Fred Thomas & Bear Wilson both DNP

[Dawg61]

what happened here? Zero minutes for both players.

[BeardoMSU]

Moultrie Knees************************(~)

[starkvegasdawg]

Ray said it was due to matchups and not anything disciplinary. Take it for what it's worth.

[BeardoMSU]

Sounds like coach speak to me.

[fishwater99]

Ray said it was due to matchups and not anything disciplinary. Take it for what it's worth.

That's BS.

[Thrill1]

Add Tyson Cunningham too. Had been getting plenty of minutes and is at least a threat from 3.

[Dawg61]

Add Tyson Cunningham too. Had been getting plenty of minutes and is at least a threat from 3.

Yup three players get zero minutes and Bloodman gets hurt yet Moore gets 17 minutes. Hmmm something doesn't smell right here.

[Coach34]

FTF was getting an attitude adjustment "per sources"...Sources had no idea about Cunningham or Bear

[Dawg61]

FTF was getting an attitude adjustment "per sources"...Sources had no idea about Cunningham or Bear

Good it has been needed but very odd for three of them at the same time. Something went down.

[tcdog70]

That is just Ray showing Us he is in control. 61 you have been right in saying Moore needs to play. He played better than most. Davis for sure. Ray saying he needs bodies is bullshit. Bear and Moore could give him minutes. Eight schollys and Bear, Tyson and Moore that makes 11 players. What I have been saying happened yesterday any SEC player can shoot over our smurf guards anytime they want. Ray is a worse mistake than Croom, but we will keep Him and it will just be an extra year of shitty basketball before we cut His ass loose.

[chef dixon]

You guys haven't figured out by now that there is no combination of players on our current team that can be used in any way that changes our standard performance on the court?

[I seen it dawg]

That is just Ray showing Us he is in control. 61 you have been right in saying Moore needs to play. He played better than most. Davis for sure. Ray saying he needs bodies is bullshit. Bear and Moore could give him minutes. Eight schollys and Bear, Tyson and Moore that makes 11 players. What I have been saying happened yesterday any SEC player can shoot over our smurf guards anytime they want. Ray is a worse mistake than Croom, but we will keep Him and it will just be an extra year of shitty basketball before we cut His ass loose.

Uhhh no. That is just flat out wrong.

[Goat from MSU]

Was it that bad to cost us the game . Ray needs wins to keep people off his back.
FTF was getting an attitude adjustment "per sources"...Sources had no idea about Cunningham or Bear

[Goat from MSU]

you know one shooter could make the difference. Maybe Troutman is the next Darrell Wilson with out him no Final Four.
You guys haven't figured out by now that there is no combination of players on our current team that can be used in any way that changes our standard performance on the court?

[Coach34]

Was it that bad to cost us the game . Ray needs wins to keep people off his back.

Doing the right thing is not always easy

[tcdog70]

Uhhh no. That is just flat out wrong.

Nice job with the highlights. Croom at least went to a bowl game and beat Alabama. Ray can't beat his meat.Please someone please compare Ray to Cohen again, I need a good laugh . That argument is the biggest bullshit in the Ray Apologist Crowd. If we hadn't played the worst schedule in our history, we wouldn't have won five games. Flat top Fred was a pretty good shooter coming out of Highschool, now he can't throw it in the ocean. Everyone is drooling on this Daniel( can't pass algebra in two try's ) but the truth is he can't replace Borchert. Ray will get next year and should have a full roster( if he doesn't he needs to fired on the spot). But what does anyone see to make you think we will be vastly better?

[Coach34]

Nice job with the highlights. Croom at least went to a bowl game and beat Alabama. Ray can't beat his meat.Please someone please compare Ray to Cohen again, I need a good laugh . That argument is the biggest bullshit in the Ray Apologist Crowd. If we hadn't played the worst schedule in our history, we wouldn't have won five games. Flat top Fred was a pretty good shooter coming out of Highschool, now he can't throw it in the ocean. Everyone is drooling on this Daniel( can't pass algebra in two try's ) but the truth is he can't replace Borchert. Ray will get next year and should have a full roster( if he doesn't he needs to fired on the spot). But what does anyone see to make you think we will be vastly better?

