MSU QB discussion

[BeastMan]

http://3rdand57.wordpress.com/2013/05/03/msu-qb-position-where-it-stands-right-now/

It's pretty amazing that in year 5 of the Mullen era and we only have 2 scholarship QB's right now. TR is in a hand cast. Dak is in a boot. Steve R apparently said cord is gone today (I'm going off 2nd hand). We've got a 3star Damian Williams coming in June. We're in the Steven Bench sweepstakes.

I need a drink...

[maroonmania]

Dang, Cord's already gone and we haven't even had the draft yet? We are MState I guess.

[Big4Dawg]

Steve said it isnt true on Cord holding out for 4th-5th round money and he is willing to take as low as 10-12th.

[BeastMan]

Steve said it isnt true on Cord holding out for 4th-5th round money and he is willing to take as low as 10-12th.

If we don't get Cord, Bench becomes a much more important sweepstakes. I know Paul has stayed close to that one and feels good about it. Maybe I'm reading b/t the lines but does a big push at Bench mean the staff feels a certain way about Cord?

[fishwater99]

How is Cord already gone?

[BeastMan]

How is Cord already gone?


He's not but the stuff Steve said today isn't encouraging.

[maroonmania]

Steve said it isnt true on Cord holding out for 4th-5th round money and he is willing to take as low as 10-12th.

IF that's indeed the case, and I have no idea who Steve R. is using as a source for such a statement, then Cord just wants to play baseball period and it has NOTHING to do with the money whatsoever.

[Goat Holder]

Steve seriously does not know anything. Not because he's Rosebowl or anything funny like that. He's just not in the loop. He does not know what is going on. He's in it for himself, not MSU. Remember that.

[Goat Holder]

First of all, cut the crap with the "year 5 of the Mullen era and we only have 2 scholarship QB's" nonsense. We will have a Sr., So. and Fr. QB this fall, at a minimum, and those 3 are probably 3 of the best we've ever had at one time. That should end that corny debate. Now, if we add Sandberg, which nobody knows for sure, then we have an OUTSTANDING set of QBs. I'm not even counting Bench for now.

Why is this so hard for people to understand? Alot of teams are short-handed in the spring because they are missing ONE WHOLE CLASS OF PLAYERS. It just so happened this year that QB was one of the positions we lacked. That's really all there is to it. Quit over-thinking the situation.

[Vandownbytheriver]

Steve seriously does not know anything. Not because he's Rosebowl or anything funny like that. He's just not in the loop. He does not know what is going on. He's in it for himself, not MSU. Remember that.

To a certain extent, they all are in it for themselves. That's why they all bash the shit out of the other guy. To be in that business you have to have a bit of a god complex. You have to want people to take your word as gospel and defend you no matter what.

[BeastMan]

First of all, cut the crap with the "year 5 of the Mullen era and we only have 2 scholarship QB's" nonsense. We will have a Sr., So. and Fr. QB this fall, at a minimum, and those 3 are probably 3 of the best we've ever had at one time. That should end that corny debate. Now, if we add Sandberg, which nobody knows for sure, then we have an OUTSTANDING set of QBs. I'm not even counting Bench for now.

Why is this so hard for people to understand? Alot of teams are short-handed in the spring because they are missing ONE WHOLE CLASS OF PLAYERS. It just so happened this year that QB was one of the positions we lacked. That's really all there is to it. Quit over-thinking the situation.

Cut the crap? Right now we are in year 5 with 2 scholarship quarterbacks. I fight bs spin tooth and now but that is the reality. In the piece on my sight I give a bit more perspective and say why. That still doesn't change the fact of what it is. This may be just my opinion but 3 scholarship QB's isn't enough. Williams will be a true freshman and will in no way be ready in the fall. It's not a corny debate. It's just a fact.

