimate chance to start meeting the road -- and consequently when we can begin actually judging Rick Ray.

Because bball has 5 players and is easier to turn around IMO. Look, I'm not saying I've given up on Ray. But at least Cohen had a history to base things on. It's a terrible comparison.

I hope Ray can get it going, and I'm not ready for us to get rid of him. I just have a feeling that we aren't going to turn it around without getting a true playmaker/gamechanger type...and I don't see him on our team or in our recruiting class. Does it mean it can't happen...nope.

Hopefully it does. Too early to count Ray out...but after 3 years we should have a good idea.

[Coach34]

What bothers the most is the bullshit on Malik Newman. I can handle people not having the foresight to understand that we will be better next year. Posters sell furniture, refinance loans, work as policemen, etc- and arent trained in team management.

But the anti-Ray bunch keeps pushing the "Ray HASSSSSSS to sign Newman to survive" mantra around to everyone. The say this, knowing all along and full well we arent going to sign Newman because we dont recruit the same way under our new regime. We have no chance at him.

Engie has a good point- what the other coaches around the league are doing currently isnt working. High-rated "athletes" from around the South arent getting it done on the basketball court these days. We'll see what Ray is made of these next 2 years. I expect us to be a solid basketball team next year. Rebuilding is done come April

[CadaverDawg]

What bothers the most is the bullshit on Malik Newman. I can handle people not having the foresight to understand that we will be better next year. Posters sell furniture, refinance loans, work as policemen, etc- and arent trained in team management.

But the anti-Ray bunch keeps pushing the "Ray HASSSSSSS to sign Newman to survive" mantra around to everyone. The say this, knowing all along and full well we arent going to sign Newman because we dont recruit the same way under our new regime. We have no chance at him.

Engie has a good point- what the other coaches around the league are doing currently isnt working. High-rated "athletes" from around the South arent getting it done on the basketball court these days. We'll see what Ray is made of these next 2 years. I expect us to be a solid basketball team next year. Rebuilding is done come April

I agree with this. The "Ray has to get Newman" crowd is just ridiculous. I am completely behind Ray, but I don't feel like I should be called out if I'm not overly confident that he will get us back to the tourney one day. I hope he will, but I easily see how some people don't think he will. I just wish everyone would give him another year and then start coming to conclusions....after what he took over, he deserves 3 years at least.

[engie]

Because bball has 5 players and is easier to turn around IMO. Look, I'm not saying I've given up on Ray. But at least Cohen had a history to base things on. It's a terrible comparison.
Not when you are looking at it in snapshots of the current situation. Year 2 vs year 2 is as similar as you can possibly imagine. Year 1 as well. The situations they walked into as well. A large portion of the blue hair fanbase's reaction and sabotage as well. What they had done previously as immaterial to what they were/are doing at that point in time at MSU. Saying "well Cohen had a track record" is true -- but it didn't guarantee his success at MSU any more than the last 10 "proven" midmajor and even big 6(see Andersen, Mike) basketball coaches to ultimately fail all around the SEC. And it's been about that many since one came in and had sustained, legitimate success. Fact is -- a whole people were off the Cohen bandwagon those first 2 years. And Ray is experiencing the same thing to an even greater extent.

My problem in all this is with the judgement of Ray at this point. It's still too soon. We didn't know for sure if he would have success here when we hired him -- and we still don't know either way. Next year will tell us. It took Tom Crean 4 years after all. And Frank Martin is still behind Ray with a similar inherent situation.


I hope Ray can get it going, and I'm not ready for us to get rid of him. I just have a feeling that we aren't going to turn it around without getting a true playmaker/gamechanger type...and I don't see him on our team or in our recruiting class. Does it mean it can't happen...nope.
Maybe so. We will see.


Hopefully it does. Too early to count Ray out...but after 3 years we should have a good idea.
Exactly right. But "having a feeling he isn't" is kinda already counting him out isn't it?

I'm approaching it as a clean canvas. Next year is, for all intents and purposes, the "real" beginning to his career at MSU for me. He struggles and misses the NIT, I'll be ready to go another direction. Until then, it's a clean canvas -- and nothing that happened in years one or two mattered.

[Political Hack]

Exactly. That's all ANYONE is asking.

But it'll never happen. Too many people butt hurt about our former coach that are pushing an agenda. Same thing as with the baseball transition. Let Cohen lose a few more games and you'll see these same idiots resurface again in that sport....or should I say, the same people now pretending to have been on the Cohen bandwagon all along will remember and come forth with their anti-Cohen agenda again...

I was ready for Stans to go and I have doubts about Ray's ability to turn it around. Grouping the two crowds together doesn't accomplish anything and only distracts from the issue of finding a solution to better our basketball program. I hope Ray gets it right and we can compete to go .500 in the SEC next year, but if we're this late into year three without a single conference road win I think it's going to be pretty obvious to everyone.

