Question for the Rick Ray fans

[SouthMsDawg]

If he is supposedly such a great teacher of the game and developer of talent, why is our shooting percentage this year sooo bad? Why has Gavin Ware and Fred Thomas' play gotten worse?

Honestly the only 2 players on our team who have improved are Sword (who still can't shoot a lick) and Bloodman (hardest playing kid on our team gets the most out of what he has).

I have been giving Ray a chance but after last night there isn't much to say. We could very likely have a 12 game losing streak going into the South Carolina home game the last sat of the regular season.

Im not saying he needs to go, just wondering when and how we will ever turn the corner, especially since we dont have any top 4 star type recruits coming in next year.

[Coach34]

If he is supposedly such a great teacher of the game and developer of talent, why is our shooting percentage this year sooo bad? Why has Gavin Ware and Fred Thomas' play gotten worse? .

2014 Ware: 10.5 PPG...7.6 Rebs...59.8 % from field...63.6 FT
2013 Ware: 8.4 PPG... 6.4 Rebs...54.2% from field...56.2 FT

2014 Thomas: 8,4 PPG...3.1 Rebs...34.4% from field...29.4% from 3
2013 Thomas: 9.7 PPG....3.5 Rebs...32.8% from field...23.8% from 3


Why are you lying about Ware and Thomas?

[Coach34]

2014 Team shooting- 44.1% from field....65% from FT....29.9% from 3
2013 Team shooting- 40.1% from field...65% from FT...28.4% from 3 (and that was with Jalen Steele shooting 3's last year)

[SouthMsDawg]

2014 Ware: 10.5 PPG...7.6 Rebs...59.8 % from field...63.6 FT
2013 Ware: 8.4 PPG... 6.4 Rebs...54.2% from field...56.2 FT

2014 Thomas: 8,4 PPG...3.1 Rebs...34.4% from field...29.4% from 3
2013 Thomas: 9.7 PPG....3.5 Rebs...32.8% from field...23.8% from 3


Why are you lying about Ware and Thomas?

Coach you may enjoy watching what was on the court last night, but I don't.

The fact remains our fans aren't very happy about performances like last night by our basketball team as much as you try to spin it.

EVERYBODY and i mean EVERYBODY has been winning at home and we had a very winable game last night and got run off our own floor.

If anybody thinks that Thomas is better this year as opposed to last they are crazy, hes scared shitless to shoot the ball half of the time.

Ware has yet to expand his game outside of the paint he posts hard but can only score when he gets in the paint, his post moves lack and he has yet to show his ability to face up and knock down a 12-15 foot jumper.

Jacolby Davis has been a HUGE disappointment.

The fact remains we could very likely have a 12 game losing streak going into the South Carolina game. Barry Booker said it last week and I chuckled at it saying no way we lose to Georgia at home but boy was I wrong.

By the way this is the same Georgia team minus an NBA 1st round pick that we beat at Athens last year.


Keep on spinning Coach, last night was the WORST MSU home loss I can remember in recent memory.

[SouthMsDawg]

2014 Team shooting- 44.1% from field....65% from FT....29.9% from 3
2013 Team shooting- 40.1% from field...65% from FT...28.4% from 3 (and that was with Jalen Steele shooting 3's last year)

FG shooting 11th in the SEC
FT shooting 13th in the SEC
3pt shooting 14th in the SEC

Hey but in your eyes thats REAL IMPROVEMENT

[Coach34]

I just pointed out that both players had indeed improved. Sorry if that hurts your feelings that you were just flat out wrong on both of them

[smootness]

FG shooting 11th in the SEC
FT shooting 13th in the SEC
3pt shooting 14th in the SEC

Hey but in your eyes thats REAL IMPROVEMENT

Well, if you're discussing improvement, the question is not where we stand in the SEC, it's whether or not we have improved....and we have. That is a fact, it can't be disputed.

You may believe we haven't improved enough, and that's fine, but when your players stay the same, you're never going to see huge jumps in shooting %, and it has nothing to do with coaching.

Why are we not all 'Rick Ray fans'? Every Mississippi State fan should be a Rick Ray fan. That doesn't mean you believe he is the man for the job, but everyone should be supporting him and hoping he excels.

Anyone who believed guys like Trivante Bloodman and Roquez Johnson were suddenly going to become all-SEC players, or that we could move from a really bad team to a good one in one year purely on 'coaching' was delusional to begin with. This is taking the time that everyone knew it would take.

[quickstrike2]

Well, if you're discussing improvement, the question is not where we stand in the SEC, it's whether or not we have improved....and we have. That is a fact, it can't be disputed.

You may believe we haven't improved enough, and that's fine, but when your players stay the same, you're never going to see huge jumps in shooting %, and it has nothing to do with coaching.

Why are we not all 'Rick Ray fans'? Every Mississippi State fan should be a Rick Ray fan. That doesn't mean you believe he is the man for the job, but everyone should be supporting him and hoping he excels.

Anyone who believed guys like Trivante Bloodman and Roquez Johnson were suddenly going to become all-SEC players, or that we could move from a really bad team to a good one in one year purely on 'coaching' was delusional to begin with. This is taking the time that everyone knew it would take.

I agree with this. Rick Ray is not going to improve a players shooting tremendously, nor is any other coach in my opinion.

We need to support Rick Ray as our coach. Like you say, people may not feel he was the right hire for the job, but regardless he's our coach and he needs time. My requirement for him in year 3 would be to get a full roster, i am already tired of hearing that. In year 3, we need a full roster of players.

My problem is with the hire, not the job Ray is doing. Stans had to go, it was time. However, hiring a first year coach to a program that you are about to nuke and start over was a bad decision. Also, he had no ties to Mississippi or the SEC, and that has got to be hurting is recruiting.

[rabbitthedawg]

Coach...looks as if you have your hands full on this one. Not criticizing you...just stating what appears to be fact.

[SouthMsDawg]

I don't dislike Ray at all, but as of right now he's really had the team ill prepared in this current 6 game losing streak. We played good and hard vs Florida but since then we haven't seemed to have clicked and have been hard to watch offensively. Almost to the point our guys are afraid to shoot the ball and all we look to do is either get Chicken to drive to the goal in hope of getting a foul or trying to post up Ware in the paint.

I have turned off more MSU basketball games this year in the 2nd half this year than I have in my life due to us playing so bad.

I may hurt some people's feelings on here, but USM's hire of Donnie Tyndall look like a homerun hire. I said the entire time we were looking for a coach it would be a great hire if we hired a good up and coming head coach from a mid-major conference and we almost did in Bryce Drew.

[Irondawg]

Here's the problem with recruiting in general. The southeast is the Sahara desert of basketball prospects. There are a few here and there but there aren't many.

MSU, Georgia, Auburn, Bama, Arkansas, Tennessee, vandy, LSU are all pretty bad. OM isn't "good" but is by comparison. Why? The overall talent base is terrible and the high school/AAU coaching is terrible. There is but one player from the above team in the nba mock and that's Johnny obraynt projected late 2nd

If want rapid improvement we either have to hit on a few guys like summers or go into the NE and Midwest to find some guys

[Irondawg]

But look how Tyndall is doing it. Go look at their roster and you'll see it's with out of state juco guys. Tough to always bat a high % there

[Goat from MSU]

The hire was the problem .We should have been prepare to pony up ,Coach wanted Marshall or Smart .Drew would have been a good one . Nevermind baseball is coming and this shit will fade away until next year.
I don't dislike Ray at all, but as of right now he's really had the team ill prepared in this current 6 game losing streak. We played good and hard vs Florida but since then we haven't seemed to have clicked and have been hard to watch offensively. Almost to the point our guys are afraid to shoot the ball and all we look to do is either get Chicken to drive to the goal in hope of getting a foul or trying to post up Ware in the paint.

I have turned off more MSU basketball games this year in the 2nd half this year than I have in my life due to us playing so bad.

I may hurt some people's feelings on here, but USM's hire of Donnie Tyndall look like a homerun hire. I said the entire time we were looking for a coach it would be a great hire if we hired a good up and coming head coach from a mid-major conference and we almost did in Bryce Drew.

[SouthMsDawg]

The hire was the problem .We should have been prepare to pony up ,Coach wanted Marshall or Smart .Drew would have been a good one . Nevermind baseball is coming and this shit will fade away until next year.


Thats the main reason I have been quiet bc I was giving Ray full support through the start of baseball season and here we are and our team is in the midst of a tailspin. Thank the lord for MSU baseball and Dudy Noble.

[defiantdog]

Duke should have fired this guy for his first three seasons as well huh? I mean look at this record.... awful.

1980–81 Duke 17–13 6–8 T–5th
1981–82 Duke 10–17 4–10 T–6th
1982–83 Duke 11–17 3–11 7th

Oh wait, that's coach K!

[Political Hack]

If he is supposedly such a great teacher of the game and developer of talent, why is our shooting percentage this year sooo bad? Why has Gavin Ware and Fred Thomas' play gotten worse?

Honestly the only 2 players on our team who have improved are Sword (who still can't shoot a lick) and Bloodman (hardest playing kid on our team gets the most out of what he has).

I have been giving Ray a chance but after last night there isn't much to say. We could very likely have a 12 game losing streak going into the South Carolina home game the last sat of the regular season.

Im not saying he needs to go, just wondering when and how we will ever turn the corner, especially since we dont have any top 4 star type recruits coming in next year.

the South did rise again... welcome to the board hombre.

[tcdog70]

I just pointed out that both players had indeed improved. Sorry if that hurts your feelings that you were just flat out wrong on both of them

this season ain't over yet, they could be worse at the end. Also their stats should be better with shitty teams we have played. how about figure SEC games only. then you have apples to apples. if a Soph. doesn't have better stats than he did as a Freshman you should cut Him.

[dawgs]

2014 Ware: 10.5 PPG...7.6 Rebs...59.8 % from field...63.6 FT
2013 Ware: 8.4 PPG... 6.4 Rebs...54.2% from field...56.2 FT

2014 Thomas: 8,4 PPG...3.1 Rebs...34.4% from field...29.4% from 3
2013 Thomas: 9.7 PPG....3.5 Rebs...32.8% from field...23.8% from 3


Why are you lying about Ware and Thomas?

::fails to see how those numbers show improvement from thomas::

[Coach34]

this season ain't over yet, they could be worse at the end. Also their stats should be better with shitty teams we have played. how about figure SEC games only. then you have apples to apples. if a Soph. doesn't have better stats than he did as a Freshman you should cut Him.