[Goat Holder]

I get your point but people have to be above that crap. Parham, McCready and Yancy all get along. They all realize that at the end of the day, they need Ole Miss to be the focal point for their businesses to succeed. Big difference between them and what Rosebowl and Wardlaw do. There COULD be a co-existence between these guys if they wanted. Rosebowl is in freaking Baton Rouge, what the hell does he know about what goes on in Starkville? Nothing. I've broken recruiting news on that board many times, to have him delete it, then claim it as his own. And I'm just some random dude who hears things through a few sources here and there. He gets paid to deliver information.

[BeastMan]

Also Goat, there's a difference between being short in the spring and canceling a practice because your 1 healthy QB is sick. That is frightening

[Will James]

as low as 10-12th.

That would be...... dumb. Hell just come to State for baseball and take better money in a few years

[Goat Holder]

I understand your viewpoint but I think it's just too absolute. Look I will freely admit sometimes that it's hard for me to put myself in others' shoes and see their side of the coin. In this case, I just can't see it any other way. Yes, it's factual that we have 2 QBs on the roster now, but in 3 months we have 3, possibly 4. Is the QB situation still a train-wreck? No way, man. Like I said before, many teams are hamstrung in spring practice for various reasons.

Our QB recruiting hasn't been great, but it's so much better than it has been in our past. Just like Tyler Russell hasn't been great, but he's basically the best we've ever had. I just don't see why our fans can't appreciate what we have. It baffles me honestly. That doesn't mean we can't make improvement, but geez we have to also acknowledge the improvement we've already made.

We're simply not going to stock pile QBs at MSU until we start establishing more of a rapport with them.

[BeastMan]

I get your point but people have to be above that crap. Parham, McCready and Yancy all get along. They all realize that at the end of the day, they need Ole Miss to be the focal point for their businesses to succeed. Big difference between them and what Rosebowl and Wardlaw do. There COULD be a co-existence between these guys if they wanted. Rosebowl is in freaking Baton Rouge, what the hell does he know about what goes on in Starkville? Nothing. I've broken recruiting news on that board many times, to have him delete it, then claim it as his own. And I'm just some random dude who hears things through a few sources here and there. He gets paid to deliver information.

I see your point on the OM media guys but I'm not sure how that applies to me. I'm not breaking any news and I don't not get along with other MSU media, mainly because I'm not competition. I just have a hobby. You should know how hard I push on boards to discredit spin but I also am not above pointing out a fact about MSU if it is less than flattering. We very well could catch some breaks and have the best 5 QB's we've ever had on campus but that doesn't change what right now is

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Steve has terrible sources then. He is a moron

[Vandownbytheriver]

I get your point but people have to be above that crap. Parham, McCready and Yancy all get along. They all realize that at the end of the day, they need Ole Miss to be the focal point for their businesses to succeed. Big difference between them and what Rosebowl and Wardlaw do. There COULD be a co-existence between these guys if they wanted. Rosebowl is in freaking Baton Rouge, what the hell does he know about what goes on in Starkville? Nothing. I've broken recruiting news on that board many times, to have him delete it, then claim it as his own. And I'm just some random dude who hears things through a few sources here and there. He gets paid to deliver information.

I agree there, but for some reason our guys can't all get along. It's more about who broke what. And I know all about the breaking something and having someone take credit for it. It happens on every board. Why do you think they start those, thank y'all for everything threads? It's so the members of their message board church can praise them to no end. I tried doing the recruiting thing, but it always turned into being more about a writer than the player. Last year I was the first guy on any network to interview several Mississippi kids for the ULL site and a month later two different 247 sites "discovered" kids at camp that already had Scout articles on the ULL site. I also got to go help at Steve's camp once and it was an all about Steve thing rather than the kids.

[Goat Holder]

Yeah. Egos will break a man. People just don't get it, I guess.

I quit paying for recruiting years ago. The particular story I broke on the board was when Chris Garrett dropped us for LSU. A friend of mine saw him in Reed's in Tupelo and the store owner said, "He was just talking to Les Miles and committed to him".

Nobody believed me until a day or two later when it hit the sites.

[FlabLoser]

Dan has practically only been 2 deep at QB for as long as he's been here. And I have complained about that every year.