To some, it's already becoming obvious. I've avoided saying this because it almost sounds "anti-discipline" and that's not my intent... but... The mitaristic management of a team that participates in a sport consumed by premadonnas is not going to work. plain and simple. You've got to walk a line to be successful in major college basketball and Ray isn't walking it right now. He's acting like he's Coach K and can just afford to toss anyone aside who crosses him. He can't. He's got to find a better way to manage the roster and right now he's failing miserably in that department... and THAT department is by get the most important one to manage.

[HailState39110]

I don't mind losing Newmann to Kentucky or UNC or some history rich tradition school . I somewhat understand why a player would pass up an opportunity to play in state for that type of exposure. But if he signs with LSU that would really just piss me off. Why go to another SEC school that we have been just as competitive as the past 20 years?

[engie]

I was ready for Stans to go and I have doubts about Ray's ability to turn it around. Grouping the two crowds together doesn't accomplish anything and only distracts from the issue of finding a solution to better our basketball program. I hope Ray gets it right and we can compete to go .500 in the SEC next year, but if we're this late into year three without a single conference road win I think it's going to be pretty obvious to everyone.

To some, it's already becoming obvious. I've avoided saying this because it almost sounds "anti-discipline" and that's not my intent... but... The mitaristic management of a team that participates in a sport consumed by premadonnas is not going to work. plain and simple. You've got to walk a line to be successful in major college basketball and Ray isn't walking it right now. He's acting like he's Coach K and can just afford to toss anyone aside who crosses him. He can't. He's got to find a better way to manage the roster and right now he's failing miserably in that department... and THAT department is by get the most important one to manage.

How do you know it isn't going to work? What proof do you have?

I think it's ridiculous to be passing judgement right now either way. The margin for error is simply too great. "Doubting his ability to turn it around" while still in the rebuild before he's had a legitimate chance to turn it around is fair to him/the basketball program in what way?

[CadaverDawg]

But "having a feeling he isn't" is kinda already counting him out isn't it?

No.

Not to me.

[fishwater99]

So how many scholarship players will we have next fall? 11? Why not 13?

My point is that Ray can't take that many gambles on players that are not elligable to play.
We need a full roster, get some JUCO's or its going to be year 4 and he's fired.

[Coach34]

Because bball has 5 players and is easier to turn around IMO.

Not when the previous coach has literally left you 1 player out of a possible 13 to rebuild with

Year 1- Ray loses Smith and Zedakis during the summer to drugs. It's too late then to go sign someone to replace them. Then he loses Lewis and Steele to season ending injuries. Ray also lost 2 of his own signees to ACL's. Just a cluster**** of a season.

Year 2- Lewis smokes his way off the team. Steele demands to redshirt. Ray loses 2 of his best 5 players before the season starts and it's too late to replace them.
Daniels doesnt complete his coursework in the last Summer session. The NCAA screws us on N'Doye.

You can say it doesnt much to rebuild in basketball- but when you face the shit Ray has faced- it's not that simple.

[Coach34]

I don't mind losing Newmann to Kentucky or UNC or some history rich tradition school . I somewhat understand why a player would pass up an opportunity to play in state for that type of exposure. But if he signs with LSU that would really just piss me off. Why go to another SEC school that we have been just as competitive as the past 20 years?

Because they are doing what is required to get his signature

[BogeyGolfer]

It's going to take a spark much like Mullen in 09' for our program to change course. Otherwise, we are still going to have a bad team next year and I'm not satisfied with still being a bad team. I see no other way but to replace Ray and bring in someone who can create excitement. It can be done. I think P. Hack said it best when he stated " we are going nowhere fast"... Not what you wAnt to see from a second year coach.

[HailState39110]

Because they are doing what is required to get his signature

Which leads me to my next question, why aren't we doing everything we can to get his signature? I've said this before . College basketball is the dirtiest of them all. If our head coach and administration doesn't want to play 'the game' let's move down to Division 3 or NAIA and start playing Delta State or Belhaven because that's the type of talent we will be bringing in . NEWSFLASH: WE PLAY MAJOR COLLEGE BASKETBALL, START ACTING LIKE IT

[Coach34]

. I think P. Hack said it best when he stated " we are going nowhere fast"... Not what you wAnt to see from a second year coach.

Cohen went 6-24 in the SEC baseball in his 2nd season. We were "going nowhere fast" then also.

Engie and I make the comparision because both programs were in need of much bigger rebuilds than the fans realized. And it took longer than we hoped. People get impatient- it's human nature.