We've also played Kentucky twice this year when we only played them once last year- plus we played SC twice last year- once this year. The seasons are what they are and the guys are definitely improved over last year. If you cant see it, I cant help ya

[mic]

this season ain't over yet, they could be worse at the end. Also their stats should be better with shitty teams we have played. how about figure SEC games only. then you have apples to apples. if a Soph. doesn't have better stats than he did as a Freshman you should cut Him.

That last sentence may be the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

[smootness]

That last sentence may be the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Haha thank you, glad I wasn't the only one.

[Intramural All-American]

this season ain't over yet, they could be worse at the end. Also their stats should be better with shitty teams we have played. how about figure SEC games only. then you have apples to apples. if a Soph. doesn't have better stats than he did as a Freshman you should cut Him.

I guess Barry Stewart would have gotten the ax. Good call bud.


I'd say Rocquez has improved, as well. Also, we were not unprepared to play in this 6 game losing streak. We played very well against both Florida and Kentucky. We were tied at the half at A&M, losing by 1 at the half against UGA, lost by 6 at Vandy, and we were very unprepared against Ole Miss. So 1 out of 6 games we were unprepared. 2 of the 6 may have been Ray's 2 best games as a coach, 2 of the six we ran out of gas in the second half, and the other game we lost by 6 in Nashville.

[Raytoraid83]

Being tied at the half against A&M and down 1 against UGA and losing both those games by 20 shows we were unprepared second half.

[TheDogFather]

We need to support Rick Ray as our coach.

Why do we "need" to support Rick Ray as our coach?

Poor performance. Not enough wins. No sniffing of postseason. Questionable decisions.

No other coach has gotten a pass.

[Intramural All-American]

No, it shows we have no depth and ran out of gas. We started jacking up 3s last night in desperation and that made the score worse. You get prepared for a game, not for each half. If you say we didn't make adjustments, I'm fine by that. But to say we weren't prepared going into those games is just flat wrong.

[tcdog70]

That last sentence may be the stupidest thing I have ever heard.


If a player is worse as a Soph. Than He was as a freshman then maybe He has peaked. you should be vastly improved as a player after a year with college Coaching than straight out of High School. What is stupid about that. If you have not improved then you must not be Coachable or you are getting shitty coaching.

[Intramural All-American]

If a player is worse as a Soph. Than He was as a freshman then maybe He has peaked. you should be vastly improved as a player after a year with college Coaching than straight out of High School. What is stupid about that. If you have not improved then you must not be Coachable or you are getting shitty coaching.

Barry Stewart didn't get better. He was obviously coachable, so that must mean the latter then right? Well, I'm glad we put the whole Stansbury coaching issue to bed with that one. Thanks, TC!

[Coach34]

If a player is worse as a Soph. Than He was as a freshman then maybe He has peaked. you should be vastly improved as a player after a year with college Coaching than straight out of High School. What is stupid about that. If you have not improved then you must not be Coachable or you are getting shitty coaching.

Barry Stewart Freshman 40% from field...3-ball 39.1%...FT 76.6%
Barry Stewart Soph 38.3% from field...3-ball 33%...FT 69.6%

Congrats John Wooden- you just cut Barry Stewart...was he not coachable or was it shitty coaching?

[BullDog]

Coach you may enjoy watching what was on the court last night, but I don't.

The fact remains our fans aren't very happy about performances like last night by our basketball team as much as you try to spin it.

EVERYBODY and i mean EVERYBODY has been winning at home and we had a very winable game last night and got run off our own floor.

If anybody thinks that Thomas is better this year as opposed to last they are crazy, hes scared shitless to shoot the ball half of the time.

Ware has yet to expand his game outside of the paint he posts hard but can only score when he gets in the paint, his post moves lack and he has yet to show his ability to face up and knock down a 12-15 foot jumper.

Jacolby Davis has been a HUGE disappointment.

The fact remains we could very likely have a 12 game losing streak going into the South Carolina game. Barry Booker said it last week and I chuckled at it saying no way we lose to Georgia at home but boy was I wrong.

By the way this is the same Georgia team minus an NBA 1st round pick that we beat at Athens last year.


Keep on spinning Coach, last night was the WORST MSU home loss I can remember in recent memory.

I did not read all of your post. Can't stomach ignorance. But did read fans up to "aren't happy". I'm slow to post because, until you've played for 3 different college coaches, won a championship, and then worked as a player, doing coaching camps for Dean Smith it's hard for me to expect a typical college fan to understand what I have an extraordinarily high convection for. COACH RAY KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING! My credentials by no means should sway anybodies opinion, LOL. Just know, I did not go to or play for MSU, and I'm a fan entirely because of the coaches at state. Both Mullen and Ray. Yes I watched Sword throw a pass to the hotdog vendor. Yes, I see on a regular Basis Fred throw 3s into the first base dugout. Both sophomores. That will change and don't be surprised if we have a top 5 defense in the nation next year. I guess my main point is that MSU in the last 20 years has not had a coach that taught real basketball. Now they do and it soon will tell.

[Raytoraid83]

I did not read all of your post. Can't stomach ignorance. But did read fans up to "aren't happy". I'm slow to post because, until you've played for 3 different college coaches, won a championship, and then worked as a player, doing coaching camps for Dean Smith it's hard for me to expect a typical college fan to understand what I have an extraordinarily high convection for. COACH RAY KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING! My credentials by no means should sway anybodies opinion, LOL. Just know, I did not go to or play for MSU, and I'm a fan entirely because of the coaches at state. Both Mullen and Ray. Yes I watched Sword throw a pass to the hotdog vendor. Yes, I see on a regular Basis Fred throw 3s into the first base dugout. Both sophomores. That will change and don't be surprised if we have a top 5 defense in the nation next year. I guess my main point is that MSU in the last 20 years has not had a coach that taught real basketball. Now they do and it soon will tell.

Hey Mr. Stricklin good job getting W. Carolina this weekend. Would've sucked having a weekend home series canceled.

[Coach34]

I guess my main point is that MSU in the last 20 years has not had a coach that taught real basketball.

Easy chief...Richard Williams was as good of a man defense coach as you will find. Now his offensive acumen wasnt extraordinary by any means- but he did a solid job when we had Darryl Wilson.

Glad to have you on board posting. We need a few more intelligent basketball posters

[Schultzy]

Again, the man did not have enough players on the roster to conduct a live basketball scrimmage his first year. Any reasonable person should've known the first two years would be very difficult.

If he can get some scorers in here he will succeed. But it's stupid to think that we should be back to normal yet as a program.

[TheDogFather]

If he can get some scorers in here he will succeed.

And this gem of a prediction is based on.....? ....all of the success he's had at other programs when he had scorers?

[Schultzy]

Watching them play for the last two seasons. I don't base opinions on one bad game, or one good game for that matter.

The roster he inherited was not a good one, you know that. You can't fire a coach after two years that inherits the type of pathetic situation that he did.

[TheDogFather]

Never suggested firing him. Only that we have absolutely no history to tell us he will be successful in any situation.

The Georgia game does give us a little something to base opinions on.

[engie]

So more second year judgement thread?

This is tiring. Regardless of end result.

Let us review -- and then tell me how "this basketball situation is different"..
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/467588/At-What-Point-Is-It-Cohens-Team#reply-467588
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/383201/Collegiate-Baseball-ranks-incoming-class-18th#reply-383201
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/topic/23799/If-I-had-to-rate-Cohen-to-this-point-I-would-say-F?page=1#.Uv2S0PldU1I
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/topic/87066/Miss-State-baseball-facts-and-comparisions?page=1#.Uv2RG_ldU1I
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/475609/Oh-yeah-since-we-all-love-rumors-around-here#reply-475609

[Schultzy]

The reputation our hoops program had in basketball circles around the country was far worse than those conducting the search knew going into it is what I heard. That's why we kept getting no thank you's from HC after HC during the process. That, and the dire roster situation.

You could also base it on the four SEC games he won last year (shouldn't have won any) and the few he's won this year.

State hired the coach they liked best in the interviews after they realized hardly anyone else would take a career chance on such a tough situation.

This is why all of the bitching about Ray sounds so ignorant to me.

[TheDogFather]

The reputation our hoops program had in basketball circles around the country was far worse than those conducting the search knew going into it is what I heard. That's why we kept getting no thank you's from HC after HC during the process. That, and the dire roster situation.

You could also base it on the four SEC games he won last year (shouldn't have won any) and the few he's won this year.

State hired the coach they liked best in the interviews after they realized hardly anyone else would take a career chance on such a tough situation.

This is why all of the bitching about Ray sounds so ignorant to me.

Good theory anyway.

So we excuse a coach for two years with shitty players and fire a coach after two years with shitty players. Let's play Pick the Right Rick.

[bannedwayne]

Thank god for baseball season.

[Coach34]

No, we fired a coach for losing control of the program and making a mockery of our school. It was embarrassing

[tcdog70]

Barry Stewart Freshman 40% from field...3-ball 39.1%...FT 76.6%
Barry Stewart Soph 38.3% from field...3-ball 33%...FT 69.6%

Congrats John Wooden- you just cut Barry Stewart...was he not coachable or was it shitty coaching?

You are the King out of selective stats. Based on how many shots. Do you think stats are the only way to tell if a player has gotten better? Any dumb ass could tell Stewart got better every year. Do you keep stats on how many times you shit a week?

[TheDogFather]

No, we fired a coach for losing control of the program and making a mockery of our school. It was embarrassing

Not nearly as embarrassing as having Wednesday nights debacle broadcast on TV. We are a laughing stock.

BTW, coach. You go to the game?

[engie]

Not nearly as embarrassing as having Wednesday nights debacle broadcast on TV. We are a laughing stock.

BTW, coach. You go to the game?

No way you are that dumb.

Time to start clearing this place of the trolls again. This guy thinks losing a home game by 20 and trailing by 1 at the half is more embarrassing than being a lead story on ESPN for teammates getting in a fight in the stands in wife beaters and called the most dysfunctional team in college basketball by multiple national publications and radio personalities...

[engie]

You are the King out of selective stats. Based on how many shots. Do you think stats are the only way to tell if a player has gotten better? Any dumb ass could tell Stewart got better every year. Do you keep stats on how many times you shit a week?