Chris Stratton got lit up like a pinball machine as a Soph as we went 6-24 in the SEC- then was a 1st rounder the next season. You making these kind of judgements on young players really makes you look dumb

[Dawg61]

But what does anyone see to make you think we will be vastly better?

I do see a window for Ray to be successful with. I'll explain. In the last three games we have played better offense. Not because we learned how to shoot but because we are pushing the ball on transition and we are shooting it quicker (not milking the shot clock) resulting in lots of layups and shots around the rim. This is promising to me. The second thing I see that makes me think we can be successful is that Ray's team is above average at drawing fouls. The third thing is that we are above average at stealing the ball. So how does he win? Simple. Outwork the other team and make them the tired team by using all 13 (actually 16 with Moore, Staley and Bear) of your players and literally running the other team to death. Become a great free throw shooting team and have players that can open up space by hitting threes. Commit fully to this and we will win.

1. Fill your roster and most importantly PLAY EVERY SINGLE PLAYER EVERY GAME. 2. Run the other team to death. 3. Draw a shit ton of fouls on the other team. 4. MAKE YOUR FREE THROWS. 5. Have good enough 3point shooters to make 10 a game. 6. Play tough scrappy defense with an emphasis in causing steals and turnovers without fouling. 7. Become a good rebounding team (this is all about effort and fundamentals) it shouldn't be rocket science. If Ray fully commits to this we will win. I have no doubt. And we will win without elite talent. All of what I just said is completely moot if you do not fill your roster and play your entire roster. Remember your biggest weapon is to run the other team to death. It's a war on attrition using bodies, speed and fouls to your advantage. Ray can not win by only playing eight guys. He is saying one thing and doing another each game he does this. That's why I say it is MANDATORY that Ray fill his allotted 13 spots and PLAY his entire roster every game. Each game he doesn't just further shows me he does not get it and he can not win.

[Intramural All-American]

Did you seriously just advocate playing 16 players a game? The stupidity somehow is increasing. Every minute that 12-16 play is taking away minutes from 1-5.

There are a TOTAL of 3 D1 teams that average 10 3-pointers a game.

I would love for you to show me 5 teams that play 13 players a game. Please, do this.

[RougeDawg]

Doing the right thing is not always easy

He will be doing it somewhere besides Starkville if he keeps displaying the same type of product.

[Dawg61]

Did you seriously just advocate playing 16 players a game? The stupidity somehow is increasing. Every minute that 12-16 play is taking away minutes from 1-5.

There are a TOTAL of 3 D1 teams that average 10 3-pointers a game.

I would love for you to show me 5 teams that play 13 players a game. Please, do this.

Do your own homework. I'm not saying use all 16 in one game although I can see how I implied that. Use 13 and rest 3 and rotate who rests each game. It's a war on attrition. Run every team to death. If you use all 16 throughout the course of a season we will have the freshest legs against any team we play by the end of the year. Commit fully to this style and nobody can keep up. The fact that five teams in the entire nation don't use all 13 players every game is not a bad thing. That is a very very good thing for us. THAT IS THE WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY.

[state66]

This is hilarious listening to some people saying Ray needing bodies is bullshit. Did any of yall watch when the runs happend? I was at the game and arkansas would consistently switch out groups on the court. I watched multiple mass substitutions where they brought a whole new 5 on the court, and do you know what we did, our 5 sat there and watched them come in without us being able to substitute new groups in as well (im talking scholly guys not lets put walkons in as bodies). Lets not forget how Arky is one of the most fast paced teams in nation, which is gunna wind players. YET we stay in the game having to play a 2-3 zone the whole game cause we couldnt man up against the fast pace due to tiring and not wanting to get into foul trouble. Guys when Ray gets all 11 SCHOLARSHIP players hes gunna make a run in the SEC I promise. When you have depth it allows random players to go off on different night when starters are off like arkys random ass player did. It also helps with shooting % due to fresher players on the court. Our sole issue is depth and those of you saying shooting are wrong its depth. Fresher players off the bench is going to bring that number up, fresher players in the post is going to open up lanes and shots. Its all depth I promise and watch out next year Ray is gunna make us proud and Im excited about year 4!