Cohen was successful in his. We wont know if Ray will be until next season. LET IT PLAY OUT

[dawgs]

What has happened with Ray in year 2 that didn't happen with Cohen in year 2?

Why, then, are normally reasonable posters starting to pass judgement on Ray at a point in time when they were patient with Cohen?

The point being -- we don't know shit on Ray yet -- and won't until next year. There are COUNTLESS examples in the SEC right now of teams chock full of 4 and 5* players with hotshot "can't miss" coaches that currently suck. Why, then, is everyone dead set that WE have to follow those blueprints to success -- when it's being proven as not currently working all around us? And we're defining our coach's "failure" at recruiting based on all these teams that have "succeeded" in recruiting only to crash and burn on the court? Because Ray isn't recruiting players with enough "stars" -- when we've only seen one true Ray recruit on the court thusfar?

The last couple of weeks have been shit. No doubt about it. That doesn't change the fact that next year is the first time that the rubber has a legitimate chance to start meeting the road -- and consequently when we can begin actually judging Rick Ray.

several reasons:

1) cohen was a proven commodity, whereas ray is absolutely not

2) it's much easier to improve quickly in basketball than baseball (or football) because 1 player can make a huge difference. if we could stick newman (or pick another stud currently playing MBB) on our current roster and let these guys play a supporting role to a superstar, we'd be a NIT team minimum. in baseball, even 1 superstar hitter only comes to bat every 9th batter or only pitches every 5th game.

3) ray's recruiting isn't really hinting at a bright future. the fact that we aren't even in the newman race is very very telling (not saying he has to sign him, but we should at minimum be in the discussion and we really aren't). now maybe some of this isn't ray's fault and SS has him on a leash to limit playing the AAU game, but if we aren't playing the AAU game, then we'll never be worth a shit in basketball again.

[dawgs]

Not when the previous coach has literally left you 1 player out of a possible 13 to rebuild with

Year 1- Ray loses Smith and Zedakis during the summer to drugs. It's too late then to go sign someone to replace them. Then he loses Lewis and Steele to season ending injuries. Ray also lost 2 of his own signees to ACL's. Just a cluster**** of a season.

Year 2- Lewis smokes his way off the team. Steele demands to redshirt. Ray loses 2 of his best 5 players before the season starts and it's too late to replace them.
Daniels doesnt complete his coursework in the last Summer session. The NCAA screws us on N'Doye.

You can say it doesnt much to rebuild in basketball- but when you face the shit Ray has faced- it's not that simple.

i said last year that i don't think coach K or anyone else in the world of MBB would have finished with more than 1-2 Ws more than ray did with that squad. ray did a great job maximizing results. HOWEVER, i believe coach K and other elite coaches would have us improved in year 2. sure we've had some bad breaks, but the core of our young guys returned, we have more scholarship depth than last year, AND our schedule is much easier (at least the non-conference portion). the chance was there to make whatever that tourney below the NIT is called, and THIS YEAR i think a better coach would have gotten us there.

[engie]

i said last year that i don't think coach K or anyone else in the world of MBB would have finished with more than 1-2 Ws more than ray did with that squad. ray did a great job maximizing results. HOWEVER, i believe coach K and other elite coaches would have us improved in year 2. sure we've had some bad breaks, but the core of our young guys returned, we have more scholarship depth than last year, AND our schedule is much easier (at least the non-conference portion). the chance was there to make whatever that tourney below the NIT is called, and THIS YEAR i think a better coach would have gotten us there.

So, how do you explain Frank Martin?

[Coach34]

several reasons:

1) cohen was a proven commodity, whereas ray is absolutely not

2) it's much easier to improve quickly in basketball than baseball (or football) because 1 player can make a huge difference. if we could stick newman (or pick another stud currently playing MBB) on our current roster and let these guys play a supporting role to a superstar, we'd be a NIT team minimum. in baseball, even 1 superstar hitter only comes to bat every 9th batter or only pitches every 5th game.

3) ray's recruiting isn't really hinting at a bright future. the fact that we aren't even in the newman race is very very telling (not saying he has to sign him, but we should at minimum be in the discussion and we really aren't). now maybe some of this isn't ray's fault and SS has him on a leash to limit playing the AAU game, but if we aren't playing the AAU game, then we'll never be worth a shit in basketball again.


Response to #1- that "proven commodity" was catching a whole lotta shit at the end of Year 2. There were alot of people losing faith in that "proven commodity" and calling for his head. Short memories around here.

Response to #2- it is unless you have had to make a complete roster overhaul like we have. And Ray has only had 1 full recruiting cycle to get players on the court. The rest were throw-ins after he was hired in April, 2012.