Obviously not from his freshman to sophomore year. But the WIDELY used term "sophomore slump" is clearly lost on you. "It's skewing that he went downhill in every stat...I could SEE his improvement!!!1!11" You show the same person that every player on Rick Ray's team has improved, "It has to be SOS -- this team has not improved at all!!1!1"

I guess you are simply smarter than statistics...

[Coach34]

Engie beat me to replying- but yeah, what he said

[TheDogFather]

No way you are that dumb.

Time to start clearing this place of the trolls again. This guy thinks losing a home game by 20 and trailing by 1 at the half is more embarrassing than being a lead story on ESPN for teammates getting in a fight in the stands in wife beaters and called the most dysfunctional team in college basketball by multiple national publications and radio personalities...

We can have a debate if you would like. But going down the troll road just because someone disagrees with you is irresponsible.

To yours and coaches dismay and disappointment there are reasonable people that exist who think the Stansbury firing was a bad decision and that the Ray hiring just made it worse.

What you have found is that your hyperbole and misguided exaggeration on the Stanbury criticism has resulted in the same on the Stansbury support and Ray criticism. So ironically the coaching discussion you loathe was actually borne by you.

[Schultzy]

It's not a theory, hyperbole or misguided exaggeration. It is reality. We hired a coach without head coaching experience BECAUSE of how bad the shape our program had sunk to.

It's frustrating for us on this side of the argument because we think it should be obvious for reasonable people to see.

Because of the deep hole Ray inherited, he should be given more than 1-1/2 years to dig out of it. MSU is not a school that can plug in 5 McDonalds All Americans each year.

You should at least acknowledge Ray took a big career chance by accepting this challenge of a depleted program.

[MadDawg]

No, we fired a coach for losing control of the program and making a mockery of our school. It was embarrassing

Da ****?

Losing control of the program..... check.

Making a mockery of the school.... what the hell?

[TheDogFather]

I acknowledge your point and agree totally about Rays decision.

We actually agree on more than you realize.

On "our side" what we don't understand is the incessant criticism heaped upon Stansbury on a daily basis - and you must admit it has reached an unreasonably exaggerated point - while any criticism of Ray is met with excuses and 100% pass.

I can't remember once it being mentioned that Ray should lose his job.

[Coach34]

We can have a debate if you would like.

To yours and coaches dismay and disappointment there are reasonable people that exist who think the Stansbury firing was a bad decision .

There is really nothing to debate

We were embarrassed on national TV with players fighting in the stands
The Sporting News labeled us the "most dysfunctional program in America"
Gottlieb and Katz were laughing at us on ESPN about Stands
Jimmy Dykes on SEC telecasts routinely pointing out Sidney being lazy and walking up the floor during games
Players calling out the coaches on twitter
Players ignoring the coaches during time-outs
The program was ranked 2 of the last 3 seasons and neither team made the NCAA Tourney

If you dont think the coach deserves to be fired over that- we dont have anything left to discuss.

[TheDogFather]

Duplicate post

[TheDogFather]

There is really nothing to debate

We were embarrassed on national TV with players fighting in the stands
The Sporting News labeled us the "most dysfunctional program in America"
Gottlieb and Katz were laughing at us on ESPN about Stands
Jimmy Dykes on SEC telecasts routinely pointing out Sidney being lazy and walking up the floor during games
Players calling out the coaches on twitter
Players ignoring the coaches during time-outs
The program was ranked 2 of the last 3 seasons and neither team made the NCAA Tourney

If you dont think the coach deserves to be fired over that- we dont have anything left to discuss.

A great example of my point. Your opinion is right so there is nothing to debate. I'm surprised I wasn't called a troll again.

[Coach34]

A great example of my point. Your opinion is right so there is nothing to debate. I'm surprised I wasn't called a troll again.

I don't think you're trolling- it's just that removing Stands was a no-brainer. The only question left on that was did we wait a year too long?

The problems started once we began the search to replace him. Strick and Co had no idea the job was viewed as toxic as it was. None of us did really. Hell, you Stands-Lovers still dont believe it. It was a big reality check for Strick- but it also gave him reassurance that he did the right thing. And that's why we have a guy named Rick Ray coaching us now.

We'll see the next 2 years how it works out.

[Coach34]

So more second year judgement thread?

This is tiring. Regardless of end result.

Let us review -- and then tell me how "this basketball situation is different"..
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/467588/At-What-Point-Is-It-Cohens-Team#reply-467588
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/383201/Collegiate-Baseball-ranks-incoming-class-18th#reply-383201
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/topic/23799/If-I-had-to-rate-Cohen-to-this-point-I-would-say-F?page=1#.Uv2S0PldU1I
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/topic/87066/Miss-State-baseball-facts-and-comparisions?page=1#.Uv2RG_ldU1I
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/475609/Oh-yeah-since-we-all-love-rumors-around-here#reply-475609


"This is turning into one of the biggest coaching busts we've seen in a while. It's worse than Croom. Nobody had any idea what to expect from Croom. But people expected Cohen to have a clue what he's doing. So far, not so much."- Maddawg

[engie]

"This is turning into one of the biggest coaching busts we've seen in a while. It's worse than Croom. Nobody had any idea what to expect from Croom. But people expected Cohen to have a clue what he's doing. So far, not so much."- Maddawg

But he was always on the Cohen bandwagon**

I think the "when is it Cohen's team" thread needs some transcription here. Yet, people say my constant comparison is ridiculous. Well, go read the damn thread -- it's basically identical to this one.

[engie]

We can have a debate if you would like. But going down the troll road just because someone disagrees with you is irresponsible.

Irresponsible?

No - what's irresponsible is calling a home loss to a team that is tied for 3rd in the SEC standings "MORE embarrassing for the university than fighting in the stands as the lead story on Sportscenter for 3 days and being watched by 100 million people fighting in wife beaters in the stands during a prestigious basketball tournament."

You are either a total moron that lacks any semblance of common sense and any form of perception-lending memory...or a troll. Feel free to make your choice which you prefer it to be. That's how damn stupid the post I quoted was -- and the agenda isn't far behind it.

[Westdawg]

My personal opinion is that Rick Ray needs to be given 4 years to right the ship. Any coach in any sport should be able to do that within that time frame. Yes, that may seem like that is too much time for a basketball coach. BUT, this program was basically the ashes of the dumpster fire that many claimed we were. The few decent pieces that were left, namely Hood, left when Stans was let go. his first "recruiting class" was basically a conglomeration of what he could find in the short time span. This class is shaping up to be a bit better. He really doesnt even have any of HIS recruits on the floor yet.
Ya'll, we all knew we would go through this when Stans "retired". Let's just stick with the guy. From what I have seen and also heard, he is a great coach that just doesnt have the weapons yet nor the depth to be successful.

[RougeDawg]

Again, the man did not have enough players on the roster to conduct a live basketball scrimmage his first year. Any reasonable person should've known the first two years would be very difficult.

If he can get some scorers in here he will succeed. But it's stupid to think that we should be back to normal yet as a program.

The "Man" could have walked his ass across the parking lot to the Sanderson on any given afternoon, and hand picked a better team than what was on his roster this and last year. This is what pisses me off. When I was at state there were some pretty damn good ballers in the Sanderson daily. I'm sure Most of them would love to have a walkon spot on the team. Why not have a tryout for players like that? They're better than what we put on the floor Wed night, for sure. Didn't we have an open tryout like this for kicker last year?

[MadDawg]

"This is turning into one of the biggest coaching busts we've seen in a while. It's worse than Croom. Nobody had any idea what to expect from Croom. But people expected Cohen to have a clue what he's doing. So far, not so much."- Maddawg

Where did you dig this up from? Got a link to this? I don't remember making that statement, but I might have. I've admitted to being wrong about Cohen. I wonder, though, if Ray turns out to be a bust, will you admit you were wrong? Hahahaha. Nevermind, of course you won't.

[smootness]

The "Man" could have walked his ass across the parking lot to the Sanderson on any given afternoon, and hand picked a better team than what was on his roster this and last year. This is what pisses me off. When I was at state there were some pretty damn good ballers in the Sanderson daily. I'm sure Most of them would love to have a walkon spot on the team. Why not have a tryout for players like that? They're better than what we put on the floor Wed night, for sure. Didn't we have an open tryout like this for kicker last year?

Oh gosh. Oh. Gosh. We have officially entered the twilight zone.

Tyson Cunningham is about as good as any non-basketball player on campus. You want to throw some other Tyson Cunningham's out there?

I mean, I'm sorry, but holy crap. 'I know some dudes who could ball, we should put them on the team!' Giant LOL.

[MadDawg]

But he was always on the Cohen bandwagon**

I think the "when is it Cohen's team" thread needs some transcription here. Yet, people say my constant comparison is ridiculous. Well, go read the damn thread -- it's basically identical to this one.

Is there a link to this thread? Is this where that quote came from? I hate to be skeptical, but you guys have spread lies before.

[Coach34]

retty damn good ballers in the Sanderson daily. I'm sure Most of them would love to have a walkon spot on the team. Why not have a tryout for players like that? They're better than what we put on the floor Wed night, for sure. Didn't we have an open tryout like this for kicker last year?

Ray has had tryouts for walk-ons both years- that's how we got Cunningham

[smootness]

Where did you dig this up from? Got a link to this? I don't remember making that statement, but I might have. I've admitted to being wrong about Cohen. I wonder, though, if Ray turns out to be a bust, will you admit you were wrong? Hahahaha. Nevermind, of course you won't.

But the point of showing your quote and taking issue with everything you say about Ray now is that you just have to give him more time. People said the same about Cohen, but people like you refused to give him that time before coming to a conclusion on his coaching ability. Same with Ray...here you are making the same mistake.

That doesn't mean Ray will be a home run. He may not work and we have to make a change. But you just can't make that judgement right now. If Ray turns out to be a bust, no one who said we have to give him more time will have been wrong; once he's had enough time, we'll acknowledge he had to go.

But if Ray turns out to be great, you will look dumb, just as you do now with Cohen.

[Coach34]

Is there a link to this thread? Is this where that quote came from? I hate to be skeptical, but you guys have spread lies before.

thats funny....Engie provided links to 5 old threads earlier in the thread. Made for some really good reading

http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/467588/At-What-Point-Is-It-Cohens-Team#reply-467588

[Westdawg]

The "Man" could have walked his ass across the parking lot to the Sanderson on any given afternoon, and hand picked a better team than what was on his roster this and last year. This is what pisses me off. When I was at state there were some pretty damn good ballers in the Sanderson daily. I'm sure Most of them would love to have a walkon spot on the team. Why not have a tryout for players like that? They're better than what we put on the floor Wed night, for sure. Didn't we have an open tryout like this for kicker last year?