[Intramural All-American]

Do your own homework. I'm not saying use all 16 in one game although I can see how I implied that. Use 13 and rest 3 and rotate who rests each game. It's a war on attrition. Run every team to death. If you use all 16 throughout the course of a season we will have the freshest legs against any team we play by the end of the year. Commit fully to this style and nobody can keep up. The fact that five teams in the entire nation don't use all 13 players every game is not a bad thing. That is a very very good thing for us. THAT IS THE WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY.

Your theory would work if we had 16 guys that were of the exact same caliber. But that's not how basketball works. We need Sword, Ware, and Ready playing a lot more minutes than the other players. When they aren't in the game we struggle mightily.

Also, Cunningham didn't play because he doesn't handle the pressure well that Arkansas was going to put on him. He's not a press breaker. As Coach34 said, Fred has a poor attitude and has been pouting so Ray was sending a message. Bear still doesn't know the system and offense well enough to play against a team as aggressive as Arkansas.

[Coach34]

Your theory would work if we had 16 guys that were of the exact same caliber. But that's not how basketball works. We need Sword, Ware, and Ready playing a lot more minutes than the other players. When they aren't in the game we struggle mightily.

Also, Cunningham didn't play because he doesn't handle the pressure well that Arkansas was going to put on him. He's not a press breaker. As Coach34 said, Fred has a poor attitude and has been pouting so Ray was sending a message. Bear still doesn't know the system and offense well enough to play against a team as aggressive as Arkansas.

thank you for a good basketball post. We arent getting many these days.

[Dawg61]

We need to recruit for this style. If Ray can't sign 13 players capable of playing 10 minutes a game he needs to go back to being an assistant. Why are you signing a player if they can't give you 10 minutes of basketball a game? If they can't DONT SIGN THAT PLAYER.

[smootness]

We need to recruit for this style. If Ray can't sign 13 players capable of playing 10 minutes a game he needs to go back to being an assistant. Why are you signing a player if they can't give you 10 minutes of basketball a game? If they can't DONT SIGN THAT PLAYER.

So in this post you want him to only sign players who are capable of giving you an average of 10 quality minutes in the SEC...yet in other posts you've essentially called for him to bring in absolutely anybody because not filling out a roster is embarrassing.

Seems like you're advocating here for him to not bring in guys who are simply roster-fillers...which is exactly what he's been doing and part of why we still don't have a full roster.

People have jumped all over Ray for signing guys like Ndoye and Daniels who couldn't play this year, saying that anybody who could actually play would be better. Yet we still have a total of 6 years coming for those guys...and if they're legitimately good players, then Ray is doing exactly what you want him to do.

[Intramural All-American]

There's a difference in being capable of playing 10 minutes and needing to play 10 minutes. Calipari signed the #9 PF in the nation last year and he is averaging 6.5 minutes per game. Does that mean Cal shouldn't have signed him? No, that means that the players ahead of him are better and need more minutes. Playing him would take away from the better players' minutes.

[Dawg61]

So in this post you want him to only sign players who are capable of giving you an average of 10 quality minutes in the SEC...yet in other posts you've essentially called for him to bring in absolutely anybody because not filling out a roster is embarrassing.

Seems like you're advocating here for him to not bring in guys who are simply roster-fillers...which is exactly what he's been doing and part of why we still don't have a full roster.

People have jumped all over Ray for signing guys like Ndoye and Daniels who couldn't play this year, saying that anybody who could actually play would be better. Yet we still have a total of 6 years coming for those guys...and if they're legitimately good players, then Ray is doing exactly what you want him to do.