Response to #3- the fact we are not in the running for Newman is because of the direction our AD wants the program to go in. It is no reflection on Ray at all. I'm not saying we'll be successful this way or not- but we are at least "taking a break from the drama" associated with the way or former regime recruited. And it's also why you will see Ray get at least 4 years.

[engie]

several reasons:

1) cohen was a proven commodity, whereas ray is absolutely not
And that guaranteed us success when we were 6-24 in the SEC?


2) it's much easier to improve quickly in basketball than baseball (or football) because 1 player can make a huge difference. if we could stick newman (or pick another stud currently playing MBB) on our current roster and let these guys play a supporting role to a superstar, we'd be a NIT team minimum. in baseball, even 1 superstar hitter only comes to bat every 9th batter or only pitches every 5th game.
This is a common misnomer based on an outright lie.

- Why isn't LSU winning big? They signed a 5* SF, a 4* PF, and a 4* PG last year among 6 total signees. Why aren't they lighting the woods on fire? Are we going to pretend Jones took over a worse team there than Ray did at MSU? Probably not, huh?

- Why isn't Arkansas winning big? They signed a 5* PF and high 4* C last year. What gives?

- Why isn't Bama winning big? They signed a high 4* C and high 4* PF last year. What's up with it?

- Why isn't Tennessee winning big? They signed a 5* SG and had a highly-sought transfer from Memphis to go along with all the talent already there. What's their problem?

Do you need me to keep going?


3) ray's recruiting isn't really hinting at a bright future. the fact that we aren't even in the newman race is very very telling (not saying he has to sign him, but we should at minimum be in the discussion and we really aren't). now maybe some of this isn't ray's fault and SS has him on a leash to limit playing the AAU game, but if we aren't playing the AAU game, then we'll never be worth a shit in basketball again.
And you base all this on an outright lie.

[dawgs]

So, how do you explain Frank Martin?

i'd give frank martin an extra year or 2 over an unknown commodity like rick ray to right the ship since he's done it elsewhere. that said, it doesn't mean a guy with previous success will be successful 100% of the time in a new job, but he's earned a bit more rope to hang himself with. that's my only point with regards to this ray/cohen comparison.

[dawgs]

And that guaranteed us success when we were 6-24 in the SEC?


This is a common misnomer based on an outright lie.

- Why isn't LSU winning big? They signed a 5* SF, a 4* PF, and a 4* PG last year among 6 total signees. Why aren't they lighting the woods on fire? Are we going to pretend Jones took over a worse team there than Ray did at MSU? Probably not, huh?

- Why isn't Arkansas winning big? They signed a 5* PF and high 4* C last year. What gives?

- Why isn't Bama winning big? They signed a high 4* C and high 4* PF last year. What's up with it?

- Why isn't Tennessee winning big? They signed a 5* SG and had a highly-sought transfer from Memphis to go along with all the talent already there. What's their problem?

Do you need me to keep going?


And you base all this on an outright lie.

1) i said that's why people were willing to i've cohen more rope, not that people were content. sure some people were already fed up, but most were willing to wait and see another year or 2. i never once said it guaranteed cohen would turn things around, just that if he's done it before elsewhere, people will put more faith in him to turn it around here even after a slow start.

2) lsu is 16-10 and playing for a NIT bid. arkansas is 18-9 and playing for a NIT bid. bama's coach is a dead man walking and came into the season on the hot seat. that's been known for awhile. he's lost the team. tennessee is 16-11 and playing for a NIT bid. it's also worth noting the SoS here. lsu is 66, arkansas is 79, bama is 3, and tennessee is 12. our SoS is 171. the lowest in the conference by nearly 50 spots. i also never said we'd be setting the world on fire with 1 superstar, i said with 1 superstar and our current players in supporting roles instead of leading roles would make us an NIT team. we'd probably not be that far off from lsu, arkansas, and tennessee, albeit with a much worse schedule so maybe a few more Ws. the fact that you try to use arkansas, tennessee, and lsu to disprove my comment is ****ing laughable really since those are essentially the teams i said we could be on par with with a superstar talent to center our current roster around. sure you aren't guaranteed success, and that's why the coach gets fired, like what's gonna happen in bama in a couple of weeks.

3) how is that a lie? coach34 says the admin is preventing ray from recruiting the AAU circuit like a major conference program should. if the admin is pulling that on ray, then that's too bad for him. he needs to get in there and tell them he's going to start hitting the AAU circuit like his competitors, because if he doesn't he's gonna get his ass fired anyway. if strickland fires him on the spot, then so be it, he was already destined to get fired anyway by signing kids away from usm and unc-wilmington.