Kickers are one thing.....but to go and find legit PLAYERS is an entirely different thing, as well. Guess we could find a better point guard at the Sanderson? dang, wish someone had told Croom we could have found someone to replace Henig from the intramural football league!!! or maybe find a better RT than Siddoway in the Union!
You don't just walk around a college campus and find D-I ball players that are not already on a team. Sure, i am sure there might be one at MSU, but not 5-7 of them.

[dawgs]

It's not a theory, hyperbole or misguided exaggeration. It is reality. We hired a coach without head coaching experience BECAUSE of how bad the shape our program had sunk to.

It's frustrating for us on this side of the argument because we think it should be obvious for reasonable people to see.

Because of the deep hole Ray inherited, he should be given more than 1-1/2 years to dig out of it. MSU is not a school that can plug in 5 McDonalds All Americans each year.

You should at least acknowledge Ray took a big career chance by accepting this challenge of a depleted program.

i don't think ray took a big career chance. he wasn't anywhere near getting another major conference HC gig, he's being compensated well above his assistant coach salary, and if he can't turn us around and gets fired, he'll still be able to go back to being an assistant coach.

as for the 5 mcdonald's AA comment, we still wouldn't be landing many McD's AA, but our admin is hamstringing ray's recruiting by limiting his AAU contacts. it's just impossible to to recruit above avg major conference talent without getting in bed with AAU. it's dirty, but it's necessary.

[MadDawg]

Here another nugget from the old archives engie lives in:

"What do you think will be the biggest difference between Polk and Cohen?

'May not mean much to you, but that difference between Polk and Cohen means a lot to me and I bet others as well.'

Oh it means something. I just think it's more about the "calm, that's baseball Polk" versus the "fiery, emotional Cohen". That's the difference in my opinion. And for the record, I'm ready for that change. We've done it Polk's way for too long. It's time for a new direction."


But that doesn't fit the narrative, so I'm sure it got ignored.

[tcdog70]

Engie beat me to replying- but yeah, what he said

are you sure ya'll aren't twins-both are great selective stat kings--but I guess the rest of the story is lost on you two Mesage board gurus

[RougeDawg]

Oh gosh. Oh. Gosh. We have officially entered the twilight zone.

Tyson Cunningham is about as good as any non-basketball player on campus. You want to throw some other Tyson Cunningham's out there?

I mean, I'm sorry, but holy crap. 'I know some dudes who could ball, we should put them on the team!' Giant LOL.

You are a ****ing clown, who obviously hasn't stepped foot in the Sanderson. I've noticed a pattern of you commenting on multiple legitimate posts lately. Do you just like to talk shit to stir the pot? And if you'd refrained from responding you would have seen Coach respond with Ray already holding similar tryouts. I don't keep up with much basketball behind the scenes, but I do know there are better players in the Sanderson than a handful of players currently on our roster.

[RougeDawg]

Ray has had tryouts for walk-ons both years- that's how we got Cunningham

Are they not getting much participation in these tryouts? When I was in school in the Early/Mid 2000's there were some solid players that play in the Sanderson, and some good shooters. I would suspect nothing has changed in that category. Are these guys just not interested in playing or trying out? Their school is obviously already paid for so something has to be preventing them from wanting to play.

[RougeDawg]

Kickers are one thing.....but to go and find legit PLAYERS is an entirely different thing, as well. Guess we could find a better point guard at the Sanderson? dang, wish someone had told Croom we could have found someone to replace Henig from the intramural football league!!! or maybe find a better RT than Siddoway in the Union!
You don't just walk around a college campus and find D-I ball players that are not already on a team. Sure, i am sure there might be one at MSU, but not 5-7 of them.

Are you saying that our current roster is entirely composed of players that are actually D-I quality? Hasn't that been the argument by most on here? Not very talented? Open Roster spots? Warm bodies who know how to inbound a pass and run up and down the court would be better than what I saw Wednesday night out there.

[TheDogFather]

We should get a few things straight. Producing an either/or scenario In a debate is completely elementary and not worth the time to rebut.

And, yes, calling someone a troll for simply disagreeing with your opinion is irresponsible and insulting to the intelligence of the poster.

You seem to be arguing a point that is undeniable. I'm unsure why other than you have nothing left to offer on the subject. Fighting in the stands is embarrassing and there is no need in raising your blood pressure to try and prove it

As is usual, your emotions have clouded any reasonable response. And since you seem to care enough to read the posts and have a logical discussion on the points, I will reiterate.

Rick Ray is not a good coach. Can he become one? Sure. But until results are shown we can't tell. The embarrassment in the performance against Georgia has nothing to do with Georgia and if you are unable to see the problems then maybe you should dust off the ole basketball 101 book.

As for agendas? You simply making that statement is hypocritical at the very best. The only legitimate argument you have provided for Rays abilities is to discuss Stansbury. Now there is the real agenda.

So you should continue your pattern of exaggeration and name calling since you obviously have no need or want for actual thoughtful discussion.

And just as an aside, did you go to the game Wednesday?

[TheDogFather]

I don't think you're trolling- it's just that removing Stands was a no-brainer. The only question left on that was did we wait a year too long?

The problems started once we began the search to replace him. Strick and Co had no idea the job was viewed as toxic as it was. None of us did really. Hell, you Stands-Lovers still dont believe it. It was a big reality check for Strick- but it also gave him reassurance that he did the right thing. And that's why we have a guy named Rick Ray coaching us now.

We'll see the next 2 years how it works out.

I'm just wondering. Why do you insist on insulting Stansbury with names like "Stands". Do you think it brings value to your arguments? Do you think somehow Stansbury sees this and is insulted? I'd like to hear your reasoning on it.

[Coach34]

are you sure ya'll aren't twins-both are great selective stat kings--but I guess the rest of the story is lost on you two Mesage board gurus

No- just dont make a dumbass statement and then get mad when proven wrong. Everybody questioned what was going on with Stewart his 2nd season- he was clearly worse than his freshman season. He had a Soph slump- for whatever reason- but came on and had two more good seasons after.

You were wrong, it happens. Stop being a whiner about it

[engie]

But the point of showing your quote and taking issue with everything you say about Ray now is that you just have to give him more time. People said the same about Cohen, but people like you refused to give him that time before coming to a conclusion on his coaching ability. Same with Ray...here you are making the same mistake.

That doesn't mean Ray will be a home run. He may not work and we have to make a change. But you just can't make that judgement right now. If Ray turns out to be a bust, no one who said we have to give him more time will have been wrong; once he's had enough time, we'll acknowledge he had to go.

But if Ray turns out to be great, you will look dumb, just as you do now with Cohen.

EXACTLY.

It's not about being "right" or "wrong". It's about the ridiculousness and redundancy of forming COMPLETE opinions on INCOMPLETE data sets...

Of course, you and I will be pinned as "Ray lovers that were wrong" if he doesn't work out -- even though we've taken no such actual stance.

[SouthMsDawg]

Barry Stewart is a better player than anybody Rick Ray has recruited for us and has on our team. And he was an under the radar guy that Stans signed.

Barry could do something NONE and i say it again NONE of our current players could do and that is consistently shoot and make 3pointers.

Yall all can hammer on Stans all you want but fact remains that he always recruited and played guys who could hit 3 pointers from Tang, Antonio Jackson, Markell Patterson, Ontario, Timmy B, Frazier, Power, Jamont, Barry, Ben Hans, Dee, Steele , etc.. Hell Riley Benock is a better shooter than anybody currently have on our team.

Is it that hard for Ray to go recruit in an area he used to coach (Indiana or the midwest) and find a kid who can knock down jumpers???

[engie]

Here another nugget from the old archives engie lives in:

"What do you think will be the biggest difference between Polk and Cohen?

'May not mean much to you, but that difference between Polk and Cohen means a lot to me and I bet others as well.'

Oh it means something. I just think it's more about the "calm, that's baseball Polk" versus the "fiery, emotional Cohen". That's the difference in my opinion. And for the record, I'm ready for that change. We've done it Polk's way for too long. It's time for a new direction."


But that doesn't fit the narrative, so I'm sure it got ignored.


And again, you TOTALLY whiff on the overriding point -- in attempt to get caught up in the small details -- from an ENTIRELY different point in time of the two compared tenures.

The fact of the matter is -- you took the exact same approach to Cohen that you are taking to Ray. You didn't learn a damn thing from this the last time.

[SouthMsDawg]

Also would like to add that Rick Ray's offense which some of you may love is about as boring of an offense as there is in the SEC. We rarely score in our half court motion offense mainly due to lack of shooters. Most of our points come in transition off of steals. When teams don't turn it over (Georgia in the 2nd half) we struggle.

[engie]

We should get a few things straight. Producing an either/or scenario In a debate is completely elementary and not worth the time to rebut.

And, yes, calling someone a troll for simply disagreeing with your opinion is irresponsible and insulting to the intelligence of the poster.

You seem to be arguing a point that is undeniable. I'm unsure why other than you have nothing left to offer on the subject. Fighting in the stands is embarrassing and there is no need in raising your blood pressure to try and prove it

As is usual, your emotions have clouded any reasonable response. And since you seem to care enough to read the posts and have a logical discussion on the points, I will reiterate.

Rick Ray is not a good coach. Can he become one? Sure. But until results are shown we can't tell. The embarrassment in the performance against Georgia has nothing to do with Georgia and if you are unable to see the problems then maybe you should dust off the ole basketball 101 book.

As for agendas? You simply making that statement is hypocritical at the very best. The only legitimate argument you have provided for Rays abilities is to discuss Stansbury. Now there is the real agenda.

So you should continue your pattern of exaggeration and name calling since you obviously have no need or want for actual thoughtful discussion.

And just as an aside, did you go to the game Wednesday?

Blah blah blah -- you said something fuggin stupid that called your agenda to front and center -- and making up a bunch of other straw man bullshit(which is also mostly fuggin stupid) to deflect doesn't change a damn bit of it.

[Coach34]

I'm just wondering. Why do you insist on insulting Stansbury with names like "Stands". Do you think it brings value to your arguments? Do you think somehow Stansbury sees this and is insulted? I'd like to hear your reasoning on it.