[Goat Holder]

Dan has practically only been 2 deep at QB for as long as he's been here. And I have complained about that every year.

2009: Lee, Relf, Russell
2010: Relf, Russell, Favre
2011: Relf, Russell, Favre
2012: Russell, Prescott, Golden
2013: Russell, Prescott, Williams

Only year you can truly say that about is 2012. But even then, we were supposed to have Scheussler on the roster. Golden was an emergency replacement who theoretically SHOULD again be on the team this year.

I think these accusations are just a bit harsh. My opinion. We aren't QB U.

[CadaverDawg]

That would be...... dumb. Hell just come to State for baseball and take better money in a few years

This^^ is the first thing that came to my mind as well. If he "just wants to play baseball", then come play ball at MSU and improve draft stock in the process.

Steve Robertson. Is. A. ****ing. Clown. I have nothing personal against the guy, but like Goat said, he is in it for himself and ONLY for himself. He hurts us far more than he helps us, and his information is straight bullshit 9 times out of 10. I completely lost respect for him last year throughout the recruiting process the way he did the Alexander situation, and the fact that he waffled back and forth about as much as we all did on SPS about all of the per recruiting crap. And he gets paid for his BullShit.

I appreciate knowing what he's spewing so it can be sifted through for a shred of truth....but NEVER will I believe a word that clown says again. As a matter of fact, I truly feel better about our chances with Cord now that I heard Steve said that.

In my eyes, he's no better than Talty or anyone else that passes on message board rumors as "reporting". Unless he spoke directly to Cord or his Parents, he is likely full of garbage.

Good write-up, BeastMan.

[msstate7]

2009: Lee, Relf, Russell
2010: Relf, Russell, Favre
2011: Relf, Russell, Favre
2012: Russell, Prescott, Golden
2013: Russell, Prescott, Williams

Only year you can truly say that about is 2012. But even then, we were supposed to have Scheussler on the roster. Golden was an emergency replacement who theoretically SHOULD again be on the team this year.

I think these accusations are just a bit harsh. My opinion. We aren't QB U.

We probably couldve had okorn this year had we left Dobbs alone. Two years ago we went hard after liggins (non qualifier) and missed. Our best qb signee seems to wanna play baseball. Our qb recruiting has been a train wreck

[Homedawg]

We probably couldve had okorn this year had we left Dobbs alone. Two years ago we went hard after liggins (non qualifier) and missed. Our best qb signee seems to wanna play baseball. Our qb recruiting has been a train wreck

Yes we went after liggins. And yes we told him he was going to play QB. However, he was never going to play QB. Had members of the staff on both sides of the ball tell me he was a de, for now. If he kept eating he was a OL. For once Dan told a kid what they wanted to hear, but don't believe for two seconds Mullen ever thought liggins was playing QB. Just not the case.

[CadaverDawg]

We probably couldve had okorn this year had we left Dobbs alone. Two years ago we went hard after liggins (non qualifier) and missed. Our best qb signee seems to wanna play baseball. Our qb recruiting has been a train wreck

I think one of our biggest issues is allowing a high caliber QB to drag us along. Would we love to have a 4 or 5 star QB? Of course. But you can't jeopardize the position on one that is holding out on you. Especially if the guy has several other offers that are better than us or equal to us.

Eventually we will be able to take more chances probably...but until we have some sustained success at QB, we have to prove that we can develop a QB into a NFL prospect. We will always be shunned for a better QB program until we earn that signature. Can we still get lucky and land a good one like Cord? Yes, but baggage will likely come with it for a while(like MLB). We shouldn't pass up on a high 3 star like OKorn, so that a 4 star like Dobbs can sift through tons of better or equal programs and see if he will have to end up choosing MSU. Just tell Dobbs we are going to need a commitment or we're going hard after another guy, and then do it. He either chooses to be a Dawg or we move on. No dragging it out, at least not yet. Other positions don't have to be that way, but QB does right now in my opinion.