[Dawg61]

For me personally I give Ray till the first game of next season to have a roster with 13 scholarship players. That's my due date. He will have had 31 months to complete that task. Bear, Moore and Staley don't count. No excuses. Get it done. Start the season with 13 and I'll then judge Ray on his team's performance and his coaching in year 3 to see if I'd extend him for year 4. Ray wants to play hard-nosed up-tempo basketball yet continues to try and do that with less players than teams that just want to play normal tempo normal toughness whatever basketball. We fired Rick Stansbury to get a better coach. Rick Stansbury always had more players than Rick Ray. Think about that for a second. Rick Ray's whole philosophy on basketball is to play tough, disciplined, creating steals, up-tempo basketball yet the coach that had zero discipline, zero toughness, zero strength & conditioning ALWAYS HAD MORE PLAYERS on his roster. FILL OUT THE ROSTER Rick Ray because until you do that I just think you have no clue what you're doing. I'm not asking something difficult or impossible to achieve. There's like 320 basketball teams and about 319 of them have no problems filling out the alloted 13 scholarships. Get that accomplished Ray and I grant you another season to prove your worth. As of right now he only needs to add 1 player to get there but if he's worried about a player or two not making it to next season he best cut them and get replacements now. May I suggest some shooters.

[Coach34]

3) how is that a lie? coach34 says the admin is preventing ray from recruiting the AAU circuit like a major conference program should. if the admin is pulling that on ray, then that's too bad for him. he needs to get in there and tell them he's going to start hitting the AAU circuit like his competitors, because if he doesn't he's gonna get his ass fired anyway. if strickland fires him on the spot, then so be it, he was already destined to get fired anyway by signing kids away from usm and unc-wilmington.


I didn't say he couldnt recruit AAU....I just said he was brought in to recruit differently

[dawgs]

I didn't say he couldnt recruit AAU....I just said he was brought in to recruit differently

let's not get into a semantics argument. if he was brought in to recruit differently, then that means it's at least implied that strickland doesn't want him getting involved in the big AAU battles.

we have one of the top couple juniors in the country 2 hours from campus, in state, son of a former player at msu, and we can't even get in the discussion because "we are recruiting differently"??? we literally could not be in better potential shape to land arguably the best player in the country and we are going to **** it up because "we are recruiting differently"? that's the most idiotic recruiting philosophy i've ever heard. not every 5* is a sidney-like cancer.

[Coach34]

Preaching g to the choir- I'd have a posse of former players and any booster I cod find to make it happen

[shannondawg]

I don't mind losing Newmann to Kentucky or UNC or some history rich tradition school . I somewhat understand why a player would pass up an opportunity to play in state for that type of exposure. But if he signs with LSU that would really just piss me off. Why go to another SEC school that we have been just as competitive as the past 20 years?

I think Coach34 has all but spelled it out for you...

[Political Hack]

Cohen went 6-24 in the SEC baseball in his 2nd season. We were "going nowhere fast" then also.

Engie and I make the comparision because both programs were in need of much bigger rebuilds than the fans realized. And it took longer than we hoped. People get impatient- it's human nature.

Cohen was successful in his. We wont know if Ray will be until next season. LET IT PLAY OUT

Comparing a State grad who has been a head coach elsewhere and been successful as a player at State and a coach in the SEC is a tad bit different than an out of state guy with no relationship to the sec or State being given extra time to rebuild. not to mention rebuilding in basketball is BY FAR the easiest sport to rebuild in. Kentucky does it every single year but we need 3-4 years. Bullshit. If you're not on your way to winning by year 3, it's not happening. And we are not on our way to winning in year three.

[Coach34]

It's take longer when you have to rebuild the whole roster. Comparing us to Kentucky is stupid- they are Elite and recruit nationwide. Kentucky has 4-star players walk-on just to be part of their program

Hell, even Indiana had to take 3 years to rebuild when they went on probation- and they are Indiana

We'll see what Year 3 has in store this November

[shannondawg]

A man gotta do what he gotta do..

[Political Hack]

Probation cost Indiana. We aren't caparable to UK, but Ray isn't comparable to Cohen either.

he's got to build a roster and he's in a great state to do it with the Jucos.

[engie]

Probation cost Indiana. We aren't caparable to UK, but Ray isn't comparable to Cohen either.

he's got to build a roster and he's in a great state to do it with the Jucos.

Billy Donovan went 14-15(6-10) in year 2 at Florida in a MUCH more talent-rich state than Mississippi... Did that make him an imminent failure?

I'm not saying Rick Ray is Billy Donovan -- and I didn't say he was John Cohen either -- just that it's ridiculous to define Ray on what's happened so far.

[Coach34]

Billy Donovan went 14-15(6-10) in year 2 at Florida in a MUCH more talent-rich state than Mississippi... Did that make him an imminent failure?

I'm not saying Rick Ray is Billy Donovan -- and I didn't say he was John Cohen either -- just that it's ridiculous to define Ray on what's happened so far.