See- this is the core of the problem. You guys are sooooo loyal, insane, touchy, or whatever the descriptive word is that comedy is lost about anything Stansbury. Stains is insulting, as are some others. Stands is just a play on his nickname

Stands is a funny nickname, Nothing more, nothing less. Many of us have talked for years about how there was too much "standing around" in our "motion" offense. And there was. Changing Stans to Stands couldnt be any more of an appropriate name for him. It's not insulting- its just funny. And fitting.

Stands was a solid coach at State for most of his tenure.

Good side- he won an SEC title, a couple of SEC Tourneys, kept a consistent team for the most part, and got us in the Dance 6 times in 14 seasons.

Bad side- He almost never won a big game whether it was vs top 10 teams or in the NCAA Tourney, his SOS was almost always in the bottom 1/3 of the SEC, we only made 2 NCAA's his last 7 seasons and there were lots of discipline problems and drama at the end.

We have moved on- it's time for the Stands-Lovers to do the same. But you wont, and we'll keep having this same argument like we did about Cohen until he shut everybody the **** up like many of us said he would. Hopefully Ray does the same

[engie]

Also would like to add that Rick Ray's offense which some of you may love is about as boring of an offense as there is in the SEC. We rarely score in our half court motion offense mainly due to lack of shooters. Most of our points come in transition off of steals. When teams don't turn it over (Georgia in the 2nd half) we struggle.

Damn it Bundy.

Is the offense "boring" or can we just not shoot? Those are two entirely different things.

[Coach34]

Also would like to add that Rick Ray's offense which some of you may love is about as boring of an offense as there is in the SEC. We rarely score in our half court motion offense mainly due to lack of shooters. Most of our points come in transition off of steals. When teams don't turn it over (Georgia in the 2nd half) we struggle.

And let me add that it's not Ray's offense that is the problem- it's our ability to make shots.
With Stands people couldnt stand the fact that we did so much standing around watching someone dribble to create a shot.

Big difference

Nobody is suggesting that our players dont need to get better

[engie]

We have moved on- it's time for the Stands-Lovers to do the same. But you wont, and we'll keep having this same argument like we did about Cohen until he shut everybody the **** up like many of us said he would. Hopefully Ray does the same

At which point, everyone would swear they were on the bandwagon and knew he would get it done all along... lest you go archive digging to see what was actually being said at the time...

[Coach34]

Are they not getting much participation in these tryouts? When I was in school in the Early/Mid 2000's there were some solid players that play in the Sanderson, and some good shooters. I would suspect nothing has changed in that category. Are these guys just not interested in playing or trying out? Their school is obviously already paid for so something has to be preventing them from wanting to play.

Ray has tryouts at 6am. He wants to see what walk-ons are willing to do what it takes to be part of the program (like making the 6am workouts that players have to do these days), and not waste his time with ones that may initially think they want to do it- then quit. Needless to say- he has had very few tryout.

[TheDogFather]

See- this is the core of the problem. You guys are sooooo loyal, insane, touchy, or whatever the descriptive word is that comedy is lost about anything Stansbury. Stains is insulting, as are some others. Stands is just a play on his nickname

Stands is a funny nickname, Nothing more, nothing less. Many of us have talked for years about how there was too much "standing around" in our "motion" offense. And there was. Changing Stans to Stands couldnt be any more of an appropriate name for him. It's not insulting- its just funny. And fitting.

Stands was a solid coach at State for most of his tenure.

Good side- he won an SEC title, a couple of SEC Tourneys, kept a consistent team for the most part, and got us in the Dance 6 times in 14 seasons.

Bad side- He almost never won a big game whether it was vs top 10 teams or in the NCAA Tourney, his SOS was almost always in the bottom 1/3 of the SEC, we only made 2 NCAA's his last 7 seasons and there were lots of discipline problems and drama at the end.

We have moved on- it's time for the Stands-Lovers to do the same. But you wont, and we'll keep having this same argument like we did about Cohen until he shut everybody the **** up like many of us said he would. Hopefully Ray does the same


Thanks for the rational response - except for the somewhat childish "shut the **** up" statement.

Although, ironically you just contradicted 75% of your own reasoning with the above statement. So I guess I owe you a "Thank you".

[TheDogFather]

I guess this means you've ended debate or conceded the point? Well done. Or, maybe "blah blah blah....

[MadDawg]

And again, you TOTALLY whiff on the overriding point -- in attempt to get caught up in the small details -- from an ENTIRELY different point in time of the two compared tenures.

The fact of the matter is -- you took the exact same approach to Cohen that you are taking to Ray. You didn't learn a damn thing from this the last time.

Talk about whiffing. I made some remarks about Cohen that look dumb in retrospect, although there were many, many folks unhappy with the direction of the program at the time. Not just me. Not by a long freaking shot.

Where you whif miserably, is claiming it's "the exact same approach...you are taking with Ray". I have not stated anything close to that Ray was the "biggest coaching bust in recent memory". I just haven't. I'm not that happy with Ray, but unlike you mischaracterized, I actually HAVE learned a lesson from the early Cohen tenure and going to reserve final judgement for a little while.

[MadDawg]

See- this is the core of the problem. You guys are sooooo loyal, insane, touchy, or whatever the descriptive word is that comedy is lost about anything Stansbury. Stains is insulting, as are some others. Stands is just a play on his nickname

Stands is a funny nickname, Nothing more, nothing less. Many of us have talked for years about how there was too much "standing around" in our "motion" offense. And there was. Changing Stans to Stands couldnt be any more of an appropriate name for him. It's not insulting- its just funny. And fitting.

Stands was a solid coach at State for most of his tenure.

Good side- he won an SEC title, a couple of SEC Tourneys, kept a consistent team for the most part, and got us in the Dance 6 times in 14 seasons.

Bad side- He almost never won a big game whether it was vs top 10 teams or in the NCAA Tourney, his SOS was almost always in the bottom 1/3 of the SEC, we only made 2 NCAA's his last 7 seasons and there were lots of discipline problems and drama at the end.

We have moved on- it's time for the Stands-Lovers to do the same. But you wont, and we'll keep having this same argument like we did about Cohen until he shut everybody the **** up like many of us said he would. Hopefully Ray does the same



What a bunch of horse shit. Coach, don't be a puss. You call Stansbury derrogatory names to piss off the people that don't hate him. Period. Don't shy away from it. Own it.

[Coach34]

Stands and The Recruiter are not derogatory- just very fitting

[engie]

Talk about whiffing. I made some remarks about Cohen that look dumb in retrospect, although there were many, many folks unhappy with the direction of the program at the time. Not just me. Not by a long freaking shot.
That's been my point about withholding judgement on Ray the entire time -- until he's had a fair amount of time to get it going(year 3).


Where you whif miserably, is claiming it's "the exact same approach...you are taking with Ray". I have not stated anything close to that Ray was the "biggest coaching bust in recent memory". I just haven't. I'm not that happy with Ray, but unlike you mischaracterized, I actually HAVE learned a lesson from the early Cohen tenure and going to reserve final judgement for a little while.
I don't even know how you said this with a straight face. While you may not have actually made any "Fire Ray" posts, you have been one of, if not, the MOST outspoken in bitching about the current state our basketball program at every opportunity. It doesn't take the making of any ridiculous logical leaps to assume what you mean by it.

[smootness]

You are a ****ing clown, who obviously hasn't stepped foot in the Sanderson. I've noticed a pattern of you commenting on multiple legitimate posts lately. Do you just like to talk shit to stir the pot? And if you'd refrained from responding you would have seen Coach respond with Ray already holding similar tryouts. I don't keep up with much basketball behind the scenes, but I do know there are better players in the Sanderson than a handful of players currently on our roster.

No, I haven't set foot in the Sanderson. But I did set foot in the Ramsey center plenty of times at UGA, and sure, there are a bunch of guys who seem like good basketball players. And any SEC scholarship basketball player will come in and wipe the floor with them.

I was at UGA at a time when they were arguably the worst SEC basketball team of all-time, almost certainly even worse than our team is currently. Their best player, by a mile, was Sundiata Gaines. And they had a few players who would play at Ramsey from time to time; and every single time, they made a mockery of the rest of the guys in there.

If the players in the Sanderson were any good relative to scholarship college athletes, they would be playing somewhere on scholarship...at least NAIA, D2. Your claim that multiple kids from the freaking Sanderson could show up and be better than several players on our roster is insane.

I try to be rational and thoughtful. I try to avoid name-calling or emotional posts. Yes, I have opinions, sometimes strong ones, and I don't mind sharing them. That's what boards like these are for. But I try not to ever just throw crap against the wall or be a dick for the sake of being a dick. I just argue my side strongly.

But that claim is absurd.

I'm sure he holds tryouts...every coach at every program does. At UGA, they held open tryouts and a couple of kids made the team, one from my dorm. The kid looked like a ridiculous stud at Ramsey. You know how much he played? About 5 minutes that year, when they were getting blown out in a couple of games. Why? Because despite the horrendous makeup of the UGA roster, the kid was nowhere as good as the guys already playing.

[MadDawg]

That's been my point about withholding judgement on Ray the entire time -- until he's had a fair amount of time to get it going(year 3).


I don't even know how you said this with a straight face. While you may not have actually made any "Fire Ray" posts, you have been one of, if not, the MOST outspoken in bitching about the current state our basketball program at every opportunity. It doesn't take the making of any ridiculous logical leaps to assume what you mean by it.

See. this is the problem when you think you know everything. You don't need any actual statements from me to determine what I think. You just know, because by God, you are engie.

You know, or at least the all-knowing-engie SHOULD know, is that my posts center mostly around when people feel the need to disparage the previous regime in order to make themselves feel better about the current one. It's not being honest. It's not accurate. It's lazy. And I like to call people out on it.

Now taking this position routinely puts me in your cross-hairs. Why? I'm not really sure except for the fact that you routinely use disparaging remarks against the old regime to prop up the new one, because, frankly, there isn't any real data to support it.

[shannondawg]

Same tired old arguments, how many times has "fighting in the stands" been brought up in the past year. Two guys fighting is not that unusual, just getting caught on tv was extremely unlucky for our school, but to have that as Rick Stansbury's legacy is criminal.

Rick has a choice and took retirement. But we would have all been better off if he had stayed one more year, the tumor was gone, he would have retained a couple of more recruits and probably kept Hood, Then if the ship was not righted, we would have been in a much better position to hire a coach with more experience,.