[msstate7]

Yes we went after liggins. And yes we told him he was going to play QB. However, he was never going to play QB. Had members of the staff on both sides of the ball tell me he was a de, for now. If he kept eating he was a OL. For once Dan told a kid what they wanted to hear, but don't believe for two seconds Mullen ever thought liggins was playing QB. Just not the case.

So who was the qb we were after? Wallace? Looking back I wish we got him more so ole miss wouldn't have him. Ole miss wouldn't have sniffed a bowl last year without him

[Todd4State]

Steve said it isnt true on Cord holding out for 4th-5th round money and he is willing to take as low as 10-12th.

Someone needs to tell that douchebag that 10-12th round money is the SAME as 40th round money based on the slotting system.

[Bo Darville]

I think one of our biggest issues is allowing a high caliber QB to drag us along.

I agree. Favre and Schuessler were signed after our primary targets went elsewhere. However, it was so late in the game, that all the good guys were gone. It is a tough situation to be in.

QB recruiting is tricky because nobody studies the depth chart like a quarterback. Other positions don't worry about it because coaches will rotate guys and play multiple people. Example: the second string defensive tackle or linebacker at Alabama takes meaningful snaps EVERY game. The second string quarterback NEVER does. He only gets to play in blowouts or due to injury. Will Saban play the second string linebacker in the first quarter of a 7-7 game against LSU? Of course he will. Will he play the second string quarterback in the first quarter of a 7-7 game against LSU? NEVER.

[engie]

Steve being Steve and thus full of it. Purporting a panic to drive traffic -- nothing new from that crew.

I'm still 80+% sure Cord is here in the summer based on info directly from people that would know on his side that have/had absolutely no reason to lie to me

[Bo Darville]

Someone needs to tell that douchebag that 10-12th round money is the SAME as 40th round money based on the slotting system.

To be fair, I think Rosebowl is being misquoted. I went through the threads and I can't see where Rosebowl said exactly what is attributed to him. I could be wrong, because I did not check every thread and don't go there often. Here is the closest I found:

I was told earlier this evening that talk of him holding out for 3rd or 4th round money is not accurate. He says that they have not come up with a number, but I am told he may be willing to sign as late as the 10th round.

It cleary states that they do not have a money figure (hence no such thing as 10-12th round money in Cord's head). It says they might sign as late as the 10th round. Now Todd you can answer this because I know the draft changed. Does every pick have to slot down the board? Meaning does the 98th pick have to make more than the 99th, who makes more than the 100th, who makes more than the 101st, and so on? I know they changed the rules.

I know you used to be able to pay an 8th round pick more than a 3rd round pick if you chose to do so.

[engie]

That is simply Cord's family projecting signability in attempt to get his true value in the draft. Playing it smart anotherwords -- keeping in mind his dad and uncle both played professional baseball and know exactly how the "game" works...

[gravedigger]

http://3rdand57.wordpress.coom/2013/05/03/msu-qb-position-where-it-stands-right-now/

It's pretty amazing that in year 5 of the Mullen era and we only have 2 scholarship QB's right now. TR is in a hand cast. Dak is in a boot. Steve R apparently said cord is gone today (I'm going off 2nd hand). We've got a 3star Damian Williams coming in June. We're in the Steven Bench sweepstakes.

I need a drink...

We have two potential starters in temporary casts that will not affect their ability to play in the fall.

Is all this hand wringing over the quality of our 3rd string kid? Jeez. That is a bit trivial to get drunk about but hell, I'm gettin drunk tonight because its Friday. So there's that...

[Todd4State]

To be fair, I think Rosebowl is being misquoted. I went through the threads and I can't see where Rosebowl said exactly what is attributed to him. I could be wrong, because I did not check every thread and don't go there often. Here is the closest I found:

I was told earlier this evening that talk of him holding out for 3rd or 4th round money is not accurate. He says that they have not come up with a number, but I am told he may be willing to sign as late as the 10th round.