This just gets lost on so many people. And Hell, Hack has half a brain and he is still missing it. All we can do is wait for November and all the C34 threads making fun of all the people that raised so much Hell. Then they get mad at me for patting myself on the back when it comes to fruition. Lather, rinse, repeat

[Political Hack]

I actually have a big ol' full brain and I did see it... until I saw his team quit on him. that concerns me. if his guys either 1) quit the program and leave or 2) quit on the court, we will not win under him. Right now I've seen a lot of both. He can be Bobby Knight as a floor coach, but if he can't build and manage a roster he's screwed. When I saw the guys on his roster quit the 2nd half of this season, it changed my opinion on the matter.

Another thing that gets me is that y'all blamed Rick for the BS in the stands, the weed smoking, etc... but Ray isn't responsible for that now. BS. they were and are both responsible for it. I bitched about it with Stans and I'm going to bitch about it with Ray. The only difference is that we're bleeding players now.

Also, basketball was my sport. I know the game better than I know any other. I understand X's and O's and floor coaching and game management. It was so piss poor under Stans that some people are just happy to see competence. I get that. But competence doesn't mean "greatness." Our bar has been set extremely low on expectations for what constitutes a "great floor coach." it's a little absurd IMO. Ray is an average floor coach based on what I've seen and I'm not sure he can identify and recruit talent.

[Bully13]

This just gets lost on so many people. And Hell, Hack has half a brain and he is still missing it. All we can do is wait for November and all the C34 threads making fun of all the people that raised so much Hell. Then they get mad at me for patting myself on the back when it comes to fruition. Lather, rinse, repeat

your complaints about stans were legit coach. you did not have any sayso as to who would be replacing him. you and all of us are right to give the one chosen a right to right the ship. the question at this point as to whether or not the selection process went through the best channels. did they? at this point it is legit as to whether that process was done in the matter it should have been done.

things suck worse than we were expecting at this point and that is worth debate..

[Coach34]

things suck worse than we were expecting at this point and that is worth debate..

But as long as we are honest about WHY they are worse I'm ok with.

Nobody expected Smith and Zedakis to smoke their way out of college basketball
Nobody expected Wendell Lewis to smoke his way out of college basketball as a 5th yr Sr....i mean wtf'ing ****????
Nobody expected our SR guard to refuse to play this year- after recruiting season was over mind you- and cripple this team and program even further

Now Ray gets a little blame for Daniels not getting eligible for this year...no doubt, but Ray is at the NCAA's mercy on N'Doye. The thing is, as much as it sucks now- I think we will be glad in the long run we get Daniels for 2015 and 2016.

[engie]

Another thing that gets me is that y'all blamed Rick for the BS in the stands, the weed smoking, etc... but Ray isn't responsible for that now. BS. they were and are both responsible for it. I bitched about it with Stans and I'm going to bitch about it with Ray. The only difference is that we're bleeding players now.

I respect you alot as a poster Hack, but you completely and totally lost me on this to a greater extent than anything you've ever posted before...

So, we are giving Ray a "pass" for discipline problems? What discipline problems? When did the players fight in the stands under him? When was there rampant drug abuse that went unpunished under him? So, you are mad at him for his lack of accountability -- while also being mad at him because we are cutting lose unaccountable players that are failing drug tests that then hurts our team? Which is it? Seems an awful lot like that statement is trying to have the cake and eat it too. I've seen NOTHING to imply the inmates are running the asylum under Ray.

[tcdog70]

I actually have a big ol' full brain and I did see it... until I saw his team quit on him. that concerns me. if his guys either 1) quit the program and leave or 2) quit on the court, we will not win under him. Right now I've seen a lot of both. He can be Bobby Knight as a floor coach, but if he can't build and manage a roster he's screwed. When I saw the guys on his roster quit the 2nd half of this season, it changed my opinion on the matter.

Another thing that gets me is that y'all blamed Rick for the BS in the stands, the weed smoking, etc... but Ray isn't responsible for that now. BS. they were and are both responsible for it. I bitched about it with Stans and I'm going to bitch about it with Ray. The only difference is that we're bleeding players now.

Also, basketball was my sport. I know the game better than I know any other. I understand X's and O's and floor coaching and game management. It was so piss poor under Stans that some people are just happy to see competence. I get that. But competence doesn't mean "greatness." Our bar has been set extremely low on expectations for what constitutes a "great floor coach." it's a little absurd IMO. Ray is an average floor coach based on what I've seen and I'm not sure he can identify and recruit talent.