It might not matter to you young guys , but we (and in fairness to him and to ourselves we have to)give Ray two more years and the program has not progressed, are we faced with another four years of building the program then another and another and so on.

Happy? How could anybody be with this situation, other than the ones that have a Rick Stansbury vendetta. And Coach34 your cute name for him may be funny to you as you keep insisting, but I assure you its not to a great majority.

[Coach34]

Same tired old arguments, how many times has "fighting in the stands" been brought up in the past year. Two guys fighting is not that unusual, just getting caught on tv was extremely unlucky for our school, but to have that as Rick Stansbury's legacy is criminal.

Rick has a choice and took retirement. But we would have all been better off if he had stayed one more year, the tumor was gone, he would have retained a couple of more recruits and probably kept Hood, Then if the ship was not righted, we would have been in a much better position to hire a coach with more experience,.

It might not matter to you young guys , but we (and in fairness to him and to ourselves we have to)give Ray two more years and the program has not progressed, are we faced with another four years of building the program then another and another and so on.

Happy? How could anybody be with this situation, other than the ones that have a Rick Stansbury vendetta. And Coach34 your cute name for him may be funny to you as you keep insisting, but I assure you its not to a great majority.

And same ol tired bullshit from you guys.

A) Stands had a choice- retire or be fired. If you call that a choice- ok.

B) It's not just the fighting in the bleachers. It's also:

The Sporting News labeled us the "most dysfunctional program in America"
Gottlieb and Katz were laughing at us on ESPN about Stands
Jimmy Dykes on SEC telecasts routinely pointing out Sidney being lazy and walking up the floor during games
Players calling out the coaches on twitter
Players ignoring the coaches during time-outs
The program was ranked 2 of the last 3 seasons and neither team made the NCAA Tourney

And that's not his "legacy"- but that is why his tenure ended.

C) We would have been no better off had we let him coach another year. We still had a rampant drug problem and guys that didnt work hard.

D) If Ray doesnt work out- it wont be another 4 year rebuild- we wont be starting at Ground Zero like Stands left us. The next coach will be in much better position to get things going because he will take over a program based on effort and hard work.

E) There is no Rick Stansbury vendetta. That's comical. We just pointed out the problems with the program- which of course ended up being his undoing

F) I dont know a State fan that follows basketball that doesnt find "Stands" hilarious and fitting...

[Schultzy]

i don't think ray took a big career chance. he wasn't anywhere near getting another major conference HC gig, he's being compensated well above his assistant coach salary, and if he can't turn us around and gets fired, he'll still be able to go back to being an assistant coach.

as for the 5 mcdonald's AA comment, we still wouldn't be landing many McD's AA, but our admin is hamstringing ray's recruiting by limiting his AAU contacts. it's just impossible to to recruit above avg major conference talent without getting in bed with AAU. it's dirty, but it's necessary.

It's pretty much sink or swim when it come to HC jobs in the NCAA. Regardless of age, so yeah, he did take a big career chance.

[shannondawg]

So you know that is was be fired or retire? Prove it..

The media never takes an incident and makes the most of it?

You know that we would have been no better off, the coach that has the most wins in our history would have had better players and wouldn't have had a better team?

After this hire, what makes you think he would make a better one next time and even so, what makes you so sure that the program is going to be in better shape when Rick Ray leaves if in fact he does.? Rick Stansbury had a pretty good recruiting class coming in when he left, you sure Rick Ray will? All that hard work is paying off in spades now isn't it and all the genius X & O's, only thing about those X & O's , the ball don't necessarily go in the hole...

Listen you bullshit your friends and I'll do the same with mine, but don't try to tell me you don't have a vendetta against Rick Stansbury.

I think enough people on this board have told you they don't think your little pet name is funny to negate that statement, all your little message board disciples may think its funny, but don't take a poll you might be embarrassed..

[Schultzy]

I'd like to see that poll taken outside the Civic Center after the Butler loss.

[coastdoglover]

Truer words have never been spoken. Of course, this is coach34's board so he can attract all his buddies but some of us are open minded and your posts on this shannondawg at least explore all sides. If indeed Katz and Gottlieb said we were the most dysfunctional program in America, I wonder if that was only during the Sidney saga. All the drug issues coach yells about are about the same Coach Ray has had, as well and countless other programs. Sidney being lazy, it was obvious but he was benched if you remember for an extended period and he simply wouldn't change. He was history no matter who was our coach when Stans left. All of this vendetta has been going on for a decade but it is pretty clear that coach Ray has certainly being judged a lot differently by coach and his cronies and I wonder why? I think we know why, some folks will never ever admit they re wrong about anything. We all know who they are. The fact remains, Ray will get one or two more years, but we are the worst basketball team I have seen at MSU during my lifetime and we can blame Stans all we want to, but there comes a time when the current coach has to be held accountable and I suspect a year or two from now we will still be trying to get back where we were even in Stans' below average years. Not winning many games in the big dance pales in comparision to being the laughing stock of the SEC and if we can't even compete in the weakest SEC in decades, how are we going to do any better? At least we had success in the conference most years and when we lined up against Kentucky, most folks thought we competed. We aren't even close now.



So you know that is was be fired or retire? Prove it..

The media never takes an incident and makes the most of it?

You know that we would have been no better off, the coach that has the most wins in our history would have had better players and wouldn't have had a better team?

After this hire, what makes you think he would make a better one next time and even so, what makes you so sure that the program is going to be in better shape when Rick Ray leaves if in fact he does.? Rick Stansbury had a pretty good recruiting class coming in when he left, you sure Rick Ray will? All that hard work is paying off in spades now isn't it and all the genius X & O's, only thing about those X & O's , the ball don't necessarily go in the hole...

Listen you bullshit your friends and I'll do the same with mine, but don't try to tell me you don't have a vendetta against Rick Stansbury.

I think enough people on this board have told you they don't think your little pet name is funny to negate that statement, all your little message board disciples may think its funny, but don't take a poll you might be embarrassed..

[shannondawg]

Well I was there , and I would have voted no.

[Coach34]

So you know that is was be fired or retire? Prove it..

The conversation was relayed to me by someone who would know. There wouldnt be all this butthurt by you and rest if Stands had simply decided to retire. Stop with the bullshit- it makes you look worse than you already do.

The media was talking about numerous incidents- not just that one. You dont get labeled "most dysfunctional program in America" over one incident. Shirley you arent that naive.

The program is already in better shape from an effort and drug use standpoint. The guys are on a real strength program also now thank goodness.

I could argue all day but you, but like Coastgeezer you arent going to change your mind. Just sit back and watch Ray make the program better. Thank for your support thru the years to Miss State- hopefully you still are.

[Coach34]

C'mon CoastGeezer- we arent worse than we were in 80's when Delta State beat us. You guys are bullshit heavy tonight

And the drug issues have been from the Stands players- those are ones that have been dismissed.

[Schultzy]

I'm glad he had some success and loved every minute of it. But times change and era's change and Rick had his time. It came and went and now it's time to get behind Ray just as we supported the Stansbury hire.

[Schultzy]

C'mon CoastGeezer- we arent worse than we were in 80's when Delta State beat us. You guys are bullshit heavy tonight

And the drug issues have been from the Stands players- those are ones that have been dismissed.
I attended that game and having Gerald Glass on the DSU roster is what got Murphy the ole miss gig. What's funny about that is nobody wanted Glass because he was too short (even though he ended up with a prolonged nba career).
Nobody seems to be able to nail down Mississippi recruiting in any sport, even to this day.

And nobody in the sec would offer glass a scholarship out of high school even though everyone in the delta was screaming, this guy is good!

[shannondawg]

The conversation was relayed to me by someone who would know. There wouldnt be all this butthurt by you and rest if Stands had simply decided to retire. Stop with the bullshit- it makes you look worse than you already do.

The media was talking about numerous incidents- not just that one. You dont get labeled "most dysfunctional program in America" over one incident. Shirley you arent that naive.

The program is already in better shape from an effort and drug use standpoint. The guys are on a real strength program also now thank goodness.

I could argue all day but you, but like Coastgeezer you arent going to change your mind. Just sit back and watch Ray make the program better. Thank for your support thru the years to Miss State- hopefully you still are.

Well I got it first hand that it wasn't.

Oh, I enjoyed every minute of these losses from all the effort and drug free environment, however not as much I use to enjoy winning. And Oh, the strength program is really paying off in dividends , can't you just see how we are much stronger in the 2nd half in all these games. Refresh my memory, did Ray hire a new strength coach or just keep the one that we had with Stansbury?

[mcdawg]

And same ol tired bullshit from you guys.

A) Stands had a choice- retire or be fired. If you call that a choice- ok.

B) It's not just the fighting in the bleachers. It's also:

The Sporting News labeled us the "most dysfunctional program in America"
Gottlieb and Katz were laughing at us on ESPN about Stands
Jimmy Dykes on SEC telecasts routinely pointing out Sidney being lazy and walking up the floor during games
Players calling out the coaches on twitter
Players ignoring the coaches during time-outs
The program was ranked 2 of the last 3 seasons and neither team made the NCAA Tourney

And that's not his "legacy"- but that is why his tenure ended.

C) We would have been no better off had we let him coach another year. We still had a rampant drug problem and guys that didnt work hard.

D) If Ray doesnt work out- it wont be another 4 year rebuild- we wont be starting at Ground Zero like Stands left us. The next coach will be in much better position to get things going because he will take over a program based on effort and hard work.

E) There is no Rick Stansbury vendetta. That's comical. We just pointed out the problems with the program- which of course ended up being his undoing

F) I dont know a State fan that follows basketball that doesnt find "Stands" hilarious and fitting...



I am tired of reading all this BS, but I have to post before I leave the site.

On F above, you are wrong. Not funny. I do have one question - Does C34 or Engie care more about State or this Board? If the Board, then they will keep posting this crap to create more focus/fighting on the Board. If State, then they will focus on Rick Ray and quit bashing Rick Stansbury. Let's see what they do. Because I can tell you, the more people like them bash RS, the more it hurts State's program. Because of bashers like them or these other dolts that say "I would rather see a team hustle than our old teams that didn't hustle even though we just lost to Ga by 20 at home", it keeps driving a wedge in our fan base. People aren't attending games - fact. Keep this up and it will only get worse. I can say this for a fact - I have talked to 6 close friends (2 with their names inside our athletic buildings and 1 on the highest academic scholarship a kid can get at State) and they gave up a total of 26 of the most expensive lower level tickets (plus Bulldog Club fees) to State basketball games. I kept my 4 to be supportive, but I am giving them up next year. I CHALLENGE C34 and Engie to buy them (plus the Bulldog fees), so they can watch this team coached by a coach they claim to be Coach K/Wooden. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS! And, let's see what you care more about.