It cleary states that they do not have a money figure (hence no such thing as 10-12th round money in Cord's head). It says they might sign as late as the 10th round. Now Todd you can answer this because I know the draft changed. Does every pick have to slot down the board? Meaning does the 98th pick have to make more than the 99th, who makes more than the 100th, who makes more than the 101st, and so on? I know they changed the rules.

I know you used to be able to pay an 8th round pick more than a 3rd round pick if you chose to do so.

No, the 98th pick doesn't necessarily have to make more than the 100th pick. That's where it gets complicated.

Every team is allotted a certain amount to spend on the first ten rounds. A player and team can agree to sign to a bonus that is less than their slot, and if that happens and the team has money left over, they can apply it to a lower pick if they choose to do so. That's what happened with Anthony Alford and the Blue Jays last year. He was drafted in the third round, but because they had money left over, they were able to go above slot and sign him. A team can also choose to pay more than their allotted amount- but they are going to be taxed heavily.

I think the slots are really basically just a "suggested" amount to show a team how they might spend their money, which is useful in negotiations.

[DownwardDawg]

Steve said it isnt true on Cord holding out for 4th-5th round money and he is willing to take as low as 10-12th.

If Steve said that, then Cord will be here in the fall!!!! Hot damn!!!!

[sandwolf]

Parham, McCready and Yancy all get along. They all realize that at the end of the day, they need Ole Miss to be the focal point for their businesses to succeed. Big difference between them and what Rosebowl and Wardlaw do. There COULD be a co-existence between these guys if they wanted.

I can't speak for what goes on behind the scenes, but I have been a member of that board for a long time, and I have never heard Steve even mention anyone else that covers MSU. Now he will take shots at McCready and Yancy every now and then, but I have never seen him say anything derogatory about another MSU guy.

[Goat Holder]

I have never heard Steve even mention anyone else that covers MSU

Paul Jones laughs at this statement.

Rosebowl tried to ruin MSU during the Byron Devinner shit. Not that it mattered, but he damn sure tried. He wasn't letting anyone get in the way of his terrible ego.

[Pollodawg]

If Cord is willing to take basically any amount of money, he wants to play baseball as opposed to football anyway. Nothing we could have done about that.

[CadaverDawg]

If Cord is willing to take basically any amount of money, he wants to play baseball as opposed to football anyway. Nothing we could have done about that.

We could have Not gone after him if he would have told us that shit. And then we look far more attractive to guys like Dobbs and O'Korn.

But again, I don't believe it's true. I think Cord will play football at MSU.

[Pollodawg]

We could have Not gone after him if he would have told us that shit. And then we look far more attractive to guys like Dobbs and O'Korn.

But again, I don't believe it's true. I think Cord will play football at MSU.

I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, it's hard to pass on a kid that plays like Cord does, even if there was a chance he went MLB, we had to take it, and we did. Now, we just have to wait and see.

[sandwolf]

Paul Jones laughs at this statement.

Rosebowl tried to ruin MSU during the Byron Devinner shit. Not that it mattered, but he damn sure tried. He wasn't letting anyone get in the way of his terrible ego.

I'm not saying it didn't happen.......I just don't remember it. But it really wouldn't surprise me during the whole Devinner debacle. They made some really poor judgement calls during that whole deal. But you made it sound like they spend a lot of time bashing each other......I am just saying that that isn't the case with Steve.

[Pollodawg]

And, speaking of QBs, if we land this Bench kid, is there any real shot that he pushes Dak for playing time? In this conference, I understand that back ups are important and even vital in some cases, but if you get down to your third string QB, I'm pretty sure you're toast regardless.

[msstate7]

And, speaking of QBs, if we land this Bench kid, is there any real shot that he pushes Dak for playing time? In this conference, I understand that back ups are important and even vital in some cases, but if you get down to your third string QB, I'm pretty sure you're toast regardless.

Bench will have to learn offense so I doubt he passes dak.

[Coach34]

Paul Jones laughs at this statement.

Rosebowl tried to ruin MSU during the Byron Devinner shit. Not that it mattered, but he damn sure tried. He wasn't letting anyone get in the way of his terrible ego.