I've moved on from this year. My posts earlier this year about playing Moore, Wilson and Cunningham (which I still advocate for THIS season) were for the 2013-14 season. I'm now beginning to talk about the 2014-15 season. Ray needs 13 players capable of 10 minutes a game. Of course the best players will have much more than 10 minutes a game but if he feels like any of the 13 aren't good enough for 10 minutes he needs to go get players that can. There's 200 minutes in a basketball game with five players on the court to spread around.

[Dawg61]

There's a difference in being capable of playing 10 minutes and needing to play 10 minutes. Calipari signed the #9 PF in the nation last year and he is averaging 6.5 minutes per game. Does that mean Cal shouldn't have signed him? No, that means that the players ahead of him are better and need more minutes. Playing him would take away from the better players' minutes.

We aren't Kentucky. How Kentucky plays their players has no relevance to how I think MSU should play our players. How do you beat a team of 5* players with 3* players? Get them in foul trouble or tired so that they have to put in their last five on the bench for longer than they are used to. Our players will all be used to it because it's how we play every game. Suddenly the last five on our bench become better players while their last five aren't. We will always lose vs Kentucky when we try to beat their top 5 vs our top 5. We have to find a way to get into their back 5. How do you do that? You force them to use them. We will be using all 13 players so there shouldn't be any point in the game that we have more than 2 of our back end of the bench in at the same time. But they just might if their top 8 are winded or in foul trouble. Then we have the advantage. It will work if Ray commits to the idea fully. Anything less than total committal and it won't. I'm not just giving up on Ray and saying he can't win.

[Intramural All-American]

Just answer me this. Why aren't you a D1 basketball coach? You seem to have everything figured out, and in your mind you would be successful. I'm just curious.

[Dawg61]

Just answer me this. Why aren't you a D1 basketball coach? You seem to have everything figured out, and in your mind you would be successful. I'm just curious.

If only D1 basketball coaches could post about basketball on here it'd be a pretty quiet board. I'm sorry you don't like how I post but you do read my posts and reply to them frequently so I think you enjoy discussing/arguing about basketball with me more than you'd like to admit.

[Intramural All-American]

No its just that you post your remarks as fact. Not as opinion. That's what makes you look so stupid. Because your "facts" are absolutely absurd. The fact that absolutely no one agrees with you shows that. I do enjoy when you post basketball stuff, but I also enjoy watching cats chase their tails. I enjoy both for the same reason: Neither realize that they are never going to "get it." It's makes me chuckle.

[tcdog70]

Chris Stratton got lit up like a pinball machine as a Soph as we went 6-24 in the SEC- then was a 1st rounder the next season. You making these kind of judgements on young players really makes you look dumb

Is your only form of rebuttal to go to different sports and pull out some indiscriminate person or stat with which to base some ridiculous claim you make.what the **** does Chris Stratton have to do with munchkin guards that can't defend or make a jump shot. You don't think about half the bullshit you put out makes you look dumb.all your early season predictions on Ray and this team have proven to be absolute bullshit.

[Dawg61]

No its just that you post your remarks as fact. Not as opinion. That's what makes you look so stupid. Because your "facts" are absolutely absurd. The fact that absolutely no one agrees with you shows that. I do enjoy when you post basketball stuff, but I also enjoy watching cats chase their tails. I enjoy both for the same reason: Neither realize that they are never going to "get it." It's makes me chuckle.

Ha you sound just like Brad Stevens. That doesn't shock me though since you're his female "friend" that he brought with him to this board. I'm not going to put "imo" on every one of my posts so I suggest you just understand that my posting style might appear as fact to you but it's usually just my opinion.

[CadaverDawg]

I know one thing....some of you guys must think DeRunnya is the dumbest human being alive, because when he wasn't getting more snaps in football it was because he "didn't know the offense", and when he isn't playing in bball it's because he "doesn't know the system". Not saying you're wrong, but damn, Kentucky must have the easiest system in basketball history to be able to start 5 freshmen every year. Or else they sign the smartest 5 star players every year out of high school.