[Schultzy]

It's hard to tell since there weren't any players left on the roster.

[Coach34]

Well I got it first hand that it wasn't.

Oh, I enjoyed every minute of these losses from all the effort and drug free environment, however not as much I use to enjoy winning. And Oh, the strength program is really paying off in dividends , can't you just see how we are much stronger in the 2nd half in all these games. Refresh my memory, did Ray hire a new strength coach or just keep the one that we had with Stansbury?

Well, what I got was from one of the men in the room...Soooooo, if Stands just "retired" why all the butthurt? Why all venom at the program and Ray? What all the "Stands needed to coach another year" rhetoric? Shirley you are mad at Stands for retiring and leaving the program like he did huh?????

As far as the strength coach- Ray is actually letting the strength coach do his job for a change. The players no longer decide if they workout or not. You wont see players like Swat telling the world- "I didnt lift weights in college" like he did at that NBA combine. Embarrassing

[Schultzy]

Or by 50 to Alabama? On national tv like our previous coach did? Now that's hustling. Did they give up the tickets at that time?

Hell, Ray could pick five from Sanderson on game day and do better than that.

[shannondawg]

Well so did I , and there weren't that many in the room.. I was both happy for him and sad that he was leaving , but was not mad , the only thing that really bothered me was what happened after he left and what was hired..

Maybe they are just lifting and practicing too hard. Maybe they should leave something for the games. You get embarrassed by statements like that, why go around gloating about them?

I just bet you are strutting around like a little peacock with all the hard and drug free play they are putting out these days. That's all we hear from you now is hard work, hard play, drug free, when did the word winning leave your vocabulary?

You asked for it and got your wish, hope you are enjoying this. I really can't say I am.. But you hoping is correct , I am supporting the program. Are you?

[Coach34]

You asked for it and got your wish, hope you are enjoying this. I really can't say I am.. But you hoping is correct , I am supporting the program. Are you?

Ray's clock starts next November- We'll see what he is made of then. Stands left him a helluva hole and he is working hard to climb out.

And I am absolutely supporting the program. And Rick Ray. You should try it sometime

[shannondawg]

As you said this could go on all night, my main beef is I just don't like seeing Stansbury name dragged thru the mud as you and your bunch continue to do.

I just remember all the tremendous games we had both at the Hump and away, they were very happy times for me. Just very sorry that folk like you and Schutzy couldn't enjoy them and only remember and enjoy the memory of the losing ones, but to each his own I guess...

Anyway, I do enjoy sparring with you and if you ever do make it to a game stop by and visit.

[coastdoglover]

I said it on Sixpack and I will say it here, coach is obsessed with Stansbury. Can't figure out why but I would doubt he has gone one week since Stans left without figuring a way to bring him up and bash him. Mcdawg who said let's move on is right ,but I do know folks like Shannondawg still give big bucks to the program so they put their money where their mouth is. However, having to watch a proud program disintegrate like it is now, hurts all of us and I will wait to see how big as man coach is if this experiment fails. I hope it doesn't, but I have seen nothing to make me think it won't. Two years and not one new player really contributing is sad. That falls on Coach Ray and not anybody else.



As you said this could go on all night, my main beef is I just don't like seeing Stansbury name dragged thru the mud as you and your bunch continue to do.

I just remember all the tremendous games we had both at the Hump and away, they were very happy times for me. Just very sorry that folk like you and Schutzy couldn't enjoy them and only remember and enjoy the memory of the losing ones, but to each his own I guess...

Anyway, I do enjoy sparring with you and if you ever do make it to a game stop by and visit.

[tcdog70]

C'mon CoastGeezer- we arent worse than we were in 80's when Delta State beat us. You guys are bullshit heavy tonight

And the drug issues have been from the Stands players- those are ones that have been dismissed.

Who on this team could keep Glass from scoring fifty? All Delta St would have to do is throw up a packed in zone, then get the rebound and Glass would score. Don't kid yourself , this team would have a hard time beating any Bulldog teams of the past. When you can't score more than fifty points a game your ass will tote a loss.

[mic]

Well I got it first hand that it wasn't.

Oh, I enjoyed every minute of these losses from all the effort and drug free environment, however not as much I use to enjoy winning. And Oh, the strength program is really paying off in dividends , can't you just see how we are much stronger in the 2nd half in all these games. Refresh my memory, did Ray hire a new strength coach or just keep the one that we had with Stansbury?

I can answer the last part for ya. No we have the same strength coach. I know him. he has said that its like night and day now with RR than with Stands. Guys are actually held accountable for working out and doing what they are told. The reason Balis was such a good strength coach is that Mullen gave him full say so over the program. What Bails said the kids did.. no if's and's or but's from them or the coaching staff..
Also our strength coach actually tried to find work elsewhere back when Stands was the coach.
Do you not think FT has gotten bigger and stronger from his frosh year to this year.?? yes he has

[mic]

And the statement about walking to the Sanderson center and finding someone who can just come over and play for us is ridiculous. Yeah there may be a couple guys in there that can knock down a few shots and probably a few that could make our squad. But the transition from basically street ball to organized ball is night and day. I know I played both. Although it was only Juco and when I got to State I played in the old tin gym.
You put Tyson Cunningham in the Sanderson center , no one in there would be able to guard him..
And I bet when or if RR did have open tryouts and some of those guys did tryout they probably say just how different its is..
and before someone goes with the walk on kicker in football comparison , its not even close to being the same...

[TheDogFather]

Ray's clock starts next November- We'll see what he is made of then. Stands left him a helluva hole and he is working hard to climb out.

And I am absolutely supporting the program. And Rick Ray. You should try it sometime

Been sitting back enjoying the discussion but saying a million dollar coaches "clock" starts two years after he is hired is laughable.

[mic]

Been sitting back enjoying the discussion but saying a million dollar coaches "clock" starts two years after he is hired is laughable.

he is the lowest paid coach in the SEC..

[mic]

I thought maybe the article by and ex SEC player may stop all this silly 1st grade BS about our bball program. Someone who may actually know a few things about what its like in college sports. I see it still hasn't
RR got left a dumpster fire. If some of you don't want to believe that then so be it. He has been here all of about 18 months. He is not playing with with a full deck. He is going to be here another 2 years. If he cant get it done in that time frame then he should and probably will be gone..
We have some pieces in place like BH said. We have an SEC point guard, a solid 4, and solid 3. We need a shooter , a big , and some depth.
Some of you are going to bitch about RR until he is gone even if he wins 20+ games next few years. That's your opinion. But I swear I think some of you would rather we lose games just so you could bitch and complain and say told ya so than actually want us to win.. If that's the case keep all this BS you post to yourself we are all tired of reading it...

[Intramural All-American]

Can we all not just agree that it was time for Stans to go but thank him for his time at State? He did a lot for State but he had plateaued. There's no reason to continually bash him (myself included). We made a new hire, and Ray is now our coach. Whether he can succeed or not, he needs support. If he doesn't succeed, we will try again. But it is annoying as hell to have a new argument over the same damn thing after every single game. Neither side of the argument is budging. It's been going on for two years now. At some point you just have to agree to disagree and move on. It's extremely ridiculous for anyone to hope certain outcomes happen either way so that one side can say "I told you so."

[Schultzy]

As you said this could go on all night, my main beef is I just don't like seeing Stansbury name dragged thru the mud as you and your bunch continue to do.

I just remember all the tremendous games we had both at the Hump and away, they were very happy times for me. Just very sorry that folk like you and Schutzy couldn't enjoy them and only remember and enjoy the memory of the losing ones, but to each his own I guess...

Anyway, I do enjoy sparring with you and if you ever do make it to a game stop by and visit.
We enjoyed his successful years as well and have acknowledged them. The point is that it's still way too early to be getting on Ray's case. It's too early to bash Ray precisely because of how bad of shape the previous coach left the program. It's not bashing Stansbury to say that, it's just an undeniable fact. One can come to this realization and still appreciate Stansbury's good years fondly.

But don't tell us you're embarrassed by our new coach when he is the one working his ass off trying to clean up the mess somebody else left behind. That's infuriating as hell to me. One and a half years is a very short period of time for a coach taking over under these circumstances.

When I make reference to Stansbury's bad losses, like the 50 point loss to Alabama, it's to point out how dumb it is to be embarrassed by a twenty point loss during a rebuilding period. Not to just make some ad-hominem attack on Rick Stansbury. It's one game. It happens.

[drunkernhelldawg]

I can answer the last part for ya. No we have the same strength coach. I know him. he has said that its like night and day now with RR than with Stands. Guys are actually held accountable for working out and doing what they are told. The reason Balis was such a good strength coach is that Mullen gave him full say so over the program. What Bails said the kids did.. no if's and's or but's from them or the coaching staff..
Also our strength coach actually tried to find work elsewhere back when Stands was the coach.
Do you not think FT has gotten bigger and stronger from his frosh year to this year.?? yes he has

This is a pretty good example of the constant dragging of Stans' name through the mud. I too completely support Rick Ray and the MSU basketball team. I have never and will never find myself pulling against my team. But it's hard to have bullshit smeared on you and not react. So if you want more support for OUR team, stop blaming the winningest coach in MSU history for every little thing.
For example, this strength program is a good example. Everybody who's had a job knows that it's easy to set up a system of accountability. The challenge is sticking with it through thick and thin. We'll see how Coach Ray does with that; I am pulling for him.

[mic]

This is a pretty good example of the constant dragging of Stans' name through the mud. I too completely support Rick Ray and the MSU basketball team. I have never and will never find myself pulling against my team. But it's hard to have bullshit smeared on you and not react. So if you want more support for OUR team, stop blaming the winningest coach in MSU history for every little thing.
For example, this strength program is a good example. Everybody who's had a job knows that it's easy to set up a system of accountability. The challenge is sticking with it through thick and thin. We'll see how Coach Ray does with that; I am pulling for him.

Im not just saying stuff.. That is exactly what our strength coach said.. believe it if you want too.

[drunkernhelldawg]

Im not just saying stuff.. That is exactly what our strength coach said.. believe it if you want too.