I'm no fan of Goat's- but that statement is Gospel. Steve, Jean, and Wardlaw were Devinner's big buddies as he tried to bring MSU down. Devinner was being bankrolled by Confederate money- and these assclowns jumped aboard to help. How they can still be in business as an MSU site is baffling to me, and frankly- it's embarrassing

[Coach34]

But again, I don't believe it's true. I think Cord will play football at MSU.

I did at first, but now as the draft nears- I think it's 25% he plays for us. I have no inside info- just looking from the outside in

[msstate7]

I did at first, but now as the draft nears- I think it's 25% he plays for us. I have no inside info- just looking from the outside in

I do too. He's from a family of baseball players and I think baseball is his love. I'm wrong ALL the time though and I hope I'm wrong on this.

[Dawgface]

Maybe Damian Williams will be a surprise. Seems like schools like USM finds diamond in the rough QB's from time to time, maybe he will be ours. Neb and KS offered him scholly's, was he being recruited for the QB position at those 2 schools?

[DownwardDawg]

Maybe Damian Williams will be a surprise. Seems like schools like USM finds diamond in the rough QB's from time to time, maybe he will be ours. Neb and KS offered him scholly's, was he being recruited for the QB position at those 2 schools?

This is what I'm hoping too. I see QB's all the time for these smaller schools that are solid players and better than most of the QB's we've had in years.

[Bo Darville]

No, the 98th pick doesn't necessarily have to make more than the 100th pick. That's where it gets complicated.

Every team is allotted a certain amount to spend on the first ten rounds. A player and team can agree to sign to a bonus that is less than their slot, and if that happens and the team has money left over, they can apply it to a lower pick if they choose to do so. That's what happened with Anthony Alford and the Blue Jays last year. He was drafted in the third round, but because they had money left over, they were able to go above slot and sign him. A team can also choose to pay more than their allotted amount- but they are going to be taxed heavily.

I think the slots are really basically just a "suggested" amount to show a team how they might spend their money, which is useful in negotiations.

That's kinda what I thought, but I knew you would know much more than I would.

I'm no fan of Rosebowl's, but this does prove he is being misquoted. It is fine for folks to call him out when he is wrong, but they shouldn't put words in his mouth that he didn't say, then claim he said them and they were false.

[maroonmania]

And, speaking of QBs, if we land this Bench kid, is there any real shot that he pushes Dak for playing time? In this conference, I understand that back ups are important and even vital in some cases, but if you get down to your third string QB, I'm pretty sure you're toast regardless.

That's really not the way to look at it. You really need 3 QBs ready to go into a season. I say that because if you lose ONE of those for the year early on then your 3rd string guy automatically becomes your primary backup. And sometimes you just need your backup to go in for a series even if your starter gets dinged a little and its not that serious. I don't want to throw in the towel just because you get an injury or two at the QB position. In fact the ONLY year Croom had a team make a bowl game it was done with a 3rd string QB. Henig and Riddell both went down for the year in 07 and Carroll ended up playing most of the year as the starter. He was either a true of RS freshman though I think he was a true freshman and our offense stunk (as usual under Croom) but we did well enough to get to and win the Liberty Bowl. People can defend Mullen all they want but he definitely DESERVES criticism for his QB recruiting. Russell was a Croom holdover, so the only QB that is currently on the team that Mullen has recruited and signed as a primary target is Prescott. Not counting Russell's class that's ONE QB in three entire recruiting classes for a coach with a reputation and history of developing QBs. We should be able to find at least one 3+ star type QB recruit that wants to play in Mullen's system in the SEC EVERY YEAR. And yes some guys left (Favre, Schuessler and Golden) but they were all late signee fall back plans anyway that had essentially no other offers. That is not the type guys we should have to resort to signing. If we can get both Sandberg and Williams to campus we will be in reasonable shape but if Cord goes MLB we are still very thin. And yes, we were that thin with Croom, but WHO in the heck would really want to play QB under Croom (no offense Tyler)?