I think it's funny how much that "doesn't know the system" shit is thrown around. It's pretty much a garbage excuse.

[Intramural All-American]

I hear what you are saying, but DeRunnya came into the season halfway through the season. No preseason practice learning the plays and practicing them. No playing in the non-conference. He came in completely lost, and Ray isn't going to spend the whole time reteaching everything just to accomodate him. Kentucky's teams spend the summer in preseason practicing together. You also notice that they often struggle in the early season.

There's also a lot of love for a guy that had 1 rebound in 17 minutes against LSU.

[Dawg61]

There's also a lot of love for a guy that had 1 rebound in 17 minutes against LSU.

It was obvious Bear gave the team a spark. They played better when he was in the game. Go back and watch the game and you'll see for yourself. After playing well for Ray for 17 minutes Bear gets rewarded with a DNP CD from him? That's terrible on Ray. Bear is HELPING Ray's garbage roster and he gets treated like he's a problem child outcast or something. That's bullshit! No other way around it. Ray would prefer to kick Mr. Basketball to the curb than include him. Guess Ray only needs him when Colin Borchert sets NCAA records for fouling out in 6 minutes.

[CadaverDawg]

I hear what you are saying, but DeRunnya came into the season halfway through the season. No preseason practice learning the plays and practicing them. No playing in the non-conference. He came in completely lost, and Ray isn't going to spend the whole time reteaching everything just to accomodate him. Kentucky's teams spend the summer in preseason practicing together. You also notice that they often struggle in the early season.

There's also a lot of love for a guy that had 1 rebound in 17 minutes against LSU.

I don't have "love" for DeRunnya in bball. In fact, I don't think he should even be on the team. I feel like he should have had much more balls thrown his way in football though. We waited too late in the year to get him involved.

[fishwater99]

You can't play 13 players, maybe 10 or 11 max. We don't have the players to do that.
We dont have the shooters to be a 3pt team, let's work on making layups, shots from the elbow and free throws.

[War Machine Dawg]

I don't have "love" for DeRunnya in bball. In fact, I don't think he should even be on the team. I feel like he should have had much more balls thrown his way in football though. We waited too late in the year to get him involved.

Stonehands Morrow was busy stealing his PT. Wish he'd joined Milton on the Attrition Train. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.

[Coach34]

I don't have "love" for DeRunnya in bball. In fact, I don't think he should even be on the team. I feel like he should have had much more balls thrown his way in football though. We waited too late in the year to get him involved.

It took him half the season to be comfortable with the offense

[Dawg61]

You can't play 13 players, maybe 10 or 11 max. We don't have the players to do that.
We dont have the shooters to be a 3pt team, let's work on making layups, shots from the elbow and free throws.

Maybe you missed my previous post so here it is again.


I've moved on from this year. My posts earlier this year about playing Moore, Wilson and Cunningham (which I still advocate for THIS season) were for the 2013-14 season. I'm now beginning to talk about the 2014-15 season. Ray needs 13 players capable of 10 minutes a game. Of course the best players will have much more than 10 minutes a game but if he feels like any of the 13 aren't good enough for 10 minutes he needs to go get players that can. There's 200 minutes in a basketball game with five players on the court to spread around.

[fishwater99]

I am talking about next year, we still won't have enough 3 point shooters on the team.
And its crazy to have rotation of more than 10 or 11. There is only so much practice time available.

[Dawg61]

I am talking about next year, we still won't have enough 3 point shooters on the team.
And its crazy to have rotation of more than 10 or 11. There is only so much practice time available.

Guess you've missed my 50 previous posts suggesting Ray drop his bottom 3-4 and go add 3-4 shooters before November hits again. Each player gets plenty of practice time to contribute 10 quality minutes. 10 minutes of hard nosed fast paced basketball. That's not asking for much. If a player can't do that they have no business getting a scholarship to play SEC basketball. There's thousands of players every single season that don't get that opportunity that would die for it. Why are we signing players that can't give ten minutes a game? By striving to have 13 you don't get crippled if someone transfers mid-season (Applewhite) gets kicked off (Kristers, Smith, Lewis) or refuses to play (Steele). Then we aren't stuck in this same ****ing awful hole of only 8 scholarships players ever again. Sign, suit up and play 13.