Good job for keeping an open mind. You are correct in seeing that Ray is not a x and o genius. In fact he is lost. Is it not pretty clear He can't recruit. The average players he recruits then in turn can't get qualified . His first recruit was a felon.
He was reputed to have this awesome pressure defense with all this hustle, but instead we have smurf guards who can't stop dribble penetration or stop a jump shot. We have no one that can defend the post, thus an endless Stream of lay ups and dunks. Then this brilliant x and o coach doesn't have enough basketball IQ to foul at the end of the Ark. Game. They were shooting 50% from the free throw line.

[state66]

I actually have a big ol' full brain and I did see it... until I saw his team quit on him. that concerns me. if his guys either 1) quit the program and leave or 2) quit on the court, we will not win under him. Right now I've seen a lot of both. He can be Bobby Knight as a floor coach, but if he can't build and manage a roster he's screwed. When I saw the guys on his roster quit the 2nd half of this season, it changed my opinion on the matter.

Another thing that gets me is that y'all blamed Rick for the BS in the stands, the weed smoking, etc... but Ray isn't responsible for that now. BS. they were and are both responsible for it. I bitched about it with Stans and I'm going to bitch about it with Ray. The only difference is that we're bleeding players now.

Also, basketball was my sport. I know the game better than I know any other. I understand X's and O's and floor coaching and game management. It was so piss poor under Stans that some people are just happy to see competence. I get that. But competence doesn't mean "greatness." Our bar has been set extremely low on expectations for what constitutes a "great floor coach." it's a little absurd IMO. Ray is an average floor coach based on what I've seen and I'm not sure he can identify and recruit talent.

I watched a state team play pretty damn hard against arkansas man and would not ever say they quit on ray. To be honest Ive only seen one game where that argument is even relevant. Im at the damn games where are you? And if your there what others games have they quit besides that one blowout where everyone said the team quit? I see a competitive team thats just outmanned

[Coach34]

I respect you alot as a poster Hack, but you completely and totally lost me on this to a greater extent than anything you've ever posted before...

So, we are giving Ray a "pass" for discipline problems? What discipline problems? When did the players fight in the stands under him? When was there rampant drug abuse that went unpunished under him? So, you are mad at him for his lack of accountability -- while also being mad at him because we are cutting lose unaccountable players that are failing drug tests that then hurts our team? Which is it? Seems an awful lot like that statement is trying to have the cake and eat it too. I've seen NOTHING to imply the inmates are running the asylum under Ray.

good post

Hack has become a friend of mine- so let me take a stab at this

Hack loves basketball- its his fav sport
Hack hates losing
Hack is human, so as with any human, patience is not always at the forefront
Hack is going to be pissed at me come next January if Ray delivers like I think he can- cause I rub salt like no other

[fishwater99]

I hope you are right about next years. Will we have a full roster next November?
We have got to have a full squad, recruiting is my biggest area of concern for coach Ray.

I like some of the intangables I have seen from Ray.
Our guys play hard, listen, hustle, and are disciplined.
I am not impressed with Rays offense or defenses in the 2nd halfs of games, we get outcoached there some.
I don't know why we did not foul Sat to extend the game. Hopefully Ray is learning from his mistakes.
We have to win those close ones at home, and it would help if we had some more butts in the seats.

[Coach34]

I thought the way Ray played it was brilliant.

We got a turnover at 18.9 seconds left down 4. All we needed to do was get a shot and score within 10 seconds- but with all the people out and such we couldnt do it.

[CadaverDawg]

I thought the way Ray played it was brilliant.

We got a turnover at 18.9 seconds left down 4. All we needed to do was get a shot and score within 10 seconds- but with all the people out and such we couldnt do it.

It's a good thing Ray was able to predict that turnover.**

You foul in that situation. Period. It was a terrible decision and if we hadn't gotten the steal it would have looked even dumber.

I like Rick, but defending that decision is silly mane.

[RougeDawg]

Ray is not a very good coach. Plain and simple. Good motivator maybe but coach hell no. I've been saying this all yr. the interview I listened to him for the ford time confirmed my original thoughts on him. At this level a coach is not really going got effect a players skill set: shooting, etc. At this level a good coach has his team prepped well enough that you don't make the elementary mistakes that this team is making more and more of, the longer Ray is around. Stupid turnovers and our play over the past 2 months should have every bulldog concerned about Ray and his coaching abilities. Playing semi sound ball while losing because the other team is simply better than you is somewhat acceptable. BUT, We have been playing sloppy with an untalented team, losing to shitty teams by huge margins. A well prepped team by a better coach would have beaten USC Georgia and Auburn the last 3. We lost those because of ill advised junior high turnovers and stupid play. If that's acceptable to any of you from a D-1 SEC team, you need mental help. This shit is pathetic.