What the hell is he spreading rumors to you for? Is he your lover or something? Regardless, SS may need to look into this kind of bullshit. Also, I did not question that he said it; I just said that it is less significant that you are implying that it is.

[Coach34]

What the hell is he spreading rumors to you for? Is he your lover or something? Regardless, SS may need to look into this kind of bullshit. Also, I did not question that he said it; I just said that it is less significant that you are implying that it is.

It's not bullshit. It's widely known. I know the strength coach as well.

[drunkernhelldawg]

It's not bullshit. It's widely known. I know the strength coach as well.

I'm not questioning that he said or says this. I'm saying that I feel he shouldn't be casually denigrating public figures in the MSU family. I also said that the true test of this and other issues is down the road because, as Paul Thorn sings, "Everybody looks good at the starting line."

[mic]

What the hell is he spreading rumors to you for? Is he your lover or something? Regardless, SS may need to look into this kind of bullshit. Also, I did not question that he said it; I just said that it is less significant that you are implying that it is.

Is he my lover.??? see its stupid shit like this that makes some of fans the stupidest around.. Someone asked a question about the strength and conditioning coach for basketball. I posted what he said. And yeah a few years ago I know for a fact he inquired about a job elsewhere and to be even more specific it was with Univ. of Utah..
so next you try and be 'cute' and or 'funny" know what the F your talking about..

[drunkernhelldawg]

Is he my lover.??? see its stupid shit like this that makes some of fans the stupidest around.. Someone asked a question about the strength and conditioning coach for basketball. I posted what he said. And yeah a few years ago I know for a fact he inquired about a job elsewhere and to be even more specific it was with Univ. of Utah..
so next you try and be 'cute' and or 'funny" know what the F your talking about..

I apologize for my inappropriate question. But I think this coach needs to grow up some if he thinks it's okay to go around bitching about his bosses who are public figures.

[mic]

I apologize for my inappropriate question. But I think this coach needs to grow up some if he thinks it's okay to go around bitching about his bosses who are public figures.

He inquired about another job few years back.. Im sure a lot of coaches inquire about other jobs.
He just stated that he liked RR better than he did Stands.. Not my words but his..

[TheDogFather]

he is the lowest paid coach in the SEC..

OK. Thanks for the tidbit. Now back to my statement.

[shannondawg]

Is he my lover.??? see its stupid shit like this that makes some of fans the stupidest around.. Someone asked a question about the strength and conditioning coach for basketball. I posted what he said. And yeah a few years ago I know for a fact he inquired about a job elsewhere and to be even more specific it was with Univ. of Utah..
so next you try and be 'cute' and or 'funny" know what the F your talking about..

I knew durn well who the strength coach was, was just making a point. He and his wife both wanted to go, he had his retirement and was looking to relocate. He sure adds a lot to the bench now..

[Coach34]

Yes he does

[shannondawg]

Yes he does

Ray wanting an entourage? Doesn't seem to travel with any boosters as other coaches usually do.

[Coach34]

Why would boosters need to travel?

[Coach34]

I bet you're pumped about Thursday though....ya'll been helping him practice interviewing?

[mic]

I bet you're pumped about Thursday though....ya'll been helping him practice interviewing?

Bet that was a shocking read...

[mic]

Same tired old arguments, how many times has "fighting in the stands" been brought up in the past year. Two guys fighting is not that unusual, just getting caught on tv was extremely unlucky for our school, but to have that as Rick Stansbury's legacy is criminal.

Rick has a choice and took retirement. But we would have all been better off if he had stayed one more year, the tumor was gone, he would have retained a couple of more recruits and probably kept Hood, Then if the ship was not righted, we would have been in a much better position to hire a coach with more experience,.

It might not matter to you young guys , but we (and in fairness to him and to ourselves we have to)give Ray two more years and the program has not progressed, are we faced with another four years of building the program then another and another and so on.

Happy? How could anybody be with this situation, other than the ones that have a Rick Stansbury vendetta. And Coach34 your cute name for him may be funny to you as you keep insisting, but I assure you its not to a great majority.

Outside of the Pacers at the Palace in Auburn Hills.. I have never seen a fight like that in college or pro basketball. And I have NEVER witnessed team mates fighting like that while watching a game. So yes '2 guys fighting like that in that situation is VERY UNCOMMON. If Coach Stands "could" have gotten rid of the cancer after the fight he MAY have kept his job. But he couldn't cut ties with Sid. Too much invested in him. Sid held the program hostage..
And if in four years we do have to replace RR and I will be the first to say if we aren't then he probably has to go, but the next coach wont have near the fire dumpster that was left. and it wont even be close...
RR is going to fail here because of 2 reasons..
1.) is on him. If he cant recruit and get the guys here.
2.) is on the alumni and big boys that will make it impossible for him to succeed because of lack of support or whatever agenda they may have against him.

[Coach34]

Bet that was a shocking read...

They like to think they know more than I do- I like to remind them they dont

[biggun]

If he is supposedly such a great teacher of the game and developer of talent, why is our shooting percentage this year sooo bad? Why has Gavin Ware and Fred Thomas' play gotten worse?

Honestly the only 2 players on our team who have improved are Sword (who still can't shoot a lick) and Bloodman (hardest playing kid on our team gets the most out of what he has).

I have been giving Ray a chance but after last night there isn't much to say. We could very likely have a 12 game losing streak going into the South Carolina home game the last sat of the regular season.

Im not saying he needs to go, just wondering when and how we will ever turn the corner, especially since we dont have any top 4 star type recruits coming in next year.

Pretty obvious we are no longer paying players like we did under Stan's which actually points out just how incompetent and dissapointing Stan's reign became the last 4-5 years when he was given free reign to buy "the best" yet he lands for example "Physco Sidney", no defense "Stick" Johnson, Should have been walk on's Stewart and Benock, and does NOTHING to develop or win with actual talents who gave a damn like Bost, Moultrie, and Varnado!!!!! He actually ran off Phil Turner for I guess Stewart and lost future Big East Player of the Year and 1st team All American Ben Hansbrough to transfer AND THOUGHT ROMERO OSBY COULD NOT PLAY D1 BASKETBALL!!!!!!! What an idiot!!! Had he gone mad?????

Butt Cut Cunningham and Gutless Grant did little to nothing to help him while he was in the midst of his freefall but the mere fact that Rick thought he walked on water and would only be surrounded by yes men despite his horrendous NCAA track Record and obvious underachieving despite throwing money at recruits like it grew on trees underscored his obvious loss of recognizing his own reality in terms of basketball success or better yet failure.

Pretty Much, Stan's was a victim of his shocking 2000 to 2007 success, from Kentucky hillbilly bagman to reigning SEC tourney champs and a viable yearly threat to Kentucky and Florida from 2000 to 2007. Once a man of the people who openly embraced the common folk of MSU and would often drive to Jackson a couple of nights a week solely to meet with small pockets of MSU basketball fans to encourage season ticket buying, attendance, and "donations", but those visits all came to a screeching halt after he grabbed his 2nd consecutive NCAA tourney bid in 2002 or 2003, I forget, and then everything changed, not only his program, but also Rick himself.

[TheDogFather]

Pretty obvious we are no longer paying players like we did under Stan's which actually points out just how incompetent and dissapointing Stan's reign became the last 4-5 years when he was given free reign to buy "the best" yet he lands for example "Physco Sidney", no defense "Stick" Johnson, Should have been walk on's Stewart and Benock, and does NOTHING to develop or win with actual talents who gave a damn like Bost, Moultrie, and Varnado!!!!! He actually ran off Phil Turner for I guess Stewart and lost future Big East Player of the Year and 1st team All American Ben Hansbrough to transfer AND THOUGHT ROMERO OSBY COULD NOT PLAY D1 BASKETBALL!!!!!!! What an idiot!!! Had he gone mad?????

Butt Cut Cunningham and Gutless Grant did little to nothing to help him while he was in the midst of his freefall but the mere fact that Rick thought he walked on water and would only be surrounded by yes men despite his horrendous NCAA track Record and obvious underachieving despite throwing money at recruits like it grew on trees underscored his obvious loss of recognizing his own reality in terms of basketball success or better yet failure.

Pretty Much, Stan's was a victim of his shocking 2000 to 2007 success, from Kentucky hillbilly bagman to reigning SEC tourney champs and a viable yearly threat to Kentucky and Florida from 2000 to 2007. Once a man of the people who openly embraced the common folk of MSU and would often drive to Jackson a couple of nights a week solely to meet with small pockets of MSU basketball fans to encourage season ticket buying, attendance, and "donations", but those visits all came to a screeching halt after he grabbed his 2nd consecutive NCAA tourney bid in 2002 or 2003, I forget, and then everything changed, not only his program, but also Rick himself.

I loosely count 27 personal insults at Rick Stansbury in this post. Somebody buy this boy a Happy Meal.

[thedawg]

We can do all this message board bitching we want to... Ray is going to get year three for sure as he should.... He will probably almost certainly get year four too because when he adds five more players to the then experienced nucleus we will improve next year... Book it.... So let's support him and our guys... If in two years we are still sucking he will have no excuses and the bitching will be warranted... I would bet alot of money he will have us in the NIT next year... My question is on his ceiling and whether or not he can make us a sweet sixteenish team... That comes down to recruiting

[Dawg61]

I bet you're pumped about Thursday though....ya'll been helping him practice interviewing?

What happens Thursday? Stans interviewing at Auburn?

[mic]

We can do all this message board bitching we want to... Ray is going to get year three for sure as he should.... He will probably almost certainly get year four too because when he adds five more players to the then experienced nucleus we will improve next year... Book it.... So let's support him and our guys... If in two years we are still sucking he will have no excuses and the bitching will be warranted... I would bet alot of money he will have us in the NIT next year... My question is on his ceiling and whether or not he can make us a sweet sixteenish team... That comes down to recruiting

THANK YOU..... See this guy gets .. Support MSU basketball..

[drunkernhelldawg]

We can do all this message board bitching we want to... Ray is going to get year three for sure as he should.... He will probably almost certainly get year four too because when he adds five more players to the then experienced nucleus we will improve next year... Book it.... So let's support him and our guys... If in two years we are still sucking he will have no excuses and the bitching will be warranted... I would bet alot of money he will have us in the NIT next year... My question is on his ceiling and whether or not he can make us a sweet sixteenish team... That comes down to recruiting

Great post. Jam-packed quick read.