[ghostofjackie]

FTF was getting an attitude adjustment "per sources"...Sources had no idea about Cunningham or Bear

Ray is about to "attitude adjust" his way out of this job. I know he is trying to be stern and set examples, all good stuff. But lack of depth is the reason this season is a complete failure. You can only be a "Coach Carter" for so long.

[smootness]

Ray is about to "attitude adjust" his way out of this job. I know he is trying to be stern and set examples, all good stuff. But lack of depth is the reason this season is a complete failure. You can only be a "Coach Carter" for so long.

He hasn't really gone that crazy with disciplining guys, at least those who are still around. Some of the leftovers left, but this is pretty much the first time he's benched somebody for disciplinary reasons.

If you set standards, you have to stay true to them, period.

[mic]

Most of you were complaining about minutes FT was playing and how bad he is. Coach RR benches him maybe to get a message across or he broke team rules or whatever and we bitch about that saying we don't have enough depth to do this. So basically whatever decision RR makes its the wrong one...
Maybe this will light a little fire under FT and he will finish the season strong.

[Goat Holder]

I've seen this tcdog70 guy before. He fits the model for a Genespage Stans til I die supporter. My evidence:

- hates Ray with a passion (he didn't say this, but it certainly can be inferred from his posts)

- compares Ray to Croom, but then says Croom was better (sheep supported Croom to the bitter end) and throws in a win over shitty 2006/2007 Alabama as evidence (in his 3rd and 4th year, years that Ray hasn't gotten yet)

- absolutely rejects the Ray to Cohen comparisons, even though they are more similar than Croom/Ray

- goes straight to shaming when proven wrong

[tcdog70]

I've seen this tcdog70 guy before. He fits the model for a Genespage Stans til I die supporter. My evidence:

- hates Ray with a passion (he didn't say this, but it certainly can be inferred from his posts)

- compares Ray to Croom, but then says Croom was better (sheep supported Croom to the bitter end) and throws in a win over shitty 2006/2007 Alabama as evidence (in his 3rd and 4th year, years that Ray hasn't gotten yet)

- absolutely rejects the Ray to Cohen comparisons, even though they are more similar than Croom/Ray

- goes straight to shaming when proven wrong
Don't hate Ray with a passion, I hate what he has done to our basketball program. I would be fine if we come out next year and win twenty. Stansbury is gone I just want a Coach that isn't lost.

If you think Ray compares in any way to Cohen then I guess you should be somewhere holding a goat. Cohen won at Ky -a shitasstic baseball team. he was Coach of the Year in the SEC. He won at NWSate.
He was a ALL_SEC baseball player at MSU. he has recruited like a mother ****er from day 1. Croom had no HC experience just like Ray. Croom couldn't recruit to His needs--just like Ray. Croom ran off quality players rather than try to help them. Croom was hard headed and was shitty at making game time adjustments , sorta Like Ray. I said after Croom"s first three games he was over His head--I'm calling that Ray is also over his head.. i haven't shamed anyone, but I don't appreciate name calling. I could give a fat **** if you agree with Me, I won't call you any shitty names. Do you actually think that Gene's page has a monopoly on Stans Supporters? I support what Stansbury accomplished , and the fact that SEC taems with more money, better facilities ,and a History of great basketball were beaten regularly by Rick Stansbury . Arkansas has not been successful in finding a good basketball Coach. That alone should prove how difficult it is to run out and hire a WINNING basketball Coach. You might have seen Me before I've been at MSU athletic events since the 60s. Do you even go to any games? Keep on making excuses for Coach Ray and maybe you can tell Me--I told You So. Hope you can, I just want MSU basketball to be competitive again.