[shannondawg]

There was a period during the second half, when the refs just let Ark maul our players on D. Rick went out and said something to the ref at the timeout and looked both pissed and dejected, and it seemed to rub off on the other coaches as well. I figured at that time is was over, but to their credit the team came back and made a game of it. It was about the time of the elbow to the jaw incident. It happened right in front of me, and I swear it looked like it was a case of his jaw hitting the elbow rather than vice versa, and was below the shoulder, cause he was all over him. Haven't watched the replay yet but plan to.

As far as the not calling timeout at the end, I wondered what Ray's reason for not calling TO. I see that happening with other coaches from time to time, and always wonder what was their thinking at the time. Its not like they don't know they can call a TO. I guess they are gambling on a steal or something. Its a gamble either way..

[Political Hack]

I respect you alot as a poster Hack, but you completely and totally lost me on this to a greater extent than anything you've ever posted before...

So, we are giving Ray a "pass" for discipline problems? What discipline problems? When did the players fight in the stands under him? When was there rampant drug abuse that went unpunished under him? So, you are mad at him for his lack of accountability -- while also being mad at him because we are cutting lose unaccountable players that are failing drug tests that then hurts our team? Which is it? Seems an awful lot like that statement is trying to have the cake and eat it too. I've seen NOTHING to imply the inmates are running the asylum under Ray.

Don't misinterpret my point here. In no way am I suggesting that the team is running the show like they did with Stans. I don't think that's the case, but "accountability" is an "after the fact" issue... and the fact remains that our players are still breaking rules left and right. that's why we don't have a roster.

Disciplining someone after the break a rule is great. making sure they never break it in the first place is much more preferable though. And believe it or not, that happens at some programs.

[Political Hack]

good post

Hack has become a friend of mine- so let me take a stab at this

Hack loves basketball- its his fav sport
Hack hates losing
Hack is human, so as with any human, patience is not always at the forefront
Hack is going to be pissed at me come next January if Ray delivers like I think he can- cause I rub salt like no other

I won't be pissed at you. I'll be happy as a clam if we're winning. If nothing else I think I've proven I can put personal vendettas aside for the greater good.

We've lost almost 10 straight now. I'm not sure we'll win another game this season either. We're two years in and haven't won a single road game in conference play. We quit against Georgia, A&M, and Florida. I don't like what I'm seeing and I don't see signs of improvement. He deserves time and he'll get it and I hope like hell y'all are right.

[Coach34]

We're two years in and haven't won a single road game in conference play.

What? Ray won the first SEC road game he ever had last year at Georgia

[drunkernhelldawg]

A) Agreed. We have no shot at Newman. We arent even it in at this point. We arent putting in what is necessary to get that signature.

B) Our shooters will indeed be better next year. They are better this year than last. Having 5 scholarship players on the court at all times will help them get easier shots also. For example- we had an 8-9 point lead on Auburn and then Sword got his 2nd foul with 10+ minutes left in the 1st half. We then began to turn the ball over and fall apart and allow Auburn to tie and then pass us. We have no bench right now and it kills us

C) Yes we have more talented players joining us in the Fall. Daniels is said to be as good as Ware. He doesnt shoot the 3 like Borchert but is a much better defender and is quicker.
NDoye will give us some more post prescence of the bench to rest Ware. We wont ever have to play Roq at the 5 next year- which kills us on defense.
Houston is going to give us a solid player at the 3 along with FTF- who should be a little better as well next year.
Ready and the other Freshman will have a year of SEC basketball under their belts and should play better next year.

Hell, we were getting beat last year by 20, 30, and 40...now we stay in games and compete for the most part- and we still arent playing with a full roster. Next year will be an improved basketball team.

It is big that we are competing this season. Play well enough for decent stretches that we know we have the ability to win. Gut check time at the Hump.

Apathy has infected the fan base and seems to be spreading. That's making it doubly tough.

[drunkernhelldawg]

It's a good thing Ray was able to predict that turnover.**

You foul in that situation. Period. It was a terrible decision and if we hadn't gotten the steal it would have looked even dumber.

I like Rick, but defending that decision is silly mane.

By the numbers you are no doubt right, but I do think its worth mentioning that games have been won with both strategies.

[dawgs]

I thought the way Ray played it was brilliant.

We got a turnover at 18.9 seconds left down 4. All we needed to do was get a shot and score within 10 seconds- but with all the people out and such we couldnt do it.

is C34 an ole miss sleeper cell? that's some serious ole miss-style spinning right there.

[TheRef]

is C34 an ole miss sleeper cell? that's some serious ole miss-style spinning right there.

Someone try the code phrases. "Boy that Italian family in the booth over there sure is quiet."

Did it work?

[Political Hack]

What? Ray won the first SEC road game he ever had last year at Georgia

that's what I get for not proof checking game announcers.